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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on September 20, 2003, 04:40:00 pm

Title: Jammin' Java
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on September 20, 2003, 04:40:00 pm
Anybody ever seen a show there? If so, is there seating, or is it all standing? Is the cafe separate from the performance space? There website does not answer these questions, and nobody is answering their phones. Anybody know?
 
 No, I'm not going anytime soon. Jus planning ahead.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: on September 20, 2003, 10:05:00 pm
Bilge, Mary J.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: BOOMERANG1313 on September 21, 2003, 12:38:00 am
Jammin' Java is pretty small, pretty much supports local bands. I saw a show there a bit ago. When you walk in it has a couple tables and chairs to sit down. They are also tables outside, which most people sit at between bands to have a smoke. They serve coffee and I think some other coffee shop type foods (salad, wraps etc). They set up chairs for shows and the stage is quite small, not alot of room for bands to move around but its alright. Theres also standing room. Sound isn't that great but if you're just going there to hear a band then its all right.
 
 Btw, Bombay Doors, They don't house only Christian bands anymore.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: eddie on September 21, 2003, 01:57:00 am
Did Luther Wright and The Wrongs play there a few months ago?   Where can you find their schedule?
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: kosmo vinyl on September 21, 2003, 06:07:00 am
I'm back online finally!!!!!!!  Only 60 hours without power.   I feel a song by Snap coming on
 
 oh yeah
 
 http://www.jamminjava.com/ (http://www.jamminjava.com/)
 
 it's a nice place to see a show... coffehouse in a vienna strip mall,  nice room, no smoking but beer available.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on September 21, 2003, 08:42:00 am
Thanks Boomerang.
 
 I saw on the Damian Jurado website that he is playing there with Rosie Thomas on a date when my mom is visiting. Was wondering if it was a place I could take my mom to, where she wouldn't have to stand up for a couple of hours.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: on September 21, 2003, 10:32:00 am
Bilge, Mary J.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: edbert on September 22, 2003, 11:29:00 am
Innocence Mission are gonna play there in November
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Celeste on September 22, 2003, 11:50:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by ??? ?ømþæÿ Ð?r§:
  The above goes a long way to prove a pet theory of mine:
 
 Rhett is a momma's boy...
well, he can suckle at my teats any time he wants to
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: chknfngrs on September 22, 2003, 12:05:00 pm
jammin java is no DC hipster hangout, but hands down is the best sounding room for acoustic music. dare I say has some of the best acoustics period for a mid-sized venue. better sound system than most like-size clubs around. True it is awkward to have all those seats in front of the stage, but also true is that it's a GREAT room to see a band/artist play. Smoke free I do believe.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: G.Love on September 22, 2003, 12:08:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Celeste:
   
Quote
Originally posted by ??? ?ømþæÿ Ð?r§:
  The above goes a long way to prove a pet theory of mine:
 
 Rhett is a momma's boy...
well, he can suckle at my teats any time he wants to [/b]
Mine too!
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Bags on September 22, 2003, 12:35:00 pm
I spoke to Jeff Schupp (I think his first name is Jeff) at Iota recently, and he plays Jammin' Jave pretty regularly.  According to him, they have fantastic audio equipment, so it's one of the best outfitted venues around.  
 
 And it used to be a Christian coffeehouse, but has been bought by two guys unrelated to things Christian and is working on a makeover as a great small venue for all kinds of music.  Based on its size and setup, though, it'll probably stick with the folk, alt.country, singer-songwriter, jazzy genres.  Though Schupp was pretty power poppy when I saw him open for Tommy Keene.
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by chknfngrs:
  jammin java is no DC hipster hangout, but hands down is the best sounding room for acoustic music. dare I say has some of the best acoustics period for a mid-sized venue. better sound system than most like-size clubs around. True it is awkward to have all those seats in front of the stage, but also true is that it's a GREAT room to see a band/artist play. Smoke free I do believe.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Jaguär on September 22, 2003, 12:37:00 pm
Bags, it's Mike Shupp.    ;)
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: hemisphire on September 22, 2003, 12:49:00 pm
Depending on the number of tickets sold, there may be 4-8 tables of 4 chairs each down front.  Sold out shows will just be rows of chairs, capacity for the show area is 180.
 
