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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: ggw on September 23, 2003, 01:25:00 pm
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BRIAN JONESTOWN MASSACRE
19 August 2003: Schuba's â?? Chicago
Every aspiring rock star, before he embarks upon his career, should be handed a list of things never to say to an audience. On this list would be many phrases: "Your city sucks," for instance, or "Sorry we made you guys wait for two hours, but we were backstage playing Boggle." At the top of this list, in bold type with stars around it, would be this phrase: "I don't give a fuck; I'll sit here all night. I'll take your money."
Brian Jonestown Massacre frontman Anton Newcombe has definitely never seen this list. The contentious vocalist is known for approaching his shows like a lithium-deprived bipolar, seemingly giving immediate voice to whatever comes into his head, damn the consequences. BJM's show on August 19th at Schuba's was a prime example of this devil-may-care attitude in action, as Newcombe, oblivious to any standards of decorum and propriety, spent the night provoking the crowd with bizarre statements (like the above) and sloppy renditions of his band's retro-psychedelic songs, ultimately rendering the evening less a concert than an Tony-Clifton-sized exercise in audience alienation.
The show started auspiciously enough, with BJM's three-guitar frontline combining with Dave Koenig's bass and Dan Allaire's tenacious drumming to create a jangly, Byrds-like sound that seemed directly drawn from '60s AM radio. Newcombe had his back to the audience for some reason, so his lyrics were kind of hard to hear, and his meandering, trippy guitar solo seemed oddly out of place in the presence of such a tight backing band. Still, the song was bouncy and fun, and the band seemed to be having a good time, each musician swaying to his own separate rhythm. The song ended and Newcombe started bitching out the bass player in low tones for some reason, God only knows why.
The show went on in this pattern for a while -- mumble, meander, bounce, complain, repeat -- until the fourth or fifth song, when Newcombe, visibly irritated, took off his shirt, which seemed logical enough. Taking off your shirt in public is a time-honored Midwestern cure-all, as anyone who has ever been to the Illinois State Fair can attest. Partial nudity notwithstanding, the song was similar to all the others -- simultaneously bright (the music) and murky (the singing) -- until the point when, about thirty seconds into it, he stopped singing and pointed an accusatory finger at the sound guy, angrily telling him to "please set up the PA one way and leave it that way . . . and you haven't been playing with the reverb, either."
The sound guy muttered something back. Newcombe kept on pointing. "Show up for soundcheck!" called someone from the back of the room. Newcombe was not taken aback. "Sorry we missed soundcheck," he said, "but I don't understand what the problem is." The rest of the band was looking kind of bemused at this point, as if this sort of thing happened often. The crowd was growing restless. "Play more rock," someone yelled. "Big fuckin' star!" Hands on hips, he turned his wrath on the audience with his "I'll take your money" statement.
At this point, I seriously doubted that we were going to hear any more music at all. The audience and the frontman were at loggerheads, the soundman was alienated, and the band looked like it wanted to disappear. I would imagine that it's really hard for the band to concentrate on the music with Newcombe acting like Little Lord Fauntleroy -- which is perhaps why BJM has featured something like 40 different members in eight years.
With the audience rapidly decreasing, Newcombe seemed to realize that he had fucked up, and he tried to make it up to the crowd with a half-hearted "Thanks for hanging on...you guys are good people." "Fuck you, you suck," yelled a small voice from the back of the room. Newcombe sneered and turned his back to the crowd once more. This was apparently the band's cue to start playing, because the music started up again.
I don't know if it was a function of the behavioral histrionics or what, but the band never seemed to hit their stride. Flashes of brilliance came through intermittently: during the "Hyperventilation Song", for instance, as Frankie Teardrop and Matthew J. Tow's guitars explored the boundaries of feedback and distortion, and during "Telegram", where the thin, hollow-body guitar sound that dominated the evening was used to distinct advantage. But these moments were frustratingly few and far between.
