930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: fmtico on June 02, 2005, 01:38:00 pm
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OK, my name is Mike Fekula and this is my first time posting here, but I am far from being new to the 930 Club. A few of you may know me from my
years at WMUC-FM in College Park. However, I was also a very frequent patron of the club down on F St. from 1981 to around the mid-80's and
occasionally thereafter.
I guess mine is going to be a very small minority viewpoint on the film as there seems to be near unanimous opinion on this list that everyone was very happy with it. While I feel that the film has many strengths and some entertaining moments (especially Lisa White's description of the research that went into the club's famous odor) there are some fatal flaws to the film that limit its value.
First of all, this is not really a film about the history of the 930 Club per se, as much as it is a history of the 930 Clubs' relationship with Dischord and the DC punks. That is a valid subject indeed, but not representative of the entire history of the club. And before anybody
goes accusing me of pissing on a DC icon, let me say that I do respect the work of Ian Mackaye, Dischord, and the local punks. Their contribution has been very significant in many ways you already know about, but it is far from the only contribution that any local musicians have made. I simply do not feel that there was a balanced view of the contributions others have made.
Looking at the overall formatting of the club, even after the punks were allowed back in with their all ages shows, we are not even talking about 20% of the total shows that have ever been produced at the club, and I am being generous when I say 20%. I would be surprised if punk was even 10% of the shows that took place there. So even if you want to argue that punk was the most important music ever played in the history of DC music, it is an exaggeration to focus so much time on it in a film like this. What about the rest of us who went to all kinds of shows including punk?; who supported the music, pretty much regardless of who was playing it and what genre it came from?; who saw indy pop, techno, industrial, reggae, avant-garde jazz, etc etc and valued all of it equally?
However, the most glaring omissions were some of the people who worked there and were left out. It is absolutely, utterly inexcusable to do any kind of history of the 930 Club without even mentioning the contribution of Lamont Prince. As someone who was there from close to the beginning, I know for fact from mine own eyes that Lamont was crucial to the early success of the club. If you are going to recognize the contributions of Dotie Disanto and Mark Holmes (and justifiably so) you have to talk about Lamont as well. He was one of those guys like Chad, Norm, and others who would do whatever it takes to make a show happen. I often saw him DJing, working the door, tending bar, helping bands load in and out, helping with set changes, and then mopping up the floor at closing. Sometimes all in one night. As the DJ manager, he had quite an influence in setting the musical direction of the club and he did it for more than ten years, at least.
Yes, I know he has been out of the country, but he has still been available through his own website and through other friends and associates who are around here. And while maybe there was no intention to disrespect him by the filmakers, I frankly find it to be totally inadequate research by the filmakers if someone like Lamont is left out of the story.
The same could be said for others. Dotie Disanto was recognized and mention was made of her first husband, John Bowers who bought the building at 930 F St. But what about Dotie's second husband Charles? Much of what I just said about Lamont could also apply to Charles in regards to all the hard work he did, doing whatever it takes to make an event happen. Charles and Lamont practically lived there in the early years.
Bottom line: when I was most actively attending there early on, there were four people who I saw working there most often: Dotie, Charles, Mark Holmes, and Lamont Prince. Two of them were left out of the story and it is a big mistake.
And what about Alyson Palmer? Leaving aside the fact that she is probably the most recognizable employee the club ever had, she was also a bartender there for years, AND her band Betty has out lasted nearly every other local band on the scene including most of the Dischord bands except for perhaps Fugazi. She was recently featured in the Style section of the Washington Post (on April 27th) for her work with Mamapalooza. You can check their history and current projects at: http://www.hellobetty.com/ (http://www.hellobetty.com/) And no, I have no business or relationship connection with the band. I just think they deserve their props.
Furthermore, I have always been totally pissed off at this endless rehashing of the Punks vs. New Wavers argument. What I am going to say
here may sound like opinion, but I consider it to be fact: the VAST majority of us who attended the 930 Club enjoyed music from both camps and WE DIDN'T GIVE TWO FUCKS ABOUT THE CONFLICT!! As far as I was concerned, that whole argument sounded like a bunch of teenage boys having a "who's got the biggest dick" contest. It may have mattered a lot to the die hards of one persuasion or another, but to me and most others, it was so badly overblown. Unfortunatley, the filmakers fell for it. Why? Because Chris Haskett said so.
And another thing that was always exagerated back in the day was that whole Straight Edge religion we used to hear about ad nauseum. Yeah sure, while the punks were living their lifestyle upstairs, the downstairs men's room was a hash den. You could get a contact high just walking down the steps of the place. Sorry, the vast majority of us, including more than a few of the punks, were never such good Boy Scouts, but you would not have known that from watching this film.
