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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: Venerable Bede on November 16, 2004, 03:25:00 pm

Title: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: Venerable Bede on November 16, 2004, 03:25:00 pm
Guerrero voted AL MVP
 
 By RONALD BLUM, AP Sports Writer
 November 16, 2004
 NEW YORK (AP) -- Vladimir Guerrero won the American League MVP award Tuesday, just the fifth time a player switched leagues and earned the honor in his first season with his new team.
 
 The Anaheim Angels right fielder received 21 of 28 first-place votes and 354 points in balloting by the Baseball Writers' Association of America.
 
 New York Yankees right fielder Gary Sheffield finished second with five first-place votes and 254 points. Boston players split the remaining two first-place votes, with left fielder Manny Ramirez finishing third with 238 points and designated hitter David Ortiz winding up fourth with 174 points.
 
 Guerrero, 28, signed with the Angels last winter after eight seasons with the Montreal Expos. He hit .337 with 39 homers and 126 RBIs as Anaheim won the AL West, and led the league with 124 runs and 366 total bases. He batted .371 in September with 10 homers and 23 RBIs.
 
 The only other non-rookies who became MVPs in their first AL seasons were Baltimore's Frank Robinson (1966), Chicago's Dick Allen (1972) and Detroit's Willie Hernandez (1984). In the NL, Kirk Gibson accomplished the feat with Los Angeles in 1988.
 
 Houston's Roger Clemens won the NL Cy Young Award last week following his first season in the league. Clemens won six Cy Youngs in the AL.
 
 Guerrero became the second Angels player to win, joining Don Baylor (1979). He is the fourth Dominican to be MVP, following Toronto's George Bell (1987), the Chicago Cubs' Sammy Sosa (1998) and Oakland's Miguel Tejada (2002).
 
 Guerrero gets a $500,000 bonus for winning the award and Ramirez $100,000 for finishing third. Ortiz didn't get anything for finishing fourth -- but would get $400,000 for finishing second through fifth in his contract that starts next season.
 
 Tejada, now with Baltimore, gets a $300,000 bonus for finishing fifth, and Detroit's Ivan Rodriguez gets $100,000 for winding up 10th.
 
 
 Updated on Tuesday, Nov 16, 2004 2:00 pm EST
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on November 16, 2004, 03:31:00 pm
What did Vansmack do?
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: sonickteam2 on November 16, 2004, 03:32:00 pm
horseshit.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: vansmack on November 16, 2004, 03:49:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
  What did Vansmack do?
Lobbied hard my friend!!!!!
 
 Thanks Venerable.  I know what you mean even if others don't!
 
 Good for Vladi and good for Arte Moreno, who went out and got his guy.  Now I have to go lobby for him to leave "Anaheim" alone.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: vansmack on November 16, 2004, 03:59:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  horseshit.
21 of 28 first place votes is hardly horseshit, especially for someone who plays on the Left Coast.
 
 He hit nearly 30 points higher, trailed in doubles, RBI's, and HRs by less then 5 without playing 81 games with the green monster, stole 11 more bases, scored 16 more runs, not to mention he led the AL in throwing guys out on the basepaths (13), even with people knowing he has an arm.  Manny threw out 4 players, even with the short fence behind him.
 
 Maybe if it was Manny and not David Ortiz hitting all those walkoff HR's you'd have a case, but from Aug 15 on, Vlad carried the Angels into the postseason.  That's what MVP's do.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: Guiny on November 16, 2004, 04:13:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  horseshit.
I know, Sheffield shoulda got it.   ;)  
 
 Seriously, Vlad is the man.   :cool:
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: Venerable Bede on November 16, 2004, 04:16:00 pm
what i like best about that article is knowing that tejada got $300K for coming in 5th, but manny got $100K, and david ortiz got bupkus.  course, ortiz was a cast-off from the twins, and generally unwanted.  but manny needs to get himself a new agent.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: sonickteam2 on November 16, 2004, 04:21:00 pm
sorry smackie.  vlad is a great player, but i think had Ramirez and Ortiz not been on the same team one of them would've had it.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: sonickteam2 on November 16, 2004, 04:23:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
   but manny needs to get himself a new agent.
manny makes like $21 million a year
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: Fico on November 16, 2004, 04:28:00 pm
I'm just pretty proud as a Dominican that 4 out of the 5 finalists are fellow countrymen...
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on November 16, 2004, 04:28:00 pm
Then how do you justify Bonds' getting the MVP, and not Pujols?
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by vansmack:
   