BJM could have an amazing live show if they wanted to. They're musically competent -- Teardrop's work with the 12-string electric was impressive and discreetly intricate, and drummer Dan Allaire (or, as I like to call him, Smiley McGee) was the very definition of rock-steady. Yet, as it stands, they don't take advantage of their possibilities. The bands that BJM seem desperate to emulate, like Moby Grape, were great because they harnessed and focused their members' talents into complex songs that were more than merely repetitive riffs. BJM, on the other hand, doesn't boast that level of sophistication. The three-guitar setup is wasted, as Teardrop and Tow spend their time strumming elementary three-chord patterns while Newcombe dicks around on his pointless, unfocused solos. Maybe it's different on their records, but this simplicity translates into a frustrating live show, where you're continually waiting for them to break out, to do something (musically) exciting.
I guess they had to compensate for their sonic predictability with their antics, which were entertaining in the same way that TV shows like America's Deadliest Train Wrecks are exciting. Their behavior would be excusable, even enjoyable, if the band was, well, good. But their live mediocrity just rendered it tiresome. Oh, look, Anton's talking about how many drugs he does! Oh, now they're stopping the show for five minutes to go and get drinks! Oh, now he's talking about drugs again! Oh, look, now he's complaining about the amount of alcohol in the drinks. Sigh. Just shut up and play more rock.
Around 1:00, with about 15 people still there (midway through the show, Frankie Teardrop offered up a meek "I guess a lot of people had to work tomorrow, because a lot of people left." Yeeaahhh . . . ), Newcombe ended the show with a curt "That's gonna have to do it," and the family members, masochists, and media types left in the audience breathed a sigh of relief. All in all, they ended up playing for about two hours, so I guess those who stayed to the bitter end got their money's worth after all. Audience Members 1, Anton Newcombe 0.
â?? 23 September 2003
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Doesn't surprise me at all.When they're on it's amazing,when they aren't,i still manage to enjoy the amusement.If I were a fan and that was my only chance to see em,I'd sure be bummed though.So it goes in rock n roll.Wins some you lose some.Hope he's in a good mood in B/more.If he is,their live sound can be incredible.
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Well, the High Strung are opening for them here, and I want to see H.S., so even if the antics get out of control in a "not fun" way, I'll be cool. Hell, it's a Sunday anyhow, I'm gonna wanna head home fairly "not late."
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Hold on, I thought the whole point of BJM was to Anton blow up and bottle someone. The music was good live last time. But the antics are great.
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Originally posted by bags:
Well, the High Strung are opening for them here, and I want to see H.S., so even if the antics get out of control in a "not fun" way, I'll be cool. Hell, it's a Sunday anyhow, I'm gonna wanna head home fairly "not late."
Well,I've been holding off on commenting on the High Strung until I absorbed their release.At this point,I really like the band,music is excellent,but there's something about the vocals that grate on me.Hopefully they won't be way up in the mix live coz like I said the music is excellent.Anybody else not care for the vocals or is it just me?I have the same problem with The Anniversary.
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Originally posted by SPARX:
Anybody else not care for the vocals or is it just me?
The 2 singers are both rather high and nasal when they sing, but I thought that kind of charming, in a Fergal Sharkey kind of way.
Three of us saw them live first (with BJM) and were mildly ecstatic about it. We got their EP there and enjoyed it to.....
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That's my problem with Superchunk, I think. His voice is so tinny and weak, it drives me nuts, *especially* live.
Cursive vocals are awful too. For some reason, I'm fine with The High Strung, though. But I hear what you're saying.
Originally posted by SPARX:
Well,I've been holding off on commenting on the High Strung until I absorbed their release.At this point,I really like the band,music is excellent,but there's something about the vocals that grate on me.Hopefully they won't be way up in the mix live coz like I said the music is excellent.Anybody else not care for the vocals or is it just me?I have the same problem with The Anniversary. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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Originally posted by Bubba:
Originally posted by SPARX:
Anybody else not care for the vocals or is it just me?
The 2 singers are both rather high and nasal when they sing, but I thought that kind of charming, in a Fergal Sharkey kind of way.
Three of us saw them live first (with BJM) and were mildly ecstatic about it. We got their EP there and enjoyed it to..... [/b]
The one singer isn't so bad,but man the other one is waaay too nasal and whiny,let the other singer on the mic.I'll bet the nasal singer is the chief songwriter,that would explain it.I am looking forward to seeing them as musically,the fuckers rock!!Bubba,were you at the BJM show that I made you a copy of?I miss Jeff's witty banter with Anton.
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Originally posted by bags:
[QB] That's my problem with Superchunk, I think. His voice is so tinny and weak, it drives me nuts, *especially* live.
