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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: vansmack on March 07, 2006, 07:18:00 pm
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Anybody doing this yet?
March 07, 2006, 11:00 AM ET
Bain, Ignition Go LaLa For Used-CD Venture
By Brian Garrity, N.Y.
Warner Music Group financial backer Bain Capital and Ignition Partners have invested $9 million in lala.com, a used CD and e-commerce business that is applying a Netflix-meets-MySpace concept to trading second-hand albums.
Users of the site, currently in beta, can list CDs they own and create a wishlist of titles they want. They then exchange CDs through the mail in pre-paid envelopes that the company supplies to all registered users. The company does not support trading of burned CDs. Any user reported to be distributing burned discs will be banned from the site.
Members pay a shipping charge of $1 for every disc they receive. There is no charge to users shipping discs.
The prospect of a social networking site that allows music fans to swap their CDs among each other free of charge is raising eyebrows in music industry circles. However, executives at Palo Alto-based Lala claim that the venture is legit.
Company co-founders, Billy Alvarado and Anselm Baird Smith maintain that the business model is covered by the first-sale doctrine -- an exception to the U.S. Copyright Act that allows consumers to sell or give away CDs they have purchased. They also believe the site will expand legitimate sales.
If an album is not immediately available for trade, members can buy the CD new or as a digital download through Lala.
"Trading CDs is an affordable way to experiment and try new music," says Nguyen, "but when you find that album you can't wait to enjoy, we offer it as a new CD or as a download and often, with additional bonus material at retail price." In an effort to curry favor with the music industry, the company is pledging to give 20% of its revenues to artists. It has been not been determined which collection societies Lala will work with.
http://www.lala.com/ (http://www.lala.com/)
If you are part of the Beta, kindly send me an invite: vansmack@msn.com
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Wait a minute. Didn't Kosmo try to start something like this a couple years ago? Or was that someone else that I know in another corner of cyberspace? From what I know of, it never went anywhere but, conceptually speaking, it is a good idea. I'm not sure how it will work as a business model though.
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I tried this informally a couple years back, but no one took the bait... not quite sure what sets this apart from eBay, Half, etc other than the artists get "20%" of the sales price. Djangos has a good online CD service. and as someone points out on Coolfer's blog this idea came and went awhile back with ShareIt. Plus, telling people to delete MP3s after sending on the CD, is going draw attention from the RIAA. And the RIAA is trying to turn heat up on the legality of copying files to iPods.
Of course why buy used when all you need to is wait for one of those high priced record store chains to start closing stores with 40% off sales.
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Got me an invite. Here are the details:
How It Works
Trading made easy...
As a 'la la' member, you can trade the CDs you have for music you really want. Trading CDs through 'la la' is easy.
Start by picking CDs you want and listing the CDs you have.
'la la' finds members that have the CDs you want. Members ship CDs directly to you.
'la la' also notifies you when members request the CDs you have. The number of CDs you receive will depend on how many CDs you ship to other members.
Experience 'la la' for free!
Registering for 'la la' is FREE! You can browse member collections and playlists, search for specific artists and albums, or sample 'la la' recommendations. There are no upfront commitments.
Pay only $1 for CD!
Once you decide to start trading, you pay only for CDs received from your Want List. There are no hidden costs or monthly fees. Every CD you receive costs only $1 plus a standard shipping charge of $0.49. The number of CDs you receive will depend on how many CDs you ship to other members.
List with no obligation - you're in control!
You're NEVER obligated to ship CDs in your Have List. When someone requests one of your CDs, you decide if and when to ship the CD. The more you ship, the more you get.
Easy Shipping
'la la' provides you with stamped envelopes, so all you need to do is drop your CD in the mail!
You never pay anything to send CDs.
Your first shipping kits will arrive 3-5 days after you complete registration.
'la la' guarantees quality
'la la' guarantees its members' satisfaction. If a CD is not received in good condition, we will credit your fee and make it a priority to fulfill your request.
'la la' is legal
Like any used CD store, 'la la' is 100% legal!
Every CD you receive from other 'la la' members is yours to keep. Also, since we don't condone pirated music, only original CDs are being traded.
'la la' is fair
'la la' is based on trading. All members ship CDs in order to receive others. The more music you list, the better your chances are of receiving the music you want.
Cancel at any time
You can cancel your account at any time.
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hmmm this might actually be something worth trying out.. i have a number of cds that are duplicates between kosmette's and myself that aren't going to bring in big bucks selling but might be of interest for trading... can you spare an invite?
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
can you spare an invite?
I'm not authorized yet, but as soon as I am you'll be getting one.
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smackie provided the hookup i'm going to give this one a whirl. given that most used shops don't give more than $4 to buy a cd and then turn around to sell for twice that. being able to swap a little listened to cd for a one i want for $1.50 and Netflix ease is worth giving a shot.
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It's going to take forever to add my collection - I'm just going to click the "Have" link as I see albums I have. Thus far, I'm liking the interface, but have yet to ask for or offer a CD. Maybe this weekend.
It's kind if cool how they prioritize who gets what. The more you send to others, the quicker you get what you want. It also seems ripe for copying and moving on.
