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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: Roger Music on November 24, 2007, 10:43:00 pm
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/24/AR2007112400614_pf.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/24/AR2007112400614_pf.html)
Critics Question Fillmore Plans
9:30 Club's Offer For Silver Spring Tantalizes Some
By Ann E. Marimow
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, November 25, 2007; C01
When negotiations to bring a Birchmere Music Hall to Silver Spring collapsed after five years in the works, Montgomery County leaders were anxious to find a new partner to enliven a boarded-up downtown block. County Executive Isiah Leggett had spent political capital fighting to fund the Birchmere project, so his advisers were relieved to learn that Live Nation, a national brand, was interested in taking its place.
"I thought, wow, a national company with a great name and access to a lot of acts," said Timothy Firestine, Leggett's chief administrative officer. "I thought it was an exciting opportunity."
But even as Leggett (D) intends to finalize an agreement with Live Nation by the end of next month, a group of residents and County Council members are questioning whether his plan to spend $8 million in state and local funds to build one of the company's Fillmore clubs is the best deal for taxpayers.
They are urging Leggett to consider a pitch from local promoter Seth Hurwitz, who says he can provide a "superior music venue at a dramatically reduced cost." Hurwitz, whose company owns the District's 9:30 Club and operates Merriweather Post Pavilion, said he is willing to pay twice as much in monthly rent as Live Nation, contribute $2 million to defray taxpayer cost, split the naming rights with the county and offer the venue rent-free to some community nonprofit groups.
"The idea that you need to subsidize anyone in this place is nuts. Why they'd feel they need to give the place away is beyond me," said Hurwitz, of Bethesda-based IMP Productions. "This is such a ridiculous deal."
Much is at stake for the county executive in the most high-profile, costly public project he has announced since taking office a year ago. Leggett and the owners of the property at the old JCPenney site, Lee Development Group, say the offer from Hurwitz arrived too late. To entertain Hurwitz's proposal would undermine the county's credibility in future business deals, they say.
"You may be able to produce an immediate beneficial cost, but down the line, the loss of the credibility, your reputation, your honest dealings with people," Leggett said in an interview last week. "Not negotiating in good faith costs the county big time going down the line."
He called the counteroffer "just a distraction."
But some Silver Spring residents and council members, who control the county's checkbook, are not convinced.
"I don't consider the case closed in support of any one operator," said council member George L. Leventhal (D-At Large).
A neighborhood advisory committee appointed by the county executive is also pressing Leggett to look at Hurwitz's homegrown offer before signing a deal with the Los Angeles company.
"If a local business owner is able to do what a national brand is able to do, and in a less expensive way, I don't know how or why we're not entertaining such offers," said Evan Glass, president of the South Silver Spring Neighborhood Association.
Local sentiment is not unanimous. An organization that represents the presidents of 11 civic associations in the neighborhoods surrounding downtown Silver Spring reached consensus last week that the county should continue its course with Live Nation.
Barbara Ditzler, president of the Woodside Park Civic Association, compared the county's relationship with that of a betrothed couple: "We shouldn't have Silver Spring dating other people now that he is engaged."
Under the tentative agreement signed in September, the county and state would each invest $4 million to build a 32,000-square-foot venue at Colesville Road and Georgia Avenue. The developers would donate the land, worth about $3.5 million, to the county as part of their plans for a $110 million multiuse real estate project.
Bruce Lee, president of Lee Development Group, said he is committed to Leggett and his deal with Live Nation. "We're moving fast and furious," he said.
Ted Mankin, a Live Nation executive, deferred to the county on questions about the process. "We are really focused on completing our deal and moving forward," he said.
Live Nation intends to create a venue for up to 2,000 people, for which it would pay monthly rent of at least $7,500 -- the same amount the Birchmere would have paid for a 750-person venue. The asking price for retail space in downtown Silver Spring generally ranges from $35 to $50 per square foot. Live Nation would pay just under $3, a reduced rate that the county says is a necessary incentive. The letter of intent also gives the company the option to buy the property after 16 years for $8 million.