 And on a related note:
 I was curious, so here's capacity for some DC and around DC venues:
 FedEx Field
 80,000
 
 RFK
 55,000
 
 Nissan Pavilion
 10,000 pavilion
 12,500 lawn
 --------
 22,500
 
 MCI Center
 20,600
 
 Merriweather Post Pavilion
 5,200 pavilion
 14,000 lawn
 --------
 19,200
 
 Patriot Center
 10,000
 
 Wolf Trap
 3,868 pavilion
 3,160 lawn
 --------
 7,028
 
 Constitution Hall
 3,702
 
 9:30 Club
 1,200
 
 State Theatre
 500 (all seated) or 950
 
 Birchmere
 500
 
 Black Cat
 325
 
 Rams Head
 256
 
 Jammin' Java
 180
 
 Iota Club & Cafe
 160
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Bags on September 22, 2003, 12:53:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Jaguär:
  Bags, it's Mike Shupp.     ;)  
Damn, I knew I was getting it wrong, but didn't feel like looking it up.  Seemed like a nice guy.  I'd see him at Jammin' Java.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Bags on September 22, 2003, 12:55:00 pm
Is that the new Black Cat?  That seems low, 325.
 
 And look at Jammin', it's bigger than Iota!
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: markie on September 22, 2003, 12:59:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by bags:
  Is that the new Black Cat?  That seems low, 325.
 
 And look at Jammin', it's bigger than Iota!
I was thinking the same thing..... I am sure there have been more people up there than that...... I thought it was closer to 500.....
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: markie on September 22, 2003, 01:01:00 pm
http://www.musicianassist.com/database/common/tourdb/venue.asp?Region=Washington_DC (http://www.musicianassist.com/database/common/tourdb/venue.asp?Region=Washington_DC)
 
 
 says 500
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: ggw on September 22, 2003, 01:11:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Bubba:
  http://www.musicianassist.com/database/common/tourdb/venue.asp?Region=Washington_DC (http://www.musicianassist.com/database/common/tourdb/venue.asp?Region=Washington_DC)
 
 
 says 500
That says "Entry Updated: 5/5/1999"  Which would mean that's the old location.
 
 I recall hearing that the capacity at the new club is around 800.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Bags on September 22, 2003, 01:22:00 pm
I recall hearing 600 for the new Black Cat.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: chknfngrs on September 22, 2003, 03:04:00 pm
what night was Damien playing w/ Rosie? I think if it's a Monday it's part of an open mic type featurette. I hope it's not 11/24 as his site says, b/c it may not be a full show!
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on September 22, 2003, 03:19:00 pm
It is 11/24. From this on Jurado's website, my guess is that it's at Jammin Java.
 
 I'd be fine with it being on open mike night. That means it would be free admission.
 
