930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: chaz on November 23, 2004, 10:05:00 am
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...and the Vibe awards broke out.
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Who'd you go see play?
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When does Ron Artest's album come out? I hear it's so good, they don't refer to him as an "artist" but rather an "artest".
Saw him on the Today Show this morning. What a dumb shit.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Saw him on the Today Show this morning. What a dumb shit.
Yeah he certainly didn't help himself at all with that appearance.
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Well, he's a jerk, but i saw on ESPN last night, they were interviewing the fellow who threw the cup that hit Artest.
John Green...kinda tossed it over there, and when Artest came into the stands, Green stepped aside and Artest started pummeling some completely innocent (maybe) guy....then Green pulled Artest off of him and once there was a ton of people over there, started hitting Artest.
They also said Green has been arrested for assault before and has 2 DUIS in the last 5 years.
He's ALSO a jerk. and they revoked his season tickets.....they should play those games IN Detroit, that way the whiteys wont even come and start problems!
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The thing is, people like Artest confuse self-defense with retaliation.
You get a cup of beer dumped on you and then beat the shit out of the person, you're acting in retaliation, not self-defense.
It's sort of analogous to if someone on the board called me an asshole, then I tracked him down and beat the shit out of him.
I thought it was indicative of the dumb conformist mentality of these jocks when Gilbert Arenas said something to the effect of (in defense of Jackson and O'Neal, I guess)"Hey, if someone is getting on your teammate, you gotta go help him out."
Dude, learn to think for yourself.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
then I tracked him down and beat the shit out of him.
LOL....That's a good one....LOL
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I thought it was indicative of the dumb conformist mentality of these jocks when Gilbert Arenas said something to the effect of (in defense of Jackson and O'Neal, I guess)"Hey, if someone is getting on your teammate, you gotta go help him out."
Dude, learn to think for yourself.
I disagree about those going in to help the guy who did the wrong thing. At this point you are trying to keep your guy from being pummeled. That is defendable, being the first one up there is not.
The solution is what Cypress Hill did years back at Lollapalooza. They played after Pavement who were getting attacked by people tossing grass clumps. They had two thug like guys, one on each corner of the stage, watching for anyone tossing anything towards the stage. Nothing went that way. So same thing here, have some security who watch for this and are there first on the guy before the players can think of attacking. If the guilty party was down before Artest could jump him, then that would have ended it there.
Thatguy is needed there.
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Jackson (the second guy) didn't go up into the stands defending his man. He went up there as extra ammunition. He should get a longer suspension, he didn't even have beer spilled on him.
Originally posted by Sir HC:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I thought it was indicative of the dumb conformist mentality of these jocks when Gilbert Arenas said something to the effect of (in defense of Jackson and O'Neal, I guess)"Hey, if someone is getting on your teammate, you gotta go help him out."
Dude, learn to think for yourself.
I disagree about those going in to help the guy who did the wrong thing. At this point you are trying to keep your guy from being pummeled. That is defendable, being the first one up there is not.
The solution is what Cypress Hill did years back at Lollapalooza. They played after Pavement who were getting attacked by people tossing grass clumps. They had two thug like guys, one on each corner of the stage, watching for anyone tossing anything towards the stage. Nothing went that way. So same thing here, have some security who watch for this and are there first on the guy before the players can think of attacking. If the guilty party was down before Artest could jump him, then that would have ended it there.
Thatguy is needed there. [/b]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Jackson (the second guy) didn't go up into the stands defending his man. He went up there as extra ammunition. He should get a longer suspension, he didn't even have beer spilled on him.
maybe I am an asshole, but if thats MY teammate..I'm going up there too.
you dont know what those guys have up there? someone could have stabbed him with some car keys or some shit....its not it was two players fighting up there....i dont know, where do you draw the line at sticking up for your teammate...even if he's wrong....