The numbers don't add up to council member Marc Elrich (D-At Large). "Why would we sell it for less than the current value, let alone the future value?" he asked.
At a time when the county is facing a budget shortfall of about $400 million and legislators are poised to make $550 million in spending cuts statewide, Leggett should have used a formal bidding process, Elrich and some community members say.
Hurwitz is trying to make that case. He has hired former Planning Board chairman Gus Bauman to provide political advice, enlisted a local law firm, consulted with an Annapolis lobbyist and is meeting one-on-one with council members and residents.
When former county executive Douglas M. Duncan (D) was negotiating with the Alexandria-based Birchmere, Hurwitz said he took a pass because of that venue's special cabaret-style setting. But when he learned that the county had changed gears to create a larger nightclub, "it was time to speak up," Hurwitz said. His initial letter arrived six days after the county had signed with Live Nation.
Firestine dismissed Hurwitz's proposal as a "cut and paste job" that cherry-picked details from an existing offer. "If you did business this way, anyone could come in at the eleventh hour, " he said.
It seems unlikely, though, that the county would have been inclined to get serious with Hurwitz. When the Birchmere talks broke down, Leggett's spokesman Patrick Lacefield said, "the feedback we were getting from people was, 'whatever you do, we don't want the 9:30 Club.' "
Hurwitz's spokeswoman, Audrey Fix Schaefer, said the company wants to build a new brand for Silver Spring, not re-create the 9:30 Club.
Hurwitz has tangled with Live Nation before, arguing last year that its plan to build one of its House of Blues venues near the Walter E. Washington Convention Center would cut business at the 9:30 Club in half. Privately, some county officials question the seriousness of Hurwitz's Silver Spring offer, believing that it is nothing but a bid to keep out the competition.
Hurwitz says he just wants a chance to compete with what he says is a better deal for taxpayers in the county where he lives.
Montgomery's contracting law makes four exceptions for noncompetitive bidding, none of which Hurwitz's attorney says apply to the Live Nation deal. Raymond Sherbill, who represents IMP, said the county code, much like state and federal law, makes sole-source deals "the exception rather than the rule."
Leggett administration officials say the county is on solid legal footing. The county's regulations apply to the acquisition of goods and services, not to land transactions or building leases. And the law provides an exemption for "obtaining entertainment services, including but not limited to contracts for musical performers."
Just as the county has courted biotech companies with tax incentives, the county can seek out a single operator for a specific location when it involves an economic development initiative, Firestine said.
In a letter to residents who have urged Leggett to think again about Live Nation, the county executive wrote that he views the company as a "unique partner for a unique project." That definition meets one of the sole source exceptions in county law, and is a case Duncan made in approaching the Birchmere.
Hurwitz doesn't buy it. An analysis by his company shows an 84 percent overlap in performers who played at both the 9:30 Club and either a Fillmore or a House of Blues in 2006.
No matter how the law is interpreted, residents who want Leggett to open up the process say the spirit of his approach to Live Nation seems at odds with his reputation for deliberation and promise as a candidate to create a more transparent form of government.
"I don't care at the end of the day which one is there," said Philip Olivetti, a member of the Silver Spring Citizens Advisory Board. "It's what it does to people's trust in county government. When public money is involved, and at least on paper there is a potential savings for taxpayers, how you can simply dismiss it?"
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Nothing happens unless we pressure our elected officials, so send them an e-mail telling them what you think!!!
