930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: Frank Gallagher on June 01, 2005, 04:23:00 am
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Pat Buchanan and Chuck Colson commit professional and moral suicide on NBC this a.m. Now we know their view: Presidents who lie, cheat, steal and corrupt the authority of their office = OK. FBI agents who leak legit investigational info because of their outrage - and belief it will be buried = evil cowards...sigh. Hard to believe those two continue to prosper. Hypocrisy thy name is Buchanan.
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Originally posted by BadSushi:
Pat Buchanan and Chuck Colson commit professional and moral suicide on NBC this a.m. Now we know their view: Presidents who lie, cheat, steal and corrupt the authority of their office = OK. FBI agents who leak legit investigational info because of their outrage - and belief it will be buried = evil cowards...sigh. Hard to believe those two continue to prosper. Hypocrisy thy name is Buchanan.
Do you mean to say that there ARE some Presidents who don't lie, cheat, steal and corrupt the authority of their office? That's a new one to me. Some just hide it better than others.
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Did Carter pull any of those pranks?
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Carter helicoptered into Three Mile Island at the height of the disaster and made the right decision in the control room on how to best cool down TMI reactor #2.
Does any one see Bush, Reagan or any other career politico doing something similar? Heck, most presidents fly away from danger.
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I like Carter as a non-president, but he sucked as a President... and helicoptering into TMI is an example of why. It's called micromanagement.
On the plus side, he was more honest than any President we've had since. The same can't be said about the people he surrounded himself with, unfortunately.
As for Liddy et al... their position seems to be that bucking the system makes you a traitor no matter how bad that system is. They would've made good little Nazis.
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Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
I like Carter as a non-president, but he sucked as a President... and helicoptering into TMI is an example of why. It's called micromanagement.
You haven't the foggiest idea what you are saying. Via your logic, then MacArthur wasn't a good general because he micromanaged Inchon. Van Gogh wasn't a good painter because he micromanaged the daisies. Credence Clearwater Revival wasn't a good listen because John Fogarty micromanged the band.
People who work in government just love neologisms like 'micromanagement', don't they?
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You miss two major points:
1. Felt leaked the info as a personal vendetta. He thought he should have been appointed FBI Director but was passed over by the Nixon administration.
2. As a law enforcement officer his duty was to report crimes to a prosecutor, not to hide behind anonymity and leak info to reporters.
By all appearances, he acted far less out of a sense of "justice" than out of selfish vengeance. Leaking to the Post was a perfect way to embarass the administration and the new FBI director without risking anything.
Originally posted by BadSushi:
Pat Buchanan and Chuck Colson commit professional and moral suicide on NBC this a.m. Now we know their view: Presidents who lie, cheat, steal and corrupt the authority of their office = OK. FBI agents who leak legit investigational info because of their outrage - and belief it will be buried = evil cowards...sigh. Hard to believe those two continue to prosper. Hypocrisy thy name is Buchanan.
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Okay, I'm trying to see your point of view. Now, because you're articulate and old enuf to remember the events, how do you defend "All the President's Men" and the actions of Richard Nixon? One egregious action by Felts DOES NOT IMHO forgive or explain sufficiently the entire break-in/cover-up/political espionage perpetrated by an INCUMBENT President.
How would the full disclosure of events EVER have emerged? "Ken Starr" (i.e., Sam Ervin) investigating for twenty years with no final resolution? By then, the Nixon Library would have been finished and his administration totally glorified. BTW: Buchanan attributes Felt with thousands of deaths in Vietnam...of course, Matt Lauer then interrupts so we never hear Pat's reasoning...this is SOOO weird after all these years!
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George Washington could never tell a lie.....evidently.
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Originally posted by BadSushi:
Okay, I'm trying to see your point of view. Now, because you're articulate and old enuf to remember the events, how do you defend "All the President's Men" and the actions of Richard Nixon? One egregious action by Felts DOES NOT IMHO forgive or explain sufficiently the entire break-in/cover-up/political espionage perpetrated by an INCUMBENT President.
that's 2 entirely different events. nixon was trying to take over the FBI after hoover's death by appointing an assistant attorney general (from the john dean-run doj) as head of the fbi, instead of a long-time fbi guy like felt. now, i'm not gonna go to lengths to say what felt did was wrong. . what i will say is that he was upset at nixon for being passed over as head of fbi; he was being a good company-man (and probably a good hoover crony) by helping woodward along the path to the watergate cover-up. if anything, felt was more upset at nixon's attempts to take over the fbi than anything else.
but, i imagine woodward will explain alot of this in his article tomorrow.
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Originally posted by O'Mankie:
George Washington could never tell a lie.....evidently.
"Father, I cannot tell a lie...little Tommy Jefferson chopped down the cherry tree."
