930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: HoyaSaxa03 on March 29, 2005, 01:01:00 pm
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DCist (http://www.dcist.com/archives/2005/03/28/more_music_notes.php#comments) DCeiver (http://dceiver.blogspot.com/2005/03/930-club-tickets-letting-cat-out-of.html)
thoughts?
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i've already caused enough trouble so i'm staying out of this one....
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The Bright Eyes/Faint show has been announced on their website -- with a link to the tickets.com page -- for a couple of weeks. Presumedly, it was on their mailing list as well.
Giving those people a headstart on tickets before the general announcement sounds like a wonderful alternative to the presale clusterfuck.
The people bitching about it seem to be saying "I don't want to be bothered by checking websites or getting on mailing lists, I just want to reap the rewards."
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an ggw orginial? if so nicely put :D
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What's the big debate about? Peter Denton is definitely a wanker, why debate it?
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breaking my own rule..
basically it's a debate about wether or not all information should be freed instantly...
me i'm of the opinion that some information can be as easily be shared privately via email/im/phones as it can be posted on a blog
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Originally posted by vansmack:
What's the big debate about? Peter Denton is definitely a wanker, why debate it?
touche, smackie
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
basically it's a debate about wether or not all information should be freed instantly...
I know, I was kidding.
Everytime the club tries to do something nice for the fans, people who are quicker to post to their blog than to think things through, ruin it for the fans. It's amazing really.
All you naysayers, think about it for a second - why is the club doing this? These shows are going to sell out anyway, so it's no benefit to the club to do this - it's a benefit to the fans. Why can't you see that and embrace it instead of bitching about it?
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does anybody else find the incestuous nature of all these dc blogs and forums really bizarre, and I am including myspace in this, kind of creeps me out
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Originally posted by ratioci nation:
does anybody else find the incestuous nature of all these dc blogs and forums really bizarre, and I am including myspace in this, kind of creeps me out
agreed.
i dont really follow all the blogs around here, but it seems like a soap opera, and not one i'm particularly interested in getting involved with ... myspace is another story altogether, that thing is just creepy ...
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What do the bands themselves think about this? Do they have a say or does the Club reserve the right to distribute tickets as it pleases?
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... and why aren't there any photos of the real Kosmo Vinyl? Just curious. Seems Mr. Vinyl is extremely camera shy.
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blogs have become a new way of networking with like mind people... the ist sites help make the networking a little more formal. i like dcist.com, seeing as i don't bother reading the post, etc there is good information to be found on the other dc blogs. there are somethings that fustrate me about blogs, put they are meant to be personal opinions...
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Originally posted by green door:
What do the bands themselves think about this? Do they have a say or does the Club reserve the right to distribute tickets as it pleases?
well seeing as there is a link from the saddle creek site, it would appear the artist approves of this method. ggw's call on the benefits of quiet presale are spot on.
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The 9:30 Forum is my blog.
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
blogs have become a new way of networking with like mind people... the ist sites help make the networking a little more formal. i like dcist.com, seeing as i don't bother reading the post, etc there is good information to be found on the other dc blogs. there are somethings that fustrate me about blogs, put they are meant to be personal opinions...
i am not talking about blogs in general, I am talking about how the dc blogs are all up in each others junk
I guess myspace is just a whole other scary beast
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I thought Seth said they occasionally did this at the bands' request.
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Originally posted by ratioci nation:
i am not talking about blogs in general, I am talking about how the dc blogs are all up in each others junk
that's what i was referring to ... it's very insular, very incestuous, and, like you said, a bit creepy ... but probably not any more so than this place ...
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well the real Kosmo Vinyl and sometimes Clash manager can be seen on the London Calling 25th anniversary CD/DVD combo. i merely stole his name because i thought it was cool..
and i did come to realization that this forum has been my long running blog, which is why part of me would like to pull out important bits for the sake of history. blogging before blogging was cool :p
i think a lot of city centric blogs get incestous, my brother-in-law is hooked into at least part the nyc blog scene.
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
and i did come to realization that this forum has been my long running blog, which is why part of me would like to pull out important bits for the sake of history. blogging before blogging was cool :p
while we're having this meta-discussion ... why don't we upgrade this message board to a better system? i want a fucking britney spears avatar dammitt!!!
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
well the real Kosmo Vinyl and sometimes Clash manager can be seen on the London Calling 25th anniversary CD/DVD combo. i merely stole his name because i thought it was cool..
Wait. You're not the Clash's manager? Son of a bitch! Can I get all of those fan letters I sent you back please? Oh, and please don't tell anybody what I wrote - it could be a bit embarrassing for me.
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even if there is upgrade to a better system, having seen the utter shite used on other forums, i will lobby long and hard against signatures and avatars. they only clutter things up, just go to one of those freeper sites and tell what you think of such addtional features. it makes me want to hurl...
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
well the real Kosmo Vinyl and sometimes Clash manager can be seen on the London Calling 25th anniversary CD/DVD combo. i merely stole his name because i thought it was cool..
Wait. You're not the Clash's manager? Son of a bitch! Can I get all of those fan letters I sent you back please? Oh, and please don't tell anybody what I wrote - it could be a bit embarrassing for me. [/b]
well my advice to you, is never run for public office... :p
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
but probably not any more so than this place ...
i was including this place ;)
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
even if there is upgrade to a better system, having seen the utter shite used on other forums, i will lobby long and hard against signatures and avatars. they only clutter things up, just go to one of those freeper sites and tell what you think of such addtional features. it makes me want to hurl...
Cheers to that. The UBB system is still the preferred system of Smackie. I recommend it to all of my clients - it's much more professional.
You want avatars - head to the HFSTival Forum.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
The 9:30 Forum is my blog.
Ditto. I actually tried a music and politics blog for me and my friends as we were having full discussions via email among a group of 10 - 20. It didn't catch on.
