930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: on May 31, 2006, 05:09:00 pm
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Pete Townshend vs. White Stripes (http://www.aversion.com/news/news_article.cfm?news_id=6599)
Pete Townshend is apparently not a huge fan of The White Stripes.
The Who guitarist has no love for the garage/blues duo, and isnâ??t afraid to show it. The rock veteran told Relix magazine that â??I could probably outdo The White Stripes with a guitar and a fucking drum machine.â?
Townshend will have his chance to show up the Whites this summer, as The Who is set to play several British festivals, including T in the Park, The Oxygen Festival and the Wireless Festival in Leeds in addition to a handful of headlining dates on the continent.
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Jack is too old for Pete...
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everyone's angry at jack white, although this story is a few months old.
Billy Childish hits back at Jack White (http://www.nme.com/news/billy-childish-and-the-headcoats/22394)
Billy Childish has hit back at Jack White's claims that the garage man has plagiarised The White Stripes.
As previously reported, White posted a missive on the band's official site on Monday (February 27).
He said: "As for Billy Childish, Meg and I really feel sorry for you. It must be lonely sitting in all of that garage rock bitterness Billy. You know children, when you take someone else's music and put your own lytics on top of it, it's still called plagiarism.
"Something Mister Childish hasn't learned yet....By the way Billy, we didn't have to have you play with us, and we didn't have to mention you in interviews, we were just being polite in a foreign land. But you're welcome anyways. The bitter garage rocker..."
However, Childish has now slammed White in an open letter, saying: "Though I have undoubtedly angered Jack White, I think it's a bit nasty of him to accuse me of plagiarism merely because his former admiration of my work was not reciprocated."
He added: "It all smacks of jealousy to me. I have a bigger collection of hats, a better moustache, a more blistering guitar sound and a fully developed sense of humour. The only thing I can't understand is why I'm not rich. Yours sincerely, Billy Childish."
Signing off the letter, Childish said: "P.S. I always stay well within the music industries recommended guidelines of never plagiarising more than 50% of my material. But no matter who my influences may be, I would never stoop so low as to rip off Led Zeppelin.
"P.P.S I hope I've gone and offended Led Zeppelin now."
The war of words was started after Childish spoke to the American GQ magazine about The White Stripes.
"I can't listen to that stuff," he explained. "They don't have a good sound...Jack's half into the sound and music, but then he wants to be a pop star as well, so you've got a big problem."
The White Stripes meanwhile are currently concluding the 'Get Behind Me Satan' world tour with dates in Japan.
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Originally posted by The Jesus Nut:
Townshend will have his chance to show up the Whites this summer,
A chance to "show up"?
I think the White Stripes need to show they belong on the same stage as The Who before Pete even has to worry about showing the White Stripes up.
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i've seen both live. and i don't want to sit here and get yelled at for being young or anything, but they are both extremely talented. i think Jack White is one of the finest guitarists that has come out of the last decade. but you obviously can't compare the two.
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I have a bigger collection of hats, a better moustache, a more blistering guitar sound and a fully developed sense of humour.[/b]
this is absolutely true. while i do not hate the white stripes -- in fact, i rather fancy their first couple of records -- they do not hold a candle to the mastery of billy childish and thee headcoats. which, of course, is why billy is not rich.
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The White Stripes would embarass "The Who" circa 2006 mano a mano. Period. Daltrey and Townsend?? They've got the songs, but they're washed up. W/out Moon and Entwhistle, the power and electricity isn't there. Townsend calling out Jack White is like the washed up boxer who knows he's lost it . . . like post-jail Mike Tyson . . . showing bravado almost as a defense mechansim, or requiem, for and energy that once existed, and is gone.
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I wonder if people will still be discussing Jack White in 30 years time?
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One can say a lot of things about the White Hypes, but for God's sake, don't call them "original"! Christ, the Flat Duo Jets and Bantam Rooster pre-dated the WS's guitar/drums 2 piece lineup (AND Crow and the BR drummer can at least play!) The best early review of them I ever read referred to them as "retarded Led Zeppelin". Now, yeah, they're hugely successful, but that's mainly due to their agent/publicity machine guru who meticulously planned every step of their career, starting with breaking them first in the UK. Getting into a "who's better" argument is always ridiculous, but I'd never compare them to The Who.....Billy Childish is a much more apt frame of reference (or the two bands I mentioned above, or The Black Keys, Soledad Brothers, Immortal Lee County Killers, etc.)
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No one really said they were original. They obviously draw influences from a ton of people, and it shows. They also have their own thing going for them. And the fact of the matter is, whether you like the music or not (or rather, whether you're old and losing it or not), Jack White is an extremely talented guitarist. I will go very far to defend him. Boy can shred.
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The originality comment stems from Jack W. accusing Billy Childish of plagiarizing from the Stripes....and BC, much like JW, is an amalgamation of many, many influences....most of which are readily apparent. I guess my point is - for anyone from a band who was accused of blatantly ripping off Led Zeppelin (as was pointed out in practically every review of the WS's debut), to be accusing anyone else of plagiarism - ???
And yes, Jack can play very well....even if his sister is a hopeless hack....
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And BTW, Jack's new band The Raconteurs, gives ample proof of his obvious talent. Frankly, I think their debut album totally overshadows anything the White Stripes have ever done....which, to my way of thinking, shows that Jack has been holding himself down the past few years in playing with his sister/wife/ex-wife/whatever their relationship may be......
