930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: kosmo vinyl on December 15, 2005, 03:17:00 pm
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via boing boing
Andy Rosen's punk photos on Flickr
Underground photographer Andy Rosen posted his stunning series "London Punks 1976-1984" to Flickr. Seen here, David J. of Bauhaus and Love and Rockets. Other photos include Johnny Rotten, Siouxsie Sioux, Paul Weller, and a slew of live shots of The Clash.
photos (http://www.flickr.com/photos/punkphotos/)
source (http://www.boingboing.net/2005/12/14/andy_rosens_punk_pho.html)
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Punk mattered? I guess to a handful of people.
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Excellent.
The first colour pic though is not Jonny Rotten, it has to be Vansmack.....
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i'd rather been seen as pathetic than a complainer
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Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
Punk mattered? I guess to a handful of people.
Would you consider yourself an egregious person?
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I don't know the meaning of that word without looking it up. So I guess the answer would be no. Does my answer make me punk?
Originally posted by MTB-Markie:
Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
Punk mattered? I guess to a handful of people.
Would you consider yourself an egregious person? [/b]
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Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
I don't know the meaning of that word without looking it up. So I guess the answer would be no. Does my answer make me punk?
[/QB][/QUOTE]
You are as cantankerous as your vocabulary is pathetic.
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Is that some kind of herpes reference? Is that close enough to the syph? Someone call econo.
Originally posted by MTB-Markie:
cantankerous [/QB]
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Ha! I was thinking of one of these for Rhett:
curmudgeon
n : a crusty irascible cantankerous old person full of stubborn ideas
He's not quite old enough for that though. This might be better:
malcontent
n : A chronically dissatisfied person
And Rhett, here you go for egregious:
adj. : conspicuously bad or offensive
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What are you talking about Arlette? I'm an old man. Don't deny me that.
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ass·hole ( P ) Pronunciation Key (shl)
n. Vulgar Slang
1: insulting terms of address for people who are stupid or irritating or ridiculous [syn: bastard, cocksucker, dickhead, shit, mother fucker, motherfucker, prick, whoreson, son of a bitch, SOB]
2: excretory opening at the end of the alimentary canal [syn: anus, arse, arsehole]
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some more?
Inimical (the best adjective for Rhett)
Belligerant
Pugnacious
Truculent
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pedomorphic
puerile
callow
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But really, who did punk really matter to in this country? I graduated from a class of 200 in 1985, and I can't remember anybody who was in the couple of grades ahead of me or behind me who were into punk at all.
It seems that punk was mostly a thing for a very tiny group of jaded upper middle class suburban white kids.
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unctuous, iconoclastic, latently homosexual, pedantic
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hmmm let me see... I heard The Clash on the radio when I was in High School graduated in 80. Creem and Rolling Stone magazine were covering punk. The Ramones and the rest of the New York bands were being savored by fans. So yup Punk didn't matter in the US.
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Someone please answer my question. Or is it more "punk rock" to call Rhett names?
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Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
But really, who did punk really matter to in this country? I graduated from a class of 200 in 1985, and I can't remember anybody who was in the couple of grades ahead of me or behind me who were into punk at all.
It seems that punk was mostly a thing for a very tiny group of jaded upper middle class suburban white kids.
It was hugely influential to many musicians and spawned several different, new genres of music.
Just because it was not commerically successful does not mean it was not influential.
I forget who said this, but it's apt for this discussion:
"Only 1,000 people bought the first Velvet Underground record, but all 1,000 of them became musicians."
Not classifying VU as completely punk, just making a comparison to commerical vs. influential.
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Green Day were one of the top 10 grossing tours from last year, U2 were number 1. U2 appeared on some punk compilations and were spawned from the can do era.
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Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
But really, who did punk really matter to in this country? I graduated from a class of 200 in 1985, and I can't remember anybody who was in the couple of grades ahead of me or behind me who were into punk at all.
It seems that punk was mostly a thing for a very tiny group of jaded upper middle class suburban white kids.
Sure, but those jaded upper middle class suburban white kids are now movers and shakers, while the 200 goobers from Podunk, NY are either faceless pencil pushers or work the morning shift at the big 84 Lumber store in Oswego.
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Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
Someone please answer my question. Or is it more "punk rock" to call Rhett names?
You bile spewing sack of shit.
Punk rock!!
Isn't this like asking who alt-country really matters to. Or brit pop. Or whatever. You fucking moron.