I hear ya.I really like No Pocky for Kitty but they sort of lost me after that.
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I can understand complaints about The High Strung's voices, and I think it may be more obvious on record, but live I did not notice it at all. Maybe that is because I had NO expectations and I was just there to see BJM.
I have also heard Tim Kasher's (Cursive) voice as a reason for MANY people not liking them. It is one of the main reasons I like them though.
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Originally posted by jadetree:
I can understand complaints about The High Strung's voices, and I think it may be more obvious on record, but live I did not notice it at all.
That's good to hear.It should be a great double bill.Especially at a venue the size of Mojo's.
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Originally posted by SPARX:
The one singer isn't so bad,but man the other one is waaay too nasal and whiny,let the other singer on the mic.I'll bet the nasal singer is the chief songwriter,that would explain it.I am looking forward to seeing them as musically,the fuckers rock!!Bubba,were you at the BJM show that I made you a copy of?I miss Jeff's witty banter with Anton.
Which songs does the one you find nasal sing, the songwriting seems to be by both the singers.
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Nasally voice singers should stick to country or pop, not rock.
That's why I think Robbie Fulks makes a better country and pop singer than a rock singer.
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Originally posted by jadetree:
[[/qb]
Which songs does the one you find nasal sing, the songwriting seems to be by both the singers. [/QB][/QUOTE] Not sure right now.It has been my shower CD of the week and is at home.I can definitely hear the difference 'tween the 2 though.I recorded it on CDR so i don't have the specifics of who's doing what.I loved the Anniversary's music as well but couldn't get past the vocals,oh well.
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Originally posted by SPARX:
BJM show that I made you a copy of?I miss Jeff's witty banter with Anton.
I dont think so. I have only been to the one velvet lounge show and that was high strung, metropolitan and BJM.
As for the high strung again The most nasal guy is the prettiest, but he plays guitar on stage right.
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Originally posted by Bubba:
Originally posted by SPARX:
BJM show that I made you a copy of?I miss Jeff's witty banter with Anton.
I dont think so. I have only been to the one velvet lounge show and that was high strung, metropolitan and BJM.
[/b]
Dead Meadow was the opener,boy were they boring.I was anticipating much more from them.
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Originally posted by SPARX:
Dead Meadow was the opener,boy were they boring.I was anticipating much more from them.
I first saw them open for GBV and have seen them I think 4 times since, never been bored by them, too loud to be boring ;)
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Originally posted by jadetree:
Originally posted by SPARX:
Dead Meadow was the opener,boy were they boring.I was anticipating much more from them.
I first saw them open for GBV and have seen them I think 4 times since, never been bored by them, too loud to be boring ;) [/b]
I was totally expecting a psych band and instead got mediocre alt. country.Don't know what happened to them that night,they weren't even loud that i can remember.Big disappointment,although BJM put on a good show that night.It was Valentines Day,and extremely cold.I have DM's live album Bomp sent me,it's yours if you want it.It won't be getting any rotation around here.
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I get the feeling some people who use the term "alt-country" have absolutely no clue what it is. I think I did hear Dead Meadow once, and did think they were awful, but the weren't awful alt-country (that would be Ryan Adams).
by Rick Kutner
Although the three members of Dead Meadow met while attending all-ages punk shows in and around Washington D.C.'s punk/indie scene; the trio's sound draws more of their sound from such classic rock legends as Pink Floyd and Black Sabbath. The trio formed in the fall of 1998 out the ashes of local indie rock bands The Impossible Five and Coulour by singer-guitarist Jason Simon, bassist Steve Kille, and drummer Mark Laughlin. The three members set out to fuse their love of early 70's hard rock and 60's psychedelia with their love of fantasy and horror writers J.R.R. Tolkien and H.P. Love Craft.
The trio released their six-song debut album in 1999 on Fugazi bassist Joe Lally's Tolotta Records and a joint vinyl release on D.C. indie label Planaria Records. Then in 2001 the band released its second album Hounds from The Hills on Tollota Records. The group's unique marriage of Sabbath riffs, dreamy layers of guitars fuzz bliss, and singer Jason Simon's high-pitched melodic croon has managed to convert both psychedelic pop/rock and stoner rock fans alike. In a reasonably short period the D.C. trio has received offers to open on tour for everyone from local D.C. hipsters The Make-Up to seedy psychedelic rockers Brian Jonestown Massacre and eventually landing the opening slot for high profile indie veterans Guided by Voices. It was shortly after the Guided By Voices tour that the group found itself inking a recording contract with the indie tastemakers over at Matador Records. The group has even had the honor of being invited to record live for long time cutting edge British radio personality John Peel for BBC Radio One.
