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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: ggw on September 29, 2003, 03:28:00 pm

Title: The Blues on PBS
Post by: ggw on September 29, 2003, 03:28:00 pm
Anybody watching this?
 
 Tonight's Wim Wenders written and directed episode features the following:
 
 T-Bone Burnett
 Nick Cave and The Bad Seeds
 Eagle-Eye Cherry
 Shemekia Copeland
 The Jon Spencer Blues Explosion
 Alvin Youngblood Hart
 Skip James *
 Garland Jeffreys
 Chris Thomas King
 J.B. Lenoir *
 Los Lobos
 John Mayall *
 Bonnie Raitt
 Lou Reed
 Vernon Reid
 Marc Ribot
 James "Blood" Ulmer
 Lucinda Williams
 Cassandra Wilson
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: Jaguär on September 29, 2003, 03:32:00 pm
Oh, cool. Thanks for the notice. I remember hearing about this a long time ago but didn't know it was on. Just hope it's on MPT!
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on September 29, 2003, 03:51:00 pm
No, but I'll be taping the Mavericks on Leno tonight, and the Jayhawks on Conan.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: Jaguär on September 29, 2003, 03:57:00 pm
Yeap. 8PM   :D  
 
 "The Soul of Man
 Director Wim Wenders explores the dramatic tension between the sacred and the profane in the music of Skip James, Blind Willie Johnson and J.B. Lenoir."
 
 FYI: Skip James is the guy that did the song that the band the 22-20s named their band for.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on September 29, 2003, 03:59:00 pm
FYI: Lou Reed is that guy who slept with transexuals.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: Jaguär on September 29, 2003, 04:02:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
  FYI: Lou Reed is that guy who slept with transexuals.
:roll:  
 
 You're just begging for it today, aren't you?
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: mankie on September 29, 2003, 04:29:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
  No, but I'll be taping the Mavericks on Leno tonight, and the Jayhawks on Conan.
They going on telly!!...fucking sell-outs.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: mankie on September 29, 2003, 04:32:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  Anybody watching this?
 
 
I'm surprised you're promoting such a liberal tv station. I thought Mein Fuhrer Ashcroft had ordered you lot to block it from your televisions.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on September 29, 2003, 04:35:00 pm
If you can't see the difference between appearing on the Today Show and the Tonight Show, I can't help you.
 
    Typical guest on the Today Show are very middle of the Road: Sting, Kenny G, Gloria Estafan, Seal, Steve Winwood, Kenny Loggins, etc.
 
    At least the late night shows take some chances and skew toward newer, more cutting edge bands.
 
    I never said appearing on late night shows was selling out. And perhaps I was wrong, appearing on the Today Show is not seeling out any more than the night shows. But it is an indicator that your music is boring and middle of the road.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: mankie on September 29, 2003, 04:38:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
  If you can't see the difference between appearing on the Today Show and the Tonight Show, I can't help you.
 
    Typical guest on the Today Show are very middle of the Road: Sting, Kenny G, Gloria Estafan, Seal, Steve Winwood, Kenny Loggins, etc.
 
    At least the late night shows take some chances and skew toward newer, more cutting edge bands.
 
    I never said appearing on late night shows was selling out. And perhaps I was wrong, appearing on the Today Show is not seeling out any more than the night shows. But it is an indicator that your music is boring and middle of the road.
Or maybe simply because more people want to see it.
 
 The following night he was on late night with Letterman....did he sell out one day then get all cool the next?
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on September 29, 2003, 04:40:00 pm
Read what I said.
 
 I take back the part about Today Show being a sell out.
 
 Though the night shows do skew toward newer bands, they do have advertisers to please. They are going to have middle of the road mainstream acts booked as well. Especially Leno and Letterman, since they're on at an earlier hour.
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by mankie:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
  If you can't see the difference between appearing on the Today Show and the Tonight Show, I can't help you.
 
    Typical guest on the Today Show are very middle of the Road: Sting, Kenny G, Gloria Estafan, Seal, Steve Winwood, Kenny Loggins, etc.
 
    At least the late night shows take some chances and skew toward newer, more cutting edge bands.
 
