930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: ratioci nation on December 15, 2004, 01:12:00 am
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looks like it could be the case (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64979-2004Dec14.html)
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heh... fuck baseball. Why should taxpayers pay to further enrich spoiled fatcats? People talk about the "mystical aspects" and "intangible benefits" of baseball... it's all crap. Learn to like soccer instead.
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
heh... fuck baseball. Why should taxpayers pay to further enrich spoiled fatcats? People talk about the "mystical aspects" and "intangible benefits" of baseball... it's all crap. Learn to like soccer instead.
well with facts like those I guess I will have to agree
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No runny kicky thank you very much.
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ain't it great one person is getting blamed for baseball not coming to dc and flap over the stadium... what about the 6 people who voted against the legislation and were against the proposal(s) in the first place. even dc business fat cats were complaining about the extra tax burden to pay for the stadium.
typical knee-jerk reaction without looking at all the facts...
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also, a majority of District residents are opposed to the stadium deal... so that one person getting blamed is actually the only person doing her job as a representative.
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can we stop saying fat cats, I feel like Mr. Burns is running for office or something
Cropp had two votes in her back pocket, and business leaders were complaining because the City Council asked for extra funds which had to be raised from more taxes, earlier in the day Cropp was quoted as saying she was very happy with the letter from MLB, then she changes her mind, I understand the complaints about a publically financed stadium, I just wish DC city government would not always embarass itself
Cropp knew the facts a long time ago, she should have made it clear that it would take 50% private financing to approve a deal before this late in the process
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
also, a majority of District residents are opposed to the stadium deal... so that one person getting blamed is actually the only person doing her job as a representative.
Linda Cropp wants to be mayor, she is positioning, I would say alot of the city council members are doing their job as a representative, I bet a higher percentage of people in Jack Evans' district want baseball, he supports it
others, like Fenty, have been against it all along, they are also doing their job, I am not sure what Harold Brazil is doing, probably why he lost
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she wants to be mayor by "positioning," which in this case means speaking out for the majority of citizens of the District. Nothing wrong with that that I can see, especially since the Mayor and a handful of fat-cat sports types tried to force this deal down the city's throat.
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the fat cats down there in capitol city...
fine if you are happy with politicians who just support things for personal gain, just remember that when she takes a position you dont support
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I am so happy to see this shameful deal implode
let some other thoughtless municipality shove this down their taxpayers throats
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Originally posted by pollard:
can we stop saying fat cats, I feel like Mr. Burns is running for office or something
i was just thinking the same thing reading this thread.... :)
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I never understood this really.
So a professional sports team, with a rich owner comes into town, everybody builds him a nice new stadium for his team to play in....then he charges them ridiculous prices to go to the stadium and any profit he makes off the team he gets to keep all by himself?
i mean, really....is that how it works?
no wonder ppl dont like it.....i still think DC will have its baseball before April.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
I never understood this really.
So a professional sports team, with a rich owner comes into town, everybody builds him a nice new stadium for his team to play in....then he charges them ridiculous prices to go to the stadium and any profit he makes off the team he gets to keep all by himself?
i mean, really....is that how it works?
no wonder ppl dont like it.....i still think DC will have its baseball before April.
basically yeah, but he also pays the city a lease on the stadium, not saying that makes up for the rest, but its not like they play in the stadium for free
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
ain't it great one person is getting blamed for baseball not coming to dc and flap over the stadium... what about the 6 people who voted against the legislation and were against the proposal(s) in the first place. even dc business fat cats were complaining about the extra tax burden to pay for the stadium.
typical knee-jerk reaction without looking at all the facts...
<img src="http://www.freedomforum.org/graphics/2000/10/photos/nader.ralph.10-19-00.jpg" alt=" - " />
Tell me about it!
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here's a novel idea... how about making the stadium a co-op venture. that way all those people in the region who want the damn thing can pony up and own part of the stadium. it become an investment, and being stadium owners they can negotiate with the baseball team for perks like ticket discounts, etc. oh wait thats to crunchy of an idea for most americans...
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
here's a novel idea... how about making the stadium a co-op venture. that way all those people in the region who want the damn thing can pony up and own part of the stadium. it become an investment, and being stadium owners they can negotiate with the baseball team for perks like ticket discounts, etc. oh wait thats to crunchy of an idea for most americans...
and major league baseball doesnt care, they wont wait around for that to happen, they can go to some other city
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Originally posted by pollard:
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
here's a novel idea... how about making the stadium a co-op venture. that way all those people in the region who want the damn thing can pony up and own part of the stadium. it become an investment, and being stadium owners they can negotiate with the baseball team for perks like ticket discounts, etc. oh wait thats to crunchy of an idea for most americans...
and major league baseball doesnt care, they wont wait around for that to happen, they can go to some other city [/b]
tell me again why taxpayers should subsidize a fat-cat industry which by your admission "doesn't care?"
I have an idea for a fun sport -- every time someone talks about baseball players as "role models," bean them in the head with a fastball.
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
tell me again why taxpayers should subsidize a fat-cat industry which by your admission "doesn't care?"
I have an idea for a fun sport -- every time someone talks about baseball players as "role models," bean them in the head with a fastball.
my main complaint here is how this was handled by the city council, I like baseball, I liked the idea of going to national league games in the city, but I can certainly undertand the complaints about the deal, but I also dont think it is as bad or as good as anybody is saying
anybody who ever thought that major league baseball actually cared has to be crazy, they were looking for the best deal
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Originally posted by pollard:
[anybody who ever thought that major league baseball actually cared has to be crazy, they were looking for the best deal
Well fuck 'em. I'm a taxpayer, and I'm looking for the best deal too. And the best deal is no baseball.
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
Well fuck 'em. I'm a taxpayer, and I'm looking for the best deal too. And the best deal is no baseball.
you forgot to mention the fat cats
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Originally posted by pollard:
Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
Well fuck 'em. I'm a taxpayer, and I'm looking for the best deal too. And the best deal is no baseball.
you forgot to mention the fat cats [/b]
LOL.
and the fact that National League teams suck and are only good for some good old fashioned World Series sweepin!
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The problem I have with all this is that the DC council went back on their word. Plain and simple. They approve a plan and then, thinking they could get away with it once MLB had a few more eggs in the DC basket, changed their minds.
The fact of the matter is the DC government looks really stupid once again.
I don't live in DC so my opinion doesn't really matter anyway. I'm for baseball in dc and would be even if some of my tax dollars were used to make it happen. That's just me though and I know many here don't agree.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
and the fact that National League teams suck and are only good for some good old fashioned World Series sweepin!