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Originally posted by SPARX:
I was totally expecting a psych band and instead got mediocre alt. country.Don't know what happened to them that night,they weren't even loud that i can remember.Big disappointment,although BJM put on a good show that night.It was Valentines Day,and extremely cold.I have DM's live album Bomp sent me,it's yours if you want it.It won't be getting any rotation around here.
Dead Meadow alt country? Are you confusing them with somebody else? I have that live album thanks for the offer though. Dead Meadow sound more like Black Sabbath than they do like alt country to me.
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Maybe he is confusing Dead Meadow with Canyon. Some would call Canyon alt-country.
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Originally posted by bags:
That's my problem with Superchunk, I think. His voice is so tinny and weak, it drives me nuts, *especially* live.
TINNY!!!! WOOOHOOO monty python
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Maybe he is confusing Dead Meadow with Canyon. Some would call Canyon alt-country.
Christ Rhett,do you really think i would drive 3 hours and not know who i was seeing.I'm telling you guys they were about as psychedelic as Joan Baez.So scratch the alt country reference before you blow a gasket and let me just say they were highly disapointing and were in no way rocking.Do you consider clem snide alt country?If so,they were comparable.If not,then I'm at a loss.
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Originally posted by jadetree:
Originally posted by SPARX:
. Dead Meadow sound more like Black Sabbath than they do like alt country to me. [/b]
Give me "We sold our souls for rock n roll" any day!!
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I like Clem Snide, but they're certainly not alt-country.
If I like Clem Snide, will I like Dead Meadow?
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I like Clem Snide, but they're certainly not alt-country.
If I like Clem Snide, will I like Dead Meadow?
Yes,if they played as they did that night.what genre would you classify CS as?
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I like Clem Snide, but they're certainly not alt-country.
From all music guide:
Formed in New Jersey
Years Active
Group Members Eef Barzelay Jeff Marshall Jason Glasser
Genres Rock
Styles Alternative Country-Rock, Indie Rock
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Sparx not trying to argue with you here, but to me Dead Meadow sound nothing like Clem Snide.
http://www.matadorrecords.com/mpeg/dead_meadow/dead_meadow-good_moanin.mp3 (http://www.matadorrecords.com/mpeg/dead_meadow/dead_meadow-good_moanin.mp3)
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Originally posted by jadetree:
Sparx not trying to argue with you here, but to me Dead Meadow sound nothing like Clem Snide.
http://www.matadorrecords.com/mpeg/dead_meadow/dead_meadow-good_moanin.mp3 (http://www.matadorrecords.com/mpeg/dead_meadow/dead_meadow-good_moanin.mp3)
I understand.I'm only telling you what i heard from them on that night.maybe they were experimenting.if so,the experinment failed miserably.I've heard alot of their music,and was anticipating their show..Why do you think i was so surprised.
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Clem Snide just sounds like an indie pop/rock band to me. They're no more alt-country than the Pernice Brothers or the current incarnation of Wilco to me.
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Originally posted by SPARX:
I understand.I'm only telling you what i heard from them on that night.maybe they were experimenting.if so,the experinment failed miserably.I've heard alot of their music,and was anticipating their show..Why do you think i was so surprised.
ok, I can't imagine them doing that and I can see why it would have failed if they did, I wonder if they were trying to be more like BJM for the night or something
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Clem Snide just sounds like an indie pop/rock band to me. They're no more alt-country than the Pernice Brothers or the current incarnation of Wilco to me.
There's where the disagreement lies.i consider that to be alt country.Granted not my genre of expertise,so apologies to all diehard alt country fans.i promise not to verbally dabble in such unknown waters again.But I gotta tell ya Rhett,you'd have loved em.And Jadetree,be glad you missed that show,you may have never touched a DM album again.
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What would make the Pernice Brothers alt-country? Sounds like indie pop-rock to me.