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after combing through this:
<img src="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000DD539.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg" alt=" - " />
i've got some new favorite punk singles:
the vibrators - "baby baby"
the saints - "i'm stranded"
stiff little fingers - "alternative ulster"
the runaways - "cherry bomb"
the damned - "new rose"
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Punk rock definitely mattered to me. Even though I wasn't old enough to remember punk when it happened, I appreciate the fact that it basically brought rock'n'roll back to life and that bands like the Ramones and the Clash breathed life into music when it DESPERATELY needed it.
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the saints - "i'm stranded"
i just discovered this song within the past few months myself. holy shit is it amazing.
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another girl another planet by the only ones is the best song on there.
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Originally posted by Arlette:
I forget who said this, but it's apt for this discussion:
"Only 1,000 people bought the first Velvet Underground record, but all 1,000 of them became musicians."
bowie, i think
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The Stooges had more impact on punk rock than the New York Dolls did. I think ultimately the Ramones were the band that became a blueprint for the UK punk. I still love the LA punk scene. The Germs, X, the Screamers, the Weirdos...all of them fantastic. Though my fave punk band is probably the Buzzcocks. John Maher was/is the best punk rock drummer.
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Originally posted by MTB-Markie:
another girl another planet by the only ones is the best song on there.
yeah, that's a nice track .... it's definitely not as "punk rock" as a lot of the other ones, almost sounds like it's proto-smiths or something
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Originally posted by HoyaParanoia:
it's definitely not as "punk rock" as a lot of the other ones, almost sounds like it's proto-smiths or something
Not smiths, not at all too fast, too much flashy guitar solo nonsense, but I know what you mean. It is almost as incongruous as the Cure track in the compilation.
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Originally posted by MTB-Markie:
It is almost as incongruous as the Cure track in the compilation.
There ya go using big words again. ;)
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stiff little fingers - "alternative ulster"
killer song
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Originally posted by Arlette:
And Rhett, here you go for egregious:
adj. : conspicuously bad or offensive
I don't think a person can be egregious, though.
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Originally posted by HoyaParanoia:
Originally posted by MTB-Markie:
another girl another planet by the only ones is the best song on there.
yeah, that's a nice track .... it's definitely not as "punk rock" as a lot of the other ones, almost sounds like it's proto-smiths or something [/b]
It's power-pop. And, really, what is early punk but loud and snotty power-pop?
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So Bags, you think at heart we are all kind and wonderful?
Or you mean you think my sentence, " Rhett, would you consider yourself an egregious person?" As being poor English?
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
It's power-pop. And, really, what is early punk but loud and snotty power-pop?
But the whole flashy guitar solo-ness of it all is rather anti-punk, dontcha think?
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Originally posted by Bags:
I don't think a person can be egregious, though.
I agree. I've never seen that adjective applied to a person, always to actions.
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It is stolen from something very, very funny:
ROSS IS INTERVIEWING PAULINE FOR THE EXERCISE.
ROSS:
And youâ??re interested in the trolley job?
PAULINE:
Er, that is right. Iâ??m very interested, yes. I feel that my ability to work well as part of a team, and yet to take individual responsibility, are important factors in a job of this nature.
SHE WINKS AT THE REST OF THE GROUP, SHOWING OFF. MICKEY SMILES.
ROSS:
What work experience do you have?
PAULINE:
I left school early and started to workâ?¦
ROSS:
Oh, so you didnâ??t go to college?
PAULINE:
No, Iâ??ve had actual work experienceâ?¦
ROSS:
So you have no qualifications?
PAULINE:
Well if you donâ??t count twenty years in the employment serviceâ?¦
ROSS:
Well, no, no I donâ??t. Iâ??m talking about academic achievement â?? degrees, diplomasâ?¦
PAULINE:
Oh, come off it Ross! Shoving trolleys round Asda car park? A frigging monkey could do it!
ROSS ROLLS HIS EYES AND PURSUES A NEW LINE OF QUESTIONING.
ROSS:
Would you say youâ??re a fairly egregious person?
PAULINE:
What?
ITâ??S OBVIOUS SHE HAS NO IDEA WHAT THIS WORD MEANS.
ROSS:
Are you an egregious person? Do you have an egregious personality?
PAULINE:
Ermâ?¦yeah, yeah I do.
ROSS:
Alright, Iâ??m going to say some other words to you now, and I want you to reply wth the first thing that comes into your head, alright?
PAULINE:
Alright.
ROSS:
Home.
PAULINE:
Royston Vasey.
ROSS:
Family?
PAULINE:
Dead.
ROSS:
Friends.
PAULINE:
Pens.
ROSS:
No, friends!
PAULINE:
Pens! Theyâ??re the best friend you can have! Everything I know about people, I leant from pens. If they donâ??t work, you shake them. If they still donâ??t work â?? you chuck them away, bin them!
ROSS:
Reallyâ?¦Work.