    I never said appearing on late night shows was selling out. And perhaps I was wrong, appearing on the Today Show is not seeling out any more than the night shows. But it is an indicator that your music is boring and middle of the road.
Or maybe simply because more people want to see it.
 
 The following night he was on late night with Letterman....did he sell out one day then get all cool the next? [/b]
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: walkman on September 29, 2003, 07:50:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  Anybody watching this?
 
Last night's was really excellent.  Robert Johnson gives me the chills...in a really good way.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: markie on September 29, 2003, 10:34:00 pm
Wow the KKK marching down KKKonstitution avenue was pretty shocking just now.
 
 Great show, shame they bothered with so many of the current new artists...... I guess they get people interested, but they are mostly pretty bad in comparison. I did like Lou Reed though....
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: ggw on September 29, 2003, 11:11:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Bubba:
  I did like Lou Reed though....
Except that Lou totally "happified" that Skip James tune.
 
 I liked how PBS pointed out that James never received royalties from his recordings.  Especially considering this article that appeared in the New York Times last week:
 
 
Quote
Royalties From PBS Dismay Bluesmen
 By NEIL STRAUSS
 
 Published: September 25, 2003
 
 
 n Sunday PBS is scheduled to begin its weeklong documentary series "The Blues," with Martin Scorsese as executive producer. In the episodes, directed by Clint Eastwood, Wim Wenders, Mike Figgis and others, the past, present and future of the blues are honored, explored and explained.
 
 But some record labels and music publishers say there is one old blues tradition being honored by PBS that would be better off left in the past: underpaying the artist.
 
 Randall Wixen, president of Wixen Music Publishing, says PBS offered a bluesman he represents, Robert Wolfman Belfour, $500 for the use of a song on television, on DVD's and in promotions worldwide in perpetuity. That falls far short of the $8,000 to $12,000 that he said was the standard industry fee just for using a song in a DVD.
 
 In an e-mail message sent last month to a producer of the PBS show, Mr. Wixen rejected PBS's music-licensing offer. "If your true purpose is to honor the blues and those who make it," he wrote, "why devalue it so by continuing to treat its creators as if they were worthless?"
The article later points out that the exposure that many of the artists get will compensate for the small payments and that the series wouldn't have been made if they had to dish out $10,000 for every song they used.  But still, it seems a little hypocritical.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: G.Love on September 30, 2003, 08:57:00 am
Lou Reed sucked!
 
 His rendition of the blues was happy & bouncy (you can't play the blues unless you pay your dues).
 His voice was totally off key but what do you expect from a lousy "musician" (and I use that word liberally).  Every musical interlude was filled with an off-key "yeah, yeah"  He totally sucks - what do people see in him?
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: markie on September 30, 2003, 09:28:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by G.Love:
  Lou Reed sucked!
 
 His rendition of the blues was happy & bouncy (you can't play the blues unless you pay your dues).
 His voice was totally off key but what do you expect from a lousy "musician" (and I use that word liberally).  Every musical interlude was filled with an off-key "yeah, yeah"  He totally sucks - what do people see in him?
Should I bother defending Lou Reed or not?
 
 happy and bouncy, wasnt it the song with the happy lyrics though? And as for not paying dues, well if Lou hasnt paid them, then who has? Especailly of the modern artists who did covers, Oh I bet Eagle eyed Cherry knows all about the blues.
 
 Isnt the blues often sung off-key or with off-key interjections. Off-key works pretty well for effect, if you ask me.
 
 Go and but a best of Lou Reed or something then you might see what others see in him. Ever heard of the velvet underground?
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on September 30, 2003, 09:29:00 am
I didn't see the show, but GGW's and GLove's comments on Mr. Reed don't surprise me.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: thirsty moore on September 30, 2003, 10:03:00 am
Sorry Bub, as much as I like Lou Reed, his versions sucked.  I'm glad that they devoted so much time to Skip James.  I've got a video of him, Bukka White, Son House, Muddy Waters and a few others playing in a backroom bar at Newport '64.  The section on J.B. Renoir was great too.  I hadn't heard of him before.  I'll have to check him out.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: markie on September 30, 2003, 10:44:00 am
So were any of the new artists versions any good then?
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: Mobius on September 30, 2003, 10:52:00 am
Under what defintion of blues does Lou Reed qualify?  Anything good he's ever done seems to be the opposite of blues.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: thirsty moore on September 30, 2003, 10:52:00 am
I was particularly impressed with Beck's work and Nick Cave always gets a thumbs up in my book.  They weren't bad for honkies.  I don't know much about Lucinda Williams.  Marc Ribot was fantastic.
 
