930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: walkman on September 30, 2003, 07:52:00 pm
-
Anybody see him on Leno last night? Purple suit, silver cane and absolutely trashed off his arse. Must have felt like the longest interview of Leno's life. Even Kevin Bacon looked embarrassed on Tarantino's behalf. And come on now...when Kevin Bacon finds you embarrassing, you KNOW you've gone off the deep end.
That being said, anybody else excited for Kill Bill?
-
No. Too bad. Sounds like a barrel of laughs.
Not really. Not my kind of flick.
-
Originally posted by walkman:
Anybody see him on Leno last night? Purple suit, silver cane and absolutely trashed off his arse.
I saw it.Leno asked him if his cane unscrewed to hide alcohol,to which Q replied,yeah Jagermeister.Man,he was smashed!
-
Sounds like a perfect way to get publicity for his comeback......
The trailer for it looked pretty cheesy. Anything with Lucy Liu in it and Samurai swords probably always will.
-
Originally posted by Bubba:
Sounds like a perfect way to get publicity for his comeback......
The trailer for it looked pretty cheesy. Anything with Lucy Liu in it and Samurai swords probably always will.
I'm yet to be disappointed by one of his directed efforts. Pulp Fiction is just brilliant, and both Reservoir Dogs and Jackie Brown are very good. It sort of amazes me, though, that an artistic genius like QT can be such an inarticulate burnout in person.
-
do you remember seeing him on an episode of the golden girls where he played one of about 10 crap elvis impersonators?
-
Originally posted by Bubba:
do you remember seeing him on an episode of the golden girls where he played one of about 10 crap elvis impersonators?
Playboy: You once appeared as an Elvis impersonator on The Golden Girls. Do you consider that a high point or the nadir of your acting career?
Tarantino: Well, it was kind of a high point because it was one of the few times that I actually got hired for a job. I was one of 12 Elvis impersonators, really just a glorified extra. For some reason they had us sing Don Ho's Hawaiian Love Chant. All the other Elvis impersonators wore Vegas-style jumpsuits. But I wore my own clothes, because I was, like, the Sun Records Elvis. I was the hillbilly cat Elvis. I was the real Elvis; everyone else was Elvis after he sold out.
A man with taste.
-
that's pretty funny..............i like that......
but then again how did he talk his way out of the cable guy?
-
Originally posted by walkman:
Originally posted by Bubba:
Sounds like a perfect way to get publicity for his comeback......
The trailer for it looked pretty cheesy. Anything with Lucy Liu in it and Samurai swords probably always will.
I'm yet to be disappointed by one of his directed efforts. Pulp Fiction is just brilliant, and both Reservoir Dogs and Jackie Brown are very good. It sort of amazes me, though, that an artistic genius like QT can be such an inarticulate burnout in person. [/b]
Walkie, you're young yet. You'll find that is quite common among many brilliant artists. How they do it, I have no clue whatsoever.
-
Originally posted by Jaguär:
Walkie, you're young yet. You'll find that is quite common among many brilliant artists. How they do it, I have no clue whatsoever.
just like people you may know that are brilliant book-wise, and are just flat out genius, but have the worst common sense of all time. i don't know how you can be that smart but not be logical enough to understand simple things, but i guess that is how life is. or something.
-
bilge
-
Originally posted by Heywood Jablome:
Jackie Brown was disappointing, and nowhere near as good as his earlier efforts.. Face it, he's lost it. Warren Beatty turned down the Carradine role in Bill Kill, and that should tell you something. But then again, Robert Blake turned down the Pacino role in the first Godfather!
At least QT worked on 4 classic flicks. How many has Kevin Smith worked on?
Disagree with you on Jackie Brown...I think it's wildly underappreciated.
As for Kevin Smith, the answer is 1, but I thoroughly enjoyed the other 4 all the same.