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Jackson (the second guy) didn't go up into the stands defending his man. He went up there as extra ammunition. He should get a longer suspension, he didn't even have beer spilled on him.
[/QB][/QUOTE]
Agreed, Jackson went hitting a guy who didnt look like he was even involved. On the same note, Pacer players who were trying to break up the fight (Jones) was getting pummelled from behind by some fat guy who will surely be arrested and charged. Every single moron who threw something at a Pacer, even if it was a popcorn kernel, should be arrested.
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Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
Every single moron who threw something at a Pacer, even if it was a popcorn kernel, should be arrested.
only arrested???? i thought you would have had them rolled over with tanks!
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I don't stick up for anyone if they are wrong.
That's sort of like saying we all have to support the war in Iraq, because George Bush is our fellow American.
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Jackson (the second guy) didn't go up into the stands defending his man. He went up there as extra ammunition. He should get a longer suspension, he didn't even have beer spilled on him.
maybe I am an asshole, but if thats MY teammate..I'm going up there too.
you dont know what those guys have up there? someone could have stabbed him with some car keys or some shit....its not it was two players fighting up there....i dont know, where do you draw the line at sticking up for your teammate...even if he's wrong.... [/b]
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
only arrested???? i thought you would have had them rolled over with tanks! [/QB]
Don't be hatin'
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I don't stick up for anyone if they are wrong.
That's sort of like saying we all have to support the war in Iraq, because George Bush is our fellow American.
not really. but anyway
so if you're wife, or brother or best friend was wrong, you wouldn't stick up for him in the heat of the moment? say you were at a bar and someone threw something on them and a fight broke out and your friend/wife/brother was pushing and shoving with like 5 people....you would just stand there and say "well, he/she was wrong so i wont be getting in to help"
sure you would.
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Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
only arrested???? i thought you would have had them rolled over with tanks! [/b]
Don't be hatin' [/QB]
sorry
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I would try to pull my wife/brother/best friend off the person. And my neither my wife or brother would behave so stupidly anyway, so it's a moot point. The bottom line is getting hit with a liquid does not entitle a person to punch out another person.
A bar and a professional workplace are two different things. While my wife MIGHT retaliate to someone provoking her in a bar, I doubt she would do the same in a professional workplace, as Artest did.
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I don't stick up for anyone if they are wrong.
That's sort of like saying we all have to support the war in Iraq, because George Bush is our fellow American.
not really. but anyway
so if you're wife, or brother or best friend was wrong, you wouldn't stick up for him in the heat of the moment? say you were at a bar and someone threw something on them and a fight broke out and your friend/wife/brother was pushing and shoving with like 5 people....you would just stand there and say "well, he/she was wrong so i wont be getting in to help"
sure you would. [/b]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
And my neither my wife or brother would behave so stupidly anyway, so it's a moot point.
oh, how did i know you'd say that!
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
A bar and a professional workplace are two different things. While my wife MIGHT retaliate to someone provoking her in a bar, I doubt she would do the same in a professional workplace, as Artest did.
is your wife's professional workplace a place where other people go and drink beer? and rout for her to lose?
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
The bottom line is getting hit with a liquid does not entitle a person to punch out another person.
[/b][/QUOTE]
It's assualt and battery, so yes, it is a reason for a person to punch out another......Of course my violent opinions usually differ from a few other people. But if someone I don't know throws a cup of beer in my face, your damn right I'll throw a few punches and It'll probably take two or three people to get me off him.....Hopefully they do though, cause I'd probably go to far. I'm willing to bet that most people wouldnt just stand there and say "hey nice shot, I'll bet you twenty bucks you can't hit me again from ten feet away".
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Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
It's assualt and battery
not to mention, humiliating. besides, if Artest doesnt get up and do all that....nothing happens and this fan and how many others continue to throw objects at players....
two wrongs dont make a right, but two large black men beating the snot out of you might make you think twice before tossing beverages in thier direction again.
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This is why so many men are assholes.