I stay here 'cuz I most want to know about local music stuff....and the loonies are so loonie!
As for this DCist, DCeiver, it's a benefit that they inform folks who find the 9:30 Club forum 'ridiculous' off of our forum. Glad to know they won't have reason to come around.
I'm not sure about the tickets.com information issue as it is public, and we had a good thing going for a while, but what good thing ever lasts (I'm in a dismal mood these days, forgive me).
If we were talking about the posting of pre-sale passwords, that would make me nuts. I won't even email them to friends as I don not want to see them re-distributed. A PM here and there, perhaps.
Then again, the emergence of pre-sales as a common sales tool is getting ridiculous and out of hand as well. Sends folks freaking out that they didn't get tickets during the pre-sale "are there no more tickets, am I s.o.l.?" It's gotten crazy.
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
even if there is upgrade to a better system, having seen the utter shite used on other forums, i will lobby long and hard against signatures and avatars. they only clutter things up, just go to one of those freeper sites and tell what you think of such addtional features. it makes me want to hurl...
The signatures are WAY annoying, more so than the avatars to me, because the avatars are at least bounded within a specific and limited space. Some folks put friggin' book chapters in their signatures....blech.
Now, question -- is there a particularly useful and informative DC blog? I'm thinking if so, it's DCist.....?
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
and i did come to realization that this forum has been my long running blog, which is why part of me would like to pull out important bits for the sake of history. blogging before blogging was cool :p
while we're having this meta-discussion ... why don't we upgrade this message board to a better system? i want a fucking britney spears avatar dammitt!!! [/b]
Hear HEAR (http://tinyurl.com/2y18) !
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Originally posted by Bags:
Then again, the emergence of pre-sales as a common sales tool is getting ridiculous and out of hand as well. Sends folks freaking out that they didn't get tickets during the pre-sale "are there no more tickets, am I s.o.l.?" It's gotten crazy.
I blame the user for that though - not the pre-sale. If people would just stop for a second and take some time to listen to what people have to say about pre-sales, there wouldn't be as much panic.
It's all part of this knee-jerk reaction generation due to the speeds with which information is travelling these days. Googling has replaced doing research and people have just stopped being analytical. I question if folks are even thinking anymore these days. Forums and Blogs have given people places for anonymous bitching. Do you think these people would be bitching this much if it were in public?
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Do you think these people would be bitching this much if it were in public?
I would (and still do)
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
Originally posted by vansmack:
Do you think these people would be bitching this much if it were in public?
I would (and still do) [/b]
You'll outgrow that.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
You'll outgrow that.
thanks, oh wizened sage.
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seeing as i was the one who wrote the original DCist thread, i figured i should say a couple of things here:
1. why is everybody freaking out? there are still tickets available, as far as i can tell. i presume by the time i had posted that information, most "real" fans had already bought their tickets.
2. if there is really a concern about ticket scalping, maybe you shouldn't be able to buy 10 tickets at a time.
3. i'm sorry, but i can't really stomach the thought that only certain people should be allowed to know the particulars about a show or sale, so as to not "ruin" it for the rest of the fans. who gets to decide who these people are? i didn't post the info to ruin the show for the "true" fans; i did it so as to let any DCist reader who happens to be a bright eyes fan but isn't super-clued into the internet know that they could get tickets.
4. in regards to somebody on the forum calling blogs insular and creepy...pot, meet kettle. as far as the incestuous part, i have no idea where that's coming from.
-DCist catherine
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Originally posted by pablohoney:
in regards to somebody on the forum calling blogs insular and creepy...pot, meet kettle
I don't think you'll find anyone here who disagrees! ;)
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Originally posted by pablohoney:
who gets to decide who these people are?
I do. Where have you been?
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
thanks, oh wizened sage.
I'm just going to start referring to you as "Meat"
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Originally posted by pablohoney:
4. in regards to somebody on the forum calling blogs insular and creepy...pot, meet kettle.
1. in regards to somebody from dcist telling somebody on the forum an abbreviated version of an age old adage:
"that's what i was referring to ... it's very insular, very incestuous, and, like you said, a bit creepy ... but probably not any more so than this place ..."
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
thanks, oh wizened sage.
I'm just going to start referring to you as "Meat" [/b]
you're creepy. and insular.
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Two great tastes that taste great together.
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I'm not freaking out about it... I was merely suggesting that bringing out the pratice into the open will lead to it being shutdown quicker. I also did my usual crap job of defending my stance.
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okay. thanks for doing that interpol review, by the way.
additionally, i should note that whatever the DCeiver says on his own blog is in no way representative of DCist views. he does write for us once in a while, but his blog and what he does for DCist are very separate things. he can get abrasive at points, but i hope nobody takes it personally. i for one really enjoy my lurkage on the forum and don't want there to be any hard feelings.
Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
Originally posted by pablohoney:
4. in regards to somebody on the forum calling blogs insular and creepy...pot, meet kettle.
1. in regards to somebody from dcist telling somebody on the forum an abbreviated version of an age old adage:
"that's what i was referring to ... it's very insular, very incestuous, and, like you said, a bit creepy ... but probably not any more so than this place ..." [/b]
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Originally posted by pablohoney:
seeing as i was the one who wrote the original DCist thread, i figured i should say a couple of things here:
1. why is everybody freaking out? there are still tickets available, as far as i can tell. i presume by the time i had posted that information, most "real" fans had already bought their tickets.
2. if there is really a concern about ticket scalping, maybe you shouldn't be able to buy 10 tickets at a time.
3. i'm sorry, but i can't really stomach the thought that only certain people should be allowed to know the particulars about a show or sale, so as to not "ruin" it for the rest of the fans. who gets to decide who these people are? i didn't post the info to ruin the show for the "true" fans; i did it so as to let any DCist reader who happens to be a bright eyes fan but isn't super-clued into the internet know that they could get tickets.