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  horseshit.
, but from Aug 15 on, Vlad carried the Angels into the postseason.  That's what MVP's do. [/b]
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: vansmack on November 16, 2004, 05:32:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
  Then how do you justify Bonds' getting the MVP, and not Pujols?
 
   
I don't.  I wouldn't have picked Bonds.  I don't like cheaters.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: vansmack on November 16, 2004, 05:36:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  sorry smackie.  vlad is a great player, but i think had Ramirez and Ortiz not been on the same team one of them would've had it.
Right.  If they didn't play together all you could do is reduce the number of times one scored and the number of RBI's the other had, but it's not like they split the first place votes so Vlad got it.  Look at the math:
 
 AL MVP Award Voting
 Player, team  1st  2nd  3rd  Total  
 Guerrero, Ana.  21  5  1  354  
 Sheffield, N.Y.  5  8  9  254  
 Ramirez, Bos.  1  14  9  238  
 Ortiz, Bos.  1  --  5  174  
 Tejada, Bal.  --  1  --  123  
 
 One for Manny, one for Ortiz, five for Sheff, and TWENTY ONE for Vlad.  This wasn't even close.  How do you figure?
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: markie on November 16, 2004, 05:37:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
  What did Vansmack do?
Yeah, what did he do?
 
   <img src="http://larry.teamoverkill.com/pics/temp/worst_thread_ever.jpg" alt=" - " />
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: vansmack on November 16, 2004, 05:41:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Deepak Chopra:
  Yeah, what did he do?
 
 
Which reminds me,  I saw Deepak Chopra this weekend speak with Dean Ornisch.  Not that impressed but the hippies here in No Cal love him.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: markie on November 16, 2004, 05:45:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by vansmack:
   
Which reminds me,  I saw Deepak Chopra this weekend speak with Dean Ornisch.  Not that impressed but the hippies here in No Cal love him. [/QB][/QUOTE]
 
  I looked down upon the unfaithful. (http://www.ntskeptics.org/cartoons/deepakchopra.gif)
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: sonickteam2 on November 16, 2004, 05:49:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by vansmack:
   
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  sorry smackie.  vlad is a great player, but i think had Ramirez and Ortiz not been on the same team one of them would've had it.
Right.  If they didn't play together all you could do is reduce the number of times one scored and the number of RBI's the other had, but it's not like they split the first place votes so Vlad got it.  Look at the math:
 
 AL MVP Award Voting
 Player, team  1st  2nd  3rd  Total  
 Guerrero, Ana.  21  5  1  354  
 Sheffield, N.Y.  5  8  9  254  
 Ramirez, Bos.  1  14  9  238  
 Ortiz, Bos.  1  --  5  174  
 Tejada, Bal.  --  1  --  123  
 
 One for Manny, one for Ortiz, five for Sheff, and TWENTY ONE for Vlad.  This wasn't even close.  How do you figure? [/b]
the votes arent really the math.  people voted for them.  
 
 so if you take Manny's numbers and David's numbers and Vlad's numbers, whose are more valuable compared to the rest of the team.
 
   i mean, Vlad is MORE valuable to Los Angeles than either Ortiz or Ramirez is to Boston, but I would take Ramirez over Guerrero on most days.
 
   i think Ortiz not just took votes from Manny and vice versa, but they kinda cancelled each other out completely.
 
   but i dont care too much, cause we won the goddamn world series.
 
   i am just sayin.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: markie on November 16, 2004, 05:55:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
    but i dont care too much, cause we won the goddamn world series.
 
   i am just sayin.
America takes it again, that is amazing! Is this like, the millionth time the world series is won by an American team? You tall Americans, you!
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: Venerable Bede on November 16, 2004, 06:05:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
 
   i mean, Vlad is MORE valuable to Los Angeles than either Ortiz or Ramirez is to Boston
you said it yourself!!!  
 
