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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: showlistdc on June 03, 2014, 03:33:37 pm

Title: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: showlistdc on June 03, 2014, 03:33:37 pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/express/wp/2014/06/03/crowd-funded-concerts-coming-to-d-c/
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: azaghal1981 on June 03, 2014, 03:44:14 pm
Disgusting.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: Julian, Hyperpop SLUTFUCK on June 03, 2014, 03:58:18 pm
I refuse to attend P2P concerts. Sadly RVA is overrun with venues that do this.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: atomic on June 03, 2014, 04:14:58 pm
I think 8x10 in Baltimore requires you to sell so many tickets before they will book you.  I guess that is why I have never been there.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: azaghal1981 on June 03, 2014, 04:19:51 pm
It's the Lambert door polling practice on steroids.

Only here, you don't get to tell the polling person "I'm here to see everybody and your doing this is a detriment to the local music scene."
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: StoneTheCrow on June 03, 2014, 05:20:37 pm
I think 8x10 in Baltimore requires you to sell so many tickets before they will book you.  I guess that is why I have never been there.

8X10 is still around?

Never been there, either.  Presumed they were history.

Oh, and crowd-funding a show is bullshit.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: azaghal1981 on June 03, 2014, 05:28:09 pm
I know they became a jamband spot and called themselves The Funk Box for a while. Then I think it changed hands. No clue as to what they book now.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: MindCage on June 04, 2014, 09:50:57 am
Will never do pay to play.

The Pinch is a tiny space as well, so that doesn't really help anyone out when trying to sell your tickets and pack the place. The bulk of the space will be taken over by music gear from all the bands :)
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: atomic on June 04, 2014, 09:58:32 am
I think 8x10 in Baltimore requires you to sell so many tickets before they will book you.  I guess that is why I have never been there.

8X10 is still around?

Never been there, either.  Presumed they were history.

Oh, and crowd-funding a show is bullshit.

I just checked and they are still going strong.  Spirit Family Reunion is playing there tomorrow night.   I saw them at Newport Folk Festival last year.  So at least one band I have heard of is playing there.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: Got Haggis? on June 04, 2014, 10:11:39 am
I think 8x10 in Baltimore requires you to sell so many tickets before they will book you.  I guess that is why I have never been there.

brass monkey in fells point as well
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: Hexenjagd on June 04, 2014, 11:30:23 am
I am not going to support this, and all local bands should boycott it and play shows at the other 100 + venues in the area. 



Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: SeriousSideFX lııllı|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|llıl on June 04, 2014, 01:23:49 pm
  Spirit Family Reunion is playing there tomorrow night.   

BTW...these guys are fantastic and highly recommended

been singing Put the backseat down (http://spiritfamilyreunion.bandcamp.com/track/put-the-backseat-down)' to my daughters for months (and before I get parenting advice from James or someone else...the hooking up reference is lost by the 7 and under crowd)
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: azaghal1981 on June 04, 2014, 01:49:59 pm
http://dcist.com/2014/06/the_problem_with_rabbl_crowd-fund.php

All that really needs to be said here.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: Hexenjagd on June 04, 2014, 02:12:30 pm
Quote
?We?re looking to find a bunch of cool local bands who maybe haven?t played out that much yet,? Rabbl co-founder Erik Needham tells Express.
So if they don't play out much, then how can they have a local fanbase that will vote for them to play?  Wouldn't the "winner" always be a band that already is popular in the local scene? 
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: atomic on June 04, 2014, 02:23:04 pm
Quote
?We?re looking to find a bunch of cool local bands who maybe haven?t played out that much yet,? Rabbl co-founder Erik Needham tells Express.
So if they don't play out much, then how can they have a local fanbase that will vote for them to play?  Wouldn't the "winner" always be a band that already is popular in the local scene? 

Friends and Family + Coworkers.   That is how these things work.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: StoneTheCrow on June 04, 2014, 04:18:09 pm
I avoid bands with the word "Family" in their name. Not fair or smart but I do.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: Hexenjagd on June 04, 2014, 04:46:00 pm
Not even Akron/Family?
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: atomic on June 04, 2014, 04:56:52 pm
I avoid bands with the word "Family" in their name. Not fair or smart but I do.

I have been listening to the Carter Family because of your post.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: azaghal1981 on June 04, 2014, 04:59:02 pm
Family Fodder were pretty incredible.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: atomic on June 04, 2014, 05:02:25 pm
Sly & the Family Stone is up next.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: ggw on June 04, 2014, 05:16:56 pm
(http://www.prlog.org/12009072-aston-family-man-barrett-receives-lifetime-achievement-award.jpg)
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: vansmack on June 04, 2014, 05:25:31 pm
Man I miss The Director.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: sweetcell on June 04, 2014, 05:55:09 pm
lol
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: StoneTheCrow on June 04, 2014, 07:58:40 pm
Sly & the Family Stone is up next.

