930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: walkonby on November 30, 2004, 04:54:00 pm
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dare do i touch this, but i've been to quite a few shows at both places and both have their positives and negatives . . . but i honestly can't tell which place i rather see a show. two totally different avenues of music, but for attitudes, food, bar quailty, food quality, music sound, and in an area where i "may" not get robbed and killed just to see a show, birchmere wins by a nose. boths places rule, and i can't decide.
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birchmere isn't very RnR though, is it?
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The Birchere is OK for folkie shows (I saw Loudon Wainwright and Greg Brown there and it was teriffic) but in order to get a good seat, you're generally stuck there early at dinnertime, to eat their very overpriced and mediocre food. If the food was better and/or cheaper I would like it a lot more.
But, it's really an apples/oranges question...for some acts you want sit-down quiet, for some you want to move around and dance.
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VERY apples and oranges comparison. 85% of the time, I'd want to see a band at 9:30. There are occasional bands that are well-served by the seated environment at the Shushmere. But I never want to eat there, so I usually get crappy seats. I find I'm usually more involved in a show if I'm standing, can dance or bounce a bit, and have the option of a few beers (which you can do at Birchmere, but I'm inevitably driving...so for weekends, not optimal).
And based on the types of acts booked at each and where each is located, I go to 9:30 about 20-25 times a year, and the Birchmere maybe once or twice.
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the food at 9.30 is much better. it is not a comfortable place to eat, but if there is no choice and dinner has to be at 9.30, the food is tasty.
birchmere has nice seats but yuckie food.
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Originally posted by Bags:
VERY apples and oranges comparison.
Yea, you are right, its like comparing a concert venue and err, well, another concert venue. It is so hard to compare such different things.
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Originally posted by Deepak Chopra:
Yea, you are right, its like comparing a concert venue and err, well, another concert venue. It is so hard to compare such different things.
like comparing a fruit to a fruit? fruit!
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i think if you say you prefer the birchmere you may as well just go and buy the incontinance pants now.............
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Originally posted by poorlulu:
incontinance pants now.............
Will they be near the in·con·ti·nence pants?
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Originally posted by pollard:
like comparing a fruit to a fruit? fruit!
How about them apples?
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Originally posted by Deepak Chopra:
Originally posted by poorlulu:
incontinance pants now.............
Will they be near the in·con·ti·nence pants? [/b]
wa-nk-er......................
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Originally posted by Deepak Chopra:
Originally posted by Bags:
VERY apples and oranges comparison.
Yea, you are right, its like comparing a concert venue and err, well, another concert venue. It is so hard to compare such different things. [/b]
Dipshit (though wanker was a good term of art as well). I think they are substantially different and not comparable on a one-to-one basis, which is why they have very different artist rosters & schedules. I don't think a majority of the bands who've played 9:30 club in the past year would have played Birchmere, even if it were the right size to accomodate them -- whereas they may have chosen among Velvet Lounge, Black Cat, Iota, places in B'more, etc. based on draw but not TYPE of venue.
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What about late shows in the bandstand at the Birchmere? The website says it's general admission with limited seating surrounding the dance floor. Is it still necessary to get there really early, or is there plenty of room to get a decent spot if you get there shortly before showtime?
"Decent" doesn't necessarily mean right up front, but I'd prefer to at least have decent sightlines.
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They are completely different. It all depends on what mood I'm in, or what band/artist I'm seeing. I generally like to move around a bit. Plus, you do have to get there early to get a seat. It is tough for me to get there early and either way, it takes me an hour. 9:30 is closer for me. Both have pretty smooth operations and a nice staff. I had a little bit of food at Birchmere, I don't recall it being horrible. I saw other orders, they looked okay. 9:30 has good food, but no where to sit and eat. Either way, both end up being a pricey evening. But with the distance to Birchmere, I assume I'll end up eating there causing me to go broke.
I think I like Rams Head even better than Birchmere - it's a little bit smaller and more intimate with seats closer to the stage. And you can select your seats ahead of time. If Birchmere did that, I might go more often. The both of them are overpriced, Rams Head moreso.
