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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: Seth Hurwitz on November 02, 2006, 10:36:00 am
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whaddyathink?
and would you actually not go to one vs the other?
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If by stadium you mean RFK, then yes I'd go. :)
If held in DC, you'll get more people from Virginia showing up and the Baltimore people would still come down. If held in Baltimore, you'll probably get more people from PA (Pitt and Philly) than Va. I do think it's somewhat of a double-edge sword.
DC is central, has metro and light-rail access as well as Nat'l airport :)
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com)
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Which stadium? I'd probably choose Pimlico, though. and it would make a difference. The main reasons I went this year were 1) location and 2) I had never seen the Who. I especially liked how the second stage worked out at Pimilico. I don't know that I'd bother if it were at a stadium, even if it remained in Baltimore. In the end it would probably depend on what kind of lineup you put together.
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I will definitely vote Pimlico. Even if you mean M&T Bank Stadium in Baltimore. (which is 5 blocks from my house!)
Stadiums are so restrictive and they loom so large on an otherwise free spirited day.
I go to festivals as much as i can because of the venues they are in..parks, deserts, fields, not stadiums and ampitheatres.
If Pimlico doenst work out, maybe something like it....but NOT RFK. Unlesss you get Radiohead or Pink Floyd or something, i wont be attending any more concerts at RFK.
dont make VirginFest into HFStival part II!!!!
:)
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wow, toughie...
pimlico: lots of open space = easier to have stands, info booths, different food vendors, etc. flat = hard to see the stage.
stadium: better for viewing of the main stage, even some raised seating. walking from main stage (inside) to second stage (outside) isn't a problem, but creates a mental separation - maybe that's a good thing. better infrastructure for such large events - public transpo, parking, flush toilets.
all and all, i'm leaning towards stadium. slightly. above it, it's about the bands. for the right line-up i'd go to kazakhstan.
an ideal outdoor spot would be something naturally shaped like a bowl, so as you go back from the stage the ground rises up.
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Park. Is there a park like Grant Park or Zilker Park in the DC area? :)
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I agree with le sonick 100%.
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a way that Lollapalooza got rid of the flat park = hard to see the stage problem is that their stages were VERY high up from the ground.
the may have been 10-15 feet up!! a little annoying when you were all the way up front, but my 5'7" girlfriend didnt miss a beat with the extra height!!!
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Multiple days at Merriweather.
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Originally posted by Bombay Chutney:
Multiple days at Merriweather.
I like this idea the best.
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How about Bull Run? Just kidding.
I personally vote RFK, but that's also because it's walking distance from my house.
Hey Seth, the next time you do one of these Virgin Fest thingies, have you thought about narrowing it down to a Coachella East kind of thing? I know you need the draw of big bands and names, but I'm sure that you could pull it off. In my mind, this is the kind of lineup I would imagine (and by next year, a lot of these bands would be supporting new records or about to support them):
Radiohead, Bjork, the newly-reformed Smashing Pumpkins, Blur, The Stooges (who have yet to play DC), the Shins, Queens of the Stone Age, Interpol, and then you can round it out with any other bands that are name-drawers at that particular moment. I know you have to think about commercial appeal...but Radiohead is a huge name and that would do it.
Of course the dance element will be good too: DJ Shadow, Daft Punk, Aphex Twin, Squarepusher...whatever. But if you narrow it down to a certain niche, you'll give Coachella a run for the money and you'll certainly get people traveling from all over the place for it. I can't imagine Branson wouldn't want to put the Virgin name on something like that.
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me third on multiple days at merriweather...
i like the idea of pimlico if the festival were smaller with two mid size stages with 9:30 or slightly high level acts on both. just not a fan of having to deal with a huge of mass of people crowded around a main stage.
would have preferred a stadium over pimilico this time in order to get a decent vantage point to see the Who. any stadium setup would have to an easily accessible second stage.
for the few stadium or arena acts i'm more inclinded to want to see them on their own instead of at a festival. but a festival where i can get to sample some tasty less popular bands is my kind of festival
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A downtown park would be ideal, but we don't live in Chicago or NYC.
I would go to RFK before Pimlico, but I would go to Pimlico before I would go to M&T.
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Pimlico or Merriweather.
I'm not much for stadium shows of any kind.
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Pimlico. Logistics weren't bad this year for me and I like the extra space. Never been to a concert at RFK but I can't see how it would be better.