-
Originally posted by paige:
Originally posted by Jaguär:
Walkie, you're young yet. You'll find that is quite common among many brilliant artists. How they do it, I have no clue whatsoever.
just like people you may know that are brilliant book-wise, and are just flat out genius, but have the worst common sense of all time. i don't know how you can be that smart but not be logical enough to understand simple things, but i guess that is how life is. or something. [/b]
See, I think that's strangely common, but also quite different. Book smart but life-stupid is pretty self-explanatory â?? spend all your time studying at the expense of living and you're bound to turn out silly and boring. But a guy like Tarantino is a different story...totally uneducated, yet innately brilliant. Not a logical way to approach an art-form, but awfully effective.
-
Originally posted by Heywood Jablome:
At least QT worked on 4 classic flicks. How many has Kevin Smith worked on?
Kevin Smith can shit on the sidewalk, and I'll worship it as genius. I LOVE that man. I'm not saying all his work is masterpiece material, but I LOVE it. Cuz I LOVE him. Seeing a trend here?
:D
-
Originally posted by walkman:
That being said, anybody else excited for Kill Bill?
Hath thou yet seen it? Did anybody, but me, see it yet?
I will say this:
It was better than Jackie Brown, a return to Tarantino's film-school "geek chic" style.
It was better than Matrix Regurgitated. It was better than 28 Days Litter.
As per usual, the soundtrack was rather tuneful. QT, always eschewing traditional background music, this time fancies Japanese rockabilly and Quincy Jones' Ironside theme. Good choices! Gonna hafta buy it.
Bonus Points: Pussy Wagon.
-
<img src="http://www.killbill2.net/images/gal/Volume%201/0010.jpg" alt=" - " />
"Sorry, the time in which you may edit your message has elapsed."
-
Originally posted by Dupek Chopra:
Originally posted by walkman:
That being said, anybody else excited for Kill Bill?
Hath thou yet seen it? Did anybody, but me, see it yet?
I will say this:
It was better than Jackie Brown, a return to Tarantino's film-school "geek chic" style.
It was better than Matrix Regurgitated. It was better than 28 Days Litter.
As per usual, the soundtrack was rather tuneful. QT, always eschewing traditional background music, this time fancies Japanese rockabilly and Quincy Jones' Ironside theme. Good choices! Gonna hafta buy it.
Bonus Points: Pussy Wagon. [/b]
Agree with you 100% Dupek. Hmmm...maybe we should hang out some time...?
I though the Matrix rewhatever and 28 Days Later were both disappointing. Kill Bill may be one of the very few flicks I've seen this year that lived up to high expectations.
And yes, the soundtrack is excellent.
-
big thumbs up on the kill bill soundtrack :D
but according to some whiney pants on amazon many of the good RZA musical bits are the Japanese version of the soundtrack. hmmm
i was very worried about liking the film when nerdy ticket taker blurted out "film of the year" as he torn our tickets.
personally, it was a very average film, given that fact that tarantino hasn't ever had an orginial idea. there were a couple nice touches i.e. the sunglasses on the dashboard. it seems like the type of movie nerdy geeky film types would get a hardon over because they recognize the homages in the movie.
kill bill part two and the third matrix will be dvd rentals in the kozzie household... what will the two best actors in the world, reeves and fishburne, do once the matrix has left town.
-
I hated Kill Bill.
If Quentin (What self respecting person is called that, anyway?) was a humanist, If he let you care for any of the characters just one little bit, then maybe it would be a different story. Actually maybe not. there was no plot and scant reasoning why anybody should do anything. Worst of all was half the scenes looked familiar, has anyone seen enter the dragon and crouching tiger hidden dragon and charlies angels. Well you have seen most of kill bill then.
It started off so promisingly too, the rape seen was the best bit. Fuckers got what they deserved.
Maybe the next part will make sense of it all, still then this should not have been a stand alone movie.
The best thing was the soundtrack.
-
Why then walkie, you will surely love this (http://www.killbill2.net/) site. Be sure to go to the music section & download the tracks that don't appear on the OST.
-
I really liked Kill Bill.
It has it flaws though-
At first I was confused about the lack of background given and reasoning, but I think you pretty quickly get all the info you need. Plus the screwed up timeline is standard Tarantino.
