930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: Arthwys on May 06, 2008, 10:48:00 am
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Ok. Someone please explain.
This article in the Post has me quite confused. "Immigrants feel less welcome in Frederick". They have quotes from various "mexican born" residents of Frederick county, one of whom says they worry about running into the police. None of those quoted are termed as either legal or illegal immigrants. Why should one be afraid of police if you're here legally, have proper ID in your wallet just like everyone else? And why would you as a legal Immigrant feel any less welcome? It's only those here illegally that are in for any trouble. Those that are here illegally should know that by being here they run the risk every day of arrest, deportation and the break up of their families. I realize they are here trying to find something much better than what they left. But it's a concious choice they made when crossing the border. They chose to gamble, and some will lose.
Apologies for the random rant.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/05/AR2008050502405.html?hpid=topnews (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/05/AR2008050502405.html?hpid=topnews)
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Of course none of them quoted would call themselves legal or illegal. That would be an open invite US Immigration.
They might be afraid of the police because they have seen what has happened to their friends or family.
Originally posted by Arthwys:
None of those quoted are termed as either legal or illegal immigrants. Why should one be afraid of police if you're here legally, have proper ID in your wallet just like everyone else? And why would you as a legal Immigrant feel any less welcome?
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You mean the friends and family that were illegal? This article didn't mention anything like legal residents being detained or fined or "roughed up" or anything.
And yeah, I realize that they wouldn't give their names and put "illegal resident" next to them. But to make this article more informative I'd rather they'd have quoted illegal residents anonymously, though I guess getting someone to admit that and then be interviewed would be quite difficult.
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if i was questioned by police simply because of how i look, i would not feel welcome either
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
if i was questioned by police simply because of how i look, i would not feel welcome either
bingo.
profiling not dead.
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
if i was questioned by police simply because of how i look, i would not feel welcome either
bingo.
profiling not dead. [/b]
Yes, but to hope and wish for a situation in 2008 where profiling is not used is incredibly naive. It's an unfair but necessary evil.
Brian
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Many Mexican immigrants (legal or illegal) do not speak English as a first language. Imagine being accosted by police, not really knowing your rights, etc. Im pretty sure youre not mirandized in Spanish.
If you want to see a fascinating documentary on just how well our justice system works - watch 'My Life Inside'. Mi vida dentro
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Yeah, my wife and her family are of Cuban heritage and so is our day care provider for our baby. They get stopped every so often to be asked if they are citizens, etc... Not only from cops but from people walking down the street.
We also live near a day worker site in Montgomery County and it has gotten weird on some nights. When it first opened we got letters on our door saying we need to fight to keep Mexicans out (not undocumented workers mind you) and not allow day workers in the area. The terminology used in the fliers was unnerving as they seemed they wanted to violently carry out their mission. On top of that, a week later we are driving by the site and cops are everywhere chasing people off as it looked like a huge riot just happened. The fliers were from some group called Save Maryland.
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stupid laws :roll:
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I generally like to give everyone on this board the benefit of the doubt, but you're making it to tough.
Maybe you missed the posts above about LEGAL citizens with limited English skills being profiled and strong-armed for simply not being white? Or am I missing some law where we force everyone to learn the language or get out?
Originally posted by manimtired:
stupid laws :roll:
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Originally posted by manimtired:
stupid laws :roll:
Yeah, like the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments....
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Perhaps I'm being a touch naive about all of this, but the way I see it...
profiling: a reality yes, a necessity? harder to say
broad sweeping generalizations by either side: outright wrong
You've got the liberals never addressing just "illegal immigration" only gushing over people seeming to hate on "immigrants". That's just stupid.
But on the other hand, perhaps that comes from the stupidity of some conservatives, who generalize by saying "let's kick out the mexicans" when oodles of them are here perfectly legally, and in fact, most of the American southwest was Mexico before it was th US, so oodles of ethnic Mexicans ended up here without budging an inch!
I guess all I'm trying to say is, everyone lighten up. That means cops and authorities, figure out a way to crack down on illegal immigration w/o harassing every brown person you see. Legal immigrants, realize that America isn't perfect and your toes are going to be stepped on for a few generations until everything blends in a bit more.
But then, most of this is probably just wishful thinking.
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
if i was questioned by police simply because of how i look, i would not feel welcome either
And if you are here illegally you shouldn't be made to feel welcome.
When I was going to concerts or sporting events 3-4 times per week I would be 'randomly' chosen for a search before I went inside about 90% of the time. I know it was for the way I look. Get over it it's no big deal.
As a naturalized citizen I probably take exception to illegals more than others. What makes them think they have the right to just show up, with no respect for the laws and customs of their chosen host country, then get free medical treatment, drive around without auto insurance and have their kids go to school at our expense? I know that is probably a small minority of illegals and most just want to keep under the radar, but that doesn't make them any less illegal.
I'm all for people trying to find a better life for their family, just do it legally is all I ask.
