930 Forums

=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: frostytheswami on December 14, 2004, 06:20:00 pm

Title: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: frostytheswami on December 14, 2004, 06:20:00 pm
(from the Baltimore Sun)
 ---
 Huge downtown music club challenges the notion that Baltimore can't bring the biggest stars or audiences.
 
 Originally published December 14, 2004
 
  When the red carpet unrolls at tonight's sneak preview of the new Rams Head Live!, its owner and
  developer are betting that it will usher in an influx of big-name acts who previously bypassed
  Baltimore - and hordes of concert-goers who have had to go elsewhere in the region to catch live
  musical performances.
 
  But first, the club must overcome Baltimore's reputation with bands and booking agents as a
  second-tier market and doubts about whether an over-21 club that will hold as many as 1,800 people
  can attract a regular crowd.
 
  The new $10 million club, in the Power Plant Live! complex a few blocks from the Inner Harbor,
  opens tomorrow.
 
  "The city of Baltimore has been dying for a venue of this sort for years," said owner Bill
  Muehlhauser. He believes the year-round venue - with a tavern, five bars, 40 flat-screen TVs, a
  stage with a huge video monitor behind it and three food kiosks - will attract conventioneers,
  tourists and locals alike.
 
  Some booking agents, though, say Baltimore has never proven that it can fill such a large
  performing venue. Its capacity is more than twice that of the current largest club in the Baltimore
  area, the Recher Theatre in Towson, which can handle a crowd of 750. And it is 50 percent larger
  than the facility likely to be its chief competitor, Washington's 9:30 Club, with a capacity of
  1,200. "It is a huge jump to 1,800," said Paul Manna, the booking agent for the Recher. "The big
  question is, can they maintain it? As a fan, I love it, but it's a tough business. I've seen a lot
  of clubs open and close."
 
  The operators, however, say the time is right for a live music club. They point to the renovated
  Hippodrome Theatre as the type of success story they expect to emulate, noting that in its first
  year it managed to out-gun Washington's Kennedy Center to land the national tour of The Lion King.
 
  "I think this will have just the same impact on the downtown that the Hippodrome has had," said
  David Cordish, who owns the PowerPlant Live! complex and is leasing the space to Muehlhauser.
 
  "It is going to raise the bar on the types of acts that play here. It is going to help with
  conventions. It is going to bring more people downtown."
 
  Baltimore's mayor agrees.
 
  "I think it really fills a void," said Mayor Martin O'Malley, also lead singer of the Irish band
  O'Malley's March. "So often we've all had to go down to D.C. to see national touring acts."
 
  "I don't ever want to drive to Washington, D.C., again in my life if I don't have to," said 37-year
  old Chris Xavier, who owns Baltimore's Reptilian Records and sees live shows "a couple nights a
  week." Xavier said he's missed seeing some of his favorite acts just to avoid the hassle of parking
  and driving in Washington.
 
  Muehlhauser, who opened the venerable Rams Head Tavern in Annapolis in 1989, announced in April
  that he and Cordish planned to create a new club in a vacant building in Power Plant Live!, a group
  of bars and restaurants that Cordish developed. But it was apparent from the beginning that the new
  Rams Head would be a much different venture. The Annapolis club holds about 250 patrons seated at
  tables and features established jazz and folk acts.
 
  Besides its five bars and video-screen amenities, the new Rams Head will serve American, Italian
  and Mexican food. A state-of-the-art music system will pipe songs into the restrooms, Muehlhauser
  said.
 
  The ground level is taken up by the dance floor and food kiosks. A second level - really a balcony
  wrapped around the dance floor - includes more standing room and bleacher seating. A small room
  tucked away on the left and the third level balcony are both reserved for VIP seating.
 
  The club will be open seven nights a week, and Muehlhauser hopes that eventually it will host 10 to
  15 national acts each month, plus local and regional groups. (While such venues as Pier Six
  Pavilion can accommodate up to 4,200 concert-goers, they're not open in the winter.)
 
