Post Show Banter >>>>

[GetThee2aHatcheryıll|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|llıl]

I agree.  It was fairly sketchy down there and that Brutalist architecture that was falling apart made it look like a post-apocalyptic
Just not the kind of place that would make the top 20 to take a guest to (I know that's not the barometer)

There was the cactus cantina and that was kind of it.  The seafood market was nice, but how much time can one spend in a fish market (I am very glad they saved that)

The restaurants sucked (seafood buffet that I foolishly tried more than once and got sick more than once)
and it seems there was a shooting every few months at Zanizabar
When the Arena Stage got rebuilt, that definitely helped, but that was never my scene
they also used to have big tennis matches there too

Nats Park I think really helped (I know not right there, but just above it, so made developers want to come in)

We had an ultimate frisbee team that used to have games on G and 4th sometimes...and no one had any interest in hanging out there after a game


in the late 90s I'd considered getting a place down there as I loved that it was on the waterfront, but after walking around didn't really feel like it had a vibe that was at all conducive to 20 year old hatch (also as NKTOB mentioned, there were a bunch of odd co-ops or condos with insane monthly fees)

In retrospect had I bought a townhouse there, probably would be sitting pretty now, but I'm sure my whole life would be different too

also, there is no wharf configuration that the anti-gentrification crowd would be happy with, so that's just a silly argument to have

[Vas Deferens]

if you didn't know, all their backing tracks are in sequence, which is why the songs are the same order each night....

someone requested a song that is not on the list and they couldn't do it.  The response was, "it's been awhile since we played that..."

Beach Fossils Sat night. First time seeing them live as I've just gotten into them after hearing the wonderful 'Bunny'. I've been checking setlist.fm so I was aware of what they were going to play - they don't switch it up at all. Their songs are short and catchy, with great harmonies, so I was expecting a rather tame evening. But it was a loud, wild 65 minute set, which is typical for them, which made them perfect for an early show. And moshing! That's still a thing?   

[Space Freely]

I agree.  It was fairly sketchy down there and that Brutalist architecture that was falling apart made it look like a post-apocalyptic
Just not the kind of place that would make the top 20 to take a guest to (I know that's not the barometer)

There was the cactus cantina and that was kind of it.  The seafood market was nice, but how much time can one spend in a fish market (I am very glad they saved that)

The restaurants sucked (seafood buffet that I foolishly tried more than once and got sick more than once)
and it seems there was a shooting every few months at Zanizabar
When the Arena Stage got rebuilt, that definitely helped, but that was never my scene
they also used to have big tennis matches there too

Nats Park I think really helped (I know not right there, but just above it, so made developers want to come in)

We had an ultimate frisbee team that used to have games on G and 4th sometimes...and no one had any interest in hanging out there after a game


in the late 90s I'd considered getting a place down there as I loved that it was on the waterfront, but after walking around didn't really feel like it had a vibe that was at all conducive to 20 year old hatch (also as NKTOB mentioned, there were a bunch of odd co-ops or condos with insane monthly fees)

In retrospect had I bought a townhouse there, probably would be sitting pretty now, but I'm sure my whole life would be different too

also, there is no wharf configuration that the anti-gentrification crowd would be happy with, so that's just a silly argument to have

I lived in Baltimore (Charles Village) for three years in the 90's and then in the DMV from 1997 until present (including in Adams Morgan from 1998-2004) and literally never set foot in the Waterfront until they made it into the Wharf. I guess I have no idea what I missed.

[gavroche]

I agree.  It was fairly sketchy down there and that Brutalist architecture that was falling apart made it look like a post-apocalyptic
Just not the kind of place that would make the top 20 to take a guest to (I know that's not the barometer)

There was the cactus cantina and that was kind of it.  The seafood market was nice, but how much time can one spend in a fish market (I am very glad they saved that)

The restaurants sucked (seafood buffet that I foolishly tried more than once and got sick more than once)
and it seems there was a shooting every few months at Zanizabar
When the Arena Stage got rebuilt, that definitely helped, but that was never my scene
they also used to have big tennis matches there too

Nats Park I think really helped (I know not right there, but just above it, so made developers want to come in)

We had an ultimate frisbee team that used to have games on G and 4th sometimes...and no one had any interest in hanging out there after a game


in the late 90s I'd considered getting a place down there as I loved that it was on the waterfront, but after walking around didn't really feel like it had a vibe that was at all conducive to 20 year old hatch (also as NKTOB mentioned, there were a bunch of odd co-ops or condos with insane monthly fees)

In retrospect had I bought a townhouse there, probably would be sitting pretty now, but I'm sure my whole life would be different too

also, there is no wharf configuration that the anti-gentrification crowd would be happy with, so that's just a silly argument to have

The Wharf itself is/was whatever.  I have a soft spot for the pier, but beyond that it was nothing special. 

It's the neighborhood that I thought was kind of unique and diverse.  I always wanted to live there. I have a soft spot for the barrel houses though and I like the idea of co-ops and that have random things like a wood working studio.  I like Blind Whino and the GMWA. It was kind of affordable and neighborhoody at the same time while having this amazing secret in the water.  It was definitely an older, working class vibe, but diverse. Other than Arena stage, there wasn't much to draw a non-local there, but I guess that's what the charm was.     

[Frosty Finger]

I am sorry but I was not aware they tore down the neighborhood surrounding the Wharf to build the Wharf? WTF are you talking about?

[Justin Tonation]

Fun article. Very post-show.