Ok - that's the exception.  Thanks for keeping me honest.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: azaghal1981 on June 05, 2014, 08:30:10 am
I figured at least Kosmo would back me up on the Family Fodder.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: kosmo vinyl on June 05, 2014, 08:49:24 am
Not familiar with Family Fodder, but The Loud Family is ace
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: Yada on June 05, 2014, 09:06:49 am
Any band names with the following names should probably be avoided: all-stars, convention, reunion, family, funk.

Edit: And before someone says, "the funk brothers," i'm talking about modern era bands.

Additional edit: other names to avoid: alliance or good.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: azaghal1981 on June 05, 2014, 09:58:11 am
I like this band. (http://jawbreakerreunion.bandcamp.com)

;D
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: atomic on June 05, 2014, 10:03:55 am
Any band names with the following names should probably be avoided: all-stars, convention, reunion, family, funk.

Edit: And before someone says, "the funk brothers," i'm talking about modern era bands.

Fairport Convention, Parliment Funkadelic,  Grand Funk Railroad.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: Yada on June 05, 2014, 10:06:32 am
Any band names with the following names should probably be avoided: all-stars, convention, reunion, family, funk.

Edit: And before someone says, "the funk brothers," i'm talking about modern era bands.

Fairport Convention, Parliment Funkadelic,  Grand Funk Railroad.

Reading comprehension, how does it work?
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: atomic on June 05, 2014, 10:07:21 am
Jackson Family
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: atomic on June 05, 2014, 10:10:19 am
Any band names with the following names should probably be avoided: all-stars, convention, reunion, family, funk.

Edit: And before someone says, "the funk brothers," i'm talking about modern era bands.

Fairport Convention, Parliment Funkadelic,  Grand Funk Railroad.

Reading comprehension, how does it work?

Well I don't know what you mean by modern era.  I would think anything post 1955 would be considered modern.  Like anything not only released on 78.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: Yada on June 05, 2014, 10:16:18 am
Any band names with the following names should probably be avoided: all-stars, convention, reunion, family, funk.

Edit: And before someone says, "the funk brothers," i'm talking about modern era bands.

Fairport Convention, Parliment Funkadelic,  Grand Funk Railroad.

Reading comprehension, how does it work?

Well I don't know what you mean by modern era.  I would think anything post 1955 would be considered modern.  Like anything not only released on 78.

Considering classic rock stations play music from the 80s, i'd say I disagree.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: atomic on June 05, 2014, 10:22:45 am
Any band names with the following names should probably be avoided: all-stars, convention, reunion, family, funk.

Edit: And before someone says, "the funk brothers," i'm talking about modern era bands.

Fairport Convention, Parliment Funkadelic,  Grand Funk Railroad.

Reading comprehension, how does it work?

Well I don't know what you mean by modern era.  I would think anything post 1955 would be considered modern.  Like anything not only released on 78.

Considering classic rock stations play music from the 80s, i'd say I disagree.

Well I don't listen to classic rock stations.  There is a difference between classic rock (which is usually shit music) and pre-modern era.  I would consider Carter Family pre-modern era.  Modern Art pre-dates all the bands I listed. 
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: Yada on June 05, 2014, 10:23:48 am
Any band names with the following names should probably be avoided: all-stars, convention, reunion, family, funk.

Edit: And before someone says, "the funk brothers," i'm talking about modern era bands.

Fairport Convention, Parliment Funkadelic,  Grand Funk Railroad.

Reading comprehension, how does it work?

Well I don't know what you mean by modern era.  I would think anything post 1955 would be considered modern.  Like anything not only released on 78.

Considering classic rock stations play music from the 80s, i'd say I disagree.

Well I don't listen to classic rock stations.  There is a difference between classic rock (which is usually shit music) and pre-modern era.  I would consider Carter Family pre-modern era.  Modern Art pre-dates all the bands I listed. 

You trollin', son?
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: sweetcell on June 05, 2014, 10:35:48 am
the Easy Star All-Stars released their first album in 2003.  is that "modern" enough?
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: Yada on June 05, 2014, 10:43:58 am
the Easy Star All-Stars released their first album in 2003.  is that "modern" enough?

I would say yes, that is modern enough.

Also, I've never heard this band, but based on their name, I bet they suck!
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: Vas Deferens on June 05, 2014, 09:00:32 pm
how is to pay-to-play when bands don't pay to play?

who coined the term?
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: Julian, Hyperpop SLUTFUCK on June 05, 2014, 09:09:35 pm
how is to pay-to-play when bands don't pay to play?

who coined the term?
IIRC, it goes back to an older-variant of this model where bands were required to purchase xx # of tickets to get a spot on the bill. If they were then able to sell them themselves, great, but if not, venue didn't care because the band paid for them. The idea that bands should do the primary promotion and ticket sale responsibilities and assume all risk associated with the event (which is the venue's job, honestly) is probably the more insulting part of this.
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: hutch on June 05, 2014, 09:44:21 pm
how is to pay-to-play when bands don't pay to play?

who coined the term?
IIRC, it goes back to an older-variant of this model where bands were required to purchase xx # of tickets to get a spot on the bill. If they were then able to sell them themselves, great, but if not, venue didn't care because the band paid for them. The idea that bands should do the primary promotion and ticket sale responsibilities and assume all risk associated with the event (which is the venue's job, honestly) is probably the more insulting part of this.