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It would appear that Noel Gallagher has setup shop as a conslutant on how to get one's name in the press by creating a feud...
People could be talking about Jack White in 30 years if he can prove that he's got more up his sleeve than just the White Stripes. "White Blood Cells" is a solid songwriting effort with tunage that could be easily be done in variety of ways.
The Who weren't shy about pulling a few stunts in their day either.
And there is nothing wrong with breaking in UK first, there are US bands whose greatest popularity is overseas...
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
[QB] It would appear that Noel Gallagher has setup shop as a conslutant on how to get one's name in the press by creating a feud...
-amen... before i saw the name, i was sure it was a quote from a gallagher
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So do you think this reflects:
a. the lack of fine guitarists in the last decade
b. your limited exposure to music
c. the fact that you've probably been listening to music seriously for way less than a decade.
???
Originally posted by you be betty:
i think Jack White is one of the finest guitarists that has come out of the last decade.
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Amen to that.
Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by The Jesus Nut:
Townshend will have his chance to show up the Whites this summer,
A chance to "show up"?
I think the White Stripes need to show they belong on the same stage as The Who before Pete even has to worry about showing the White Stripes up. [/b]
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"And there is nothing wrong with breaking in UK first, there are US bands whose greatest popularity is overseas..."
No, there isn't....however, I think the whole strategy of breaking the White Stripes first in the UK was planned to take maximum advantage of the Jack/Meg White mystery (Are they brother & sister, husband & wife, original & clone?, etc., etc., etc.), which they played up to the hilt - in the land where sleazy tabloids outnumber legit newspapers by about a 10-to-1 margin. (Anybody remember the UK press singlehandedly killing off Jerry Lee Lewis' career when they discovered he married his 12 or 13 year old cousin?)
It was fucking brilliant strategy, and had absolutely nothing to do with their music to boot! Prior to their first UK tour, they were lucky if their first CD was even available at Tower Records. (I first saw it at Reptilian in Baltimore, where Chris showed me it and said -"this is something that might be up your alley - very primitive punk blues from Detroit"). From that beginning to now being challenged by Pete Townshend.....great work if you can get it!!!
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Sorry, I wasn't alive in 1957.
Originally posted by JohnO:
(Anybody remember the UK press singlehandedly killing off Jerry Lee Lewis' career when they discovered he married his 12 or 13 year old cousin?)
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word.
and yeah, people will be talking about jack white in 30 years time. for the record, when the hell did the who and/or pete townsend make anything worth talking about? who was president at the time? please don't talk to me about any of this solo townsend tripe. maybe the cut he did with vedder. maybe.
The White Stripes would embarass "The Who" circa 2006 mano a mano. Period. Daltrey and Townsend?? They've got the songs, but they're washed up. W/out Moon and Entwhistle, the power and electricity isn't there. Townsend calling out Jack White is like the washed up boxer who knows he's lost it . . . like post-jail Mike Tyson . . . showing bravado almost as a defense mechansim, or requiem, for and energy that once existed, and is gone.
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excuse me, when was the last time they made anything worth talking about?
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So who are the best new guitarists...in terms of shred-ability?
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I was thinking...since when does shred-ability define who is a talented guitarist?
Originally posted by The Jesus Nut:
So who are the best new guitarists...in terms of shred-ability?
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Yngwie Fucking Malmsteen
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Originally posted by you be betty:
No one really said they were original. They obviously draw influences from a ton of people, and it shows. They also have their own thing going for them. And the fact of the matter is, whether you like the music or not (or rather, whether you're old and losing it or not), Jack White is an extremely talented guitarist. I will go very far to defend him. Boy can shred.
I don't think being an extremely talented guitarist really means all that much; go into any Guitar Center and you'll find plenty of "boys that can shred." The question is the songs that you can write with that ability, and I think that the original point made is the most valid - White seems to have half a mind toward his pop culture persona, and half towards his music. I'd actually contend that the Raconteurs record is the banner example of that fact, contrary to what somebody said previously that it was a shining achievement. I see it more as a demonstration of White's limitations, and the failure to successfully work with another songwriter to craft a cohesive album. Certain songs worked majestically. Others...not.
Granted, White's work on the Loretta Lynn record was quite brilliant. But I still want to hear him do more with his guitar than make it sound like an organ and sing blues riffs on top of it.
Plus, can we remember that "Get Behind Me Satan" is probably easily the White Stripes worst record - notably, also the first one to come out when White was a pseudo-celebrity?
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Yngwie Fucking Malmsteen
or these guys:
<img src="http://billtmiller.com/branca/glenngrinz.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/nl/thumb/3/33/Ma1.jpg/141px-Ma1.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://www.thegodetroit.com/uploaded_images/guitarist-784312.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Or Rick Nielsen
<img src="http://www.pbgadget.com/images/europe/ams-rn5~c.jpg" alt=" - " />
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I'd hardly call Nielsen or Malmsteen NEW.
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I remember first hearing about the White Stripes while back in Detroit in 2001 because of a big New Years Eve gig that they were involved with. A couple months later they landed at the Black Cat and I was immediately struck by the Led Zep comparison, which I didn't hold against them as it was a killer show and great records. Wasn't really following their career per say but was surprised by the "sudden" success of White Blood Cells.
At the Ottobar there is a poster for the White Stripes gig at the old Ottobar which indicates how far they have come, that and friends in Detroit miss the days of when they played The Stink.
