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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: hitman on September 05, 2004, 01:46:00 am
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Save Merriweather (http://savemerriweather.org)
I was at the Cake show tonight, and there was a petition going around to try and stop the planned development of the area.
I know that there have been many on this board that aren't particularly overjoyed with Merriweather, but I think it is a worth while cause. Do we really need another strip mall anwhere for that matter?
The IMP boys have done great things in improving MPP. I wouldn't want their efforts to be for nothing, and would also like them to keep moving forward with this.
Please check it out.
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I actually like Merriweather as far as outdoor places go. I was at the show as well. I hadn't been there for quite some time and I was surprised to see the 9:30 bar there. Very nice addition, as I'd rather sit in a small, dark bar than pavillion seating while waiting for the headliner. According the folks inside, the pavillion will become office space if it is torn down. Its mostly up to the people who live in the area to make the decision. I'd hate to see the much larger, much more difficult to drive into, concrete Nissan gain a monopoly on the larger shows.
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Originally posted by hitman:
Save Merriweather (http://savemerriweather.org)
I was at the Cake show tonight, and there was a petition going around to try and stop the planned development of the area.
I know that there have been many on this board that aren't particularly overjoyed with Merriweather, but I think it is a worth while cause. Do we really need another strip mall anwhere for that matter?
The IMP boys have done great things in improving MPP. I wouldn't want their efforts to be for nothing, and would also like them to keep moving forward with this.
Please check it out.
How was the show? How's Cake's new album?
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Hitman, I agree with you 100%, and will do what I can. Now that IMP is running the place, I'm certainly hoping that MWP will be given a chance, but I have the feeling residents in the community really aren't aware at all of how/what MWP is doing.
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[/qb][/QUOTE]How was the show? How's Cake's new album? [/QB][/QUOTE]
Good show. Never had seen Cake before. Love the rattle, the singer is entertaining. Good crowd and easy seating with pavillion GA. Lots of crowd participation. New songs sound like last two records. Might go see them at DC Chili Fest (?) if it seems they will be allowed a decent set as far as length goes. Songs in no order missing maybe two:
Comfort Eagle/Frank Sinatra/Distance/Daria/Stickshifts/I Will Survive/Sheep/Never There/Wheels/No Phone/Carbon Monoxide
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How can office space be more appealing than a concert venue with such history? With office space; comes large strip malls and town centers featuring such classic stores as Target and Borders. Thats always dreadful. And don't forget the year-round traffic it brings. But maybe thats what the neighborhood wants.
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The list of artists who have graced the stage at MPP is pretty impresive. Jimi Hendrix, The Doors, KISS, Bob Dylan and Radiohead are just a few of the amazing shows seen at MPP. It would be a shame to see the place be torn down to make room for office space and condominiums.
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Originally posted by helicon1:
How can office space be more appealing than a concert venue with such history? With office space; comes large strip malls and town centers featuring such classic stores as Target and Borders. Thats always dreadful. And don't forget the year-round traffic it brings. But maybe thats what the neighborhood wants.
By my thinking, it's not more comfortable for the residents. Instead, it's more comfortable for those with big, cushy bank accounts and stock holdings who stand to make even bigger bank accounts and stock holdings.
Personally, I don't think it has a damned thing to do with what the neighbors want but instead has everything to do with what a very small group of investors want regardless of what might be best for the community.
Seth, care to enlighten us about any of this? Suggestions? (Besides showing our support. ;) )
Any of you geeks want to create an online petition that we could easily send around that would generate a lot more action? Maybe get some of the legal eagles involved just to get the wording down. I'll do what I can but I suck at those things. I can, at very least, get lots of them out...without spamming, of course.
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Any of you geeks want to create an online petition that we could easily send around that would generate a lot more action? Maybe get some of the legal eagles involved just to get the wording down. I'll do what I can but I suck at those things. I can, at very least, get lots of them out...without spamming, of course. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Similar stuff is already being done - someone posted the website at the top of this page. From everything I've read on this already, Rouse Co. is going to sell the venue. The best that can happen in that it stays a music venue. If thats the case, it will become a indoors venue, or maybe a retractable indoor/outdoors place. The fliers I've read, along with the website, encourages people to write letters and of course, give money.
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Originally posted by Barcelona:
Originally posted by hitman:
Save Merriweather (http://savemerriweather.org)
I was at the Cake show tonight, and there was a petition going around to try and stop the planned development of the area.
I know that there have been many on this board that aren't particularly overjoyed with Merriweather, but I think it is a worth while cause. Do we really need another strip mall anwhere for that matter?