 UNITED STATES/CANADA: NOVEMBER 2003
 11/02 Sun - Salt Lake City UT @ Kilby Court
 11/03 Mon - Denver CO @ Larimer Lounge
 11/04 Wed - Omaha NE @ Sokol Underground
 11/06 Thu - Minneapolis MN @ 7th Street Entry
 11/07 Fri - Madison WI @ Catacombs Coffee House
 11/08 Sat - Chicago IL @ Schubas
 11/09 Sun - Chicago IL @ Schubas
 11/10 Mon - Upland IN @ Taylor University
 11/11 Tue - Bloomington IN @ Rhino1s
 11/12 Wed - Grand Rapids MI @ Calvin College
 11/13 Thu - Detroit MI @ TBA
 11/14 Fri - Toronto ON @ TBA
 11/15 Sat - Montreal PQ @ Casa del Popolo
 11/17 Mon - Buffalo NY @ TBA
 11/18 Tue - Cambridge MA @ T.T. the Bear's
 11/19 Wed - Northampton MA @ Iron Horse Music Hall
 11/20 Thu - Brooklyn NY @ Southpaw
 11/21 Fri - Grantham PA @ Messiah College
 11/22 Sat - Hoboken NJ @ Maxwell's
 11/23 Sun - Philadelphia PA @ TBA
 11/24 Mon - Vienna VA @ TBA
 11/25 Tue - Atlanta GA @ Echo Lounge
 11/28 Fri - Jacksonville FL @ TBA
 11/29 Sat - Orlando FL @ TBA
 11/30 Sun - Tallahassee FL @ TBA
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: chknfngrs on September 22, 2003, 03:45:00 pm
what's the likelihood of wrong city for this? I thought rosie did iota proud. why not there? couldn't there be another venue? I mean I see it a lot where a band says they're one place but change it. I'd be surprised to see that show at JJ on a Monday.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on September 22, 2003, 03:52:00 pm
Those were my thoughts. I would think this show would be at Iota, but we'll see.
 
    I wouldn't mind it being at JJ, because as I said, my mom will be in town. With chairs and smoke-free, I'm sure she would enjoy JJ. If at Iota, I'd either have to put her to bed, or not go.
 
    If I didn't have company, Id be happy with Iota as venue.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: chknfngrs on September 22, 2003, 03:56:00 pm
iota = smoke haven
 
 but great bands play there. no doubt. we'll see I guess.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Celeste on September 22, 2003, 04:19:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
   If at Iota, I'd either have to put her to bed, or not go...
or get there three hours early and nab the booth for her...
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: chknfngrs on September 22, 2003, 04:26:00 pm
the booth = haven of the skeevy mckseevers
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Celeste on September 22, 2003, 04:34:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by chknfngrs:
  the booth = haven of the skeevy mckseevers
well, one who really would care to see the show wouldn't sit in the booth, but for a mom, it might be OK...please translate "skeevy mcseevers"
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: chknfngrs on September 22, 2003, 04:46:00 pm
i've just seen some shiat go down in that booth. 'nuf said. makes me wonder how much club mooking actually goes on. why would you sit down at a bar show anyway?
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: jadetree on September 22, 2003, 04:52:00 pm
I feel old, I don't understand anything chkfngers or flawd101 are saying.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Joymonster on September 22, 2003, 05:15:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by jadetree:
  I feel old, I don't understand anything chkfngers or flawd101 are saying.
Need a little help? (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wrader/slang/)
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Bags on September 23, 2003, 11:05:00 am
Neither do I...'course, I am old.
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by jadetree:
  I feel old, I don't understand anything chkfngers or flawd101 are saying.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: sonickteam2 on September 23, 2003, 11:14:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by Celeste:
   
Quote
Originally posted by chknfngrs:
  the booth = haven of the skeevy mckseevers
well, one who really would care to see the show wouldn't sit in the booth, but for a mom, it might be OK...please translate "skeevy mcseevers" [/b]
i think skeevy mcseevers is like a Stiffly Stifferson.
 
   and i dont know what in the hell those two clowns are talking about either.  I need my Generation X internet slang handbook.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: ggw on February 05, 2004, 03:22:00 pm
I went to Jammin Java last night to see Chris Whitley.  It's a cool little place.  
 
 As described above, there are some little cafe tables up front and rows of chairs in the back.  I don't see how they could fit 180 in there unless they did it as an all standing room.
 
 Smoke-free, and they have waiters that come to the tables.  Beer and wine and food.
 