I'm a bit embarrassed to say that I may have talked to Jack when he was still in The Go which was the same time when The White Stripes were just starting. It wasn't til years later that I realized he was actually in The Go didn't make that connection right away. If it was Jack. as there were two guitarists in The Go and the memory is a bit fuzzy, he was an incredibly normal humble guy...
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Originally posted by The Jesus Nut:
So who are the best new guitarists...in terms of shred-ability?
Shredding is out. It's seen as too boorish and manly in this new age of Death Cab For Cutie asexual wussy-rock.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Shredding is out. It's seen as too boorish and manly in this new age of Death Cab For Cutie asexual wussy-rock.
no offense, but when has pure shred-ability been a crucial factor for an indie guitarist (ie, how is that any different now)?
it seems like "alternative" guitar music has always been the "alternative" to shredders and ultimate instrument proficiency ... punk rock was a reaction to bloated prog guitars, and all the big shredders of the 80s (dudes like satriani) weren't exactly embraced by indie rock
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Originally posted by callat703:
Originally posted by you be betty:
No one really said they were original. They obviously draw influences from a ton of people, and it shows. They also have their own thing going for them. And the fact of the matter is, whether you like the music or not (or rather, whether you're old and losing it or not), Jack White is an extremely talented guitarist. I will go very far to defend him. Boy can shred.
I don't think being an extremely talented guitarist really means all that much; go into any Guitar Center and you'll find plenty of "boys that can shred." The question is the songs that you can write with that ability, and I think that the original point made is the most valid - White seems to have half a mind toward his pop culture persona, and half towards his music. I'd actually contend that the Raconteurs record is the banner example of that fact, contrary to what somebody said previously that it was a shining achievement. I see it more as a demonstration of White's limitations, and the failure to successfully work with another songwriter to craft a cohesive album. Certain songs worked majestically. Others...not.
Granted, White's work on the Loretta Lynn record was quite brilliant. But I still want to hear him do more with his guitar than make it sound like an organ and sing blues riffs on top of it.
Plus, can we remember that "Get Behind Me Satan" is probably easily the White Stripes worst record - notably, also the first one to come out when White was a pseudo-celebrity? [/b]
But you just did say he worked brilliantly with Loretta. Meaning yes, he can work with other artists to make a great album...maybe he just hasn't found the right combination yet?
The Stripes were put together when Jack started fooling around on a guitar and had Meg keep a beat quite childishly in their attic. The unfortunate thing that we're seeing after five albums is that there is only so much you can do with bluesy riffs and the same drum beat. Their last album was a little bit of a failed attempt at trying something new. So I think the only things we've proved here are the limitations of the group (and maybe Jack found some of these with the Raconteurs? i don't know; i think it's a pretty good album), rather than that Jack is a bad artist.
and in conclusion, Pete Townshend should shut his fucking mouth. The Who were a great group too, but they also seemed limited to one sort of sound throughout their career. so i don't really know why he's so bitter.
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The Who seemed limited to one sort of sound? What??!
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Originally posted by Chaz Nakatestes, Breaststroking Guy:
So do you think this reflects:
a. the lack of fine guitarists in the last decade
b. your limited exposure to music
c. the fact that you've probably been listening to music seriously for way less than a decade.
???
Originally posted by you be betty:
i think Jack White is one of the finest guitarists that has come out of the last decade.
[/b]
the answer would be A. the thing that really bothers me the most about Fall Out Boy, for example, is their focus on the wrong aspects of the act. their live show lets most elements of the sound (guitarwork, etc) suffer so they can make some 12 year olds scream by doing flips on top of their drumset or whatever.
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Originally posted by callat703:
The Who seemed limited to one sort of sound? What??!
i mean, they had a trademark sound. the white stripes have a different trademark sound. and then you look at other groups like no doubt for example, who have changed their sound on every record. it's not a bad thing at all, i just don't see how one musician could criticize another for having that...
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Originally posted by you be betty:
Originally posted by Chaz Nakatestes, Breaststroking Guy:
So do you think this reflects:
a. the lack of fine guitarists in the last decade
b. your limited exposure to music
c. the fact that you've probably been listening to music seriously for way less than a decade.
???
Originally posted by you be betty:
i think Jack White is one of the finest guitarists that has come out of the last decade.
[/b]
the answer would be A. the thing that really bothers me the most about Fall Out Boy, for example, is their focus on the wrong aspects of the act. their live show lets most elements of the sound (guitarwork, etc) suffer so they can make some 12 year olds scream by doing flips on top of their drumset or whatever. [/b]
Without meaning to offend...if your point of reference is Fall Out Boy, I think it might trend toward B. There are some sick guitar players out there that can "out-shred" Jack White. For a more mainstream example, take a band like Coheed & Cambria - those dudes can play. A lot of the ridiculous guitar players are playing other kinds of music - metal, hardcore, grindcore; they aren't doing indie rock.
But other examples from more mainstread rock in the last ten years? Billy Corgan; Mike Mccready; John Frusciante; The Edge...
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Originally posted by you be betty:
Originally posted by callat703:
The Who seemed limited to one sort of sound? What??!
i mean, they had a trademark sound. the white stripes have a different trademark sound. and then you look at other groups like no doubt for example, who have changed their sound on every record. it's not a bad thing at all, i just don't see how one musician could criticize another for having that... [/b]
Tommy? Quadrophenia?