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i'd go anywhere for the right lineup ... i didn't go to the festival this year because of its location, i didn't go because i had no real interest in paying $100 to see a few of the mid-day and second stage groups ... i can't really justify going to a festival if i don't want to see the headliners and the ticket is heavily weighted to pay them
and i wholeheartedly agree with bearman's suggestion ... if you give the festival some unique identity by focusing the lineup, you'll get a national turnout ... i know the dc/baltimore area isn't as receptive to the acts that play at coachella, but you'll get a huge draw from the northeast if you put together a lineup on that level
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I would go to RFK before Pimlico. I'd only go to Pimlico if I could get a hotel near there at a decent rate (think package deal!). Multiple days at Merriweather would be ideal but I'm not sure how you'd do a second stage there.
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Originally posted by xcanuck:
I would go to RFK before Pimlico. I'd only go to Pimlico if I could get a hotel near there at a decent rate (think package deal!). Multiple days at Merriweather would be ideal but I'm not sure how you'd do a second stage there.
i didn't go to the curiosa festival (the cure, interpol, mogwai, etc) but i'm pretty sure they had 2 stages at merriweather ... anyone know how they pulled it off?
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I liked the setup at Pimlico, but it's not as easy to get to/from and parking was a nightmare. Merriweather is not a bad idea and if you decide to do a stadium, consider taking a page from the Vegoose festivals in Las Vegas. Even though stadiums are not the best locations for festivals (as others here have pointed out), it can work.
One more gripe...with the right line-up you can draw from just about anywhere in the country. BUT it HAS to be promoted much better than this year's festival was. I live in Baltimore and RARELY saw/heard ads for the festival anywhere. I knew about it mainly because I pay close attention to the music scene around here. I had friends come down from New York who told me that they never saw a single ad for this year's festival and that if I had not told them about it, they never would have known that it was happening.
I know there was some limited national exposure from several magazines, but you really could have drawn a lot better if you had constantly peppered the east coast markets in the months leading up to the show.
Other than that, you did a great job. I appreciate the effort you put in to make it happen and I look forward to next year.
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa08:
i didn't go to the curiosa festival the cure, interpol, mogwai, etc but i'm pretty sure they had 2 stages at merriweather ... anyone know how they pulled it off?
Curiosa worked fine for the ~20,000 who attended, but I think that the Virgin Fest would be geared to a larger scale.
Pimlico sounded like it was a parking and transportation nightmare. RFK has great access (Metro, 295 from the north, 395 from the south) and acres of parking. The Tibetan Freedom Festival setup was pretty good. They had two main-stages next to each other on the field. You can put smaller stages and a DJ tent right outside. The sound may not be ideal, but no big open area is great for sound. You would probably be married to the stadium concessions as well, but I still think RFK is the best option for a large venue.
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I agree with other posters that lineup is most important. As to venue, I thought Pimlico was fine but would have no problem with Merriweather or M&T. Just make sure you bring it back somewhere!
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I don't think Merriweather would have the capacity for such a large festival, especially if attendance numbers increased.
I thought Pimlico worked out well and was beneficial to Baltimore in general. I would vote keep it there. M&T would be my first choice if it had to be moved to a stadium, but I liked the set up of Pimlico better then anything M&T could possibly offer.
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Seth - nice work taking it to the people!
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It's got to be Pimlico.
At Pimlico you get an atmosphere like NO Jazzfest, Lollapalooza in Chicago, ACL Fest, etc.
At RFK, it's another HFStival.
Seriosusly, the perfect set timing and flow bewteen stages was what made that day so great.
You need Pimlico to make that happen.
Plus, I thought Pimlico was a really solid venue...it will only be better with a year under it's belt.
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Pimlico is a pain to get in and out of. I vote for a stadium, since they are easier to get in and out of with mass transit (RFK with Metro and M&T with light rail) and they are off major highways. The deciding factor for me to go has very little to do with location, it has to do with who is playing.
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Stadium > Pimlico > Merriweather
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merriweather does have additional places to hold second stages, like they did at Warped tour and HFStival this year. the problem is the pavilion.
not so hot for festivals where lots of people like to move more freely. i know the elderly and less adventurous will disagree but thats my take
the problem with the Tibetan setup is that both main stages were next to each other, causing MUCH less movement in the crowd. meaning if you werent up front at 1pm, you werent getting up front at all! unless you wanted to fight.
that was sorta true with Vfest this year at the main stage. and was the definite single best part of festivals like Coachella and esp Lollapalooza where if you dont mind waiting for 30minutes or so, you can get right up close and personal with any band there, save the headliners which involved more planning.
