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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: manimtired on August 01, 2007, 10:24:00 am
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http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2003815486_royalty01.html (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2003815486_royalty01.html)
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Not absurd. Performance licenses pay the people who recorded the song. The article mentioned Avril Lavigne...this would not only pay her but also her drummer, bass player etc. Those are the musicians who are probably struggling to get by and really need to be paid for their work. If the restaurant owner is using their work why shouldn't they get paid?
Speaking of, there was a hearing on capitol hill last week that would help these musicians get paid for radio play (right now only songwriters are paid). Anyone know how it went?
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if they need to get a license to sell liquor, why not to play music as well?
that dying industry has to get paid somehow..
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They were talking about that on Kojo Namdi the other day.
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Originally posted by SalParadise:
if they need to get a license to sell liquor, why not to play music as well?
that dying industry has to get paid somehow..
they arent selling music though. if a small restaurant purchased a cd to put in their jukebox i dont see why they would need to pay for the songs again.
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Agreed. It's a pathetic grabbing at straws, in my book. They refuse to grow and accept new avenues of sales or technology, so they start charging for anything they still can. Which cuts off an area of free advertisement for bands. Which drops record sales. Which...
It's like our metro system. Wait, no one's riding and we're losing money? Let's raise the rates! That'll solve everything :roll:
Originally posted by manimtired:
Originally posted by SalParadise:
if they need to get a license to sell liquor, why not to play music as well?
that dying industry has to get paid somehow..
they arent selling music though. if a small restaurant purchased a cd to put in their jukebox i dont see why they would need to pay for the songs again. [/b]
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Originally posted by manimtired:
Originally posted by SalParadise:
if they need to get a license to sell liquor, why not to play music as well?
that dying industry has to get paid somehow..
they arent selling music though. if a small restaurant purchased a cd to put in their jukebox i dont see why they would need to pay for the songs again. [/b]
It is considered a performance of the song when it is broadcast in a restaurant, club etc. That's just the way it's always been.
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You can't sing 'Happy Birthday' in a public place without paying royalties to Time-Warner (http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/birthday.asp)
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
You can't sing 'Happy Birthday' in a public place without paying royalties to Time-Warner (http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/birthday.asp)
Yep. That's why most restaurants have their own lame versions of Happy Birthday songs.
These laws aren't anything new. I find it hard to believe most people in the business don't know about them.
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Originally posted by 6949:
Not absurd. Performance licenses pay the people who recorded the song. The article mentioned Avril Lavigne...this would not only pay her but also her drummer, bass player etc.
Completely absurd. I'm with nkotb and ManI'mTired on this one. Does this include stores like Borders? Will Borders have to pay for the songs they play over their sound system? Maybe Miss Pretentious can answer that.
I can't WAIT for the record industry (and radio industry) to completely implode. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people.
And if you are talking about Avril Lavigne's bass player and drummer being paid for their performance of "Girlfriend" then I don't think they should be paid at all. They should be tried for crimes against nature and good taste.
Brian
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
You can't sing 'Happy Birthday' in a public place without paying royalties to Time-Warner (http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/birthday.asp)
It's all Sonny Bono's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Bono_Copyright_Term_Extension_Act) fault.
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Originally posted by 6949:
Originally posted by manimtired:
Originally posted by SalParadise:
if they need to get a license to sell liquor, why not to play music as well?
that dying industry has to get paid somehow..
they arent selling music though. if a small restaurant purchased a cd to put in their jukebox i dont see why they would need to pay for the songs again. [/b]
It is considered a performance of the song when it is broadcast in a restaurant, club etc. That's just the way it's always been. [/b]
Is it common practice for restaurants bars to pay these fees? Do places like 930, DC9, Black Cat do this? I have no idea, just asking..
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Originally posted by nkotb:
It's like our metro system. Wait, no one's riding ....
what metro system are you referring to?
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Originally posted by Brian Wallace:
Originally posted by 6949:
Not absurd. Performance licenses pay the people who recorded the song. The article mentioned Avril Lavigne...this would not only pay her but also her drummer, bass player etc.