Does "Baba O'Reilly" sound like "Happy Jack" or "Acid Queen?" Or even "My Generation?"
I think the Who were a pretty amazingly versatile band.
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa08:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Shredding is out. It's seen as too boorish and manly in this new age of Death Cab For Cutie asexual wussy-rock.
no offense, but when has pure shred-ability been a crucial factor for an indie guitarist (ie, how is that any different now)?
it seems like "alternative" guitar music has always been the "alternative" to shredders and ultimate instrument proficiency ... punk rock was a reaction to bloated prog guitars, and all the big shredders of the 80s (dudes like satriani) weren't exactly embraced by indie rock [/b]
Indie rock aside -- the great debate over which guitarist is the greatest seems to have vanished from the cultural zeitgeist. Back in the day, all the kids used to argue whether Jimmy Page was better than Clapton; whether Eddie Van Halen or Stevie Ray Vaughan was better, or if Jeff Beck was better than all of them. Who's around now? That Buckethead dude? Tom Morello? Frusciante? Please.... Gone are the days when the guitar gods roamed the earth.
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Originally posted by callat703:
Originally posted by you be betty:
Originally posted by Chaz Nakatestes, Breaststroking Guy:
So do you think this reflects:
a. the lack of fine guitarists in the last decade
b. your limited exposure to music
c. the fact that you've probably been listening to music seriously for way less than a decade.
???
Originally posted by you be betty:
i think Jack White is one of the finest guitarists that has come out of the last decade.
[/b]
the answer would be A. the thing that really bothers me the most about Fall Out Boy, for example, is their focus on the wrong aspects of the act. their live show lets most elements of the sound (guitarwork, etc) suffer so they can make some 12 year olds scream by doing flips on top of their drumset or whatever. [/b]
Without meaning to offend...if your point of reference is Fall Out Boy, I think it might trend toward B. There are some sick guitar players out there that can "out-shred" Jack White. For a more mainstream example, take a band like Coheed & Cambria - those dudes can play. A lot of the ridiculous guitar players are playing other kinds of music - metal, hardcore, grindcore; they aren't doing indie rock.
But other examples from more mainstread rock in the last ten years? Billy Corgan; Mike Mccready; John Frusciante; The Edge... [/b]
lack of fine guitarists in mainstream rock. there you go. there are a few, but i just don't see it a lot anymore...the value of a solid guitarist. i don't know, maybe i'm limited.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Back in the day, all the kids used to argue ...
only losers listen to rock now, cool kids listen to shitty rap music
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Gone are the days when the guitar gods roamed the earth. [/QB]
thank you for articulating for me.
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Originally posted by callat703:
Originally posted by you be betty:
Originally posted by callat703:
The Who seemed limited to one sort of sound? What??!
i mean, they had a trademark sound. the white stripes have a different trademark sound. and then you look at other groups like no doubt for example, who have changed their sound on every record. it's not a bad thing at all, i just don't see how one musician could criticize another for having that... [/b]
Tommy? Quadrophenia?
Does "Baba O'Reilly" sound like "Happy Jack" or "Acid Queen?" Or even "My Generation?"
I think the Who were a pretty amazingly versatile band. [/b]
they WERE, but would you argue that they have one trademark sound? musician-on-musician, Jack has proved versatility too through other projects.
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I wouldn't argue that the Who have a trademark sound. I couldn't begin to describe the Who in a sentence or two, but I think I could do that for the White Stripes, and for Jack White.
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Originally posted by callat703:
I wouldn't argue that the Who have a trademark sound. I couldn't begin to describe the Who in a sentence or two, but I think I could do that for the White Stripes.
i'd have to agree with this ... just a quick browse through a "best of" who comp shows a lot of remarkably diverse "sounds" from different eras ... it'd be easy to pin their sound down as kind of power pop from 65-67, but after that they branched out a lot ... much more diverse than most seminal bands
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you're right. and so, what do we conclude?
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Originally posted by you be betty:
you're right. and so, what do we conclude?
that you're wrong. ;)
i actually don't remember what we were arguing about
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I think it's that the White Stripes are, so far, one trick ponies.
These arguments are completely pointless, though. The Who have a shitload of time on their side, as well as the added benefit of having been creating rock during it's infancy (or at least it's toddler-hood).
Not that I think the White Stripes will be remembered like the Who are/will be, but hindsight is 20/20 on a bands impact and longevity. Besides, how's a band supposed to break any boundaries when all of they're all already been broken?
Originally posted by HoyaSaxa08:
Originally posted by you be betty:
you're right. and so, what do we conclude?
that you're wrong. ;)
i actually don't remember what we were arguing about [/b]
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Originally posted by nkotb:
These arguments are completely pointless, though. Originally posted by HoyaSaxa08:
Originally posted by you be betty:
you're right. and so, what do we conclude?
that you're wrong. ;)
i actually don't remember what we were arguing about [/b]
[/b]
Not "completely pointless," as this has kept me amused at work for the last 30 minutes. And that, my friends, is a completely worthwhile point.
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want to fill out a biology chart for me next?
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this maybe a lame attempt at stirring it up again but...
the last guitarists that were "godz" to me were Will Sergeant then Johnny Marr then John Squire... coinciding with the arrival of Brit Pop it's been the songwriting and talent of the entire group that has been of most importance to me. can't honestly think of one guitarist that has made me want to listen to a particular group. for me now a days it's all about the drummer especially for live settings.
ironic that a discussing about "shedding guitarist" involves townshend who is pretty much just a rhythm guitar play with the odd lead line..