I was in Miami on Sunday and went into a Wholefoods. I ordered a cup of coffee (mocha actually) but the assistant couldn't speak English so asked me if I spoke spanish (espanyol??) I said sorry no. She got all pissed off at me because I couldn't speak spanish...in AMERICA then refused to help me. WHAT THE FUCK??!!! I'd heard of stories like that down in Miami but this was the first time I'd experienced it personally. I was going to learn spanish because you kind of need it down here, but after that I just want to dig my heels in and refuse to.
I tell that story because I feel strongly that if you want to live in America it should be a requirement to learn English. Bilingual countries don't work....do they Canada eh??
BTW - not all illegals have black hair dark skin and speak spanish by the way.
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Dude. You drink Mocha?
Puss.
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Originally posted by 47 YEAR OLD VIRGIN:
Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
if i was questioned by police simply because of how i look, i would not feel welcome either
And if you are here illegally you shouldn't be made to feel welcome.
When I was going to concerts or sporting events 3-4 times per week I would be 'randomly' chosen for a search before I went inside about 90% of the time. I know it was for the way I look. Get over it it's no big deal.
As a naturalized citizen I probably take exception to illegals more than others. What makes them think they have the right to just show up, with no respect for the laws and customs of their chosen host country, then get free medical treatment, drive around without auto insurance and have their kids go to school at our expense? I know that is probably a small minority of illegals and most just want to keep under the radar, but that doesn't make them any less illegal.
I'm all for people trying to find a better life for their family, just do it legally is all I ask.
I was in Miami on Sunday and went into a Wholefoods. I ordered a cup of coffee (mocha actually) but the assistant couldn't speak English so asked me if I spoke spanish (espanyol??) I said sorry no. She got all pissed off at me because I couldn't speak spanish...in AMERICA then refused to help me. WHAT THE FUCK??!!! I'd heard of stories like that down in Miami but this was the first time I'd experienced it personally. I was going to learn spanish because you kind of need it down here, but after that I just want to dig my heels in and refuse to.
I tell that story because I feel strongly that if you want to live in America it should be a requirement to learn English. Bilingual countries don't work....do they Canada eh??
BTW - not all illegals have black hair dark skin and speak spanish by the way. [/b]
If you want I can help with a few tips on how to ask a mocha to a Spanish only speaking person
repeat after me: "me da un mocha por favor?"
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Dude. You drink Mocha?
Puss.
Yeah I know, chocolate is my heroin.
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Okay...I can't resist. It's very un-pc so for you bleeding heart liberals stop right here!!
What do a cue ball and a Mexican have in common?
The harder you hit them the more English you get out of them!!!!!
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Originally posted by 47 YEAR OLD VIRGIN:
Okay...I can't resist. It's very un-pc so for you bleeding heart liberals stop right here!!
What do a cue ball and a Mexican have in common?
The harder you hit them the more English you get out of them!!!!!
white stones?
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sorry, i didnt actually read the article but since i saw the topic and know how liberal the average poster is on this board is i assumed it was the usual liberal BS about immigration. sorry. go on...
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<img src="http://pixhost.eu/avaxhome/avaxhome/2007-09-28/Speak_English_or_Die_85.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Dude. You drink Mocha?
Puss.
I can't believe he shops at Whole Foods .
Brian
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Originally posted by manimtired:
sorry, i didnt actually read the article but since i saw the topic and know how liberal the average poster is on this board is i assumed it was the usual liberal BS about immigration. sorry. go on...
I like to consider myself conservative by ideology. Smallest possible federal government, with responsibility spread as evenly as can be among state local and municipal governments. Essentially I'm Libertarian. As for immigration, coming here illegally and using up my tax dollars for social security and food stamps? Very bad. The very existence of social security and food stamps? Also very bad. :D
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Originally posted by 47 YEAR OLD VIRGIN:
When I was going to concerts or sporting events 3-4 times per week I would be 'randomly' chosen for a search before I went inside about 90% of the time. I know it was for the way I look. Get over it it's no big deal.
you were at a private event where security is expected (typically printed on the back of the ticket: by entering the venue, you agree to be searched"). walking down the street = no such expectation.
Originally posted by 47 YEAR OLD VIRGIN:
As a naturalized citizen I probably take exception to illegals more than others. What makes them think they have the right to just show up, with no respect for the laws and customs of their chosen host country, then get free medical treatment, drive around without auto insurance and have their kids go to school at our expense? I know that is probably a small minority of illegals and most just want to keep under the radar, but that doesn't make them any less illegal.
mankie, your anti-immig stance is clouding your ability to stay on topic. when did anyone bring up immigrants that are illegal, don't conform to norms or laws, etc? topic of the day is people being singled out because of appearance, regardless of legal status. go.
nice rant tho :roll:
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I was responding to the initial comment that started the thread, not the actual article linked to it.
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<img src="http://imgs.sfgate.com/n/pictures/2008/05/02/english5.jpg" alt=" - " />
not really relevant, I just thought it was divertido, and I like her sunglasses
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ahem
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Originally posted by Arthwys:
Originally posted by manimtired:
sorry, i didnt actually read the article but since i saw the topic and know how liberal the average poster is on this board is i assumed it was the usual liberal BS about immigration. sorry. go on...
