Author Topic: U2's New Album: â??In The Home Straightâ??  (Read 13768 times)

Fico

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Re: U2's New Album: â??In The Home Straightâ??
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2003, 04:50:00 pm »
Furthermore mr. charity..
 
 "[Americans] are regularly told by politicians and the media, that America is the world's most generous nation. This is one of the most conventional pieces of 'knowledgable ignorance'. According to the OECD, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, the US gave between $6 and $15 billion in foreign aid in the period between 1995 and 1999. In absolute terms, Japan gives more than the US, between $9 and $15 billion in the same period. But the absolute figures are less significant than the proportion of gross domestic product (GDP, or national wealth) that a country devotes to foreign aid. On that league table, the US ranks twenty-second of the 22 most developed nations. As former President Jimmy Carter commented: 'We are the stingiest nation of all'. Denmark is top of the table, giving 1.01% of GDP, while the US manages just 0.1%. The United Nations has long established the target of 0.7% GDP for development assistance, although only four countries actually achieve this: Denmark, 1.01%; Norway, 0.91%; the Netherlands, 0.79%; Sweden, 0.7%. Apart from being the least generous nation, the US is highly selective in who receives its aid. Over 50% of its aid budget is spent on middle-income countries in the Middle East, with Israel being the recipient of the largest single share."

ggw

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Re: U2's New Album: â??In The Home Straightâ??
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2003, 04:58:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Fico:
  when was the last time you visited??
SAFETY AND SECURITY: American citizens should review their security practices and maintain a low profile. Protests, demonstrations, and general strikes occur periodically. These disturbances have the potential to turn violent, with participants rioting and erecting roadblocks. In the past, police have used deadly force in response to violent protests. Although these events are not targeted at foreigners, it is advisable to exercise caution when traveling throughout the country. In urban areas, travel should be conducted on main routes whenever possible. Street crowds should be avoided.
 
 CRIME: Petty street crime involving U.S. tourists does occur, and normal precautions should be taken. Visitors walking the streets should always be aware of their surroundings to avoid becoming victims of crime. Valuables left unattended in parked automobiles, on beaches and in other public places are vulnerable to theft. Cellular telephones should be carried in a pocket, rather than on a belt or in a purse. One increasingly common method of street robbery is for a person or persons on a moped (often coasting with the engine turned off so as not to draw attention) to approach a pedestrian, grab the cell phone, purse or backpack, and then speed away.
 
 Passengers in private taxis (known locally as "carros publicos") are frequently the victims of pickpocketing. In some instances, the taxi drivers themselves have been known to rob riders. At least one American passenger on a "motoconcho" (motorcycle taxi) has been robbed by the driver. Visitors to the Dominican Republic are strongly advised to take only hotel taxis or taxis operated by services whose cabs are ordered in advance by phone and can subsequently be identified and tracked.
 
 Burglaries of private residences have increased, as have crimes of violence. Some incidents of violent crime have involved foreign residents and tourists, including U.S. citizens.
 
 Visitors should limit their use of personal credit cards due to credit card fraud and may wish to consider coordinating their trip with their credit card company so that only hotel bills or other specified expenses may be charged. Credit cards should never leave the sight of the cardholder, in order to prevent the card's information from being copied for illegal use. It is advisable to pay close attention to credit card bills following a trip to the Dominican Republic.
 
 Automated Teller Machines (ATM's) are present throughout Santo Domingo and other major cities. However, as with credit cards, the use of ATM's should be minimized as a means of avoiding theft or misuse. One local scheme involves sticking photographic film or pieces of paper in the card feeder of the ATM so that an inserted card becomes jammed. Once the card owner has concluded the card is irretrievable, the thieves extract both the jamming material and the card, which they then use.
 