  But the ambitious undertaking makes some music professionals skeptical. They doubt that Baltimore
  is big enough to make such a large venue profitable. They point out that the only comparable larger
  facility within hundreds of miles is Philadelphia's 2,500-capacity Electric Factory - and
  Philadelphia's population is more than twice that of Baltimore's.
 
  And local music history buffs could point to Liberty Hall, a 2,000-capacity live music venue with
  national ambitions that opened with great fanfare in the same Baltimore block in November 1988. The
  area, then called the Fishmarket and Brokerage complex, closed nine months later due to financial
  problems.
 
  There have been more recent high-profile failures as well, including Redwood Trust, a
  19,000-square-foot nightclub that opened in 2000 and closed earlier this year. (Unlike Rams Head
  Live!, Redwood Trust featured DJ nights and regional acts, not national bands.)
 
  "I've always found it quite difficult to do that kind of business in Baltimore," said Seth Hurwitz,
  a co-owner of the 1,200-seat 9:30 Club. But he acknowledged that "it hasn't really been tested with
  a really, really nice venue, which it sounds like they're building. This is going to settle the
  question once and for all about whether the problem with Baltimore has been the market, or the lack
  of a venue."
 
  O'Malley is confident that there is an untapped audience here. But he added, "It all depends on the
  acts, of course."
 
  And therein lies the challenge.
 
  The roster for Rams Head Live!'s first weeks doesn't fit the definition of cutting-edge fare. Such
  acts as blues legend B.B. King, pop crooner Chris Isaak and jazz man Maceo Parker have been around
  for decades.
 
  While he wouldn't name the acts he hopes to book in the future, Muehlhauser said fans could expect
  "bands that are current, that are up-and-coming, and, yes, some of the ones that have been
  successful."
 
  The 9:30 Club regularly sells out concerts and Muehlhauser said that proves there is a market for
  large live music venues.
 
  But even Rams Head Live! staffers admit they'll have to educate bands and their managers about the
  advantages of doing business here.
 
  "There is a perception - particularly if you are an agent sitting in Monterey, Calif. - that
  Washington, D.C., and Baltimore are one and the same," said Kris Stevens, a booker for the new
  club. "I think that they think Baltimore is some kind of suburb of Washington, D.C."
 
  Jason Pitzer, an agent with P.G.A., a national music talent management firm, said Washington still
  will be his first choice. "If we want to play at D.C. but we can't because someone is booked at the
  9:30 Club, [Rams Head Live!] is an option," he said.
 
  In fact, he has agreed to book deSol, a new and much-praised Latin band, in the space.
 
  However, Pitzer is uncomfortable with the decision at Rams Head Live! to restrict admission to
  those 21 and older. "That would be a huge sticking point for me and my artists," he said. "You're
  saying to fans, 'You can't come hear the music because you can't drink.'"
 
  Muehlhauser doesn't see it that way. "Personally as an owner, I don't like the responsibility of
  policing 18-to-20 year olds," he said. "If I was steering toward that audience, I wouldn't have put
  in five bars."
 
  Meanwhile, Cordish is accustomed to naysayers. After all, when he first began developing Power
  Plant, observers doubted that Baltimore could attract such national chains as ESPN Zone and Hard
  Rock Cafe, which with Barnes & Noble now anchor that complex.
 
  "If you think that people question this, you should see what they said when I announced we were
  doing Power Plant," Cordish said. "My friends were asking, 'Are you insane?' You've heard the old
  expression, 'The harder I work the luckier I get'?
 
  "Well, we've worked very hard on Rams Head."
 
