930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: lagas on December 05, 2007, 04:56:00 pm
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Morrissey is in trouble in England for a comment he made to NME.
Here's the info...
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article3223685.ece (http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article3223685.ece)
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Has anyone actually read this interview? I have. And I don't really see the big deal. Essentially he says England is losing some of it's identity due to unchecked immigration. Which I don't disagree with if you substitute America for England. I think America is losing some of it's identity due to unchecked/unlawful immigration. But, I wasn't interviewed by the NME and have a reputation (deserved or not) for making race-bating statements. But really, what he said wasn't all that inflammatory. Morrissey just called it as he sees it.
Brian
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What he said wasn't a big deal. It's just getting blown out of proportion.
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Originally posted by Brian Wallace:
I wasn't interviewed by the NME and have a reputation (deserved or not) for making race-bating statements.
So you really are Dupek.
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EDIT
"But, I wasn't interviewed by the NME and DON'T have a reputation (deserved or not) for making race-bating statements."
Like Morrisey was/does. Improper sentence structure on my part.
Brian
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saying that you don't have a reputation, "deserved or not", doesn't make sense.
hi dupek.
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He's exactly right, the England I grew up in doesn't exist anymore. It's gone forever. In fact, I would say that unless immigration is brought under control, Britain will be a muslim state within 50 years. I have absolutely no desire to go back to England, the muslims can have it. Call me racist if you want, but the facts are the facts...
As Elvis Costello sings, "London is full of Arabs"
Or as Mike Scott sings, "Old England is dying"
Nothing racist about speaking the truth.
America take note, unless you want to become the next member of the latin American community.
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Morissey is a cheap bastard that skips out on bills, other than that I know nothing about him.
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lol @ mankie's total stereotypical "angry white man" xenophobic fear of blacks (sorry, "rap culture"), latinos, muslims, am i leaving anyone out? you ok with south asians?
how many hours of talk radio do you listen to every day? "national front 4 lyfe" bumper sticker on your spin bike?
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Brian Wallace:
I wasn't interviewed by the NME and have a reputation (deserved or not) for making race-bating statements.
So you really are Dupek. [/b]
i know you have a top-secret dossier on him like all the rest of us, so what have you gathered so far? any results from the sentence structure analysis and sketch artist expenditures that we all pitched in for?
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Originally posted by Brain Walrus:
He's exactly right, the England I grew up in doesn't exist anymore. It's gone forever. In fact, I would say that unless immigration is brought under control, Britain will be a muslim state within 50 years. I have absolutely no desire to go back to England, the muslims can have it. Call me racist if you want, but the facts are the facts...
As Elvis Costello sings, "London is full of Arabs"
Or as Mike Scott sings, "Old England is dying"
Nothing racist about speaking the truth.
America take note, unless you want to become the next member of the latin American community.
such lizard-brained opinions are based on the belief that countries shouldn't change. technology has ensured that isolation is a thing of the past. people who complain about immigration and exposure to new ideas should be made to give up their telelvisions, cars, modern medicine and plastics.
i fear what percentage would be willing to take that trade-off.
america is a land of immigrants. the english descendent complained when the italians showed up, who complained when the ukrainians got off the boat, who in turn complained when the vietnamese arrived, who themselves sneered at the senegalese...
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I fucking called it!
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Brian Wallace:
I wasn't interviewed by the NME and have a reputation (deserved or not) for making race-bating statements.
So you really are Dupek. [/b]
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
such lizard-brained opinions are based on the belief that countries shouldn't change. technology has ensured that isolation is a thing of the past. people who complain about immigration and exposure to new ideas should be made to give up their telelvisions, cars, modern medicine and plastics.
i fear what percentage would be willing to take that trade-off.
america is a land of immigrants. the english descendent complained when the italians showed up, who complained when the ukrainians got off the boat, who in turn complained when the vietnamese arrived, who themselves sneered at the senegalese...
That is the lamest, most snobbish, pussy argument ever. I know EXACTLY what kind of person you are, sweetcell. "We are ALL immigrants, so you can't criticize." "America is a land of immigrants." Jesus! How predictable! Except for the Native Americans, right? Or what do you call them? "Redskins?"
I am perfectly willing to pay a LOT more for almost every good and service I purchase if it means that illegal immigration will be severely curtailed. I know YOU don't want to, sweetcell. You're perfectly happy living your American life on the back of cheap labor. You NEED your iPhone or iPod or whatever jerkoff tech thing you and vansmack are into now. You NEED the cheap stuff. How the hell are you going to pay off all of your student loans?
