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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: Jaguar on April 15, 2006, 07:55:00 pm
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(Sorry about the length but the NY Times doesn't allow direct linking.)
U Street: The Corridor Is Cool Again
New York Times - April 14, 2006 (http://travel2.nytimes.com/2006/04/14/travel/escapes/14washi.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5088&en=b4906f5986b4f7b8&ex=1302667200&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)
By ALICIA AULT
SAUNTER down U Street in northwest Washington almost any night and you'll hear the pulsing beat of urban nightlife: the tinny pop of a snare drum, the caustic sneering of an indie rocker, the smooth melodies of a lounge singer, the plaintive picking of a folkie and the driving chunk-a-chunk of hip-hop.
The U Street Corridor, the center of Washington's African-American nightlife for much of the 20th century and the birthplace of Duke Ellington, is vibrant again and the newest and hottest place in town for getting out on weekends after dark. The transformation that began in the late 90's, after three decades of decline and neglect, continues to gather speed, with boarded-up buildings reopened and transformed into galleries, shops, cafes and clubs, and nightlife seekers migrating over from Georgetown and Adams Morgan for a slightly older, less raucous scene where the patrons have a bit more money to spend.
"Adams Morgan is not new anymore," said Melih Buyukbayrak, who sold his interest in a restaurant there last year and is a co-owner of the new Tabaq Bistro in the U Street Corridor. "U Street is new and hip."
On weekend nights and even during the week, throngs from the city and suburbs, along with hip city visitors, crowd the dozens of restaurants, bars and clubs of the corridor, a strip of U Street from 9th Street to 16th Street and blocks nearby.
"When I come to U Street, I'm coming more for a laid-back, jazz kind of thing," said Katarro Rountree, 24, a Georgetown University graduate student dressed preppily and drinking a Corona beer at Busboys and Poets, a bookstore, cafe and performance space that opened in September at 14th and V Streets. The cafe's high-ceilinged, loftlike space would be at home in San Francisco or Seattle, and it draws a multicultural stew of aging liberals, young antiestablishment types and college students. Although he likes hardcore partying in Georgetown, Mr. Rountree said, he prefers U Street for food, music and date nights.
In the heyday of jazz, artists like Dizzy Gillespie, Billie Holiday, Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Miles Davis and Shirley Horn, who was born in Washington, made regular stops on U Street. One club where they played, the Crystal Caverns, is now called the Bohemian Caverns and still books jazz acts. Another, the landmark Howard Theater, was closed in 1970 but later bought by the District of Columbia, which is soliciting redevelopment offers.
From the riots after the assassination of the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. in 1968 until the mid-1990's, many of the three- and four-story brick buildings and glass storefronts along U Street were shuttered and derelict, with the exception of stalwarts like Ben's Chili Bowl, opened in 1958, where people still line up for half-smokes, chili fries and thick shakes. The construction of a Metro stop and the rise of real estate prices in Washington brought new interest in U Street, and in the last five years, condominium high-rises have sprung up and town houses have been renovated. Restaurants, shops and night life have followed.
The transformation has been so profound that Phil Coleman, 43, of Philadelphia, who used to live in Washington, thought in a recent visit that he had gotten out at the wrong Metro stop when he went to meet a friend on U Street. He was astounded, he said, by the crowd and the wealth of things to do.
One of those things is shopping. Need designer shoes? Try Wild Women Wear Red for Frye's spring sandal collection, or Carbon, where you can also pick up a $155 Virgins, Saints & Angels belt with a Jesus-and-Mary diptych buckle. Style-conscious types looking for retro oversize 1970's sunglasses or double-knit pants ($20) can bop into Meeps, which has been on U for 14 years.
A gallery scene is unfolding. NevinKelly holds down the western end of the corridor with the work of local and Polish artists. At the eastern end, Project 4 just held its first show, a war-themed photography exhibit that was shown earlier at the International Center of Photography in New York.
But it is at night that the U Street Corridor really comes alive.
Mary Beth Sullivan, 47, who lives in Arlington, Va., and was having dinner one busy Saturday night in December with friends at Creme, a popular new U Street restaurant, said that in 20 years of living in the Washington area, she hadn't set foot on U Street until a recent visit to see a concert at the Lincoln Theater. The district government bought and refurbished the old theater, reopening it in 1994 to show theater, comedy and dance.
AT Creme, Ms. Sullivan's party was eating at the bar; at 8 p.m., there was a two-hour wait for the restaurant's upscale version of Southern dishes like shrimp and grits ($16) or pork and beans ($18). A relaxed crowd â?? young and old, black and white, straight and gay â?? basked in understated candlelight reflecting off blond wood and olive-tone walls. Ms. Sullivan had come on the recommendation of the bartender, whom she had known in his previous job at the upscale Marcel's in the nearby West End. What was U Street's allure for her and her friends? In part, Ms. Sullivan said, "We like the diverse crowd."
At Busboys and Poets, named for Langston Hughes, who began his career as a poet while working as a busboy at the Wardman Park Hotel in Washington, the varied crowds come for camaraderie, poetry readings and screenings of films like "Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Prices." Late one night last winter, a young couple lounged on a sofa and not far away, even though it was after 1 a.m., students pored over laptops at long, communal wooden tables. A middle-aged couple, the man in black tie, made their way to a spot in the sofa area near where a young woman in a halter top and her date, an Usher look-alike, were drinking Champagne.
A few doors down 14th Street at Jin on another winter night, a hip crowd of 20- to 40-somethings shimmied and sipped Kristal and Dom Perignon behind the frosted door of the "Asian-Caribbean Soul Lounge." Tiny white stools lined the bar, but most patrons chatted in the lounge area, where tables hugged by retro sofas can be reserved for $250 or $500.
At U-Turn on 11th Street, a spike-haired, tattooed Matt Aikens, 22, had joined the punk and goth crowd that comes regularly to listen to bands with names like Curbside Revenge and Pessimist Parade. He had come in from Alexandria, he explained, for the "community feel" of the club.
And at Polly's Cafe, at 1342 U, a neighborhood crowd ate vegetarian-leaning comfort food in a cozy publike space mostly below street level with exposed brick walls and a working fireplace. Polly's has live music, usually acoustic indie, on Wednesday nights, the owner, Cici Mukhtar, said. She is adapting to the new U Street crowds by supplementing her beer on tap with small-batch bourbons and novelty liquors like the espresso-fueled Van Gogh vodka.
U Street hasn't yielded completely to the new and affluent. Visitors will be accosted for change on busy weekend nights, and they will walk past liquor stores with bulletproof cashier's windows and boarded-up, spray-painted storefronts. But with the old U Street steadily fading, the party scene is what takes the eye.
Well after the dinner hour on a Friday night in March, women in cocktail dresses and stilettos waited at the valet station at Tabaq; one stepped into a Volkswagen Touareg, another into a black BMW sedan. A block away, about a dozen men and women who seemed to be barely more than 18 years old, wearing club attire, laughed and teased each other just beyond the velvet rope at Bar Nun.
The night was far enough advanced for crowds to be thickening at Republic Gardens, a nightclub that survived lean times to enjoy the resurgence and can now command $250, $500, and $1,000 minimums at some tables after 11 p.m. on Saturdays.