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Originally posted by poorlulu:
wa-nk-er......................
Nope!
Its, wank·er!
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Originally posted by Bombay Chutney:
What about late shows in the bandstand at the Birchmere? The website says it's general admission with limited seating surrounding the dance floor. Is it still necessary to get there really early, or is there plenty of room to get a decent spot if you get there shortly before showtime?
"Decent" doesn't necessarily mean right up front, but I'd prefer to at least have decent sightlines.
I've never been, but I would think anywhere from that area, you'd be able to see. Heck, you could probably sit at the bar and see the show.
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Thanks El Tee.
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Originally posted by El Tee:
Originally posted by Bombay Chutney:
What about late shows in the bandstand at the Birchmere? The website says it's general admission with limited seating surrounding the dance floor. Is it still necessary to get there really early, or is there plenty of room to get a decent spot if you get there shortly before showtime?
"Decent" doesn't necessarily mean right up front, but I'd prefer to at least have decent sightlines.
I've never been, but I would think anywhere from that area, you'd be able to see. Heck, you could probably sit at the bar and see the show. [/b]
Oh wait, I've always thought of this as GA (general admission) not a seated event. I'm not sure how strict they are about watching from anywhere in the main. So, basically, I have no idea but I can find out. :)
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Originally posted by walkonby:
... in an area where i "may" not get robbed and killed just to see a show, ...
Isn't Birchmere in gang territory- the "Southside Locos"? Luckily they have a cop on duty in the lot every night, making it the safe spot in the barrio
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Originally posted by edbert:
Isn't Birchmere in gang territory- the "Southside Locos"? Luckily they have a cop on duty in the lot every night, making it the safe spot in the barrio
yeah it really isn't in the best neighborhood, I lived nearby a few years ago
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Who plays the late night bandstand shows? That's a concept that could be intriguing...
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Originally posted by edbert:
Originally posted by walkonby:
... in an area where i "may" not get robbed and killed just to see a show, ...
Isn't Birchmere in gang territory- the "Southside Locos"? Luckily they have a cop on duty in the lot every night, making it the safe spot in the barrio [/b]
oh yeah, the cop navigates the parking - they'll box your car in if you're not lucky. The cop leaves at a certain time, no?
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The Magnetic Fields and Bob Mould are upcoming. I remember Robert Earl Keen and Love playing there in the past. I think they try to hold any show there where people are likely to want to dance, and/or it's more of a "rock" show.
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Originally posted by Bags:
Who plays the late night bandstand shows? That's a concept that could be intriguing...
Just depends. And yeah, more of the louder, more movable, rock shows. Or, when they can't fit all the shows into the schedule, the spill over to bandstand.
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Originally posted by bellenseb:
The Magnetic Fields and Bob Mould are upcoming. I remember Robert Earl Keen and Love playing there in the past. I think they try to hold any show there where people are likely to want to dance, and/or it's more of a "rock" show.
The M.F. and Mould shows are bandstand shows?
Mould played in the big picnic room last time he was there, and I'd think sellout shows like Magnetic Fields would be in there as well. Is the capacity of the bandstand at all close to the picnic room? I'm quite surprised...this bandstand thing is relatively new, isn't it?
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I have seen the Jayhawks and Jay Farrar do shows at both the 9:30 and the Birchmere. In both cases the Birchmere shows were acoustic, while the 9:30 shows were not. I think that sums it up for me, a little simple I know, but then so am I. In both of those cases the Birchmere show was better by the way.
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For those of you interested by the way, Magnetic Fields tickets can be purchased at Revolution Records according to the Magnetic Fields website.
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the magnetic fields shows this week are in the bandstand, but they are all seated. still, that's a good show to be seated for. i remember last time they played here it was at 930, and during the last song of the set someone's cell phone went off at a very quiet part and merritt said, "next time turn your cell phones off." you knew he wouldn't be back at the club after that. he's a bitter, bitter man. should be some great shows, though, they've been playing lots of pre-69 love songs stuff like "smoke and mirrors" and "strange powers" and the like.
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So how many seats might fit in that bandstand area? Doesn't seem like it'd be much...