Now Watergate does not bother me. Does your conscience bother you?
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Originally posted by BadSushi:
Okay, I'm trying to see your point of view. Now, because you're articulate and old enuf to remember the events, how do you defend "All the President's Men" and the actions of Richard Nixon? One egregious action by Felts DOES NOT IMHO forgive or explain sufficiently the entire break-in/cover-up/political espionage perpetrated by an INCUMBENT President.
How would the full disclosure of events EVER have emerged? "Ken Starr" (i.e., Sam Ervin) investigating for twenty years with no final resolution? By then, the Nixon Library would have been finished and his administration totally glorified. BTW: Buchanan attributes Felt with thousands of deaths in Vietnam...of course, Matt Lauer then interrupts so we never hear Pat's reasoning...this is SOOO weird after all these years!
Where did I ever defend Nixon or condone his actions?
Apples and oranges...
I'm just trying to point out that there exist valid reasons to question the prevailing notion that Felt was some paragon of virtue who acted purely out of moral courage.
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On this board, what it generally comes down to is:
Democrats = Good
Republicans = Bad
Like a cheap cling wrap, the arguements are transparent and don't hold water.
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Originally posted by Ellis D. Fleischbach:
Originally posted by O'Mankie:
George Washington could never tell a lie.....evidently.
"Father, I cannot tell a lie...little Tommy Jefferson chopped down the cherry tree."
Now Watergate does not bother me. Does your conscience bother you? [/b]
It was little Tommy was it.....my apologies. Mind you, he was a lousy pres for the environment with that whole 'cherry tree-gate' fiasco.
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Originally posted by BadSushi:
Okay, I'm trying to see your point of view. Now, because you're articulate and old enuf to remember the events, how do you defend "All the President's Men" and the actions of Richard Nixon?
Who was actually called "Richard Dixon" by the news reporter on RTE2 yesterday morning. Gave me a little chuckle I must admit.
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There really was a Nixon impersonator back then who went by the moniker Richard M. Dixon (http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movies/movie.html?v_id=90909).
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
You miss two major points:
1. Felt leaked the info as a personal vendetta. He thought he should have been appointed FBI Director but was passed over by the Nixon administration.
2. As a law enforcement officer his duty was to report crimes to a prosecutor, not to hide behind anonymity and leak info to reporters.
By all appearances, he acted far less out of a sense of "justice" than out of selfish vengeance. Leaking to the Post was a perfect way to embarass the administration and the new FBI director without risking anything.
Originally posted by BadSushi:
Pat Buchanan and Chuck Colson commit professional and moral suicide on NBC this a.m. Now we know their view: Presidents who lie, cheat, steal and corrupt the authority of their office = OK. FBI agents who leak legit investigational info because of their outrage - and belief it will be buried = evil cowards...sigh. Hard to believe those two continue to prosper. Hypocrisy thy name is Buchanan.
[/b]
1. How do you know he did it for personal reasons, are you his psychiatrist? Just because he was passed over doesn't mean that he can not put that aside and show outrage for indefensible acts.
2. How do you know he did not try that route first only to be stopped, or maybe he knew those who were in charge there were in on it so he could not get a fair case.
Both points you bring up are from the guilty's talking points. I have yet to hear Mark Felt's views from his mouth.
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Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
I like Carter as a non-president, but he sucked as a President... and helicoptering into TMI is an example of why. It's called micromanagement.
On the plus side, he was more honest than any President we've had since. The same can't be said about the people he surrounded himself with, unfortunately.
As for Liddy et al... their position seems to be that bucking the system makes you a traitor no matter how bad that system is. They would've made good little Nazis.
Carter is a Nuclear Engineer. He had knowledge that could help to the situation.
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Originally posted by Sir HC:
Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
I like Carter as a non-president, but he sucked as a President... and helicoptering into TMI is an example of why. It's called micromanagement.
On the plus side, he was more honest than any President we've had since. The same can't be said about the people he surrounded himself with, unfortunately.
As for Liddy et al... their position seems to be that bucking the system makes you a traitor no matter how bad that system is. They would've made good little Nazis.
Carter is a Nuclear Engineer. He had knowledge that could help to the situation. [/b]
He's also yer-man if you are looking to buy a bag of peanuts.
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Originally posted by Sir HC:
1. How do you know he did it for personal reasons, are you his psychiatrist? Just because he was passed over doesn't mean that he can not put that aside and show outrage for indefensible acts.
2. How do you know he did not try that route first only to be stopped, or maybe he knew those who were in charge there were in on it so he could not get a fair case.
1. You're right. We don't know exactly.
2. You're right. We don't know exactly.
Both of which are further reason why it is completely acceptable to question his motives.
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okay, I'm not a vrey political person but I like keeping up with current events as best I can.