Jazz sounds drifted into the street from Bohemian Caverns, Twins Jazz and Duke's City. At DC9 and the Velvet Lounge, which are smoky, scruffy and loud, the music was indie and punk. Two of Washington's most successful spots, Black Cat and the 9:30 Club, drew fans who like a smorgasbord of music: reggae, pop, alt-country, gypsy, R & B, go-go, gospel, punk, folk, Latin.
Jon Dauphiné, 38, a lawyer eating with five friends at Creme on a Friday night in March, said he liked U Street enough to have moved close by three years ago from Georgetown, drawn by the diversity not only at night, but also in the feel of the area day to day. "This is the cutting edge," he said, "of what the city is and can be."
If You Go
The U Street Corridor is accessible from the U Street/Cardozo/African-American War Memorial stop on the green line of the Washington Metro system. It is easily navigated on foot.
Hotels within walking distance include Hotel Helix, a boutique property at 1430 Rhode Island Avenue, NW, 202-462-9001; doubles from $140; and Hotel Rouge, 1315 16th Street NW; 202-232-8000; rates $150 to $200. The Bed and Breakfast on U Street, 877-893-3233, www.bedandbreakfastdc.com, (http://www.bedandbreakfastdc.com,) in a home at 17th and U Street NW, has a queen room with a private bath for $165 a night on April and May weekends.
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When did Polly's go "vegetarian-leaning"?
Originally posted by Jaguar:
And at Polly's Cafe, at 1342 U, a neighborhood crowd ate vegetarian-leaning comfort food....
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Yeah, I wondered about that myself.
The entire article makes it sound like U St. is the place the rich go slumming with their American Express cards.
Guess it's time for those of us who don't have a cool grand to spend on an average night out to find some place else.
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We are, indeed, quickly running out of places where we can go cheaply. Case in point: Chinatown.
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I tell ya, U Street hasn't been much more than a place for the rich to go slumming for several years now. It's been a long time since the days when you would emerge from Club Asylum (formerly on U Street) and have to run down the street to get away from the crack whores...
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had dinner at Creme last night and it was fantastic ... I ordered the pork and beans and was expecting some kind of shady pulled pork and black beans type or dish ... it turned out to be a caveman-sized pork leg (i could have beat someone to death with it, had i been so inclined) swimming in a really tasty lima bean broth ... for $17, i thought it was a damn good deal
and Tabaq isn't any different than any other nice bar in the area ... last night it was pretty dead around midnight or so, easy to get a table and drink in the view ... drink prices were the same, if not cheaper, than any other nice place
so it's not like you have to drop a bunch of $$, jag ... articles like this make these places sound like some kind of mythical oracle of hip-itude where people light cigarettes with hundred dollar bills and arrive in ferraris, but they're just normal restaurants and bars
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
had dinner at Creme last night and it was fantastic ...
Best roasted chicken I've ever had. And not particularly expensive. Hope it's not any more difficult to get a table.
As an aside, Phil Coleman and Jon Dauphine, each quoted in the article, are both friends of mine. Phil, in fact, was on his way to meet me at Sala Thai for dinner the evening he's talking about. Pretty fun!
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Originally posted by Doomter Doc:
It's been a long time since the days when you would emerge from Club Asylum (formerly on U Street) and have to run down the street to get away from the crack whores...
Um, damn?
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Don't you get it that for some people, $17 for an entree IS a lot of money?
I'm not speaking for myself, but for some people, it is.
Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
had dinner at Creme last night and it was fantastic ... I ordered the pork and beans and was expecting some kind of shady pulled pork and black beans type or dish ... it turned out to be a caveman-sized pork leg (i could have beat someone to death with it, had i been so inclined) swimming in a really tasty lima bean broth ... for $17, i thought it was a damn good deal
and Tabaq isn't any different than any other nice bar in the area ... last night it was pretty dead around midnight or so, easy to get a table and drink in the view ... drink prices were the same, if not cheaper, than any other nice place
so it's not like you have to drop a bunch of $$, jag ... articles like this make these places sound like some kind of mythical oracle of hip-itude where people light cigarettes with hundred dollar bills and arrive in ferraris, but they're just normal restaurants and bars
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakajima, Fired by Mascis:
Don't you get it that for some people, $17 for an entree IS a lot of money?
I'm not speaking for myself, but for some people, it is.
no Rhett, I don't get it at all, please explain further ... you mean to say that some people can't afford a measly seventeen dollars for a dinner entree??!!!
who are these people, and from what planet have they been sent ... in my extremely limited life experience, consisting of suckling from the teat of my upper-middle-class parents and never really working a day in my life, i've never come across such individuals, and i therefore refuse to believe that they exist
i've also been told that entree prices in the mid-teens are fairly comparable to your average suburban chain restaurant such as Outback Steakhouse or TGI Fridays ... surely everyone in this great land can afford such common fare?
i'm especially oblivious to any issues considering this term "gentrification" i've heard bandied about and how the traditional residents of the U street neighborhood are finding it hard to afford to live in the area.
please, please enlighten me.
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Couldn't agree more with Hoya..as a Ust resident I for one am happy its being developed..its easy for outsiders to want the area to stay shitastic (for their indie credit).. but as a resident I can't care for that...and Creme is wonderfull..that pork shank Hoya mentioned is delicious and very fairly priced for its quality...don't people pay more for dry ribs at Chili's?...anyways...who cares, if you can't afford it stay out and find a new place...stop being such whiny bitches all the time...jeez...
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A U-Street resident of many, many years, I'm sure. :)
Now if only I could somehow keep the prices of housing in Springfield on the rise to keep out those greasy Mexican illegals who seem to keep showing up everywhere.
Originally posted by Fico:
Couldn't agree more with Hoya..as a Ust resident I for one am happy its being developed..its easy for outsiders to want the area to stay shitastic (for their indie credit).. but as a resident I can't care for that...and Creme is wonderfull..that pork shank Hoya mentioned is delicious and very fairly priced for its quality...don't people pay more for dry ribs at Chili's?...anyways...who cares, if you can't afford it stay out and find a new place...stop being such whiny bitches all the time...jeez...
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Why would anyone who lives in New York bother coming down here to hang out?
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakajima, Fired by Mascis:
A U-Street resident of many, many years, I'm sure. :)
Originally posted by Fico:
Couldn't agree more with Hoya..as a Ust resident I for one am happy its being developed..its easy for outsiders to want the area to stay shitastic (for their indie credit).. but as a resident I can't care for that...and Creme is wonderfull..that pork shank Hoya mentioned is delicious and very fairly priced for its quality...don't people pay more for dry ribs at Chili's?...anyways...who cares, if you can't afford it stay out and find a new place...stop being such whiny bitches all the time...jeez...
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You are right Rhett. I have not been a resident of Ust for more than a year. But the other 2 neighbors in my building have been living in the are for 5+years, and my roommate's girlfriend has been living in the are for years as well..and the neighborhood has improved vastly and they all welcome it with open arms. So if my view is moot for my short stint at U, I think theirs is still valid. And I think few would argue a walk down Ust is far more pleasurable/safe now than 5-7 years back...
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I'm just giving you shit, Fico. In general, I'm in agreement with you.