Artest wasn't defending his physical wellbeing, he was defending his HONOR.
Which is not an adequate reason to attack another human being, or another country for that matter.
He should have acted like the professional person he is supposed to be, and pointed out the guy to security.
I can't believe you're actually defending this guys behavior, no doubt you are only doing so because it is me, Rhett, who you are arguing with.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I can't believe you're actually defending this guys behavior, no doubt you are only doing so because it is me, Rhett, who you are arguing with.
only semi-true because you talk so smug about right and wrong and always talk about people being thugs/assholes and how people shouldve acted.
and now you are playing the victim? poor little Rhett.
defending your honor is human nature by the way.....in fact not just human nature almost all animals do it too. Society is what tells you whether to defend your honor or not. and society doesnt tell everyone the same thing.
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Actually I'm defending him because It's how I feel, and everyone I talk to whether it be male or female agree with what he did. Female's tell me if someone did that to them at a club, there would be claws flying. Like Sonick said, people will think twice now.
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Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
Actually I'm defending him because It's how I feel, and everyone I talk to whether it be male or female agree with what he did. Female's tell me if someone did that to them at a club, there would be claws flying. Like Sonick said, people will think twice now.
and yes, i am taking the standpoint of how i feel, not just arguing.
you CANNOT expect people to have things thrown at them and not react to it....you just cant.
and you cannot expect to act however you want and get away with it.....
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I will be sure to be tossing my beers at Rhett if i see him out....since he wont retaliate...he'll just point me out to a bouncer, who wont have seen it happen and therefore, wont kick me out and nothing will happen. :) :D
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If a guest of my office throws a drink on me, I'm not going to start beating the shit out of him or her. That's just not what civilized people do. Perhaps they do in a bar (I rarely go to bars), but not in a professional workplace. If I did so, I would expect to be suspended without pay or fired.
You say that if Artest had just ignored the beer, people would go on throwing beer. Do you think that now this has happened, fans will never throw beer? Is that why Artest ran up into the stands, so that no player would ever have to have beer dumped on him again?
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That's why a suspension for a year without pay, as well as revoking the guys season tickets without refund, and barring him from the arena for a year, as well as criminal charges, would be appropriate penalties for the involved parties.
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
and you cannot expect to act however you want and get away with it..... [/b]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
That's why a suspension for a year without pay, as well as revoking the guys season tickets without refund, and barring him from the arena for a year, as well as criminal charges, would be appropriate penalties for the involved parties.
i completely agree.
it wasnt self-defense so Artest should be punished, just as and no more harshly than that fan. gone for the year.
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Hey Rhett, you never told us how the citywide brawl ended when you spit on that mime.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
If a guest of my office throws a drink on me, I'm not going to start beating the shit out of him or her. That's just not what civilized people do. Perhaps they do in a bar (I rarely go to bars), but not in a professional workplace. If I did so, I would expect to be suspended without pay or fired.
You say that if Artest had just ignored the beer, people would go on throwing beer. Do you think that now this has happened, fans will never throw beer? Is that why Artest ran up into the stands, so that no player would ever have to have beer dumped on him again?
wasnt he suspended without pay? i never disagreed with that punishment.
i dont think Artest thought of any of that, but i think after the fact...sure, maybe people will "think twice" (thats all i said, remember)
its just consequences Rhett.
would you drive faster if there wasnt any speed limit (of course YOU wouldnt Rhett, but most people would, agreed?)
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I would drive at whatever speed got me the greatest gas mileage and was safe.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I would drive at whatever speed got me the greatest gas mileage and was safe.
right
its nice to have a reminder of who you're talking to.
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Because that is what would earn me the greatest respect from my wife.
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I would drive at whatever speed got me the greatest gas mileage and was safe.
right
its nice to have a reminder of who you're talking to. [/b]
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
two wrongs dont make a right, but two large black men beating the snot out of you might make you think twice before tossing beverages in thier direction again. [/b]
Especially if you're an innocent non-threatening bystander who didn't throw anything. You'll never stand there again when 2 black guys come charging at you for doing nothing.