4. in regards to somebody on the forum calling blogs insular and creepy...pot, meet kettle. as far as the incestuous part, i have no idea where that's coming from.
-DCist catherine
so is it catherine, pablo honey or kettle?
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Originally posted by ratioci nation:
so is it catherine, pablo honey or kettle?
And why do you only capitalize the DC in DCist and not capitalize anything else?
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i answer to many names...we capitalize DCist because, well, it's part of the city name branding stuff from the gothamist.com site (which is from nyc and publishes all the other -ist sites). they've also got SFist (san fran), bostonist, etc. i personally wanted capitalist.com but they went with DCist. which unfortunately many people read as desist.
Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by ratioci nation:
so is it catherine, pablo honey or kettle?
And why do you only capitalize the DC in DCist and not capitalize anything else? [/b]
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Originally posted by pablohoney:
we capitalize DCist because, well, it's part of the city name branding stuff from the gothamist.com site
So licensing agreements get you to use capitalization but well established rules of grammar are out of your realm of rules to follow. I find that fascinating.
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what? no. it's just a name. feel free to type it dcist.com or however you want. we don't have any sort of licensing agreement. i just capitalize the DC so people can hopefully see it's about D.C.
Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by pablohoney:
we capitalize DCist because, well, it's part of the city name branding stuff from the gothamist.com site
So licensing agreements get you to use capitalization but well established rules of grammar are out of your realm of rules to follow. I find that fascinating. [/b]
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and i don't capitalize anything else because, well, i'm lazy. i didn't realize it could bother someone so much.
Originally posted by pablohoney:
what? no. it's just a name. feel free to type it dcist.com or however you want. we don't have any sort of licensing agreement. i just capitalize the DC so people can hopefully see it's about D.C.
Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by pablohoney:
we capitalize DCist because, well, it's part of the city name branding stuff from the gothamist.com site
So licensing agreements get you to use capitalization but well established rules of grammar are out of your realm of rules to follow. I find that fascinating. [/b]
[/b]
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from my nonexistent post count you'll see I'm coming in from the DCist side of this argument, but it does seem to me like keeping the information secret is an imperfect sytem. I agree completely that releasing passwords would be in poor form, but I don't see this tickets.com exploit as a deliberate plan by anyone to ensure that tickets get into the hands of the worthy.
And that's the problem: hanging out in a particular online forum or knowing a particular circle of the city's hipsters may correlate fairly well with being a hardcore fan, but it's far from perfect. If somebody lives out in Reston, works construction and cries themselves to sleep listening to Belle & Sebastian every night, are they being served by the current system of online cliquey-ness? Hell, the whole notion of one fan deserving tickets more than another is problematic.
I'm all for discouraging scalping, and making sure that as much rabid fan devotion as possible is packed onto the 9:30 floor for every show. But it seems like there would be better ways to go about it -- like, say, not letting people order 10 tickets, limiting purchases to noncommercial credit cards, checking addresses against credit cards and limiting purchases by address... etc.
Not to get impossibly nerdy, but "security through obscurity" is a popular punchline in the internet business. This is no way to prevent scalping.
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well the preventing scalping angle was overplayed on my part... i'm just tired of seeing the complaints in the wake of presales/sales for Audioslave, Wilco, Interpol, Garbage, etc...
and my intial point was that it's fine to share information, just do it via email, etc...
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Originally posted by pablohoney:
and i don't capitalize anything else because, well, i'm lazy. i didn't realize it could bother someone so much.
I'm not bothered by it at all. In fact, I really do find it fascinating. For most people it's all or nothing, in the mold of ee cummings, but oddly, everytime you type DC you capitalize it, but not NYC for example, or even the letter I. Even more compelling would be the SF in SFist, but that you didn't capitalize San Fran. It's all for marketing I guess, but it really is odd.
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I love "DCist" as a name, by the way. I think it does get the pointof the blog across.
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no, really, it's not for marketing. i'm just lazy/a bad typist. you'd never know i majored in english or was going to journalism school.
Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by pablohoney:
and i don't capitalize anything else because, well, i'm lazy. i didn't realize it could bother someone so much.
I'm not bothered by it at all. In fact, I really do find it fascinating. For most people it's all or nothing, in the mold of ee cummings, but oddly, everytime you type DC you capitalize it, but not NYC for example, or even the letter I. Even more compelling would be the SF in SFist, but that you didn't capitalize San Fran. It's all for marketing I guess, but it really is odd. [/b]
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Originally posted by sbma44:
hanging out in a particular online forum or knowing a particular circle of the city's hipsters may correlate fairly well with being a hardcore fan, but it's far from perfect.
While it is an imperfect way of getting tickets to the most hardcore fans, I don't think that means they should stop trying different ways of trying to get scarce tickets to those who may want them most. Presales have proven problematic, this idea doesn't strike me as particularly bad.
Also, is anyone certain that this isn't something that was done at the band's request?
Finally, I find it somewhat amusing that this discussion has been elevated to a high-minded one about "egalitarianism" and "freedom of information." (Not directed solely at you, sbma44)
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that DCeiver filed a FOIA request to stop the systematic "denial of information" by the evil 9:30 club.
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i dont think any of this was ever meant as a PRIVATE -- 930 FORUM MEMBERS ONLY type o deal ... and the practice was never really talked about on here before this brew-haha ...
ANYONE, dcist readers, 930 forumites, bloggers, whatever could have known about this, but mostly the people who know about it are those who check their favorite band's website, see that they're going to play a show at the 930 Club, and just go to tickets.com and see that they're on sale ... as i understand it, the info has been up on the bright eyes site for a while now ...
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Originally posted by sbma44:
but it does seem to me like keeping the information secret is an imperfect sytem.
The system was already imperfect. What further harm is done here by bands selling tickets to their fans before the club announces the show?