There is also a similar DVD model: http://www.peerflix.com/ (http://www.peerflix.com/)
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When you add an album that you don't want to share, immediately mark that you don't want to give up your copy.
I added about 75 Cd's yesterday and was flooded with emails telling me that my CD was requested by a member.
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Well so far for a rarely listened to Bright Eyes CD, I will be getting BMRC, The Darkness, and Green Day. Don't mock my need to rock, or else I'll post your screen name on some wall somewhere.
Wonder what their policy is towards swapping CDs that are labeled as Promo, Not For Sale.. got some of those cluttering up the joint someone might want. Will email and findout..
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Wow, I think this could work for me as well. After I moved, my CDs are all in boxes and simply get shuffled around.
Smackie's point, though, is a good one -- getting your list up!
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I requested an invitation yesterday and already received one. Thanks for the info, smackie!
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Originally posted by vansmack:
When you add an album that you don't want to share, immediately mark that you don't want to give up your copy.
Maybe I don't understand this very well, but why would you even bother listing cds that you have, but don't want to give up?
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i would think it's so you can be linked to people with like minded musical tastes and then see what they would have on offer and spark interest in "swaping" for. maybe they need three lists, owned, trade and want...
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Kosmo, any update? I received the sleeves and dropped one in the mail. Have you received any?
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Yesterday I sent five out and got three back with two more on their way. The BRMC and Beautiful South CDs I got were in perfect condition. The Green Day a bit scratched but still playable, consistent with cheap used cds. The first sign of LaLa growing pains is over the inclusion of CD booklets as the orginial plan was for them not be mailed out with the CDs. However, many consider it a deal breaker and LaLa may change their position on it, probably raising the amount of postage and cost of the CD. I and others are adding the extra postage to ship the booklets with the CDs.
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I haven't sent or received my first CDs yet; how much does the added shipping cost, on average? That is a big sticking point with me, but we'll see what happens. Besides, only one CD of my rapidly expanding want list have been matched so far :mad:
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
I and others are adding the extra postage to ship the booklets with the CDs.
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there is certainly no requirement to add the postage and send the booklet, all three CDs I got were booklet less. Depending on how big the booklet is 24 cents is all thats required to bring the mailer up to 3 ounces, right now the plastic CD case used to mail the cds weighs almost 2 ounces so added postage is required to send even the thinnest booklet. I would guess most booklets can be sent for the additional 24 cents.
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It's just a bummer that booklets aren't sent. I just sent out my first 5 CDs today, and I included the booklets and backcover; only two of the packages need extra postage and it was only 24 cents each. Of course, the first CD I received didnt' have any artwork. Oh well.
Would anyone on here that's currently trading on lala be interested in swapping hi-res artwork online? It might be a nice way to get a more complete CD, even if its just the front and back covers. Any takers? If there are, would someone mind sending me the artwork to Pink Floyd's Animals?
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
there is certainly no requirement to add the postage and send the booklet, all three CDs I got were booklet less. Depending on how big the booklet is 24 cents is all thats required to bring the mailer up to 3 ounces, right now the plastic CD case used to mail the cds weighs almost 2 ounces so added postage is required to send even the thinnest booklet. I would guess most booklets can be sent for the additional 24 cents.
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I'm a lala member and that whole "no artwork" shipping policy really stinks. They should give you the option of saying whether you want the art or are willing to ship it. The idea of a place to find the artwork online seems like the obvious sideline business here -- brilliant idea! On the plus side, it's hard to find a good used CD store these days, and this way I don't have to get off my sorry butt.
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well it appears that the no booklet policy is going away... the feedback has been overwhemling against this policy and a change is coming...
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Excellent! This really is a great system, although now I'm wishing I had more CDs that I want to get rid of. I had the same problem as you, kosmo; tons of overlapping albums with the wife, but now that they're all listed, I'm scouring the apartment for any other discs I can get rid of.
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
well it appears that the no booklet policy is going away... the feedback has been overwhemling against this policy and a change is coming...
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changes are coming on la-la, looks they haven't been implemented yet...
edit: nicknames can be added... see if you can find me :)
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Any spare invites out there? PM me if anyone's got one.
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none yet
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Here they are, from the homepage:
You spoke up, and we listened... The following new features have been added to la la:
* Option To Send Cover Art
* Request more shipping kits directly from your Have List
* Create a 'la la' Nickname
* Let other members know when you're shipping them a CD
* Mark the CDs you don't want to ship
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
changes are coming on la-la, looks they haven't been implemented yet...
edit: nicknames can be added... see if you can find me :)
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So that's a not interested on trading scans of album covers ;) ?
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In the mail today I received:
Two sets of mailers so I can start sending out all the cd's i promised to trade last week
My first two cd's - Kids in Philly by Marah and Honey's dead by JMC.
So far so good. If you're not too concerned with the pysical media (cases, liner notes) then this is a good deal for you. Basically I'm just ripping everything lossless so if I want cd's again of the stuff I'm sending out I can just burn em...but I rarely bring cd's out of the house anymore. There's definately some stuff I'd never send away though. I like when you report that a disk shipped to you has been recieved it adds it to you "have" list aut0matically....