I wonder if Pedro will like the National League :(
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Originally posted by pollard:
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
and the fact that National League teams suck and are only good for some good old fashioned World Series sweepin!
I wonder if Pedro will like the National League :( [/b]
He'll like his $50 Million though, i am sure of that. He's been OK in the NL before.
anyway, by next summer I will be saying "Pedro who?"
and yes, Renteria is EXACTLY what we need.
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first all, the expos do not have an owner. . .and now, they will probably never get an owner. brazil really doesn't know what he's doing, but he made the final point "if you wanted to kill this thing all along, why didn't you do it when we started the meeting"- or something like that. boswell's article is scathing in its criticism of cropp, and i think he's on the mark. . .she knows exactly what she's doing, and has probably been planning this all along.
i'd like to thank herr doom for all of his knee-jerk, boilerplate statements. . .i have to wonder if you've even read anything about this, other than what you've been told to think and say.
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
i'd like to thank herr doom for all of his knee-jerk, boilerplate statements. . .i have to wonder if you've even read anything about this, other than what you've been told to think and say.
I have to wonder if you know anything about this, other than the fact that you really, really like baseball.
http://www.nodctaxesforbaseball.org/ (http://www.nodctaxesforbaseball.org/)
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
http://www.nodctaxesforbaseball.org/ (http://www.nodctaxesforbaseball.org/)
why bother with newspapers, lets just go to something unbiased like nodctaxesforbaseball.org
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
i'd like to thank herr doom for all of his knee-jerk, boilerplate statements. . .i have to wonder if you've even read anything about this, other than what you've been told to think and say.
I have to wonder if you know anything about this, other than the fact that you really, really like baseball.
[/b]
are you a business that makes more than $2 million a year? then, i really wouldn't worry about this tax increase.
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
i'd like to thank herr doom for all of his knee-jerk, boilerplate statements. . .i have to wonder if you've even read anything about this, other than what you've been told to think and say.
I have to wonder if you know anything about this, other than the fact that you really, really like baseball.
http://www.nodctaxesforbaseball.org/ (http://www.nodctaxesforbaseball.org/) [/b]
I read the Washington Post every day, but I assume you know how to find that link?
You still have said nothing that challenges the fact that baseball players are a bunch of tobacco-chewing millionaire rednecks, the owners are a bunch of slimy no-class cologne-drenched fat cats with mobster ties, and people who think "intangible benefits" are worth squandering millions of taxpayer dollars are a bunch of glassy-eyed dreamers who've seen "Field of Dreams" a few too many times.
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
You still have said nothing that challenges the fact that baseball players are a bunch of tobacco-chewing millionaire rednecks, the owners are a bunch of slimy no-class cologne-drenched fat cats with mobster ties, and people who think "intangible benefits" are worth squandering millions of taxpayer dollars are a bunch of glassy-eyed dreamers who've seen "Field of Dreams" a few too many times.
wow. . .talk about ignorant.
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
You still have said nothing that challenges the fact that baseball players are a bunch of tobacco-chewing millionaire rednecks, the owners are a bunch of slimy no-class cologne-drenched fat cats with mobster ties, and people who think "intangible benefits" are worth squandering millions of taxpayer dollars are a bunch of glassy-eyed dreamers who've seen "Field of Dreams" a few too many times.
how can you argue with this, I mean the facts are laid out right here for everybody
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
and people who think "intangible benefits" are worth squandering millions of taxpayer dollars are a bunch of glassy-eyed dreamers who've seen "Field of Dreams" a few too many times. [/b]
Or maybe they're just baseball fans who'd like to see a team in their home town.
Look, I'm not arguing that many dc residents don't want this to happen. But this statement is just stupid.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
anyway, by next summer I will be saying "Pedro who?"
[/QB]
That's what I've been sayin' all along.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
and yes, Renteria is EXACTLY what we need.
just read this on espn (but they have been wrong a bunch of times already)
Dec. 15 - According to a source close to the situation, shortstop Edgar Renteria will be returning to the Cardinals in 2005 ?? and the deciding issue was not money. Even though the Red Sox offer (about $36 million over four years) trumped St. Louis's reported final offer ($32 million over four years), Renteria chose familiarity and comfort with his surroundings ?? teammates, coaches, medical staff ?? over a few million dollars.
His agents are currently in the process of informing other interested teams of Renteria's decision that he will not entertain their offers, but instead will be re-signing with St. Louis.
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
baseball players are a bunch of tobacco-chewing millionaire rednecks[/QB]
They have rednecks in the Dominican Republic, Japan and South Korea?
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Originally posted by pollard:
just read this on espn (but they have been wrong a bunch of times already)
Dec. 15 - According to a source close to the situation, shortstop Edgar Renteria will be returning to the Cardinals in 2005 ?? and the deciding issue was not money. Even though the Red Sox offer (about $36 million over four years) trumped St. Louis's reported final offer ($32 million over four years), Renteria chose familiarity and comfort with his surroundings ?? teammates, coaches, medical staff ?? over a few million dollars.
His agents are currently in the process of informing other interested teams of Renteria's decision that he will not entertain their offers, but instead will be re-signing with St. Louis.
scott boras would never have allowed mere familiarity to triumph!
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all you knee-jerk baseball hatahz: you and i both don't know the complexities of this deal, how it will affect our city in terms of economic growth and how it compares to similar deals in other cities ... i'm not saying its a good deal or a bad one, but the reason we have elected officials is for them to make decisions like this, i sure as fuck know that we aren't qualified enough.
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
all you knee-jerk baseball hatahz: you and i both don't know the complexities of this deal, how it will affect our city in terms of economic growth and how it compares to similar deals in other cities ... i'm not saying its a good deal or a bad one, but the reason we have elected officials is for them to make decisions like this, i sure as fuck know that we aren't qualified enough.
i don't even think our elected officials are qualified. i was watching the debate last night, and i swear, i don't know how half of them got elected. . oh wait, yes i do. :)
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espn sucks
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2004/12/15/renteria_signs_with_red_sox_for_four_years_40m/ (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2004/12/15/renteria_signs_with_red_sox_for_four_years_40m/)
Renteria signs with Red Sox for four years, $40m
By Indira A.R. Lakshmanan, Globe Staff | December 15, 2004
Edgar Renteria signed a four-year $40 million contract with the Red Sox today, giving Boston an All-Star shortstop.