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Originally posted by Chaz Nakatestes, Breaststroking Guy:
So do you think this reflects:
a. the lack of fine guitarists in the last decade
b. your limited exposure to music
c. the fact that you've probably been listening to music seriously for way less than a decade.
???
Originally posted by you be betty:
i think Jack White is one of the finest guitarists that has come out of the last decade.
[/b]
so rhett
who ARE the best guitarists to come out of the last decade?
since you clearly have more exposure to music, more discerning taste AND have been actively seeking out all sorts of music since you were conceived.....
so since 1995....name your top 5.
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa08:
Originally posted by callat703:
I wouldn't argue that the Who have a trademark sound. I couldn't begin to describe the Who in a sentence or two, but I think I could do that for the White Stripes.
i'd have to agree with this ... just a quick browse through a "best of" who comp shows a lot of remarkably diverse "sounds" from different eras ... it'd be easy to pin their sound down as kind of power pop from 65-67, but after that they branched out a lot ... much more diverse than most seminal bands [/b]
i bet if the who came out now, many people on this board would claim them to be crap.
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oh no doubt. they broke new ground at the time, and that ground has already been broken. there isn't even a whole lot of remaining ground to break anymore, is there?
i sometimes worry about the fate of music--even art, in general. because once it's all been said and done...what can you do?
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Originally posted by you be betty:
i sometimes worry about the fate of music--even art, in general. because once it's all been said and done...what can you do?
people have been saying this for hundreds of years.
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yes, but a hundred years ago they weren't living in a digital age. seriously...we can re-create nearly everything now, down to a tee. just a thought.
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Originally posted by you be betty:
oh no doubt. they broke new ground at the time, and that ground has already been broken. there isn't even a whole lot of remaining ground to break anymore, is there?
i sometimes worry about the fate of music--even art, in general. because once it's all been said and done...what can you do?
there is no such thing as art anymore. . .i think the dadaists pretty much proved that.
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New things always pop up. They aren't always new things, but ways of making people look at the same things in different ways.
Go to the Warehouse and see one of those "washboard and saucepan" shows that Snailhook puts on. Plenty of new and different stuff is out there, it's just that most people won't find it until it's on Seth Cohen's iPod.
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Not that I honestly think nothing new will ever happen in the world of rock 'n roll, but you have to balance innovation with mass appeal, I think. Sure, new things are being done; look at a lot of the improv and freeform music that snailhook books. But unless people hear it and then appreciate and accept it into the mainstream, does it really matter in the grand scheme of things?
I'm asking in hopes of getting some thoughts, because personally I find it to be a mixed bag.
Originally posted by callat703:
Originally posted by you be betty:
i sometimes worry about the fate of music--even art, in general. because once it's all been said and done...what can you do?
people have been saying this for hundreds of years. [/b]
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
it's just that most people won't find it until it's on Seth Cohen's iPod.
haha, who's seth cohen?
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Originally posted by the sonick:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
it's just that most people won't find it until it's on Seth Cohen's iPod.
haha, who's seth cohen? [/b]
He's this dude in California
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Originally posted by the sonick:
i bet if the who came out now, many people on this board would claim them to be crap.
really? i think there's a lot of power pop fans on this board, and early who is basically quintessential power pop ... not sure what you mean here
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i think one of the main things it's doing is forging an even further separation between the "mainstream" and the "non mainstream," which makes it even harder for new ideas to appear in the forefront because we've become so unaccepting of stuff like that.
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Off of the top of my head, in no particular order:
Jason Isbell, Drive By Truckers
Grant Tye from Robbie Fulks' band (though Robbie Fulks is an amazing acoustic picker in his own right)
Vinicius Cantuaria
Junior Brown
Cody Kilby from Ricky Skaggs and Kentucky Thunder (though he doesn't touch Ricky Skaggs' mandolin playing)
Originally posted by the sonick:
Originally posted by Chaz Nakatestes, Breaststroking Guy:
So do you think this reflects:
a. the lack of fine guitarists in the last decade
b. your limited exposure to music
c. the fact that you've probably been listening to music seriously for way less than a decade.
???
Originally posted by you be betty:
i think Jack White is one of the finest guitarists that has come out of the last decade.
[/b]
so rhett
who ARE the best guitarists to come out of the last decade?
since you clearly have more exposure to music, more discerning taste AND have been actively seeking out all sorts of music since you were conceived.....
so since 1995....name your top 5. [/b]
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa08:
Originally posted by the sonick:
i bet if the who came out now, many people on this board would claim them to be crap.
really? i think there's a lot of power pop fans on this board, and early who is basically quintessential power pop ... not sure what you mean here [/b]
i didnt say everyone would bash em.
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Originally posted by Chaz Nakatestes, Breaststroking Guy:
Off of the top of my head, in no particular order:
Jason Isbell, Drive By Truckers
Grant Tye from Robbie Fulks' band (though Robbie Fulks is an amazing acoustic picker in his own right)
Vinicius Cantuaria
Junior Brown
Cody Kilby from Ricky Skaggs and Kentucky Thunder (though he doesn't touch Ricky Skaggs' mandolin playing)
i'll give you the DBT guy...maybe in a tie.
Junior Brown ???
so either
A) you are hard of hearing
b) you like name dropping Brazilian guitarists
c) you havent closely listened to jack white.