Isiah Leggett (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/govtmpl.asp?url=/content/exec/welcome.asp) - e-mail: ocemail@montgomerycountymd.gov
Phil Andrews (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/csltmpl.asp?url=/content/council/mem/andrews_p/index.asp) - e-mail: councilmember.andrews@montgomerycountymd.gov
Roger Berliner (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/csltmpl.asp?url=/content/council/mem/Berliner/index.asp) - e-mail: councilmember.berliner@montgomerycountymd.gov
Marc Elrich - At-Large (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/csltmpl.asp?url=/content/council/mem/Elrich/index.asp) - e-mail: councilmember.elrich@montgomerycountymd.gov
Valerie Ervin (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/csltmpl.asp?url=/content/council/mem/Ervin/index.asp) - e-mail: councilmember.ervin@montgomerycountymd.gov
Nancy Floreen - At-Large (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/csltmpl.asp?url=/Content/council/mem/floreen_n/index.asp) - e-mail: councilmember.floreen@montgomerycountymd.gov
Michael Knapp - Council Vice President (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/csltmpl.asp?url=/Content/council/mem/knapp_m/index.asp) - e-mail: councilmember.knapp@montgomerycountymd.gov
George Leventhal - At-Large (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/csltmpl.asp?url=/Content/council/mem/leventhal_g/index.asp) - e-mail: councilmember.leventhal@montgomerycountymd.gov
Marilyn Praisner - Council President (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/csltmpl.asp?url=/Content/council/mem/praisner_m/index.asp) - e-mail: councilmember.praisner@montgomerycountymd.gov
Duchy Trachtenburg - At Large (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/csltmpl.asp?url=/content/council/mem/Trachtenberg/index.asp) - councilmember.trachtenberg@montgomerycountymd.gov
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Sorry to have a Jon Stossel moment here, but why is the county so involved in this, seeking out the "best deal for the taxpayers?" Do the county or the taxpayers own the site? If not, shouldn't the market decide the future of the development at the site? Shouldn't it be strictly between the Lee Development Group and whichever party decides they want to buy or lease the site and offers the best deal to them?
Why does Ike Legget and the county have to get involved to begin with, or is MoCo really just that socialistic?
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City politicians everywhere like to think they are more than what they are (which is small-time hacks responsible for running a moderately complex organization smoothly). That's why they get involved in things like this, or commit taxpayers' money to sports stadiums, or take expensive taxpayer-funded junkets to foreign lands.
The only way to deal with it is repeated smackdowns from voters, but unfortunately people are generally too disorganized or apathetic to notice their interests are not being served.
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the fillmore will be 5.5 miles from the 930. what music could they book that would not be at the 930 or the birch? then again at 2000 people that might compete with lisner and the warner. live nation owns the warner. i don't see why mr seth would even want another venue. there is no way he could fill both venues nightly in this town. as far as hurwitz tangling with live nation. did he not do a show with live nation at the verizon? politics + money make strange bedfellows.
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Lisner does host LN shows too.
As does DAR.
This new venue will take away all the bands that play 2-3 night stands at the club; that'll hurt them greatly. They'll also probably lose quite a few of the bands that clearly are too big for the club (pumpkins, timberlake, etc.) So yeah I could definitely see this "fillmore" making a huge dent in IMP's profits.
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They were talking about this issue on WTOP last night as I was driving home.
And dcist (http://dcist.com/2007/11/27/more_people_wan.php#more) has a story on it today.
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Here is a copy of Leggett's response to IMP:
link (http://www.silverspringscene.com/blog/2007/11/20/county-executive-leggett-and-councilmember-ervins-response-to-silver-spring-music-venue/)
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Whose Music in Silver Spring?
By Steven Pearlstein
Friday, November 30, 2007; D01
It wasn't too many years ago that even street musicians would refuse to perform in downtown Silver Spring. Now things are so hopping that you've got Live Nation, the country's biggest live music outfit, and Seth Hurwitz, owner of the District's 9:30 Club and operator of the Merriweather Post Pavilion, in a nasty political catfight over the right to operate a new music venue there.
This being Montgomery County, lawyers, lobbyists and public relations consultants have been hired, community groups have weighed in and there's as much concern about process as the actual decision itself.
Caught in the middle is Ike Leggett, the county administrator, who sees the live music venue as the final piece of a thriving downtown entertainment district in Silver Spring.
And pulling the strings behind the scenes is the politically connected Lee family -- Blair and Bruce -- which was willing to donate the land for a project that would serve as an amenity to a much larger development it is contemplating next door.