The major complaint I'd have is the almost comic book like use of blood throughout. Maybe that's what really happens when someones arm is cut off but I thought it only served to make the scenes appear silly. I read somewhere that it was intentional to lighten the mood. I guess it worked because it takes very nasty situations and made them almost funny. I would have left out the silly stuff & dramatically increased the power of the film a la Resevoir Dogs. There's no mood lightener in the ear removal scene.
I did think it was one of the most beautifully filmed movies I have ever seen:
The snowy garden fight scene - the blue silhouetted fight scene - excellent use of color throughout.
-
Originally posted by grotty:
I really liked Kill Bill.
Plus the screwed up timeline is standard Tarantino.
The snowy garden fight scene - the blue silhouetted fight scene - excellent use of color throughout.
the timeline is somewhat heavy handed having to introduce it with chapter #s scribbled out. A movie should be able to speak for itself not need written description. Oh it make me mad <img src="http://www.quiethorizons.com/products/full/24464.jpg" alt=" - " />
And the fight scene backdrops were just too street fighter 2.
do you live in a cultural vacuum?
-
Originally posted by grotty:
The major complaint I'd have is the almost comic book like use of blood throughout. Maybe that's what really happens when someones arm is cut off but I thought it only served to make the scenes appear silly.
Well, it wasn't meant to be a zombie flick. As Vietnam vet & gore pioneer Tom Savini (http://www.savini.com/) says on the bonus disc to DAY OF THE DEAD, blood doesn't gush like a garden hose on fan-setting. It spurts in jets.
-
"do you live in a cultural vacuum? "
Why? because I haven't seen Charlie's Angels?
***********************
Tom Savini - a good old Pittsburgh boy.
A couple of years ago on Halloween night we saw his stage production of Dracula. You can just imagine what it was like.
-
i know we are suppose to suspend disbelief at the movies but... she spends x number of hours in the guys truck she just killed recovering use of her limbs. and no one finds her? even a rent-a-cop from the hospital would have known to go the victims truck first, seeing as his keys were missing.
-
42 (http://www.coldwellbanker.ca/scripts/cb/profile.asp?id=20370)
-
So then, you don't suspend disbelief when you read comix? How do you know it was hours? It could've been seconds.
-
Originally posted by Dupek Chopra:
42 (http://www.coldwellbanker.ca/scripts/cb/profile.asp?id=20370)
Is she paying you a finder's fee or something?
Would be even funnier if she were located in San Francisco.
-
Actually it was captioned.... 13(or 11) hours later.....
Captioning and written descriptions in movies drive me up the wall.
More disbelief is that she can move her upper body but not lower.... After a year in a coma you atrophy so badly it takes months to walk again, not hours.
-
Originally posted by Jaguär:
Is she paying you a finder's fee or something?
Would be even funnier if she were located in San Francisco.
That's not a woman woman, it's a man (http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/story/0,7493,1074310,00.html), baby.
-
Originally posted by markie:
Actually it was captioned.... 13(or 11) hours later.....
Captioning and written descriptions in movies drive me up the wall.
More disbelief is that she can move her upper body but not lower.... After a year in a coma you atrophy so badly it takes months to walk again, not hours.
Maybe Q solves it in a flashback in Pt.2?
-
Originally posted by Dupek Chopra:
Originally posted by Jaguär:
Is she paying you a finder's fee or something?
Would be even funnier if she were located in San Francisco.
That's not a woman woman, it's a man (http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/story/0,7493,1074310,00.html), baby. [/b]
Damn! Nothing like being out-womaned by a man!
-
Originally posted by Dupek Chopra:
Maybe Q solves it in a flashback in Pt.2?
Maybe it was just a really silly movie?
-
Originally posted by markie:
Maybe it was just a really silly movie?
But it was a good kind of silly.
-
I take my entertainment seriously. If I had not got such high hopes for it, I would have probably rated it higher.