PAULINE:
Everything. My work is everything to me.
ROSS:
Love.
PAULINE:
No. Somebody once, butâ?¦
ROSS:
And can I get your age, please, Pauline?
PAULINE:
I think thatâ??s a ladyâ??s prerogative!
ROSS:
I need to know how old you are for the recordsâ?¦
PAULINE:
Well letâ??s just say Iâ??m as old as my gumsâ?¦
ROSS:
How old are you?
PAULINE GIVES IN.
PAULINE:
Forty eight!
ROSS:
Right, thanks for coming to see us today.
PAULINE STANDS.
PAULINE:
Thank you very much, when do I start?
ROSS:
Oh, Iâ??m sorry, I canâ??t offer you this position.
PAULINE:
You what?
ROSS:
You failed the interview. You strike me as a bully. Youâ??re ill-mannered, ignorant and foul mouthed. Youâ??re not qualified for this job, and apart from anything elseâ?¦youâ??re too old, Miss. Sorry.
PAULINE LOOKS CRUSHED.
PAULINE:
But I canâ?¦
ROSS LOOKS AWAY, IGNORING HER. SHE SLOWLY GETS TO HER FEET, UNSTEADILY. THEN, REMEMBERING ITâ??S A ROLEPLAY, BRIGHTENS UP.
Good! Thank you very much. I feel that Ross handled that situation very wellâ?¦can I have my things back?
HE GIVES THEM TO HER.
Yeah, although it did make me wonder how well heâ??d handle a situation more like thisâ?¦
SHE TURNS AND SMACKS ROSS IN THE FACE WITH A BRUTAL STRIKE OF HER CLIPBOARD. ROSS WRITHES IN PAIN.
Eh? Ooh, a bully am I? Foul fucking mouthed? Now, youâ??ll eat those wordsâ?¦
SHE RIPS A SHEET OF PAPER OFF THE CLIPBOARD AND BEGINS STUFFING IT DOWN ROSSâ?? THROAT.
Egregious! Egregious! Egregious! Are you listeningâ?¦?
MICKEY GETS UP FROM HIS SEAT.
MICKEY:
Stop it, Pauline! Stop it, you nutter!
PAULINE STOPS AND TURNS TO FACE MICKEY, WONDERING IF SHE REALLY IS MAD.
PAULINE:
Oh, Mickeyâ?¦what IS egregious?
MICKEY THINKS BUT DOESNâ??T KNOW EITHER.
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Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
But really, who did punk really matter to in this country? I graduated from a class of 200 in 1985, and I can't remember anybody who was in the couple of grades ahead of me or behind me who were into punk at all.
Like alt country in the late 90s or art rock in the 70s, punk had a huge influence regardless of who and how many were listening to it in its "heyday." However, its influence on the musical landscape today (and whether it mattered) I think is irrefutable, regardless of the lack of mohawks at your high school.
An interesting aspect of this is the way that, today, "music of the 80s" is nearly always defined and reminisced as Soft Cell, The Cure, Adam Ant, Erasure, Dexy's Midnight Runners, Human League, etc. Yet back in the day, NONE of those groups were on the radio except in major, major markets like NYC, Boston and L.A., and maybe 4 kids listened to that music in my high school in 1985 (I was considered quite the eccentric for listening to that stuff). Today, you'd swear everyone had a stack full of Cure albums in 1985.
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I would agree...the Only Ones are more of a "power-pop" band in the same school of the Flamin' Groovies or the Nerves. Punk had more of the whole urban "whatchewlookin' at" kind of attitude, it was far less accomplished and more about a certain nihilistic spirit. Of course, when the Sex Pistols broke up, that pretty much screwed punk over because it wasn't viable...why should record labels invest in it if bands were just going to self-destruct? In its heyday, punk really only lasted a couple of years. Bands like the Damned and the Buzzcocks had to start altering their sound by adding keyboards or horns, and then it got watered down.
I think Chrissie Hynde said that the problem with punk is that the minute you wanted to do it for a living and become a professional musician, you strayed from what punk originally was and of course then you become something else, something more accomplished. And that's very un-punk.
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Originally posted by MTB-Markie:
So Bags, you think at heart we are all kind and wonderful?
Or you mean you think my sentence, " Rhett, would you consider yourself an egregious person?" As being poor English?
I don't think the adjective egregious can modify a person. An act can be egregious (like an overstatement, and assessment, etc -- or an action can be egregious, like behavior, name-calling, etc.), but I don't think a person can be egregious.
God KNOWS we are not all kind and wonderful. I can't remember if you are or not anymore. :cool:
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So basically you're saying punk matters now because Green Day sells 10 milion albums?