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Originally posted by Bombay Chutney:
What about late shows in the bandstand at the Birchmere? The website says it's general admission with limited seating surrounding the dance floor. Is it still necessary to get there really early, or is there plenty of room to get a decent spot if you get there shortly before showtime?
"Decent" doesn't necessarily mean right up front, but I'd prefer to at least have decent sightlines.
I've been to a couple of these. Dave Alvin/Los Straitjackets they didn't have tables in front of the stage, just on the sides and in the back, so it was a much more "rock" environment with a lot of people standing on the floor in front of the stage and not so much lighting, other than the stage lights. I had expected it to be kind of a drag, but instead was able to roam around to different vantage points and it sounded good from everywhere. Had a small pizza at the bar beforehand that was pretty good and I don't recall thinking it was expensive.
About a month ago I went to see Raul Malo solo acoustic in the bandstand and it was entirely seated. Got there at 9:30 and the only tables still open were on the side against the wall and that smaller room in the way back. It looked like everyone else had been there for at least an hour. I ended up on the side, not the best vantage point but could see Raul just fine and the sound was excellent. Had an OK salad for dinner that was gigantic. I did appreciate the staff's quick action when an idiotic woman was yapping on her cellphone during the opening act's set, disturbing at least 10 tables. Once they had been made aware of the problem they shut that bitch up quick.
I like the bandstand because it's more relaxed than the main room, but I think you still need to get there early if you care about where you sit. Although you can just lurk around in the bar/smoking section all night, with a decent side view, or hang out against the back wall or by the soundboard if you don't feel like sitting at a table. That's what I usually do.
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Originally posted by Bags:
So how many seats might fit in that bandstand area? Doesn't seem like it'd be much...
There are plenty of tables/seats/chairs in the bandstand area, as well as the bar area stage right. The only standing room is in the aisles and a square right by the stage of about 25 square feet. Anybody sitting what appears to be the best seats in the house before showtime (right near this open area in front of the stage) are soon made unhappy by people standing in front of them.
I saw the Gourds and Split Lip Rayfield there a few weeks ago in the bandstand.
Good sized crowd, great show. But there are so many tables even out there, any uptempo act starts from behind because the entire crowd is sitting down.
I agree for an act that is more natural to enjoy seated, Birchmere is tops. But ANY act where you may want to stand AT ALL, its frustrating to be essentially tied to your seat.
The first two Steve Earle shows I saw were solo acoustic at the 9:30 followed by a full on rock show with the Dukes at the Birchmere. I'm sure there were other reasons why this happened, but I've always thought someone did it just to fuck with the fans for the fun of it.
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wow . . . i posted this at work today for fun, and by the time i get back, there's a quantum going on. here is how attend the birchmere in style, in my opinion only. if it is a show inside the hall, get there when the box office opens to get a good lottery number for getting in. i think it's about five o clock on the days of shows; then go and have a wonderful dinner somewhere and get the drinky drink on, to start the night off right; then, as some have pointed out, birchmere is not in the "greatest part of alexandria" and some cabbies will advise you to call only when you are ready to leave--they never just go to "that part of town"--then other cabbies say those first cabbies are lying; i do advise taking a cab there because the lot is smaller and sometimes they really pack them in, which can be a bitch if you want to leave early; then get there half and hour, or so, before they start to call lottery numbers to be let in and boom.
if you are seeing a show on the other stage, an hour is good to get there before hand . . . and come on, you get there an "hour" before hand; go look around, check out the store, order more drinks, go for the big tables on the right first, sit with anyone, order pitchers, and have a great time. the other stage is better because you can talk and smoke and be rowdy, but for sound con-e-sewers, the main hall is the best buy.
and i still suffer the chances of parking on eighth street to have a close walk to see what i know will be a kick ass, small club venue show at nine thirty. thank you, seth.
and is it me, because i honestly don't know, from only visiting the place about three times, but is the crowd at black cat, black cat, some spare change for the homeless, sort of a bit snotty; you know mate, like skool girl english style snotty, and those damn lisa lobe glasses.
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But...