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa08:
Originally posted by the sonick:
i bet if the who came out now, many people on this board would claim them to be crap.
really? i think there's a lot of power pop fans on this board, and early who is basically quintessential power pop ... not sure what you mean here [/b]
actually, i think lots of people would say they are ripping off GBV. :)
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
actually, i think lots of people would say they are ripping off GBV. :)
maybe just one :D
http://www.last.fm/user/pdxpollard/ (http://www.last.fm/user/pdxpollard/)
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Originally posted by you be betty:
i think one of the main things it's doing is forging an even further separation between the "mainstream" and the "non mainstream," which makes it even harder for new ideas to appear in the forefront because we've become so unaccepting of stuff like that.
Speaking of Mainstream and older rock, Mainstream music was a much, much different animal back then than it is now. There use to be lots of great music and deep album tracks often aired on Mainstream radio or in other media, even though we had much less of it (different forms of media). Now it's so filtered that we are forced to search for the sort of music that any of us personally want to hear rather than what the media would prefer us to hear. Yes, there was still an incredible amount of dirty controls back then but they tended to offer us music that was closer to what the rockers wanted to hear. I may not have worded that all that well but I suspect you get my idea.
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Originally posted by you be betty:
i think one of the main things it's doing is forging an even further separation between the "mainstream" and the "non mainstream," which makes it even harder for new ideas to appear in the forefront because we've become so unaccepting of stuff like that.
That's a cyclical thing. Eventually people get tired of the mainstream styles and then the non-mainstream comes to the fore, becomes the new mainstream, wash, rinse, repeat...
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by you be betty:
i think one of the main things it's doing is forging an even further separation between the "mainstream" and the "non mainstream," which makes it even harder for new ideas to appear in the forefront because we've become so unaccepting of stuff like that.
That's a cyclical thing. Eventually people get tired of the mainstream styles and then the non-mainstream comes to the fore, becomes the new mainstream, wash, rinse, repeat... [/b]
Sounds exactly like Benjamin Britton's theory of revolution. But I agree.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
then the non-mainstream comes to the fore, becomes the new mainstream
wait for it .......
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Okay, guitarists since '95?
Are we talking like killer lead players, or just great guitarists that I rank ahead of Jack White?
in no order:
*Josh Garza of the Secret Machines
*Jonny Greenwood of Radiohead (The Bends was released in '95, and this my be one of my favorite guitar records of all time; not to mention OK Computer in '97)
*Matthew Bellamy of MUSE
*Tom Morello of Rage Against the Machine
*Efrim Menuck of Godspeed You Black Emperor
*Travis Stever/Claudio Sanchez of Coheed & Cambria
*Bill Kelliher of Mastodon
*Billy Corgan
*Josh Homme of Queens of the Stone Age
and as much as I hate them, the dude from the Darkness can shred.
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Originally posted by callat703:
Okay, guitarists since '95?
Are we talking like killer lead players, or just great guitarists that I rank ahead of Jack White?
in no order:
*Josh Garza of the Secret Machines
*Jonny Greenwood of Radiohead (The Bends was released in '95, and this my be one of my favorite guitar records of all time; not to mention OK Computer in '97)
*Matthew Bellamy of MUSE
*Tom Morello of Rage Against the Machine
*Efrim Menuck of Godspeed You Black Emperor
*Travis Stever/Claudio Sanchez of Coheed & Cambria
*Bill Kelliher of Mastodon
*Billy Corgan
*Josh Homme of Queens of the Stone Age
and as much as I hate them, the dude from the Darkness can shred.
billy , johnny and tom were before 1995
but in the 90s.
and yes, Matthew Bellamy is better than Jack White, and so is Johnny Greenwood.
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Originally posted by callat703:
Okay, guitarists since '95?
Are we talking like killer lead players, or just great guitarists that I rank ahead of Jack White?
in no order:
*Josh Garza of the Secret Machines
*Jonny Greenwood of Radiohead (The Bends was released in '95, and this my be one of my favorite guitar records of all time; not to mention OK Computer in '97)
*Matthew Bellamy of MUSE
*Tom Morello of Rage Against the Machine
*Efrim Menuck of Godspeed You Black Emperor
*Travis Stever/Claudio Sanchez of Coheed & Cambria
*Bill Kelliher of Mastodon
*Billy Corgan
*Josh Homme of Queens of the Stone Age
and as much as I hate them, the dude from the Darkness can shred.
billy , johnny and tom were before 1995
but in the 90s.
and yes, Matthew Bellamy is better than Jack White, and so is Johnny Greenwood.
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Originally posted by the sonick:
[/qb]
billy , johnny and tom were before 1995
but in the 90s.
and yes, Matthew Bellamy is better than Jack White, and so is Johnny Greenwood. [/QB][/QUOTE]
well, yes, they had albums before '95, but they also had killer guitar records after '95. Same with John Frusciante.
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Man, I'm not even going to get caught in this trap. There were plenty of truly great guitarists in the past covering all genres just as there are plenty today and we will continue to spawn plenty more of them.
What we sometimes fail to remember is that generations, or groups of people, change and they too want their music in their moment and some of those will be the very ones to, at some point, be added to someone's list of greats.
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Originally posted by the sonick:
and yes, Matthew Bellamy is better than Jack White, and so is Johnny Greenwood.