50 years ago this weekend, the Capital Centre opened its doors

[gavroche]

I am sorry but I was not aware they tore down the neighborhood surrounding the Wharf to build the Wharf? WTF are you talking about?

You don't have to tear down neighborhoods (or rebuild them) to significantly change them. For me the waterfront has gone from a sweet quirky and relatively inexpensive part of town to one that is expensive and crowded.  The development on the wharf absolutely impacts the surrounding neighborhood and who lives. And unlike Chinatown, barrocks row or whatever, I liked the SW neighborhood before the re-development and that it was a hidden gem.  It's not the end of the world or anything, but just the general homogenization that comes with redevelopment. I'll shed a tear for the waterfront of 15 years ago.

[Frosty Finger]

Other than the stuff on the water it looks exactly the same. All the big buildings full of condos are there. Prices going up aren’t a reflection on the Wharf but national and local trends taking place since Marion Barry left.  People that bought property in the area saw it go way up years before the Wharf was even a glimmer in PNC Hoffman’s eyes.

You guys are making some really stupid arguments. It’s like blaming Amazon choosing Arlington for developments in Arlington with price increases, condos , lack of character in Clarendon-Ballston.

Just nonsensical really.

[Julian, Forum COGNOSCENTI]

 Don’t want to go full JA, but the idea that an area was relatively low-income and that anything that makes it be not that is inherently evil or wrong is fucked up. Gentrification is amazing. There is no bigger redistribution of wealth than gentrification.

The real life “lottery” poor people have to hit is rich people deciding they want to live on their block.

[Julian, Forum COGNOSCENTI]

Like those idiots of you defending “The Wharf” of long ago, please show your work. Tell us what it was like in 1790 and please go decade by decade with the changes and tell us which are fine by your judgment and which ones weren’t, and why.

“Oh, this town that’s existed for 300 years has a different feel and socioeconomic blend by neighborhood than it did 30 years ago! The horror!”

Eat shit as you vote for Trump, Grandpa.

[Space Freely]

Like those idiots of you defending “The Wharf” of long ago, please show your work. Tell us what it was like in 1790 and please go decade by decade with the changes and tell us which are fine by your judgment and which ones weren’t, and why.

“Oh, this town that’s existed for 300 years has a different feel and socioeconomic blend by neighborhood than it did 30 years ago! The horror!”

Eat shit as you vote for Trump, Grandpa.

Drinking again?

[Julian, Forum COGNOSCENTI]

Like those idiots of you defending “The Wharf” of long ago, please show your work. Tell us what it was like in 1790 and please go decade by decade with the changes and tell us which are fine by your judgment and which ones weren’t, and why.

“Oh, this town that’s existed for 300 years has a different feel and socioeconomic blend by neighborhood than it did 30 years ago! The horror!”

Eat shit as you vote for Trump, Grandpa.

Drinking again?

Nope. Just regular, sober diatribe Julian.

[sweetcell]

Don’t want to go full JA, but the idea that an area was relatively low-income and that anything that makes it be not that is inherently evil or wrong is fucked up. Gentrification is amazing.

imma gonna hafta rain on that there parade of the affluent, 'cause they're the only beneficiaries here.

option 1: you're a lower-income blue-collar dude who is barely covering rent in your low-income, pre-gentrification neighborhood.  those with more resources "discover" your hood and start moving in.  all of a sudden the value of real estate skyrockets, and your landlord starts jacking up the rent.  you can't afford to live there anymore so you're forced out.  you move somewhere further from work and lose all your friends who are also scattered.

option 2: you're a lower-income blue-collar dude who is barely covering mortgage payments in your low-income, pre-gentrification neighborhood.  those with more resources "discover" your hood and start moving in.  all of a sudden the value of real estate skyrockets and your taxes go way up.  you can't afford to live there anymore so you're forced out.  you move somewhere further from work and lose all your friends who are also scattered.

how is this good?  and how is this not going full JA? ("the poors will benefit when us rich folks have our needs met... just don't ask me how")

[Julian, Forum COGNOSCENTI]

Dude. You’re smart enough to understand that the person in scenario 1 has no reasonable expectation of anything and the person in scenario 2 had hundreds of thousands in wealth transferred to them in exchange for “moving further away from their friends.” This is not complicated.

[gavroche]

I am, 100%. It's one of the most soulest parts of DC...it honestly bums me out going there. 

Hater

The sad thing about the wharf is that before the development I thought that area was a bit of a hidden gem in DC, or at least really liveable.  Arena stage, a bunch of co-op buildings with funky architecture the water right there.

I never said anything about redevelopment (or market forces for that matter) being good or evil. That's a discussion for a smart growth forum. 

All I said is that I felt something special about the wharf 10 or 15 years ago and I don't feel that way about it now.  Other than a few shows at the Anthem, I don't feel compelled to go there now.  Other than Arena stage I wasn't particularly compelled to go there before. I seriously looked at houses there then, but it wouldn't be on my list now. I'd say it felt both close and out of the way at the same time. Now it feels like it's more a part of the city.
 
As an aside, I suspect that renters or home owners who got priced out didn't make much money in the SW water front.  The quirky co-op structure keeps the housing prices relatively low, but years of deferred maintenance have the co-op fees through the roof. In general the economics of home ownership aren't as great as people think unless housing prices are really escalating, but the situation of a relatively stagnant price with rising fees and high interest rates is probably the perfect storm for current homeowners today who are living tightly..