I'm willing to make a LOT of sacrifices to stop ILLEGAL immigration. That doesn't make me a racist.
Who would have thought that THIS was the issue that Brian Wallace and Brain Walrus would come to agreement on?
Brian
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You sure do love to hear yourself talk, don't you? (When is the "Things Sweetcell thinks you need to know" thread going to happen?) I'm sure there are a number of Native Americans who wish America wasn't the land of immigrants. And they'd be quite justified in their thinking.
Originally posted by sweetcell:
Originally posted by Brain Walrus:
He's exactly right, the England I grew up in doesn't exist anymore. It's gone forever. In fact, I would say that unless immigration is brought under control, Britain will be a muslim state within 50 years. I have absolutely no desire to go back to England, the muslims can have it. Call me racist if you want, but the facts are the facts...
As Elvis Costello sings, "London is full of Arabs"
Or as Mike Scott sings, "Old England is dying"
Nothing racist about speaking the truth.
America take note, unless you want to become the next member of the latin American community.
such lizard-brained opinions are based on the belief that countries shouldn't change. technology has ensured that isolation is a thing of the past. people who complain about immigration and exposure to new ideas should be made to give up their telelvisions, cars, modern medicine and plastics.
i fear what percentage would be willing to take that trade-off.
america is a land of immigrants. the english descendent complained when the italians showed up, who complained when the ukrainians got off the boat, who in turn complained when the vietnamese arrived, who themselves sneered at the senegalese... [/b]
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
You sure do love to hear yourself talk, don't you?
i think you meant to write "I sure do hate to hear you talk, don't I?". imagine that, i respond to someone's comments with my thoughts - you'd think this is a public forum with divergent opinions. then again, you might be right - maybe allowing narrow-minded comments to die a silent death is the best approach.
and your observation rings a tad hollow, coming from someone rapidly approaching the 16,000 post count :D
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
(When is the "Things Sweetcell thinks you need to know" thread going to happen?)
you'll be relieved to know it won't. i'm not quite so confident/full of myself as to think that i should proactively tell folks what they "need" to know.
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
I'm sure there are a number of Native Americans who wish America wasn't the land of immigrants. And they'd be quite justified in their thinking.
agreed.
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the ironic part about all of this is that brain walrus / mankie IS HIMSELF an immigrant ... i guess that because he's a white anglo, however, he's not contributing to his feared miscegenation
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Perhaps he (correctly) sees himself as much closer in spirit to the cultural status quo of what it is to be American as opposed to other immigrant groups.
Originally posted by Hoya Paranoia:
the ironic part about all of this is that brain walrus / mankie IS HIMSELF an immigrant ... i guess that because he's a white anglo, however, he's not contributing to his feared miscegenation
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Perhaps he (correctly) sees himself as much closer in spirit to the cultural status quo of what it is to be American as opposed to other immigrant groups.
/vomit/
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Or perhaps he came here LEGALLY (don't know if this is true).
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I actually didn't believe that Wallace was Dupek until this thread.
And Mankie is not a racist, he's just a typical old curmudgeon. Think of like your grandfather talking about the Japanese...
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Originally posted by vansmack:
I actually didn't believe that Wallace was Dupek until this thread.
And Mankie is not a racist, he's just a typical old curmudgeon. Think of like your grandfather talking about the Japanese...
I'm glad believing these things makes you sleep better at night.
Now, go back to talking about important things like whether "The Hills" will be renewed.
Brian
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Or perhaps he came here LEGALLY (don't know if this is true).
reread his post, he's not complaining about illegal immigrants who should "wait their turn", he's complaining about people who aren't the same color skin / religion
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Originally posted by vansmack:
And Mankie is not a racist, he's just a typical old curmudgeon. Think of like your grandfather talking about the Japanese...
I get right up in my grandfather's face at every possible opportunity and viciously excoriate him for his archaic xenophobia and soft racism ... i think he just appreciates the attention
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Originally posted by Hoya Paranoia:
I get right up in my grandfather's face at every possible opportunity and viciously excoriate him for his archaic xenophobia and soft racism ... i think he just appreciates the attention
Or he lined up against thousands of them with guns pointed at him. I cut my grandfather some slack for that...
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Originally posted by Brian Wallace:
Now, go back to talking about important things like whether "The Hills" will be renewed.