OK, so again, the film does have a lot to offer. It was good to see Chuck Brown interviewed along with Peter Buck and the others. Seth Hurwitz had some interesting points to make about the club and what it all meant; a very worthwhile summation and an emotional one at that. The film footage of bands playing was very worthwhile. And yes, as someone said earlier on the other thread, there was indeed a sense from watching the film that we were a part of something very special; something that may be difficult if not impossible to reproduce again.
But that is my point: some of the most important parts of the history of the club including some of it's most important people were left out. I realize that there are time limits to any film; that you can't turn it into a PBS 10-part documentary on the history of the club. None the less, when we are getting so much face time with Ian Mackaye and so many other people are being left out, I just feel that a more balanced view of the club history could have been produced.
I mean no disrespect in saying these things to you, but I do feel that, however unintentional, there are people like Lamont Prince that were disrespected and it could have been avoided.
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Thanks for your viewpoint... I enjoyed the film in the same way I enjoyed recently seeing the Rodney Bingenheimer documentary "Mayor of Sunset Strip". Both about subjects who I heard bits and pieces about but having never lived in LA and not in DC until 97, they served as nice primers on the 9:30 club and Rodney. In both it was great learning more about these people and places. And the influence on the scenes in DC, LA and beyond. I'm sure in both much was missed or glossed over, but I wouldn't know it. And I too thought Ian got a bit to much play, but he'll help sell the film. I would have enjoyed the film less if it had been done amateurist, but it was well pulled together and told the story it setout to tell.
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You make some very valid points. It sounds like you were much more heavily involved in the early days than most of us here. I doubt many people here have any idea who Lamont is. It certainly sounds like a glaring omission that he was left out.
As for the straight-edge stuff, well...the underage thing was a really big deal. They had to talk about that. And if you get Ian talking about underage kids at shows, you're gonna get an earful about straight-edge. I agree, it wasn't as prevalent as they make it seem. Exaggeration is part of the fun of nostalgia. :)
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i know at least one rock/blues guitarist played there, because he's a very distant relative of mine and his name was on one schedules they kept showing...
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I don't remember who Lamont Prince was exactly though I assume that I saw him at one of the times I was at the shows back in the 80s. Could you link to his site, google was no help.
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Originally posted by Sir HC:
I don't remember who Lamont Prince was exactly though I assume that I saw him at one of the times I was at the shows back in the 80s. Could you link to his site, google was no help.
http://www.lamontprince.com/ (http://www.lamontprince.com/)
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Originally posted by Sir HC:
I don't remember who Lamont Prince was exactly though I assume that I saw him at one of the times I was at the shows back in the 80s. Could you link to his site, google was no help.
Lamont started working at the club in 1980 or 1981 and was there until sometime in 1993. He was the head DJ as well as publicity and marketing director. So he played a large role in establishing and furthering the image and direction of the club.
You may have seen his alter ego, Mutha Dearest, hosting a gong show or two. She also hosted the 12th Anniversary party, the one where 42 bands played in one night. The ad tagline, which Lamont created, read:
"the 9:30 Club celebrates 12 years of bad attitudes and no cover bands! Come join us as your favorite local bands play their favorite cover songs"
That show was such a blast, it was free and there was a line around the corner the whole night. We had everybody from Thud to Velocity Girl to Lucy Brown to Testicular Momentum to Edsel to god knows who else.
Lamont was a mentor to me when I started working at the club in 1991 and remains one of my "dearest" friends. I do agree that his perspective and insight would have been a great asset to the 930 F Street film.
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"She also hosted the 12th Anniversary party, the one where 42 bands played in one night."
I was there! For real! Remember Thud Bob?
APPOGGIATURA!!...
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Originally posted by the Pharmacist:
"She also hosted the 12th Anniversary party, the one where 42 bands played in one night."
I was there! For real! Remember Thud Bob?
APPOGGIATURA!!...
Thud Bob was at the 25th Anniv to see the movie, it was great to see him. I'm glad Jean Paul mentioned them in the film.
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I haven't seen it yet, but if it focuses that heavily on Dischord and straight-edge, that's a shame. They were hardly the most important thing going on there, and as for straight-edge, it was a bar, dammit!
Oh, and I just had a delicious thought: imagine if those offices they're building there end up being haunted by the same stench!
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Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
Oh, and I just had a delicious thought
me too!
<img src="http://snltranscripts.jt.org/95/pics/95fmono1.jpg" alt=" - " />
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speaking of the old 930 club....
did that guy Jared from the band Chemlab actually own the 930 club at one point?