Originally posted by sbma44:
And that's the problem: hanging out in a particular online forum or knowing a particular circle of the city's hipsters may correlate fairly well with being a hardcore fan, but it's far from perfect.
You mean hardcore fans don't check the bands web site or receive the bands emails? That's how I found out about Bright Eyes tickets going on sale.
It was still only subtly mentioned on this site. On the bands sites however, it was very prominent.
I think the club and the bands are doing their fans a service. Of course there is nothing wrong with Bloggers reporting it - I think Kosmo was half kidding when he made his initial post. What was wrong was the attack on the club and this forum for keeping alleged secrets. I have a sneaking suspicion this was the bands doing and if this was the clubs idea - kudo's to them too. They take enough heat from fans bitching all the time when it's generally the bands fault, might as well try something new.
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
i dont think any of this was ever meant as a PRIVATE -- 930 FORUM MEMBERS ONLY type o deal ... and the practice was never really talked about on here before this brew-haha ...
It has, in several threads...
http://www.930.com/cgi-bin/ubb-cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009433 (http://www.930.com/cgi-bin/ubb-cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009433)
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hmmmmm, i stand corrected ...
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Finally, I find it somewhat amusing that this discussion has been elevated to a high-minded one about "egalitarianism" and "freedom of information."
Yeah, but that's what these things ultimately boil down to: democratizing ticket distribution so that everyone has an equal shot at getting a ticket, and connections or (more commonly) money don't become the deciding factor in who gets to see what.
To get even more navel-gazey, it's really weird to see the half-assed technological adoption done by the concert industry. We've got RSS feeds, listservs and forums, but no way around service charges, no good way to prevent scalping, and universal (instead of per-fan) passwords for fan club presales. Bah!
Oh well. Sorry to gripe, but this really is an area where things could get better if anyone gave a damn.
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Originally posted by sbma44:
per-fan passwords for fan club presales.
Just ask U2 how that went over....
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Might I commend you on your argument:
Originally posted by sbma44:
Yeah, but that's what these things ultimately boil down to: democratizing ticket distribution so that everyone has an equal shot at getting a ticket
and universal (instead of per-fan) passwords for fan club presales.
So you want democracy for tickets sales and presales but only if they're individual?
Maybe you should rethink this a bit. You can't have it all.
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
hmmmmm, i stand corrected ...
PS, I wasn't trying to be snarky to you Hoya; I think it's interesting that there was true wonder and debate over the practice here as well.
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Maybe you should rethink this a bit. You can't have it all.
I don't think they're necessarily in conflict if the password distribution is sufficiently easy to get in on -- maybe charge $1 to join the fanclub or something to guarantee one ticket per CC#.
But I see what you're saying. I just think your mistake is to equate a lawless, libertarian-ish ticket distribution regime with being free and democratic. There *do* need to be restrictions on ticket distribution to discourage scalpers, but right now those restrictive mechanisms come in the form of secrets and having to spend time trawling through websites and forums. That's not a great system -- scalpers can still find tickets, and genuine fans might not hear about the show in time. Instead the solution should be open and based around limiting individuals' ability to buy for the purpose of reselling at a profit.
Another crazy idea: resell unused (not unclaimed) will-call tickets after X minutes of the opener's set. Let folks pay a surcharge for "secured" tickets if they aren't sure they can make it to the show in time. That ought to make scalpers' lives harder by providing a pool of available tickets immediately before the show, and by putting a window on how long they can sell tickets for. The club'd get to charge twice for unused tickets, too. You'd have to track individual tickets, but they already use barcode scanners at wolftrap -- couldn't be that hard.
Anyway, these are just ideas. I'm not saying it's a snap to figure out how to do this, but it definitely seems possible.
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
well the preventing scalping angle was overplayed on my part... i'm just tired of seeing the complaints in the wake of presales/sales for Audioslave, Wilco, Interpol, Garbage, etc...
and my intial point was that it's fine to share information, just do it via email, etc...
I've never had problems getting tickets to any shows at the 930, except for the ones you listed. And those bands should be playing bigger venues anyway. If a really popular band plays a venue the size of the 930, it's gonna sell out and there are going to be people who can't get tickets.
Is the problem here that DCist posted the info or that the info was posted at all? Because many of the other (albeit smaller) local blogs have put up this presale info since I moved here last year. No one seemd to mind it then. There is one particular blog I check every Tuesday to find out all the pre sale info b/c they knew the "trick" Catherine just posted about. To my knowledge no one told them to stop.
And I gotta agree with Catherine that selling tickets 10 at a time isn't exactly discouraging scalpers. Who here has ever bought 10 tickets at once to a show?
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Originally posted by leafblower:
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
And I gotta agree with Catherine that selling tickets 10 at a time isn't exactly discouraging scalpers. Who here has ever bought 10 tickets at once to a show? [/b]
( raises hand ) I have
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Originally posted by sbma44:
Maybe you should rethink this a bit. You can't have it all.
But I see what you're saying. I just think your mistake is to equate a lawless, libertarian-ish ticket distribution regime with being free and democratic. There *do* need to be restrictions on ticket distribution to discourage scalpers, but right now those restrictive mechanisms come in the form of secrets and having to spend time trawling through websites and forums. That's not a great system -- scalpers can still find tickets, and genuine fans might not hear about the show in time. Instead the solution should be open and based around limiting individuals' ability to buy for the purpose of reselling at a profit.
[/b]
And how fair is it when shows sell out during the pre sale? Only super fans get to see the bands at the 930? If the casual music fan doesn't get in, how do bands win new fans?
PS - In the interest of full disclosure, I also write for DCist and have my own blog.