I'm just happy to know you read my thread - you may actually learn something. Maybe I'll take on immigration next so you can avoid saying assinine things about immigration in the future.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Or he lined up against thousands of them with guns pointed at him. I cut my grandfather some slack for that...
that's because you, sadly, are intellectually flaccid ... i, on the other hand, have no problem with fashioning a theoretical construct and then sticking by it blindly through all of its logical conclusions, no matter how unreasonable or unwarranted they may seem
it ain't easy to have your family disown you due to your fervent and unrelenting promotion of cultural and moral relativism, but i stand proud in not "cutting any slack"
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hoya: you can also sleep well at night knowing you're not flip-flopping on the issue!
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Originally posted by Hoya Paranoia:
that's because you, sadly, are intellectually flaccid ... i, on the other hand, have no problem with fashioning a theoretical construct and then sticking by it blindly through all of its logical conclusions, no matter how unreasonable or unwarranted they may seem
it ain't easy to have your family disown you due to your fervent and unrelenting promotion of cultural and moral relativism, but i stand proud in not "cutting any slack"
I see years of therapy in your future....
No, I grew up in a fairly liberal household where the race was to see who could be the most liberal. I do admit, however, to cutting a little extra slack to The Greatest Generation for the effects of WWII. My grandfather despite many return trips to Europe refuses to set foot in Germany (or Austria) and refuses to buy a German or Japanese car.
Of course I know these things are ridiculous intellectually, but I could never pretend that as many books as I've read on the war, and documentaries seen, to understand what he went through those four years in France, Belgium and Germany and then on to the Pacific. And for that reason and countless nights talking to him about it and it's effects, I cut him some slack. If that makes me intellectually flaccid, so be it. I tend to think it makes me compassionate.
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Originally posted by Hoya Paranoia:
it ain't easy to have your family disown you due to your fervent and unrelenting promotion of cultural and moral relativism, but i stand proud in not "cutting any slack"
Awww..do you need a hug? I'll make you a mix-tape with plenty of MCR, FOB and PATD on it, if it will make you feel better.
Brian
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Originally posted by Brian Wallace:
Originally posted by Hoya Paranoia:
[qb] it ain't easy to have your family disown you due to your fervent and unrelenting promotion of cultural and moral relativism, but i stand proud in not "cutting any slack" [/b]
they might have just disowned you for being a complete douchebag too...
please tell me youre still in college..
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my lord, i was being sarcastic, do you think anyone could have actually meant what i wrote?
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Originally posted by vansmack:
If that makes me intellectually flaccid, so be it. I tend to think it makes me compassionate.
i'm surprised you carried this to its logical conclusion, i hate to break it to you, but i wasn't being truthful in my previous posts (i thought they were kind of funny, i guess that was lost on everyone)
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I sometimes wonder if maybe I'm speaking a foriegn language that you dumb fucks don't understand going by your responses. Or maybe it's just your tiny liberal brain-washed minds program you to offer the same response to anyone who happens to have a differing opinion of yourself.
So having an opinion that hip hop is just crap somehow translates into 'I'm afraid of hip hop and blacks'?(not that my initial comment made any reference to hip hop or black people for that matter, but you're welcome to throw your tired old race card in at will, and you do....at every opportunity)
In fact....I don't think my post said I'm afraid of anything, nor did it say I believe countries shouldn't change. England has changed and I don't like the changes, but I've accpeted them and stayed the fuck out because of them. There's world of difference from say a French family moving to Britain and living in harmony within the (now dead) British culture and a muslim family moving in and slaughtering their daughter because she had the audacity to date an English boy, then call it an 'honor killing'. Or get a job at a restaurant and refusing to touch ham, or going to an English school and demanding the school change their menu to suit them....I just ask myself why on earth did they move from their country of origin if that's how they want to live in the first place? You don't see me jumping up and down and screaming because I want to drive my car on the left side of the road do you? All they've done is give up sunny weather for pissing rain if you ask me.
And for the record, I came in this country legally, although I wish I was an illegal sometimes so I could get away without paying taxes, get a drivers license but never have to insure my car and get free medical benefits. NOw that's living the American dream!!!
I say welcome to my country, this is how we live and this is the language we speak. If you like it great, if not FUCK OFF HOME
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Originally posted by Brain Walrus:
I say welcome to my country, this is how we live and this is the language we speak. If you like it great, if not FUCK OFF HOME
Welcome to my wonderful country.
Here in America, we don't say things like "FUCK OFF HOME." We say "GO THE FUCK HOME"
Please stop bastardizing our beautiful language.