I don't see it as insulting at all..if your band sucks or has no following and the only way you can get a place to play is that way then you do it if you want to play live at a place that is not like your garage...its not like its not optional! If you're a band with, you know, an actual fanbase that pays to see you live, then you're never going to have to do this because you'll get regular bookings...

I really don't see the problem..... I might be missing something though...
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: showlistdc on June 06, 2014, 10:26:49 am
http://bandwidth.wamu.org/rabbl-roused-is-rabbl-promoting-pay-to-play/
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: atomic on June 06, 2014, 11:58:14 am
how is to pay-to-play when bands don't pay to play?

who coined the term?
IIRC, it goes back to an older-variant of this model where bands were required to purchase xx # of tickets to get a spot on the bill. If they were then able to sell them themselves, great, but if not, venue didn't care because the band paid for them. The idea that bands should do the primary promotion and ticket sale responsibilities and assume all risk associated with the event (which is the venue's job, honestly) is probably the more insulting part of this.

I don't see it as insulting at all..if your band sucks or has no following and the only way you can get a place to play is that way then you do it if you want to play live at a place that is not like your garage...its not like its not optional! If you're a band with, you know, an actual fanbase that pays to see you live, then you're never going to have to do this because you'll get regular bookings...

I really don't see the problem..... I might be missing something though...

Well how are you supposed to get a following if you can't get a place to play.  Your logic makes no sense.  The Ottobar seems to let unknown local bands open for national acts all the time.  That is part of what makes it a good venue.  The play to play venues tend to be places that I never attend shows. And if you pay to play it is just going to be your family and friends at the show so it isn't going to help you gain new fans. 
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: azaghal1981 on June 06, 2014, 02:37:40 pm
This.
how is to pay-to-play when bands don't pay to play?

who coined the term?
IIRC, it goes back to an older-variant of this model where bands were required to purchase xx # of tickets to get a spot on the bill. If they were then able to sell them themselves, great, but if not, venue didn't care because the band paid for them. The idea that bands should do the primary promotion and ticket sale responsibilities and assume all risk associated with the event (which is the venue's job, honestly) is probably the more insulting part of this.

I don't see it as insulting at all..if your band sucks or has no following and the only way you can get a place to play is that way then you do it if you want to play live at a place that is not like your garage...its not like its not optional! If you're a band with, you know, an actual fanbase that pays to see you live, then you're never going to have to do this because you'll get regular bookings...

I really don't see the problem..... I might be missing something though...

Well how are you supposed to get a following if you can't get a place to play.  Your logic makes no sense.  The Ottobar seems to let unknown local bands open for national acts all the time.  That is part of what makes it a good venue.  The play to play venues tend to be places that I never attend shows. And if you pay to play it is just going to be your family and friends at the show so it isn't going to help you gain new fans. 
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: azaghal1981 on June 06, 2014, 02:39:48 pm
Hahaha I wasn't expecting anyone to quote my tweet.  One would've thought I would've gotten a heads-up but I guess once something is publicly accessible, it's fair game.

http://bandwidth.wamu.org/rabbl-roused-is-rabbl-promoting-pay-to-play/
Title: Re: Pay-to-Play (although they call it "Crowd-Funded")
Post by: MindCage on June 19, 2014, 02:01:37 pm
how is to pay-to-play when bands don't pay to play?

who coined the term?
IIRC, it goes back to an older-variant of this model where bands were required to purchase xx # of tickets to get a spot on the bill. If they were then able to sell them themselves, great, but if not, venue didn't care because the band paid for them. The idea that bands should do the primary promotion and ticket sale responsibilities and assume all risk associated with the event (which is the venue's job, honestly) is probably the more insulting part of this.

I don't see it as insulting at all..if your band sucks or has no following and the only way you can get a place to play is that way then you do it if you want to play live at a place that is not like your garage...its not like its not optional! If you're a band with, you know, an actual fanbase that pays to see you live, then you're never going to have to do this because you'll get regular bookings...

I really don't see the problem..... I might be missing something though...

Well how are you supposed to get a following if you can't get a place to play.  Your logic makes no sense.  The Ottobar seems to let unknown local bands open for national acts all the time.  That is part of what makes it a good venue.  The play to play venues tend to be places that I never attend shows. And if you pay to play it is just going to be your family and friends at the show so it isn't going to help you gain new fans. 

I think the pay to play model ideally is suppose to work when it's a high profile headliner. Then it defeats the purpose for the local band to actually have people buying tickets to see them, and more about just being some ticket broker for the venue? You're hustling tickets to anyone that you know would attend the show anyway, but to get the tickets through you.

No thanks!