 I don't think it will replace iota.  It's got too much of a mellow, polished vibe -- with the little tables and all.  Whitley was great, but I think I prefer to see road-worn, tortured, ex-junkie blues guitarists in a smokier and rougher place like iota.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Bags on February 05, 2004, 03:34:00 pm
ggw, what general area do you live?  Wondering how far it is, and if they post their schedule on a website or anything...  And how much was cover?
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Dandy01 on February 05, 2004, 03:35:00 pm
I had a hankering for going last night but my plans were derailed to Mr. Smith's.  I've only been on weekends so haven't seen a show there but it's definitely a nice spot food and soundwise.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: brennser on February 05, 2004, 03:37:00 pm
Quote
I went to Jammin Java last night to see Chris Whitley. It's a cool little place.  
I was there too! first time seeing whitley - I thought he was pretty good but damn the guy is fidgety (and he looks like he could use a good meal!)
 
 jammin java is a decent venue - its always nice to leave a place not stinking of stale smoke
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: brennser on February 05, 2004, 03:38:00 pm
Quote
Wondering how far it is, and if they post their schedule on a website or anything... And how much was cover?
a couple of miles past tysons corner center on chain bridge road
 
 www.jamminjava.com (http://www.jamminjava.com)
 
 $17
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: ggw on February 05, 2004, 03:44:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by brennser:
   
Quote
I went to Jammin Java last night to see Chris Whitley. It's a cool little place.  
I was there too! first time seeing whitley - I thought he was pretty good but damn the guy is fidgety (and he looks like he could use a good meal!)[/b]
Yeah, he's fidgety.  
 
 I saw him last about a year or year and a half ago, and he was a total wreck.  The guitar tech had to come play guitar for the last half of the show while Whitley garbled and mumbled some incomprehensible lyrics, so it was good to see him back in playing shape.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: mankie on February 05, 2004, 03:51:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by brennser:
 
Quote

 jammin java is a decent venue - its always nice to leave a place not stinking of stale smoke [/b]
Then let me invite you to Montgomery County Maryland...you can go in any bar you like and come out smelling of Fabreze. Of course there's nobody in these bars because they all went into DC so they could have a smoke with their beer. And come soon before they all go out of business.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on February 05, 2004, 03:58:00 pm
No smoking in bars in NYC or California either. I hear all their bars are going out of business too.
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by mankie:
   
Quote
Originally posted by brennser:
 
Quote

 jammin java is a decent venue - its always nice to leave a place not stinking of stale smoke [/b]
Then let me invite you to Montgomery County Maryland...you can go in any bar you like and come out smelling of Fabreze. Of course there's nobody in these bars because they all went into DC so they could have a smoke with their beer. And come soon before they all go out of business. [/b]
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: ggw on February 05, 2004, 04:00:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rutherford J. Balls:
  No smoking in bars in NYC or California either. I hear all their bars are going out of business too.
 
Actually, many of them just ignore the law.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: brennser on February 05, 2004, 04:04:00 pm
Quote
Actually, many of them just ignore the law.  
do they? admittedly I'm the last person to talk about smoking enforcement in NY bars BUT when I was up there last year I was astounded at the effectiveness of the anti-smoking law and the zeal with which barstaff stopped any would-be offenders
 
 then again, my sample size was 1
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on February 05, 2004, 04:06:00 pm
I remember Tonic and Bowery Ballroom being completely smoke free, and walking by numerous other bars where smokers were standing outside puffing away, freezing their nuts off.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: twangirl on February 05, 2004, 04:16:00 pm
Dang! I was there too, would have enjoyed hanging out with some other board folk as I was flying solo. BTW I highly recommend the spinach salad.
 
 I've known Chris for a long time, and was glad to see him so well last night. He is very shy by nature so it's not easy for him to perform in front of people, even after all these years. His guitars further complicate the issue, they are all vintage [his oldest is a 1929 dobro] and are not easy to get in tune, and some have a hard time staying in tune. Combine all that with the freaky tunings he uses in his songs, and it's easier to understand why he gets fidgety.
 