Don't they give out lottery numbers at 5, then start calling them off at 6? Makes it tough to get dinner elsewhere and make it back in time. Maybe if you run to RTs.
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Originally posted by bellenseb:
But...
Don't they give out lottery numbers at 5, then start calling them off at 6? Makes it tough to get dinner elsewhere and make it back in time. Maybe if you run to RTs.
Yeah, I'm curious what time do they start calling lottery numbers?
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Originally posted by bellenseb:
But...
Don't they give out lottery numbers at 5, then start calling them off at 6? Makes it tough to get dinner elsewhere and make it back in time. Maybe if you run to RTs.
So basically this means I have to leave for VA around 4:15 for a band that will go on sometime around 9:00. That's insane. (And on a weeknight, that's leaving work two hours early, for a LOCAL show -- not even Nissan :eek: )
I would have thought the advantage to a bandstand show is that it's not all seated. If it is all seated, why bother?
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Originally posted by Bags:
Originally posted by bellenseb:
But...
Don't they give out lottery numbers at 5, then start calling them off at 6? Makes it tough to get dinner elsewhere and make it back in time. Maybe if you run to RTs.
So basically this means I have to leave for VA around 4:15 for a band that will go on sometime around 9:00. That's insane. (And on a weeknight, that's leaving work two hours early, for a LOCAL show -- not even Nissan :eek: )
[/b]
Yup, the conundrum for me as well. (tough to get to 6 pm shows at 9:30 as well, but those shows are rare. But why I missed Fogerty!).
This past summer, from VA, mid-week, I left at 5/5:30 pm to a show at Birchmere starting at 8 pm. Took me an hour. The parking lot was 75% full and yes, there were no remaining seats viewable. So, yeah, if I plan to go out there during the week, I either need to leave work early, or show up late and not care where I sit. Or, as I did that night, sit in the bar and watch the crappy videofeed. (Good idea, but the video / monitor needs to be adjusted).
Do people not go to many shows so taking off of work every so often is not a large issue? Or, does everyone live or work close to a venue where time is not an issue?
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Originally posted by BookerT:
the magnetic fields shows this week are in the bandstand, but they are all seated. still, that's a good show to be seated for. i remember last time they played here it was at 930, and during the last song of the set someone's cell phone went off at a very quiet part and merritt said, "next time turn your cell phones off." you knew he wouldn't be back at the club after that. he's a bitter, bitter man. should be some great shows, though, they've been playing lots of pre-69 love songs stuff like "smoke and mirrors" and "strange powers" and the like.
Speaking of..just rec'd Birchmere's email:
Thu&Fri. Dec. 2&3: MAGNETIC FIELDS w/ Darren Hanlon -10pm- Late Show in the Bandstand! $22.50(Adv), $25(DoS) - This is an ALL SEATED Bandstand show, without Tables. Dinner & Doors 8pm. www.houseoftomorrow.com (http://www.houseoftomorrow.com) (Friday 12/3 is SOLD OUT!)
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Originally posted by El Tee:
Do people not go to many shows so taking off of work every so often is not a large issue? Or, does everyone live or work close to a venue where time is not an issue?
The majority of the shows I see in the DC area are at the 9:30 and Black Cat. I rarely venture out to Virginia for shows.
I work in Dupont and can walk to the BC or take a bus to the 9:30.
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Originally posted by El Tee:
[Isn't Birchmere in gang territory- the "Southside Locos"?
Gotta watch out for those Southside locos! ;)
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Originally posted by walkonby:
wow . . . i posted this at work today for fun, and by the time i get back, there's a quantum going on. here is how attend the birchmere in style, in my opinion only. if it is a show inside the hall, get there when the box office opens to get a good lottery number for getting in. i think it's about five o clock on the days of shows; then go and have a wonderful dinner somewhere and get the drinky drink on, to start the night off right; then, as some have pointed out, birchmere is not in the "greatest part of alexandria" and some cabbies will advise you to call only when you are ready to leave--they never just go to "that part of town"--then other cabbies say those first cabbies are lying; i do advise taking a cab there because the lot is smaller and sometimes they really pack them in, which can be a bitch if you want to leave early; then get there half and hour, or so, before they start to call lottery numbers to be let in and boom.
