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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: snailhook on June 25, 2007, 05:13:00 am
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yup, the warehouse next door is closing its doors to music on july 7th. my last show there is on thursday (details can be found in my clavius thread).
there is a good chance it will re-open in a new area, probably in a few months. hopefully.
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That's sad, but I'm glad it'll be opening up somewhere else. Nice place to see a show.
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Originally posted by snailhook:
yup, the warehouse next door is closing its doors to music on july 7th. my last show there is on thursday (details can be found in my clavius thread).
there is a good chance it will re-open in a new area, probably in a few months. hopefully.
Is it adios to the entire complex? I'm assuming developers and condos are involved.
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yes, the entire complex will cease operations in december. the music room will be finished in july, and the theater space in december. the bar/cafe will close with the music.
the city raised the warehouse's property over 500% this year, which they cannot afford.
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Property as in property tax or rent?
Originally posted by snailhook:
the city raised the warehouse's property over 500% this year, which they cannot afford.
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Originally posted by econo:
Property as in property tax or rent?
Originally posted by snailhook:
the city raised the warehouse's property over 500% this year, which they cannot afford.
[/b]
property taxes...
http://www.dcist.com/2007/04/26/warehouse_slamm.php (http://www.dcist.com/2007/04/26/warehouse_slamm.php)
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That is a bummer. I didn't go very frequently, but every show I saw there was an instant favorite. Keep us posted, snailhook.
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Originally posted by saco:
Originally posted by econo:
Property as in property tax or rent?
Originally posted by snailhook:
the city raised the warehouse's property over 500% this year, which they cannot afford.
[/b]
property taxes...
http://www.dcist.com/2007/04/26/warehouse_slamm.php (http://www.dcist.com/2007/04/26/warehouse_slamm.php) [/b]
This blows in so many different ways, but it doesn't seem like a situation where greater patronage or even a fund drive would provide a remedy. Short of (I'm making up shit here) a Mayoral order, or something I don't know what could be done. Are the property taxes a function of the DC government, does it require congressional approval to raise/lower taxes, provide exemptions for say historical, cultural significant landmarks, etc? I'm obviously ignorant on these details and I'm sure better minds have analyzed possible solutions, so it just appears to me the warehouse complex was victim of a cultural homocide, where's the justice?
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there isn't any justice.
it's fucking heartbreaking to see a building/family business that has been in dc for over a century lost.
molly's somehow related to col. brooks. not the restaurant, the col. brooks of whom Brookland is named for. I can't remember the whole story, but she's an amazingly interesting lady.
This is one of about 45 reasons why i really want to move back to philly.
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yes, property taxes (thanks, saco).
so it just appears to me the warehouse complex was victim of a cultural homocide, where's the justice?[/b]
exactly. the city is forcing the warehouse's hand by raising its taxes so high it can't possibly come up with the money. they intend to eventually build a hotel on that block for the convention center (and probably a starbucks, mcdonalds, taco bell, etc). there really isn't anything that could be done, the only "upside" is that the rupperts will make plenty of money from selling the property. if they had registered as a non-profit years ago, they might have been exempt from this crap, though i'm not sure.
This is one of about 45 reasons why i really want to move back to philly.[/b]
agreed. except i am actually going to make the move to philly instead of talking about it for the past couple of years. within a year, i will be up there paying cheaper rent, playing and touring more, and dealing with a hell of a lot less yuppies.
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Now that's two phuckin homocides, who is going to book all the cool obscure artsy shit if you're leaving? I'm not one to talk, I bailed on U street for the less gentrified confines of Bmore a few years ago, but there's no escaping it, even up there. I'm moving back down next year if I stay in the states, so we can't give up we have to try to fight this shit as much as possible. With the softening of the real estate market there has to be some flexibility in the build at all cost philosophy that's taken over the city's officials in the last half decade don't you think?
Originally posted by snailhook:
This is one of about 45 reasons why i really want to move back to philly.[/b]
agreed. except i am actually going to make the move to philly instead of talking about it for the past couple of years. within a year, i will be up there paying cheaper rent, playing and touring more, and dealing with a hell of a lot less yuppies. [/b]
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Originally posted by snailhook:
exactly. the city is forcing the warehouse's hand by raising its taxes so high it can't possibly come up with the money. they intend to eventually build a hotel on that block for the convention center (and probably a starbucks, mcdonalds, taco bell, etc).
waaaait... this doesn't have anything to do with the House of Blues trying to move in to the convention center area with a hotel + performance space, does it?