Originally posted by Fico:
Originally posted by Charlie Nakajima, Fired by Mascis:
A U-Street resident of many, many years, I'm sure. :)
Originally posted by Fico:
Couldn't agree more with Hoya..as a Ust resident I for one am happy its being developed..its easy for outsiders to want the area to stay shitastic (for their indie credit).. but as a resident I can't care for that...and Creme is wonderfull..that pork shank Hoya mentioned is delicious and very fairly priced for its quality...don't people pay more for dry ribs at Chili's?...anyways...who cares, if you can't afford it stay out and find a new place...stop being such whiny bitches all the time...jeez...
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You are right Rhett. I have not been a resident of Ust for more than a year. But the other 2 neighbors in my building have been living in the are for 5+years, and my roommate's girlfriend has been living in the are for years as well..and the neighborhood has improved vastly and they all welcome it with open arms. So if my view is moot for my short stint at U, I think theirs is still valid. And I think few would argue a walk down Ust is far more pleasurable/safe now than 5-7 years back... [/b]
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
i've also been told that entree prices in the mid-teens are fairly comparable to your average suburban chain restaurant such as Outback Steakhouse or TGI Fridays ...
I was going to say the exact same thing. When a "Triple Jack Combo" at TGIF is $18 and spaghetti is $13, , you can't say that a $17 entree is beyond the pale and earns the designation as "expensive." Granted, it's 'expensive' for some, but so is $4 for a happy meal. We're talking 'relative' here, and when many restaurants around DC have ventured up into the mid-20s and higher for entrees, I don't think you can say U Street has become insanely unaffordable. Especially for you, Rhett, whom I'm assuming would eschew all those fancy $8 and $10 drinks (which you can get just about anywhere, by the way).
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Originally posted by Fico:
Originally posted by Charlie Nakajima, Fired by Mascis:
A U-Street resident of many, many years, I'm sure. :)
Originally posted by Fico:
Couldn't agree more with Hoya..as a Ust resident I for one am happy its being developed..its easy for outsiders to want the area to stay shitastic (for their indie credit).. but as a resident I can't care for that...and Creme is wonderfull..that pork shank Hoya mentioned is delicious and very fairly priced for its quality...don't people pay more for dry ribs at Chili's?...anyways...who cares, if you can't afford it stay out and find a new place...stop being such whiny bitches all the time...jeez...
[/b]
You are right Rhett. I have not been a resident of Ust for more than a year. But the other 2 neighbors in my building have been living in the are for 5+years, and my roommate's girlfriend has been living in the are for years as well..and the neighborhood has improved vastly and they all welcome it with open arms. So if my view is moot for my short stint at U, I think theirs is still valid. And I think few would argue a walk down Ust is far more pleasurable/safe now than 5-7 years back... [/b]
I'm sorry, but living in the U St area for just a year is nothing to really make your point valid but welcome to the neighborhood. Glad you waited until it was cool, hip and safer.
The area is definitely safer than it was 7-8 years ago when I moved down to it. That didn't mean I wouldn't feel safe walking around at 2am by myself. I feel the same now as I did back then. Hell back in 98, I wouldn't have even thought to park my car on the block I live now when I'd come down to BOUND @ Bar Nun.
I know quite a few people that have lived on my block since the 80s and they're not all to happy with some of the changes that have happened. Most of the people that are moving in, aren't very friendly or neighborly. Stuffy yuppies just wanting to live in the "hip" area and push all the businesses that have been around for 10+ years out for a trendy hot spot to go in.
Sure bring your expensive cars down to the city and then bitch about it when your window was smashed because you left something visible in your car. I see it happen every weekend. :)
Btw...I have seen plenty of Ferraris around the 13th and U St area so they are coming around. Wouldn't have seen them there even 3 years ago parked even in the paid lot that use to be on U St before the Ellington took that land.
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com)
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$17 for a hunk of burning meat is nothing to spend much time thinking about. you can either afford it or you can't. if you can't, i'd suggest you get a schwarma at 18th & U at the sudanese joint for $5. the more troubling part of the article, at least for me, is that people would pay $250 - 1000 for a table at republik gardens (or anywhere else for that matter). since it is "tax day," i'll just say that i'm enough of a pinko commie to state that the top marginal rates for taxes should return to the confiscatory levels before the reagan "tax cuts" (middle class people saw less of their paychecks after reagan than before due to the increase in FICA taxes) if people have thousands to blow on "a table" for a nite out on U Street. iyiyi.
vive la bush tax cuts.
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Originally posted by Jaguar:
Sorry about the length
Rhett has to say this to his disappointed wife every night.
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I don't know, I've been a productive working "professional" member of society for some years now, and I still cringe a little at paying 17-20 bucks for an entree. Am I that far out of the mainstream here? Maybe it's just that I usually only eat at thai/indian/ethiopian joints that rarely charge above 12 bucks for anything - and I consider that a good night out! Huge plate of dumplings in chinatown for 4.95? Even better.
I don't think you have to be living in poverty to be like, 17 bucks, what? If that's what they charge at Friday's these days, just one more reason not to eat there. The 10 dollar drinks freak me out too...why drink those when you can have beer? Guess I'm still a middle-class-bordering-on-white-trash girl at heart.
Now, spending 25 plus fees on a concert ticket is par for the course, but we're talking about music there...priorities, people!
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Originally posted by kled:
I don't know, I've been a productive working "professional" member of society for some years now, and I still cringe a little at paying 17-20 bucks for an entree. Am I that far out of the mainstream here? Maybe it's just that I usually only eat at thai/indian/ethiopian joints that rarely charge above 12 bucks for anything - and I consider that a good night out! Huge plate of dumplings in chinatown for 4.95? Even better.
I don't think you have to be living in poverty to be like, 17 bucks, what? If that's what they charge at Friday's these days, just one more reason not to eat there. The 10 dollar drinks freak me out too...
I agree with you! I could afford it, but choose other options...
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I'll have the side salad, and you can put it next to my water.
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Originally posted by yinzer:
$17 for a hunk of burning meat is nothing to spend much time thinking about. you can either afford it or you can't. if you can't, i'd suggest you get a schwarma at 18th & U at the sudanese joint for $5. the more troubling part of the article, at least for me, is that people would pay $250 - 1000 for a table at republik gardens (or anywhere else for that matter). since it is "tax day," i'll just say that i'm enough of a pinko commie to state that the top marginal rates for taxes should return to the confiscatory levels before the reagan "tax cuts" (middle class people saw less of their paychecks after reagan than before due to the increase in FICA taxes) if people have thousands to blow on "a table" for a nite out on U Street. iyiyi.
vive la bush tax cuts.
Yinzer, you are the only one who got my point! It's the excessive pricing that we all need to be weary of.
Regardless of value or restaraunt, there are many of us who can't just plop down $17 on an entree plus extras any time we feel like eating out. I know a number of others on this board who can't do that without budgeting for such a treat but most of us won't embarass ourselves by broadcasting it to the world.
But again, my point, as Yinzer understood, was the extravagance that was highlighted in the article.
Personally, I'm glad the neighborhood is being cleaned up and made safer. I just don't want to be eventually forced out by the elite taking over and pushing the more affordable activities out.