Completely absurd. I'm with nkotb and ManI'mTired on this one. Does this include stores like Borders? Will Borders have to pay for the songs they play over their sound system? Maybe Miss Pretentious can answer that.
I can't WAIT for the record industry (and radio industry) to completely implode. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people.
And if you are talking about Avril Lavigne's bass player and drummer being paid for their performance of "Girlfriend" then I don't think they should be paid at all. They should be tried for crimes against nature and good taste.
Brian [/b]
Yes that includes borders-they probably pay a blanket license which covers a lot of songs in one shot. In the article it said this would've cost the restaurant owner $979 for a year's worth of music. Borders can afford that.
Avril Lavigne was just an example. The same could be said for the plain white t's...if their guitarist played on hey there delilah but didn't write the song he wouldn't receive a penny from radio airplay, but he would be paid by a performance license.
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Ours, but it wasn't put together very eloquently because of the pain killers. It just feels like our system down here suffers from similar issues. When Metro struggles with money and/or traffic, the first answer always seems to be raising rates, rather than fixing some of the other problems we have.
Originally posted by Hoya Paranoia:
Originally posted by nkotb:
It's like our metro system. Wait, no one's riding ....
what metro system are you referring to? [/b]
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Originally posted by manimtired:
Originally posted by 6949:
Is it common practice for restaurants bars to pay these fees? Do places like 930, DC9, Black Cat do this? I have no idea, just asking.. [/b]
I believe so. Check out this (http://www.bmi.com/licensing/entry/C1289) for more info.
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Originally posted by 6949:
Originally posted by manimtired:
Originally posted by 6949:
Is it common practice for restaurants bars to pay these fees? Do places like 930, DC9, Black Cat do this? I have no idea, just asking.. [/b]
I believe so. Check out this (http://www.bmi.com/licensing/entry/C1289) for more info. [/b]
The fact that there is a "crackdown" on this leads me to believe a lot of places must not be
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I'm a web designer who apparently can't use the quote tag properly. Sorry about the above.
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You drive to work with the radio on, listening to music carefully chosen by a radio station to keep you tuned in for the ads it sells;
Theme music identifies your favorite television program and background music stimulates your reaction to car chases and love scenes, medical emergencies and family reconciliations;
The music tempo is used to influence your buying decisions at the supermarket, clothing or other store;
At a nightclub, music creates that party atmosphere;
Music on hold makes the time you are on hold pass more quickly and pleasantly;
Have you ever been at a restaurant and wondered why it was so uncomfortable only to later realize it was because you thought everyone could overhear your conversation? Music surrounds you, creating the privacy you desire.
Music sets the mood and helps emphasize a corporation's message at company events on or off premises such as management conferences, sales meetings and training seminars. Imagine a company picnic, holiday or retirement party without music.
Those are all public performances. Business owners recognize that because music so strongly affects people, it can also help make their business successful. And, like other products, music is not free.
Whenever music is performed publicly the songwriter and music publisher, who created and own that music, have the right to grant or deny permission to use their property and to receive compensation for that use.
http://www.ascap.com/licensing/about.html (http://www.ascap.com/licensing/about.html)
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
You drive to work with the radio on, listening to music carefully chosen by a radio station to keep you tuned in for the ads it sells;
Theme music identifies your favorite television program and background music stimulates your reaction to car chases and love scenes, medical emergencies and family reconciliations;
The music tempo is used to influence your buying decisions at the supermarket, clothing or other store;
At a nightclub, music creates that party atmosphere;
Music on hold makes the time you are on hold pass more quickly and pleasantly;
Have you ever been at a restaurant and wondered why it was so uncomfortable only to later realize it was because you thought everyone could overhear your conversation? Music surrounds you, creating the privacy you desire.
Music sets the mood and helps emphasize a corporation's message at company events on or off premises such as management conferences, sales meetings and training seminars. Imagine a company picnic, holiday or retirement party without music.
Those are all public performances. Business owners recognize that because music so strongly affects people, it can also help make their business successful. And, like other products, music is not free.