Thanks!
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Originally posted by Hoya Paranoia:
i'm surprised you carried this to its logical conclusion, i hate to break it to you, but i wasn't being truthful in my previous posts (i thought they were kind of funny, i guess that was lost on everyone)
Hilarious - I completely missed it! In my defense it's still early here and I hadn't yet openend my Mountain Dew so my Spidey sense is off. Nicely done.
I was also watching Band of Brothers and beating Call of Duty 2 this weekend so I have a heightened WWII sense on at the moment.
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Originally posted by Brain Walrus:
So having an opinion that hip hop is just crap somehow translates into 'I'm afraid of hip hop and blacks'?(not that my initial comment made any reference to hip hop or black people for that matter, but you're welcome to throw your tired old race card in at will, and you do....at every opportunity)
i say this because you have transposed your "opinion that hip hop is crap" (an extremely valid opinion about music) to pretty much any type of "urban culture" on this board, and you do so....at every opportunity
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Originally posted by Brain Walrus:
a muslim family moving in and slaughtering their daughter because she had the audacity to date an English boy, then call it an 'honor killing'.
And this is why change is good Mank. If you do that in Britian or America, you go to jail for murder, and the more these things are dealt with in a manner that fits today's society, the more progress will be made in societies that are stuck in the 16th century. That's why I welcome more immigrants to developed societies, and if they faced more welcoming and had help assimilating rather than "FECK OFF HOME" they'd be much more likely to embrace your developed society rather than revert to their ancient ways.
Originally posted by Brain Walrus:
And for the record, I came in this country legally
Um, I'm not even going to touch that.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
the more these things are dealt with in a manner that fits today's society, the more progress will be made in societies that are stuck in the 6th century.
there you go
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Originally posted by vansmack:
If you do that in Britian or America, you go to jail for murder, and the more these things are dealt with in a manner that fits today's society, the more progress will be made in societies that are stuck in the 16th century. That's why I welcome more immigrants to developed societies, and if they faced more welcoming and had help assimilating rather than "FECK OFF HOME" they'd be much more likely to embrace your developed society rather than revert to their ancient ways.
Oh, that's awful. So naive and unrealistic. Everything's rainbows and moonbeams in your world, isn't it? Do you fart cotton candy, too? I hope to God you're not a lawyer.
Fantastic song. Why wasn't this in their set list for the "Turn It On Again 2007" tour? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7q1H3VKdp0)
Brian
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The fact that the father and uncle of the girl I was referring to are sat in prison wondering what they did wrong tell me their beliefs are far stronger than our laws, so NO, it won't change.
And may I remind you...it was our language first, you lot bastardized it.
Also, I don't hate 'urban music' The Smiths is pretty urban if you ask me...Morrisseys lyrics are mostly about life in Manchester (Headmasters ritual, suffer little children to name just two) so I guess I am into hip hop after all.
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Originally posted by Brian Wallace:
Do you fart cotton candy, too?
No, but I do smell my own farts and contribute to the Smug.
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Remember, we are Anglo-hyphen-Saxons. The Anglos came from what we call now Denmark. And the Saxons came from North Germany. So the only bit that actually comes from England in Anglo-hyphen-Saxon is the hyphen.
-Billy Bragg
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by Brian Wallace:
Do you fart cotton candy, too?
No, but I do smell my own farts and contribute to the Smug. [/b]
Yeah, we know. You don't have to tell us.
Brian
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Originally posted by Brain Walrus:
The fact that the father and uncle of the girl I was referring to are sat in prison wondering what they did wrong tell me their beliefs are far stronger than our laws, so NO, it won't change.
It's not them you need to worry about Mank - it's the generation behind them who see this and have to come to terms with it. Eventually, the Muslim world will find vocal leaders that will point out that sitting behind bars is no way to live your life, and all we need to do as a developed society is provide them with an audience. They're not going to get an audience in an undeveloped society.
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Originally posted by Brain Walrus:
And may I remind you...it was our language first, you lot bastardized it.
are you really that block-headed? not to pat myself on the back too much (although i'm really good at that), but i'll walk you through my limited thought process in that post:
i anticipated your using the amusingly stereotypical self-righteous harangue that "americans bastardized our language." i then used this anticipation along with rhetorical tools known as "irony" and "sardonicism" to turn your words against you and illustrate your utter hypocrisy. it's really some pretty incredible stuff ;)
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by Brain Walrus:
The fact that the father and uncle of the girl I was referring to are sat in prison wondering what they did wrong tell me their beliefs are far stronger than our laws, so NO, it won't change.