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All I can say is that if you people can't afford a $17 entree, you need to hire a better investment advisor!
ps -- this is the funniest thread in a long time...
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Originally posted by Doomter Doc:
All I can say is that if you people can't afford a $17 entree, you need to hire a better investment advisor!
Investment advisor!? More like a raise or a better job!!!
Not all of us are making $60,000+/year. Especially those of us in Baltimore where the wages are much lower and the jobs much, much less available. Crap, I never even made $50,000/yr when I was teaching and that was with an Advanced Certification for K-12 (most are only K-6 or 7-12) that included Sp. Ed, 2 Master's degrees and many, many years of teaching!!!
It appalls me how out of touch with reality some people are when it comes to others' finances. This is not a cookie cutter world.
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well, going from $17 for pile of meat to $1,000 for "a table minimum" in the article like the two are in any way comparable is just plain silly writing. i mean, i have had and had not, so i have known budgeting for a decent meal for plenty of my adult years. what i haven't known are the people who pay hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, "for a table" in a corny fucking lounge like it's somehow the hot shit thing to do on a saturday night. although i did have some friends who somehow got roped into "the table" situation in miami and they were pissed as hell at the clown who took them there when they were presented with that bill. what they thought the place was going to be priced like i have no idea. people are free to do whatever the hell they want with their money, but i couldn't even look in the mirror if i behaved like that when there are homeless people standing outside the place hungry as hell. nyc, dc, miami, la, or wherever should slap a sales tax on all "table minimums" of 100% as far as i am concerned and feed people with the proceeds. anybody who needs to waste money like that to have a good time drinking is seriously warped.
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Originally posted by yinzer:
what i haven't known are the people who pay hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, "for a table" in a corny fucking lounge like it's somehow the hot shit thing to do on a saturday night.
I hear you....I have friends who make quite a lot of money, and I can't imagine a one of them paying for a bottle of Crystal, much less just a table for hundreds of dollars. I'm kind of fascinated by who these folks are (let the flaming begin, but I'm thinking international American U. and GW grads)... Though I have to say, the emergence of these places on U doesn't bother me, because I doubt it will ever be more than a couple of places. Hell, Republic Gardens has been around for like a dozen years -- it's hardly one of the 'new interlopers'.
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Originally posted by Jaguar:
Originally posted by Doomter Doc:
All I can say is that if you people can't afford a $17 entree, you need to hire a better investment advisor!
Investment advisor!? More like a raise or a better job!!!
Not all of us are making $60,000+/year.[/b]
i would never tell anyone how to spend their money, totally understandable if you don't like to spend your dough on restaurants ... but you don't need to pull in $60k to be able to afford entrees in the mid-teens every once in a while, in my short time out of school (and before i went back into school) i never even made half of that in a year
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
Originally posted by Jaguar:
Originally posted by Doomter Doc:
All I can say is that if you people can't afford a $17 entree, you need to hire a better investment advisor!
Investment advisor!? More like a raise or a better job!!!
Not all of us are making $60,000+/year.[/b]
i would never tell anyone how to spend their money, totally understandable if you don't like to spend your dough on restaurants ... but you don't need to pull in $60k to be able to afford entrees in the mid-teens every once in a while, in my short time out of school (and before i went back into school) i never even made half of that in a year [/b]
You still don't get it, do you? It's not about the one $17 entree. It's about the proliforation of more and more places pulling in $17+ and much much more while pushing out the more affordable meals. Not that I have anything whatsoever against these places because I don't. I tend to like them. Sure, I and the other lower enders could scrimp and save and enjoy a $17 entree once in awhile but only once in a very great while. Besides, it's not just $17 after you add tax, beverages, tips, etc.. It's really sad how out of touch some people are with other peoples' realities.
Christ, it costs me almost $15 roundtrip in gas alone just to go to DC which is the real reason I end up missing most shows that I want to see. I just cannot afford it if I also want to pay my rent. And I know for a fact that there are many others on this board who can't throw that kind of money around everytime they'd like after all costs are added up. Most won't speak up though because it's embarassing. It's only those who are out of touch with us and don't really understand that we don't all have that much discretionary money to spend on a regular basis who are always saying that $$$ is nothing. We have to choose between shows, CDs, meals, gas, essentials, trips, clothing, whatever and a whole lot of those end up off of our lists solely because we have that much less money. I know that everyone has to budget but it really kills me how so many people here often automatically assume that everyone can afford any and everything that comes around at any time. The truth is, a lot of us can't!
Hoya, I bet your parents paid for your tuition. Guess what. Mine didn't give me one red cent! Try making almost nothing and still having to pay back all those loans yourself. A lot of us know how that cuts into all of those $17+ entrees.
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Originally posted by kled:
I don't know, I've been a productive working "professional" member of society for some years now, and I still cringe a little at paying 17-20 bucks for an entree. Am I that far out of the mainstream here? Maybe it's just that I usually only eat at thai/indian/ethiopian joints that rarely charge above 12 bucks for anything - and I consider that a good night out! Huge plate of dumplings in chinatown for 4.95? Even better.
right on...they've all got better food, anyway.
it is good to have just a nice dinner every once in a while, but coming from Bethesda (aka good restauraunt city)...i mean, wouldn't do it every night. then again, i'm not sure that the people in here that expressed paying $17 for dinner do it every night. so you can't blame them either. i'd just personally rather, most of the time, spend that money on something else.
it's not helping anything radical happen and it's not helping anyone tear down the administration, but people are people.
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I don't see what the big deal is. If someone wants to pay $17 for an entree, who cares? I eat out in DC all the time, and $17's usually closer to the max of what I ever pay for the whole meal + drinks. This might be an issue if there were no affordable choices, but there are tons and tons of yummy restaurant options in Doom City where the entree's under 10 bucks.
Anyway, in restaurants you're paying for the ambience and the priviledge of having someone bring you your food as much as you're actually paying for the food. Some of the best meals I've had in this city have been out of a paper bag sitting on an apartment house stoop on a perfect warm evening with someone special. Now that's what I'm talkin' about.
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Since nobody has said it...
Ben's Chili Bowl
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Originally posted by yinzer:
anybody who needs to waste money like that to have a good time drinking is seriously warped.
this is why god invented violent street crime and muggings!
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Originally posted by MindCage:
I'm sorry, but living in the U St area for just a year is nothing to really make your point valid but welcome to the neighborhood. Glad you waited until it was cool, hip and safer.
I didn't know those little industrial DJ kits came with a high horse. Get over yourself, dude.
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I do agree with Mindcage that a lot of the newbies moving into the neighborhood suck. Present company excepted, I'm sure. But one of the pleasures of living downtown used to be the interesting people you'd get to know as neighbors, and there just aren't that many cool people around anymore. A little-known fact of life seems to be that people who'll pay a half-million dollars or more for a fake loft in a building with Disneyesque banners saying "urban living" hanging on the sides just aren't very interesting.
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So does one have to be a fat black man who sits outside the Black Cat going "Black Cat, Black Cat" in order to be interesting?