Whenever music is performed publicly the songwriter and music publisher, who created and own that music, have the right to grant or deny permission to use their property and to receive compensation for that use.
http://www.ascap.com/licensing/about.html (http://www.ascap.com/licensing/about.html)
music can also contribute to all of these things negatively
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Originally posted by 6949:
Yes that includes borders-they probably pay a blanket license which covers a lot of songs in one shot. In the article it said this would've cost the restaurant owner $979 for a year's worth of music. Borders can afford that.
Not sure if that's true. Borders plays music that they sell. Arguably, they are demonstrating their merchandise.
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Originally posted by manimtired:
Originally posted by SalParadise:
if they need to get a license to sell liquor, why not to play music as well?
that dying industry has to get paid somehow..
they arent selling music though. if a small restaurant purchased a cd to put in their jukebox i dont see why they would need to pay for the songs again. [/b]
neither are radio stations.
i agree it's excessive and a total reach.. but still legal.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
http://www.ascap.com/licensing/about.html (http://www.ascap.com/licensing/about.html)
i'd love to meet the person who had to write this
until i read it, i wasn't really sold on the whole "listening to music recorded by others" bit, but they laid out a pretty persuasive argument ... thanks ASCAP!
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Originally posted by beetsnotbeats:
Originally posted by 6949:
Yes that includes borders-they probably pay a blanket license which covers a lot of songs in one shot. In the article it said this would've cost the restaurant owner $979 for a year's worth of music. Borders can afford that.
Not sure if that's true. Borders plays music that they sell. Arguably, they are demonstrating their merchandise. [/b]
That's a great point but I can't imagine they are exempt from paying the fees. Check out this list (http://www.ascap.com/licensing/types.html). Maybe they are considered a music supplier.
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Originally posted by SalParadise:
Originally posted by manimtired:
Originally posted by SalParadise:
if they need to get a license to sell liquor, why not to play music as well?
that dying industry has to get paid somehow..
they arent selling music though. if a small restaurant purchased a cd to put in their jukebox i dont see why they would need to pay for the songs again. [/b]
neither are radio stations.
i agree it's excessive and a total reach.. but still legal. [/b]
i see the point but when will ASCAP be busting into backyard BBQ's and house parties to demand money? just seems rediculous to me..
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But like the restaurant owner mentioned in the article, if he's paying for music subscription services for his restaurant then the fees should be covered in what he's paying the company who pipes in the music. But maybe the owner is bullshitting to dodge the charges I have no idea.
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He doesn't say what subscription service he uses. It could be something like napster where he pays $10/month for private use. If he used Muzak he would be all set because they cover the appropriate fees.
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Originally posted by 6949:
Originally posted by beetsnotbeats:
Not sure if that's true. Borders plays music that they sell. Arguably, they are demonstrating their merchandise.
That's a great point but I can't imagine they are exempt from paying the fees. Check out this list (http://www.ascap.com/licensing/types.html). Maybe they are considered a music supplier. [/b]
Borders obviously falls under retail but not under "Music Supplier - Radio over Speaker." They may fall under "Mechanical Music - Chain Stores with Audio and Audio Visual Uses" (n.b. for some of you: "mechanical music" means recordings) but I think that may refer to stereo stores.
Anyway, record stores are (were?) pummelled with "demonstration" copies of recordings with the hopes that they would get played in the store. This is part of the reason why I think they would get an exemption.
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I emailed BMI, SESAC and ASCAP because I have nothing better to do at work. If I get an official answer I'll post it here.
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Originally posted by Bombay Chutney:
These laws aren't anything new. I find it hard to believe most people in the business don't know about them.
I agree, they've been around forever. That's why they invented - Muzak to take care of the licensing and music for you. About 10 years ago they went after bars that had their own jukeboxes and weren't paying the license.
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RE: Borders and music stores
Under BMI's current guidelines, record stores are exempt if the sole purpose of the performance of music is to demonstrate and promote the sale of the CD's and tapes that are offered for sale.
If, however, in the future you decide to incorporate background music in your establishment, a music performance agreement would be required.
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I agree that paying for the right to play music in ones business establishment is fair... However, there has been on occasion reports of thuggish behavior on the part of these organizations to collect their fees. One begins to wonder how much money truly gets back into the hands of artists when you hear of these orgs having people calling several times a day in order to collect.