The problem began in the spring when Leggett and the Lees concluded that they were never going to reach a satisfactory deal with the Birchmere, despite $8 million in state and county subsidies and strong community support for a Silver Spring branch of the Alexandria music hall.
Part of it had to do with money: The Birchmere was adamant it could afford to put only $1 million of its own cash into a $9 million project that was increasingly looking as if it would cost even more. It didn't help matters that the Birchmere was also talking about opening another restaurant and club in Loudoun County.
It was the Lees who made the first overture to Live Nation, which has recently been looking to open one of its House of Blues venues in the District after two of its other clubs (the Bayou and Nation) closed their doors. A public company with deep pockets and lots of development experience, Live Nation was willing to move quickly and sign the same deal hammered out with the Birchmere, along with a commitment to protect the county from any cost overruns. Worried about losing the Lees' land offer and anxious for agreement on a project that had already consumed five years of negotiation and $500,000 in design work, Leggett moved to close the deal.
It was only then that Hurwitz raised his hand. In a proposal delivered to Leggett's office earlier this month, he offered to throw an extra $2 million of his own money into the project and pay double the rent while honoring all of the other obligations agreed to by Live Nation. Even more intriguing was an alternative offer to purchase the land from the Lees and build the club himself, with no government money at all.
There is no mystery about Hurwitz's sudden interest in a Silver Spring venue. While the Birchmere's folk and bluesy offerings don't overlap much with those of the 9:30 Club, one of Live Nation's Fillmore clubs would compete directly for the limited number of rock music acts that draw a thousand patrons a night at anywhere from $25 to $50 a head. And, as we've seen, competition is not something Hurwitz accepts lightly.
Last year, when a District agency announced a subsidized deal to bring a House of Blues to a downtown location, Hurwitz mounted an aggressive lobbying effort at the D.C. Council that effectively killed the proposal.
And, according to a letter recently sent to county officials by Bill Muehlhauser, the owner of the Rams Head clubs in Annapolis and Baltimore, Hurwitz has used his leverage with bands to block them from appearing at Muelhauser's venues.
Hurwitz claims that he's not against competition, just competition that is subsidized, as has been proposed in both the District and Silver Spring. But in the next breath he allows how competition is overrated. In a world where the most popular bands already have undue leverage over club owners in negotiating the financial split from ticket sales, Hurwitz predicts that having more clubs would only drive ticket prices higher and erode profit margins.
You don't have to accept Hurwitz's critique of competition, however, to acknowledge that he's put forward a financial proposal attractive enough that county officials cannot ignore it. I don't buy Leggett's argument that backing out of the Live Nation deal now will forever brand the county as an unreliable business partner. Any business that has negotiated deals with local governments understands the political risks involved.
The better course would be for Leggett to give Hurwitz 120 days to negotiate a land deal with the Lees, line up financing and sign a binding memorandum of understanding to build the facility. If he can pull it off, Leggett will have saved the state and county $8 million, a fraction of which could be used to compensate Live Nation for its time and trouble. And if Hurwitz fails, Leggett can claim to have been right all along while getting credit for fiscal prudence. Politically and economically, either way's a winner.
By the way, it's not correct to say, as most critics do, that Leggett is proposing to hand $8 million in state and county funds to Live Nation. In exchange for its investment, the county will own a building and parcel of land valued today at $11.5 million (A provision allowing Live Nation to buy it later for $8 million will be dropped.) And it is a fair guess that the extra meals and sales tax revenue generated by the facility will more than cover the $400,000 a year in interest payments on the bonds used to finance it.
However you slice it, it's still a subsidy. But considering the tens of millions of public dollars already invested in a successful downtown revitalization, it's a small enough subsidy that it would be foolish not to use to finish the job.
Link to article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/29/AR2007112902341.html)
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As a taxpayer I'm ticked. But the only way to get through to Leggett and the County Council is to write them -- and write letters to the Editor at the Washington Post and Gazette newspapers. They have to be shamed into doing the right thing for us citizens, not Live Nation, or the developer or anyone else.