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Originally posted by SPARX:
Originally posted by leafblower:
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
And I gotta agree with Catherine that selling tickets 10 at a time isn't exactly discouraging scalpers. Who here has ever bought 10 tickets at once to a show? [/b]
( raises hand ) I have [/b]
Then I stand corrected. BGut I imagine you're in the minority. I got 2 or 3 concerts a week and I've never bought 10 tickets for show ever.
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Originally posted by leafblower:
Originally posted by sbma44:
Maybe you should rethink this a bit. You can't have it all.
[/b]
If the casual music fan doesn't get in, how do bands win new fans?
[/b]
I wouldn't think too many people get turned on to a band via the live show(although I'm sure it happens) Most of the time it is word of mouth,radio, internet, magazines, record stores,that get them interested,then they go see them.Unless you have unlimited cash flow to take chances on bands you've never heard,which i think would be rare,that argument doesn't fly.
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Originally posted by SPARX:
Originally posted by leafblower:
Originally posted by sbma44:
Maybe you should rethink this a bit. You can't have it all.
[/b]
If the casual music fan doesn't get in, how do bands win new fans?
[/b]
I wouldn't think too many people get turned on to a band via the live show(although I'm sure it happens) Most of the time it is word of mouth,radio, internet, magazines, record stores,that get them interested,then they go see them.Unless you have unlimited cash flow to take chances on bands you've never heard,which i think would be rare,that argument doesn't fly. [/b]
So you've never gone to see a band just because someone told you they were awesome live?
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Originally posted by leafblower:
Originally posted by SPARX:
Originally posted by leafblower:
Originally posted by sbma44:
Maybe you should rethink this a bit. You can't have it all.
[/b]
If the casual music fan doesn't get in, how do bands win new fans?
[/b]
I wouldn't think too many people get turned on to a band via the live show(although I'm sure it happens) Most of the time it is word of mouth,radio, internet, magazines, record stores,that get them interested,then they go see them.Unless you have unlimited cash flow to take chances on bands you've never heard,which i think would be rare,that argument doesn't fly. [/b]
So you've never gone to see a band just because someone told you they were awesome live? [/b]
Not w/out hearing them first. Momma didn't raise no fools.
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Originally posted by leafblower:
So you've never gone to see a band just because someone told you they were awesome live?
I have, but on very well informed advice (ie, I know where the advice is coming from, what they like, if they understand what I like, etc).
Granted, I don't do this for your random $20-30 show, but for $10, sure. [Though these days you can usually listen to at least a couple MP3s before you decide...]
That said, the kinds of bands I'd see on a whim are not your big sell-outs. I'm talking Dressy Bessy at the backstage, etc.
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Originally posted by Bags:
Originally posted by leafblower:
So you've never gone to see a band just because someone told you they were awesome live?
I have, but on very well informed advice (ie, I know where the advice is coming from, what they like, if they understand what I like, etc).
Granted, I don't do this for your random $20-30 show, but for $10, sure. [Though these days you can usually listen to at least a couple MP3s before you decide...]
That said, the kinds of bands I'd see on a whim are not your big sell-outs. I'm talking Dressy Bessy at the backstage, etc. [/b]
One must also factor in location of ones self compared to venue in question.Bags,for you I know it's not a lenghty process,for others its simply not the case.I would think in your and others living nearby it would just be a matter of "going out" to hang with whoever told you versus making a specific trek to see an unknown act. Disclaimer:not trying to be argumentative.
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You're exactly right, Sparx. It's as easy as going to my local pub, so that certainly plays in to it.
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Originally posted by leafblower:
Is the problem here that DCist posted the info or that the info was posted at all? Because many of the other (albeit smaller) local blogs have put up this presale info since I moved here last year. No one seemd to mind it then.
I think this is the crux of things. It's the cyber-equivalent of telling your friends (smaller blogs) vs. telling the world (larger blogs like DCist). There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but it's a bit disappointing for those of us who found a way to get ahead of the game a little.
This will be an interesting experiment though. If the Bright Eyes shows sellout before they even "announce" them, then we'll know the secret is out. If the shows don't sellout for quite a while, it's a lot of hubbub about nothing. Maybe eddie can tell us if there's been a huge spike in sales today.
As for Snow Patrol, you'd have to be living under an indie rock to not know about that one. They've been onsale for over a month now.
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Originally posted by leafblower:
And how fair is it when shows sell out during the pre sale?
This has never happened to my knowledge. Pre-sale is only for a small percentage of the entire ticket allotment. Anytime you don't get a ticket in pre-sale, you will always have a shot during the sale to the general public.
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two things
first of all i will be wearing the dunce hat at the phoenix show, having violated my own information policy. i should have just emailed catherine direct and explained my personal not reflection anyone elses position on the matter. never saw a huge debate arising over a small half assed remark, which was a repeat of something said on this board.
secondly, since i continue to get hammered on this... and this is said with tongue firmly planted in cheek. DCist did its readers who are Fall Out Boys fans a huge disservice by not mentioning when their tickets went quietly on sale. (ok i peeked once)
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Originally posted by leafblower:
And how fair is it when shows sell out during the pre sale? Only super fans get to see the bands at the 930? If the casual music fan doesn't get in, how do bands win new fans?
If the shows sell out that fast then the band shouldn't be playing such a small venue. That is assuming that the goal of the band is to sell as many tickets as possible.
If the goal of the band is not profit maximization but, instead, to play an intimate show at a smaller venue, then I see nothing wrong with rewarding those who took the trouble of signing up for the mailing list or visting the band's website.
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Originally posted by sbma44:
I just think your mistake is to equate a lawless, libertarian-ish ticket distribution regime with being free and democratic.
I think your mistake is equating the way governments are run with the way tickets are sold.
We're talking about selling tickets, not running a country.
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Originally posted by SPARX:
Originally posted by leafblower:
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
And I gotta agree with Catherine that selling tickets 10 at a time isn't exactly discouraging scalpers. Who here has ever bought 10 tickets at once to a show? [/b]
( raises hand ) I have [/b]
I have too. But it wouldn't have been hard to get one or two of those friends to buy their own block of four (or even six). A simple little policy change I hope the club might consider.