Pimlico is ideal, but perhaps weighting the stages more equally would have allowed for more movement and less people just getting there at noon and parking in front of the main stage(which i gather at least 1/3 of the people there did!)
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa08:
Originally posted by xcanuck:
I would go to RFK before Pimlico. I'd only go to Pimlico if I could get a hotel near there at a decent rate (think package deal!). Multiple days at Merriweather would be ideal but I'm not sure how you'd do a second stage there.
i didn't go to the curiosa festival (the cure, interpol, mogwai, etc) but i'm pretty sure they had 2 stages at merriweather ... anyone know how they pulled it off? [/b]
Curiosa worked cos bands on the 2nd stage would go on while they switched set-up for the mainstage..so there was never a point were 2 bands were competing on two different stages at the same time..
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pimlico or rfk, but GOD PLEASE NO MPP. i hated the hfstival there. it was too small and just not festival-like. unless the lineup is amazing, i dont think i would go if it is at mpp. rfk, pimlico, m&t, fedex, mpp. thats my top 5. thanks for asking seth! will hfstival be at mpp again?
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I vote for Pimlico. The openness definitely gave it a good festival vibe and it was easy to get from place to place. Also, working with a company to offer bus deals would be a good idea.
Two days anywhere, Merriweather or otherwise, would be a horrible idea. Getting anywhere around here is too much hassle and having to do it for two days to see the bands you want would make it hellish to decide which day to see.
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My next vote goes to Ft Reno. :)
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com)
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Merriweather gets a BIG thumbs down from me. I'd take RFK stadium over Pimlico and yes, location for me is an important factor in whether I go or not. Atmosphere is nice but at the end of the day, seats and metro accessibility is even nicer. And it's not going to be another HFStival.....that is unless Seth has secret plans to throw Korn, My Chemical Romance, and Green Day on the bill. ;) But I'm just glad to see that there's plans to do another one! Thanks Seth!
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my question.
are the Nationals still playing at RFK next year?
that would rule out RFK right?
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I vote for RFK mainly because of the public transportation benefits. In addition to avoiding the parking lot traffic mess, it's a nice environmental step forward.
And one day only.
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I'd take somewhere with real bathrooms over porta-potties any day. That would be my #1 deal-breaker. Anytime you go to a big outdoor venue for a weekend-long event you get to stand in mud, have a panoramic view (translated: far away from the stage), and pay too much for beer. That's gonna happen anywhere. Having to wee in the dark, stinky pee-closet is enough to keep me home.
I do have to give major kudos to the Voodoo Music Fest in New Orleans; I went over the weekend and even though I had to deal with the nasty porta-potties, the venue (City Park) was awesome, 4 stages perfectly laid out, good flow of foot traffic, and most pleasantly, reasonably priced food and drink.
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I go to Pimlico for the ease of getting to/from.
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Pimlico
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Originally posted by le sonick:
my question.
are the Nationals still playing at RFK next year?
that would rule out RFK right?
Not only the Nationals, but DC United soccer as well.
I seriously doubt RFK would be doable.
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Originally posted by aces:
Not only the Nationals, but DC United soccer as well.
I seriously doubt RFK would be doable.
let's leave logistics to those in the know... i'm willing to bet there is a weekend when both the nats and united are out of town.
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I agree w/ ggw - RFK before Pimlico over M&T.
And, agree w/ Hoya - all about line-up. Baltimore isn't so far for me when I really wanna see someone, and like vansmack - just gotta find the right hotel, and perhaps drive a little if necessary.
Not really feeling the 3-day event at Merriweather. Unless, the line-up was stellar enough to keep me out there for a weekend. Perhaps, build to this?
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RFK for convenience.
Pimlico for atmosphere.
But like everyone says, it comes down to lineup. I didn't go this for that reason, but would gladly trek out to Baltimore for a great show, I already go up to Sonar all the time.
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I think RFK would be rad. HFStivals are dead and a thing of the past. There is something rad with hearing music loudly in a stadium. Merriweather would be pointless. I hate the whole "lets make this multiple days" because then it's just a bunch of concerts with some good line ups. I'd rather go to something in one day that is utterly huge and mindblowing.
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The funny thing I find people bashing HFStival is that who do you think handled booking the bands for it? I think it was IMP no?
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com)
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Originally posted by MindCage:
The funny thing I find people bashing HFStival is that who do you think handled booking the bands for it? I think it was IMP no?