 I'm going back to see him again tomorrow night, anyone else going?
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: mankie on February 05, 2004, 04:17:00 pm
I personally think they should allow smoking in the workplace, so everytime one of the fuckers lights up (about every 20 minutes) all us non-smokers can go outside and do nothing for 20 minutes. That way we can take our turn at 20 mins working, 20 mins break for a change.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on February 05, 2004, 04:24:00 pm
Or 20 minutes working, followed by 20 mins chatboards and internet surfing.
 
 Smokers here have their own little smoking lounge...probably smokier there than the Black Cat on a gothic dance night. Nonsmokers here have a gym.
 
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by mankie:
  I personally think they should allow smoking in the workplace, so everytime one of the fuckers lights up (about every 20 minutes) all us non-smokers can go outside and do nothing for 20 minutes. That way we can take our turn at 20 mins working, 20 mins break for a change.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Bags on February 05, 2004, 04:25:00 pm
PETER CASE*
 roots/rock
 $10
 March 9
 
 WOW -- this kicks ass, and I'm going to try to get out there.  Peter Case is fabu, though I haven't seen him in about 15 years...  Lead singer of the Plimsouls, and had a killer couple of solo albums.  (Haven't acquired all his solo efforts; two was enough).
 
 PS, thanks Brennser for the link!
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on February 05, 2004, 04:30:00 pm
I've heard Peter Case is an asshole of a person, though I don't quite remember why...
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Celeste on February 05, 2004, 04:44:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by ggw?:
  Smoke-free, and they have waiters that come to the tables.
shit, no table service when we were there back in November, I remember not liking that fact...maybe this is a recent improvement...or they were just short-staffed that night
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: eltee on February 05, 2004, 08:41:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Celeste:
   
Quote
Originally posted by ggw?:
  Smoke-free, and they have waiters that come to the tables.
shit, no table service when we were there back in November, I remember not liking that fact...maybe this is a recent improvement...or they were just short-staffed that night [/b]
When I have been, they brought my food over to my table, but you have to stand in line to order.
 
 Too bad I missed Chris Whitley, I went to Stereophonics. Not going Friday, but I'll be there Saturday (Brindley Brothers).
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: eltee on February 05, 2004, 08:45:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Bags:
  PETER CASE*
 roots/rock
 $10
 March 9
 
 WOW --
Cool, I missed him at Iota last fall.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: kosmo vinyl on February 05, 2004, 10:55:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rutherford J. Balls:
  I've heard Peter Case is an asshole of a person, though I don't quite remember why...
from what i heard he doesn't like people talking at the bar while he is performing... and let his feeling be known while on stage.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: Barcelona on February 05, 2004, 11:03:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by ggw™:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Rutherford J. Balls:
  No smoking in bars in NYC or California either. I hear all their bars are going out of business too.
 
Actually, many of them just ignore the law. [/b]
You seem to know a lot about everything, but I think here you might be wrong. I have been in NYC a couple of times since October and it was impossible to smoke a cigarrette in the bars. Maybe in some more hidden parts of the city they don't enforce this law, if that is the case, let me know where these places are.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: ggw on February 06, 2004, 12:13:00 am
Quote
January 4, 2004
 Waiting to Inhale
 By Michael Brick
 
 Quietly, and without the contraptions or planning of Prohibition, the cigarette smokers of New York have created their own modern rendition of the speakeasy, where their outlawed pleasure can be enjoyed once more. There are no passwords. You just have to wait.
 
 The proper hour can be 11 p.m., or midnight or later still in places where the patrons do not like to go home. There is no schedule, no phone call, no listing in The Village Voice. The moment comes by common assent, by a shared appraising of all the people remaining in the bar and all the forces around them ?? the darkness of the windows, the breath of the staff.
 
 "I hear from lots of people, especially in the four outer boroughs," said Audrey Silk, a leader of a group that seeks to repeal the city's smoking ban. "They're letting you smoke."
 
 When the ban took effect nine months ago, disagreements over the public health and economic implications prevailed. Some establishments searched for loopholes in the law, like the Oak Bar at the Plaza Hotel, which sought to present itself as a cigar bar exempted from enforcement. In large measure, these efforts failed, and smokers moved to the streets, the warm weather making the ban's first months somewhat easier on them.
 