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Originally posted by pollard:
espn sucks
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2004/12/15/renteria_signs_with_red_sox_for_four_years_40m/ (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2004/12/15/renteria_signs_with_red_sox_for_four_years_40m/)
Renteria signs with Red Sox for four years, $40m
By Indira A.R. Lakshmanan, Globe Staff | December 15, 2004
Edgar Renteria signed a four-year $40 million contract with the Red Sox today, giving Boston an All-Star shortstop.
[/b]
so, i guess the hanley ramirez bidding is to begin?? or do they move him to 2nd?
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<img src="http://www.jesusoftheweek.com/art/j2k4-34.jpg" alt=" - " />
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heh... I was just yanking your easily-yankable chains.
But seriously, I have yet to hear any argument for taxpayer financing of a baseball stadium that is not easily debunked. The only semi-valid argument I've heard is that it creates economic gain -- but you would get more economic gain if you just put that money into directly rebuilding that area, rather than spending it on something tangential. That argument is like justifying the space shuttle because the space program led to pens that can write upside down.
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this is a disaster and an embarrasment for DC.
Sorry, pouring tax payer money into more government kofi-annan type DC programs is not going to reinvigorate that or any other neighborhood.
Luring **business** to the District, and actual consumers who spend money that can then be taxed, THAT is the only way to fix what is wrong with the city.
This was going to be funded by a gross receipts tax on the largest businesses in DC. It doesn't come out of general revenue or anything else. It's not as though, without baseball, that money is available to be spent on something else.
Fact is, baseball wants to sell the expos/nationals, and they cannot do that if Linda Cropp adds $300 million to the team's price tag.
This was a win-win for the city and for baseball. Baseball could unload the expos. The city gets it money back, and more, because suddenly there are 20, 30, 40 thousand people from the burbs coming to ANACOSTIA for crissakes to spend money at least 80 times a year.
Baseball will now take its team to a city that understands simple concepts like investment and capitalism. The neighborhood where the stadium and all of its attendant social benefits would have gone, will remain a socialist shithole, congratulating cropp for sticking it to "fat cats" and whitey. The city is a joke.
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
heh... I was just yanking your easily-yankable chains.
But seriously, I have yet to hear any argument for taxpayer financing of a baseball stadium that is not easily debunked. The only semi-valid argument I've heard is that it creates economic gain -- but you would get more economic gain if you just put that money into directly rebuilding that area, rather than spending it on something tangential. That argument is like justifying the space shuttle because the space program led to pens that can write upside down.
how is building a new stadium NOT directly rebuilding an area? how else are you going to get 30,000 people there 81 times a year? if you 'directly' put the money into anacostia, you're just going to end up giving breaks to other fatcat businessmen, although ones with a lesser public profile.
wasn't the area around mci terrible before they built it? i really enjoy going there, and the new stuff around chinatown is a big reason why. if mci was in the burbs, that would be alot less time in the city for me
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yes, and credit to Abe Pollin for building the arena with HIS OWN MONEY!!!!!
wasn't the area around mci terrible before they built it? i really enjoy going there, and the new stuff around chinatown is a big reason why. if mci was in the burbs, that would be alot less time in the city for me
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the same gross receipts tax was used to pay for some of the infrastructure for mci. not the same thing, but the district supported a fatcat there too
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Originally posted by J'Mal:
this is a disaster and an embarrasment for DC.
Sorry, pouring tax payer money into more government kofi-annan type DC programs is not going to reinvigorate that or any other neighborhood.
Luring **business** to the District, and actual consumers who spend money that can then be taxed, THAT is the only way to fix what is wrong with the city.
This was going to be funded by a gross receipts tax on the largest businesses in DC. It doesn't come out of general revenue or anything else. It's not as though, without baseball, that money is available to be spent on something else.
Fact is, baseball wants to sell the expos/nationals, and they cannot do that if Linda Cropp adds $300 million to the team's price tag.
This was a win-win for the city and for baseball. Baseball could unload the expos. The city gets it money back, and more, because suddenly there are 20, 30, 40 thousand people from the burbs coming to ANACOSTIA for crissakes to spend money at least 80 times a year.
Baseball will now take its team to a city that understands simple concepts like investment and capitalism. The neighborhood where the stadium and all of its attendant social benefits would have gone, will remain a socialist shithole, congratulating cropp for sticking it to "fat cats" and whitey. The city is a joke.
ok. . i don't understand anything you said. . .first off, every dc-govt. run project is gonna be an embarrassment, and i agree. . .if there's a private financier who wants to build a team, great. however, the team will be sold, along with the stadium. . .if there's no stadium, then there's no way baseball can sell the team.
secondly. . how do you propose getting business to move to anacostia without a baseball stadium? with a stadium in anacostia, you have at least 1/2 of the people in attendence coming from outside of d.c., and d.c. finally gets to tax them.
d.c. general revenue is a sham. . all the lottery proceeds goes to d.c.'s general revenue fund, and not specially allocated education funds. . .wanna harp on d.c. not doing enough for schools, start there, not the stadium.
as for where the expos can go now? well, there are no other cities that have come up with a private financing option, and d.c. was the only one to even come up with anything remotely viable for construction of a stadium, public or privately financed. baseball cannot sell the expos without a) a home and b) a stadium.
so, i'm sorry j'mal, but each of your statements contradict each other. .you might wanna clarify what you are talking about, because i can't understand if you are for or against the stadium.
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let's suppose they passed the same gross receipts tax planned for the stadium, but instead of spending it on baseball, put it in the general fund.
does anyone expect that the benefits from just another pile of money for DC's 3rd world government would outweigh the benefits from baseball?
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(I think my post was clear. I am for the stadium and think DC's behavior is embarrassing. And baseball has plenty of cities willing to put up the cash.)
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
the same gross receipts tax was used to pay for some of the infrastructure for mci. not the same thing, but the district supported a fatcat there too
not the same thing? It's not even close! "Some of the infrastructure for MCI" was stuff like sidewalk and Metro improvements in the surrounding area. Those benefit everyone. But Abe Pollin paid for the stadium himself with 100% private money.
Also, the whole city has undergone a development boom in the last 5 years... Chinatown would have developed with or without the MCI center.
The supposed economic arguments for the stadium are just as ignorance-based as Republican claims that cutting taxes increases revenue. It is not a matter of opinion: mathematically, it simply does not compute.
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
Also, the whole city has undergone a development boom in the last 5 years...
and why's that?