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so far so good on the trading via lala... have sent out 10 disks (Four Dups, Five rarely listen to, and one "Your Kidding Me Someone Actual Wants It? cd) and have gotten five back with five in transit. Other than not getting artwork for the first five which is no bigger for those discs...
Did anyone see the user that has 51 to trade and wants almost 1300 CDs :(
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Hmm...OK, if you really want lossless mp3s, I guess this is a good deal for you, but I'm not sure why else you'd use this service...
If you're a collector, you'd want the whole package, and in the case of digipaks, you can't even get liner notes through this service...
If you just want the music you can in most cases download the music...
So the audience is 1) people who want lossless mp3s and 2) people who want music that isn't available for download? which I assume is a small percentage of the music being offered for swap.
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I didn't know you could add friends. Consider yourself added.
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
and nkotb why aren't you my friend yet :(
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I certainly hope they address the Digipack issue when they settle on the artwork issue. I'm on the fence regarding sending the artwork, most the time I flip through it once and it gathers dust. However, any compilation or retrospective CD that come with liner notes on the tracks I'll probably want.
I think the service is for people who are looking to get their mitts on new music without having to sell them on ebay or to a used cd store. It can give you more bang for the buck then selling to a used cd store. As in theory it's a one to one trade, instead of having to sell two or three cd for store credit in order to get one back.
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Originally posted by nkotb:
I didn't know you could add friends. Consider yourself added.
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
and nkotb why aren't you my friend yet :(
[/b]
leave me a blurb so I can add you to my list
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Originally posted by bellenseb:
Hmm...OK, if you really want lossless mp3s, I guess this is a good deal for you, but I'm not sure why else you'd use this service...
If you're a collector, you'd want the whole package, and in the case of digipaks, you can't even get liner notes through this service...
If you just want the music you can in most cases download the music...
So the audience is 1) people who want lossless mp3s and 2) people who want music that isn't available for download? which I assume is a small percentage of the music being offered for swap.
Well for me the physical artifact itself isn't that important. I still consider it collecting, I'm just only collecting the music. I really just don't sit around and stare at jackets and liner notes anymore while I listen to music. So to me I'd much rather pay 1.50 for the tunes instead of 10-15 more for a cd jacket I'll look at one time when I load the thing on to my pc (I do all my listening by streaming from the pc to the home stereo or on the ipod)
And as far as downloading goes, I just got tired of the whole thing. Shitty rips, shitty tagging, not to mention i don't collect songs or singles, generally whole albums, which at times can be hard to complete.
Another think I like about la la is that you never know what's gonna show up from your want list...you just get an email saying something's been shipped. A nice little surprise.
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In the span of 5 minutes, you've doubled my knowledge of lala. I really need to sit down and play with this some more this weekend.
I've actually had great luck with the trading as well. I've sent seven CDs, and received 6 with two more on the way. As far as artwork goes, a little searching online has turned up large enough scans that I can print out and use. So far, it's a win-win.
Kosmo, that's the advantage of adding CDs that you don't want to get rid of? Is there one? You have so many CDs on your have list; are all of them up for trade? Just wondering if it would help at all to add CDs that I'm planning on keeping.
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
leave me a blurb so I can add you to my list
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The advantage of adding CDs you don't intent to trade is to help match you up with like minded users and thus get recommendation on CDs you might also enjoy. When adding CDs I found out about some Kindercore and other like minded artists I wasn't familiar with. Swan Dive, Call and Response, Northern Picture Library... That and at one point Phil Collins landed on the top of my recommended list and I was adding stuff by the bucketful to get him off the list.
There are kinks in the system as it tends to make recommendations on what you mostly recently added... It continues to suggest artists despite the fact you might own a few of their catalog i.e. Depeche Mode. They will be adding an ignore feature at some point, as I surely don't need recommendations based on liking Radiohead. The system is still pretty mainstream "alternative" heavy as well..
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What suprised me while adding CDs was that a couple people actually wanted semi-obscure favs of mine like Cliff Hillis and Sugarplastic, I'd never part with either, but its nice know others at least want them.
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Any ever hear of Over The Rhine? They came up as recommended for Guadalcanal Diary and I had never heard of them and the Allmusic profile peaks my interest a bit...
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
Any ever hear of Over The Rhine? They came up as recommended for Guadalcanal Diary and I had never heard of them and the Allmusic profile peaks my interest a bit...
Heard of but that's about it. Seems it wasn't all that long ago either.
Wait a minute. I think I may have gotten a Friend request from them on MySpace but can't be certain. (I've obviously lost track.)
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
Any ever hear of Over The Rhine? They came up as recommended for Guadalcanal Diary and I had never heard of them and the Allmusic profile peaks my interest a bit...
Meh. They get played on WOXY from time to time (being local and all). I find them entirely forgettable.
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They and another folk rock band I'd never heard of were "recommended"... I suspect all it took was me adding one lesser known act that match someone elses collection and out popped Over The Rhine and Caedmon's Call, the later being a Christian Rock act :eek: More data needs to be assimulated...