I like to consider myself conservative by ideology. Smallest possible federal government, with responsibility spread as evenly as can be among state local and municipal governments. Essentially I'm Libertarian. As for immigration, coming here illegally and using up my tax dollars for social security and food stamps? Very bad. The very existence of social security and food stamps? Also very bad. :D [/b]
if you are a libertarian, dont searches with out probable cause make your head explode more than any of the other three issues mentioned? just sayin
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
if you are a libertarian, dont searches with out probable cause make your head explode more than any of the other three issues mentioned? just sayin
Well, sure they would. Show me searches w/o probable cause and I'll condemn them. I believe what the article mentioned specifically was that they were focusing on the sector of the illegal immigrant population that was acting criminally. Traffic stops for one. I'd like to give the Frederick county government the benefit of the doubt that when pulling people over they are indeed speeding. And if you fail to show proper ID at that time, speak Spanish but virtually no English, and are of brown skin tone with black hair. You bet they should follow up on that and if you turn out to be illegal, so be it.
I'm Libertarian but ultimately try to be practical. I'm all for espousing Libertarian ideals, however am fully aware that they couldn't be implemented instantaneously. Until we have some sort of control over the thousands that pour across our borders, and some sort of decent, not needlessly harsh laws and policy in place to deal w/ illegals that have been here for years, liberties will be trod upon. It's a work in progress.
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shouldnt you be against speed limits too
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Was it your gay looking haircut, or gay looking eyeglasses? :p
Originally posted by 47 YEAR OLD VIRGIN:
When I was going to concerts or sporting events 3-4 times per week I would be 'randomly' chosen for a search before I went inside about 90% of the time. I know it was for the way I look. Get over it it's no big deal.
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Was it your gay looking haircut, or gay looking eyeglasses? :p
Originally posted by 47 YEAR OLD VIRGIN:
When I was going to concerts or sporting events 3-4 times per week I would be 'randomly' chosen for a search before I went inside about 90% of the time. I know it was for the way I look. Get over it it's no big deal.
[/b]
how do inanimate objects look gay? "hey guy . . . i'm a pair of sunglasses." ??
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<img src="http://startelegram.typepad.com/cowtown_kingpin/images/2007/04/30/bowlingpinglasses.jpg" alt=" - " />
pretty gay sunglasses....
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
Originally posted by 47 YEAR OLD VIRGIN:
When I was going to concerts or sporting events 3-4 times per week I would be 'randomly' chosen for a search before I went inside about 90% of the time. I know it was for the way I look. Get over it it's no big deal.
you were at a private event where security is expected (typically printed on the back of the ticket: by entering the venue, you agree to be searched"). walking down the street = no such expectation.
[/b]
It's still 'profiling' though, so I don't see your point?
:roll:
Oh, and I wasn't ranting, just sharing an experience.
:roll: :roll:
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Was it your gay looking haircut, or gay looking eyeglasses? :p
Originally posted by 47 YEAR OLD VIRGIN:
When I was going to concerts or sporting events 3-4 times per week I would be 'randomly' chosen for a search before I went inside about 90% of the time. I know it was for the way I look. Get over it it's no big deal.
[/b]
What's gay about my hairstyle? Or glasses for that matter.....I think the first time your lovely wife met me she summed up why I get picked on for *random* searches when she said, quote "I wouldn't want to piss him off" unquote!!
On the subject of gay glasses......
<img src="http://mog.com/pictures/artists/0000/0000/0295/pictures/93717.jpeg" alt=" - " />
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Because young folks are afraid you'll bore us with another boring story of yesteryear?
<img src="http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o307/don935_photo/Blog/abe_simpson.gif" alt=" - " />
Originally posted by 47 YEAR OLD VIRGIN:
I think the first time your lovely wife met me she summed up why I get picked on for *random* searches when she said, quote "I wouldn't want to piss him off" unquote!!
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Originally posted by tigers scare me:
<img src="http://startelegram.typepad.com/cowtown_kingpin/images/2007/04/30/bowlingpinglasses.jpg" alt=" - " />
pretty gay sunglasses....
only on a guy. on a girl those glasses are fabu.
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Originally posted by nkotb:
Because young folks are afraid you'll bore us with another boring story of yesteryear?
<img src="http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o307/don935_photo/Blog/abe_simpson.gif" alt=" - " />
Originally posted by 47 YEAR OLD VIRGIN:
I think the first time your lovely wife met me she summed up why I get picked on for *random* searches when she said, quote "I wouldn't want to piss him off" unquote!!
[/b]
As comebacks go....that was probably one of the lamest I've seen in a long time.
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I just knew I should've ended it with an all-caps expletive. :(
Originally posted by 47 YEAR OLD VIRGIN:
As comebacks go....that was probably one of the lamest I've seen in a long time.