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so you think that bringing 17-18 thousand people every other night to chinatown has NOTHING to do with the boom experienced there?
let's see, the city had the choice between ---
a gross receipts tax that is paid back, to put a baseball team that could draw 3 million visitors a year to a bombed-out hopeless neighborhood,
or
fight whitey/fat cats.
brilliant choice. absolutely brilliant.
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
Also, the whole city has undergone a development boom in the last 5 years... Chinatown would have developed with or without the MCI center.
Do you honestly believe the huge boom in development is not related to the MCI Center being built and all that it brought (Jordan playing with the Wizards, WNBA, Hockey, Cher, Madonna, etc.)?
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
the same gross receipts tax was used to pay for some of the infrastructure for mci. not the same thing, but the district supported a fatcat there too
not the same thing? It's not even close! "Some of the infrastructure for MCI" was stuff like sidewalk and Metro improvements in the surrounding area. Those benefit everyone. But Abe Pollin paid for the stadium himself with 100% private money.
Also, the whole city has undergone a development boom in the last 5 years... Chinatown would have developed with or without the MCI center.
The supposed economic arguments for the stadium are just as ignorance-based as Republican claims that cutting taxes increases revenue. It is not a matter of opinion: mathematically, it simply does not compute. [/b]
and bringing 3,000,000 people to a wasteland part of the district doesn't benefit everyone? its the same tax, that's close at least
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DC's loss is gonna be Las Vegas's gain. Oh well, I still won't go see the Orioles play but once a year, if that.
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wow, let me get this straight, some of you are now trying to claim that the *entire* DC real estate boom is related to MCI, and not just the immediate area? How much more specious can you get?
I guess the historically low interest rates and nationwide asset speculation frenzy, increasing traffic congestion in the suburbs, and the final removal of Mayor-for-Life Barry from the political scene had nothing to do with this?
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Umm..... Marion Barry is your new councilman, if you live within view of the wasteland that could have been a stadium.
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
wow, let me get this straight, some of you are now trying to claim that the *entire* DC real estate boom is related to MCI, and not just the immediate area? How much more specious can you get?
That's not what you wrote. You said:
Also, the whole city has undergone a development boom in the last 5 years... Chinatown would have developed with or without the MCI center.
Frankly, no, I do not believe the same level and pace of development, if any, would have taken place without the MCI Center (and the new Convention Center) in that area.
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yeah just what the world needs more chain resturants and a starbucks :roll:
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
yeah just what the world needs more chain resturants and a starbucks
hey, hooters serves a valuable aesthetical purpose. ;)
regardless of what you think of chain stores, people shop there, which means they are bringing in tax revenue for d.c. i could do without chain restaurants though, especially fuddruckers.
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
yeah just what the world needs more chain resturants and a starbucks :roll:
That is not the point...those chain restaurants generate INCOME for the District via sales, real estate and payroll taxes. While chains suck they employ people and bring $$$ to the locality.
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just curious ... is there anyone here who is a baseball fan but supports cropp? or anyone here who is not a baseball fan but supports the original proposal with public financing? i would think not too many.
there are plenty of "facts" to support both sides. but either you like baseball or you don't, and that's where your opinion will come from.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
I never understood this really.
So a professional sports team, with a rich owner comes into town, everybody builds him a nice new stadium for his team to play in....then he charges them ridiculous prices to go to the stadium and any profit he makes off the team he gets to keep all by himself?
i mean, really....is that how it works?
no wonder ppl dont like it.....i still think DC will have its baseball before April.
Expos/Nationals don't have an owner right now. That's part of the problem as well.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by pollard:
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
and the fact that National League teams suck and are only good for some good old fashioned World Series sweepin!
I wonder if Pedro will like the National League :( [/b]
He'll like his $50 Million though, i am sure of that. He's been OK in the NL before.
anyway, by next summer I will be saying "Pedro who?"
and yes, Renteria is EXACTLY what we need. [/b]
but I remember someone remarking how loyal and dedicated Pedro is...how much of a hard-worker he is, and such the role model...
Newsflash.....BULLSHIT!
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Originally posted by hitman:
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by pollard:
I wonder if Pedro will like the National League :D
He'll like his $50 Million though, i am sure of that. He's been OK in the NL before.
anyway, by next summer I will be saying "Pedro who?"
[/b]
but I remember someone remarking how loyal and dedicated Pedro is...how much of a hard-worker he is, and such the role model...
Newsflash.....BULLSHIT! [/b]
hey, nelson de la rosa needs to eat too.
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http://www.nodctaxesforbaseball.org/ (http://www.nodctaxesforbaseball.org/) [/qb]
[/QUOTE]I read the Washington Post every day, but I assume you know how to find that link?
You still have said nothing that challenges the fact that baseball players are a bunch of tobacco-chewing millionaire rednecks, the owners are a bunch of slimy no-class cologne-drenched fat cats with mobster ties, and people who think "intangible benefits" are worth squandering millions of taxpayer dollars are a bunch of glassy-eyed dreamers who've seen "Field of Dreams" a few too many times. [/QB][/QUOTE]
never seen a dominican referred to as a "tobacco-chewing millionaire redneck" and mobster ties?
"tobacco-chewing millionaire rednecks, the owners are a bunch of slimy no-class cologne-drenched fat cats"
...now this just sounds like the red sox!
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Originally posted by hitman:
but I remember someone remarking how loyal and dedicated Pedro is...how much of a hard-worker he is, and such the role model...
Newsflash.....BULLSHIT!
I have a feeling you are speaking of me, though, i am SURE i never said Martinez was a role model.
hard-working, dedicated, yes. sharing the same values that I do in staying with a team even if its for less money??? maybe not.
I have NO problem with Pedro. And what i meant by the "Pedro who?" comment was that I am going to move on and focus on who IS on our team....obviously I will always remember one of the most prolific pitchers in Red Sox (and recent MLB) history.
:)
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Originally posted by hitman:
Expos/Nationals don't have an owner right now. That's part of the problem as well.
neither do the Green Bay Packers... :D
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Originally posted by J'Mal:
Umm..... Marion Barry is your new councilman, if you live within view of the wasteland that could have been a stadium.
If that doesn't give a clue about the insanity and stupidity of DC...continuing to elect this thug!
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Originally posted by hitman:
Originally posted by J'Mal:
Umm..... Marion Barry is your new councilman, if you live within view of the wasteland that could have been a stadium.