 oh, and the team is in anaheim, not l.a.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: ratioci nation on November 16, 2004, 06:10:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Deepak Chopra:
  America takes it again, that is amazing! Is this like, the millionth time the world series is won by an American team? You tall Americans, you!
yeah but most of the players up for awards are not American, so I guess it is a World Series
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: sonickteam2 on November 16, 2004, 06:14:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
   
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
 
   i mean, Vlad is MORE valuable to Los Angeles than either Ortiz or Ramirez is to Boston
you said it yourself!!!  
 
 oh, and the team is in anaheim, not l.a. [/b]
i thought they were the LA Angels?  sorry  ;)
 
  i see that perhaps he was more "valuable" but really, is that what this award is?
 
  because how "valuable" was A-rod  to Texas last year, when they totally sucked.  and then after he left, they were much better?
   
   i think the MVP award is just like "the best player"
 
   well, at least Sheffield didnt win.  Guerrero will be playing for us soon enough.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: Fico on November 16, 2004, 06:24:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by pollard:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Deepak Chopra:
  America takes it again, that is amazing! Is this like, the millionth time the world series is won by an American team? You tall Americans, you!
yeah but most of the players up for awards are not American, so I guess it is a World Series [/b]
I can't wait till they have a proper World Series with players playing for their countries...of the top off my head the Dominican Republic would have in its roster:
 
 - Albert Pujols
 - Vlad Guerrero
 - Manny Ramirez
 - David Ortiz
 - Miguel Tejada
 - Moises Alou
 - Sammy Sosa
 - Alfonso Soriano
 - Pedro Martinez
 - Bartolo Colon
 - Alex Rodriguez (born in Miami to Dominican parents so prolly not eligible)
 
 the list goes on... Felipe Alou would be the skipper with Tony Peña as bench coach =)
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: vansmack on November 16, 2004, 07:19:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
   Guerrero will be playing for us soon enough.
Did you import a hefty number of hispanics his mom can cook big Dominican meals for, because the last time I checked, other than a handful of baseball players Boston was a fairly white city?
 
 Vlad loves Anaheim, and more importantly, Vlad's mom loves Anaheim.
 
 She would never let her son play for the New England Red Sox.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: keithstg on November 17, 2004, 09:17:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by vansmack:
   
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
   Guerrero will be playing for us soon enough.
Did you import a hefty number of hispanics his mom can cook big Dominican meals for, because the last time I checked, other than a handful of baseball players Boston was a fairly white city?
 
 Vlad loves Anaheim, and more importantly, Vlad's mom loves Anaheim.
 
 She would never let her son play for the New England Red Sox. [/b]
Vlad isn't going anywhere, but looks like Pedro might be...although as a Yankees fan I think this is a terrible idea.
 
 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1924287 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1924287)
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: Guiny on November 17, 2004, 09:25:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by keithstg:
 Vlad isn't going anywhere, but looks like Pedro might be...although as a Yankees fan I think this is a terrible idea.
 
  http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1924287 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1924287) [/QB]
I hate this idea, he is a jackass and should not be signed for more than two years by any team. Let him stay with the rest of those clowns. He disrespects The Babe and headhunts our best players. Well if he does sign, Sheffield won't have to walk far to break him in half.   :cool:  
 
 
 Sonick's gotta like the idea that the Sox are talking with Carl Pavano.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on November 17, 2004, 10:11:00 am
I would like to remind everyone that it was I who said theat we'd see Pedro in a Yankees uniform.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: keithstg on November 17, 2004, 10:18:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
  I would like to remind everyone that it was I who said theat we'd see Pedro in a Yankees uniform.
Oh, I remember, but I still don't think it will happen. After seeing Pedro pitch (albeit briefly) at Game 7 of the ALCS this year, I question why the Yankees would want to spend that kind of money on a pitcher who was clearly gassed. Hopefully George will listen to Cashman and Co. on that one.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: sonickteam2 on November 17, 2004, 10:33:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
  I would like to remind everyone that it was I who said theat we'd see Pedro in a Yankees uniform.
wasnt EVERYONE saying that Rhett?
 