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Hey, wait a minute, I've been running across a 'Christian Rock' act or two that totally took me by complete surprise. Believe me, I generally can't stand what is known and thought of as Christian Rock but something strange is going on.
The first one is Hammock which really isn't Christian Rock, but some very Christian guys who create some incredibly good music. (Very nice guys too.) To give you an idea of how good they are, they had been hired by NASA to create some music to beam up to the astronauts. If you listen to their music, you would understand they are a perfect choice.
You ought to hear their version of Catherine Wheel's "Black Metallic"! :eek: :eek: :eek: It is outstanding!!! I placed it in my New Year's show and have used other Hammock material and plan to use even more. (FYI: The official release of that song won't be until May 2006.)
These same guys also have another band called Bridges which is your traditional Christian Rock. Personally, I can't stomach that band even though they are clearly quality musicians.
And then there is Gazer (who are much more Rock than Shoegaze); another band placed in my NY's 2006 show; who are from Little Rock, Arkansas. I swear, when I first ran across them, I truly thought they were taking the piss by using the Christian label. None of the music that I've heard from them seemed to indicate any Christian or religious leanings. Also, if you see their pictures, they look like a bunch of Glam/Punk/Hard Rock living hard musicians. Well, the singer looks kind of Jon Bon Joviish but I suspect that's more genetics than anything. It's the other guys who have that complete Rocker look. Then as I delved even further into the band, I realized that these guys were dead serious! They even met in church!!! Believe me, I had to rethink my interst in them a bit but, damn, I still like their music.
Ran across a couple other bands who claim to be Christian Rock who don't seem to be at all. I don't fully get it. I must have attended the wrong churches all of these years.
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
Any ever hear of Over The Rhine? They came up as recommended for Guadalcanal Diary and I had never heard of them and the Allmusic profile peaks my interest a bit...
They are on one of your Paste magazine samplers - I like the song on the sample (Born)
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I'm sure there is good christian rock, the one mentioned was of the WOW Hits compilation variety...
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So far very good in lala land... have traded 31 CDs 17 sent out 14 back... my karma rating must be going up as the number of cds i can have in transit has gone up from five. so far have sent out many dups, unlistened to and a couple cds picked up used for $5 to stoke the fire. still have a number of dups not added to the list...
my only concern is figuring out what cds i can my mitts on right now that i'm really interested. as my current want list contains several imports and long out of print cds not likely to available anytime soon...
so far i've gotten a couple cds i never bother replacing the vinyl version of... Prince "Controversy" and early Underworld w/guitars CD. CDs i never bother getting around to, Postal Service and the recent Killing Joke record with Grohl on drums.
Hadn't listen the Prince album in years and WOW is it amazing... Should be required listening for all those retro synth/guitar bands cluttering the landscape at the moment. So if this record were released today and were in the spolight would it be considered more controversial than it was in the 80s given the current climate?
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My Karma level on Lala has been pretty good, but it definitely seems to be rewarding me for quick turn-arounds, especially after reaching 20+ traded CDs. In the past two days, I've shipped out 7 discs, and am set to receive 4 more.
I would highly recommend this to anyone with CDs to spare. I've come close to completeing my Husker Du and Pink Floyd sets, and even managed to get Vampire On Titus.
I just wish they'd give me some invites...
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I think i've got some swaps going with some La La deadbeats....3 cd's that I shipped out on the 16th are still showing up as in transit. It's starting to piss me off...why can't these losers mark them as recieved??? They've got to be there by now. I'm also still waiting on a few that were supposedly shipped to me on the same day.
Other than requiring people to show their nick name so you can message someone to see if they sent or recieved something, I'm not sure how La La could get a handle on this type of thing.
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Apparently, after 3 weeks they automatically show up as received. I had the same concern; a few discs I sent out first (two and half weeks ago) were just confirmed. Maybe that's why I'm getting this rush of new discs.
Originally posted by Chaz, Lover of all Beings:
I think i've got some swaps going with some La La deadbeats....3 cd's that I shipped out on the 16th are still showing up as in transit. It's starting to piss me off...why can't these losers mark them as recieved??? They've got to be there by now. I'm also still waiting on a few that were supposedly shipped to me on the same day.
Other than requiring people to show their nick name so you can message someone to see if they sent or recieved something, I'm not sure how La La could get a handle on this type of thing.
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Just found out Chaz's Deepest and Darkest secret via lala... that he is a devote of Lindsay Lohan, oh wait that means because i'm "swapping" that cd with him... nevermind
still digging lala, getting great cds happy with the turn around time. there is still much moaning about shipping cds with and without booklets, delivery, deadbeats etc... So far out of 25 sent one appears to be a dud, although the person getting it hasn't logged on since signing up, which of course could mean anything. It appears using zip+4 really helps, two cds I sent out on friday afternoon arrived in michigan on monday.
It appears that supply is exceeding demand at the moment because unless your quick on the mark about agreeing to ship, another will already have traded it. Which is a good thing especially as the service gets bigger. I've lost out on trading five or so CDs, which means they'll likely go at a later date.