If that doesn't give a clue about the insanity and stupidity of DC...continuing to elect this thug! [/b]
I think it really just shows how disconnected most of us are from the dirt-poor communities in this city. We don't see how they could elect Barry, they think nothing of it. I don't think it's insanity or stupidity, it's just a complete cultural disconnect.
About baseball, check out this chat (http://discuss.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/zforum/04/plotkin_121404.htm) on the Post today if you're interested (and not registration paranoid)
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My problem with this, as has been mentioned before, is that Cropp could have put this proposal on the table in the very beginning and given them a chance to work something out. Instead, she springs it all in the last minute with the intent of it all to fail. That is in no way shape or form "doing her job." That is ugly politics, plain and simple.
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just curious, how many of you are actually residents of DC and thus have more of a stake than simply a selfish desire to easily see baseball games?
As for Marion Barry becoming a councilman, he ran on an against-the-stadium ticket. People do strange things when they feel their elected officials are not representing their interests.
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maybe they are "dirt poor" because they are "disconnected" from our "culture," and their "stupidity/insanity" is reflected in their vote for barry?
these neighborhoods sure do want alot of government handouts, they're very good at blaming nefarious forces of power, etc. But they don't seem to value education, don't seem to be able to keep their families intact, avoid drugs, etc.
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
just curious, how many of you are actually residents of DC and thus have more of a stake than simply a selfish desire to easily see baseball games?
As for Marion Barry becoming a councilman, he ran on an against-the-stadium ticket. People do strange things when they feel their elected officials are not representing their interests.
i'm a d.c. resident. even if there wasn't a stadium issue involved, barry would still get elected. rightly or wrongly, anacostia loves barry and probably still believe that the bitch set him up.
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
As for Marion Barry becoming a councilman, he ran on an against-the-stadium ticket. People do strange things when they feel their elected officials are not representing their interests.
yeah thats why he won, nothing to do with name recognition at all
and I am a DC resident
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Originally posted by J'Mal:
maybe they are "dirt poor" because they are "disconnected" from our "culture," and their "stupidity/insanity" is reflected in their vote for barry?
these neighborhoods sure do want alot of government handouts, they're very good at blaming nefarious forces of power, etc. But they don't seem to value education, don't seem to be able to keep their families intact, avoid drugs, etc.
I agree with most of what you're saying, and as a white middle-class reasonably well-educated person I don't have much of a place to comment on the these issues, but I admire Bill Cosby for saying similar things.
Like I said, to me, it seems like an issue of pervasive culture. You're born into it, and it's tough to change an entire culture with a huge distrust for authority/police, teenage pregnancy, drug abuse, etc, etc. It's this culture that elects Barry, and, not being part of it or a sociologist or something, I don't see how it will be changed.
Go Nationals! Woo-hoo!
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
just curious, how many of you are actually residents of DC and thus have more of a stake than simply a selfish desire to easily see baseball games?
As for Marion Barry becoming a councilman, he ran on an against-the-stadium ticket. People do strange things when they feel their elected officials are not representing their interests.
I'm a DC resident, bring on the stadium....
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Originally posted by J'Mal:
maybe they are "dirt poor" because they are "disconnected" from our "culture," and their "stupidity/insanity" is reflected in their vote for barry?
these neighborhoods sure do want alot of government handouts, they're very good at blaming nefarious forces of power, etc. But they don't seem to value education, don't seem to be able to keep their families intact, avoid drugs, etc.
this is not directed at J'Mal, more the person who brought up this disconnect? no matter what the guy is a damn thug! he's nothing to look up to, especially when inner city youth need role models...barry is no better than 50 cent in that regard...
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Originally posted by redsock:
I'm a DC resident, bring on the stadium....
goos for you, redsock.
maybe the Nationals will go to the World Series and we can watch the Sox whup up on them ;)
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Originally posted by hitman:
Originally posted by J'Mal:
maybe they are "dirt poor" because they are "disconnected" from our "culture," and their "stupidity/insanity" is reflected in their vote for barry?
these neighborhoods sure do want alot of government handouts, they're very good at blaming nefarious forces of power, etc. But they don't seem to value education, don't seem to be able to keep their families intact, avoid drugs, etc.
this is not directed at J'Mal, more the person who brought up this disconnect? no matter what the guy is a damn thug! he's nothing to look up to, especially when inner city youth need role models...barry is no better than 50 cent in that regard... [/b]
wow, you completely missed my point ...
many/most people in middle class america (including myself) see him exactly as you just put it, and i'm sure there's some people in anacostia who feel the same way ...
but the vast majority of his constituency see him, like OJ or Kobe or even RKelly to an extent, as fighting the man ... combined with his populist rhetoric, barry connects with disadvantaged and poorly educated people ...
is he a thug? sure, but his people love him for all his fuck-ups. my point was simply that the difference in our opinion of barry is a bigger issue, a real cultural chasm.
enough of this shit. let's play ball.
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this pretty much summed up for me what was wrong with what went down at the city council
In several interviews, Cropp acknowledged blindsiding the mayor, her council colleagues and even members of her staff with the amendment, which required that half of the cost of the ballpark come from private financing. She said she drafted it late in the day, "as I listened to the debate, and the concerns I've had over the past couple of months kind of percolated."
she drafted it on a whim
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I'm surprised no one has posted a picture of a fat cat. So without further ado....
<img src="http://www.bigcats.org/abc/images/fatcat.jpg" alt=" - " />
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a couple of thoughts... is the infrastructure really able to handle that many cars on game day? imagine the wilson bridge with all those extra cars trying to get to the game.
do they think people would rather watch a potential average baseball team play then go to the beach on the weekend during the summer?
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
a couple of thoughts... is the infrastructure really able to handle that many cars on game day? imagine the wilson bridge with all those extra cars trying to get to the game.
do they think people would rather watch a potential average baseball team play then go to the beach on the weekend during the summer?
half the cost is for infrastructure changes
and the second question could be asked about any team
bit late in the process for those kinds of questions
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
that I am going to move on and focus on who IS on our team...
:) [/QB]
Kobe Bryant is catching flack for thinking the same way.
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
a couple of thoughts... is the infrastructure really able to handle that many cars on game day? imagine the wilson bridge with all those extra cars trying to get to the game.
do they think people would rather watch a potential average baseball team play then go to the beach on the weekend during the summer?
As for question 1, see the MCI Center and Skins traffic. I don't think it'll be any different.
And 2, Baltimore has a below average team and still draws upwards of 2 million people a year. The Nationals will easily better that their first two seasons alone, regardless of record, so yes, between 2 and 3 million people would rather watch baseball than go to the beach.