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When I watched the replay of that nonsense on ESPN the morning after, they slowed down some portions of it, and in one part, you see a chair clearly get thrown. It comes flying in from the corner, kind of like when Geraldo Rivera got his spontaneous nose job years back. I just don't see the logic in this... "Shit! Everyone's throwing cups, I gotta one up them... Oooh! This chair looks like it'll fly nicely!". There's one person that REALLY needs to be arrested.
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At some point the NBA is going to have to stand up and take some responsibility here.
How much longer can they take teenagers who are physically ready into the draft, pay them millions, make millions off of them, but ignore the fact that doing so slows their developmental growth emotionally? And as soon as they embarrass the NBA (or more importantly, cost the NBA money), they wash their hands of them and want nothing to do with them.
Does anybody here think that suspending Ron Artest is going to keep this from happening again? Is it going to stop the fans? What happened to Detroit - their best competition in the East was just depleted - does that sound like punishment to you? If I'm a Detroit fan who wasn't arrested, I'm feeling pretty good right now.
Isn't there another motionally challenged teenager out there ready to be swept up by the NBA? This will change nothing.
How many of you were able handle $10 Million dollars at age 19, playing with the pressure of playing in front of thousands of people in the stands and millions on TV?
Everybody says "don't feel sorry for them, they're making millions" and I'mnot feeling sorry for them, but the money is the root of this evil, and people are failing to see that.
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Smackie, while I think you make some good points, I'm not going to totally blame money or the NBA if 27 year old Ron Artest is lacking a personal sense of responsibility or any core values. I'm more likely to blame his parents and Ron Artest.
Just a guess, but if the same thing happens to Dirk Nowitzki or hell, even Kobe Bryant, I don't see them attacking a fan.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Just a guess, but if the same thing happens to Dirk Nowitzki or hell, even Kobe Bryant, I don't see them attacking a fan. [/QB]
That's because even Spud Webb could kick Nowitzki's ass and Kobe doesnt need another scandel.
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Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Just a guess, but if the same thing happens to Dirk Nowitzki or hell, even Kobe Bryant, I don't see them attacking a fan. [/b]
That's because even Spud Webb could kick Nowitzki's ass and Kobe doesnt need another scandel. [/QB]
its always about kicking ass with you. isnt it?
i like Dirk Nowitzski, and no, he wouldn't jump into the stands and fight people....i dont even think Allen Iverson would've done that....unless his wife was in the stands.
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I bet before Vernon Maxwell did it, people would say he would never do it......It just depends on the situation.
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lol. Best line of the day. :D
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
i dont even think Allen Iverson would've done that....unless his wife was in the stands.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Just a guess, but if the same thing happens to Dirk Nowitzki or hell, even Kobe Bryant, I don't see them attacking a fan.
If I would have told you two years ago that Kobe would attack a 19 blonde girl, would you have disagreed with me?
And by the way, she was a fan.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
[and rout for her to lose?
not in so many words, but I often feel this way
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
in fact not just human nature almost all animals do it too.
honor is a concept not really understood by animals who behave instinctually, sorry, WRONG...where do you get this shit from? now if you're saying Artest is just a big monkey, well then, you might be on to something there...
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Originally posted by Celeste:
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
[and rout for her to lose?
not in so many words, but I often feel this way [/b]
so does my girlfriend. :)
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Originally posted by Celeste:
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
in fact not just human nature almost all animals do it too.
honor is a concept not really understood by animals who behave instinctually, sorry, WRONG...where do you get this shit from? now if you're saying Artest is just a big monkey, well then, you might be on to something there... [/b]
I'm not a racist, actually
and animals defend thier like species, families, herds, homes etc......you just dont call it honor, but its the same thing...