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com)
IMP did the booking for HFStival?
either way, HFStival was a much younger type crowd than Vfest, and others like it (coachella, bonnaroo)
radio shows have bands that everyoe already knows, fests like coachella, acl, lolla also include new bands to check out that you may not have heard.
i think thats the difference.
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nissan would be great. esp. on a friday night.
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Pimlico or MPP.
I refuse to go to anything (short of sports events) in a stadium. Any stadium.
Again, it all depends on the line-up. If it's an HFS kind of line-up, no way on earth!!! Go with the Coachella fare like Massive Attack, Portishead, The Stooges, etc.. Or a line-up akin to what was at Curiosa, with or without The Cure. It doesn't have to be those bands per se but please get some with more Indie appeal and sophistication as oppossed to 14 year old radio boys' wanksters.
If it's Pimlico, I would suggest more organization with On Tap and anyone else with busses for the out of towners. Maybe even something with Amtrack and the MTA. It's an easy light rail ride down for me, unlike my usual trek to and from DC, but I fully realize you have some obstacles to work around regarding Pimilico.
Btw, I noticed that the North Ave. Motel (or whatever they are calling themselves now) was on your hotel list for 2006. Might I suggest that you not include them again since they are scarier than your standard New York Ave., NE motel. It's full of hookers and drug dealers and the neighborhood is very sketchy. Instead, you may want to include some of the Towson & Timonium area hotels along with your downtown suggestions. In fact, for those hoteling it, maybe even work out some kind of hotel/festival transporation package. Being a former travel agent, I know that some are more than willing to accomadate if they can fill up some rooms and the price is right.
Also agree that the promotions should be on a broader scale. I can see why this year you might have wanted to keep it closer to home with feeling out a whole new venture. Place some ads in several of the music rags including some of the online sites.
On a personal note, I'm hoping that it is not going to be held on the same weekend in 2007 since there is another music festival already that a lot of us are already committed to on that weekend. Do you have a date in mind yet just so we can pencil it in awhile?
Thanks for asking for our input. Wish our politicians would do the same.
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RFK please!
When you are ready for band suggestions please let us know... :)
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1. rfk
2. pimlico
3. merriweather
HELL NO to Fedex Field. That place would skyrocket ticket prices. Ditto for the stadium in Baltimore.
it really sucks we don't have an open area like grant park in chicago, for things like this.
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Originally posted by lily1:
1. rfk
2. pimlico
3. merriweather
HELL NO to Fedex Field. That place would skyrocket ticket prices. Ditto for the stadium in Baltimore.
it really sucks we don't have an open area like grant park in chicago, for things like this.
I really hope FedEx is not an option. I don't think Daniel Snyder needs anymore money after robbing ticket goers for the Redskins games with crazy parking prices and ticket prices. I'd rather go to M&T in Baltimore than FedEx if I'd have to drive to a stadium :)
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com)
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With the right lineup, I'd go just about anywhere. BUT - there needs to be at least one act that's either HUGE, or never ever tours to get me to a big festival like this. 20+ bands that I can already see once a year in a tiny club isn't going to do it. It may be a good lineup and a reasonable price for so many bands, but I'm not willing to put up with the other hassles for that.
You almost had me with The Who. Had I not seen them before, I probably would have gone. A Van Halen reunion would have had me there for sure. :)
Back to the original question, I'd vote for RFK just because of the Metro. It makes things a billion times easier. I wouldn't go to FedEx if it was free.
I was half-kidding when I suggested Merriweather. Curiosa was perfectly setup though.
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I would vote for RFK. The element of the Metro makes it SUPER conveinent. And as a sidenote (forgive me if I sound bitter), how about making sure the whole VIP ticket setup is in order???? I got fucked, with no vaseline, out of close to $550 for a pair of VIPs, not to mention an extra $200 for the 3rd VIP ticket I had to get off eBay because they were only sold in pairs. The only thing I had VIP access to were crabcakes.
With that being said, in spite of my raping, the lineup was solid & I really dug the Raconteurs, and The Who was . . . WOW! Please make sure the VIP section is up to snuff next year (If there is one) & I'm back for sure . . .
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Why did they cease doing shows at Lake Fairfax? As an out of stater, it was nice having a campground within walking distance from the 1st Lollapallooza. Anybody know why they don't use that place for shows anymore? I don't remember the sound being any worse there than other outdoor fests.
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Camping area and the whole weekend (friday and saturday) are my idea of a festival.