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Originally posted by Lane:
Originally posted by SPARX:
Originally posted by leafblower:
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
And I gotta agree with Catherine that selling tickets 10 at a time isn't exactly discouraging scalpers. Who here has ever bought 10 tickets at once to a show? [/b]
( raises hand ) I have [/b]
I have too. But it wouldn't have been hard to get one or two of those friends to buy their own block of four (or even six). [/b]
No,it wouldn't have had we wanted to pay more in service charges,money wasted IMHO.Keeping costs down is a good thing,right?
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
even if there is upgrade to a better system, having seen the utter shite used on other forums, i will lobby long and hard against signatures and avatars. they only clutter things up, just go to one of those freeper sites and tell what you think of such addtional features. it makes me want to hurl...
i like avatars, then i can usually tell when someone makes a name change. actually, disable that and it will be all good.
also, capitalization is for suckaz
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Originally posted by Bombay Chutney:
Originally posted by leafblower:
Is the problem here that DCist posted the info or that the info was posted at all? Because many of the other (albeit smaller) local blogs have put up this presale info since I moved here last year. No one seemd to mind it then.
I think this is the crux of things. It's the cyber-equivalent of telling your friends (smaller blogs) vs. telling the world (larger blogs like DCist). There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but it's a bit disappointing for those of us who found a way to get ahead of the game a little.
This will be an interesting experiment though. If the Bright Eyes shows sellout before they even "announce" them, then we'll know the secret is out. If the shows don't sellout for quite a while, it's a lot of hubbub about nothing. Maybe eddie can tell us if there's been a huge spike in sales today.
As for Snow Patrol, you'd have to be living under an indie rock to not know about that one. They've been onsale for over a month now. [/b]
Thanks for finally answering my question.
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DCist (http://www.dcist.com/archives/2005/04/13/bloc_party_headed_back_to_dc.php) is at it again...
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i maybe a dork but i'm certainly no hipster... i've never seen so much glee taken over one half assed remark in my life. so is blogging little more than gossiping?
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If you were as ugly as me, you too would take glee wherever you stumbled upon it.
<img src="http://www.dcist.com/images/bioimages/jason.JPG" alt=" - " />
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Sadly I missed the early parts of this discussion. Course, my comments would have been directed more at Dceiver than DCist. At least the latter doesn't make an issue out of every living thing. My opinion, not that it matters, is that announcing show dates that are posted on forums are fair game. Honestly, i have avoided posting dates on BY on a number of occasions because I didn't want to ruin the 930 pre-sales or what have you. But I can totally understand why DCist would do it.
But, there is no need to be a jack-ass about it, ala DCeiver. And when push comes to shove, who the hell reads Dceiver anyway, other than his friends? So I don't think his updates really affect any of the shows selling out.
On an unrelated note, I hate not usually having the time to post on the board anymore. I feel like i have all this pent up anger and resentment looking to get out. Quick, where's Rhett?
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
i maybe a dork but i'm certainly no hipster... i've never seen so much glee taken over one half assed remark in my life. so is blogging little more than gossiping?
i think catherine and the rest of the bloggers misinterpreted your intentions, and im not sure why they insist on rubbing it in ... oh well, i can see joe heim at washpost start to run with these tix and dates, and once that happens, i wouldn't be surprised to see the practice stop ...
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
i maybe a dork but i'm certainly no hipster... i've never seen so much glee taken over one half assed remark in my life. so is blogging little more than gossiping?
I did a quick scan and really don't know exactly what happened so I'm guessing the gist of the details. Anyhow, can't wait for the KSMOstival sell out.
(OT: statement on the DCist about Snow Patrol's origins. Scotland not Ireland, non?
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i just re-read that dcist post ... so unecessarily snarky to you koz, especially after a) you tried to make peace on the last issue, and b) she tried to be above the fray
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i'm sorry you find the post snarky, but i didn't intend it to be. i thought my recounting of how it went down was accurate ("a few people thought these sales should be on a 'need-to-know' basis for 'real fans'; we thought that was silly"). i also didn't mention kosmo by name and it wasn't my intention to call him out - i was referring to all the people who argued the other side in the comment thread. i guess my only suggestion is that this stuff not get taken so seriously, and i'm sorry if it is a big deal to you. i didn't mean it to be offensive.
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and fwiw, the members of snow patrol are from (northern) ireland and are now based in scotland.
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i heard they were jack white's protege's from the motor city ... damn this back issue of magnet!!
and, yes, pablo, it was a very big deal to me ... i was so bummed that i was planning on leaving work early, picking up a pint of ben and jerry's and just sitting on the couch all afternoon watching reruns of maury povich ... but your explanation helped, thanks!
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Originally posted by pablohoney:
silly
It doesn't seem extremely snarky to me, except for that one loaded word. Which is very snarky. You could've just as effectively, and non-snarkily, said "we disagree."
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first off "on a need to know basis" is just me being silly. it's a commonly used phrase kicked around regarding intelligence and security clearences. i guess i should said something like "keep it on the downlow" or "be very very quiet we are hunting rabbits", or "share quietly amongst yourselves".
my point is still that information regarding "quiet" ticket sales can as easily be shared via email with friends as it is can be posted on a blog. obviously it makes sense to have it posted on this forum because it serves people who attend 9:30 shows and are interested in the Bloc Party show. plus, we don't necessarily blab it all over the forum.
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i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point. i just don't think the information should be restricted to any one group of people.