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With the softening of the real estate market there has to be some flexibility in the build at all cost philosophy that's taken over the city's officials in the last half decade don't you think?[/b]
it's really up to the clubs in this city to stop booking dance night and dj nights and booking the same old tired local crap. but that is the stuff that generates money, not the interesting, artistic, freaky stuff. experimental music relies on independent and alternative venues, unless the masses change and start coming to these shows. sadly, i don't see that happening in this town. i don't want to sound like a total elitist asshole, but i just don't see the interest here for my kind of music. and that includes not just experimental, but also doom/sludge metal, fingerpicking folk guitar, psych, noise/drone, and free jazz. there are way more folks in philly who dig this kind of thing.
there haven't been many independent/alternative venues popping up around here because of sky-high rent and property values. this also does not bode well for bookstores and video stores and fringe shops, as well as live music venues and record stores. in fact, i am amazed that dc has four record stores near each other right now. i'll be more amazed if all of them succeed.
waaaait... this doesn't have anything to do with the House of Blues trying to move in to the convention center area with a hotel + performance space, does it?[/b]
well, not directly. indirectly, it is because of businesses like the house of blues wanting to move into the area that places like the warehouse get screwed. but specifically, the hosiery will really be screwed when house of blues moves in, because it will be on that block.
who is going to book all the cool obscure artsy shit if you're leaving?[/b]
i have no idea. dc needs some younger blood to step up and accept the task of fighting a fight most people don't give a shit about. i've been doing it for four years, and have spent way more hours than i should have. and consequently, i have no money to show for it. now, i don't care about making a lot, but i have been barely surviving in this city since i've been here, and i am convinced that i need to go somewhere i can afford, where i can work less and concentrate on my own music, a place where other people are setting up interesting shows and where there is an audience for such music. like philly.
it sounds pretty depressing, but i just don't see dc improving. the arts scene, especially for lower-brow stuff, just sucks.
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Originally posted by snailhook:
but specifically, the hosiery will really be screwed when house of blues moves in, because it will be on that block.
really? but they appeal to completely different crowds. HOB needs to sell 500 tickets to break even, hosiery needs closer to 50 (yes, i made up the number, i'm talking order of magnitude here). maybe hosiery would even benefit from some sort of halo effect from HOB's presence in the hood...
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I'm pretty conflicted on the property tax issue, because one of my pet peeves (that's a gentle, family friendly description) are the homowners who bitch and moan about tax reassessments while they, in fact, live in a $700,000 home they paid $200,000 for (and, hence, make monthly mortgage payments based on $200K). This is annoying and the whining of many privileged folks in DC. Granted, this was happening every day a couple years ago, less so now (on a short turnaround basis -- I'm talking about the folks who paid $200K in 2003 and were kvetching about taxes on their $500K appreciation)
However, it is a crime to see how these property values impact local businesses that have been around for years. Similarly the property owners who have lived in their home for 10, 15, 20 years and can't pay the increased tax assessment.
It's a cunundrum, I tell you.
The Warehouse saga is a shame. And alas, it's my neighborhood that will see the new Starbucks and Taco Bells and...god forbid...Hooters or Ruby Tuesdays!
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sweetcell, you're not understanding the gist of what i'm getting at. the house of blues is supposed to go up on the hosiery's block; in other words, it's going to take over the block itself. the building where the hosiery resides will be torn down. it's just a matter of time. this isn't public knowledge and i shouldn't be saying this, but i feel that some people should know. it will take a miracle for the hosiery to stay where it is.
with the warehouse closing, once i move (therefore ending 611 florida) and the hosiery goes down, in a year from now, the velvet lounge and the sangha cafe will be the only places open to experimental/outsider music. and the velvet is open to it because i am booking and working there.
unless something else opens soon, or an alternative venue opens its doors, there will hardly be any experimental music in dc at all. just the same old indie rock, bland alt-country, and wannabe brit-pop that has already taken over the city.
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I could be (and probably am) but i heard from a fairly reliable source that the HoB thing will not happen.
but who knows. they're putting an f-ing wax museum in the old Woodies building.
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i meant to say "i could be wrong"...
i hope i'm not 'tho.
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even if HOB somehow does not obtain that property, the hosiery isn't in a good position as it is. they are just some artists renting out studio space, like the automobile repai shop next to it. how long they can stay depends upon the good will of the property's owners, who, like everybody else in this town, are sitting on a goldmine. the hosiery (and the auto shop) may still be there in a year, but i would be surprised.
although rental rates have slowed down around town (as bnyce mentioned), the area where the warehouse and hosiery are located is still ripe for (over)development, being located on the cusp of downtown.
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Originally posted by tigers scare me:
they're putting an f-ing wax museum in the old Woodies building.
You have got to be shitting me. Holy..... YUCK. They're going to tip Chinatown/Gallery Place right over into American Mall-ville, aren't they?
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Originally posted by snailhook:
unless something else opens soon, or an alternative venue opens its doors, there will hardly be any experimental music in dc at all. just the same old indie rock, bland alt-country, and wannabe brit-pop that has already taken over the city.
good lord you're crotchety. you should fit right in up in Philly. just curse more and throw batteries at your sports' teams referees.
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sell the warehouse. take some of the $ and buy a cheaper bldg on h st ne and start again.
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good lord you're crotchety. you should fit right in up in Philly. just curse more and throw batteries at your sports' teams referees.[/b]
sure, i may be opinionated and jaded, but at least i'm out there, every fucking day, doing something about it. that's more than i can say for some people. i'm just telling it like i see it.
and thanks, i already fit in fine in philly. that's why i'm moving there.