But all the same: <img src="http://www.just4yucks.com/images/general/21047.jpg" alt=" - " />
-
Originally posted by walkman:
I'm yet to be disappointed by one of his directed efforts. Pulp Fiction is just brilliant, and both Reservoir Dogs and Jackie Brown are very good. It sort of amazes me, though, that an artistic genius like QT can be such an inarticulate burnout in person. [/b]
Ever heard of the term, "tortured genius"?
I think if you look through history you'll see the greatest creative minds usually belonged to anti-social losers of society. Not saying QT is one of the greatest, but just making a point.
I do like his movies though, and I think every movie he's made has been brilliant.
-
Originally posted by mankie:
I do like his movies though, and I think every movie he's made has been brilliant.
he is a prat and so are you for thinking that.
Goodnight.
-
Originally posted by mankie:
Originally posted by walkman:
I'm yet to be disappointed by one of his directed efforts. Pulp Fiction is just brilliant, and both Reservoir Dogs and Jackie Brown are very good. It sort of amazes me, though, that an artistic genius like QT can be such an inarticulate burnout in person. [/b]
Ever heard of the term, "tortured genius"?
I think if you look through history you'll see the greatest creative minds usually belonged to anti-social losers of society. Not saying QT is one of the greatest, but just making a point.
I do like his movies though, and I think every movie he's made has been brilliant. [/b]
I'm with you there. It's just that most tortured geniuses and anti-social losers seem to be articulate about their chosen medium, whatever it may be. The thing that gets me about QT is not that he's troubled, but rather that he often seems unable (or unwilling) to discuss his art on an intellectual level...it's as if he just instinctively creates his art, without thought. That's what I find so unusual about him.
-
Originally posted by markie:
Originally posted by mankie:
I do like his movies though, and I think every movie he's made has been brilliant.
he is a prat and so are you for thinking that.
Goodnight. [/b]
So I'm a prat because I have different tastes in movies to you, just like your philosophy on music then.
Maybe I'm not as movie savvy as you, or movie-hip..or was that Rhett? Markie/Rhett one in the same really.
I do wonder though why QT has to talk like a black bloke from the ghetto.....yes, I know were he was raised, but he's still white.
-
I'd like to give a shizzle-out to my homeboy...
-
Mankie, keep your hair on.....
I dont think Quentin is tortured at all. I think he is a middle class tool.
I gave plenty of reasons for not liking Kill bill, you did not justify your enjoyment of it at all. I found that frustrating.
Please, if you can bothered, think about what you enjoyed so much about the movie. If its just chicks and fighting, I will just continue to think you are a prat.
Does that make sense?
-
I like the story lines, they are very unique and "out of the box" to use a term I hate. The humour within the story cracks me up too. It's almost as if he's taking the piss out of movie making while making movies...if you know what I mean. You can tell a QT movie apart from any other.
You think I'm a prat regardless though, when did you ever need to give a reason?
-
Originally posted by mankie:
You think I'm a prat regardless though, when did you ever need to give a reason?
No not really, you're Ok normally.
OK good reasons tp like it. But someow this felt closer to a pastiche to me. Closer to ot shots 2 than to pulp fiction. But that is being overly critical. I guess the deft touches were there.
I think I am just frustrated by the fact that he had five years to make this movie and he his no grandiose statement to make. The big egg head has nothing to say. There is no point, moralistic or otherwise. Its just chicks fighting to street fighter 2 backgrounds.
What do you think about that?
-
Originally posted by markie:
Originally posted by mankie:
You think I'm a prat regardless though, when did you ever need to give a reason?
No not really, you're Ok normally.
OK good reasons tp like it. But someow this felt closer to a pastiche to me. Closer to ot shots 2 than to pulp fiction. But that is being overly critical. I guess the deft touches were there.
I think I am just frustrated by the fact that he had five years to make this movie and he his no grandiose statement to make. The big egg head has nothing to say. There is no point, moralistic or otherwise. Its just chicks fighting to street fighter 2 backgrounds.
What do you think about that? [/b]
I haven't seen Kill Bill yet. We're not big movie goers so wait for stuff to come out on dvd/video. If it has Lucy Lui in it that's already a strike against it in my book though.