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and it may just be coincidence, but its possibly lala is now assigning trades based on location as my last three trades went to va, dc and ny
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at the moment i've got one invite for lala, pm me your email address if you'd like it...
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invite taken, more to come hopefully
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Well the deadbeats I was dealing with finally checked in and my karma's good again. I've got 7 cd's on the way!
No invites for me yet, but I'll post when I do.
They seem to be working out some of the kinks in the system. I wonder how many members there are so far??
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I was given a few La La invites today...PM me if anyone's interested.
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my best guess is that it's around 6500... one of the support people hinted at how to findout a users # and the highest i could find so far is 6300 as of today... they added a whole lot of people when the beta went public i.e. 2xx on 3/6 to 8xx when i joined a day later.
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I have a few I could spare as well. PM me if interested.
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If you don't mind my asking, what kind of stuff are people requesting? That is, are people asking for greatest hits collections, really obscure stuff, currently popular albums, stuff from the past?
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Originally posted by ledooh:
If you don't mind my asking, what kind of stuff are people requesting? That is, are people asking for greatest hits collections, really obscure stuff, currently popular albums, stuff from the past?
I can't speak for La La at large, but a sampling of my "Have" list that is currently being requested by other users:
Interpol
The Sonics
Nick Drake
Libertines
Bowie
Big Star
Wire
Some of the Cd's I've either received or that are on the way:
Operation Ivy
Snow Patrol (courtesy of Kosmo)
Dead Meadow
Springsteen
Dylan
Greenhornes
Jesus Mary Chain
Devo
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Originally posted by ledooh:
If you don't mind my asking, what kind of stuff are people requesting? That is, are people asking for greatest hits collections, really obscure stuff, currently popular albums, stuff from the past?
It would appear all of the above applies... I've added CDs that I thought were pretty obscure or lesser known that people have wanted. Almost any act playing one of the big festivals or currently touring is likely to get requested. Stuff from the past is being swapped. Really obscure out of print stuff isn't likely to swapped anyways. Have gotten a couple CDs added as a whim that I didn't expecting to get, but was pleased to do so.
Here's the breakdown for my 63 trades...
Most of my sent stuff has been duplicates along with stuff I just don't listen to anymore. Have also been picking up some five dollar and under used CDs to keep the process going. I hit a mother lode of two to three dollar used cds in excellent condition at the Sam Goody store going out of business at Montgomery Mall. Two of which were snapped up instantly...
Sent
Bigger Lovers
Interpol
Bright Eyes x2
TVOTR
The Coral
Snow Patrol
Yeah Yeah Yeahs
Sia
Weezer
Five for Fighting
Jethro Tull
Myracle Brah
Posies
Aimee Mann
Idlewild
Jesus Jones
Brendan Benson
Smashing Pumpkins
XTC
Aqualung
Blur
Wilco
James
Fatboy Slim
Midnight Oil
Guano Apes
Have Gotten
Iggy Pop
Beautiful South x2
Everything But The Girl - Back To Mine & Ben Watt's Buzzin both compilation CDs
Jack Drag
Ultravox
Call and Response (discovered via Lala)
Kirsty McCall x 2
Big Audio Dynamite & The Clash
Ultravox
Glen Phillips
Beth Orten & Fine Young Cannibals - Remix Collections
Prince
Postal Service
Killing Joke
Early Underworld
BRMC
Darkness
Green Day
These are for Kosmette :)
Wham!
Kylie x2
Cake
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LaLa definitely has some tough challendges ahead of them... Do they stick to the orginial swap music not artwork model or do they also attempt to cater to the more vocal new users who want it be a huge used cd where complete packing is sent.
The more pressing issue is that there is definitely more supply than demand for popular titles. The email notification system in place isn't working at all. So unless you are monitoring the system all the time you'll likely to miss out on being able to send out CDs several other people also have available... Requests for lessen know CDs can linger a bit longer
The recommendation engine and the interface needs tweaking but thats why they are in beta mode until July...
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
These are for Kosmette :)
Wham!
Kylie x2
Cake [/b]
Yeah you can add a Mary J. Blige cd to my reveived list for Mrs. Chaz.
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Looking at my want list of about 175 CDs, which includes stuff already sent to me. I could reasonably expect to get a third of that, the other two thirds are items along the line of compliations either from the UK or out of print. Of the hot one third so far I've gotten half of them, so it's working for me...
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did anyone see the tidbit in the feedback section about how they are going to start billing members 30 days out? that means several free cds for moi!
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Does this mean our first 30 days are free? Or that they bill every 30 days, regardless of when you signed up?
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
did anyone see the tidbit in the feedback section about how they are going to start billing members 30 days out? that means several free cds for moi!
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the way i read it the first 30 days are free, see the feedback page under the billing topic...
i'm now considering more agressive swapping policy to see what i can get. i.e. out with the little listened to DCFC
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That's awesome news. I think I'm just hitting the one month mark now, which rules. I've been getting some strange glances from the misses every day when the lala packages show up...