There's a post above with the links to Leggett and the Council. If you love the idea of the govt spending your money wisely, or if you love the 9:30 Club, write in now -- and get your friends to do it too.
If we all take 5 minutes, we can make a big difference, I bet.
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Originally posted by Roger Music:
Whose Music in Silver Spring?
By Steven Pearlstein
Friday, November 30, 2007; D01
There is no mystery about Hurwitz's sudden interest in a Silver Spring venue. While the Birchmere's folk and bluesy offerings don't overlap much with those of the 9:30 Club, one of Live Nation's Fillmore clubs would compete directly for the limited number of rock music acts that draw a thousand patrons a night at anywhere from $25 to $50 a head. And, as we've seen, competition is not something Hurwitz accepts lightly.
Link to article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/29/AR2007112902341.html)
I'm glad someone finally pointed this out, the whole notion that Live Nation is suddenly going to bring in a different roster of bands than the 9:30 club is ridiculous.
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And here I was thinking that Seth was trying to save the world from the Walmartization (or Starbucksation?) of music.
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" i hate live nation; they own everything." (now)
"i hate seth; he owns everything." (5 years from now)
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Originally posted by walkonby:
" i hate live nation; they own everything." (now)
"i hate seth; he owns everything." (5 years from now)
Maybe at some point in those 5 years he'll bribe you with free tickets for an extra funny message board post.
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Originally posted by kcjones119:
Originally posted by walkonby:
" i hate live nation; they own everything." (now)
"i hate seth; he owns everything." (5 years from now)
Maybe at some point in those 5 years he'll bribe you with free tickets for an extra funny message board post. [/b]
free tickets?
"i hate live nation; they own everything." now
"i love seth; i hope he owns everything." now
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bingo
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I live in Silver Spring, just minutes from the proposed location and frankly the idea of $8 Million of taxpayer money going to fund some corporate chain, deep pockets venue makes my blood boil.
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11-30-07 IFI Music Press Release
http://www.ifimusic.org/NEWS.html (http://www.ifimusic.org/NEWS.html)
Following is the Official Press Release of Institute For Independent Music concerning the matter of a live music venue in Silver Spring, MD.
We are encouraging you to please copy and paste the following Press Release along with the unity statement provided. Fill in your information where noted and send it the email addresses that follow. To be informed about what is happening, please read the article posted below all of the email information.
This is a major concern for the Indie Music Community. We should make an effort, when at all possible, to support our independently owned and locally operated production companies. Live Nation is a spin-off company of Clear Channel. Please help us in this matter by making your voice heard.
Official Statement to Copy and Paste in Email:
I/We ( insert name ) agree with and support the official position of IFI Music concerning the matter of a live music venue in Montgomery County, MD.
I.M.P. Productions and 9:30 Club have set a standard of music venue production that has received acknowledgments of professionalism and integrity across the country. They have continually shown consistent and encouraging support to both local and national Indie Music Artists and have done so keeping an integrity that has created only positive experiences for those Artists. The Institute for Independent Music, inc. (IFI Music), a 501c3 non-profit organization established here in Silver Spring, Maryland for the support, promotion and unity of the International Indie Music Community, appeals to County Executive Isiah Leggett, Lee Development Group and all others involved in the process to re-open discussions regarding the property at the old JCPenney site, allowing I.M.P. Productions to formally present an alternative proposal to establish a venue in said location. It is the belief of IFI Music that the interests of Montgomery County, the State of Maryland AND all local and national Indie and Mainstream music Artists are best served in the hands of locally owned and operated I.M.P. Productions. IFI Music will use all of its resources and network to encourage the support of this appeal in the hopes that Mr. Leggett and those involved will do the right thing and halt any further talks or movement with Live Nation until the proposal of I.M.P. Productions, along with any other interested parties, has been given a fair and thorough chance in a competitive bidding process so that Montgomery County may get the best possible partner for this venture.