-
I personally have never been a big fan of grand statements...in any entertainment. If I like something, I like it, regardless of the deep hidden meaning or message. That doesn't necessarily mean I hate songs or movies with messages; sometimes it can enhance the experience. However, I don't think they're needed to be enjoyable.
As for Kill Bill, I personally loved it. I thought the cinematography was spectacular, and really enhanced the movie. My personal favorite part is how the feel and style of the movie changed based on what was happening (ie. becoming a kung-fu movie when she took on Lucy Lui - who, I might add, I thought was fantasic). I'm hoping part 2 does the same as she takes on the rest. And I really liked the story and how he presented it. Plus, I am a sucker for old kung fu movies :D
One thing I love about Tarantino's movies is how fucking cool they are. Everything about them (look, dialogue, clothes, music, etc.) is just so hip.
Originally posted by markie:
Originally posted by mankie:
You think I'm a prat regardless though, when did you ever need to give a reason?
No not really, you're Ok normally.
OK good reasons tp like it. But someow this felt closer to a pastiche to me. Closer to ot shots 2 than to pulp fiction. But that is being overly critical. I guess the deft touches were there.
I think I am just frustrated by the fact that he had five years to make this movie and he his no grandiose statement to make. The big egg head has nothing to say. There is no point, moralistic or otherwise. Its just chicks fighting to street fighter 2 backgrounds.
What do you think about that? [/b]
-
Originally posted by markie:
I think I am just frustrated by the fact that he had five years to make this movie and he his no grandiose statement to make. The big egg head has nothing to say. There is no point, moralistic or otherwise. What do you think about that?
If you want to send a message, use Western Union.
-
NKOTBie,
What you are saying then is that it had style over substance and you applaud him for that?
Look at really great movies and the have a point, yes or no?
think seven samurai and full metal jacket.......hell even when harry met Sally.
Kill bill, was than just disposable fluff.
Sorry mankie, I thought you had seen the movie.
-
Originally posted by markie:
Look at really great movies and the have a point, yes or no?
think full metal jacket???
Full Metal Jacket is far from being a "great" movie.
-
Really Dupek?
I beg to differ.
But I will play along, name a feature of it that you find less than great?
-
No, I'm not saying that the movie was all style and no substance. Granted, one of my personal favorite parts of Taratino's work is the style that it's done in, but that's not the only reason.
I thought the storyline in Kill Bill was great. The way he tells a story piece by piece really makes it enjoyable (to me at least), and keeps things relatively up in the air. You know the Bride is going to take everyone down, but if the movie was completely linear, everything that happens would be telegraphed. At least this way, the audience is kept on it's toes to some degree as the movie unfolds.
Personally, I think the revenge storyline, while not original, really makes a great flick. Also, I think you get a good bit of character development as you go through the movie. With each chapter, you learn about her former partners, and more about the main character.
And while I was saying the movie doesn't have a meaning, I didn't mean it didn't have a point. The point is pretty simple; she needs to kill Bill. What I meant was that a movie doesn't have to have a moral to be effective. Sometimes, it just tells a story.
Originally posted by markie:
NKOTBie,
What you are saying then is that it had style over substance and you applaud him for that?
Look at really great movies and the have a point, yes or no?
think seven samurai and full metal jacket.......hell even when harry met Sally.
Kill bill, was than just disposable fluff.
Sorry mankie, I thought you had seen the movie.
-
Originally posted by markie:
Really Dupek?
I beg to differ.
But I will play along, name a feature of it that you find less than great?
Didn't we already hash this out months ago? That it was two movies, and not one. That the first half owned, but the second half didn't. Shot on location, in Somerset. Need more? Don't get me wrong. It was very watchable, just not of STAGECOACH, METROPOLIS, BICYCLE THIEF caliber.
<img src="http://www.howstrange.com/gallery/emperor.jpg" alt=" - " />
Don't you just love how I can pull these Film Appreciation-101 titles out of my ass?