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i would imagine alot of people would metro to games. i live in nova, and that's what i would do, and currently do for mci
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no matter what, if this deal falls through, which is highly likely the way it seems now...then DC will never get the chance at baseball again, and basically have the city council, namely Cropp to blame. I guess DC was never meant to have baseball. This will be either the 3rd or 4th time they've screwed the pooch.
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my guess ... cropp will realise her mistake and cave in at tuesday's meeting ...
that said, pro-baseball DC residents should call her office and let her know how you feel, there was a post article today or yesterday that said all the pro-baseball calls she's gotten have been suburban and all the anti-baseball have been DC
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
that said, pro-baseball DC residents should call her office and let her know how you feel
They arent answering their phones, I called earlier and left a nice message though
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Linda Cropp
Phone: (202)724-8032
Fax: (202)724-8085
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
Linda Cropp
Phone: (202)724-8032
Fax: (202)724-8085
yeah thats where I called, I am sure the phone is ringing off the hook
also try
lcropp@dccouncil.us
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
there was a post article today or yesterday that said all the pro-baseball calls she's gotten have been suburban and all the anti-baseball have been DC
its nice to see that all the people who make their money in dc but pay their taxes to maryland or virginia want to come give some back to dc, what a concept
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I'd be interested in hearing (honest) headcounts of the opinions of everyone's friends, neighbors, and co-workers. I've been keeping track, and know only 1 person who is an actual DC resident (out of maybe 20 I've spoken with) who's with the mayor on this.
With suburbanites I've spoken with, it's about 75/25 supporting the mayor.
Even though my informal poll shows 95% support for Cropp, I think if any actual numbers come out that show, say, less than a supermajority (60%) support her, she'll back down by the Tuesday vote.
It will be interesting to see if MLB offers even any token concessions in a last-minute deal, like giving the city a 10% cut of the naming rights to the staidum, or if the uproar coming from the local sports columnists and suburbanites emboldens them to make the city come crawling back to them.
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didnt MLB realize that, like everything else in Washington, this team thing was going to be a long, painful and ridiculous process?
what country are they from?
when has anything in Washington been swift and easy?
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From what I hear MLB doesnt care if there is a team or not In DC cause in 2006 two teams are going to be gone anyways and each of the remaining teams will profit from it. So MLB probably isnt gonna budge one bit.
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Originally posted by mustourdman:
I'd be interested in hearing (honest) headcounts of the opinions of everyone's friends, neighbors, and co-workers. I've been keeping track, and know only 1 person who is an actual DC resident (out of maybe 20 I've spoken with) who's with the mayor on this.
In my office, myself (DC resident) and five coworkers who are DC residents are all adamantly with the mayor on this issue.
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http://www.dropcropp.com/ (http://www.dropcropp.com/)
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it's a well known fact that suburbanites who come into cities for sports events arrive leave immediately afterwards, and spend little to no time spending money in the city. So, another specious argument debunked. Next.
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Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
From what I hear MLB doesnt care if there is a team or not In DC cause in 2006 two teams are going to be gone anyways
the Yankees and the Mets?
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
it's a well known fact that suburbanites who come into cities for sports events arrive leave immediately afterwards, and spend little to no time spending money in the city. So, another specious argument debunked. Next.
I guess that's why the restaurants near the MCI Center are never packed on game nights. :roll:
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
it's a well known fact that suburbanites who come into cities for sports events arrive leave immediately afterwards, and spend little to no time spending money in the city. So, another specious argument debunked. Next.
regardless of that. . .who is spending money inside the stadium?? all of that is taxed, so d.c. is getting money on tickets, parking, food, souvenirs and such.
as someone said, the bars and restaurants near the mci center must be filled with d.c. people, it couldn't be filled with people who are there after work and waiting for the game. no. .that would never happen.
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yeah, whenever i go to baltimore to see the O's, I drive all the way back home to Virginia before getting dinner, and I never take advantage of the fact I'm in Baltimore to do some hanging' around and spendin' money in the city that reads....
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So my question is, because DC is a larger area than just the district limits, why not subsidize a stadium/team with taxes from Montgomery, PG, Fairfax, etc.?
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
it's a well known fact that suburbanites who come into cities for sports events arrive leave immediately afterwards, and spend little to no time spending money in the city. So, another specious argument debunked. Next.
Ticket $20. Food $10. Parking $10 all x 20,000 fans x 81 home games a year = $64,000,000. Now let's be real real conservative and cut that number in half. That's $32,000,000 spent in dc. I'm not saying dc will get any richer off a stadium or team, but your argument is for shit. NEXT.
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Originally posted by j_lee:
So my question is, because DC is a larger area than just the district limits, why not subsidize a stadium/team with taxes from Montgomery, PG, Fairfax, etc.?
You can't be serious.
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Originally posted by chaz:
You can't be serious.
It will never happen, but I dont think it is that crazy of an idea. When St. Louis built a stadium to lure a football team, part of it was paid by the state. That means that people in Kansas City were paying for a stadium in St. Louis. And people in rural MO were pissed off about it as well. That was a controversial issue just as much as whether the government should be paying for it or not.
Details on the football stadium--
The new domed stadium near downtown St. Louis will be paid for by taxpayers until the year 2022. The city and county each pay $6 million per year and the state of Missouri pays $12 million.
But the new baseball stadium being built right now in St. Louis has a mix of financing as outlined below
The financing includes:
# Private bonds worth $200.5 million, to be retired over 22 years. Cardinals President Mark Lamping said by phone in New York that the bonds were funded Tuesday, though the commitments were made several weeks ago. The Cardinals must make payments of $15.9 million each year on the bonds.
# A "down payment" worth $90.1 million, funded by a combination of bank loans and cash investment from team owners.
# A $45 million loan from St. Louis County, supported by a dedicated hotel/motel tax, which the Cardinals must repay with interest.
-- Interest worth $9.2 million, earned on the borrowed money before it's spent on stadium construction.
-- State tax credits worth $30.4 million, and $12.3 million from the Missouri Department of Transportation, which will pay for site work, infrastructure and an interstate ramp project. An existing ramp will be demolished to make way for the new ballpark.
The Coalition Against Public Funding for Stadiums, a local advocacy group that vigorously fought a failed deal with the city, county and Gov. Bob Holden to publicly fund a new stadium, said Tuesday it will continue its efforts to place an issue on the ballot in St. Louis County that would forbid spending tax money on a stadium subsidy.