Please copy and paste this statement into an email and send it to the following addresses:
ike.leggett@montgomerycountymd.gov
councilmember.andrews@montgomerycountymd.gov
councilmember.berliner@montgomerycountymd.gov
councilmember.elrich@montgomerycountymd.gov
councilmember.ervin@montgomerycountymd.gov
councilmember.floreen@montgomerycountymd.gov
councilmember.knapp@montgomerycountymd.gov
county.council@montgomerycountymd.gov
councilmember.praisner@montgomerycountymd.gov
councilmember.trachtenberg@montgomerycountymd.gov
editor@silverspringpenguin.com
danreed@umd.edu
silverspringscene@yahoo.com
silverspringsingular@gmail.com
awiseman@gmail.com
pearlsteins@washpost.com
marimowa@washpost.com
jadavis@gazette.net
ajasinski@gazette.net
mmills@bizjournals.com
ekillian@bizjournals.com
cmabeus@dcexaminer.com
lbatzler@gazette.net
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can they do all ages shows in silver spring if they serve alcohol?
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which do you prefer? a national entertainment conglomerate injecting competition into a small market or having a local oligopoly grow even stronger? however you choose to spin it, this is a dance-off between two relatively big parties.
county officials should open up the process to encourage other bidders and make it auction-like, ie give the chance live nation to make an even better counterproposal and seth the chance to countercounterpropose... for the best deal for taxpayers.
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Originally posted by 930clubber:
which do you prefer? a national entertainment conglomerate injecting competition into a small market or having a local oligopoly grow even stronger? however you choose to spin it, this is a dance-off between two relatively big parties.
Dude, we're not logical around here. Take this reasoning elsewhere! :mad:
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you know...
I'm really not saying "choose me, choose me!"
the point is it shouldn't be handed to anyone...there should be a process
if, ultimately, after that, people decide it's better to have someone else do it for whatever reason, I won't like it but I won't cry foul
but I am telling you guys...people start fighting over bands, tickets go up
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The Institute for Independent Music has a quick and easy way to voice your support to open the process and take bids from all companies. Check it out - and send it to everyone you know. It takes 3 seconds, tops.
http://www.petitiononline.com/ifimusic/petition.html (http://www.petitiononline.com/ifimusic/petition.html)
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Halliburton in Iraq shows how imperious democratic governments can be in contracting with the private sector. It wasn't until years after the first contracts when the Dems came to regained power in Congress that checks began to applied.
Ticket prices could go up, or more bands will fill the capacity.
M.I.A. played 930 for $25. She played the Wiltern in LA a few weeks earlier for the same ticket price despite that market being much, much larger and having more venues. More venues bid for more bands, ie more venues is a signal for bands making tour dates to consider DC when they otherwise might not.
I'm not in the biz, but I have a feeling that pollstar data subscriptions make all venue operators part of a global pricing village.
But as Seth says, let the chips fall where they may, but let it be the result of a process, preferably a good one.
Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
you know...
I'm really not saying "choose me, choose me!"
the point is it shouldn't be handed to anyone...there should be a process
if, ultimately, after that, people decide it's better to have someone else do it for whatever reason, I won't like it but I won't cry foul
but I am telling you guys...people start fighting over bands, tickets go up
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but I am telling you guys...people start fighting over bands, tickets go up
That's the one thing I disagree with.
Supply and demand rules. Whatever the audience will pay, that's how prices are set now and that's how prices will be set if there were more venues competing.
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I think you have to look at supply and demand differently. The clubs are demanding and the bands are supplying. If the demand increases (because there are more clubs) while supply holds steady (because the supply of bands does not increase) then the price goes up.
Ticket prices don't reflect the demand of concertgoers. If they did, scalping wouldn't really exist.
Originally posted by Stairmaster E:
but I am telling you guys...people start fighting over bands, tickets go up
That's the one thing I disagree with.
Supply and demand rules. Whatever the audience will pay, that's how prices are set now and that's how prices will be set if there were more venues competing. [/b]
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depends on how you slice supply. a very unique act -- small supply -- might see itself benefiting from higher ticket prices via bidding from more venues. but how many acts are unique in that way?
again, M.I.A. sold out in DC for $25. tix sold for a show the same month in LA, a market at least five times our size, for exactly the same price. how do you armchair economists explain that?