I understand this "deep throat" gey probably wanted 15 min.s of fame B4 he dies, but would the media have actually ran the story after he died? would anyone cared? or does it go into some imaginary Q/A sheet for a hacker to find? LOL I'd like to know who killed kennedy. wasn't that supposed to be revealed after jakie o died? or amI just not up to date?
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Originally posted by connie191:
I understand this "deep throat" gey probably wanted 15 min.s of fame B4 he dies
i'd disagree with that explanation for how this story came out
Originally posted by connie191:
but would the media have actually ran the story after he died? would anyone cared? or does it go into some imaginary Q/A sheet for a hacker to find?
HAH! yes, the media and the rest of america would have cared about this regardless of whether felt was alive or not ... do you realize the impact watergate had on our politics and society? in addition, guessing deep throat's identity is the ultimate "parlor game" in both journalistic and political fields
Originally posted by connie191:
LOL I'd like to know who killed kennedy. wasn't that supposed to be revealed after jakie o died? or amI just not up to date?
what? do you think the government just said "oswalt isn't the 'real' killer, but we're going to say he is, then when jackie dies we'll announce the real one"? are you insane or just an idiot?
when i see these polls that say something like half of our population can't name the two nations to the north and south of us i always laugh incredulously .... maybe i shouldn't
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Originally posted by HoyaParanoia:
"oswalt isn't the 'real' killer
he is pretty killer
<img src="http://www.onlinesports.com/images/phf-aagi118.jpg" alt=" - " />
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What percent of our population can spell "Oswald" correctly?
Originally posted by HoyaParanoia:
when i see these polls that say something like half of our population can't name the two nations to the north and south of us i always laugh incredulously .... maybe i shouldn't
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Originally posted by HoyaParanoia:
half of our population can't name the two nations to the north and south of us
What are the two to the North, again?
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
What percent of our population can spell "Oswald" correctly?
Originally posted by HoyaParanoia:
when i see these polls that say something like half of our population can't name the two nations to the north and south of us i always laugh incredulously .... maybe i shouldn't
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HAH! what a great freudian slip ... i'm working on a deal for oswalt as we speak, trying to trade chris young and a bat for him, hope it comes through
still doesn't change my point.
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Originally posted by Ellis D. Fleischbach:
Originally posted by HoyaParanoia:
half of our population can't name the two nations to the north and south of us
What are the two to the North, again? [/b]
Canada and New Jersey.
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Originally posted by Ellis D. Fleischbach:
Originally posted by HoyaParanoia:
half of our population can't name the two nations to the north and south of us
What are the two to the North, again? [/b]
Is part of Russia north of the parts of Alaska? That or did some Nordic country claim something in the Artic Ocean as theirs?
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Ellis D. Fleischbach:
What are the two to the North, again? [/b]
Canada and New Jersey.
LOL
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am i the only one that gets dirty thoughts when i hear deep throat? the first time i couldn't stop laughing...boy...did he get a shitty name!
we all know Pat Buchanan and Chuck Colson deep throat...haha fags!
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It was interesting when they would have several guys who were slammed by the Watergate scandal prattling on about how the man was a coward and just bad without having someone who would stand up for hwat he did. Pretty biased.
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Originally posted by flawd101:
am i the only one that gets dirty thoughts when i hear deep throat? the first time i couldn't stop laughing...boy...did he get a shitty name!
we all know Pat Buchanan and Chuck Colson deep throat...haha fags!
Obviously you and Mankie think alike! Did your mom ever tell you about Linda Lovelace?
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What came first...the movie or watergate?
BTW...how's that fat, obnoxious, bigoted, drug-addicted, arrogant, ignorant, loud-mouthed nazi of a talk radio host doing with his legal problems, who has a name that sounds like a serious bowel issue. "I have a touch of the rush-limbaughs"
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Originally posted by O'Mankie:
What came first...the movie or watergate?
movie
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Originally posted by O'Mankie:
BTW...how's that fat, obnoxious, bigoted, drug-addicted, arrogant, ignorant, loud-mouthed nazi of a talk radio host doing with his legal problems, who has a name that sounds like a serious bowel issue. "I have a touch of the rush-limbaughs"
i heard something about a blender, 8 yr old, and him swallowing his own semen...
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Originally posted by HoyaParanoia:
Originally posted by O'Mankie:
What came first...the movie or watergate?
movie [/b]
What year was the Watergate built, again?
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Originally posted by Ellis D. Fleischbach:
Originally posted by HoyaParanoia:
Originally posted by O'Mankie:
What came first...the movie or watergate?
movie [/b]
What year was the Watergate built, again? [/b]
67, i thought he was referring to the scandal, not the hotel ... movie came out in 72