-
Originally posted by nkotbie:
I thought the storyline in Kill Bill was great. The way he tells a story piece by piece really makes it enjoyable
And while I was saying the movie doesn't have a meaning, I didn't mean it didn't have a point. The point is pretty simple; she needs to kill Bill. What I meant was that a movie doesn't have to have a moral to be effective. Sometimes, it just tells a story.
[/b]
to address those two points...
i) The darting around in the timeline is cool. But I thought it was somewhat unnececessary in this movie. It just seemed to me to be a device to cover up a shoddy plot. I thought haing chapter mumber and them scribbled out was very ham fisted.
ii) But that gets to the heart of a what a story is. A good story, book or film should make you think something about the world or life or yourself. Dont you think? Or else they are not good? Kill Bill just made me think I like to watch girls kill girls, Oh wait, now I feel like the joke is on me.
-
Originally posted by Dupek Chopra:
[QB] Originally posted by markie:
[qb] Didn't we already hash this out months ago? That it was two movies, and not one. That the first half owned, but the second half didn't. Shot on location, in Somerset. Need more? Don't get me wrong. It was very watchable, just not of STAGECOACH, METROPOLIS, BICYCLE THIEF caliber.
Ok Dupek, I think you are right. We had this out before. But I dont think you can tell it was shot in the UK the NAM scenes are great. Perhaps it should have been two movies? Familiarity with it makes that hard to judge for me. They just seem to belong together now.
I dont think I have seen stagecouch.....I will go and look it up.
-
I think it'd be pointless to try and argue about whether a movie should enlighten you or not, since it's obviously a personal preference. However, to give my side, I don't really think they need to. As you know, I'm a pretty big Star Wars geek. Every time I watch it, I don't think about the world around me and how the I fit, and this and that. I think, wow, this movie gets me pumped everytime.
To me, a movie is just a device to tell a story. Now, that device can be done in an artsy way (personally, I think Kill Bill and all of Tarantino's movies are shot in a very artistic way, but aren't necessarily art films), and can convey a deeper meaning, enhancing your understanding of the world and your place in it. But most importantly, a movie should be enjoyed.
Yes, Schindler's List was a great film and made me more aware of the world at large, but I didn't enjoy the viewing experience. Maybe it's a simple-minded view, but it's what works for me. And it's not just for escapism, on my part. I loved the Virgin Suicides, which isn't a feel good movie at all. It was beautifully shot, had a good story, AND made you think. It's all relative...
However, it seems this debate boils down to an even scarier topic: whether a specific movie is art or entertainment.
to address those two points...
i) The darting around in the timeline is cool. But I thought it was somewhat unnececessary in this movie. It just seemed to me to be a device to cover up a shoddy plot. I thought haing chapter mumber and them scribbled out was very ham fisted.
ii) But that gets to the heart of a what a story is. A good story, book or film should make you think something about the world or life or yourself. Dont you think? Or else they are not good? Kill Bill just made me think I like to watch girls kill girls, Oh wait, now I feel like the joke is on me. [/QB]
-
Originally posted by markie:
the NAM scenes are great. Perhaps it should have been two movies? Familiarity with it makes that hard to judge for me. They just seem to belong together now.
The holy trinity of Nam flicks, IMO, is:
HAMBURGER HILL
FLIGHT OF THE INTRUDER
OFF LIMITS
-
I think t is so boiled down now that everything is art, be it a urinal or a white canvas....
I think Star Wars has some pretty interesting features, its not just an all out action movie, right?
-
Originally posted by Dupek Chopra:
The holy trinity of Nam flicks, IMO, is:
HAMBURGER HILL
FLIGHT OF THE INTRUDER
OFF LIMITS
Born on the Fourth of July
Platoon
heaven and Earth
Just kidding..... perhaps.
Apocalypse now for me please.
-
<img src="http://www.howstrange.com/gallery/kill_bill_oddie.jpg" alt=" - " />
Is there a Falklands war film?
-
You're right about Star Wars. I love the movie for more reasons than just the action, so that was a bad example. I think you get my point though...
