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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: Sir HC on October 30, 2006, 04:19:00 pm
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I have no opinion on either side but CNN this morning had interviews with a bunch of deaf people and for every woman the interpreter was male and visa versa. Was quite odd.
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They hosted a Vanilla Ice concert like 2-3 years back. I never understood that.
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Originally posted by Julian, faux celeb-porn CONNOISSEUR:
They hosted a Vanilla Ice concert like 2-3 years back. I never understood that.
They didn't want to suffer.
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I'm a Gallaudet student, female interpreters just happen to be more common then male.
As for Vanilla Ice, every other year we have Rockfest which is basically a weekend of competition followed by a giant concert. That year the person in charge of bands happened to get Vanilla Ice.
RF has been a Gallaudet tradition for over 30 years.
And if you 'dont get it' because it's a Deaf school, well not everyone there is stone Deaf. There are different levels of Deafness not to mention plenty of hearing students on the campus.
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I think it's awful that the board of trustees caved like that. Now, whenever some students on a campus are unhappy about something, they will try to take it over and cause turmoil.
University campuses are going to become chaotic.
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If the BoT followed proper proceedure in the first place this wouldn't have happened.
JKF has been provost at Gallaudet for 6 years. In those 6 years she accomplished nothing. When the protest began in May, she had ample opportunity to reach out to the student body and prove to us that she could lead the school. Instead she chose to ignore the issues and pretend that nothing was wrong.
She does not have the qualifications or the leadership to lead Gallaudet.
(Oh, and it's not like this is the first time ANY university has protested the appointment of a president, or even won after protesting/voicing their concerns. Gallaudet was not the first to do this, and we won't be the last.)
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I think these student protesters are ridiculous. Just because the provost did not grow up using the ASL does not make her an unworthy candidate.
The university was originally founded as the "Columbia Institution for the Instruction of the Deaf and Dumb and the Blind."
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Nobody cares that she learned ASL at 23. Our current president wasn't born Deaf and he didn't learn ASL to the same age.
Fluency in ASL/"not being Deaf enough" is not and was NEVER the issue.
The issue is leadership, qualifications, and the search process being flawed. Which it was. There were several candidates more qualified than JKF. She didn't earn the Presidency, just like she didn't earn the provost job.
You really need to know more about Gallaudet and what goes on here before automatically assuming things.
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Oh, and it wasn't just students protesting. It was faculty, staff, alumnae. People who have worked at Gallaudet for decades, alumnae who have been involved with Gallaudet for years.
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I only mentioned what I read in the news... :roll: ...and from the several I read, nothing was said about qualifications or leadership.
Originally posted by missnatasha:
Nobody cares that she learned ASL at 23. Our current president wasn't born Deaf and he didn't learn ASL to the same age.
Fluency in ASL/"not being Deaf enough" is not and was NEVER the issue.
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According to The Washington Post, "Students objected to the appointment of Fernandes, who is deaf and is currently the university's provost, because she did not grow up using American Sign Language. Some students also criticized Fernandes for not having warm relations with students." Deaf Professional Network also stated that, before the appointment was announced, some students "objected strenuously to the fact that one of three finalists, Dr. Jane Fernandes, does not have a fluent grasp of American Sign Language. Those students felt that disrupting the process would be a futile battle and wanted to focus on endorsing a candidate who exhibits commitment to and fluency in ASL." Dr. Jordan publicly accused some critics of rejecting Dr. Fernandes because "she is not deaf enough". He described the protest as "identity politics," saying, "We are squabbling about what it means to be deaf." The Washington Post reports that Fernandes "would like to see the institution become more inclusive of people who might not have grown up using sign language," stating that Gallaudet must embrace "all kinds of deaf people". On the other hand, the opponents of her position "fear a weakening of American Sign Language at an institution that should be its standard-bearer."
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Understood. But if you checkout sites like www.deafdc.com, (http://www.deafdc.com,) deafread.com, elisawrites.com you'll get the other side.
The only person who ever said JKF wasn't Deaf enough was JKF. During the first protest she used her poor ASL skills as an excuse for why she doesn't socialize with the community here on campus, our students, faculty--anyone she's not 'required' to talk to. When in reality, the best way to improve your skill in anything is to be consistant and practice.