 Open resistance to the ban has been muted, coming mostly in the form of lawsuits, including one filed in Federal District Court in Manhattan just before Christmas by the Players Club, seeking to overturn the city and state antismoking laws. As the weather has turned, though, smokers have taken up secretive civil disobedience.
 
 In the past few weeks, it has happened in about half a dozen bars that were visited over five or so nights. Smokers themselves discussed the phenomenon freely; bartenders were interviewed with the assurance that they would not be named and that identifying details of their establishments would not be revealed.
 
 In each place, it was clear when the moment to light up had arrived. It was preceded by a sensation of being unmasked ?? a relief, of sorts ?? the kind that comes of knowing one is among friends.
 
 It is a phenomenon not unlike what happened to Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani's crackdown on jaywalking, when police officers working the streets seemed to decide that, you know what, some New Yorkers were just going to jaywalk at some intersections.
 
 With smoking, too, the setting can be almost as important as the hour of the night. The occasional sudden transformation into a smoking club does not happen in every place. Stay late on a temperate night at Union Pool, a shiny pickup joint in Williamsburg that offers pictures of naked women on the walls and the rattle of the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway overhead, and it is likely the moment will never come. There are too many people, and too many windows, and besides, outdoor space is ample.
 
 The opposite also holds. Setting can trump the hour of the night, and smoking can start before 9 p.m., but usually only when the nature of the place is so entwined with notions of decadence and indulgence that few behaviors are questioned. At the Buzzcocks show at Irving Plaza last month, for instance, even the uptight young woman who turned her head to shush other patrons (apparently she was having trouble hearing the punk rock music) held a lighted cigarette.
 
 Ordinarily, though, even in the bars most amenable to smoking, time is the common controlling factor.
 
 There is, for instance, a bright and festively ornamented bar in Brooklyn where a tight group of regulars gathers nightly to drink away the day's frustrations, to work crossword puzzles and argue word derivations. Among other attributes, the place is perhaps the only etymology bar in the city, and its character changes depending on the hour of the day. After a certain point, when only those well-known customers remain, the bartender, who has long since forsworn smoking and drinking, will sometimes lock the door.
 
 And all who remain know the significance of the turning of the bolt.
 
 What happens after the silent declaration that the rules have been lifted is the same wherever you go.
 
 In the far East Village on Christmas night, a silvery Zippo lighter rested on a pack of Marlboro Lights, right there on the bar just a short walk from the Ms. Pac Man machine. The sight was jarring in its familiarity. What bar did those same items not decorate just a year ago?
 
 The smoke that filled the air announced itself, if only because it had been gone long enough to let eyes and noses forget its taste. The smoke-filled bar, it said, was back.
 
 "It never really left," the bartender said, "depending on the time of night or what the clientele is."
 
 Over in a corner, Michael Reiss, of Brooklyn, sat talking with friends. They arranged themselves loosely around a table by a window.
 
 "Smokers in New York City are going to find what they need to do, what they want to do," Mr. Reiss said. "Here, even if you have an outdoor patio, you're going to freeze. You have bars that are going to let it go."
 
 So, knowing that the moment will come, the smokers sit inside these days, and they hold off their cravings as long as they are able. They may even bundle up and go outside once or twice for a light, putting napkins over their drinks like Southern Californians.
 
 In between trips, they wait.
 
 And then the moment comes, and it is like dancing ?? it is shared and exuberant and wild. It came after midnight one night last week to a dark and narrow room the shape of a railroad apartment in south Brooklyn, where Christmas lights and candles flickered. A sign on the wall announced that smoking was disallowed. Bodies were sloped lazily on couches. A man on a bar stool had his hand inside the low-slung waistline of his date's jeans.
 