The IMP boys have done great things in improving MPP. I wouldn't want their efforts to be for nothing, and would also like them to keep moving forward with this.
Please check it out.
How was the show? How's Cake's new album? [/b]
Don't know about Cake's new album. I thought the bad said that it drops first week of October.
The show was good. I had never seen them before, and was always interested. And for $10 how can you complain?
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Originally posted by Jaguär:
Originally posted by helicon1:
How can office space be more appealing than a concert venue with such history? With office space; comes large strip malls and town centers featuring such classic stores as Target and Borders. Thats always dreadful. And don't forget the year-round traffic it brings. But maybe thats what the neighborhood wants.
By my thinking, it's not more comfortable for the residents. Instead, it's more comfortable for those with big, cushy bank accounts and stock holdings who stand to make even bigger bank accounts and stock holdings.
Personally, I don't think it has a damned thing to do with what the neighbors want but instead has everything to do with what a very small group of investors want regardless of what might be best for the community.
Seth, care to enlighten us about any of this? Suggestions? (Besides showing our support. ;) )
Any of you geeks want to create an online petition that we could easily send around that would generate a lot more action? Maybe get some of the legal eagles involved just to get the wording down. I'll do what I can but I suck at those things. I can, at very least, get lots of them out...without spamming, of course. [/b]
Yeah, I wish this was as easy as blaming it on the residents, but this time it really isn't. The residents actually don't want to see anything done with MPP. Because they know what the alternative could be, another office building and strip mall, which Columbianites aren't excited about at all, because it certainly isn't pleasing to the eye, and it doesn't fit in with upper white middle class values. (That's my daily stab at Columbia)
It's all about money, and apparently Rouse doesn't feel that MPP is bringing it in like it used to. They say the number of shows are down, attendance is down, resulting in profits being down. I am sure that this may have been true in the past to a certain degree, but it isn't like Rouse or Clear Channel were doing much to make it better, or to lure more acts. Then, fortunately IMP takes it over, and look at what they've done. They have improved the sound system, lighting system, video monitors, as well as food, the grounds, and the area behind the stage. They are looking toward the future with their improvements, and I would hate to see that effort go to waste.
I'm overjoyed to see a group taking things on to try and save the pavilion. I think that turning it into another indoor pavilion would not only dampen the look and original spirit of the facilty, but I feel like then it would be even more difficult to lure shows there, with all of the other indoor facilities around the Baltimore/DC Metro area. To me, it would seem that MPP could be put on the National List of Historic Landmarks or something for Historic preservation, because it is one of Frank Gehry's first projects, and he is a major force in architecture now all over the world.
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I was hoping Seth would see this and shed some light on it. I guess we'll see.
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wellâ?¦
what we have here is a classic story
a company builds a town
whose town is it then? the company's, or the people that live there?
it is more profitable for the Rouse Co to build something else on those parking lots. the problem is, they're not weighing that against the long-term effects of stripping Columbia of it's character by taking MPP away. but, they claim it's simply their prerogative to make that choice.
the people have spoken and, thankfully, have turned the full corner from NIMBY to YIMBY. in fact, I have never seen such a display of residents actually cognizant of an asset they have, in the face of the occasional inconvenience. it's truly amazing how much they really do appreciate this place. at one time, Columbia residents probably wanted to close it. but now it looks like their kids have grown up and taken over.
at this point, all I can do is sit back and watch Rouse & the County duke it out. I've done my part, which was to at least remove the argument that MPP was obsolete.
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Here Here Seth. Good way to put it. I for one will keep my fingers crossed. I love leaving my school at night when there is a concert, and hearing it in the night. I could walk to MPP from my school.
I think Rouse and Co. are hypocrites. Here it is they have this big planned 'hood idea, where everyone is supposed to get along and live in harmony among the races and socio-economic classes. BULLSHIT! I work in Columbia, and let me tell ya, it is sad to say that segragation still has a slight pulse. They way they draw district lines for schools is disgusting. Some villages are black, and some are jewish. There isn't that much mingling going on. And it is pretty bad that my wife and I are both teachers in the county (been married two years) and between us have 11 years of experience, and can't afford to buy a house in the county!
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They pave paradise and put up a parking lot.
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Originally posted by RatBastard:
They pave paradise and put up a parking lot.
Pretty much, just change the words around a bit.
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Story today in Post business section about MPP:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33821-2004Sep19.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33821-2004Sep19.html)
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Originally posted by saco:
Story today in Post business section about MPP:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33821-2004Sep19.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33821-2004Sep19.html)
when hitting this link, all I got was a registration screen...is there a way to cut and paste the article here?