 Live music clubs
 
  Regional nightclubs with year-round live music (with capacities):
 
 Baltimore City/County
  Rams Head Live!: 1,800*
  The Recher Theatre: 750
  Ottobar : 450
  The Funk Box: 450
  Fletcher's: 325
 
 Washington
  9:30 Club: 1,200
  Black Cat: 600
 
 Northern Virginia
  State Theatre: 950
  Birchmere: 500
 
 Philadelphia
  Electric Factory: 2,500
  Trocadero Theatre: 1,240
  Theater of the Living Arts: 800
 
  * awaiting final city permit
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: frostytheswami on December 14, 2004, 06:28:00 pm
I'm skeptical that Baltimore can fill this place on a regular basis. Plus, it will undercut places like the Recher and the Ottobar, so I'm not sure how good a thing this really is.
 
 And I'm sorry, but even driving down from Baltimore, the 9:30 still rules.
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: eltee on December 14, 2004, 06:34:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Frosty The Swami:
 The ground level is taken up by the dance floor and food kiosks. A second level - really a balcony wrapped around the dance floor - includes more standing room and bleacher seating. A small room tucked away on the left and the third level balcony are both reserved for VIP seating.
 
Huh. Where'd they develop that layout?   ;)  
 They make money off of drinks, but they should rethink the 21+ rule.
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: bellenseb on December 14, 2004, 06:52:00 pm
Isn't the Black Cat more like 800? I thought 600 was the capacity for the old BC.
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: Venerable Bede on December 14, 2004, 07:22:00 pm
haven't we already had this conversation some time ago?
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: Random Citizen on December 14, 2004, 07:53:00 pm
I give it two years...tops.
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: Captain Jack on December 14, 2004, 07:58:00 pm
Chris X is all in to satan and Anton Levy.
 He has tattoos of reptiles all over him.
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: Sir HC on December 14, 2004, 10:27:00 pm
I guess it will not take much of anything from the Ottobar (450 vs 1800 is a 4:1 size difference, 50% full at the ottobar is 12.5% at this new place, not a good number) and both Ottobar and Recher have bands that I just could not see in the Power Plant area.  They would freak out the people going to ESPN Zone and the other stuff.
 
 I agree too that it is too big.  Then again it depends how many seats they need to fill to keep it out of the red.
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: jardison on December 15, 2004, 12:00:00 am
Power Plant Live in Baltimore is a magnet for underage college kids so that they can drink and a meat market for yuppies!  I forsee acts going to Ottobar, the Recher and 9:30.  Look at Funkbox, they are a replacement for the 8x10 and they aren't booking anything great since their opening.  Unless you like Jordan Knight (playing in January).
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: hitman on December 15, 2004, 01:29:00 am
If they are going to sell this place out, then they need to get a lot more acts then BB King.  And they need to lower their ticket prices a  bit.  The Rams Head in Annapolis is damn expensive.  Who in their right mind is going to pay $50 to see the reincarnation of the Gin Blossoms?  (January)
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: sonickteam2 on December 15, 2004, 10:13:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by Random Citizen:
  I give it two years...tops.
personally, i LOVE this idea.
 
  think about it....a year or two of going to a brand new venue....21+ (which i like myself, but realize its horrible for business) seeing top acts in a place thats only 1/3 full!!!!! how awesome is that....no more jampacked club....pay $25 to see a great band and have all the room in the world.
 
  I'll go and support...but its gonna be tough..people in Baltimore are poor and ghetto.
 
   they'll have to book some hip hop shows and somehow tap the Jewish community!
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: Random Citizen on December 15, 2004, 10:20:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
   I'll go and support...but its gonna be tough..people in Baltimore are poor and ghetto.
 
   they'll have to book some hip hop shows and somehow tap the Jewish community!
<img src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons6/24.gif" alt=" - " />
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: K8teebug on December 15, 2004, 10:32:00 am
You are all underestimating the sheer amount of assholes that frequent Power Plant Live and like shitty music like the shows they're having there.
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: eltee on December 15, 2004, 11:22:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by K8teebug:
  You are all underestimating the sheer amount of assholes that frequent Power Plant Live and like shitty music like the shows they're having there.
Some of the shows scheduled are artists/bands that have appeared at the 9:30 Club at one time or in the past year.
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: Sir HC on December 15, 2004, 03:57:00 pm
What is funny is when Fletchers would have a band that sells out the 9:30 and it would not be packed.  That to me is the best way to compare DC and Baltimore.  
 