I'm sorry, but, according to authoritative sources (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5937559/the_100_greatest_guitarists_of_all_time), Johnny Greenwood is more than 40 spots behind Jack White. Matt Bellamy doesn't even rank.
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and back to the topic at hand... is pete's memory fading or what. because aren't the scoop releases essential pete and drum machines, if not they are pretty darn close.
and pete really needs to put his money where his mouth on this one and just release this white stripes defeating record... someone needs to really wind him up like they did neil young recently..
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by the sonick:
and yes, Matthew Bellamy is better than Jack White, and so is Johnny Greenwood.
I'm sorry, but, according to authoritative sources (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5937559/the_100_greatest_guitarists_of_all_time), Johnny Greenwood is more than 40 spots behind Jack White. Matt Bellamy doesn't even rank. [/b]
This list was the reason I stopped reading Rolling Stone all together. Its fucking awful.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by the sonick:
and yes, Matthew Bellamy is better than Jack White, and so is Johnny Greenwood.
I'm sorry, but, according to authoritative sources (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5937559/the_100_greatest_guitarists_of_all_time), Johnny Greenwood is more than 40 spots behind Jack White. Matt Bellamy doesn't even rank. [/b]
haha. well that also means that jack white IS the best guitarist in the last 10 years!!!!
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Back in the day...
Back in the day alert!
Back in the day alert!
Penalty: 15 yards for overusage of stale rap phraseology.
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Originally posted by The Jesus Nut:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Back in the day
Back in the day alert!
Back in the day alert!
Penalty: 15 yards for overusage of this rap phraseology. [/b]
My comment was directed toward the younger demographic of the board, so I felt it best to utilize some of the age-appropriate vernacular to reinforce my position as a dope and fly fellow.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
so I felt it best to utilize some of the age-appropriate vernacular to reinforce my position as a dope and fly fellow.
you are a true master of the idiom
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
My comment was directed toward the younger demographic of the board, so I felt it best to utilize some of the age-appropriate vernacular to reinforce my position as a dope and fly fellow.
Well you'd best watch it from here on, or I'll hafta bust a cap in yo ass dawg.
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Originally posted by The Jesus Nut:
Well you'd best watch it from here on, or I'll hafta bust a cap in yo ass dawg.
Word to your mother.
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i'm surprised no one has mentioned Chris Cheney of The Living End. holy fuck.
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Well he was #6 on my list. But Sonick only asked for five. Sorry.
Originally posted by you be betty:
i'm surprised no one has mentioned Chris Cheney of The Living End. holy fuck.
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I can't believe this conversation is taking place. Get back to me in 10 or 20 years and then we can talk about whether or not we even mention Jack White and The Who in the same fucking breath.
Come to your freaking senses people.
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Go to the Warehouse and see one of those "washboard and saucepan" shows that Snailhook puts on. Plenty of new and different stuff is out there, it's just that most people won't find it until it's on Seth Cohen's iPod.[/b]
hallelujah! thanks for mentioning that, ggw. the reason i book these shows is so people in dc can see something other than the same old emo and indie rock that gets shoved down our throats.
at the risk of sounding like a complete asshole elitist and assuming i'll get flamed for saying this, but most people on this board have an incredibly limited musical palette (not all, but a lot). most of the "great" guitarists mentioned so far are absolute jokes. i think rhett nakatestes' list is interesting, but still limited to his beloved alt-country. the majority of the current great guitarists are not found in the indie rock or punk world. they can be found in obscure bands playing challenging experimental music to avant-jazz ensembles to grindmetal to acoustic fingerpicking (in fact, i regularly book acoustic guitarists that make jack white sound like ashlee simpson).
i think jack white's greatest gifts are his vocals and songwriting. he's a decent-to-good guitarist, but far from excellent.
and even considering comparing the who to the white stripes is idiotic. as is saying they ripped off zeppelin, which is lazy journalism (like how people say interpol rips off joy division). the white stripes came out of a fertile detroit garage rock scene, and they transcended it not because they were/are better than their elders/peers (the dirtbombs, the gories, bantam rooster, the clone defects, etc.), but because they devised an intriguing rock-via-art shtick and self-mythology that stuck with the kids. i remember seeing them live for the first time in 2000 when they were first coming up and thinking that they were good, but will probably achieve massive success because they had "the look."
as far as dropping names, i'll just say that nels cline over the past decade blows away anybody mentioned so far, regarding breadth of style and balls. jack rose, glenn jones, tom carter, ben chasny, michio kurihara, jim o'rourke, mick turner, harris newman, nick saloman, wayne rogers, makoto kawabata, richard youngs, alan licht, loren mazzacane connors, yanni papadopoulos...look 'em up...