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I think he just hung out there so much (and worked there) that it seemed like he did, but I'll leave the answer to more knowledgeable people....
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No, it was the other Jared from the Subway commercials. He brought the heavy to heavy music.
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Subway Jared was a menace when the slam-dancing got going!
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Originally posted by Got Haggis?:
speaking of the old 930 club....
did that guy Jared from the band Chemlab actually own the 930 club at one point?
No.
Jared was the night manager [and frequent DJ] for a number of years in the late '80s-1991 but he never owned the club.
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Mike,
Good to hear from you. It's been a while, huh? Still any connection to MUC? My wife just started attending UMUC. I don't think she'll be spinning at WMUC anytime, though.
Thanks for yr feedback on the movie. In my twisted way, I was kinda hurt nobody interviewed me for the movie. What am I, some kinda FNG? I've only been spinning at the club since the end of 1983!
I got to the club late, on the night of the reunion, and only saw the last 10-15 minutes, so I can't judge yr comments, but if it is a shame if Lamont isn't mentioned.
Did anybody mention Kevin Doran? He was the head DJ when I started. And how could you forget Kim Gilogly (sp?), and Wannabe Dub?
Good to hear Jared got a mention. Did anybody recall his first night as manager? Actually, I'm not sure I remember this correctly, but I think his first night was a Butth*le Surfers show, and it was when Gibby started his rubbing alcohol trick, and everybody freaked out, when he was lighting fires everywhere, and somebody suuposedly started a fire in one of the dumpsters out in the alley behind the club, and everything just got outta hand. A real "baptism by fire," as it were. At least that's how I remembered it.
I guess I'll just need to see this thing somehow.
Cheers,
Tommy B
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Originally posted by DJ Tommy B:
Actually, I'm not sure I remember this correctly, but I think his first night was a Butth*le Surfers show, and it was when Gibby started his rubbing alcohol trick, and everybody freaked out, when he was lighting fires everywhere, and somebody suuposedly started a fire in one of the dumpsters out in the alley behind the club, and everything just got outta hand. A real "baptism by fire," as it were. At least that's how I remembered it.
I remember that show. That's pretty much how I remember it going down.Nobody was sure if the smoke was part of the act or what. They had the crazy day glo belly dancer as well,I believe.That crazy Gibby!!
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Gibby Gibby, oh, got to go-go now!
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there's some joke/story/fable about a blind man and an elepehant's tail whereby that is his perception of the animal...pardon my brain cells (or lack thereof) for not remembering it exactly
but the point is that if this was somebody's impressions of the 930, then that cannot be argued with
fact is, it was many things to many people, and still is
I really enjoyed this version...perhaps other people will make the effort to tell theirs someday, but these guys are the ones who actually did
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Originally posted by DJ Tommy B:
but I think his first night was a Butth*le Surfers show, and it was when Gibby started his rubbing alcohol trick, and everybody freaked out, when he was lighting fires everywhere
Is that when he would fill an upside-down cymbal with rubbing alcohol, light it on fire and start banging away on it, spreading fire everywhere? I was at that show (or one of those shows), about 2 feet from the stage. I'll admit I was a little concerned. But looking back, it's one of my favorite old-club memories.
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He would also pour the alcohol on his arm. Works well if you have no hair (read fuses) on your arm. I forget if it was there or college park where someone came on stage and took away his cymbal. Just remember you could feel the heat across the room.
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Originally posted by DJ Tommy B:
[QB] Mike,
Good to hear from you. It's been a while, huh? Still any connection to MUC? My wife just started attending UMUC. I don't think she'll be spinning at WMUC anytime, though.
Still there on Saturdays. There are a bunch of us old war horses there including Dominic.
Did anybody mention Kevin Doran? He was the head DJ when I started. And how could you forget Kim Gilogly (sp?), and Wannabe Dub?
Oh My God, Wannabe Dub! There is another name. I have no idea whatever happened to her. I thought she went to NYC, but my old brain may be confabulating that. And Kim is another one. I have no idea whatever happened to most of these folks. The old saying is, Life Happens.
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Mike,
Glad to hear you and Dominic are still plying the airwaves.
Seth,
Good point. The story is that three blind guys encounter an elephant, and try to figure out what it is. The guy at the front feels the trunk, and declares it's a snake. The second guy feels one of the elephants legs, and declares it's a tree, and the last guy feels the tail, and declares it's a rope.