 MEDICAL FACILITIES: Medical care is limited, especially outside Santo Domingo, and the quality of care varies widely among facilities. There is an emergency 911 service within Santo Domingo, but its reliability is questionable. Outside the capital, emergency services range from extremely limited to nonexistent. Blood supplies at both public and private hospitals are often limited and not all facilities have blood on hand even for emergencies. Many medical facilities throughout the country do not have staff members who speak or understand English. A private nationwide ambulance service, "Movi-med," operates in Santo Domingo, Santiago, Puerto Plata and La Romana; its telephone number is 532-0000 in Santo Domingo and 1-200-0911 outside Santo Domingo. "Movi-med" expects full payment at the time of transport.

Fico

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Re: U2's New Album: â??In The Home Straightâ??
« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2003, 05:08:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by ggw™:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Fico:
  when was the last time you visited??
SAFETY AND SECURITY: American citizens should review their security practices and maintain a low profile. Protests, demonstrations, and general strikes occur periodically. These disturbances have the potential to turn violent, with participants rioting and erecting roadblocks. In the past, police have used deadly force in response to violent protests. Although these events are not targeted at foreigners, it is advisable to exercise caution when traveling throughout the country. In urban areas, travel should be conducted on main routes whenever possible. Street crowds should be avoided.
 
 CRIME: Petty street crime involving U.S. tourists does occur, and normal precautions should be taken. Visitors walking the streets should always be aware of their surroundings to avoid becoming victims of crime. Valuables left unattended in parked automobiles, on beaches and in other public places are vulnerable to theft. Cellular telephones should be carried in a pocket, rather than on a belt or in a purse. One increasingly common method of street robbery is for a person or persons on a moped (often coasting with the engine turned off so as not to draw attention) to approach a pedestrian, grab the cell phone, purse or backpack, and then speed away.
 
 Passengers in private taxis (known locally as "carros publicos") are frequently the victims of pickpocketing. In some instances, the taxi drivers themselves have been known to rob riders. At least one American passenger on a "motoconcho" (motorcycle taxi) has been robbed by the driver. Visitors to the Dominican Republic are strongly advised to take only hotel taxis or taxis operated by services whose cabs are ordered in advance by phone and can subsequently be identified and tracked.
 
 Burglaries of private residences have increased, as have crimes of violence. Some incidents of violent crime have involved foreign residents and tourists, including U.S. citizens.
 
 Visitors should limit their use of personal credit cards due to credit card fraud and may wish to consider coordinating their trip with their credit card company so that only hotel bills or other specified expenses may be charged. Credit cards should never leave the sight of the cardholder, in order to prevent the card's information from being copied for illegal use. It is advisable to pay close attention to credit card bills following a trip to the Dominican Republic.
 
 Automated Teller Machines (ATM's) are present throughout Santo Domingo and other major cities. However, as with credit cards, the use of ATM's should be minimized as a means of avoiding theft or misuse. One local scheme involves sticking photographic film or pieces of paper in the card feeder of the ATM so that an inserted card becomes jammed. Once the card owner has concluded the card is irretrievable, the thieves extract both the jamming material and the card, which they then use.
 
 MEDICAL FACILITIES: Medical care is limited, especially outside Santo Domingo, and the quality of care varies widely among facilities. There is an emergency 911 service within Santo Domingo, but its reliability is questionable. Outside the capital, emergency services range from extremely limited to nonexistent. Blood supplies at both public and private hospitals are often limited and not all facilities have blood on hand even for emergencies. Many medical facilities throughout the country do not have staff members who speak or understand English. A private nationwide ambulance service, "Movi-med," operates in Santo Domingo, Santiago, Puerto Plata and La Romana; its telephone number is 532-0000 in Santo Domingo and 1-200-0911 outside Santo Domingo. "Movi-med" expects full payment at the time of transport. [/b]
That doesn't surprise me, it's part of the fear propaganda... yet in the last 30 years we've seen nothing close to the LA Riots, school shootings, people losing the plot at their jobs and shooting anyone in site, we haven't seen a bombing of a government building by a national or non-national, crime rates and murder rates are lower than 9/10 of US cities of the same size...we've never seen demonstrations such as those in Seattle or Washington... so read into that what you will, you couldn't counter the fact that the US is not the giving nation that you portrayed in your post and and had to switch the angle of the conversation... and you still lost!!!

ggw

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Re: U2's New Album: â??In The Home Straightâ??
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2003, 05:12:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Fico:
 and for that matter, I wonder when was the last time the US gave at least a combined amount equivalent to 1% of it's GDP to the countries it takes so much from??
The Dominican Republic had a total GDP (in USD at 1990 prices) of $44.2 billion between 1980 and 1992.  Over that period they received $840 million in aid from the U.S.
 