 And Baltimorians are cheap.  They get cheaper beer and shows and still complain (from talking to club managers and bartenders).
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: RonniStar on December 15, 2004, 04:13:00 pm
It's clear to me that the Rams Head Live is gear toward the 21 and over crowd. Do you know anyone under 21 who wants to see any of these shows:
 
 12/15   Gaelic Storm
 12/17   Captain Quint
 12/18   Kenny Wayne Shepherd
 12/18   The Legwarmers
 12/20   The Musical Box
 12/21   Chris Isaak
 12/27   Gov't Mule
 12/28   Gov't Mule
 12/29   Sonia Dada
 12/30   Pat McGee Band
 12/31   Maceo Parker/Melvin Sparks Band
 1/4     B.B. King
 1/7     Gin Blossoms
 1/8     George Clinton & P-Funk
 1/10    Geno Delafose and French Rockin' Boogie
 1/15    Dave Mason Band
 1/17    Jonny Lang
 1/22    The Tubes
 1/30    Joe Cocker/Euge Groove
 2/12    Prescription for Peace        
 2/13    Phil Vassar
 2/15    Neko Case
 2/16    Gregg Allman & Friends
 3/6     Tower of Power
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: hitman on December 15, 2004, 04:38:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by RonniStar:
  It's clear to me that the Rams Head Live is gear toward the 21 and over crowd. Do you know anyone under 21 who wants to see any of these shows:
 
 12/15   Gaelic Storm
 12/17   Captain Quint
 12/18   Kenny Wayne Shepherd
 12/18   The Legwarmers
 12/20   The Musical Box
 12/21   Chris Isaak
 12/27   Gov't Mule
 12/28   Gov't Mule
 12/29   Sonia Dada
 12/30   Pat McGee Band
 12/31   Maceo Parker/Melvin Sparks Band
 1/4     B.B. King
 1/7     Gin Blossoms
 1/8     George Clinton & P-Funk
 1/10    Geno Delafose and French Rockin' Boogie
 1/15    Dave Mason Band
 1/17    Jonny Lang
 1/22    The Tubes
 1/30    Joe Cocker/Euge Groove
 2/12    Prescription for Peace        
 2/13    Phil Vassar
 2/15    Neko Case
 2/16    Gregg Allman & Friends
 3/6     Tower of Power
It gets worse.  I just received this email where it says reply back with bands/acts you are interested in seeing...selling out 1800, I think not.
 
  NEW  at  Rams Head Live !  Baltimore
  ***   JOHN EDDIE   1/14    w/JESSE HARRIS !      
  ***   SISTER HAZEL   1/27   w/Graham Colton Band & Drew Copeland
  ***   EDWIN MCCAIN    2/26
  ***   STEVE VAI   3/24   w/ERIC SARDINAS  !!
  ***   deSOL       1/16  
  ***    FIGHTING GRAVITY   1/5  plus Voodoo Blue,
      Peppers Ghost,  Adelyn, Shane Hines
       The 1st Annual Rams Head Rockfest !
  ***   DAN HAAS   1/13
  ***   THE CONSTANTINES    1/11   w/Oakley Hall
 SURVEY-SURVEY-SURVEY-SURVEY-SURVEY
 Hit reply & let us know if you'd like to see any of the acts !!
 ---Keith Emerson (of Emerson Lake & Palmer & The Nice)
 ---Ike Turner & Kings of Rhythm
 ---Michelle Branch
 ---BUDDY GUY
 ---King Wilkie
 ---Tom Booth (ex-James)
 ---Jans Lekman
 ---Bea Arthur (Bea & her pianist perform a wonderful
      show of storytelling, broadway songs & ballads)
 ---Danny Aiello & his 8 pc. Swingin group !
 ---Gary Lewis & the Playboys
 ---Solas
 ---The Boxtops with Alex Chilton
 ---Little Texas
 ---Air Supply
 ---Tanya Tucker
 ---Blood Sweat & Tears
 ---Rick Springfield
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: eltee on December 15, 2004, 04:43:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by hitman:
  ---Bea Arthur (Bea & her pianist perform a wonderful show of storytelling, broadway songs & ballads)
Is that Maude?
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: thirsty moore on December 15, 2004, 04:50:00 pm
Man, that's almost as sad as dinner theatre.
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: palahniukkubrick on December 15, 2004, 05:26:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by hitman:
  ---Danny Aiello & his 8 pc. Swingin group !
 