I'll give you that punk mattered to the thousands of Americans that were listened to it.
However, other than those thousands, it didn't really matter to anybody. Punk circa 1980 matters to many more people today than it did then. So it would be incorrect to say "punk back when it did matter" because to only small numbers of people did it matter.
And even today, I'd wager that punk matters to nobody I know outside of this chatboard. Then again, my family and friend set lacks aging hipsters and 15 year olds. Sorry.
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I don't see why any adjective, technically at least, cannot be used to describe a person. Certainly using your definition: "conspicuously bad or offensive" The sentence works equally well.
Rhett, would you consider yourself a conspicuously bad or offensive person?
Rhett, would you consider yourself an egregious person?
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Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
So basically you're saying punk matters now because Green Day sells 10 milion albums?
I'll give you that punk mattered to the thousands of Americans that were listened to it.
However, other than those thousands, it didn't really matter to anybody. Punk circa 1980 matters to many more people today than it did then. So it would be incorrect to say "punk back when it did matter" because to only small numbers of people did it matter.
And even today, I'd wager that punk matters to nobody I know outside of this chatboard. Then again, my family and friend set lacks aging hipsters and 15 year olds. Sorry.
Please refer back to the post where I called you a bile spewing shitbag.
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Sticks and stones may break my bones, but pussy boys who call themselves "Chaz" can never hurt me.
Originally posted by Chaz, Lover of all Beings:
Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
So basically you're saying punk matters now because Green Day sells 10 milion albums?
I'll give you that punk mattered to the thousands of Americans that were listened to it.
However, other than those thousands, it didn't really matter to anybody. Punk circa 1980 matters to many more people today than it did then. So it would be incorrect to say "punk back when it did matter" because to only small numbers of people did it matter.
And even today, I'd wager that punk matters to nobody I know outside of this chatboard. Then again, my family and friend set lacks aging hipsters and 15 year olds. Sorry.
Please refer back to the post where I called you a bile spewing shitbag. [/b]
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Originally posted by MTB-Markie:
I don't see why any adjective, technically at least, cannot be used to describe a person.
It's what separates the wheat from the chaff, grammatically speaking... ;)
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Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
And even today, I'd wager that punk matters to nobody I know outside of this chatboard. Then again, my family and friend set lacks aging hipsters and 15 year olds. Sorry.
Like you really have friends....
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Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
So basically you're saying punk matters now because Green Day sells 10 milion albums?
I'll give you that punk mattered to the thousands of Americans that were listened to it.
Nice discrepency there. And nice use of the English language.
Punk was a social and cultural phenomenon in the UK at least. It broke down a series of taboos and got headlines on a daily basis.
What more could you have hoped for from a bunch of kids making music in their garage?
Its repercussions are still readily noticeable in the music, fashion and graphic design world the rest of us fucking live in.
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Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but pussy boys who call themselves "Chaz" can never hurt me.
Well maybe I should name myself after my favorite Alt-Country star you moron. Wait, Alt Country doesn't really matter.
Now please refer back to the post where I called you a bile spewing shitbag.
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This thread is great. Funniest thing I've read in ages.
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I'm enjoying it too. :D
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Originally posted by MTB-Markie:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
It's power-pop. And, really, what is early punk but loud and snotty power-pop?
But the whole flashy guitar solo-ness of it all is rather anti-punk, dontcha think? [/b]
well power-pop in general sticks pretty close to the 3 minute formula without much guitar solos... if anything punk stripped some of the wankage from glam rock and was also taking cues from the pub rock scene. so is Elvis Costello and Joe Jackson considered punk, new wave or pop? are the Buzzcocks power-pop?
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
Originally posted by MTB-Markie:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
It's power-pop. And, really, what is early punk but loud and snotty power-pop?
But the whole flashy guitar solo-ness of it all is rather anti-punk, dontcha think? [/b]
well power-pop in general sticks pretty close to the 3 minute formula without much guitar solos... if anything punk stripped some of the wankage from glam rock and was also taking cues from the pub rock scene. so is Elvis Costello and Joe Jackson considered punk, new wave or pop? are the Buzzcocks power-pop? [/b]
In my mind, I always thought of Elvis Costello and Joe Jackson as being New Wave with a whole lot of Pop and the Buzzcocks as being early Punk with just a tinge of Pop.
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Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
So basically you're saying punk matters now because Green Day sells 10 milion albums?
I'll give you that punk mattered to the thousands of Americans that were listened to it.
However, other than those thousands, it didn't really matter to anybody. Punk circa 1980 matters to many more people today than it did then. So it would be incorrect to say "punk back when it did matter" because to only small numbers of people did it matter.