  like all of last season.....
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: sonickteam2 on November 17, 2004, 10:34:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
   
Quote
Originally posted by keithstg:
 Vlad isn't going anywhere, but looks like Pedro might be...although as a Yankees fan I think this is a terrible idea.
 
   http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1924287 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1924287)  [/b]
I hate this idea, he is a jackass and should not be signed for more than two years by any team. Let him stay with the rest of those clowns. He disrespects The Babe and headhunts our best players. Well if he does sign, Sheffield won't have to walk far to break him in half.    :cool:  
 
 
 Sonick's gotta like the idea that the Sox are talking with Carl Pavano. [/QB]
like him or not, he was 16-9 last year.
 
   and i LOVE that we're talking to Pavano.
 
  if we sign Pavano and keep Martinez (thier plan, i think)....we are going to fuck some serious shit up next year.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: ratioci nation on November 17, 2004, 10:35:00 am
Quote
WASHINGTON -- The Expos made their first big splash since announcing their move to Washington, agreeing Tuesday to a $6.2 million, two-year contract with third baseman Vinny Castilla and a $16.8 million, four-year deal with shortstop Cristian Guzman.
Are they going to call RFK Coors stadium?  Why would anybody other than colorado want Vinny Castilla?
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: Guiny on November 17, 2004, 10:49:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
 if we sign Pavano and keep Martinez (thier plan, i think)....we are going to fuck some serious shit up next year. [/QB]
Unfortunetely, I would have to agree with you there. Unless we sign Randy Johnson and another stud. As for Pavano, he's a great young prospect, but I think pitching in hitter friendly Boston might rattle him a little. Florida was much more pitcher friendly.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: keithstg on November 17, 2004, 11:05:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
   
Quote
Originally posted by keithstg:
 Vlad isn't going anywhere, but looks like Pedro might be...although as a Yankees fan I think this is a terrible idea.
 
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1924287 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1924287)   [/b]
I hate this idea, he is a jackass and should not be signed for more than two years by any team. Let him stay with the rest of those clowns. He disrespects The Babe and headhunts our best players. Well if he does sign, Sheffield won't have to walk far to break him in half.     :cool:    
 
 
 Sonick's gotta like the idea that the Sox are talking with Carl Pavano. [/b]
like him or not, he was 16-9 last year.
 
   and i LOVE that we're talking to Pavano.
 
  if we sign Pavano and keep Martinez (thier plan, i think)....we are going to fuck some serious shit up next year. [/QB]
16-9, era near 4. Put him on the DBacks, Blue Jays, or O's and he has a losing record this season.
 
 Pavano (the Pride of Southington, CT.) will be a big score for whomever signs him.
 
 Signing Pavano and keeping Martinez (and Varitek)may prove impossible given their payroll limits (if they keep the range they are stating now).
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on November 17, 2004, 11:12:00 am
A losing record if he's on the O's?
 
 So are you saying Pavano is not as good as Rodrigo Lopez?
 
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by keithstg:
   
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
     
Quote
Originally posted by keithstg:
 Vlad isn't going anywhere, but looks like Pedro might be...although as a Yankees fan I think this is a terrible idea.
 
     http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1924287 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1924287)    [/b]
I hate this idea, he is a jackass and should not be signed for more than two years by any team. Let him stay with the rest of those clowns. He disrespects The Babe and headhunts our best players. Well if he does sign, Sheffield won't have to walk far to break him in half.      :cool:    
 
 
 Sonick's gotta like the idea that the Sox are talking with Carl Pavano. [/b]
like him or not, he was 16-9 last year.
 
   and i LOVE that we're talking to Pavano.
 
  if we sign Pavano and keep Martinez (thier plan, i think)....we are going to fuck some serious shit up next year. [/b]
16-9, era near 4. Put him on the DBacks, Blue Jays, or O's and he has a losing record this season.
 
 Pavano (the Pride of Southington, CT.) will be a big score for whomever signs him.
 