The news keep using that phrase "not Deaf enough" because thats what the school's PR tells them, in order to gain outside support by how 'unfair' the protestors are being.
If the issue simply was that she is not Deaf enough, I wouldn't support the protest. Granted I'm not thrilled that my education was interrupted, but understanding 'why' is key to moving on.
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I've seen the papers, I'm at Gallaudet, the protest has been a big topic of discussion in our classes. We know what the Administration says, and bottom line they are using the ASL/not Deaf enough card to try to end the dispute.
The search process is viewed as flawed. Out of the 6 candidates, 3 moved on to the "final" round. JK, Weiner, and another man who did not meet the criteria for even being considered because he did not have a Ph.D or anything published.
A former BoT chairman left his position so he could apply, he has Ph.D, he has an education background, he has works published. He is also African-American.
Aside from them former GU provost, Roz Rosen, he was most qualified. Neither of them made it to the final round.
The issue around the protest is not cut and dry.
JK had all month to reach out to us, to try and build a rapport with the students, alum, & fac to try and solve this together. She chose not to. Taking over HMB, locking down the school, perfect opportunities for JK to show leadership skills and resolve what was happening. She chose to hide.
It's just not as simple as the media makes it seem.
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All I was saying is that it was perfectly *out* of sync. I would think since it was taped they could have even had someone else read the transcript. They had a man and a woman translating, just not for people of their own sex.
And didn't Galluadet do something at the 9:30 (private party) in the past? I remember something about that.
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This is such a random topic to see on a club's forum lol
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This wierdness is very specific to Gallaudet; something to do with the students getting off on asserting themselves. In my college experiences I never knew anyone who cared much who the pres was. From the protests you'd think the candidate was a murderer! But instead there was no consistent and coherent explanation for why they didn't want her, as the Post was correct to report. Every kid I saw interviewed on TV news gave a different reason for why she was unacceptable.
Hey Gallaudet kids: ever read about 'global warming' or 'the war in Iraq'?
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Sir HC, when the media's been interviewing people generally an interpreter is standing out of shot of the camera, not taped over. But I know what you mean :-)
As for a party, I wouldn't be surprised. We've done stuff all over the city lol
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Originally posted by CookieMonster:
University campuses are going to become chaotic.
Like Kent State in the late 60's early 70's chaotic?
At least somebody cares in this country.
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Mixed Veg --- You won't get only one common answer for why the protest occurred. You'll get several, because the issue is not cut and dry. There are several reasons for why JK is not fit to have led Gallaudet. The people being interviewed are going to express the ones that they feel the most strongly about.
And actually a lot of Universities have protested the appointment of presidents. I believe it was AU that protested against a priest being appointed president.
And yes, I have heard of the Iraqi war and global warming, thanks for your concern :-)
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My question is if you're Deaf, what are you doing on a music club's messageboard in the first place?
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Again, it's not just students who were protesting. It was Gallaudet University Faculty, staff, alumnae. This protest was also supported by GMU, UMD, GT and other Universities in the area, believing in what we were doing.
The faculty voted no-confidence in JK twice, and twice demaned her resignation.
You can't lead if there is no one following.
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You don't have to be hearing to enjoy music. Vibrations are a wonderful thing. Also I am Hard of Hearing, so I can still hear and understand music for the most part.
I'm going to the AFI show tomorrow and was trying to find dress-code info, when I found this post.
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Originally posted by missnatasha:
Vibrations are a wonderful thing.
I'm not sure truer words have ever been said on this forum.
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Originally posted by missnatasha:
He is also African-American.
Is that a qualification?
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by missnatasha:
He is also African-American.
Is that a qualification? [/b]
Not a qualification but adds to the argument the intial search process and selection was flawed and discriminatory--as many people here believe.
The argument basically is "why is a white man with a masters a more qualified candidate than a black man with a ph.d??"
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Originally posted by missnatasha:
And yes, I have heard of the Iraqi war and global warming, thanks for your concern :-)
Have you heard that 'Gorbal warming' is merely a fanciful theory...like the theory that UFOs are time machines?
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Originally posted by Surly Bonds:
Originally posted by missnatasha:
And yes, I have heard of the Iraqi war and global warming, thanks for your concern :-)
Have you heard that 'Gorbal warming' is merely a fanciful theory...like the theory that UFOs are time machines? [/b]
That must explain why its hotter than hell outside and last week it was freezing cold.