And even today, I'd wager that punk matters to nobody I know outside of this chatboard. Then again, my family and friend set lacks aging hipsters and 15 year olds. Sorry.
So it doesn't matter to people you know, ergo, it doesn't matter. Nice thinking pattern there, you're a regular logician.
Maybe you don't have a lot of diverse friendships. One of my best friends LOVES bluegrass, I can't stand it. Another friend is into opera, again I couldn't care less. But I love the differences because it exposes me to different things.
If you can use your circle of friends and family as the barometer of what matters, and exclude punk from that, well, then you live a sheltered life.
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Originally posted by MTB-Markie:
Excellent.
The first colour pic though is not Jonny Rotten, it has to be Vansmack.....
Haha! Years ago, it easily could have been.
And I'm sorry I missed this thread. Haven't had one in a while.
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Pot, kettle. Kettle, pot.
Originally posted by Chaz, Lover of all Beings:
Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but pussy boys who call themselves "Chaz" can never hurt me.
Well maybe I should name myself after my favorite Alt-Country star you moron. Wait, Alt Country doesn't really matter.
Now please refer back to the post where I called you a bile spewing shitbag. [/b]
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It's reprecussions are perhaps 1/100th the significance that hip hop culture has had.
Originally posted by MTB-Markie:
Its repercussions are still readily noticeable in the music, fashion and graphic design world the rest of us fucking live in.
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I generally don't measure the diversity of my friendships based on what type of music they prefer.
And if music taste asctually did matter when it comes to friendships...Perhaps 1% of the general population is into punk rock. I live a sheltered life because none of my friends are punk rock lovers?
I guess my whole point is that if you consider the whole population of the world as music lovers (and really, who doesn't like music to some extent?), then punk rock is just a small blip on the radar screen. Huge blip for music writers living in big American and British cities, but to the general population of the world...no, I just don't think so.
And as for punks influence on the world at large...just a minor blip.
Sorry I don't tow the party line on this one.
Originally posted by Arlette:
Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
So basically you're saying punk matters now because Green Day sells 10 milion albums?
I'll give you that punk mattered to the thousands of Americans that were listened to it.
However, other than those thousands, it didn't really matter to anybody. Punk circa 1980 matters to many more people today than it did then. So it would be incorrect to say "punk back when it did matter" because to only small numbers of people did it matter.
And even today, I'd wager that punk matters to nobody I know outside of this chatboard. Then again, my family and friend set lacks aging hipsters and 15 year olds. Sorry.
So it doesn't matter to people you know, ergo, it doesn't matter. Nice thinking pattern there, you're a regular logician.
Maybe you don't have a lot of diverse friendships. One of my best friends LOVES bluegrass, I can't stand it. Another friend is into opera, again I couldn't care less. But I love the differences because it exposes me to different things.
If you can use your circle of friends and family as the barometer of what matters, and exclude punk from that, well, then you live a sheltered life. [/b]
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Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
It's reprecussions are perhaps 1/100th the significance that hip hop culture has had.
I think that is a bold statement. For one punk started a good 15 years before hip-hop.
I dont see hip-hop having much of a positive legacy, a bit like, say, Disco from before punk.
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My wife says you and I are pathetic for being on the board at this time of night. She also says that she doesn't think that punk has much of an influence on current graphic design.
Time to stop being pathetic and sign off. bye bye.
Originally posted by MTB-Markie:
Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
It's reprecussions are perhaps 1/100th the significance that hip hop culture has had.
I think that is a bold statement. For one punk started a good 15 years before hip-hop.
I dont see hip-hop having much of a positive legacy, a bit like, say, Disco from before punk. [/b]
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http://www.eyestorm.com/artist/Jamie_Reid.aspx (http://www.eyestorm.com/artist/Jamie_Reid.aspx)
I am sitting here relaxing on the sofa with my laptop on my knee.
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Okay....just a couple of points from a bloke old enough to remember the 70's punk era.
Since when were Duran Duran, Japan, Bauhaus or even The Jam punks? To quote Paul Weller when I saw the Jam in concert, and the punks up front were spitting onto the stage....."Stop yer fookin spittin yer filthy fookers....we ain't punks so fookin pack it in"
Punk did matter, it mattered a lot to a lot of people. Music has never been the same since the punk movement, and it changed music for the better.
We would never had Greenday had it not been for the punk movement ;)
Punk was colourful, interesting, entertaining and so a-political it was extremely political. The Clash brougth politics into punk and it started to take a different direction after that.
That's my take on it anyway.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
And even today, I'd wager that punk matters to nobody I know outside of this chatboard. Then again, my family and friend set lacks aging hipsters and 15 year olds. Sorry.
Like you really have friends.... [/b]
I consider myself his friend.