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Hey, I make over 60k a year, but after student loan payments, exorbitant DC rent, transportation expenses (and I don't even have a car), cable and phone bill, clothes for work, and on and on, 17 bucks still seems too much to pay for dinner at an overrated "martini bar," where I can sit next to a gaggle of hill staffers in butterfly tops getting wasted and screeching about how their boyfriends really wanted to come along tonight but they had to work, blah blah blah. Why do that when you could have better food at Ben's or Dukem or any number of places, in a less pretentious environment, for much less money? Like I said before, what extra spending money I have I'd rather spend on concert tickets. But if eating "fancy food" is more important to you, go for it, I won't try to stop you. Just seems like a waste to me, unless it's a special occasion.
But this, like dropping hundreds of dollars for a "table" at some club, is a matter of taste. Some people are born into money, roll around in it their entire lives, and like to throw it around meaninglessly. Those of us who had to put ourselves through school (or who just work for a living) don't do those things. And face it, most pre-2000 residents of U street don't fall into the martinis-and-table-fees category, and, while I'm sure they're happy at the reduced crime and increased police presence in their neighborhood, would still like to be able to afford and fit in at some neighborhood bars. But the tide of gentrification is unstoppable I guess.
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A little-known fact of life seems to be that people who'll pay a half-million dollars or more for a fake loft in a building with Disneyesque banners saying "urban living" hanging on the sides just aren't very interesting.
think about it, this quote tends to be a true statement. it is certainly not a maxim, but it is more accurate than not. if the statement is true, then there are probably going to be less interesting characters hanging around most of the time. for the most part, the only people with enough cheese (outside of the occasional trust funded bon vivant...and why would they live in DC???) in DC who can afford $500,000 - $1,000,000 fake lofts are big-firm lawyers and lobbyists and they tend to not have piles of free time on their hands. think about who would desire to live in one of those places. likewise, there will also be less derelicts hanging around so there is a ying and a yang to gentrification. i think it sucks though when regular people can't continue to rent, eat, and drink in their neighborhood b/c of rampant and explosive gentrification and have to move. that hurts a neighborhood. it's a tale that repeats itself in up and coming neighborhoods in more desireable cities every decade in america so i don't really know that anything can be done about it short of implementing strict rent control laws. (see - not happening)
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Originally posted by Chaz, Lover of all Beings:
I didn't know those little industrial DJ kits came with a high horse. Get over yourself, dude.
They come with a high horse and some knowledge of how the area has changed in the last 10+ years while supporting many of the establishments in the area the whole time. Unlike the majority that's moved in within the last 2 years. All they know it's a "hot" real estate market and an "upcoming" area. They couldn't give a shit about the elderly Etheopian woman who has lived there for 20 years and has the market on the corner of the block. They see that as a place "urban" people only will step foot in because it's not Whole Foods on P St. Therefore, when people hang outside of these smaller Mom and Pop markets they see it as "trouble" and want the store gone and put her store out of business. What do they want some shitty clothing store or overpriced furniture store in place of it? Funny no one had the problem before some douchebag that just dropped $700K on a 1 bedroom condo that is afraid of the "urban" living even during the daytime. I believe the Washington Post had an article about this very same thing regarding Paradise Liquor on 14th and T St. Something like "I didn't want to subject my guests that come to visit me to see bulletproof glass." So it's not about a high horse as it is wanting to perserve my neighborhood and keep it friendly and diverse. We've had great neighborhood block parties every summer. In the last two years it's gotten smaller and smaller only because these new people don't want to associate with the rest of us.
Like Jaguar said "I just don't want to be eventually forced out by the elite taking over and pushing the more affordable activities out." Unfortunately Jag...it's already been happening and will continue to happen. Think about it...Polly's raised their prices that were just so rediculous for that place only because the newer trendy places were coming in at $10 burgers. Republic Gardens had to change around quite a bit if it even thought about staying open in the neighborhood. Why do you think they have such crazy table service for such a shithole? Because the new neighborhood bitched about all the "colored" people frequenting the neighborhood for Republic Gardens and being loud. So to help with the clientel, they've just made it more expensive hoping to elimiate the lower class people that use to frequent Republic Gardens. Neighborhood Association meetings are rather amusing sometimes. They wouldn't flat out say they were trying to shutdown every club that catered to "colored" people but funny how they keep targeting them. I have more of an issue with the suburban white kids coming in and leaving all their bottles from the drive in and pissing in the alleys before the drive home.
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com)
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Originally posted by Jaguar:
Hoya, I bet your parents paid for your tuition. Guess what. Mine didn't give me one red cent! Try making almost nothing and still having to pay back all those loans yourself. A lot of us know how that cuts into all of those $17+ entrees.
like i said, i didn't want to get into some pissing match here ... but i'll be coming out of school with six-figure debt, and i'm not exactly looking forward to it
all i was saying was that Creme's prices (mid-teens) were reasonable for fantastic food (it's really not overrated, kled) in the district ... at most other places, similar dishes would be in the mid-20s ... when compared to chain food entrees at places like chili's and outback that cost the same amount (and they do), there's simply no comparison ... and like everyone else said, there are plenty of places to get great CHEAP food in the area, it's not like the people posting on here eat out at nice restaurants 6 times a week (or at least i assume they don't)
that's all i was trying to say, sorry to offend you jag ... or to use my favorite sportcenter line at the moment, "excuse my bellicosity"
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Originally posted by yinzer:
for the most part, the only people with enough cheese (outside of the occasional trust funded bon vivant...and why would they live in DC???) in DC who can afford $500,000 - $1,000,000 fake lofts are big-firm lawyers and lobbyists and they tend to not have piles of free time on their hands.
frankly, the price range you quoted seems to be the going rate for 2 bedroom apartments through smallish row houses in good neighborhoods, let alone a "fake luxury loft"
how about the penthouse loft on 18th street right next to the reef and across from madams organ and stuff ... $2.8 million! if you had that kind of money to throw down for an urban loft, why the hell would you want to live on the strip in adams morgan?!
my friends live in an apartment right across the street from it, and it seems like the only time people are there are during weekend evenings, and mainly to throw "parties" (a smattering of boring people holding wine glasses on the balcony) ... i'm guessing it's some kind of corporate-owned thing?
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Another example of newcomers forcing their will on neighborhoods is people who've been trying to impose changes on downtown churches, which as anyone who knows DC knows, are the cornerstone of old-school DC neighborhood life.
I've heard that a lot of the people moving into the $million+ Adams-Morgan "lofts" have been complaining about the noise from the neighborhood businesses. You know where that will lead.
The one thing that kind of surprises me is that the people who are getting pushed out haven't reacted more strongly, maybe because it's been happening gradually. I've heard stories of kids throwing stones at yuppie bicyclists, but that's about it.
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And if being on a bicycle isn't the ultimate symbol of being a "yuppie", I don't know what is...
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Originally posted by Doomter Doc:
Another example of newcomers forcing their will on neighborhoods is people who've been trying to impose changes on downtown churches, which as anyone who knows DC knows, are the cornerstone of old-school DC neighborhood life.
i think this issue is a lot more complicated than just newcomers trying to "impose changes" on churches ... the double-parking problem is a real one, and the shiloh baptist stonewalling of vegetate is pure bullshit, especially when irresponsible corner liquor stores are even closer to them
Originally posted by Doomter Doc:
I've heard that a lot of the people moving into the $million+ Adams-Morgan "lofts" have been complaining about the noise from the neighborhood businesses. You know where that will lead.
simply retarded, i agree ... someone moved into a rowhouse directly across from georgetown's campus gates, and proceeded to complain about noise from students for months on end, what the fuck did you expect? whoever through a brick through his window in response to his whining wasn't too nice about it, though.