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This is a damn shame. I've got to admit that Philly does have a much more diverse music scene. As a Shoegazer, I've seen how very, very difficult it's been to get shows and an audience within DC. Oddly, Fredericksburg, Va. and Baltimore have been much more open to the scene. It's fairly strong up in Philly. Same with Psychedelia.
For awhile, I thought that it was just me who was thinking that DC seemed to be polarizing it's music scene. After reading this thread, it's apparent that it isn't only my thoughts.
Snail, have you been to Johnny Brenda's yet? I never get up there but they have a lot of good shows. Still very sorry I missed Sonic Boom there last April.
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Very sad news. :( Even more disconcerting to know that there will barely be any experimental shows booked in dc a year from now. The thought that even as close as Baltimore, an experimental scene could thrive while there's barely any interest here is perplexing. Supposedly, places like Floristree are packed just about every night a show is held there.
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Snail, have you been to Johnny Brenda's yet? I never get up there but they have a lot of good shows. Still very sorry I missed Sonic Boom there last April.[/b]
yup, i've been to JB's about four times (for bert jansch, suishou no fune, pissed jeans, and something i can't remember). it's an excellent place and has become my favorite place to see a show in philly. i missed sonic boom, too, and heard it was great; i just couldn't get up there on a monday night.
Even more disconcerting to know that there will barely be any experimental shows booked in dc a year from now.[/b]
well, i'm looking out for a couple of people who can take my place and book some shows when i leave. since i play music and will want to come back to dc a lot, i'll still book some stuff. dc just needs a couple of new people to step up and do something.
Supposedly, places like Floristree are packed just about every night a show is held there.[/b]
actually, this is completely untrue. there have been some packed shows, but just as often, it's completely empty. i know the guy who lives there and runs the shows, and he's a friend of mine, but he doesn't do much promotion for certain shows. it's like the warehouse: one show can get 100 people, the next 10.
honestly, baltimore isn't as hot as it used to be. it's a much better scene for experimental music if you're a musician, but if you're just a fan, it's not much different than dc. there are not many clubs booking avant-garde music, and there are a few viable alternative spaces (the red room, the bank, floristree space). as someone who goes to many shows in both dc and baltimore, the attendance varies wildly in both places. i will say that baltimore crowds tend to physically get into it a bit more. dc crowds are just as attentive, they just take the immobile nerdy approach.
in this country, experimental music just doesn't do well anywhere (except for maybe nyc, chicago, and san francisco), but there still need to be venues to host it. this is why alternative venues are important: the overhead is so low that low-attended shows won't affect the business much.
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Ahh thanks for clarifying. I've never been to floristree myself but a couple articles I've read seem to attempt to paint shows there (especially the wham city stuff) as these madhouses where people are jostling in order to gain prime spots.
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Originally posted by snailhook:
somewhere i can afford, where i can work less and concentrate on my own music, a place where other people are setting up interesting shows and where there is an audience for such music
sounds like a certain city on the west coast
:D
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SF? ;)
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I've never been to floristree myself but a couple articles I've read seem to attempt to paint shows there (especially the wham city stuff) as these madhouses where people are jostling in order to gain prime spots.[/b]
well, the wham city stuff (dan deacon, sand cats, cex, video hippos, beach house, ponytail, ecstatic sunshine, etc) does extremely well. kids are eating that stuff up right now. personally, i find much of it entertaining to watch, but their records don't interest me. they're all good kids and i've booked all of them once and some of them a few times. my band played the wham city fest last year (though we were a shot of fucked-up darkness in a sea of dancing art-school kids). beach house have some excellent songs, and ponytail shreds.
sounds like a certain city on the west coast[/b]
actually, pollard, if i ever leave the east coast, portland is where i'm going. i absolutely love it there. i see myself leaving philly at some point and living the rest of my life in the woods outside of portland, like when i'm 45 or 50. i just have to be on the east coast for now.
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Yeah I really wanted to catch those carpark showcases you put on that weekend a few months ago but had some previous engagements I couldn't get out of. The beach house disc is great and they were decent the one time I saw them live; been wanting to see ponytail for a while now and still haven't gotten the chance. Love their album. Saw wzt hearts open for panda bear last week; very intense and awesome.
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Originally posted by azaghal1981:
SF? ;)
He said "afford"....
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Warehouse re-opening in Columbia Heights? (http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/index.php/2007/08/01/taking-the-warehouse-to-new-heights/)
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we'll see if this actually goes through. if not, there's another option on u street they're looking at. i am positive the warehouse will re-open, it's just a matter of when and where.
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Good to hear they are coming back! Wherever they go, I sure hope it's some place with fairly easy parking. Maybe I'm wrong but Columbia Heights won't be easy. For those of us who must drive in, sometimes it's just not worth the bother when you have to add an extra 45 minutes onto your travel time just to drive around looking for parking.
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Sucks that the owners are getting pushed out but it might be for the best if the Warehouse moves to a better location. Live music needs to be closer to where folks live, not work. A move to U Street would make a world of difference for the folks who live around Mt. Pleasant, Dupont, Columbia Hts communities and could lead to more of a scene developing. Keep the faith DC.