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
the way i read it the first 30 days are free, see the feedback page under the billing topic...
i'm now considering more agressive swapping policy to see what i can get. i.e. out with the little listened to DCFC
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I'm unhappy to report that the first 30 days are not free; I just got a bill for almost $40 bucks. Time to slow down my shipping, I think...
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
the way i read it the first 30 days are free, see the feedback page under the billing topic...
i'm now considering more agressive swapping policy to see what i can get. i.e. out with the little listened to DCFC
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yeah not quite sure what to make of flip flop on that... it may have been something once planned and decided against at last minute. I keep hoping someone will say but in this other thread this... not sure if I want to whiner and point that out.
and the whole slowing shipping is something i'm considering as well.. would a better stream of new releases vs back catalog
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note to self: no more posting with the treo late at night...
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that post should read
blah blah blah bunch teases blah blay on hold blah blah bleech back catagory good blah blah need more new stuff blah blah
addendum: i'm a total doofus
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Music
A Swap Meet for Your Used CDs
The Wall Street Journal Online
By Vauhini Vara
New Web Sites Let Users Trade Music, DVDs and Games; An Unsuccessful Hunt for Elvis
If compact discs are practically obsolete, imagine what used CDs must be worth. Some new Web sites are betting the answer is something.
The sites, with names like Peerflix, BarterBee, TitleTrader and Lala (which launches today), are aiming to give consumers a second lease on life on their CDs, movies and videogames by allowing them to trade them for better ones. In the age of the iTunes Music Store and digital devices like the iPod, the sites are making an unusual gamble: that downloadable media won't displace people's collections of CDs, DVDs or shrink-wrapped videogames anytime soon.
For all the buzz around digital music, online downloads still make up fewer than 6% of music sales world-wide, according to the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry, an industry trade group. An even smaller proportion of movies and videogames are sold as Web downloads, according to analysts.
Instead of receiving cash in exchange for, say, a copy of the Who's "Quadrophenia," members of the new sites collect points that can be used to buy other CDs, or other media like digital video discs, from fellow members. For now, Lala lists only CDs, while Peerflix focuses on DVDs. Other sites, like BarterBee and TitleTrader LLC, let people swap between categories -- a movie for a videogame, for example.
Here's how the sites work: After signing up online, you can create a list of used CDs, DVDs or videogames that you're willing to sell. If another member asks to buy something on your list, the site will notify you, usually by email. Once you agree to a sale, you have a few days to put the item in the mail. Some sites help with that step: Lala sends its members prepaid envelopes and CD cases, while Peerflix displays a page with an address on it that can be printed and folded into an envelope. BarterBee gives members the option of buying its branded envelopes, but they can also use their own.
The more items you sell, the more points you collect. (Some sites, but not Lala, also let you buy points outright.) You can make purchases once you've gathered enough points, plus a fee of $1 or more, payable via credit card. The seller gets the points, and the Web site collects the cash. Most of the sites rely on this cash for revenue, though some also feature advertising.
The new Web sites, which started to appear within the past year, aren't the first to hit on the idea of high-tech bartering. At FrugalReader.com, bookworms swap their own dog-eared novels for fresh ones. At SwapStyle.com, members trade pinstripe jackets and high-heel boots. A recent post in the "barter" section of Craigslist, the online classified-ads site, offered a new laptop computer in exchange for a van.
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FYI for those interested in cover art...
I've found a pretty great site (http://www.mega-search.net/) that seems to link you to database collections of high-res CD artwork. Out of the 25 or so CD's I've received, I've either recieved or found artwork for all but two (and one was simply because it's original case was a digipack).
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Okay, I've finally got up and running (user id - Throat Warbler Mangrove). The no artwork/jewel case policy is almost a deal breaker, but I'm hoping this will change.
Isn't this a one for one trading policy? I've agreed to ship The Joshua Tree and Bitches Brew (Disc 2). In return, I have Setting Sons, Two Wheels Good and Avalon coming.
How long does it take to receive your packet of mailers?
What's the deal with the Green, Yellow, Red lights for "My trades". My went from green to red in 24 hours.
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The artwork thing is hit or miss. I've been receiving far more artwork now than when I first joined. It seems that if you send the art, they'll try to match you up with people that also send it. Of course, as with most things on lala, this might just be coincidental.
It pretty much works on a 1-for-1 basis, although at any given time, you may have more CDs out than in, or vice versa. It does seem to keep it fairly even though.
The colored lights indicate your "karma rating." Green means you're good to go, and have sent as many CDs as you've received or more. Yellow means you've received more than you've sent, and red means you've received WAY more than you've sent. I believe it's used for trading purposes internally, but don't worry; I started out in the red, but have been almost strictly green since then. And because the trades are determined by the system, there's not much you can do about changing it yourself.
ALthough I have no evidence, it seems that you'll stay red for the beginning, during your "testing period" if you will. Lala seems to give you a trial run to see if you'll actually trade before giving you the full go-ahead.
Of course, Kosmo will now correct everything I've typed :)
Originally posted by renton007:
Okay, I've finally got up and running (user id - Throat Warbler Mangrove). The no artwork/jewel case policy is almost a deal breaker, but I'm hoping this will change.