And then the guy behind the elephant picks up a pile of elephant crap with his shovel and complains about how horrible his job is. One of the blind guys asks, "Why don't you get a new job,?" to which the shovel guys responds, "What, and leave show business??"
Well, I guess I got that story a little mixeded up as well, but you were right on target about the club, it has been a different thing for all the people who've been involved in the place.
Cheers,
DJ Tommy B
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I have to add to the disappointment being sounded here. Although I think the filmmakers did a good job covering the founding of the club, and then the moving of the club, they left a big gap in the middle, which is what I think we're all talking about. The best I can figure is that they just were too young or not around to enjoy it all, so they didnâ??t know who to ask.
I saw everyone from DRI to Ice T to Trent Reznor to David J. (I never saw Fugazi there.) What about that nasty dressing room? What about those trippy videos? And indeed, the mischief in the basement that included all the sex and drugs that goes along with rock and roll. The staff there was always great to me â?? they bounced a guy for me once, and I always felt safe there.
Ah well â?? I did enjoy Lisaâ??s smell story, and the rat stories were great, too. I hope thereâ??s another way the peopleâ??s history of the old 9:30 Club gets out there one dayâ?¦
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i saw the movie sunday night. enjoyed it.
something i got from it that maybe someone here can clarify:
"straight-edge"
i knew kids growing up in miami, fl who were "straight-edge". obviously it grew into a well-known movement of sorts...but i think it's really interesting if it all stemmed from the kids just wanting to get into 21+ shows, and not some "i wanna keep my body clean and pure" ethos?
like if 930 F was all ages from the get-go, straight-edge would've never existed and hundreds (thousands?) of kids across the states would've lead regular, alcohol-fueled high school lives?
pretty crazy.
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Seriously, yawl, if you want a fuller story of what the 930 was really like, find that Mark Jenkins story that he wrote for the City Pap when the old club shut its doors. It's in their archives and worth the five bux. He went farther than anyone else has to capturing it all.
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Originally posted by dcgrrl:
I have to add to the disappointment being sounded here. Although I think the filmmakers did a good job covering the founding of the club, and then the moving of the club, they left a big gap in the middle, which is what I think we're all talking about.
I saw everyone from DRI to Ice T to Trent Reznor to David J. (I never saw Fugazi there.) What about that nasty dressing room? What about those trippy videos?
Geez, I must be incredibly easy to please. Though certainly the sheer nostalgia of the club made me really, really happy (I saw the film Sunday night at AFI as well), I thought it was well done and a good document of the club as well.
I think the point that those folks who have a lot of criticism with the film is missing is that the mission of a documentary like this is to reveal how the club was special and had its own unique story and purpose. While it was a cool venue, it wasn't special because all kinds of cool bands played there before they hit it big. It's not even special that bands who couldn't get other gigs in town played there. MANY cities had that one place to showcase emerging national acts, and I'll bet nearly all of them had nasty dressing rooms and sex and drugs in the basement...
What's special about the 9:30 Club is the role it played in the town and its particularly integral role as not just a place to see music but in the actual development of very specific and original local scenes. If you didn't get that from the interviews with Dodi on the whole scene going on in the Atlantic Building and the owners' intent in the first decade of the club, I think you're missing out on the most unique and interesting part of the club's story. That such a grand, well-run and kick-ass club has grown out of that beginning is pretty damn awesome and quite an achievement, if you ask me.
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originally posted by Bags
What's special about the 9:30 Club is the role it played in the town and its particularly integral role as not just a place to see music but in the actual development of very specific and original local scenes. If you didn't get that from the interviews with Dodi on the whole scene going on in the Atlantic Building and the owners' intent in the first decade of the club, I think you're missing out on the most unique and interesting part of the club's story. That such a grand, well-run and kick-ass club has grown out of that beginning is pretty damn awesome and quite an achievement, if you ask me.
Unfortunately, I didn't get that from the documentary, perhaps - 1) because the interviews with Dodi were pretty shabby technically. 2) because I was overwhelmed with Ian's interviews and could hardly remember anything anyone else said.
The doc really seemed to focus on Dodi's "art rock" vision compromising with Ian and his straight edge buddies, then Seth's smart business management. But it doesn't talk about the other music scenes in the city that it did help nurture - dangerous, as it opens the film talking about how barren DC seems to outsiders.
You're right, it is awesome that it has moved from such a lowly, rat-infested, smelly pit to one of the most highly rated clubs on the east coast, but you're also right, you are easy to please in comparison with some of us. I admit I'm being picky. But I spent more of my college hours at the 9:30 club than in class, and I learned to love the place and the people and DC music. I can't help but demand excellence.
It's all out of love, man - peace.