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The jam were a punk band, for their first and perhaps second albums.
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Not according to Mr. Weller. ;)
The Pogues were also a punk band...and they aren't doing to bad for themselves are they?
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Well Punk certainly mattered, but did it really change music for ever? Were those early punks doing anything that much different than Garage Bands in the 60s, they may have brought a different fashion sense to it. Didn't Bill Haley, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, etc etc change music forever. Punk can't claim bringing politics to music either, seeing as folkies and thier protest songs proceeded punk. Punk is given credit for taking down the 70s ProgRock bands of 70s, but it's not like every band was doing what Yes, Pink Floyd, etc were doing with the lengthy concept albums. Grunge is credited with bringing Hair Metal down, so did it change music forever too?
I also don't really think The Ramones had as much influence on UK as some give them. Listen to the 101ers and you can hear the seeds of the Clash. Steve Jones grew up listening to 60s Mod and Glam, not the Shagrala as Ramones and New York Dolls did. I would say Jonathan Richmond and the Modern Lovers had as much influence as the Ramones.
Listen to the Glitterbest a comp of obscure singles released prior to punk and one hears a sound that became part of punk. In fact there is one song which is a dead ringer for a Buzzcocks track...
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Punk most certainly changed music.....but it's not the only genre that did. I'd say punk itself was influenced to a degree by 70's glamrock. In fact, Bowie, Iggy and Lou Reed are probably the grandfathers of punk.
I didn't dress as a punk in the, the ships captain may have frowned on a pink mohawk, but I certainly enjoyed the music and followed it closely, and as a Brit who was into the music I can say that the Ramones were not a factor whatsoever......Richard Hell was a large factor, but the Ramones??? Naw.
The early meaning of punk was plain and simple, and non-political to the extreme, it was just a case of 'we don't care, we couldn't give a toss about anything or what anyone thinks about us because the nobody cares about us, live for this very moment...so FUCK OFF' It was indeed a social statement, which some may argue is a political statement in itself, and their point would be well taken, but I don't think that was the intentions of the early punks, they were 'vacant'...remember that word?
va·cant ( P )
adj.
Containing nothing; empty.
Without an incumbent or occupant; unfilled: a vacant position.
Not occupied or put to use: a vacant lot.
Law. Not claimed by an heir: a vacant estate.
Lacking intelligence or knowledge: a vacant mind.
Lacking expression; blank: a vacant stare.
Not filled with any activity: vacant hours. See Synonyms at empty.
vacant
adj 1: void of thought or knowledge; "a vacant mind" 2:
When the Clash came on the scene is when punk started to make direct political statements.
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Punk like most shifts in the musical landscape, drew upon and what proceeded them and what was around them. I would say that UK punks were definitely influenced by Glam, but also 60s Mods, 70s Pub Rock, Reggae, Ska, The MC5, Stooges, etc. I think what sets the early punk band apart from current lot, was the bands not wanting to sound like thier counterparts. The Barracuddas wore thier Beach Boys influences, The Clash added in Reggae, etc
These days punk bands want to mimic every other band on the scene. Safety in numbers i guess..
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Glitter changed music. I mean, The Captain & Tenille...musical innovators. Where would rock & roll be..?
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
those jaded upper middle class suburban white kids are now movers and shakers
Did he really say "movers and shakers"?
blahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa
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I might have some of this wrong, but didn't Joe Strummer say that all of the members of the Clash were at the first Ramones show in London and that's when they realized they could be a band? The thing a lot of people said when they saw the Ramones: "If they can do it, so can I." I think the Ramones influenced a lot of U.K. musicians, but not the general public.
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I watched a learned documentary about punk on PBS. The author of the punk movement was given as Jonathan Richman.
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Not Jonathan Richmond?
Originally posted by Hanover Fiste:
I watched a learned documentary about punk on PBS. The author of the punk movement was given as Jonathan Richman.
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Jonathan Richman? I would have never called that one. I don't see how that is possible, but it's an interesting opinion.
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"Richman has been influential in two fields, first affecting American Punk"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Richman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Richman)
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Originally posted by bearman:
Jonathan Richman? I would have never called that one. I don't see how that is possible, but it's an interesting opinion.
modern lovers are definitely influential proto-punk ... probably not more so than iggy or new york dolls though ....
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I think the point Rhett is missing is that while punk may have only directly influenced a few people, most of those people were musicians and artists. As a result, the influence on music that has come since , including mainstream rock, has been enormous.
Of course, if that doesn't matter to you, then no, punk doesn't matter. It's not like it changed the course of world history, but it changed the course of music -- and presumably if you're on this board, that matters to you?