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Merriweather Promoter Hopes to Stay
By Dina ElBoghdady
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, September 20, 2004; Page E01
Seth Hurwitz, co-owner of the District's Nightclub 9:30, picked up the phone late last year and called a Rouse Co. executive to make what he described as a far-fetched pitch.
Hurwitz asked Rouse, which owns Merriweather Post Pavilion in Columbia, to oust the pavilion's operator and hire his tiny Bethesda company, I.M.P. Inc. Though I.M.P. booked shows for Merriweather in the past, Hurwitz figured his bid to replace radio broadcasting goliath Clear Channel Communications Inc. was a long shot.
It came as no surprise to him when the Rouse executive declined the offer, saying he planned to renew Clear Channel's contract.
"Then, inexplicably, the next day [the executive] called back and said he was interested in talking to me, and we got the deal," said Hurwitz, 46. "It was like a fantasy. It was like being in the amusement park business and getting the chance to take over Disney World."
But nine months into its deal at Merriweather, I.M.P. is enmeshed in a showdown between Rouse and some community activists in Columbia over the future of the landmark pavilion, built in 1967 to serve as the city's cultural hub.
About two years ago, Rouse began applying for permits to develop 51 acres surrounding the nine-acre Merriweather site, including the pavilion's parking lot. It also announced plans to enclose the 19,000-seat, open-air pavilion and convert it into a much smaller year-round performing arts venue.
In defending its decision, Rouse cast the pavilion as an outdated, money-losing operation that has been in decline since the 1990s, especially since 1995, when the larger Nissan Pavilion opened in Virginia. Rouse points to the numbers: Merriweather hosted 19 shows in 2003 before I.M.P. took over, compared with more than 50 shows a year in its heyday.
In June, Rouse offered to sell Merriweather to Howard County for an undisclosed sum if the county agreed to enclose it. Community activists revolted. Some organized a "Save Merriweather" campaign. Other residents groused about Rouse's plans for the adjacent site. And a few balked at using public money to buy Merriweather. Rouse gave the county exclusive purchasing rights until the end of the year, an option Howard County is studying.
Adding to the anxiety: General Growth Properties, which agreed in August to purchase Rouse for $7.2 billion, has not weighed in publicly on Merriweather's fate. Most likely the Chicago-based shopping mall developer will not do so until the deal closes as expected later this year.
Until then, Rouse must decide whether to renew I.M.P.'s contract, which expires Oct. 15.
"We brought Seth in because he had experience promoting enclosed venues" such as Constitution Hall and the Warner Theatre, said Dennis W. Miller, Rouse's vice president and general manager of Columbia. "I told him when he signed the lease that the plan was to turn it into an enclosed venue, and we consistently informed him of that."
Hurwitz agrees that Rouse told him that early on. But he disagrees with the strategy and the reasoning behind it.
"I went into it with the understanding and promise that we would adapt to whatever the future use would become," Hurwitz said. "But it's pretty clear that a smaller, enclosed venue would not last a year. It would go out of business."
Hurwitz launched I.M.P. (short for It's My Party) in 1980, at age 22, from his bedroom at his parents' Potomac home. Fellow music buff Rich Heinecke bankrolled the deal. The two met when Heinecke (who is 10 years older than Hurwitz) was a substitute teacher in Hurwitz's electronics class at Winston Churchill High School in Potomac.
After graduating, Hurwitz held sales jobs at record stores before managing the now-defunct Ontario, a funky beat-up theater on Columbia Road known for showing action movies. At the Ontario, Hurwitz presented his first concert, featuring the Ramones and paired with a showing of the newly released movie "Rock 'n' Roll High School."
Within months, I.M.P. decided to begin booking only concerts and it shopped its services to the 9:30 club, then located at 930 F St. NW. Six years later, I.M.P. purchased the club and, in 1996, moved it to a larger site on the corner of Ninth and V streets NW.
As the club's popularity grew, so did Hurwitz's reputation as an independent concert promoter. I.M.P. began booking shows at larger concert halls and butted heads with groups such as Cellar Door Productions Inc., which owned the Bayou, and Clear Channel Entertainment, the concert division of Clear Channel Communications.
In 1998, the Nederlander Organization, which had the contract to manage Merriweather, hired I.M.P. to book shows there. In 1999, SFX Entertainment Inc. took over the management of Merriweather and continued to use I.M.P. to book performances. In 2000, Clear Channel Entertainment acquired SFX and honored I.M.P.'s contract until it expired in 2002.