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Originally posted by j_lee:
So my question is, because DC is a larger area than just the district limits, why not subsidize a stadium/team with taxes from Montgomery, PG, Fairfax, etc.?
great idea. cause you know, those are the people that will have the money to see the team anyway.
I am sorta sick of suburbanites who come and take advantage of all the cities have to offer, but pay no taxes to do so (other than ticket sales and other sales tax, which prolly doesnt amount to squat....since they bring thier own peanuts to the game!!!
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Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
it's a well known fact that suburbanites who come into cities for sports events arrive leave immediately afterwards, and spend little to no time spending money in the city. So, another specious argument debunked. Next.
Well known fact, eh? I guess I can rely on all that empirical evidence you offer as proof, right?
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
I am sorta sick of suburbanites who come and take advantage of all the cities have to offer, but pay no taxes to do so (other than ticket sales and other sales tax, which prolly doesnt amount to squat....since they bring thier own peanuts to the game!!!
Take your complaints to the DC City Council, the Mayor, Eleanor Holmes Norton and the U.S. Congress. DC would see a lot more money in its coffers if there weren't so many tax shelters provided for the larger companies housed within the district. Fannie Mae has a sweet deal with the government and pays next to nothing considering their size.
The commuter tax will never happen as long as Congress has the ultimate say on DC legislation. So, the taxes created with the baseball stadium and the business it would bring is probably the next best option when it comes to generating a new source of income for the city.
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oh please....
DC rakes in astronomical tax revenues:
http://app.cfo.dc.gov/CFORUI/news/release.asp?id=103 (http://app.cfo.dc.gov/CFORUI/news/release.asp?id=103)
District CFO Revises Revenue Estimate Upward By $100 Million
(Washington, DC) Chief Financial Officer Natwar M. Gandhi announced today that the District of Columbia's revised revenue estimate for fiscal year 2005 increased an additional $100 million since April due to an improved economy, increased income and real estate tax collections, and increased tourism.
??By the end of May, the District??s revenue generation results were astonishing compared to what was originally predicted,? said Gandhi. ??From January to May, compared to a year earlier, individual income tax collections grew 15.6 percent; corporate franchise tax collections grew 24.9 percent; sales taxes grew 9.6 percent, and deed taxes grew 61.8 percent.?
The new fiscal year 2005 baseline estimate is $4.1 billion.
$4.1 billion for a city with 600,000 residents????
Not to mention all the FREEBIES that DC gets because of the federal government. Dupont Circle is a National Park. Even the Zoo is a federal expense.
Get over it, people. DC taxes enough and rakes in more than enough money. It is mismanagement and socialism that ails this town. Exhibit A: Cropp's destruction of baseball.
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and there you have it, the world according to the 930 forum's own answer to Rash Winbaugh! :D
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
my guess ... cropp will realise her mistake and cave in at tuesday's meeting ...
that said, pro-baseball DC residents should call her office and let her know how you feel, there was a post article today or yesterday that said all the pro-baseball calls she's gotten have been suburban and all the anti-baseball have been DC
just as i predicted ... although i agree with wilbon that i won't believe it until i see the team playing on opening day, and even then it doesn't look like we're safe ...
Accord Reached on D.C. Stadium
Williams and Cropp Negotiate Financing
By David Nakamura and Thomas Heath
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, December 21, 2004; Page A01
D.C. Mayor Anthony A. Williams and Council Chairman Linda W. Cropp said last night that they had reached agreement on a stadium financing package that would satisfy Major League Baseball by guaranteeing construction of a permanent home for the Washington Nationals along the Anacostia waterfront.
Under the new proposal, which the 13-member council is to vote on today, the city will purchase insurance for potential cost overruns on the stadium and split the payments with Major League Baseball. Also, District officials will continue pursuing private financing for the project for several months. But Cropp said she will drop a requirement that 50 percent of the construction costs be paid for with private money.
Cropp plans to offer the proposal today as an amendment to the legislation adopted last week requiring that at least 50 percent of stadium construction costs be privately financed. Yesterday, Cropp officially added the baseball issue to the council's agenda for its final regular meeting of the year, scheduled for 10 a.m. today.
Williams and Cropp announced the agreement at a news conference at 11:10 last night, following a long day of negotiations between the mayor's office, the council chairman and baseball executives.
Cropp said the proposed changes could reduce the District's potential costs for the stadium by up to $193.5 million when compared with the deal Williams struck with baseball officials in September. She said she expects a council majority to approve the new agreement.
"The final legislation that will be presented tomorrow will offer the significantly lower costs and reduced risks to the District of Columbia that many of us said we were searching for," Cropp said last night.
Reached by phone in New York, Baseball President Robert A. DuPuy said last night: "We are very hopeful that by the end of the day tomorrow, legislation will be in place consistent with the baseball stadium agreement that will enable us to return Major League Baseball to Washington."
Williams and Cropp looked tired at their news conference in the John A. Wilson Building, and only Cropp gave the smallest hint of a smile. Williams moved his leg nervously as Cropp spoke.
"I always anticipated that as we brought a team here and moved through the process, we'd improve the deal," Williams said. "And I credit Chairman Cropp for accelerating the process. We're now able to bring baseball to the city and boost the morale and unite the city, but do it in a way that reduces the costs and decreased the risk."
Cropp (D), who has sought for weeks to ensure that the public costs for the stadium are limited, shocked the mayor last week by persuading the council to adopt the amendment requiring private financing. Baseball officials rejected that language, saying they were open to private financing but needed a guarantee that the stadium would be built with public money if private financing was not found. Baseball officials have given the city until Dec. 31 to approve an acceptable financing package.
Meanwhile, opponents of the stadium deal continued to stand against the revised proposal last night. Adrian M. Fenty (D-Ward 4), who was among six council members who voted against the stadium last week, said that the new proposal from Cropp and Williams would still cost too much in public funds.
Even if private financing is found for some of the costs, the city still expects to implement a gross receipts tax on large businesses and a utilities tax on businesses and federal offices.
"This is materially the exact same thing the mayor sent over," Fenty said. "It's a publicly financed stadium with less risk, but still a publicly financed stadium."
The Nationals, formerly the Montreal Expos, are scheduled to open their 2005 season at Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium in Washington. But after the council approved its legislation last week, baseball officials said that the team might not play in the nation's capital at all if the impasse over a new stadium remained unresolved by the Dec. 31 deadline.