It's not them you need to worry about Mank - it's the generation behind them who see this and have to come to terms with it. Eventually, the Muslim world will find vocal leaders that will point out that sitting behind bars is no way to live your life, and all we need to do as a developed society is provide them with an audience. They're not going to get an audience in an undeveloped society. [/b]
I hope you're right smackie, but I think you're just naive. It hasn't changed since the 7th century so it's not likely to change now.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by Brain Walrus:
The fact that the father and uncle of the girl I was referring to are sat in prison wondering what they did wrong tell me their beliefs are far stronger than our laws, so NO, it won't change.
It's not them you need to worry about Mank - it's the generation behind them who see this and have to come to terms with it. Eventually, the Muslim world will find vocal leaders that will point out that sitting behind bars is no way to live your life, and all we need to do as a developed society is provide them with an audience. They're not going to get an audience in an undeveloped society. [/b]
one would think so, but then, booker t. washington died nearly 100 years ago. . oh wait, you're talking about muslims. sorry.
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good thread
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Originally posted by Hoya Paranoia:
i wasn't being truthful in my previous posts (i thought they were kind of funny, i guess that was lost on everyone)
no no, i got it. i thought it was quite funny.
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Hey smackie, maybe there is hope
Peer criticises Muslim 'hotheads'
Lady Warsi helped win the release of UK teacher Gillian Gibbons.
Muslim peer Baroness Warsi has hit out at Muslim "hardliners and hotheads" who use Islam to argue against voting and equal rights for women.
The Conservative shadow minister for community cohesion said it was crucial to distinguish between social demands and genuine religious requirements.
She urged Muslims not to allow such confusion to cut them off from society.
Lady Warsi, speaking at a conference in London, also said Muslims had a special responsibility to defeat extremism.
Addressing the conference on race equality organised by the Guardian newspaper, she said it was possible to be both proud to be Muslim and British and that extremists did not represent the majority of the UK's Muslim community.
"I've got a clear message to the hardliners and hotheads who claim to speak for British Muslims. When you say that voting is un-Islamic, you're wrong.
Confusing the cultural and the religious is wrong because it's divisive
Lady Warsi
Conservative Muslim peer
"When you say that women should not have access to education or employment; that women's equality is un-Islamic; or that women should not adopt leadership positions like politics, you're wrong, wrong, wrong."
Lady Warsi, who lobbied the Sudanese president to secure the release of British schoolteacher Gillian Gibbons after she was jailed for letting her class name a teddy bear Muhammad, called on all Muslims to "engage robustly" with "cultural opinions" about Islamic behaviour where they threatened to divide communities.
She warned that social expectations - "often pretty dubious ones" - should not be mistaken for true religious requirements.
"Confusing the cultural and the religious is wrong because it's divisive - it leads to separation as devout young people think it's their religious duty to cut themselves off from wider society," she said.
"As long as the Muslim community remains in a victim culture, a siege mentality, they allow others to control the debate."
Veil 'choice'
Islam was "unambiguous" in its rejection of forced marriages, she argued, while those behind so-called honour killings should not be permitted "to hide behind any faith".
She went on to say Muslim women should have the choice whether to wear the face veil or not, but acknowledged there would be times when - for reasons of security or health and safety - it would be necessary to remove it.
She called on all members of the Muslim community to help in the fight against terrorism.
"We must accept that we're in all in this together - but Muslims have an added responsibility to defeat extremism, because extremism is claimed in the name of Islam," Baroness Warsi said.
"It's also more personal to us because it's in our community that any backlash is also felt."
The government and society in general also had roles to play in making the Muslim community feel part of the wider community of Britain, she added.
but then again, she'll probably be 'honor killed' by ramadam
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Originally posted by Brain Walrus:
Hey smackie, maybe there is hope
I've been accused of a lot worse than being naive, Mank. And yes, every muslim leader that steps forward puts their life at risk - but that's not new to any "opposition" leader.
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nice to see the natives mix it up.
i like morrissey's willingness to put his money where his mouth is -- he emigrated rather than stay and complain like most.
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Originally posted by 930clubber:
nice to see the natives mix it up.
i like morrissey's willingness to put his money where his mouth is -- he emigrated rather than stay and complain like most.
Yeah, me and the Mozzer have a lot in common really! ;)
I also left DC for the similar reasons....