Isn't this a one for one trading policy? I've agreed to ship The Joshua Tree and Bitches Brew (Disc 2). In return, I have Setting Sons, Two Wheels Good and Avalon coming.
How long does it take to receive your packet of mailers?
What's the deal with the Green, Yellow, Red lights for "My trades". My went from green to red in 24 hours.
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i usually get the envelopes from them in three days...
at this point half of the cds that have arrived co=ame with artwork with some of those sent out before the artwork became an issue. but thats not a real deal breaker for me.
the lights indicate what your is trading status. new users are only allowed to ship and get up to five CDs at time. the amounts increase over time as your "karma" goes up. karma is based on you proving that you are indeed shipping promptly, etc.
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should have just let nkotb answer :D
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right now my status is yellow and i'm not in the mood to be shipping many more out at the moment... think i'm going ro remain in a holding pattern until they give us more control of what we can get from our want lists. in fact at some point i'll be claiming one of NKOTBs ideas as my own in the feedback forum... A method brillently portrayed in "Thank You For Smoking".
and their system of automatically marking people who do not acknowledge getting CDs works... i had open trade to an person who hadn't logged on since signing up get credit for a the cd sent them.
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I'm dealing with another deadbeat now....he supposedly shipped Feathers by Dead Meadow over 2 weeks ago and I've heard neither hide not hair...
I wish they would require members to diplay screen names to people they are sending disks to...all this anonymity takes a lot of the accountability out of it.
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After 14 days you'll get the option to indicate the cd hasn't arrived and if the CD is available they'll have some else ship instead. I had that happen once and the replacement copy arrived the same day as the orginial one which was came three weeks after it was "shipped". I've got one in transit which should have arrived in NYC by now and it's driving a bit batty as the shippee is an active member and all.
The anonymity issue is one of the items that should be address shortly...
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Best find on lala so far...
<img src="http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc000/c015/c01503l32g6.jpg" alt=" - " />
I'm PSYCHED!
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so you where the one that got that... there is some discussion in the feedback section about that very cd and it's possible rareness.
don't know about the rest of you but i'm in a serious holding pattern right now in LaLa land... large market and/or back catalog stuff is easy to trade and get... but the stuff off the beaten path is a bit of a hard sell and good luck getting anything new, even if it is pitchfork or whatever approved..
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Yeah, I was incredibly surprised. Some items on my want list are obvious pipe dreams, and I definitely assumed this was one.
We shall see if it's an authentic copy of not, but the guy sending it told me inserts are included. Very cool.
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
so you where the one that got that... there is some discussion in the feedback section about that very cd and it's possible rareness.
don't know about the rest of you but i'm in a serious holding pattern right now in LaLa land... large market and/or back catalog stuff is easy to trade and get... but the stuff off the beaten path is a bit of a hard sell and good luck getting anything new, even if it is pitchfork or whatever approved..
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Well ya might have just covered a couple months of lala trading by getting that dee dee cd...
http://product.half.ebay.com/Standing-In-The-Spotlight_W0QQtgZinfoQQprZ3108630 (http://product.half.ebay.com/Standing-In-The-Spotlight_W0QQtgZinfoQQprZ3108630)
i wonder what the vinyl of thats worth, seeing as mine's in "mint" condition :p
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You can finally send messages to anyone you're trading with, regardless of whether or not their username is public. A big improvement. I've laid off LaLa for a few weeks but just shipped out a few so I should have some stuff coming my way soon.
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It might help, but there will still exist deadbeats who accept a CD and never log in again. I suspect the Nick Drake sent out will suffer the faith of being in transit 21 days even with the occasionally blurb to undisclosed.
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Yeah i never did get my dead meadow disc...they guy said he sent it but I never got it. My local post office does suck though.
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My biggest fear though is once they go public the amount of users who are total pain in the asses will multiple... I follow the feedback board way to much and it never ceases to amaze what the petty things that get people wound up. The latest being "I don't mark on CDs why should I accept them", or "I got a CD with bonus tracks on it and I want the original".
The whole why would anyone want the artwork crowd is really annoying. They are so insist that their method of throwing out booklets, etc and stuffing their CDs in binders is the only it should be done. They also tend to have really lousy taste in music, and hopefully I'll never get any of their shite because those CDs aren't probably in the best shape either.
I think there is developing at the core a really great group of flexible traders who aren't buying nu-metal, top 40, DMB shite and wanting to trade with like minded folks. There was mention of a friends with benefits option which would enable one on one trading for instance. Which will probably be much needed when more of the unwashed masses arrive in July...
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Originally posted by Chaz, Lover of all Beings:
Yeah i never did get my dead meadow disc...they guy said he sent it but I never got it. My local post office does suck though.
i got a cd three weeks after it was sent, it arrived the same day as the replacement sent a week earlier.
the one bad trade i've gotten was when some sent me the sampler version of the cd requested. it only had six of the tracks from the actual release, thats a case of what where they thinking...
and on the flip side, i had someone send me a kind snail letter telling me there was a delay in sending out a cd because they hadn't gotten the starter kit yet. which is fine, but blurbing on the website would have been easier :)
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The only incident I've had is The Weirdo's cd that was supposedly shipped to me on the 14th still hasn't arrived.