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Solely based on that argument, the masters candidate may have had more experience in the work environment while the ph.d candidate was stuck in the university.
Originally posted by missnatasha:
The argument basically is "why is a white man with a masters a more qualified candidate than a black man with a ph.d??"
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Ok, MissNatasha, I'm putting you on the seat of heat. Right here, right now, on the record: are you Deaf enough to be President of Gallaudet University? Yes or no?
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Originally posted by econo:
Solely based on that argument, the masters candidate may have had more experience in the work environment while the ph.d candidate was stuck in the university.
Originally posted by missnatasha:
The argument basically is "why is a white man with a masters a more qualified candidate than a black man with a ph.d??"
[/b]
Except that the criteria the search committee agreed on required that eligible candidates needed a ph.d and published works. The masters candidate had neither.
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Originally posted by missnatasha:
Originally posted by econo:
Solely based on that argument, the masters candidate may have had more experience in the work environment while the ph.d candidate was stuck in the university.
Originally posted by missnatasha:
The argument basically is "why is a white man with a masters a more qualified candidate than a black man with a ph.d??"
[/b]
Except that the criteria the search committee agreed on required that eligible candidates needed a ph.d and published works. The masters candidate had neither. [/b]
LOL
I'm 23, why would I want to be president?
The issue really isn't about JK being Deaf enough. Our current president wasn't born Deaf, his ASL sucks, and people still love him.
But as for your question. If I had the education background and was old enough, I'd say i don't know. What is "Deaf enough"??
I'm fluent in ASL and English, I come from a culturally Deaf family who are also Deaf educators. But does that make me Deaf enough?
'Deaf enough' is a matter of perception. It's a bad argument to use as reasoning why JK is not good enough. Maybe there are a few people out there who believe that reason, but it is not why the protest started.
People who focus on JK not being Deaf enough completely miss the point.
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Originally posted by missnatasha:
Originally posted by Surly Bonds:
Originally posted by missnatasha:
And yes, I have heard of the Iraqi war and global warming, thanks for your concern :-)
Have you heard that 'Gorbal warming' is merely a fanciful theory...like the theory that UFOs are time machines? [/b]
That must explain why its hotter than hell outside and last week it was freezing cold. [/b]
What? So you expect it to be 72 F 24 hours a day, 365 days a year???
FYI: Weather is variable and always has been. I guess this never occured to you..?!?
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Have you ever considered a cochlear implant?
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Have you ever considered a cochlear implant?
Nah, with my hearing aides I hear pretty well so I don't see the need for a CI.
Now if I were to wake up stone Deaf one morning, then I definitely would. (I know like a dozen people thats happened to)
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Originally posted by Surly Bonds:
Have you heard that 'Gorbal warming' is merely a fanciful theory...like the theory that UFOs are time machines?
are you a member yet? (http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm)
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Forget Galludet, John Shopkins (http://www.nbc4.com/news/10199165/detail.html) is the real story today!
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Originally posted by pdx pollard:
Originally posted by Surly Bonds:
Have you heard that 'Gorbal warming' is merely a fanciful theory...like the theory that UFOs are time machines?
are you a member yet? (http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm) [/b]
I should ax you the same thing for your herd mentality.
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Originally posted by Surly Bonds:
I should ax you the same thing for your herd mentality.
how can you possibly be so sure its not a possibility, you can see it with some skepticism sure but to compare it to the theory that ufos are time machines is ludicrous
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sure took a hell of alot of protesting. good for you
Originally posted by vansmack:
At least somebody cares in this country.
amen
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Wait a second --- UFO's aren't really time machines?!?!
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I tried to understand the motives behind the protest, but the reasons just seemed kinda bogus to me. "She's cold and distant." Or, "she doesn't have good management skills." Or, "the board was not inclusive enough in its search." None of these seem like reasons to camp out for weeks.
To me, it seems like there were two more likely reasons:
* protesting just for the sake of protesting, which college students have been known to do;
* objection to the fact that she wasn't raised with ASL but learned it as an adult instead. To me, this smacks of extreme elitism and predjudice.
In my opinion, the motives were probably a combination of those two things.
It would have been very interesting to see a poll of the full student body and faculty, to see how representative these very vocal protesters were.