 $840mn/$44.2bn = 1.9% of Dominican GDP.
 
 What exactly do we "take" from the Dominican Republic?  Other than 65% of its exports?

mustourdman

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Re: U2's New Album: â??In The Home Straightâ??
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2003, 05:16:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Fico:
  Furthermore mr. charity..
 
 "As former President Jimmy Carter commented: 'We are the stingiest nation of all'.  
Although I think the US government should have a higher foreign aid budget, these statistics are misleading. First, they do not take into acount private citizen donations to charities. You can criticize the earnestness of giving to religious charities (which probably make up a sizable percentage of that number) for international aid, but I believe Americans are routinely in the top 3 developed countries in that regard. It makes sense -- less money paid in taxes, more money to give to chairities. Yeah, I think just having the govt take it out is more responsible and comprehensive, but we give $$$ all the same.
 
 Second, these statistics do not take into account US govt contracts with U.S.-based int'l development companies. Yeah, I'd rather see the government just help Ethiopia directly instead of padding some American contractor's overhead along the way, but sooner or later, some of those contract dollars make it overseas for schools, roads, etc.
 
 So, yes, the U.S. govt can be stingy in direct foreign aid, but as a whole, Americans are no stingier than the rest of the world -- you can say our aid isn't given't as efficiently or as altruistically as Sweden's, but even per capita we're on par with Europe in terms of dollars given.
 
 And more on topic, did anyone else see that U2 spent $46,000 this month bankrolling a struggling charity to keep it afloat another month?

ggw

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Re: U2's New Album: â??In The Home Straightâ??
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2003, 05:22:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Fico:
 ...we've never seen demonstrations such as those in Seattle or Washington...
Well, this would explain how you keep the demonstrations under control:
 
 Amnesty International is deeply concerned at reports that police in the Dominican Republic raided the office of a local trade union yesterday, 6 August, and opened fire on those inside in order to prevent them from carrying out a protest scheduled for later that afternoon in the capital, Santo Domingo.
 
 http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR270052003?open&of=ENG-DOM

vansmack

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Re: U2's New Album: â??In The Home Straightâ??
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2003, 06:13:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by mustourdman:
   they do not take into acount private citizen donations to charities. You can criticize the earnestness of giving to religious charities (which probably make up a sizable percentage of that number) for international aid, but I believe Americans are routinely in the top 3 developed countries in that regard. It makes sense -- less money paid in taxes, more money to give to chairities. Yeah, I think just having the govt take it out is more responsible and comprehensive, but we give $$$ all the same.
 
 
While I agree with your points, I wouldn't use the US Citizen as your example.  Because a Citizen is not granted tax breaks for international donations, most US Citizens only donate to US charities and a small portion of that money is transferred internationally.
 
 What I would focus on US Foundations and Grantmaking Charities which give grant about $2.4 Billion last year to international charities, far more than any other nation or multi-lateral organization including the EU.
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vansmack

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Re: U2's New Album: â??In The Home Straightâ??
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2003, 06:22:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by mustourdman:
  And more on topic, did anyone else see that U2 spent $46,000 this month bankrolling a struggling charity to keep it afloat another month?
I missed that, but I did learn today that they didn't do it for tax reasons.  Silly me.
 
 Where did you read that?
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brennser

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helicon1

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Re: U2's New Album: â??In The Home Straightâ??
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2003, 09:36:00 pm »
Take it for what it's worth, but a friend asked me to post this response:
 -----------------------------------
 Of course, I will defend U2 against such comments.
 