 As for Shemeika Copeland and Cassandra Wilson, I don't know a thing about either of them.  Ms. Wilson was getting a good bit of airtime though.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: jadetree on September 30, 2003, 10:54:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
  I was particularly impressed with Beck's work and Nick Cave always gets a thumbs up in my book.  They weren't bad for honkies.  I don't know much about Lucinda Williams.  Marc Ribot was fantastic.
 
 As for Shemeika Copeland and Cassandra Wilson, I don't know a thing about either of them.  Ms. Wilson was getting a good bit of airtime though.
whoops, I totally missed the fact Nick Cave was going to be on this, what did he do? full band?
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: thirsty moore on September 30, 2003, 10:57:00 am
He covered one of Renoir's tunes, I believe.  I don't remember which one.  It was him, guitar, bass, organ drums.  No Blixa.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: thirsty moore on September 30, 2003, 10:59:00 am
Hey, did any of you get the feeling that the Swedish woman thought her husband's Swedish sucked?
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: markie on September 30, 2003, 11:05:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
 
 
 As for Shemeika Copeland and Cassandra Wilson, I don't know a thing about either of them.  Ms. Wilson was getting a good bit of airtime though.
Shameika was the one up first with only one song? I really liked her endition.
 
 To be contrary I didnt think that much to any of the others... Well maybe Lucinda Williams.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: thirsty moore on September 30, 2003, 11:09:00 am
I think so.  I know she had only one song, but don't remember the order of artists.
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by Bubba:
 Shameika was the one up first with only one song? I really liked her rendition.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on September 30, 2003, 11:11:00 am
If you're not familiar with Cassandra Wilson, check out her New Moon Daughter release. Great covers of everyone from Neil Young to Hank Williams to a Hoagy Carmichael to (gasp) U2.
 
    She's got one sexy voice and is one sexy 40something woman.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: markie on September 30, 2003, 11:15:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
  I think so.  I know she had only one song, but don't remember the order of artists.
 
 
[/QB][/QUOTE]
 
 she was the, err bigger one, the other one had blonde ish hair......
 
 right?
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on September 30, 2003, 11:17:00 am
46
 
 
   
Quote
Originally posted by Bubba:
   
Quote
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
  I think so.  I know she had only one song, but don't remember the order of artists.
 
 
[/b]
she was the, err bigger one, the other one had blonde ish hair......
 
 right? [/QB][/QUOTE]
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: thirsty moore on September 30, 2003, 11:23:00 am
Cassandra Wilson had blonde dreads.  Shemeika Copeland had reddish brown hair.  Both incredibly attractive with solid voices.
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by Bubba:
 she was the, err bigger one, the other one had blonde ish hair...... right?
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: markie on September 30, 2003, 11:28:00 am
<img src="http://www.mnblues.com/cdjpg/shemekia-wicked.jpg" alt=" - " />
 
 'twas Shameka I liked her voice was outstanding. the other blonde dreaded one was too jazzy for me.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on September 30, 2003, 11:29:00 am
That's funny. I love Cassandra Wilson, and would say S. Copeland is too bluesy for me.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: thirsty moore on September 30, 2003, 11:32:00 am
Not the best album cover ever....
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: beautifuldisaster on September 30, 2003, 11:33:00 am
anyone know what time its on 8 or 9? thanks!!
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on September 30, 2003, 11:35:00 am
Are they covering any of the great country blues artists of the 20-40's like Memphis Minnie and Sister Rosetta Tharpe?
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: ggw on September 30, 2003, 11:45:00 am
In my opinion, none of the new artists held a candle to the old stuff.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on September 30, 2003, 11:48:00 am
Thanks Mank.
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  In my opinion, none of the new artists held a candle to the old stuff.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: ggw on September 30, 2003, 11:58:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
  Thanks Mank.
 