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
first off "on a need to know basis" is just me being silly. it's a commonly used phrase kicked around regarding intelligence and security clearences. i guess i should said something like "keep it on the downlow" or "be very very quiet we are hunting rabbits", or "share quietly amongst yourselves".
my point is still that information regarding "quiet" ticket sales can as easily be shared via email with friends as it is can be posted on a blog. obviously it makes sense to have it posted on this forum because it serves people who attend 9:30 shows and are interested in the Bloc Party show. plus, we don't necessarily blab it all over the forum.
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Originally posted by pablohoney:
and fwiw, the members of snow patrol are from (northern) ireland and are now based in scotland.
what's fwiw?
well...................not to be snarky, and I really don't care, and I am probably wrong --- but *cough* talk to the lead singer (just sayin' he stated differently and seductively about his original birthplace. I guess you had to be there. ;) Bags???)
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just went over to DCeiver, hadn't been there since this west side story started
i think that some of the funniest / most amusing writing is when someone smugly, satirically, and (seemingly) intelligently dismisses an idea (http://dceiver.blogspot.com/2005/03/930-ticket-kitty-out-of-bag-and.html), but completely misses the original point he meant to lampoon
the author arrogantly dots his t's, crosses his i's, and presses <ENTER> without even knowing how far off he was from the original premise.
its the glee that little moments like these bring that make life worth living. oh, and maury povich reruns. i have them on VHS.
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oh, okay. i had just read they all met in n. ireland, but i certainly could be wrong.
Originally posted by abulum:
Originally posted by pablohoney:
and fwiw, the members of snow patrol are from (northern) ireland and are now based in scotland.
well...................not to be snarky, and I really don't care, and I am probably wrong --- but *cough* talk to the lead singer (just sayin' he stated differently and seductively about his original birthplace. I guess you had to be there. ;) Bags???) [/b]
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Isn't it about time for one of those "Please Make It Stop" pictures?
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oh, okay. i had just read they all met in n. ireland, but i certainly could be wrong.
Originally posted by abulum:
Originally posted by pablohoney:
and fwiw, the members of snow patrol are from (northern) ireland and are now based in scotland.
well...................not to be snarky, and I really don't care, and I am probably wrong --- but *cough* talk to the lead singer (just sayin' he stated differently and seductively about his original birthplace. I guess you had to be there. ;) Bags???) [/b]
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Originally posted by Bombay Chutney:
Isn't it about time for one of those "Please Make It Stop" pictures?
I think it's time for a rumble!!
<img src="http://www.fakenews.net/archive/bit_parts/i/west_side_story_96_11_16_f.jpg" alt=" - " />
Ferrell: Did you really like it?
Norm: What?
Ferrell: The song.
Norm: Did I really like it? Yeah yeah, I liked it. Hey- hey, I like another song too. You know- you know this one, it's called, ah, "While you were singing, I got stabbed in the head by a Puerto Rican!"
<img src="http://www.fakenews.net/archive/bit_parts/i/west_side_story_96_11_16_r.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
just went over to DCeiver, hadn't been there since this west side story started
i think that some of the funniest / most amusing writing is when someone smugly, satirically, and (seemingly) intelligently dismisses an idea (http://dceiver.blogspot.com/2005/03/930-ticket-kitty-out-of-bag-and.html), but completely misses the original point he meant to lampoon
the author arrogantly dots his t's, crosses his i's, and presses <ENTER> without even knowing how far off he was from the original premise.
its the glee that little moments like these bring that make life worth living. oh, and maury povich reruns. i have them on VHS.
HoyaSaxa--
I have gone back over the post you cited above. I must admit, reading it again, that post was very poorly reasoned. You are absolutely correct to point that out.
DCeiver
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Hey, I know I am late to this whole conversation, and I guess in the internet age that any blog has the "right" to publish whatever they want. I only have one point to add-
What is wrong with the 9:30 club for having pre-sales to reward board regulars (aka music snobs as reported on some blogs) but almost every other business has loyalty programs for regular customers? A close examination of this board would show that many regular posters are also regular concert attendees, even for shows that don't sell out. Why not reward them?
And while we are talking business interests; isn't kind of interesting that DCist is critical of pre-sales and and writes hysterically that tickets are bought up ahead of time by "hipsters" and "insiders" (even when they are on sale to the public months before the show to anyone willing to look for them) yet that same DCist gets ad revenue from a number of ticket brokers? Doesn't it actually help ticket brokers to make people think that only insiders get tickets when that is not really true?
(Full disclosure: I have never subscribed to the snail mail newsletter but have always got into the shows that I wanted because I buy tickets early; I missed block party becasue I was too lazy to walk 6 blocks to the Black Cat back in early March to buy the tickets even though I knew they were on sale. How un-American, taking responsability for my own mistakes.)
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i'd like to see where we've written hysterically complaining about "hipsters" buying up tickets. a quote and a link would be nice.
for the record, the editorial staff at DCist has absolutely no say in what kind of ads are on our sidebars. i don't even know what kinds of ads we're currently running, and they certainly don't inform any content we post.
Originally posted by tbmtt:
Hey, I know I am late to this whole conversation, and I guess in the internet age that any blog has the "right" to publish whatever they want. I only have one point to add-
What is wrong with the 9:30 club for having pre-sales to reward board regulars (aka music snobs as reported on some blogs) but almost every other business has loyalty programs for regular customers? A close examination of this board would show that many regular posters are also regular concert attendees, even for shows that don't sell out. Why not reward them?
And while we are talking business interests; isn't kind of interesting that DCist is critical of pre-sales and and writes hysterically that tickets are bought up ahead of time by "hipsters" and "insiders" (even when they are on sale to the public months before the show to anyone willing to look for them) yet that same DCist gets ad revenue from a number of ticket brokers?