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M.I.A.'s agent & manager are intelligent
the vast majority are not
go look at the ticket prices at the Ram's Head...these are the results of bands deciding to play Baltimore because they were offered so much they couldn't say no and, when they looked at the ticket prices on the offer, decided that it didn't matter
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If the demand increases (because there are more clubs) while supply holds steady (because the supply of bands does not increase) then the price goes up.
You mean the price goes up for the venue, but only if they're bidding on the same acts. Doesn't change tix prices though. If they can charge $10 more and people will pay it, they will anyway.
In practice, the venue can't stay in business if they keep bidding higher than what they foresee breaking even on, except maybe for an occassional prestige event. And the prices are already set at that level. It isn't an exact science, but obviously someone is making an educated guess about the maximum they can charge without turning away very many people who'd want to go.
Ticket prices don't reflect the demand of concertgoers. If they did, scalping wouldn't really exist.
No, if there's a lot of scalping for a show, it just means that the educated guess by the person setting the ticket price was low. So if there were a lot of quick sold-outs on a tour, prices may be set higher on the next one to cash in on the high demand
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Even if ticket prices don't rise, i'm willing to bet that service fees will be higher, extra venue fees, and a barrage of sponsorship will greet people attending shows at this club. Will they even bother to operate a box office during the day selling tickets without the surchanges. Remember this is the outfit that would charge the Ticketmaster fees for same day ticket sales at Merriweather.
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Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
M.I.A.'s agent & manager are intelligent
the vast majority are not
go look at the ticket prices at the Ram's Head...these are the results of bands deciding to play Baltimore because they were offered so much they couldn't say no and, when they looked at the ticket prices on the offer, decided that it didn't matter
What shows do you mean? I don't notice a huge disparity. Citizen Cope is cheaper at Rams Head if you buy in advance, and the same on the day of. Dark Star Orchestra seems comparable. The others don't really match up - but I guess I don't notice a huge difference in pricing between the 9:30 and Rams Head.
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Originally posted by callat703:
Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
M.I.A.'s agent & manager are intelligent
the vast majority are not
go look at the ticket prices at the Ram's Head...these are the results of bands deciding to play Baltimore because they were offered so much they couldn't say no and, when they looked at the ticket prices on the offer, decided that it didn't matter
What shows do you mean? I don't notice a huge disparity. Citizen Cope is cheaper at Rams Head if you buy in advance, and the same on the day of. Dark Star Orchestra seems comparable. The others don't really match up - but I guess I don't notice a huge difference in pricing between the 9:30 and Rams Head. [/b]
Markets have a lot to do with ticket prices. Washington, DC is considered an A market and Baltimore a B market. There's far less competition for shows between Baltimore and DC because many bands will either choose one market or decide to play both. A venue in Silver Spring however, will compete directly with 9:30 for the same shows and it is far more likely to drive up ticket prices.
All that said though, it doesn't matter. For me, as a Maryland resident I'm furious that the elected officials refuse to allow open bidding for the planned venue and have commited $8 million in our tax-payer dollars to subsidize a project for a huge corporate player like Live Nation when other parties (like Seth) are clearly offering to save millions of those proposed tax-payer dollars.
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Rasputina will play Music Hall of Williamsburg for $18. $20 at 930. Patti Smith is $25 here but $40 at the Bowery Ballroom.
Some unique acts may benefit from bidding wars that drive up their ticket prices while others benefit simply by having more capacity. Chromeo is an example of the latter. There's too many acts like Chromeo that don't come to DC when they do play NYC or LA or whatever because they have the capacity. It remains to be seen whether Live Nation will expand representation of acts here or blindly compete for every act on the 930 booking list. My guess is that answer is somewhere in between.