The new stadium, to be built near the Navy Yard and South Capitol Street in Southeast Washington, has been estimated by various city officials to cost from $440 million to $584 million, including infrastructure and land acquisition. The ballpark itself would cost $279 million, meaning the legislation adopted last week would require $140 million in private financing.
Cropp said she agreed to remove the provision mandating private funds because she is confident that significant amounts of private money will be found. Already, she said, the city has a plan that Natwar M. Gandhi, the city's chief financial officer, has said can raise $100 million.
Cropp declined to be specific about that plan, but sources have said it entails charging motorists for curbside parking around the stadium. The Gates Group, a Cleveland-based private equity company, made that proposal weeks ago. Cropp emphasized that no company has been selected for any private financing plan.
The new proposal from Cropp and Williams would reduce the compensatory damages the city would have to pay if the new stadium did not open by March 2008. Most recently, Major League Baseball had said that the liability would be no more than $19 million per year. But under the new plan, baseball officials would agree to a provision saying that the city would not have to pay any compensatory damages if stadium construction were delayed. In return, the city would waive one year's rent payment of $5 million from the Nationals for playing at RFK.
Yesterday's negotiations began when Cropp met in the morning with City Administrator Robert C. Bobb and Mark Tuohey, chairman of the D.C. Sports and Entertainment Commission. Then she huddled with Williams (D) for about 12 minutes in the early afternoon.
Cropp left the Wilson building about 7:45 p.m. as the mayor and his staff were still working on terms of the proposed agreement. She returned to the building about 10 p.m.
Throughout the day and evening, the mayor's staff was seeking approval of the changes from baseball executives, who were communicating by telephone.
Last week, after the council adopted the amended legislation requiring private funding, DuPuy announced that the Nationals would shut down all business and promotional activities until further notice. DuPuy also offered refunds to fans who had put deposits on season tickets.
Nationals President Tony Tavares said last night that of the more than 16,000 people who put down $300 for season tickets, 563 had asked for a refund.
Last night, more than 200 baseball fans and local luminaries gathered at the AFL-CIO headquarters in downtown Washington for about 90 minutes for a rally, anxiously awaiting good news that never came.
The crowd began dispersing shortly after 7:30 p.m., but not before it heard Charlie Brotman, the former Washington Senators announcer, and others wax nostalgic about baseball in Washington. Cropp acknowledged that the acrimony surrounding the debate over baseball has caused divisions among some city residents and leaders.
"For whatever reason, this really was an issue that captured people's hearts," she said. "Tonight, as I sit here next to the mayor, it's time to bring this city back and work together with the citizens."
Staff writers Allan Lengel and Eric M. Weiss contributed to this report.
© 2004 The Washington Post Company
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DC Council Approves Deal to Finance Baseball Stadium (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16738-2004Dec21.html)
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This whole stalling thing was nothing but an attempt for Cropp to get her name known a bit more, and her large face on TV. This new deal only says that private financing can be used, but if none is found, than the original deal is fine. And they only have until 12/31 to secure any private financing (according to channel 9 news).
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it would've been worth it to see Baseball not come to DC just because of all the incredible whining sports fans put up, not to mention the frequently sexist attacks on Cropp, but in the end it's probably a good thing the deal went through, and it's also good that a few additional concessions were wrung from an arrogant, fat-cat monopoly. Cropp deserves to replace Tony Williams as mayor for being the only elected representative in the District willing to stand up against special interests for what the majority of the public in DC actually wanted.
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You sound like one of those pussy whipped morons who has to refer to other men as "sexist" regardless of whether it's true, because it's the only way you can get a woman to sleep with you.
If she is the only one who stood up to the "fat cats" then why is she the one changing her vote while six other council members are STILL voting against baseball? They are the ones standing up to the "fatcats", not Linda Slopp.
Originally posted by HerrDoktorDoom:
it would've been worth it to see Baseball not come to DC just because of all the incredible whining sports fans put up, not to mention the frequently sexist attacks on Cropp, but in the end it's probably a good thing the deal went through, and it's also good that a few additional concessions were wrung from an arrogant, fat-cat monopoly. Cropp deserves to replace Tony Williams as mayor for being the only elected representative in the District willing to stand up against special interests for what the majority of the public in DC actually wanted.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
You sound like one of those pussy whipped morons who has to refer to other men as "sexist" regardless of whether it's true, because it's the only way you can get a woman to sleep with you.
[/QB][/QUOTE]
never assume that other people think like you!
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Cropp deserves to replace Tony Williams as mayor for being the only elected representative in the District willing to stand up against special interests for what the majority of the public in DC actually wanted.
ummm, the only elected representative?? she was all over the place on this deal, for, then against, then for
hopefully Adrian Fenty will run for mayor...
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Why would the Expos even want to relocate to DC.....every team in DC is cursed by the "WE SUCK THE BIG ONE" devil.
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Originally posted by brennser:
hopefully Adrian Fenty will run for mayor...
puh-leeze. that guy is a joke. . .good thing he has catania and schwartz around to make him look like a reasonable voice.
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looking forward to the added traffic on the beltway and 295... maybe they'll come to their senses and run the metro an hour later during the week.
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
looking forward to the added traffic on the beltway and 295... maybe they'll come to their senses and run the metro an hour later during the week.
how do they deal with wizards/caps games? i thought they ran a little later anyway. could be wrong. course, i can walk to RFK from my house.
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wiz games are usually over by 9:45. i don't think they run later, but the metro should run later anyway
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Originally posted by brennser:
hopefully Adrian Fenty will run for mayor...
he is beloved for his constituent service, but then again so was Marion Barry, mayor isnt just about running the city, its about working with the outside forces that affect it as well, Williams realizes this, far too much in fact, a nice balance would be good, not sure if there is anyone like that right now
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
looking forward to the added traffic on the beltway and 295... maybe they'll come to their senses and run the metro an hour later during the week.
how do they deal with wizards/caps games? i thought they ran a little later anyway. could be wrong. course, i can walk to RFK from my house. [/b]
wiz/caps/gtown games are at 7pm, done by 9-10. and the metro gets PACKED.
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
wiz games are usually over by 9:45. i don't think they run later, but the metro should run later anyway
so. . .let's say a nats game starts at 7:05 or even 7:35. . .games should be over by 11. metro closes at midnight sunday-thursday and at 3 am on friday and saturday. so. . .i can see where an extra hour would be helpful during the week. course, if there's a good ol 15 inning game, who knows. :)
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This was fun.