The Gorge (in washington state) is in the middle of nowhere, 3 hours from both big cities in Washington, and they have the sasquach festival every year, and the camping is half of the fun.
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Originally posted by SPARX:
Why did they cease doing shows at Lake Fairfax? As an out of stater, it was nice having a campground within walking distance from the 1st Lollapallooza. Anybody know why they don't use that place for shows anymore? I don't remember the sound being any worse there than other outdoor fests.
Fairfax County has a "no fun" clause in their charter.
That, and it is a little on the small side.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by SPARX:
Why did they cease doing shows at Lake Fairfax? As an out of stater, it was nice having a campground within walking distance from the 1st Lollapallooza. Anybody know why they don't use that place for shows anymore? I don't remember the sound being any worse there than other outdoor fests.
Fairfax County has a "no fun" clause in their charter.
That, and it is a little on the small side. [/b]
Nobody mentioned it to us. We had a blast and nobody hassled us and there were a shitload of people there for the show. If I remember correctly, they also had HFStival there back in the day.
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They had the first Lallapalooza there and it was a traffic nightmare. Probably the worst ever to hit Funfax. :)
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com)
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Think big...The mall
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Originally posted by MindCage:
They had the first Lallapalooza there and it was a traffic nightmare. Probably the worst ever to hit Funfax. :)
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com)
(sigh) Figures. It sure was a breeze just walking back to camp though.
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I agree that a true festival atmosphere can't be done in a stadium. A nice space to make it a Coachella East or Glastonbury West would be ideal, but there isn't anywhere in the area that doesn't have glaring access and/or karma (bull run) problems.
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Originally posted by Mobius:
I agree that a true festival atmosphere can't be done in a stadium. A nice space to make it a Coachella East or Glastonbury West would be ideal, but there isn't anywhere in the area that doesn't have glaring access and/or karma (bull run) problems.
So true. And, apparently, the British and those on the West Coast aren't such a bunch of whining wankers who expect it all right outside their own front doors. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't think that Coachella or Glastonbury; nor most other well known festivals; have easy Metro access either. CMJ and other club hopping festivals don't count since they are of a different nature.
*Notice that I said most so don't bother noting those oddball exceptions. :roll:
As someone else above mentioned (Bombay Chutney, maybe), if you put in a good enough line-up and make it reasonably priced, most of us would bite the bullet and go wherever you find it best to book.
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RFK or M&T. So yes, I would prefer going to a stadium.
If it is possible to put together a profitable show doing so, I would prefer a more Coachella/Bonnaroo 2006-type lineup.
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Pimlico, 2 days, camping.
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Originally posted by ayates:
Pimlico, 2 days, camping.
not really sure you'd want to camp a pimlico...
how about the Laurel Race Track, in googling for info on it I found out about the Laurel Pop Festival of 69 looks which had quite lineup Led Zeppelin, Jethro Tull, Sly and the Family Stone, Guess Who, Mothers Of Invention... It was described on one site as being
an event so small that audience members were allowed to sit on the stage, at least during the sets of Tull, Led Zeppelin and Johnny Winter
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How about Patterson Park, with camping? Good times.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Bombay Chutney:
Multiple days at Merriweather.
I like this idea the best. [/b]
Ditto, I'd go every day.
Otherwise, I'd go to RFK because you can take the metro in and out.
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rocky gap in western maryland
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Ever though about Oregon Ridge Park?
It's up I-83 near Hunt Valley, MD
They have the BSO play there and also has a quarry for swimming?
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Originally posted by dumpkopf:
has a quarry for swimming
hum, now THAT sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
Originally posted by dumpkopf:
has a quarry for swimming
hum, now THAT sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen [/b]
Oh I know esp. with all the drunkards running around.
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Originally posted by dumpkopf:
Ever though about Oregon Ridge Park?
It's up I-83 near Hunt Valley, MD
They have the BSO play there and also has a quarry for swimming?
Now that is my neck of the woods. Can't get all that much closer to home for me.
Would be a nice place but not sure if it's big enough, though honestly, I haven't been there for so many years that I can't really remember what it looks like.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
A downtown park would be ideal, but we don't live in Chicago or NYC.
I would go to RFK before Pimlico, but I would go to Pimlico before I would go to M&T.
The mall would be my ideal spot, but I doubt the feasibility... however, Operation Cease Fire pulled it off some how with an excellent Thievery ending set.
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2 weeks straight at wolf trap