In 2003, Clear Channel, which also owns the Nissan Pavilion, took over Merriweather's operations. Soon, some Merriweather supporters said Clear Channel was steering the best shows to Nissan, a claim that Clear Channel has denied repeatedly. Clear Channel said performers usually prefer the Nissan because its larger size allows more tickets to be sold, and bands get a cut of the ticket sales.
I.M.P. took over management of Merriweather in January. Hurwitz said it sunk hundreds of thousands of dollars into refurbishing the pavilion and has scheduled 26 shows this year, including name acts such as the Dave Matthews Band.
Hurwitz said the pavilion will turn a profit. The only shows that haven't been profitable are the ones geared to older audiences, the demographic Rouse hopes to attract to a smaller venue, he said. For instance, Hurwitz said I.M.P. lost a "ridiculous amount of money" on jazz singer Harry Connick Jr.'s show in June, which drew 3,193 fans. But it made money on pop-punk band Dashboard Confessional, which drew 4,500 people the same month.
"It's all relative to what we're paying the band," Hurwitz said. He declined to disclose dollar amounts.
Merriweather supporters argue that it should be irrelevant to Rouse if Merriweather is profitable as long as I.M.P. pays the rent. But Miller disagrees, saying Rouse's finances are affected by Merriweather's profitability. "That has to do with clauses in my contract with I.M.P. that I am not willing to discuss," Miller said. "That's information between a tenant and landlord."
Miller said that although I.M.P. has done a much better job than its predecessor, the venue remains underused and faces tremendous pressure from Nissan Pavilion and Wolf Trap. "To extend the life of the asset, an enclosed theater could be used 52 weeks out of the year," he said.
Howard County Council member Ken Ulman (D-West Columbia) and several others opposed to Rouse's proposals say the company is pushing to shrink and enclose Merriweather because of its plans to develop the pavilion's 42-acre parking lot.
Miller denied that. He said the effort to enclose Merriweather is simply one to extend its use. He also said the land around the pavilion has been slated for construction since 1967. Rouse was only waiting to develop a critical population mass before proceeding, he said
Almost two years ago, Rouse proposed building residential units on the site, which the county rejected. Rouse is appealing that decision in court. Rouse's proposal to put offices and big-box retailers on the site is under review by zoning officials.
G. Wilson Rogers, senior vice president and general manager of Clear Channel Entertainment, said it's obvious to him why Rouse would prefer to develop the land. "It's a no-brainer when you consider how much revenue they get from Merriweather versus how much revenue they could be getting," Rogers said. "We knew the future of this parking lot in this prime location was suspect."
Hurwitz is waiting for Rouse's decision and hopes that Merriweather can continue as an open-air pavilion.
"Luckily though, I don't have to fight that battle," Hurwitz said. "Others are fighting it for me."
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I'm glad that someone finally said that this was about money. All along in print media, it was said that Merriweather is just a losing propostion. Leave it the guy from Clear Channel (who knew they had brains) to say that it was the fact they could make more revenue from doing other things with the land. You would think that the Rouse Co. has enough money. But then again, I guess for people like that, there never is enough money. Jim Rouse from everything you hear good about him, should be spewing in his grave right now!
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Wrestling for the Controls in Columbia (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7039-2004Oct4.html)
Bigger Issues Underlie Development Dispute
By Miranda S. Spivack
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, October 5, 2004; Page B01
A dispute over Columbia's last large piece of undeveloped land is shaping up as a battle that may be less about competing plans and more about who's in control of Howard County.
At first glance, the issue is a proposal by the Rouse Co. to build 1.2 million square feet of commercial space, possibly including big box stores and a gas station, on a 63-acre site next to Merriweather Post Pavilion. The company also wants to eliminate parking for the amphitheater and sell it to a buyer who would downsize and enclose the popular concert venue.
Just beneath the surface, however, simmers a broader debate over who will decide the fate of Howard County's commercial heart and its largest community: politicians, planners, developers or residents?
"The community says, 'We want a say. It's in our back yards,' " said Seth Hurwitz, the concert promoter who manages Merriweather Post. "But the Rouse Co. owns the land, they want the parking lots. That's their right."
The fight is unfolding on several fronts. A community group, Save Merriweather, is pushing hard through leafleting, phone trees and testimony at hearings to get Rouse to drop plans to sell the amphitheater. The Howard County Council has been holding hearings on changes to county zoning regulations for Columbia, which have granted enormous latitude to Rouse in its development decisions.
The governing boards of Columbia's 10 villages and the umbrella Columbia Association have entered the fray, giving their views on how the final phase of downtown Columbia should unfold. Former members of the Howard County Planning Board, legislators and others also are speaking out.