Originally posted by Doomter Doc:
The one thing that kind of surprises me is that the people who are getting pushed out haven't reacted more strongly, maybe because it's been happening gradually. I've heard stories of kids throwing stones at yuppie bicyclists, but that's about it.
have you been following this whole thing on DCist? are you defending these kids?
by the way, did anyone notice the police helicopter circling rock creek park in between adams morgan and woodley park last night? shit was going on until after 2am, really loud and annoying, i guess they were looking for some carjacking suspect
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The notion that hordes of people are "pushed out" by gentrification is largely a falsehood born of misplaced white guilt.
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The notion that hordes of people are "pushed out" by gentrification is largely a falsehood born of misplaced white guilt.
i didn't know scott mcclellan posted here. you cannot be serious.
if you want to look at even more extreme cases than u st. look at what happens and has happened in nyc because there the real estate situation is always more extreme. i can name you 10 neighborhoods and i will where people (white, black, asian, latino, etc.) have been pushed out of their neighborhoods b/c of high rent. let's go: hell's kitchen, dumbo, lower east side, east village, williamsburg, tribeca, chinatown, large swaths of harlem, carroll gardens, the meatpacking district, astoria. it's the story of new york. it's good and it's bad, but it ceratinly exists. look at san francisco. seattle.
go to this article from the 03.06.06 sunday times mag if you think gentrification is a myth:
"Psst... Have You Heard About Bushwick?" there are, um, refereed journal articles and dissertations by the thousands on this topic to say the least.
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http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-04-19-gentrification_x.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-04-19-gentrification_x.htm)
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Originally posted by MindCage:
Neighborhood Association meetings are rather amusing sometimes. They wouldn't flat out say they were trying to shutdown every club that catered to "colored" people but funny how they keep targeting them.
so what would you say about Kili's, or that go-go club that used to be in the government building on 14th and U ... not being accusatory, just curious to hear your views on people trying to shut those clubs down because of repeated violent incidents
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
so what would you say about Kili's, or that go-go club that used to be in the government building on 14th and U ... not being accusatory, just curious to hear your views on people trying to shut those clubs down because of repeated violent incidents
Those were shutdown/targeted for multiple reasons. The violence didn't help defend the clubs' cases. 2K9/Kili's had always been a target since it opened. Anytime you cater to the "hip-hop" and "go-go" crowds you'll find people waiting for you to mess up just once. Just like Between Friends (Now Cue Bar...btw anyone even been in there yet?). Look at Dream/LOVE...that place has had SO many problems and violations yet it continues to operate. I mean you've had police officers run down from underage patrons of Dream. Why doesn't anyone want to shut this place down? Oh that's right..it's in NE away from anything residential (for now...) I'm referring to bars like U-Turn (don't like the freaky people hanging outside Mondays and Thursdays), Republic Gardens, Bar Nun (who had to put up "Quiet Please" signs on Wallach (behind U St) when he wanted to increase the club space.) Why not target the Latinos that create a lot more noise DIRECTLY across from your street and pee on the side of Yums? Oh that's right, it's because Bar Nun has a lot more "colored" people attending the club than El Paradiso where the cops are parked out front every night of the week and are inside the club. Hell they've even tried to go after The Black Cat when Dante wanted to move into the space that was occupied by The Cage.
The people that moved in want nightlife, but they want it to be on their terms. No concert venues and no dance clubs. I wonder how many of these people write checks to Jim Graham.
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com)
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
The notion that hordes of people are "pushed out" by gentrification is largely a falsehood born of misplaced white guilt.
Oh, brother. :roll: Certainly true for a small pocket but that sounds a whole lot more like a reply from someone with hardcore neo-con guilt. However, I suspect you may be just pulling a Rhett and trying to get a rise out of us rather than making a real personal statement. But maybe I'm wrong.
After reading through a lot of these posts, I think that many of us are really pretty much on the same page but gettiing lost in the details. Certainly $17 entrees are quite common everywhere and are on the low end of the excess that this article was highlighting. Personally, if what some of you are saying is true about Creme, it sounds to me like it's a much better value, all in all, than Ben's. (In my opinion, especially since I believe that Ben's isn't all that great of a value for the price.) It's just that the middle and lower classes who are gradually being pushed aside are not the ones who will be able to frequent a lot of these places enough to keep them all in business for all that long. Meaning, that a lot of them couldn't survive. Only several could continue to maintain an ongoing income to keep up with expenses. Here's where the well off can contribute to keep them in business. Just don't force everyone else out in the process by upping prices, values and taxes amongst the entire community.
Whomever noted what has happened to Polly's hits the nail right on the head!!! Wouldn't be surprised if their prices raised not to keep up with the others but just to cover their ever increasing property taxes. The same basic reasons why DC can't hold onto decent record/cd stores.
As far as one class of people being more 'interesting' than another, I can't really go along with that. Personally, I find the wealthier just as interesting. They just tend to stay more to themselves (or be tied up at work) which makes it much harder to get to know and enjoy their company. In some cases, I'd much rather have them as neighbors than a few of the others who I don't want to run into on a dark corner when I'm alone in the middle of the night.
I suspect that a lot of those insanely over-priced condos are purchased by very well off people as investment properties to lease to well off students and young professionals moving into the city. Not all, of course. Either way, the average person can't afford to either lease or own such a place. It truly scares me as, yes, these are the going rates in many of these places and a very large majority of us can't ever think of owning property without some strange lucky piece of fate coming our way. Rents aren't far behind.
Have to fully agree with those who mentioned those self-rightous asses who buy in such areas only to bitch about noise, etc.. The same thing happened many years ago in Fells Point but on a much lower class scale. Even dumber, we had the same bitch by idiots who purchased homes right next to BWI airport! Christ, the airport was there first!!! WTF did they expect!?!?!?
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Originally posted by Jaguar:
Oh, brother. :roll: Certainly true for a small pocket but that sounds a whole lot more like a reply from someone with hardcore neo-con guilt. However, I suspect you may be just pulling a Rhett and trying to get a rise out of us rather than making a real personal statement. But maybe I'm wrong.
The poor stay put
Freeman and Vigdor say gentrification has gotten a bad rap. When they studied New York City and Boston, respectively, they found that poor and less educated residents of gentrifying neighborhoods actually moved less often than people in other neighborhoods â?? 20% less in New York. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-04-19-gentrification_x.htm)
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So, apparently, it's the middle class who continue to get screwed. Too well off (by goverment standards) for public assistance and too poor for gentrified living.
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exactly correct jaguar and believe me the gentlemen from columbia understand your point. the facts, as the professors present them, are interesting regarding poor people though.
the mcpaper article's explanations as to how it people "hold on" to their apartments make me wonder whether i should laugh or cry.