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Originally posted by snailhook:
hallelujah! thanks for mentioning that, ggw. the reason i book these shows is so people in dc can see something other than the same old emo and indie rock that gets shoved down our throats.
at the risk of sounding like a complete asshole elitist and assuming i'll get flamed for saying this, but most people on this board have an incredibly limited musical palette (not all, but a lot). most of the "great" guitarists mentioned so far are absolute jokes. i think rhett nakatestes' list is interesting, but still limited to his beloved alt-country. the majority of the current great guitarists are not found in the indie rock or punk world. they can be found in obscure bands playing challenging experimental music to avant-jazz ensembles to grindmetal to acoustic fingerpicking (in fact, i regularly book acoustic guitarists that make jack white sound like ashlee simpson).
i think jack white's greatest gifts are his vocals and songwriting. he's a decent-to-good guitarist, but far from excellent.
and even considering comparing the who to the white stripes is idiotic. as is saying they ripped off zeppelin, which is lazy journalism (like how people say interpol rips off joy division). the white stripes came out of a fertile detroit garage rock scene, and they transcended it not because they were/are better than their elders/peers (the dirtbombs, the gories, bantam rooster, the clone defects, etc.), but because they devised an intriguing rock-via-art shtick and self-mythology that stuck with the kids. i remember seeing them live for the first time in 2000 when they were first coming up and thinking that they were good, but will probably achieve massive success because they had "the look."
as far as dropping names, i'll just say that nels cline over the past decade blows away anybody mentioned so far, regarding breadth of style and balls. jack rose, glenn jones, tom carter, ben chasny, michio kurihara, jim o'rourke, mick turner, harris newman, nick saloman, wayne rogers, makoto kawabata, richard youngs, alan licht, loren mazzacane connors, yanni papadopoulos...look 'em up...
Snailhook deserves an honorary Ph.D in rock & roll.
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Originally posted by Chaz, Rhett Miller Breastroking Pro:
I can't believe this conversation is taking place. Get back to me in 10 or 20 years and then we can talk about whether or not we even mention Jack White and The Who in the same fucking breath.
Come to your freaking senses people.
HE STARTED IT!!!!
<img src="http://gallery.redferns.com/gallery_2/gallery_images/600_pixel_images/MPU002_Pete_TOWNSEND.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Originally posted by snailhook:
Go to the Warehouse and see one of those "washboard and saucepan" shows that Snailhook puts on. Plenty of new and different stuff is out there, it's just that most people won't find it until it's on Seth Cohen's iPod.[/b]
most of the "great" guitarists mentioned so far are absolute jokes. i think rhett nakatestes' list is interesting, but still limited to his beloved alt-country. the majority of the current great guitarists are not found in the indie rock or punk world. they can be found in obscure bands playing challenging experimental music to avant-jazz ensembles to grindmetal to acoustic fingerpicking [/b]
I think great still remains relative. It all depends on what you're looking for in music. For innovative and challenging guitar work, yes - most new, incredible players are going to be found in the realm of music where things are still innovative and challenging. But I don't think that makes the other guitarists mentioned an absolute joke.
I also don't think comparing bands to one another is idiotic. Yes, it may be lazy journalism, but at the same time, points of reference are what allow people some measure of insight into sound. Describing sound with words is a problem to begin with - often times the best way that somebody is really going to understand what you're trying to say is if you can provide some way of connecting it to what they know. Of course the White Stripes are doing more than borrowing from Zeppelin, and came out of a bigger scene. But speaking to your average joe, if you reference the late '90s early '00s Detroit scene, nobody is going to have a fucking clue of what you're talking about.
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Actually, I think HE started it.
<img src="http://archive.bathfringe.co.uk/past/fringe99/images/billy.JPG" alt=" - " />
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Originally posted by callat703:
Okay, guitarists since '95?
Are we talking like killer lead players, or just great guitarists that I rank ahead of Jack White?
in no order:
*Josh Garza of the Secret Machines
Josh is their drummer, next.
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Originally posted by TheREALHunter:
Originally posted by callat703:
Okay, guitarists since '95?
Are we talking like killer lead players, or just great guitarists that I rank ahead of Jack White?
in no order:
*Josh Garza of the Secret Machines
Josh is their drummer, next. [/b]
Yes, you're absolutely right. My mistake. I mean Ben Curtis.
I blame the All Music Guide's bio:
"Revealing a sharp songwriting instinct and unfolding a distinct indie rock influence, Secret Machines unveil singular scenarios and refined tunes within the alternative pop/rock scene. Drummer Benjamin Curtis, Josh Garza, and Brandon Curtis (vocals, bass) formed Secret Machines in the midst of summer of 2000, in Dallas, TX."
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Originally posted by callat703:
Yes, you're absolutely right. My mistake. I mean Ben Curtis.
this ben curtis?
<img src="http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0Je5qi31ppELzcBThWjzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NDgyNWN0BHNlYwNwcm9m/SIG=12raj2n9q/EXP=1151084599/**http%3a//www.skytowercasino.com/images/british_open_winner_ben-curtis.jpg" alt=" - " />
this ben curtis will get you pot though-
<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/33/Steve_Dell_Ad.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Originally posted by callat703:
Originally posted by TheREALHunter:
Originally posted by callat703:
Okay, guitarists since '95?
Are we talking like killer lead players, or just great guitarists that I rank ahead of Jack White?
in no order:
*Josh Garza of the Secret Machines
Josh is their drummer, next. [/b]
Yes, you're absolutely right. My mistake. I mean Ben Curtis.
I blame the All Music Guide's bio:
"Revealing a sharp songwriting instinct and unfolding a distinct indie rock influence, Secret Machines unveil singular scenarios and refined tunes within the alternative pop/rock scene. Drummer Benjamin Curtis, Josh Garza, and Brandon Curtis (vocals, bass) formed Secret Machines in the midst of summer of 2000, in Dallas, TX." [/b]
Where AMG got it wrong is that Ben Curtis WAS the drummer for UFOFU and for Tripping Daisy at one point, just not Secret Machines.
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Yeah, I just got confused in how they wrote it. Good catch - thanks for the correction.