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I gotta say I too am a little perplexed by the inclusion of "Dead Meadow" and "alt-country" in the same sentence. I mean, we all know that Dead Meadow is the sound of warm, runny honey...soft dewy grass...vibrant crackling bonfires....dark rumbling thunder.
Then again, I wasn't at that particular show.
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I agree completely. And if Pernice Bros. is alt-country, then the Bigger Lovers song I'm listening to right now is alt-country as well.
I think NOT!
Originally posted by Bubba:
What would make the Pernice Brothers alt-country? Sounds like indie pop-rock to me.
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Originally posted by Bubba:
What would make the Pernice Brothers alt-country? Sounds like indie pop-rock to me.
I'm not that familiar with Pernice Bros work,but wasn't Joe in scud mountain boys?They would have had to have changed their sound alot from that to not be considered alt country.That's the trouble with labeling things,it can go different ways depending on one's own definition and knowledge for their whole body of work.And granted,my opinion comes from his previous work.So,I could be totally out of line here.Has his sound changed drastically?
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Originally posted by ggw™:
I gotta say I too am a little perplexed by the inclusion of "Dead Meadow" and "alt-country" in the same sentence. I mean, we all know that Dead Meadow is the sound of warm, runny honey...soft dewy grass...vibrant crackling bonfires....dark rumbling thunder.
Then again, I wasn't at that particular show.
i wish somebody else would have been.I'm beginning to doubt my own credibility on this one,and i was sober :eek: GGW,did you get the Black album
i left for you?
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aren't some current alt-country artists influcenced by 60's country rock artists like the byrds, gram parsons, and neil young. some of whom are the roots of power pop. which is why some power pop have a countryish feel in the harmonies particularily.
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Originally posted by SPARX:
GGW,did you get the Black album
i left for you?
No. Which one of those deadbeats did you entrust it with?
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Joe Pernice has changed his sound quite a bit from Scud Mtn Boys to Pernice Brothers.
Yes, the Scuds cound be considered alt-country, minus the twanginess. They were New Englanders, after all.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
]No. Which one of those deadbeats did you entrust it with?
moi,
when are you coming out to play?
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
aren't some current alt-country artists influcenced by 60's country rock artists like the byrds, gram parsons, and neil young. some of whom are the roots of power pop. which is why some power pop have a countryish feel in the harmonies particularily.
Yes.i'd agree.Like I said previously,i'm certainly no authority on the genre,but that's what comes to mind when I relive the sound of DM on that fateful night.Maybe i need to go back to the Ryan Adams Institute of Musical Knowledge and take a few refresher courses.
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Originally posted by Bubba:
Originally posted by ggw™:
]No. Which one of those deadbeats did you entrust it with?
moi,
when are you coming out to play? [/b]
Check with Jag as well,i left 4 mixes with her to distribute.She said she would dupe some copies for you guys.
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I can see the connection between power pop and alt-country. Probably explains why someone as narrow minded as me could like both.
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Originally posted by Bubba:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
]No. Which one of those deadbeats did you entrust it with?
moi,
when are you coming out to play? [/b]
Good question.
I don't see any good shows this week. But definitely next week. Grandaddy & Super Furry or Built to Spill. Will you be at those?
Have you listened to the disc?
BTW -- thanks for the discs you gave me. Lots of good stuff. I'll make you a copy of some Dischord stuff as a thank you.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
[ Grandaddy & Super Furry
I will be at that one......
I have not listened to Sparx discs, I forgot. I will try and listen tonight. His GBV show that he gave to Jadetree seemed rather amusing though......
I did wonder if you had listened to any of that stuff, I will set an exam for you, by the time of the show, so you better know it all by then.
Dischord, GREAT :roll: !!
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Originally posted by Bubba:
[
I have not listened to Sparx discs, I forgot. I will try and listen tonight. !! [/QB]
I brought 4 discs clocking in at 80 minutes apiece of various cuts from new releases of the past year or so.Hopefully all of you can find something new to your liking!
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I was at the Dead Meadow show in question. It was at Metro with BJM, and I think the first band was Skywave. I had never heard DM before but I didn't think country. I sounded more "wall of sound" and ultra-loud stoner groove to me. Liked it, but thought they should have passed around a joint.
BTW: Loved the article. It is the first time I have seen the word "dick" used in "print" as a verb. Nice one. See article, end of the third paragraph from the last.