And I will say that contemporary "punk" doesn't matter at all. At this point it's just repackaged nostalgia.
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You could also argue that the Grateful Dead were a huge influence on musicians and artists and consequently on mainstream rock. But I don't presume that it matters to everyone on this board.
Did I miss something? Is this the punk rock/mainstream rock chatboard, or is it the 9:30 chatboard? The last time I checked, the 9:30 Club booked all kinds of music via all kinds of bands, some of which may not have been influenced by punk at all. Right?
Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
I think the point Rhett is missing is that while punk may have only directly influenced a few people, most of those people were musicians and artists. As a result, the influence on music that has come since , including mainstream rock, has been enormous.
Of course, if that doesn't matter to you, then no, punk doesn't matter. It's not like it changed the course of world history, but it changed the course of music -- and presumably if you're on this board, that matters to you?
And I will say that contemporary "punk" doesn't matter at all. At this point it's just repackaged nostalgia.
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Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
Did I miss something?
I'll bet you didn't miss Brokeback Mountain...
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Like you, I will be seeing that film. But probably not until after Syriana and King Kong.
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Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
Did I miss something?
Apparently yes, every morning when you look in the mirror you miss the fact you're a giant douchebag.
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Whatever do you mean?
I am only allowed into films if there are talking animals.
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Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
You could also argue that the Grateful Dead were a huge influence on musicians and artists and consequently on mainstream rock. But I don't presume that it matters to everyone on this board.
Well, not speaking for everyone, but the Dead and their influence definitely matter to me. Not as a fan of the Dead, but as a fan of music. They pioneered live taping, mail order tickets (really, the first fan club), constant touring to make money rather than record royalties, Jerry's influence as a guitarist, lighting as part of the show, etc., etc. Even the first time a hand was stamped to show someone entered the venue after turnign in their ticket happened at a Dead show.
Maybe it's semantics surrounding the word "matters". Any band and/or genre that was pioneering and influential matters to me. I may not listen to it, but it matters.
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All good points.
Bottom line is that to some people punk matters quite a bit. To others, maybe a bit. To even others, not at all.
Blah blah blah. This topic has become boring. Well maybe not the punk topic itself, but the punk matters discussion. Can we all agree on that?
Originally posted by Arlette:
Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
You could also argue that the Grateful Dead were a huge influence on musicians and artists and consequently on mainstream rock. But I don't presume that it matters to everyone on this board.
Well, not speaking for everyone, but the Dead and their influence definitely matter to me. Not as a fan of the Dead, but as a fan of music. They pioneered live taping, mail order tickets (really, the first fan club), constant touring to make money rather than record royalties, Jerry's influence as a guitarist, lighting as part of the show, etc., etc. Even the first time a hand was stamped to show someone entered the venue after turnign in their ticket happened at a Dead show.
Maybe it's semantics surrounding the word "matters". Any band and/or genre that was pioneering and influential matters to me. I may not listen to it, but it matters. [/b]
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Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
All good points.
Bottom line is that to some people punk matters quite a bit. To others, maybe a bit. To even others, not at all.
Duh. That's only what everyone's been saying for the last day and a half. Finally sinking in, is it?
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I can agree that you've become boring. You seem to have an opinion on everything. We could have a thread on Latvian folk music and you would post on it and have something to say, but it would something negative or you would go out of your way to disagree with people just to be antagonizing.
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No need for personal attacks there, big guy.
And I disagree with what you say. Based on the narrow tastes expressed on the top 10 concert lists (talk about boring!), I sincerely doubt the people on this board could have a serious discussion about Latvian folk music. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to loudly applaud such a discussion.
Originally posted by bearman:
I can agree that you've become boring. You seem to have an opinion on everything. We could have a thread on Latvian folk music and you would post on it and have something to say, but it would something negative or you would go out of your way to disagree with people just to be antagonizing.
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It's not a personal attack. It's an observation. I'm not calling names or being insulting. I'm just saying what I see, and it's just an opinion. I don't think that what I say will hurt your feelings anyway, why should you care? I certainly don't care that you think my tastes are boring, but then again, it sounds like you've already made up your mind about all of your tastes and it's not like I would be able to convince you otherwise. So I would never waste my time to try. If you don't like punk music, why spend all this time participating in a discussion about it? I just don't get it.
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When did I ever say that I did not like punk music? I actually do like a number of punk bands. Dead Kennedys, Sex Pistols, Ramones, Social Distortion, Black Flag, the Clash, the Jam (punk to some people), the Pogues (punk to others), Flogging Molly, and a number of other "punk" bands are all a part of my music collection.
My simple premise was that the period of punk that Kosmo initially referred to (1976-1985?) did not "matter" to a large number of Americans. Personally, I don't understand how that observation was worthy of the name calling that it elicited.