danny aiello, as in the guy from do the right thing?
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: bellenseb on December 15, 2004, 05:29:00 pm
What on earth is Jens Lekman doing on this list? I know he's touring, but wouldn't he play at Talking Head? The mind boggles. Jens next to Bea Arthur.
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: bellenseb on December 15, 2004, 05:35:00 pm
On second thought, maybe he'd be opening for Tim (Tom?!) Booth. Might be a good show although I doubt both of them could fill such a venue.
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: sonickteam2 on December 15, 2004, 05:53:00 pm
you know, its times like these, where i realize that, for the most part, to start a venue, club, business venture like this, all you need is an investor and NOT knowledge of .... well anything really.  
 
   But it really makes me mad, because i feel as though i would have great success (actually i have in the past) booking/managing a club/venue like this.  But its always the foolish clowns that have NO sense if being in touch with their audience that happen to know some asswad that will loan then $100K to start a business.
 
   and it will fail.  i had hopes til i saw the lineup!
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: frostytheswami on December 15, 2004, 06:09:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Random Citizen:
  I give it two years...tops.
personally, i LOVE this idea.
 
  think about it....a year or two of going to a brand new venue....21+ (which i like myself, but realize its horrible for business) seeing top acts in a place thats only 1/3 full!!!!! how awesome is that....no more jampacked club....pay $25 to see a great band and have all the room in the world.
 
  I'll go and support...but its gonna be tough..people in Baltimore are poor and ghetto.
 
   they'll have to book some hip hop shows and somehow tap the Jewish community! [/b]
I love it too, because I can walk to Rams Head Live from my house.
 
 The thing that bothers me is that it might steal enough of the bigger shows (e.g., Drive-By Truckers) from the Recher to cause them problems. So in the process of discovering the lack of a market (surprise!) and failing, they also kill off the Recher Theatre.
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: Sir HC on December 15, 2004, 06:53:00 pm
$100k?  I thought I read $10 MILLION was the investment!  With that money you can buy the audience.  Maybe it will be set up so that the music is secondary and it is really just a place to get drunk and hook up, not that there is anything wrong with that...
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: kosmo vinyl on December 15, 2004, 09:02:00 pm
i would guess the query about tim booth would be for the rams head in napolis... which means that he might be lined up for birchmere.
 
 my question is seeing as it's been forever since james has played in the us what kinda of fanatical fanbase is left... and wasn't booth coming off as basically bored out of his mind on the last james tour?  i sudder to think what requests for the one or two james chestnuts known in the us would be greeted with by him.
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: Jaguär on December 15, 2004, 11:59:00 pm
Looks like someone has big dreams and little business sense.
 
 They won't be getting any of my money. That line up makes the Birchmere sound exciting!
 
 In an attempt to stay in the black, you know they're going to charge a freaking ton of money for their drinks which will only help to kill the business. The average Baltimoron can't afford to drink like that on a regular basis to keep them afloat; hence, another failed attempt at The Power Plant.
 