Thus my Karma is red, even though all album's I sent were received w/in 10 day (that includes the time it took me to get my starter kit).
So far I like the service, but I think taking your music to a used store for credit and walking out with something new is slightly better.
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Originally posted by renton007:
The only incident I've had is The Weirdo's cd that was supposedly shipped to me on the 14th still hasn't arrived.
Thus my Karma is red, even though all album's I sent were received w/in 10 day (that includes the time it took me to get my starter kit).
So far I like the service, but I think taking your music to a used store for credit and walking out with something new is slightly better.
the red light should mean you need to send more out before you can get more in... i believe at first you need to have at least one outgoing before you can get any... over time the balance can shift the other way, but not more than one or two on the getting side.
point taken about trading in used for new, but some of the stuff i'm parting with wouldn't get much in trade anyways, which is why i've been holding on to them and glad lala exists
:D
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Thanks for the clairification.I thought the Karma would be based on how quickly you ship, the condition of your cd and the inclusion of art work.
I guess I'll be in the red for awhile as I have most of my collection marked as "Keep It". I feel slightly penalized for lack of activity though.
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i understand the fustration, although lala does have to put some safeguards into prevent abuse, i.e. people getting cds without actually sending them out
ultimately lala wasn't setup to be a used cd store but a swapping service, and that maybe the biggest hurdle they need to overcome as more and more sign on. i haven't yet reached the point of boomeranging cds yet and found a bunch of really cheap cds to trade at the monkey mall sam goody store closing sale which were snapped up.
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Here's an interesting tidbit.... if your out going deficient is high than you get a higher priority on whats on your want list. with that said, i could ship any number of mainstream "indie" titles instantly but it appears that getting a like minded replacement isn't so instantaneous. i.e. one would think getting the new Robert Pollard or Ted Leo would be easy given the demand for Bloc Party or Death Cab for Cutie. i suppose i could send out one of those coveted CDs and see how fast I could get Jenny Watson back as an experiment.
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I still like the informal trading idea.
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Out of 74 "Received" trades I had 10 unfulfilled. What's about the other LaLa'ers? Do you have the similar numbers or are mine high?
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In 200 received CDs, I think I've only had 2 not ever arrive and maybe one or two more that were unplayable. And I generally get all of the artwork too, which is a nice touch.
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out of 249 CDs gotten i've had problems with four non-arrivals, 1 broken in transit and 1 truly unplayable disc. I had one arrive after the 21 day limit and gotten three blatant promos... since going artwork only July i've had no problems with the conditions of my trades and get the tray card sent most of the time.
it would appear that people who have the artwork to send keep better care of their CDs vs those that stuff them in binders. it's also a trend that the more popular the CD is the more likely it's going to arrived banged up, mistreated by those with cd visors in their cars, etc...
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Wait, are sending promos considered bad form? I have a bunch of CDs, both bought and given to me, that were promos. As long as they are the real deal why can't i send them?
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Those are the rules:
Lala does not allow the trade of Promotional CDs, and requests that members do not ship them. If you receive a Promotional Disc, please mark the trade as "Wrong CD" and we will re-add the disc to your Want List.
For more information about 'Promotional CDs' please read our Trading Policies.
Posted by redsock:
Wait, are sending promos considered bad form? I have a bunch of CDs, both bought and given to me, that were promos. As long as they are the real deal why can't i send them?
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Lala does not allow the trade of Promotional CDs, and requests that members do not ship them. If you receive a Promotional Disc, please mark the trade as "Wrong CD" and we will re-add the disc to your Want List.
What about the real deal, that was sent as a promo, with the barcode crossed out? Same disc, same art etc... but actually was a promo. That is stupid.
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I always took it to mean promotional versions of CDs, not so much CDs sent out to be promotional copies. You know the ones: they have promotional stamped on them or have different artwork, etc. I would guess that a hole punch through the UPC or having it crossed out would be fine, but then again, I don't really care if promotional copies come my way.
redsock sez:
What about the real deal, that was sent as a promo, with the barcode crossed out? Same disc, same art etc... but actually was a promo. That is stupid.
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cd with barcode punched out are not considered promos... whats specifically not allowed are those cds that have promo language stamped on the booklet or printed on the cd, a practice which apparently has been discontinued. beyond promos anything that says advance release is no good.
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I suspect that it's more a cover their ass legal thing as promotional copies are free, meant to be free, and no one can (or is supposed to) profit from them other than those who own the right to them and even that's by way of just getting the music heard for the sake of hoping to create future sales. I don't even think that music stores are supposed to sell them though I see them all the time. Maybe one of those things that just isn't enforced all that strongly or could be some loop hole I'm not familiar with like a royalty or tax thing paid to compensate. There are promos on eBay all the time too but that might too be overlooked. Don't know the details.
Holes and barcodes crossed out are usually cut outs. Merchandise that has been discounted and can't be (or shouldn't be) sold or resold at top list price dollar. There are probably rules about those too that I'm not fully aware of but they aren't promos per se though the band or lable may use an actual for sale copy and mark it as such.