 Signing Pavano and keeping Martinez (and Varitek)may prove impossible given their payroll limits (if they keep the range they are stating now). [/QB]
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: keithstg on November 17, 2004, 11:16:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
  A losing record if he's on the O's?
 
 So are you saying Pavano is not as good as Rodrigo Lopez?
 
 
   
Quote
Originally posted by keithstg:
   
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
     
Quote
Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
     
Quote
Originally posted by keithstg:
 Vlad isn't going anywhere, but looks like Pedro might be...although as a Yankees fan I think this is a terrible idea.
 
      http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1924287 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1924287)     [/b]
I hate this idea, he is a jackass and should not be signed for more than two years by any team. Let him stay with the rest of those clowns. He disrespects The Babe and headhunts our best players. Well if he does sign, Sheffield won't have to walk far to break him in half.       :cool:      
 
 
 Sonick's gotta like the idea that the Sox are talking with Carl Pavano. [/b]
like him or not, he was 16-9 last year.
 
   and i LOVE that we're talking to Pavano.
 
  if we sign Pavano and keep Martinez (thier plan, i think)....we are going to fuck some serious shit up next year. [/b]
16-9, era near 4. Put him on the DBacks, Blue Jays, or O's and he has a losing record this season.
 
 Pavano (the Pride of Southington, CT.) will be a big score for whomever signs him.
 
 Signing Pavano and keeping Martinez (and Varitek)may prove impossible given their payroll limits (if they keep the range they are stating now). [/b]
[/QB]
I was talking about Pedro, actually. Pavano is much, much better than Rodrigo Lopez, as you know.
 
 The larger point is that apart from stellar run support Pedro had a decent, but not great, season. Certainly not one worth $15M a year, eespecially considering his injury history. Sure, Pedro MIGHT have had a winning record on the O's, but with an ERA around 4 relative to the amount of runs that the O's scored this year, it's not likely.
 
 FWIW, the O's will be below .500 yet again next season. Care to make that wager now?
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: sonickteam2 on November 17, 2004, 11:18:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by keithstg:
   Put him on the DBacks, Blue Jays, or O's and he has a losing record this season.
 
we're talking about him playing for the Yankees.
 
  you think he wont have a winning record there?
 
 
  trust me, Toronto isn't picking up Martinez. unless they dropped the rest of thier pitching staff!
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: keithstg on November 17, 2004, 11:27:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
   
Quote
Originally posted by keithstg:
   Put him on the DBacks, Blue Jays, or O's and he has a losing record this season.
 
we're talking about him playing for the Yankees.
 
  you think he wont have a winning record there?
 
 
  trust me, Toronto isn't picking up Martinez. unless they dropped the rest of thier pitching staff! [/b]
I was talking about his year in general, because 16-9 seems like an impressive record. But looking at the rest of his statistics, he really didn't have that great of a year. As I mentioned, were Pedro to have pitched for a team that scored fewer runs per game, he would likely not have finished 16-9.
 
 I'm under no illusion that Toronto is interested in Pedro, it was just an example. Was it confusing?
 
 As for the Yankees, I'm sure that if Pedro came to NY he would have a winning record. But for $15M a year, the Yankees could get somone younger, who had a better season, and wasn't on the downside of their career. 16-9, 3.90 isn't a bargain for $15M.
 
 And the Yankees already have one pain in the ass starting pitcher who is old and injury prone. We don't need another.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: ratioci nation on November 17, 2004, 11:35:00 am
Jeff Suppan (16-9) would take $10 million, but he is still on 3rd base.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: Guiny on November 17, 2004, 11:41:00 am
I just talked to a buddy of mine from work who is also a Yankee fan. He said if the Yankees sign Pedro he's sending all his Yankees stuff to Steinbrenner. This will not be a popular move. True Yankee fans HATE Pedro, He's an ass. And don't bring Clemens name up cause Yankee fans at least respected Clemens when he was with Boston.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: sonickteam2 on November 17, 2004, 11:42:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by keithstg:
 
 And the Yankees already have one pain in the ass starting pitcher who is old and injury prone. We don't need another.
really?  surely they seem to like having old injury prone pitching.  i thought that was thier GP.
 