if you are seeing a show on the other stage, an hour is good to get there before hand . . . and come on, you get there an "hour" before hand; go look around, check out the store, order more drinks, go for the big tables on the right first, sit with anyone, order pitchers, and have a great time. the other stage is better because you can talk and smoke and be rowdy, but for sound con-e-sewers, the main hall is the best buy.
and i still suffer the chances of parking on eighth street to have a close walk to see what i know will be a kick ass, small club venue show at nine thirty. thank you, seth.
and is it me, because i honestly don't know, from only visiting the place about three times, but is the crowd at black cat, black cat, some spare change for the homeless, sort of a bit snotty; you know mate, like skool girl english style snotty, and those damn lisa lobe glasses.
um, that sounds dreadfully complicated for going to a show. 930 isn't nearly as complex. i've never been to birchmere though, and its like 5 miles away. was considering magnetic fields
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i'm sorry. i always cheat when i see a show at birchmere. i get a room in alexandria for the evening when i see a show there. that way i get my intoxications on before and after, and the blessed cabs, whom i all love, and the restaurants, and the drinking. now i must say, that the times i saw shows there, when i had already been there to get my ticket and lottery number, i came back and they started seating maybe an hour before the show. or maybe i had too much intoxications on. where's the "all power knowledge crew" with all the answers of any topic that some of the forum's finest possess, when i need them. bring me your advanced knowledge. I remember showing up and sitting with friends, ordering drinks and not waiting that long. but then again, i like watching hooker monkees on the sifl and olly show.
you know what i really hate: going to shows by myself; especially shows of "jambands" where all the "folks" think you're the undercover operator.
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Originally posted by walkonby:
you know what i really hate: going to shows by myself; especially shows of "jambands" where all the "folks" think you're the undercover operator.
Once at an RFK Dead show this guy followed me around the parking lot for a while, telling everyone within earshot that I was a narc. That kind of sucked.
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Originally posted by Bombay Chutney:
Once at an RFK Dead show this guy followed me around the parking lot for a while, telling everyone within earshot that I was a narc. That kind of sucked.
This story was funnier when I saw who posted it...So, what would motivate someone to do that??? You weren't wearing a tie, Chutney, were you? :p
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I think I had a really short crewcut at the time. I didn't exactly blend-in with the crowd.
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I'm coming into this conversation late, but there's no comparison between the two. 930 is a million times better (imho of course) The only advantage the Shushmere has over the 930 is free parking.
The staff, atmosphere and regulars all suck at the shushmere, regardless of who your going to see. You can enjoy yourself at an average show at the 930 but it has to be a terrific band to even tolerate the shushmere.
....but that's just me.
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all i have to say is i went to my first birchmere show last friday and it freaked me out. we got there as the first band was starting and everyone was already seated and halfway through dinner. we sat behing the sound booth and had to listen to some fat guy gnaw on his sandwich. we were there to see minnie driver (who, by the way, is amazing) and the crowd was all people my parents age and older. it really weirded me out and minnie driver made some sort of comment between every song about how quiet and well-behaved the crowd was. of course none of that will stop me from going to see bands i like. there just aren't usually bands i like playing there.
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Originally posted by prtybby:
really weirded me out and mini driver
<img src="http://shorts-welcome.tiscali.de/shorts/images/oktober2002/mini1.jpg" alt=" - " />
Was she really THAT good?
<img src="http://www.elexp.com/tools/0601m60.jpg" alt=" - " />
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My biggest beef with the Birchmere is the way they try to trap you into eating their food...but I think the "shushmere" comments take it a little too far. Most "rock" shows they put in the bandstand where there is more leeway, and the quiet folk shows they generally have in the main room are better off for it, IMO.
The Iron & Wine show at Iota was really hurt by the obliviously chatty girl next to me who was twice as loud as the music.
It all depends on the band, but certain shows definitely benefit from the quiet.