I would reply in-kind with a comparison of you to another board member, but since there is nobody lower on the pecking order, I'll just have to say:
 
 No problem, Rhett.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: thirsty moore on September 30, 2003, 11:58:00 am
It's on at 9.
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by beautifuldisaster:
  anyone know what time its on 8 or 9? thanks!!
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: G.Love on September 30, 2003, 12:00:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Bubba:
 
 Isnt the blues often sung off-key or with off-key interjections. Off-key works pretty well for effect, if you ask me.
 
 
The portion of the show that I saw was based around standard 12-bar blues, which utilizes the I, IV and V chords, from the standard 8-note scale. Improvisation is based on the use of the blues scales that are built around a pentatonic scale.  Unfortunately, Lou Reed did not hit many of the right notes on that scale.
 
 Something to note is that improvisation is a key characteristic of the blues.  It allows the performer to convey a different meaning through their personal choice of notes, tempo and rhythms.  I can't fault Lou R. for trying to improvise (I think he was trying), in liue of just covering the song (which is what Bonnie Rait did), but it just  did not work  for me.
 
 Now Nick Cave's performance was a good mix of core blues and improvisation.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: ggw on September 30, 2003, 12:03:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by beautifuldisaster:
  anyone know what time its on 8 or 9? thanks!!
http://www.pbs.org/theblues/ (http://www.pbs.org/theblues/)
 
 http://www.pbs.org/theblues/broadcast.html (http://www.pbs.org/theblues/broadcast.html)
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: thirsty moore on September 30, 2003, 12:41:00 pm
I'm sure the Onion article on the Ken Burns box set is applicable to "The Blues".
 
 http://www.theonion.com/onion3922/five-disc_jazz_anthology.html (http://www.theonion.com/onion3922/five-disc_jazz_anthology.html)
 
  <img src="http://graphics.theonion.com/pics_3922/five-disc_jazz_anthology.jpg" alt=" - " />
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: edbert on September 30, 2003, 01:05:00 pm
Hey G Love, what's an 8-note scale???   Are you one of  THOSE people who count both "do"s in their do-re-mi?  Count do once, doh!
 
        G.Love said:
             The portion of the show that I saw was based around standard 12-bar blues, which
            utilizes the I, IV and V chords, from the standard 8-note scale. Improvisation is based
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: thirsty moore on September 30, 2003, 01:08:00 pm
So an octave doesn't count as a seperate note?  
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by edbert:
  Hey G Love, what's an 8-note scale???   Are you one of  THOSE people who count both "do"s in their do-re-mi?  Count do once, doh!
 
        G.Love said:
             The portion of the show that I saw was based around standard 12-bar blues, which
            utilizes the I, IV and V chords, from the standard 8-note scale. Improvisation is based
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: edbert on September 30, 2003, 01:11:00 pm
Nay
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: edbert on September 30, 2003, 01:15:00 pm
To clarify- it's a separate note, but it doesn't increase the # of notes in the scale.  Like if you go to the next "re" (a ninth interval), you don't then say it's a 9-note scale you're playing, etc; it's still a 7-note scale
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: G.Love on September 30, 2003, 01:18:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by edbert:
  To clarify- it's a separate note, but it doesn't increase the # of notes in the scale.  Like if you go to the next "re" (a ninth interval), you don't then say it's a 9-note scale you're playing, etc; it's still a 7-note scale
It's an 8 note scale with 7 intervals - you need a beginning and an end, hence the 8th note.
 Can I suggest a little  music theory  (http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory8.htm#majorscale) to enlighten you?
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: G.Love on September 30, 2003, 01:20:00 pm
or does it need to be alittle  simpler  (http://www.rpsoft2000.com/rps_chordtheory.htm) for you? DOH!!!
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: edbert on September 30, 2003, 01:47:00 pm
No, those two pages are wrong, there are 7 notes in a standard major or minor scale and you don't count the octave of the root.  There are a million links I could post with lessons backing up what I say, but here's one with a specific discussion about calling it 7-note vs 8-note.  
 http://users.senet.com.au/~jbe/theory.htm (http://users.senet.com.au/~jbe/theory.htm)
 And the reason our Do-Re-Mi's end on Do is to show students how that last interval between Ti and Do sounds.  I did get a kick out of that second link you posted; I'll bet that web page author is the world's leading expert on 8th chords, har!
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: G.Love on September 30, 2003, 01:59:00 pm
Edbert,
 Thanks for the link to your home page; it was quite interesting.  
 You make the point yourself that the last DO is included so that you can hear what that seventh interval sounds like between TI and DO, hence the need for the 8 note.
 If you are correct then I believe we should change the name for the interval of eight diatonic degrees between two tones of the same name (the higher of which has twice as many vibrations per second as the lower).  The interval formerly known as an OCTAVE is now a HEPTAVE!  :D
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: edbert on September 30, 2003, 02:06:00 pm
You're getting more and more wrong every minute, and I officially give up on you.  One last point though, you mentioned the pentatonic scale before: guess why it's called PENTAtonic?  An E pentatonic scale for ex. is E, G, A, B, D.  Five notes, hence "penta".  If you want to count the octave of the root (E) you'd have to call it a hexatonic scale.  Alert PBS!  They need to make last-minute changes to all of their scripts!
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: thirsty moore on September 30, 2003, 02:07:00 pm
Psychedelic, dude.
 