To wit:
Homeownership. - "just go buy a house"
Rent control. - "just live in a building built before 1950 with 5 or more floors without an elevator (or whatever the similar specifics are with nyc's rent control laws). you'll probably need to be, well, 82 years old or so."
Government subsidies - "be really poor"
Doubling (or tripling) up. - "move in with 10-15 of your closest drinking buddies"
Landlord-tenant understandings. - "further cultivate your slave/master relationship with your landlord"
More income devoted to rent. - "exactly. pay way more rent. learn to love and accept it."
Prayer. - "faith-based housing initiatives coming from a bush administration HUD to a neighborhood near you." word up!
THANK YOU USA TODAY. it's not just for pet parakeet droppings anymore.
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Actually, it's not that hard to become a homeowner, if you're willing to go without $17 pork chops, $7 Yuenglings, and $40 concert tickets.
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"Actually, it's not that hard to become a homeowner, if you're willing to go without $17 pork chops, $7 Yuenglings, and $40 concert tickets."
Yeah, but what are you gonna do, just sit in your barren new home and stare at the walls? I'd rather rent and have all the beer and music I want.
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Nah, you're going to sit out on your deck or your new leather sofa and work on your $12 12 pack of imports and listen to your lifetime collection of good music. Or have sex or something. Why must life revolve around spending time and money in bars and nightclubs?
Originally posted by kled:
"Actually, it's not that hard to become a homeowner, if you're willing to go without $17 pork chops, $7 Yuenglings, and $40 concert tickets."
Yeah, but what are you gonna do, just sit in your barren new home and stare at the walls? I'd rather rent and have all the beer and music I want.
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakajima, Fired by Mascis:
Actually, it's not that hard to become a homeowner, if you're willing to go without $17 pork chops, $7 Yuenglings, and $40 concert tickets.
what would we ever do without your lessons in frugality? how many years in a row have you gone to bumbershoot?
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I guess you'd have to go to school to become some sort of big bucks lawyer so that you could spend freely and not have to worry about it.
We've been to Bumbershoot three of the past five or six festivals, but never two in a row. Every plane ticket was purchased with frequent flier miles, and my brother's Seattle address provided for the lodging. And tickets were maybe $18/day.
Next question?
Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
Originally posted by Charlie Nakajima, Fired by Mascis:
Actually, it's not that hard to become a homeowner, if you're willing to go without $17 pork chops, $7 Yuenglings, and $40 concert tickets.
what would we ever do without your lessons in frugality? how many years in a row have you gone to bumbershoot? [/b]
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But what if I'm young, not married, and want to be out around people rather than sequestered in my house on my deck, regardless of how nice a deck it may be? Same reason I choose to live in the city rather than suburbs - it's just easier to go out and meet people. I know the suburbs are cheaper. But I choose the lifestyle.
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That's your choice. I was addressing people who complain about the high cost of buying a house, but aren't willing to make financial decisions and sacrafices that would allow them to do so. So I wasn't addressing my comments to you.
Originally posted by kled:
But what if I'm young, not married, and want to be out around people rather than sequestered in my house on my deck, regardless of how nice a deck it may be? Same reason I choose to live in the city rather than suburbs - it's just easier to go out and meet people. I know the suburbs are cheaper. But I choose the lifestyle.
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Originally posted by kled:
Yeah, but what are you gonna do, just sit in your barren new home and stare at the walls? I'd rather rent and have all the beer and music I want.
No, I'm going to sit in my modestly furnished house, have a fair amount of beer and music and watch my equity pile up.
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Like Hoya said, are you defending these kids? If so, please explain.
Originally posted by Doomter Doc:
I've heard stories of kids throwing stones at yuppie bicyclists, but that's about it.
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Originally posted by kled:
"Actually, it's not that hard to become a homeowner, if you're willing to go without $17 pork chops, $7 Yuenglings, and $40 concert tickets."
Yeah, but what are you gonna do, just sit in your barren new home and stare at the walls? I'd rather rent and have all the beer and music I want.
I actually agree with Rhett -- I don't go out for dinner nearly as often as some friends. I do go to a lot of shows, and I like to have folks over to drink -- great way to save money (though mostly it's just a choice because you can catch up more). Also, a friend across the way has an amazing roofdeck...(this is city living as well!)
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I'm certainly not defending the stone-throwing kids, just saying I understand the motive. I hope you understand the difference. As a bike rider, I'd be pissed if some kid threw rocks at me, and I'd probably try to club him with my U-lock, but I'd understand where he was coming from.
Also, I need to point out that USA Today isn't exactly what would be considered a scholarly resource.
ps, on the subject of bikes I'm selling a Jamis Coda city bike if anyone needs one...
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Originally posted by Doomter Doc:
Also, I need to point out that USA Today isn't exactly what would be considered a scholarly resource.
LOL. Yeah, I thought the same thing. Also, the article came off very slanted especially as it often contradicted itself as it went along.
As I said before, White neo-con guilt.
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Perhaps the stone thrower needs to work a bit harder in school and in life, then he can become a yuppie himself.
Originally posted by Doomter Doc:
I'm certainly not defending the stone-throwing kids, just saying I understand the motive. I hope you understand the difference. As a bike rider, I'd be pissed if some kid threw rocks at me, and I'd probably try to club him with my U-lock, but I'd understand where he was coming from.
Also, I need to point out that USA Today isn't exactly what would be considered a scholarly resource.
ps, on the subject of bikes I'm selling a Jamis Coda city bike if anyone needs one...
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Originally posted by Doomter Doc:
Also, I need to point out that USA Today isn't exactly what would be considered a scholarly resource.
No, it's not. However, McPaper is merely reporting on the findings of the "scholarly resources" of Columbia and Duke.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
No, it's not. However, McPaper is merely reporting on the findings of the "scholarly resources" of Columbia and Duke.
Please look into the original sources of this reportage, and then get back to us with a brief synopsis as well as your assessment as to whether USA Today's account was accurate. Thanks.
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Originally posted by Doomter Doc:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
No, it's not. However, McPaper is merely reporting on the findings of the "scholarly resources" of Columbia and Duke.
Please look into the original sources of this reportage, and then get back to us with a brief synopsis as well as your assessment as to whether USA Today's account was accurate. Thanks. [/b]
OK, slick.
In the meantime, you can continue to proffer your unsubstantiated claims of mass displacement and explain how that diaspora so traumatizes the remaining indigenous youth that they have no alternative but to take up the only arms their impoverished existence affords and use those to assault the boojy white conquerors.
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Originally posted by Jaguar:
As I said before, White neo-con guilt.
A specious claim, as it rests on an assumption that neo-cons feel guilt....
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Jaguar:
As I said before, White neo-con guilt.
A specious claim, as it rests on an assumption that neo-cons feel guilt.... [/b]
Yes, I was going to state something along those lines but then decided to drop the subject where it was. :p
By the same token, I believe that an equal amount of the upper crust gentry are out of touch dems who have completely lost touch with all that they claim to support and a fair amount of them aren't even White. Oh, the irony!
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Jaguar:
As I said before, White neo-con guilt.
A specious claim, as it rests on an assumption that neo-cons feel guilt.... [/b]
the only guilt that neo-cons have right now is that they didn't think of the oil plot in "24" first.