 First of all, U2 isn’t the band one should single out if the case of selling-out is to be made.  Up through the Elevation Tour, U2 did not accept corporate sponsorships for their tours.  They paid for the tours with their own money, a fact which, “not unexpectedly…was missing from the pages of Rolling Stone or VH-1 broadcasts.”  They actually lost money on their Zoo-TV world tour, and of course on the PopMart tour.  In fact, this inability to “sell-out” as the writer contends nearly split the band up, because the members who wanted to spend everything on lavish stages (Bono and Edge) were pressuring the two members who didn’t want to spend (Larry and Adam) to give them some of their loot, which was split evenly between all members and Paul McGuiness, their manager of 25 years.  Second, making millions selling records and promoting the restoration of the economies in Africa go hand-in-hand.  If U2 didn’t make the business decisions they have for the last 20 years, if Paul McGuiness wasn’t the shark he is, chances are U2 would have broken up in 1982 and you’d never have heard of them.  U2 isn’t even the richest of the rockers/rappers, but they are the only ones who are using their notoriety to promote change and do good things.  It is unheard of that any musician or performer would be taking the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury on a guided tour of world of Africa, yet it was seemingly routine for Bono.  Don’t single-out Best Buy as the Goliath of the record sellers.  Do you want to get ripped-off by your “screwed-over” independent record retailers who are going to charge $30 for the same DVD?  The popularity of the shared file phenomenon is a direct effect of high CD/DVD prices.  No one should have to pay for a product that is marked up 200 times from its production cost, so screw your beloved Tower Records of the World.  There’s a reason it’s called “Best Buy,” and U2 realizes this.  They’re just being sympathetic to their fans.  Finally, and who is Henry Rollins?  :)
 
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by BLANK:
  U2 is really a bad 80s band that never should have become as popular as they did.  But they were easy to market, after all they made poppy little diddies that sent college kids into a tizzy and gave pseudo-intellectuals a new hero to rave about.  Quite frankly, Henry Rollins was dead-on when he said, "The Clash is what U2 really wanted to be."  They were a pseudo-political band who ultimately gave in to smart business sense.
 
  Case in point: U2, the supposed band of integrity and protest, recently decided to screw over independent record retailers, by signing an exclusive contract with the Best Buy, the 1,900-store consumer electronics and appliance monolith.  According to the terms of the agreement, Best Buy would have a two-week exclusive to sell a brand new U2 live DVD for $18 and also get the rights to sell an out-of-print U2 Greatest Hits Album.  In exchange Best Buy will help to promote a broadcast of the concert on DirectTV's Freeview Event series for paying customers and spend up to $10 million promoting U2 through transit bus and newspaper advertising.
 
  So while Bono was all over CNN talking about helping to restore the economies in Africa, he and his mates had already screwed thousands of small music retailers who would lose revenue and customers to a large chain that is expected to rack up $20 billion in 2002.   In 2000, Best Buy bought out the Musicland Chain, which runs Sam Goody here in the States, and more recently bought the 83-store Future Shop chain in Canada.  For all intents and purposes, they are quickly becoming the Starbucks of the consumer electronics world - a store in every town, sometimes even two or three if necessary.  
 
  To make matters worse, Best Buy expanded in the music distribution business by creating Redline Entertainment, a wholly-owned subsidiary that acts like any other record label.  One catch, by silently owning Redline, other chains and music retailers are padding Best Buy's pockets by selling CD's from Redline's artists.   To quote Best Buy's CEO from a brief article in Forbes (about the only publication to cover the story): "Consumers are telling us they want to depend increasingly on one guy."  The Babbitizing of America continues…
 
  Not unexpectedly, this little bit of news was missing from the pages of Rolling Stone or VH-1 broadcasts.  And meanwhile, the fabulous images from the photo-op of Bono and US Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill travelling to Africa still flood the airwaves.
 
  Hmm…why isn't that surprising.

Jaguär

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Re: U2's New Album: â??In The Home Straightâ??
« Reply #55 on: October 22, 2003, 05:41:00 am »
Don't worry Smackie, you're still my hero.
 
 Mankie, you're a Knight in Shining Armour.
 