   and looking further. Pedro's year, was only so-so compared to previous years.
 
   and 3.90 in a hitter's ballpark is not THAT bad. maybe like a 2.90 in Florida.
 
  plus, run support in Martinez's 9 losses avg 2.66 compared to 5.93 in his 16 wins.
 
   lets face it, the Sox have never won with pitching (til this past postseason!) we've survived with pitching, and won it with our bats.
 
  anyway, i am rambling.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: keithstg on November 17, 2004, 11:53:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
 [/qb]
and looking further. Pedro's year, was only so-so compared to previous years.
 
   and 3.90 in a hitter's ballpark is not THAT bad. maybe like a 2.90 in Florida.
 
 [/QB][/QUOTE]
 
 This was the point I was making in the first place. For $17.5M this year, that's not enough performance. The Sox's team era was 4.18. Pedro at 3.90 isn't much better than the average.
 
 3.90 in a hitters ballpark wouldn't be that bad, IF fenway was one of the premier hitters parks in the league. There are 10 teams with stadiums that have a higher hitters park factor than Fenway. Regarding his era being a full run lower in florida, Florida's park factor dictates that his era would likely be .15 lower at most. With the benefit of being in the NL Pedro's era would likely fall further, but not to one run a game different.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: sonickteam2 on November 17, 2004, 12:01:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by keithstg:
 
This was the point I was making in the first place. For $17.5M this year, that's not enough performance. The Sox's team era was 4.18. Pedro at 3.90 isn't much better than the average.
 
 3.90 in a hitters ballpark wouldn't be that bad, IF fenway was one of the premier hitters parks in the league. There are 10 teams with stadiums that have a higher hitters park factor than Fenway. Regarding his era being a full run lower in florida, Florida's park factor dictates that his era would likely be .15 lower at most. With the benefit of being in the NL Pedro's era would likely fall further, but not to one run a game different. [/b][/QUOTE]
 
 GEEK.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: vansmack on November 17, 2004, 01:30:00 pm
Can we get back on point?
 
 Anaheim's Mr. Clutch earns MVP
 
 --------------------------------------------------
 By Tony Gwynn
 Special to ESPN Insider
 
 The American League MVP race was wide open, but I expected Vladimir Guerrero to win it (his first). I thought the vote would be closer, though. Guerrero got 21 of 28 first-place votes.
 
 Some Boston Red Sox fans aren't happy, I read online, because they felt that Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz (who finished third and fourth) should have gotten more recognition for their World Series-winning season. But the MVP award only takes into account the regular season.
 
 The top five vote-getters figure to be in the MVP race again next year. Gary Sheffield (second place) and Miguel Tejada (fifth) had tremendous years. And all their clubs should be in the hunt next year, which bolsters anyone's MVP candidacy.
 
 In his first year with the Anaheim Angels -- after signing as a free agent last offseason -- Guerrero helped lead the Angels to the AL West crown. He had a .337 average, 39 home runs and 126 RBI.
 
 Guerrero led the league in runs and total bases, and he was Mr. Clutch coming down the stretch, getting big hits and driving in big runs. The day the Angels clinched the AL West, Guerrero hit a two-run homer. He deserves the MVP.
 
 Guerrero was an outstanding player in the National League, but lots of people never saw him because he played for the Montreal Expos.
 
 I didn't expect AL pitchers to give him any more trouble than NL pitchers had, and I'm not surprised he excelled this year in Anaheim. Historically, when talented players switch leagues, few have problems with the transition.
 
 At 28 years old, Guerrero is such a natural. He doesn't have to hit strikes to be successful. He's a premium player, and he'll continue to be a premium player for a long time.
 
 There's nothing in Guerrero's game or swing that needs improving. He doesn't have much, if anything, to work on, even though he's young. For him, the challenge each year has been to maintain his excellence, and he's done just that.
 
 Guerrero had some back problems last year, but I was surprised more teams didn't show interest last offseason when he was on the open market. Lots of people thought he'd end up on the East Coast, maybe with the New York Yankees.
 