Tomorrow, the future of downtown Columbia and Merriweather Post may come into clearer focus as the county's five-member Planning Board opens a hearing on the Rouse proposal. A Planning Department staff report said the development should be allowed to move forward. But dozens of county residents plan to come out to oppose it.
It is early enough in the development process that Rouse is not yet required to explain its precise plans for the parcel, known as the Crescent Property. This will be the company's second attempt to develop the land. A plan for housing was rejected this year by the County Council on the grounds that it involved too many units per acre.
Rouse Vice President Dennis W. Miller, in charge of the company's holdings in Columbia, said it plans to go forward with the commercial proposal and sees no reason the plan should be turned down. "We will be there," he said. "It's business as usual."
But other community leaders believe that the time has come to assert more local control over Rouse's aspirations.
Two County Council members, Guy Guzzone (D-Southeast County) and Ken Ulman (D-West Columbia) have proposed building a network of pedestrian bridges and using Merriweather Post as a focal point for a performing arts center and a large green space that could be Columbia's "Central Park." It is a vision they said that would fit into James Rouse's original ideas for the community.
"There will be no big box stores there," Ulman said.
Complicating matters for residents is fear of the unknown. The Rouse Co. is in the process of being sold to Chicago-based General Growth Properties, a shopping mall developer. It is not clear if it will hold on to or spin off the Rouse Co.'s community development division, which oversees Columbia.
Some speculate that Rouse is proposing big box stores -- something the community will probably complain about -- as a way to steer the debate back to housing, which could be far more lucrative.
Council member Christopher J. Merdon (R-Northeast County) said the current fight may prove to have been a sideshow.
"I believe the Rouse Company really wants housing on the property," he said. "When the council submits changes to [Columbia zoning], Rouse will take a step to submit a new plan that will incorporate residential and commercial. . . . They will take a step back and withdraw this plan."
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I live in Columbia so I can chime in pretty well.
I grew up with Merriweather pretty close to the backyard. We could walk there, and I remember when the Renaissance Festivals used to be next door to it. It is a great place and should not be removed.
The concept of 1600 condo units (the desired plan) or the big box stores (the obnoxious plan so that you will take the "less offensive" one) are both bad. As a resident I calculate that 1600 units would add about 2400 cars (1.5 per residence lets say) which is about 1/2 a full MWPP parking lot. So every day you get a small concert worth of extra traffic going to the same place. Aint that going to be good?
As a venue of that size, who is the competition? Nissan pavillion? Wolftrap? Both far away, few Baltimore residents go there, and I don't either. Too damn far. With the downsized 5000 seat place, how many shows do they plan? 100 at most. That would be smoking crack, too much work. Maybe 50, back where MWPP was at it max show level. Tell me 50 bands that would work there and not go to all the competition (Patriot Center, Constitution Hall, UMBC Field House, Pier 6, any others I am forgetting)? It will fail if they do what they think is the way. Tonight there is a meeting in Columbia about this. I plan to attend.
Here is the Save Merriweather e-mail:
Dear Fellow Merriweather Supporters:
First of all, we want to thank all of you who came out to the New Town zoning hearing last Thursday. With your presence and the testimony of several supporters, we feel like we made a strong, intelligent statement about the community's concern over New Town zoning and how it impacts Columbia's (and Merriweather's) future.
But that's just the beginning. The next important event is just around the corner...
Please Attend: Howard County Planning Board Hearing PB-366
Rouse Company's Proposal to Build Big Box Retail on MPP's Parking Lots
Thursday, October 5, 7:00pm (please arrive at 6:30)
George Howard Building - Ellicott Room
3430 Court House Drive, Ellicott City, MD 21043
This is the one you've heard about. The Rouse Company has asked the Planning Board to consider a proposal for building big box retail stores - like Wal*Mart SuperCenter and The Home Depot - where the parking lots for Merriweather Post Pavilion currently stand.
If the Planning Board approves this proposal, that will be it - we will have little other recourse to prevent the development. That's why we need your help to keep Wal*Mart out of Merriweather's backyard!
Please come by and show your support for Merriweather. As before, Save Merriweather will be providing testimony and we encourage you to testify on your own behalf to impress upon the Board the strength of the opposition to this proposal. Plus, the first 25 people to arrive will receive a free Save Merriweather t-shirt (additional shirts will be available for a modest donation to the cause)!
Thanks again for your support!
Save Merriweather
http://www.savemerriweather.org (http://www.savemerriweather.org)