 Sonic, since you've decided to crown me Queen, and thank you for that btw, I'll take this opportunity to appoint you and Mustourdman the positions of Court Jesters. Unlike Lily and some of the others, you both seem to assume that because some of us don't like U2, that we aren't entitled to an opinion or to our own personal taste because it doesn't align with your's. You both come off as if we have insulted you personally, as you both have done to us because we don't agree with your taste in music. If you had read my posts properly, you'll see that not once did I ever even hint at an insult to those who like U2. As far as the music is concerned, I only stated why I've never liked them. Ever. Has nothing to do with "hipness". My dislike goes all the way back to the early 80s when they first started being heard in this neck of the woods. I'm not the type to lie about liking or not liking certain music just because some people take it as a personal offense because my taste doesn't agree with their's. If you can't deal with that, then, by all means, hate me for it. That's your right. It's kind of weird realizing that my opinion of some band would have that much power over a few other people.

mustourdman

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Re: U2's New Album: â??In The Home Straightâ??
« Reply #56 on: October 22, 2003, 11:25:00 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Jaguär:
  Don't worry Smackie, you're still my hero.
 It's kind of weird realizing that my opinion of some band would have that much power over a few other people.
Um... I'll be the court jester if I get to wear the cool hat, but I think thin skin is in the eye of the beholder.
 
 I believe I said go ahead and dislike U2 all you want -- it just bothered me that the attitude of *a different poster* came across as not just offering his/her opinion, but disrespecting vast expert and popular opinions as well. Nothing illegal with not liking a certain band -- but I do think it's a bit trite when someone sounds off like his/her opinion is sooooo much more informed than legions of music fans, musicians, and music critics.
 
 For example, I dislike Creed. I would hate their music no matter what, but I feel my opinion is bolsetered by the fact that people who listen to as diverse a set of music as I do hate them, critics hate them, and the only musicians whoever point to Creed as influences are, well, Creed cover bands.
 
 On the other hand, I'm not a big fan of Sonic Youth. Their music's just never grabbed me I guess, but I *recognize* that most of the people whose opinions I respect (friends, critics, favorite musicians) do like them, so I believe that Sonic Youth is a legitimately good band whose music I don't care for too much.
 
 ... and as far as the whole tax thing -- I don't think *any of us* came out of that looking wholly informed.

vansmack

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Re: U2's New Album: â??In The Home Straightâ??
« Reply #57 on: October 22, 2003, 12:06:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Jaguär:
  Don't worry Smackie, you're still my hero.
 
 Mankie, you're a Knight in Shining Armour.
 
 
Cheers, love, and apologies again.  First drink's on me if you can make it in to DC Nov. 14 when I visit.
 
 I've sent a note to the authors of the int'l tax manual I was reading to add the omitted Section 195 exemption to the list of exemptions and to cite Jag when doing so.  Perhaps you will get global recognition for your superiority.
 
 And for Mankie, he was just sucking up and taking the opportunity to point out my fallibility for his own personal self-assurance.  I've decided not to share my username and password to uefa.com so he cannot watch the replay of the Rangers-United match and will therefore forced to read about it.  Plus I already owe him a drink so there's no sense in offering him one for his Knighthood.  Boy that list is getting long....
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mankie

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Re: U2's New Album: â??In The Home Straightâ??
« Reply #58 on: October 22, 2003, 12:07:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by mustourdman:
 
Quote
-- it just bothered me that the attitude of *a different poster* came across as not just offering his/her opinion, but disrespecting vast expert and popular opinions as well. Nothing illegal with not liking a certain band -- but I do think it's a bit trite when someone sounds off like his/her opinion is sooooo much more informed than legions of music fans, musicians, and music critics.
 
 [/b]
Is Rhett back on the board?

vansmack

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Re: U2's New Album: â??In The Home Straightâ??
« Reply #59 on: October 22, 2003, 12:08:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by mankie:
 
Quote
Is Rhett back on the board? [/b]
I thought the same thing and decided to let it go.  But my knight to the rescue...
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