 But he went to Anaheim, played in 156 games and became the cornerstone of the lineup ... and now he's the MVP.
 
 
 ESPN analyst Tony Gwynn was a 15-time All-Star in his 20 years with the Padres.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: keithstg on November 17, 2004, 02:27:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
   
Quote
Originally posted by keithstg:
 
This was the point I was making in the first place. For $17.5M this year, that's not enough performance. The Sox's team era was 4.18. Pedro at 3.90 isn't much better than the average.
 
 3.90 in a hitters ballpark wouldn't be that bad, IF fenway was one of the premier hitters parks in the league. There are 10 teams with stadiums that have a higher hitters park factor than Fenway. Regarding his era being a full run lower in florida, Florida's park factor dictates that his era would likely be .15 lower at most. With the benefit of being in the NL Pedro's era would likely fall further, but not to one run a game different. [/b]
GEEK. [/b][/QUOTE]
 
 Who are you, tinygee?
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: sonickteam2 on November 17, 2004, 02:28:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by keithstg:
 
 
 Who are you, tinygee?
haha.  i didnt say "fucking geek loser"
 
 just geek. some people think thats a compliment, and i didnt necessarily mean it otherwise  :)
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: keithstg on November 17, 2004, 02:30:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
   
Quote
Originally posted by keithstg:
 
 
 Who are you, tinygee?
haha.  i didnt say "fucking geek loser"
 
 just geek. some people think thats a compliment, and i didnt necessarily mean it otherwise   :)  [/b]
Oh, I was just kidding anyway...
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: sonickteam2 on November 17, 2004, 06:03:00 pm
Percival obviously doenst want a World Series ring! (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1925075)
 
 
 ESPN.com news services
 The Detroit Tigers have signed Troy Percival, who spent his entire career with the Anaheim Angels, to a two-year, $12 million contract, ESPN.com's Jayson Stark is reporting.
 
 
 The Tigers are expected to attempt to trade Ugueth Urbina, whose option they had picked up earlier in the offseason.
 
 
 Percival became a free agent earlier this month, when the Angels elected not to pick up his 2005 contract option.
 
 
 Percival, 35, is Anaheim's all-time leader in saves, recording 316 in his 10 years with the team. He owns a career mark of 29-38 with a 2.99 ERA and helped lead the Angels to a World Series title in 2002, converting all seven postseason save opportunities.
 
 
 However, Percival spent time on the disabled list last season and finished fourth in the American League in saves with 33.
 
 
 The team plans to make an official announcement at 4:30 ET today.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: vansmack on November 17, 2004, 07:59:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  Percival obviously doenst want a World Series ring! (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1925075)
 
 
I'm just stoked Anaheim didn't give him $6 Million a year......so not worth it.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: sonickteam2 on November 17, 2004, 08:05:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by vansmack:
  I'm just stoked Anaheim didn't give him $6 Million a year......so not worth it.
sports really sucks, when you have to route for a good player on your team to leave so he doesnt eat up payroll.
 
  and then Fox makes some super lame story about it later in the year.....
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: ratioci nation on November 17, 2004, 08:23:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  Percival obviously doenst want a World Series ring! (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1925075)
 
 
 
just glad it wasnt the cubs
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: vansmack on November 17, 2004, 09:28:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  sports really sucks, when you have to route for a good player on your team to leave so he doesnt eat up payroll.
What does that mean?  What about my sentence about Anaheim not paying Percival is rooting against Percival?  
 
 I wish Percival would stay an Angel for his entire career, but not at that price.  What would you do:
 
  </font><font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">  
 </font><font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">  
 This was a no-brainer.  If Percy really wanted to stay an Angel, he could have taken the $3 Million offer to be K-Rod's set-up man or split closing duties.  You don't pay setup guys $6 Million a year.  Save the money now, give it to K-Rod before he hits the free-agent market.  Detroit offered Percy closer money and I'm happy he got it and the chance to remain a closer, and I'm glad Anaheim didn't.  
 