Originally posted by Shadrach:
Originally posted by callat703:
Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
M.I.A.'s agent & manager are intelligent
the vast majority are not
go look at the ticket prices at the Ram's Head...these are the results of bands deciding to play Baltimore because they were offered so much they couldn't say no and, when they looked at the ticket prices on the offer, decided that it didn't matter
What shows do you mean? I don't notice a huge disparity. Citizen Cope is cheaper at Rams Head if you buy in advance, and the same on the day of. Dark Star Orchestra seems comparable. The others don't really match up - but I guess I don't notice a huge difference in pricing between the 9:30 and Rams Head. [/b]
Markets have a lot to do with ticket prices. Washington, DC is considered an A market and Baltimore a B market. There's far less competition for shows between Baltimore and DC because many bands will either choose one market or decide to play both. A venue in Silver Spring however, will compete directly with 9:30 for the same shows and it is far more likely to drive up ticket prices.
All that said though, it doesn't matter. For me, as a Maryland resident I'm furious that the elected officials refuse to allow open bidding for the planned venue and have commited $8 million in our tax-payer dollars to subsidize a project for a huge corporate player like Live Nation when other parties (like Seth) are clearly offering to save millions of those proposed tax-payer dollars. [/b]
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Could Chromeo even fill up the black cat?
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here's a perfect example:
Ministry wanted too much money, in my opinion...would have necessitated charging more than the $25 we charged last time, which did just okay
Ram's Head gave it to them
Tickets are $30/35
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no doubt for some popular acts, prices will go up.
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Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
Ministry wanted too much money, in my opinion...would have necessitated charging more than the $25 we charged last time, which did just okay
Ram's Head gave it to them
Tickets are $30/35
<temporary threadjack alert>
just found out that this will supposedly be ministry's farewell tour. tix for b'more are $30 + fees on TM, other tour dates here (http://www.pollstar.com/tour/searchall.pl?Content=A-MINIST&By=All&PSKey=Y&StartSearch.x=18&StartSearch.y=12) ($53.50 + fees for NYC!).
</threadjack>
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So what you're saying is that they're getting the extra five bucks because it's their farewell tour?
On a side note, can I do a 9:30 board farewell tour and collect $5 from each of the 10,000 or so members?
Originally posted by sweetcell:
Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
Ministry wanted too much money, in my opinion...would have necessitated charging more than the $25 we charged last time, which did just okay
Ram's Head gave it to them
Tickets are $30/35
<temporary threadjack alert>
just found out that this will supposedly be ministry's farewell tour. tix for b'more are $30 + fees on TM, other tour dates here (http://www.pollstar.com/tour/searchall.pl?Content=A-MINIST&By=All&PSKey=Y&StartSearch.x=18&StartSearch.y=12) ($53.50 + fees for NYC!).
</threadjack> [/b]
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Originally posted by azaghal1981:
Could Chromeo even fill up the black cat?
they've just added a second night in NYC at the bowery, after having sold out the first. much bigger market, i know, but just sayin'. and no, i have no idea who chromeo is/are, just noticed this in a newsletter.
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Panda Bear filled up 2 Bowery shows and barely sold out the ottobar.
I think Chromeo would be lucky to fill up the BC.
P.S. You'd probably like Chromeo.
Edit2: Had RNRH on the brain. Oops.
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THIS IS NOT THE "JUST ANNOUNCED" THREAD!!!
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
On a side note, can I do a 9:30 board farewell tour and collect $5 from each of the 10,000 or so members?
I'm good for $20.
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
On a side note, can I do a 9:30 board farewell tour and collect $5 from each of the 10,000 or so members?
Do we really need another Rhett farewell tour? You always seem to come back...
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For a 10K contribution into my daughter's college fund, I will make this my last post ever.
Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
On a side note, can I do a 9:30 board farewell tour and collect $5 from each of the 10,000 or so members?
Do we really need another Rhett farewell tour? You always seem to come back... [/b]
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Maryland residents who haven't already should sign this. Only takes a minute:
http://www.petitiononline.com/ifimusic/petition.html (http://www.petitiononline.com/ifimusic/petition.html)