930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: SalParadise on March 11, 2005, 11:00:00 am
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i'm looking into finally buying myself something here in the city. seems like pretty much all buildings in DC are these "co-ops". i didn't even know what this was until a couple of days ago...and still know very little.
anyone here with experience can brief me on what to expect? advantages/disadvantages? should i avoid like the plague?
any info would be greatly appreciated.
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you must only be looking at old buildings, because new buildings are condos, never co-ops...
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yep, mostly old buildings at this point (i've only been looking for about a week).
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Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
because new buildings are condos, never co-ops...
this is good info though, thanks.
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Don't know if my Co-op experience is the same as what you are looking at. But, being apart of the Co-op which owns the units in Old Greenbelt has been a positive experience for me. It gives one the advantage of apt living because for the monthly fee they take of maintenance (plumbing, electrical) as well as any infrastructure improvements such as roof replacements. But, you own the unit as regular home so you get the tax benefits as well as gaining equity etc...
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Finally! A topic that I actually know something about. I've been a member of the forum since God-knows-when, but haven't had anything useful to contribute. Anyway, at the risk of going over things that everyone knows, a co-op is a building that's owned by a corporation in which the residents own shares. Unlike a condo, where you actually own real estate, co-op members only own stock that grants them the right to reside in a particular unit.
Not all co-ops are older buildings, although they tend to be. There are several reasons that an apartment building may want to convert to a co-op instead of a condo. On one end of the spectrum, sales prices tend to be lower so low-income residents of an apt. building may have an easier time buying in when the building converts. At the higher income end, a co-op board has the right to approve members (unlike a condo), so they can keep the building "exclusive." IMHO, there are more negatives to co-ops than positive. First, they're difficult to finance -- many banks won't lend to co-op members. Second, they're a bit harder to sell -- there are only a few title companies around that are experienced in co-op transfers. Third, boards have a lot more power than in a condo to regulate your use of the unit(some people find that to be a positive, though).
That's just my opinion. Other people really like co-ops, so I guess it depends on what you're looking for.
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I live in a co-op, and while they are generally disadvantageous as compared to condos, if you're a normal person leading a normal life you'll probably never notice it. If you want to rent the apartment out someday as an investment, you might run into problems. That, for the most part, is the only practical difference.
Personally, I like old buildings what with high ceilings, clunky radiators, and all, and so I consider it well worth it.
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Originally posted by 1702:
I've been a member of the forum since God-knows-when, but haven't had anything useful to contribute.
that hasnt stopped Markie or Rhett!
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I live in a co-op as well, but i rent my apt.
this is cool with me because generally living around people who live in the apartments is better because they are less tempted to trash thier own house! and you dont have new neighbors every 6 months.
however, something bad is that my landlord now owns 70% of the apts in the co-op, which means if anyone wants to sell thier place, they MUST offer it to him first, and he can buy it for wikked cheap.
so, look into WHO owns this co-op and if any are rentals or what. you dont want to buy a place you cant sell for a good price!
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yeah, i've read a lot of them have this "buyer must occupy for first 2 years".
i was contemplating a move to chicago at some point, possibly within 2 years.
is it possible to "rent under the table" without having the building board find out? do they do apt. raids in the middle of the night and take fingerprints of the occupants for confirmation?
again, thanks for the info everyone.
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There are fewer options when trying to getting a loan on a co-op. Sligthly higher interest rates on offer. And at least in Greenbelt the relationship between Real Estate Agents and Mortgage Co's is pretty incestious. Again in Greenbelt selling a Co-op is pretty easy process, units have been known to sell within a day or two. It's also easier to Sell by Owner in Greenbelt.
And welcome to 1702 :)
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
There are fewer options when trying to getting a loan on a co-op. Sligthly higher interest rates on offer. And at least in Greenbelt the relationship between Real Estate Agents and Mortgage Co's is pretty incestious. Again in Greenbelt selling a Co-op is pretty easy process, units have been known to sell within a day or two. It's also easier to Sell by Owner in Greenbelt.
And welcome to 1702 :)
yeah, but it's still Greenbelt.
(just kidding)
yes, welcome to 1702.
post more.
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i wanted a co-op but couldn't get one. basically, i like the more people-owned structure, as a philosophy, and i hate condo management associations.
condo boards can be just as evil as co-op boards, to that doesn't really set the two apart much. co-ops are just more community-oriented and attract people who care more about their building.
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Originally posted by SalParadise:
is it possible to "rent under the table" without having the building board find out? do they do apt. raids in the middle of the night and take fingerprints of the occupants for confirmation?
Depends on the building and -- even more so -- who's on the board. In my experience, the people who run for board positions in both condos and co-ops are usually the ones who really like to enforce the rules. Laissez-faire type people usually don't want the hassle. While they don't do bed checks, it's pretty easy to figure out who's living in a unit. That said, I'm sure that there are buildings where people are more lax than others.
EDIT -- Oh, and thanks for the welcome.
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hmmm wonder if kosmette and sonick were once neighbors, she rented in a co-op when we first started dating. she really like her place with the big ceiling, etc...
hey greenbelts great, close to the parkway, metro, lovely trees, a movie theatre you can walk to, the cicadas have left.
plus my neighbor makes do without a car and it's only a 30 minute drive to the 9:30 club a bit longer if you take the metro.
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
hey greenbelts great, close to the parkway, metro, lovely trees, a movie theatre you can walk to, the cicadas have left.
My only solo living experience was in old Greenbelt. I loved it. It's like a tiny oasis in PG county.