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Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
I tried to understand the motives behind the protest, but the reasons just seemed kinda bogus to me. "She's cold and distant." Or, "she doesn't have good management skills." Or, "the board was not inclusive enough in its search."
first "reason": yeah, weak, get over it.
second: completely valid objection. she was hired to manage the school.
third: implication is preferencial treatment, insider job, etc... again, valid in my books (if in fact true, of course)
It would have been very interesting to see a poll of the full student body and faculty, to see how representative these very vocal protesters were.
would only reveal the same as at any other protest. were all protesters at the battle in seattle (or quebec city, etc) the violent anarchists we saw on TV? or even representative of the population of those cities, or the country?
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
were all protesters at the battle in seattle (or quebec city, etc) the violent anarchists we saw on TV? or even representative of the population of those cities, or the country?
yes, no and no.
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Originally posted by pdx pollard:
how can you possibly be so sure its not a possibility, you can see it with some skepticism sure but to compare it to the theory that ufos are time machines is ludicrous
If it is heating up a bit it's due more to solar flare activity than to Al Gore.
Increased solar radiation could be a good thing for Canadian farmers, btw.
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I honestly don't think they laid down the law and made it clear they weren't going to change their decision.
To me this was just news for the sake of it being news. Let the lady do her job and if she messes up then there is a reason.
They kept saying she is part deaf which is not a reason to fire. You cannot fire based on bias. I wonder if they will cave in for everything. Sometimes you have to lay down the law.
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
I tried to understand the motives behind the protest, but the reasons just seemed kinda bogus to me. "She's cold and distant." Or, "she doesn't have good management skills." Or, "the board was not inclusive enough in its search."
first "reason": yeah, weak, get over it.
second: completely valid objection. she was hired to manage the school.
third: implication is preferencial treatment, insider job, etc... again, valid in my books (if in fact true, of course)
It would have been very interesting to see a poll of the full student body and faculty, to see how representative these very vocal protesters were.
would only reveal the same as at any other protest. were all protesters at the battle in seattle (or quebec city, etc) the violent anarchists we saw on TV? or even representative of the population of those cities, or the country? [/b]
Actually several polls were done last year prior to announcing JK as president-elect. Polls were given to the undergraduate, graduate and faculty and all of the rolls had an overwhelming percentage of "no" to JK as president.
The issue never was and still is not whether or not Jane is Deaf enough. Like I said before, our current president was not born Deaf. He didn't learn ASL until he was 23, and what 40+ years later his ASL is not any better than Jane's..but the community still loves him. So focusing on the "Deaf enough" issue really is not fair.
Believe me, no one was protesting for the sake of protesting. This interrupted our education and our lives, no one wanted it come come to that. But (pardon the pun) when people turn a Deaf ear, things have to be done to ensure you're heard.
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If you are really interested in the reasons behind the protest, the thoughts and feelings of other students, faculty, and alum check out
www.ridorlive.com (http://www.ridorlive.com)
www.elisawrites.com (http://www.elisawrites.com)
www.deafdc.com (http://www.deafdc.com)
www.deafread.com (http://www.deafread.com)
I understand that from the outside looking in, it's hard to understand whats going on at Gallaudet and why...but a protest, especially one as long as this one was--was not something anyone wanted. No one wanted to interrupt our education, close our school down, or have students starve themselves, get run over, or thrown in jail--but it happened, and it happened because Gallaudet is a basically the center of the Deaf community--it is a very loved and cherished place and everyone just wants whats best for the school and its future.
The fact that hundreds of current students were willing and preparing to withdraw from Gally, potential students were turning down admissions, and Deaf people all over the world were supporting this cause, shows that the issue is not merely about being 'Deaf enough'. And the protests were not just a temper tantrum---we've got better things to do than that :-)
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Hey missnatasha...thanks for providing some much needed info. I, too, was having trouble understanding what the hubbub was all about. The media (print and TV) did a terrible job reporting this story. I did hear or read somewhere about how Fernandez got the job (flawed search) and how the majority of faculty voted against her, but it seemed that what was broadcast most often was basically pictures and blurbs of students that closed a campus. No further explanation. Perhaps, the faculty and/or board along with the student reps. will make an effort to bring to light the multiple reasons behind the protest, the no confidence votes, and the final ouster...That would do a lot to help remove the image that the students wanted her out because she wasn't "deaf enough".