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And what motive is this? If it's anything other than kids being pricks, I'd be surprised.
Originally posted by Doomter Doc:
I'm certainly not defending the stone-throwing kids, just saying I understand the motive.
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You all need to stop arguing, and hug. Please.
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<img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/team_dupek/e8f73d04.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Originally posted by MindCage:
Originally posted by Chaz, Lover of all Beings:
I didn't know those little industrial DJ kits came with a high horse. Get over yourself, dude.
They come with a high horse and some knowledge of how the area has changed in the last 10+ years while supporting many of the establishments in the area the whole time. Unlike the majority that's moved in within the last 2 years. All they know it's a "hot" real estate market and an "upcoming" area. They couldn't give a shit about the elderly Etheopian woman who has lived there for 20 years and has the market on the corner of the block. They see that as a place "urban" people only will step foot in because it's not Whole Foods on P St. Therefore, when people hang outside of these smaller Mom and Pop markets they see it as "trouble" and want the store gone and put her store out of business. What do they want some shitty clothing store or overpriced furniture store in place of it? Funny no one had the problem before some douchebag that just dropped $700K on a 1 bedroom condo that is afraid of the "urban" living even during the daytime. I believe the Washington Post had an article about this very same thing regarding Paradise Liquor on 14th and T St. Something like "I didn't want to subject my guests that come to visit me to see bulletproof glass." So it's not about a high horse as it is wanting to perserve my neighborhood and keep it friendly and diverse. We've had great neighborhood block parties every summer. In the last two years it's gotten smaller and smaller only because these new people don't want to associate with the rest of us.
Like Jaguar said "I just don't want to be eventually forced out by the elite taking over and pushing the more affordable activities out." Unfortunately Jag...it's already been happening and will continue to happen. Think about it...Polly's raised their prices that were just so rediculous for that place only because the newer trendy places were coming in at $10 burgers. Republic Gardens had to change around quite a bit if it even thought about staying open in the neighborhood. Why do you think they have such crazy table service for such a shithole? Because the new neighborhood bitched about all the "colored" people frequenting the neighborhood for Republic Gardens and being loud. So to help with the clientel, they've just made it more expensive hoping to elimiate the lower class people that use to frequent Republic Gardens. Neighborhood Association meetings are rather amusing sometimes. They wouldn't flat out say they were trying to shutdown every club that catered to "colored" people but funny how they keep targeting them. I have more of an issue with the suburban white kids coming in and leaving all their bottles from the drive in and pissing in the alleys before the drive home.
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com) [/b]
I agree with a majority of your points Mindcage, but your "I was here first" attitude as well as the constant downtown street-cred pissing contest you constantly engage in here smacks of the same elitism you rail against.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
The poor stay put (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-04-19-gentrification_x.htm)
...in cities or neighborhoods/areas that have well developed rent control districts and public housing developments. Those residents don't have much of a choice.
The majority of the country is not set-up like this (DC included) and gentrification certainly exists. Look at Houston's Third and Fourth Ward for examples. This Freeman and Vigdor study cites two poor examples of smaller neighborhoods that may not be indicative of the city as a whole, and certainly aren't indicative of the rest of the country.
I can assure you that gentrification exists on a neighborhood basis in SF (like The Tenderloin and The Mission), but is less prevelant in the further south you go of Market due to the concentration of public housing in and around Hunters Point.
A really good study would be the effect new ballparks have on neighborhoods. When you build a new ballpark, the area is rezoned as a economic improvement district and certain limitations on public housing and rent control are removed/altered. Cleveland and the area around Pac Bell/SBC/AT&T Park have clearly been gentrified (and to some extent Baltimore, but that's a different conversation all together. Neither New York nor Boston have had a new ballpark in nearly 40 years.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
A really good study would be the effect new ballparks have on neighborhoods. When you build a new ballpark, the area is rezoned as a economic improvement district and certain limitations on public housing and rent control are removed/altered. Cleveland and the area around Pac Bell/SBC/AT&T Park have clearly been gentrified (and to some extent Baltimore, but that's a different conversation all together. Neither New York nor Boston have had a new ballpark in nearly 40 years.
Look at what MCI Center did to Chinatown. Not only is it a booming residential center (and more business sustainability due to restaurants, etc., for employees), but it's a huge tourist center. Which, alas, brought some of those chains (Fuddruckers, TGIFriday, Coyote Ugly, Hooters), but who am I to complain. The chains bring the tourists who bring the MONEY.
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Originally posted by you be betty:
You all need to stop arguing, and hug. Please.
You just wait -- you'll be one of us yet. ;)
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Well, I just got back from an 8 night vacation in the Cayman Islands and the surf and turf I got one night was 55 bucks. So give me a 17 dollar meal any day this week!!!!!!!
Great vacation though, can't say I'm happy to be back.
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Originally posted by Bags:
Look at what MCI Center did to Chinatown. Not only is it a booming residential center (and more business sustainability due to restaurants, etc., for employees), but it's a huge tourist center. Which, alas, brought some of those chains (Fuddruckers, TGIFriday, Coyote Ugly, Hooters), but who am I to complain. The chains bring the tourists who bring the MONEY.
This reminds me of a band that tries to make a comeback after 10 years, sounds completely different, and should be called something else. Why the hell is it still Chinatown when you've got corporate america infested all over the place. Don't get me wrong. I love me some (*)(*)'s (Hooters for the slow people) but there's nothing much about Chinatown other than that overhang at H and 7th St. I swear heads will roll if Chinatown Express ever gets forced out. There's plenty of vacant space in other buildings not far from Chinatown they could have occupied. I can't seem to recall any other city that lets this happen in when trying to preserve a cultural area. I guess with a dirty city gov't and building developers these things will happen. Go Jamal!
I hope that wasn't too street-cred pissy for you Chaz ;)
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com)
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Originally posted by MindCage:
I can't seem to recall any other city that lets this happen in when trying to preserve a cultural area.
how about the lower manhattan, the borders of little italy, chinatown, and the jewish quarter (does it have a name?) and every other ethnic enclave have shifted for years ... it's just normal shit
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Originally posted by MindCage:
Originally posted by Bags:
Look at what MCI Center did to Chinatown. Not only is it a booming residential center (and more business sustainability due to restaurants, etc., for employees), but it's a huge tourist center. Which, alas, brought some of those chains (Fuddruckers, TGIFriday, Coyote Ugly, Hooters), but who am I to complain. The chains bring the tourists who bring the MONEY.
This reminds me of a band that tries to make a comeback after 10 years, sounds completely different, and should be called something else. Why the hell is it still Chinatown when you've got corporate america infested all over the place. Don't get me wrong. I love me some (*)(*)'s (Hooters for the slow people) but there's nothing much about Chinatown other than that overhang at H and 7th St. I swear heads will roll if Chinatown Express ever gets forced out. There's plenty of vacant space in other buildings not far from Chinatown they could have occupied. I can't seem to recall any other city that lets this happen in when trying to preserve a cultural area. I guess with a dirty city gov't and building developers these things will happen. Go Jamal!
I hope that wasn't too street-cred pissy for you Chaz ;)
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com) [/b]
No...that was within acceptable limits.