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Originally posted by chimbly sweep:
i wanted a co-op but couldn't get one. basically, i like the more people-owned structure, as a philosophy, and i hate condo management associations.
condo boards can be just as evil as co-op boards, to that doesn't really set the two apart much. co-ops are just more community-oriented and attract people who care more about their building.
I've never heard the horror stories from condo owners that I have from co-op owners. In some cities, the monthly fees also vary drastically (I don't know about DC, though). I'm looking now as well, and focusing on condos, though I'm also focusing on new construction (giving up rickety heaters for bamboo floors... ;) ), though I'm open if I can *ever* find the right place.
I disagree on co-ops being more community-oriented. Depends on where, what kind of building (ie, size). And what you get instead is a greater sense of entitlement by your neighbors over how you live your life, what you do with your home.
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if you are planning to rent, do not buy a co-op. You might get away with renting under the table, but many, many things could go wrong with this approach, all of which could get you seriously fucked over.
there's an assload of condos out there, if you see renting in your future, focus your energies on finding one of them.
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Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
if you are planning to rent, do not buy a co-op. You might get away with renting under the table, but many, many things could go wrong with this approach, all of which could get you seriously fucked over.
there's an assload of condos out there, if you see renting in your future, focus your energies on finding one of them.
i said that half-jokingly, but yeah, i figured as much. condos is probably the way to go for me.
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It's funny. Just yesterday people were giving me and a couple of other people shit for talking about real estate on here.
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Doom, do you know if there are differences in the monthly fees between condos and co-ops in D.C.?
For instance, in NYC, condos have far higher condo fees (hell, they look like DC rent figures). I'm not sure of the reasoning, but co-op fees are much lower (but in NYC, I believe co-ops can be more expensive to initially buy, which is one trade-off).
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer:
It's funny. Just yesterday people were giving me and a couple of other people shit for talking about real estate on here.
You may have misinterpreted -- I didn't give (or mean to give) anyone shit. I had started to comment on the DC market, and decided to stop. THAT's the discussion that drives me nuts, though it's a personal peeve. And it's just friggin' discussed every single day by everyone you meet. Oy vey. This discussion is pretty cool, as it doesn't happen every day. Go forth and ruminate on the DC housing boom/bust/bullshit. ;)
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Wasn't you I was referring to.
Some people are annoyed if Nine Inch Nails or U2 infiltrate a thread, others if soccer or real sports infiltrate a thread, still others if it's the housing market. It's all good, if it's not your bag, just surf on to something else.
Originally posted by Bags:
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer:
It's funny. Just yesterday people were giving me and a couple of other people shit for talking about real estate on here.
You may have misinterpreted -- I didn't give (or mean to give) anyone shit. I had started to comment on the DC market, and decided to stop. THAT's the discussion that drives me nuts, though it's a personal peeve. And it's just friggin' discussed every single day by everyone you meet. Oy vey. This discussion is pretty cool, as it doesn't happen every day. Go forth and ruminate on the DC housing boom/bust/bullshit. ;) [/b]
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Originally posted by Bags:
Doom, do you know if there are differences in the monthly fees between condos and co-ops in D.C.?
For instance, in NYC, condos have far higher condo fees (hell, they look like DC rent figures). I'm not sure of the reasoning, but co-op fees are much lower (but in NYC, I believe co-ops can be more expensive to initially buy, which is one trade-off).
Not Doom, but if I can help... The difference depends most of all on the amenities and capital needs of the building, more than just whether it's a condo or a co-op. All things being equal, a DC co-op fee should be higher but only because the co-op association pays real estate taxes, which would then be apportioned among the units. In a condo, you're responsible for paying the property tax yourself. Since condos are generally assessed at higher amounts than equivalent co-op units, you'll actually wind up paying more with a condo -- just that the big tax hit will come twice a year instead of monthly (unless your lender escrows tax payments).
Oh, and as far as co-ops being more community minded, it depends. You have River Park in SW, which was founded by a bunch of ol' lefties and the spirit continues today. On the other hand, look at 2101 Conn., which is as snotty as it gets. Both are co-ops.
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My co-op fee doubled this year...but only because the real estate tax doubled this year for our building. Most condos don't include this tax in the fee...so co-op fees can sometimes be more expensive (although at the end of the year you get a statement from your co-op telling you how much real estate tax you paid so you can deduct it from your taxes).
Funny that there are so many board members (including myself) that live in co-ops...I didn't know there were so many around this area (mine's in arlington).
Originally posted by 1702:
Originally posted by Bags:
Doom, do you know if there are differences in the monthly fees between condos and co-ops in D.C.?
For instance, in NYC, condos have far higher condo fees (hell, they look like DC rent figures). I'm not sure of the reasoning, but co-op fees are much lower (but in NYC, I believe co-ops can be more expensive to initially buy, which is one trade-off).
Not Doom, but if I can help... The difference depends most of all on the amenities and capital needs of the building, more than just whether it's a condo or a co-op. All things being equal, a DC co-op fee should be higher but only because the co-op association pays real estate taxes, which would then be apportioned among the units. In a condo, you're responsible for paying the property tax yourself. Since condos are generally assessed at higher amounts than equivalent co-op units, you'll actually wind up paying more with a condo -- just that the big tax hit will come twice a year instead of monthly (unless your lender escrows tax payments).
Oh, and as far as co-ops being more community minded, it depends. You have River Park in SW, which was founded by a bunch of ol' lefties and the spirit continues today. On the other hand, look at 2101 Conn., which is as snotty as it gets. Both are co-ops. [/b]