 Boots and Converse All-Stars slapped the floor as the revelers negotiated one another, moving and talking and yelling and smoking. They were in for the night. Long after 3 a.m., a bartender out from his post flicked lighted matches at his customer's feet, laughing and watching the matches expire on the wet floor.
 
 "Dance," the bartender cried.
 
 Up and down the bar from the door to the back wall, the air grew thick and tight and noxious and hazy.
 
 "O.K.," said Matt Taylor, 23, a tourist visiting from Texas. "Everyone's smoking cigarettes. I'm just making sure. . . . "
 
 He let the thought trail off, and was quickly reassured that despite what he had read about New York, smoking was permitted in this bar, on this night, at this hour.
 
 His verbal reaction was overwhelmed by the magic of jukebox speakers, through which Joe Strummer announced from somewhere beyond the great divide that he was still, in fact, the all-night drug-prowling wolf who looks so sick in the sun, and furthermore that he was only looking for fun. His voice faded out and Paul Westerberg's replaced it, reminding a flight attendant who once told him not to smoke that she ain't nothing but a waitress in the sky.
 
 "Who's got an extra cigarette?" called the bartender, and it turned out that just about everybody did.
 http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20C10FA3F550C778CDDA80894DC404482 (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20C10FA3F550C778CDDA80894DC404482)
 
 
Quote
New York Times -- Bob Herbert Op-Ed column deplores uneven application of New York City smoking ban, noting Plaza Hotel's Oak Bar continues to flout law for its well-heeled customers
 
   http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70811F739550C758EDDAC0894DB404482 (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70811F739550C758EDDAC0894DB404482)  
 
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: brennser on February 06, 2004, 12:52:00 am
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Actually, many of them just ignore the law.  
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In the past few weeks, it has happened in about half a dozen bars that were visited over five or so nights.  
an interesting article, but it still doesn't conclusively make the case that most bars in NYC ignore the new anti-smoking laws, and the article suggests that even in the places that flout the ban, they generally wait until the wee hours
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: ggw on February 06, 2004, 02:44:00 am
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Originally posted by brennser:
 an interesting article, but it still doesn't conclusively make the case that most bars in NYC ignore the new anti-smoking laws, and the article suggests that even in the places that flout the ban, they generally wait until the wee hours
No, I don't believe most ignore the law, but many do.  And yes, even the ones that do, don't do it all the time.
 
 "[Anti-smoking volunteers] found at least one person smoking in 27 of 100 bars a month after the ban, and smoking in 11 percent of restaurants and four percent of bowling facilities." 27 percent of bars still have smoking? There should be a list of these places somewhere! (http://www.onefingerup.com/archives/000213.html)
 
 
 Flouting the law appears even more prevalent in California:
 
 a county survey in San Francisco showed only half of the city's bars were enforcing the new law. (http://www.cnn.com/US/9909/17/smoking.ban/)
 
 _____________________
 
 A survey earlier this year by the California Smoke-Free Bar Program, an offshoot of the American Lung Assn., showed that 40% of California's free-standing bars were flouting the law.
 Compliance was about 80% in Orange County, while in Los Angeles County about half the stand-alone taverns appeared to be ignoring the ban, according to the survey.  (http://www.no-smoking.org/july00/07-14-00-2.html)
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: mankie on February 06, 2004, 10:53:00 am
GGW your posts are becoming as long and boring as Rhett's...just thought you'd like to know.
 
 When we were in San Francisco we stayed with a friend...my wifes next door neighbour when they were kids actually....anyway, we hung it in the more local bars and everyone was smoking (full of Irish, what do you expect?). I was told the cops really only enforce the ban in the more commercial bars and franchises like TGIF, Bennigans etc. and leave the locals well alone for the most part.
Title: Re: Jammin' Java
Post by: ggw on February 06, 2004, 11:02:00 am
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Originally posted by mankie:
  GGW your posts are becoming as long and boring as Rhett's...just thought you'd like to know.
I'm hoping to spur you to make an extended post about proper fiddle care.