 I highly doubt that The Recher, Fletcher's, The Ottobar nor any of the other Baltimore venues have a thing to worry about. Basically, they seem to be going for different markets and they offer a much better value than what this newbie in town will be able to offer.
 
 No one has discussed the sound quality. This monster could end up being anywhere between the 9:30 Club to Nation. If they get the shell right, maybe they'll get some decent acts in time. If the place ends up sounding like a shopping mall with crappy sightlines, than why even bother in the first place?
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: Captain Jack on December 16, 2004, 01:03:00 am
The Funk Box is just a bad club.
 The 8x10 was lame and the stage was awkwardly too high and joint was too narrow, and the hillbillies that ran it were scary.
 
 The Funk Box's improvements and "remodeling" remind of the Simpsons episode where Moe decides to make his bar "hip" so it becomes M, with all the postmodern bullshit.
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: Random Citizen on December 16, 2004, 07:04:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by El Tee:
   
Quote
Originally posted by hitman:
  ---Bea Arthur (Bea & her pianist perform a wonderful show of storytelling, broadway songs & ballads)
Is that Maude? [/b]
Yep, and the head Golden Girl.
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by palahniukkubrick:
   
Quote
Originally posted by hitman:
  ---Danny Aiello & his 8 pc. Swingin group !
 
danny aiello, as in the guy from do the right thing? [/b]
...And the Papa in Madonna's "Papa Don't Preach" video.  :)
 
 Man, that "wishlist" reads like stuff Atlantic City would take. And Alex Chilton is on that list? Paul Westerberg needs to go kick his ass.
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: TheNomad on December 16, 2004, 11:03:00 am
Hey Seth,
 
 In 18 months, want to partner up on buying this place for $2 mil and running it right?  
 
 I've got me a feeling it will be available.
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: eltee on December 16, 2004, 11:56:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by Stuart Ransom Miller:
  Hey Seth,
 
 In 18 months, want to partner up on buying this place for $2 mil and running it right?  
 
 I've got me a feeling it will be available.
I was going to suggest the same.
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: Sir HC on December 16, 2004, 12:49:00 pm
I would decline if I were him.  It is just too big for so many shows in Baltimore.  In gerenal the bigger the venue the fewer shows that can fill it.  
 
 I wonder if they will have the moving stage to make the smaller shows seem fuller.
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: sonickteam2 on December 16, 2004, 12:59:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Sir HC:
  I would decline if I were him.  It is just too big for so many shows in Baltimore.  In gerenal the bigger the venue the fewer shows that can fill it.  
 
 I wonder if they will have the moving stage to make the smaller shows seem fuller.
Well, there are really several things you can do with it.  
 
   you could split the whole place and make it a concert venue AND a bar, so that you'll have half of the capacity, but still use the rest of the place to make money on just drinks.
   
   and perhaps theres a way to do it temporarily so you can make it all one place for large shows.
 
   thats what I'd do anyway
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: eltee on December 16, 2004, 01:07:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
 you could split the whole place [/QB]
Part of the space could be a coffee shop / used cd store open in the day. (get the tourist $ in too)
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: Seth Hurwitz on December 17, 2004, 07:11:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by Stuart Ransom Miller:
  Hey Seth,
 
 In 18 months, want to partner up on buying this place for $2 mil and running it right?  
 
 I've got me a feeling it will be available.
I passed on it the first 50 times they offered it to us
Title: Re: New club - Rams Head Live
Post by: Sir HC on December 17, 2004, 01:05:00 pm
Imagine too the issue of staffing up a place of that size.  I would guess if you have 15+ shows a month that it is pretty much full time for a lot of people, and if you plan to hold 1800 people you need quite a few possible security, bar, and sound people.  Either they will be cannibalizing all the other clubs in b-more to cover these shows, or all new staff.  That is going to be a hard thing to start up with.