  <img src="http://users.senet.com.au/~jbe/chromaticscale.gif" alt=" - " />
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: ggw on September 30, 2003, 02:28:00 pm
Hey edbert and G.Love -- haven't you guys been taking notes?
 
 G.Love -- you need to call edbert a "faggot"
 
 edbert -- you need to call G.Love a "whiny porky midget"
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: G.Love on September 30, 2003, 02:53:00 pm
Actually Edbert, your example of a pentatonic scale is wrong for a major pentatonic scale.
 The step interval is whole, whole, whole + 1/2, whole, whole + 1/2.
 
 You indicated an E pentatonic scale is
 E, G, B, A, D although in the music world, it is:
 E, F#, G#, B, C#, E     ;)
 
 
 PS - Edbert, go back and listen to your Good Charlotte, and give up on understanding music (sorry Kosmo, I couldn't resist)
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: edbert on September 30, 2003, 03:59:00 pm
"pen·ta·ton·ic : consisting of five tones; specifically : being or relating to a scale in
 which the tones are arranged like a major scale with the fourth and
 seventh tones omitted"
 That's FIVE tones, not five steps, not "pentastepic".  And as for saying "E Pentatonic", you said yourself in your original post that blues riffing is based on a "pentatonic scale", without specifying "minor pentatonic scale", which is what blues riffing is based on.  Why bust my chops for not saying "minor" when you didn't.  
 And a standard scale is SEVEN tones, for crying out loud.  Give it up.  My office neighbor is a Peabody Conservatory grad and he's infuriated with you
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: G.Love on September 30, 2003, 04:47:00 pm
True dat about the minor pent. being used for the blues
 A  scale (http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/texts/Scale.html) is a series of notes in ascending or descending order that presents the pitches of a key or mode,  beginning and ending on the tonic of that key or mode. So you step up or down.  Therefore, 5 steps and 6 notes in that scale.
 Tell Mr. Peebody grad to cool his jets and get out of the office and follow his musical dreams instead, for crying out loud.
 
 *Edit* the standard scale is 8 notes, with 7 step intervals - so you give it up!    :p  
 Anyway, I can probably out jam you and Peebody any day because my scale goes to 8 where as yours only goes to 7 - and my amp goes to 11!
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: edbert on September 30, 2003, 05:04:00 pm
That definition doesn't state what the number of notes in a scale is.
  Webster's doesn't have an entry for "major scale", but you can derive it easily from the definition of "pentatonic": 5 notes, 2 missing from major scale, 5+2=7.
 Now go ahead and have the last word, I'm gonna be away from the office for a couple of days and definitely won't remember this argument by the time I get back.
 Good Charlotte, eh?  She sounds hot.
Title: Re: The Blues on PBS
Post by: G.Love on October 01, 2003, 03:22:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by edbert:
  Good Charlotte, eh?  She sounds hot.
Actually "she" is twins so you can double your pleasure, eh!