As for the art vs. function argument, that's an insane argument to even start. What's the cut off? I doubt anyone would say that Independence Day is art, while I doubt anyone would argue that (insert the name of an independant artsy movie that everyone would love...my 2+ hour commute this morning has left my brain quite unable to think of one) isn't art. But both movies are made in pretty much the same way and with the same equipment. In the end, it really becomes a matter of personal choice and elitist judgement (and I'm not saying that in a bad way).
Originally posted by markie:
I think t is so boiled down now that everything is art, be it a urinal or a white canvas....
I think Star Wars has some pretty interesting features, its not just an all out action movie, right?
-
falklands war.....
There were some OK BBC mini-series. I dont remember any real films though.
NKOTBie,
Personally I think everything is art, just that some of it is good, re worthwhile and some is poor, re worthless.
So far Kill Bill has great style, some good pastiches and some entertaining value...... Now that sounds like independance day.
-
I just think by making things so black & white you have the potential of missing out on a lot of things that aren't "art." I wouldn't call AWK art, but that doesn't mean I cast his music aside. In a similar vein, I would say the movie Happiness IS art (based on the way it's shot, etc.), but that doesn't mean I didn't absolutely hate the movie.
P.S. Sorry to keep this going on needlessly; I'm just terribly bored at work, and terribly lonely :(
Originally posted by markie:
NKOTBie,
Personally I think everything is art, just that some of it is good, re worthwhile and some is poor, re worthless.
So far Kill Bill has great style, some good pastiches and some entertaining value...... Now that sounds like independance day.
-
Originally posted by nkotbie:
Happiness IS art (based on the way it's shot, etc.), but that doesn't mean I didn't absolutely hate the movie.
:eek:
is there blood in your bm?
-
lonely, and hungry? I have a tuna sandwich......
Everything is art, there are degrees of quality. I am not sure where I would score AWK.
I cannot believe you dont like happiness though. It is the movie that American beauty should have been. Infact AB is pretty weak in comparison. Happiness is certainly a movie with a message, you cannot deny that?
However it is alzo a criticism of Todd Solondz that he is also not a humanist (Just like QT). Personally I find some of happinesses characters rather endearing.
-
Originally posted by markie:
Personally I find some of happinesses characters rather endearing.
I think the Jon Lovitz character is one of the more human characters I have ever seen in a movie, and I think that a lot of the characters in the movie are.
actually I think that is where Storytelling failed, the characters just all seemed like a joke, unlike in Happiness
-
I like the Russian,
"are you a lesbian? That is Ok, Vlad like lesbian."
Or when Joy asks his profession, "Thief"
Joy gets what she deserves, which is misery, a result of her being so shallow. What bliss.
-
Ok, I can agree with your statement there about art. I just don't think that something not being of a good artistic quality automatically makes it not worthwhile, which is what I thought you were arguing.
As for Happiness, I think that it fell into the trap that many independant movies do, in that it was shocking for the sake of being shocking. To me there is a very thin line between shock value working in a movie and not, and Happiness, for me, crossed that line. There's no denying a message there, but I think it's totally lost in the over-the-top presentation. Granted, I've only seen it once, so I should probably give it another chance. Maybe I will just for you...
And American Beauty, as trite as this may seem, is one of my favorite movies. I think it's overall perfect, and definitely stays right on the line of being shocking but not straying too far. Also, I found it beautfully shot and paced, which I can't say for Happiness.
As for not being a humanist, I don't think that necessarily matters to me in a movie (oops, almost called it a film! Don't want to be a hipster...). It appears that we'll never go on a double date to the movies...
Originally posted by markie:
lonely, and hungry? I have a tuna sandwich......
Everything is art, there are degrees of quality. I am not sure where I would score AWK.
I cannot believe you dont like happiness though. It is the movie that American beauty should have been. Infact AB is pretty weak in comparison. Happiness is certainly a movie with a message, you cannot deny that?
However it is alzo a criticism of Todd Solondz that he is also not a humanist (Just like QT). Personally I find some of happinesses characters rather endearing.
-
but when someone says Kill Bill is a great movie, do they mean it is a great piece of art or just a good 90 minutes of entertainment? I certainly dont think it is great art. I think it will be realatively forgotten in a short time, like Jackie Brown. Pulp fiction and Resvoir Dogs seem to endure much better.