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For me, at least, the Shushmere nomenclature is more about the whole vibe of the place, not so much the actual level of quiet (or lack thereof). The whole vibe is very...calm, and a bit staid for the bands I'd usually want to see.
Though, the 'shush' part does come from the fact that if you do talk, you will usually be quickly and vehemently be shushed by a neighbor (and I mean quickly -- be careful asking someone to pass the ketchup!).
That said, I'm astounded anyone was allowed to be a chatty Kathy during a main room show.
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I tell ya, at the Beauty Pill show the other night, there was at least one beautiful moment nearly ruined, where the band was in a quiet stretch and doing some really cool vocal things, and a couple of assholes were screaming their heads off... some people need to be "shushed" with a punch in the face.
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Originally posted by bellenseb:
The Iron & Wine show at Iota was really hurt by the obliviously chatty girl next to me who was twice as loud as the music.
She must be a regular. :mad: She ruined my Ron Sexsmith/Griffin House show.
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Normally some talking isn't a big deal for me, but Iron & Wine are *very* quiet performers. And since they sold out two nights at Iota, I'm hoping they'll make it Birchmere next time...
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see a show on the other stage to judge the value of birch. and never go there to eat dinner; just order nachos, which rule . . . yeah, yeah, or the something else on the appetizer menu, which i forget, because their shiner bock on draught is killer. the only bad thing about the birch. is their bathroom. bring snapple bottles to pee in, if you don't like to wait, guys. the girl's room never seems to have a line though, for some reason.
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A few thoughts on the Birchmere; it does seem like people get there at some ridiculously early time to get a good seat but as someone who trickles in to most shows at the last possible minute I have found that you can usually see and hear fine from the rear of the Birchmere...for some reason the crowd at the Birchmere always appears ancient and very square looking but on the other hand they are typically an appreciative and musically well versed audience...I don't have a car so when I can't get a lift to Virginia I find it's not to hard to "do" the B-mere.It is a short cab ride from Pentagon City Metro and there are plenty of cabs sitting outside the mall.After the show which typically ends well before the metro witching hour you can catch a bus going either way on Mt Vernon Ave. in front of the club which will take you to one of the closest Metro stops(they run about every 15 minutes at that time) or of course you can call a cab to pick you up at B-mere...in regards to the surrounding neighborhood being "bad" I guess it's all relative,as a former Alexandria resident I think of that area as not being particular bad or scary and certainly not as dodgy as some streets close to 9:30...lastly,the food I have had there was pretty mediocre standard bar fare but was made up for by reasonably priced(for a music venue) pitchers of microbrew
The truth is I know plenty of hipster music fans who have never made it out to this club and have all kinds of lame excuses but it ain't too bad but I will still cast a vote for the good ol' 9:30.
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Originally posted by Bags:
Though, the 'shush' part does come from the fact that if you do talk, you will usually be quickly and vehemently be shushed by a neighbor (and I mean quickly -- be careful asking someone to pass the ketchup!).
We were actually "shushed" before one show had even started. We had just gone inside and met our friends who had arrived early to get a good table for everyone. During our "hey, good to see you" routine, some big fat softball playing bitch told my wife to shut the fuck up. BEFORE THE SHOW HAD STARTED! They then continued to bitch if we even asked the waiter for another round of drinks.....then they complained to the manager about us, but people at other tables around us made a point of telling him we were not being loud at all. One of the lads in our group reminded the manager the two miserable cows were drinking water and we had all eaten full meals and drinking beer so who would he rather have as customers??? The two bitches were eventually offered seats in the back of the room. It was a beautiful moment. The show was Eileen Ivers so it wasn't like it was a quiet show anyway.
That was the worst, not only "shush" experience there, but it was the last straw, apart from Marianne Faithful which I couldn't possibly pass up on. Oh, then the Waifs, but I was being a good mate for someone who really wanted to go.
Basically it sucks, but could be a great place with different management and staff.
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a thought just crossed my mind , though; what other venue, d.c. or not, offers this kind of forum for us to rant about which venue is better, and the such, to our fanciful delight? looks as if nine thirty is gaining the momentum to crush a dr. dre/ed lover groove on the birch.