 I'm going to love to see what you say about Pedro when some team ridiculously overpays him and he's no longer a Red Sox...or better yet, if the Red Sox are that team!
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: sonickteam2 on November 17, 2004, 11:08:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by vansmack:
 
 I'm going to love to see what you say about Pedro when some team ridiculously overpays him and he's no longer a Red Sox...or better yet, if the Red Sox are that team!
that IS what i mean, exactly. I know you want Percival, but you don't want to pay him that much, and i want Pedro, but jeez should we really pay him over $15 million a year????
 
    thats the point.  I am not rooting against a player, persay.  Take Derek Lowe for example, do i want to sign him for $10 million a year?  no, hell no. so we have to get rid of him, and that sucks cause i like him.
 
   believe me, i wasnt being snide...i was sympathisizing.  me, more than anyone maybe, is going to have to see some faces part this winter...
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: vansmack on November 19, 2004, 04:50:00 pm
He's all yours DC!!!!!!  Enjoy him for 5 months!
 
 Angels to get Rivera, prospect
 
 ------------------------------------------------------
 Associated press
 
 NEW YORK -- The Anaheim Angels have agreed to trade troubled outfielder Jose Guillen to the Washington-bound Expos for outfielder Juan Rivera and a prospect, The Associated Press learned Friday.
 
 Anaheim and Montreal scheduled conference calls but did not announce the subject. Details of the deal were described to the AP by a person close to Guillen, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
 
 "It was the best thing that could happen, taking into consideration the way things ended last season between us," Guillen told the AP from his home in Miami. "I'm excited to be a part of the Expos and part of history, now that we'll play in the U.S. capital."
 
 Guillen was suspended for the last eight games of the regular season and dropped from Anaheim's playoff roster after he threw a tantrum in the dugout and clubhouse when he was removed for a pinch-runner on Sept. 25. In a grievance settlement, he agreed to allow the Angels to withhold two days' pay.
 
 Guillen hit .294 with 27 homers and a career-high 104 RBIs in 2004. He is owed $3.5 million next season.
 
 Angels general manager Bill Stoneman told Guillen of the trade.
 
 "I don't have any hard feelings toward Anaheim," Guillen said.
 
 Rivera hit .307 for the Expos with 12 homers and 49 RBIs.
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: sonickteam2 on November 19, 2004, 05:39:00 pm
are they re-building?
 
   thats another guy today?  hmm, they are clearing their payroll for 3-year $45 million Pedro deal coming next week!
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: booradley17 on November 20, 2004, 05:12:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by vansmack:
   
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  sports really sucks, when you have to route for a good player on your team to leave so he doesnt eat up payroll.
What does that mean?  What about my sentence about Anaheim not paying Percival is rooting against Percival?  
 
 I wish Percival would stay an Angel for his entire career, but not at that price.  What would you do:
 
  </font>
  • <font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">Pay Francisco Rodriguez $375,000 a year for this year and next year and save the $12 Million Percvial wants, and use that to re-sign K-Rod for the three years after his current contract is up</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">
   </font>
  • <font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">or pay Percival $12 Million to set up for K-rod for the next two and not be able to afford K-Rod three years from now?</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Arial, Veranda">
   This was a no-brainer.  If Percy really wanted to stay an Angel, he could have taken the $3 Million offer to be K-Rod's set-up man or split closing duties.  You don't pay setup guys $6 Million a year.  Save the money now, give it to K-Rod before he hits the free-agent market.  Detroit offered Percy closer money and I'm happy he got it and the chance to remain a closer, and I'm glad Anaheim didn't.  
 
 I'm going to love to see what you say about Pedro when some team ridiculously overpays him and he's no longer a Red Sox...or better yet, if the Red Sox are that team! [/b]
Title: Re: Congrats Vansmack!
Post by: booradley17 on November 20, 2004, 05:19:00 pm
In regards to Troy Percival,I am not sure why anyone would pay him 6 million a year at this point.He has struggled with arm injuries and has lost some heat off his fastball.Once closers start to lose it they usually have a pretty quick decline.At 35 the Tigers are really rolling the dice on this one.Unfortunately there are almost no sure thing closers available this off season with the exception of(and I can't believe I am saying this)Armando Benitez whom the Marlins would be very wise to re-sign.