And how often do you make the observation that other people are boring? Why single out me? Why not just go through every thread and tell people how boring they are? Surely you could have a field day.
Originally posted by bearman:
It's not a personal attack. It's an observation. I'm not calling names or being insulting. I'm just saying what I see, and it's just an opinion. I don't think that what I say will hurt your feelings anyway, why should you care? I certainly don't care that you think my tastes are boring, but then again, it sounds like you've already made up your mind about all of your tastes and it's not like I would be able to convince you otherwise. So I would never waste my time to try. If you don't like punk music, why spend all this time participating in a discussion about it? I just don't get it.
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Originally posted by Etan de Balzac, Footie Ball Player:
My simple premise was that the period of punk that Kosmo initially referred to (1976-1985?) did not "matter" to a large number of Americans. Personally, I don't understand how that observation was worthy of the name calling that it elicited.
Nobody said in this thread that punk mattered "to a large number of Americans." The thread title mentions that "punk mattered." Since this is a board, and a club, where alternative music, which has been heavily influenced by punk, play important roles, presumably it's simple enough to conclude that punk did matter. It mattered in the evolution of the club itself, which presumably most people on the board care about to some degree or other. You're trying to make an issue out of nothing.
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Rhett, what the hell are you talking about? You call people names and use personal attacks quite a bit. Get down off that high horse you are sitting on, you have not earned that perch.
I don't think personal attacks and name-calling are necessary. But you can't call someone else out for it when you do it all the time.
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Thanks for articulating that Arlette. I didn't have time to post anything in length, but you said it well.
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"My simple premise was that the period of punk that Kosmo initially referred to (1976-1985?) did not "matter" to a large number of Americans."
In a sense, this is correct. (sorry for jumping in late) Back in the late 70's when the fun began the US kids did not have easy access to the music. Around here, aside from some college stations (WGTB) and one truly alternative station at the time (WHFS...103.1 Bethesda), there was no (relatively free) outlet for the music in the DC area. Back in the geezer days of 77-78 I was in high school, and nobody around me heard of the stuff I had fallen into. And those that had knew it as "punk shit" and never took the time to listen to it. I had to purchase music based on word of mouth and to some extent, reviews in CREEM and other magazines that were covering the scene. So yeah, it didn't matter to the masses. But, as Martha says, that's a good thing. Otherwise it would have been diluted much quicker than it was.
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All the time? Puh-leeze. And before you recall the Nickleback coment, I was totally joking when I called you pathetic for singing a Nickleback song...that was a joke!
Originally posted by Arlette:
Rhett, what the hell are you talking about? You call people names and use personal attacks quite a bit. Get down off that high horse you are sitting on, you have not earned that perch.
I don't think personal attacks and name-calling are necessary. But you can't call someone else out for it when you do it all the time.
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Obviously, punk mattered.There is a 3 page discussion going on about it 20 some years later on this one forum alone.I'm quite certain there are many other likeminded individuals elsewhere who would also agree. The percentage of people to which it mattered however,could certainly be debated infinitely.As someone who came of age during that timeframe, it certainly mattered to me and ultimately, to some extent shaped the person I am today. Long Live Punk!!!
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Thanks for posting that. That was all that I was getting at. Interesting post, and I agree with your final comment.
Originally posted by Paul Styrene:
"My simple premise was that the period of punk that Kosmo initially referred to (1976-1985?) did not "matter" to a large number of Americans."
In a sense, this is correct. (sorry for jumping in late) Back in the late 70's when the fun began the US kids did not have easy access to the music. Around here, aside from some college stations (WGTB) and one truly alternative station at the time (WHFS...103.1 Bethesda), there was no (relatively free) outlet for the music in the DC area. Back in the geezer days of 77-78 I was in high school, and nobody around me heard of the stuff I had fallen into. And those that had knew it as "punk shit" and never took the time to listen to it. I had to purchase music based on word of mouth and to some extent, reviews in CREEM and other magazines that were covering the scene. So yeah, it didn't matter to the masses. But, as Martha says, that's a good thing. Otherwise it would have been diluted much quicker than it was.
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Originally posted by Paul Styrene:
" Around here, aside from some college stations (WGTB) and one truly alternative station at the time (WHFS...103.1 Bethesda), there was no (relatively free) outlet for the music in the DC area.
I need to give WAMU 88.5 some props as well. Growing up a few hundred miles from DC myself, HFS at the time, did not have a very strong signal and was hard to get at certain times. 88.5 however, was stronger and they were ahead of their time with what they were playing. So Kudo's WAMU, I was sorry to see you fall to pieces.
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