As for american beauty, can you not see the parallels between it and happiness? It is the same subject matter. American beauty is so schmultzy, its made for people who watched the wonder years too much.
Happiness is much grittier. Some of its observations are so great when you think about them more. Take the shrink that is so messed up. He cannot help himself, what use is he to anyone else? A beautifully damning view of pschoanalysis.
-
Originally posted by nkotbie:
As for Happiness, I think that it fell into the trap that many independant movies do, in that it was shocking for the sake of being shocking.
Couldn't one say the same for Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction?
-
The thing that I find highly amuzing about this thread is that you guys are trying to have an intellectual discussion over a lot of crap without coming out and admitting that you sometimes just enjoy a little of the lowest common denominator of blood, gore, and sex. :roll:
Give it up! It just doesn't work. It's like going into an elevator and hearing the fake Boston Pops version of Sex And Drugs And Rock And Roll.
-
I like gore and sex as much as the next person.
But without a good context it doesnt make a great movie..... Just like the matrix 2. The effects were stupendous. The lorry concertinaing was beautiful. It was still one shit ass dull movie.
familiar with the term, circus and loaves?
-
To me, Kill Bill is a great movie because a) it is shot wonderfully, b) the story is compelling, c) the action is fantastic, d) it entertained me to no end, and e) as a final product, it all comes together cohesively (music, visuals, story, etc). Does that mean it's art? I think, looking at it artistically, yes, certain elements (score/soundtrack, cinematography) are great examples of the art of film, but overall, it's a just a great entertaining movie.
Originally posted by markie:
but when someone says Kill Bill is a great movie, do they mean it is a great piece of art or just a good 90 minutes of entertainment?
Yes, there are very obvious parallels between the two movies. For me, though, American Beauty strikes a much more personal note. I guess in this regard, I am judging the movies for a personal effect and message. Besides, I honestly think American Beauty was just a much more quality film in the way that it was shot. Nothing about Happiness impressed me all that much.
Originally posted by markie:
As for american beauty, can you not see the parallels between it and happiness? It is the same subject matter. American beauty is so schmultzy, its made for people who watched the wonder years too much.
As for you, I do think someone could say the same about both movies. I'm not trying to give a definitive "this is good while this is bad" argument. Markie just asked for reason why people liked Kill Bill, which I'm trying to give him. And I was also illustrating reasons why I didn't like Happiness. I can easily see someone being disgusted by the violence, profanity and drug use in all of the movies we're discussing.
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by nkotbie:
As for Happiness, I think that it fell into the trap that many independant movies do, in that it was shocking for the sake of being shocking.
Couldn't one say the same for Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction? [/b]
And I think, if you look at any of my comments on this, I never try to hide the fact that I'm talking about being ENTERTAINED by a movie, and not needing it to be ART.
Originally posted by Jaguär:
The thing that I find highly amuzing about this thread is that you guys are trying to have an intellectual discussion over a lot of crap without coming out and admitting that you sometimes just enjoy a little of the lowest common denominator of blood, gore, and sex. :roll:
Give it up! It just doesn't work. It's like going into an elevator and hearing the fake Boston Pops version of Sex And Drugs And Rock And Roll.
-
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
It's still funny.
:D :D :D :p
-
kill bill looked to stupid and boring but everyone said it was good. if there was a hotter chick i would see it.
GO SEE THE MATRIX!!!! DOESNT SUCK LIKE RELOADED!!!!!! ITS AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Has anyone, but me, ever seen HENRY FOOL?
-
probably...... It sounds good though, was it?
http://www.sonypictures.com/classics/henryfool/synopsis-f.html (http://www.sonypictures.com/classics/henryfool/synopsis-f.html)
-
Originally posted by Dupek Chopra:
Has anyone, but me, ever seen HENRY FOOL?
I saw it when it first came out on video, can't say I remember it very well though
-
eh..?
Worth watching, if you like long, talky films with occasional bursts of brilliance.