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Originally posted by tbmtt:
What is wrong with the 9:30 club for having pre-sales to reward board regulars (aka music snobs as reported on some blogs) but almost every other business has loyalty programs for regular customers? A close examination of this board would show that many regular posters are also regular concert attendees, even for shows that don't sell out. Why not reward them?
not to completely flog this to death (what am i kidding, this is going on WAY too long), but i think you're missing a major point here ... 930 doesn't make the tix available early for forumites, they're for anybody and everybody who goes through the effort to find out about them, which is normally hard core fans of the bands and people who care enough about local live music to find out
and through all of this, none of the 930 staphers have really said anything, so we ALL could just be dead wrong.
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this fight kinda seems like hipsters eating their own. do that many people really read this board other than the 20 (or so) regular posters? or am i way off there too? i can never keep anyone straight except rhett. is the 930 board and these blogs fighting for the readership of the same 300 people that go see ted leo 3 times a year? ah well, its funny when people take stuff on the internet seriously. please continue
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
[/qb]
i think you're missing a major point here ... 930 doesn't make the tix available early for forumites, they're for anybody and everybody who goes through the effort to find out about them [/QB][/QUOTE]
No Hoya I agree completely, I guess I did not articulate that point well enough. See my posts on the DCist from earlier today where I made this point and was piled on. Thanks for making this point though.
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Originally posted by tbmtt:
I only have one point to add-
What is wrong with the 9:30 club for having pre-sales to reward board regulars (aka music snobs as reported on some blogs) but almost every other business has loyalty programs for regular customers? A
I'm quite sure I've never heard anyone denigrate the practice of pre-sales for loyal fans. In fact, the people who write on forums and subscribe to 9:30's newsletter should indeed get some special dispensation in that regard. Were it in my power to grant, I would gladly grant it.
I'm afraid that my position on this is and has been, ever resolutely, that the information on http://purchase.tickets.com/buy/TicketPurchase?orgid=3595 (http://purchase.tickets.com/buy/TicketPurchase?orgid=3595) is in the public domain and does not constitute a pre-sale.
Maybe this will clarify things.
DCeiver
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Originally posted by Fabby:
I'm quite sure I've never heard anyone denigrate the practice of pre-sales for loyal fans.
well, let me be the first here to say that i think pre-sales are usually retarded, and i'd think many others here would agree ... they're usually for popular shows, so hundreds of people clamor over (maybe) 50 tickets. ugh.
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
well, let me be the first here to say that i think pre-sales are usually retarded, and i'd think many others here would agree ... they're usually for popular shows, so hundreds of people clamor over (maybe) 50 tickets. ugh.
As a regular forum member and very frequent concert-goer, I completely agree. Pre-sales have become a chaotic clusterf*** and I find them more annoying than anything. They're also far too prevalent now.
As to how annoying they are, just look at the ticket exchange right now; there are numerous postings from 'poor souls' who didn't get tickets during the Ryan Adams pre-sale and think they're completely out of luck (and possibly likely shafting targets for scalpers selling at a premium, while most of the tickets have yet to go on sale!).
Though I don't think any of this is the Club's fault. A lot of this pre-sale shit is instigated and requested by the band or band's management. And, after all, it does create hype, doesn't it?
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let me just add my $.02...
dcist sucks. what a waste of bandwidth. there isn't anything on there that a resourceful washingtonian couldn't find for herself. i mean, come on, it's the dc news page for lazy people who don't know where to look.
so, am i surprised about them posting stuff for lazy people who don't look on tickets. com? no. they'll keep doing it as long as they can call it "news" and make ad revenue on it. in the meantime, those of us who do know where to look and make an effort to do so will continue to find them slow, redundant, and egotistic.
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Originally posted by Fabby:
DCeiver
ooOOOooo can I change my handle to "snappy" and sign my posts too?
DCertified
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Originally posted by Bombay Chutney:
Isn't it about time for one of those "Please Make It Stop" pictures?
<img src="http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=please+make+it+stop/v=2/SID=w/l=IVI/SIG=128o50dej/EXP=1113576117/*-http%3A//www.thecatgallery.com/images/cat-wetkitty.jpg" alt=" - " />
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thanks thats exactly how i feel at the moment :p
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Originally posted by chimbly sweep:
Originally posted by Fabby:
DCeiver
ooOOOooo can I change my handle to "snappy" and sign my posts too?
DCertified [/b]
Why yes. Yes you can.
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<img src="http://www.w3bdevil.com/forums/ThatIs-NotInteresting.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Really...if we're going to talk about blogs.
then please go and read mine! Castor Oil (http://drinkyeroil.blogspot.com)
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Originally posted by the Pharmacist:
Really...if we're going to talk about blogs.
then please go and read mine! Castor Oil (http://drinkyeroil.blogspot.com)
The Pharmacist's blog is, indeed, a must read. Drinking, fighting, rocking, plus he's got the cutest kid in the world. Castor Oil is tigs.-
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Thanks mang...
The idiots at the bar almost got into a fight last night over whether a "true pickled egg recipe" contained beet juice or not. Even for that place it was startling.
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Originally posted by the Pharmacist:
Thanks mang...
The idiots at the bar almost got into a fight last night over whether a "true pickled egg recipe" contained beet juice or not. Even for that place it was startling.
Good Lord. That place has got to be the best bar ever.
DCeiver
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Originally posted by the Pharmacist:
Thanks mang...
The idiots at the bar almost got into a fight last night over whether a "true pickled egg recipe" contained beet juice or not. Even for that place it was startling.
What, are you hanging out with those drug dealing Amish Pagans (the biker gang) again?
*Off to eat my last pickled egg....with beet juice.* YUM!
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The Pagans do hang out there on occasion, the kind that ride motorcycles and extract teeth with pliars, not the burlap sack Stonehenge building kind.
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a new possible target for our ire. (http://lcshome.blogspot.com/) This guy doesn't even seem to have any pattern or relevance to his evil acts. Sheesh.
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It's gotta either be Tom Delay or the Nazi Pope behind this terrible act of villiany. Someone call Tango and Cash, we need some vestigatin' done!!!