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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: Venerable Bede on October 15, 2003, 09:42:00 am
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:)
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<img src="http://reds.enquirer.com/2002/04/21/slide_150x200.jpg" alt=" - " />
Shouldn't you be looking for this guy?
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It was the second out..what's the big deal?
Nobody gave the O's any sympathy when the exact same thing happened to them a few years ago.
Oh well, at least the Cubs will have an excuse if they choke it big time tonight.
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I heard this morning that, after being escorted out of the stadium with armed guards and in a *change of clothes* to protect him, the Chicago papers printed his name.
Look, he's an idiot, but when a ball is going foul, fans reach for it. Tough call. I feel for the guy and his short life (unless he leaves the Windy City forever), even though he's an ASSHOLE!!!!!
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Originally posted by mankie:
It was the second out..what's the big deal?
Mank, the whole thing fell to shit right after that. Of course it's a big deal; you can't discount the difference it might have made in the game.
By the way, has anyone on the board ever *met* a Marlins fan? I'm from Fla, and I haven't.
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The guy didn't score 8 runs.
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Originally posted by Crocker Jarmon:
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It's good to see that somebody is already making money on this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2759599276&category=25011 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2759599276&category=25011)
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it's the second out of the inning. . .as one of the columnists on espn.com said, the fan unlocked the door to allow the 8 runs. . .alou catches the ball, 2 outs. . .so what if pudge hits a single to allow pierre to score. . .cubs still up 3-1, and the whole game changes. next batter, ground ball to the shortstop. . .3rd out. shortstop had to make the play to get at least one out though. . .instead of 8 runs, florida would have scored 3, and made it a tie game. that was one of the worst things i've seen in baseball since game 6 of the 1986 world series.
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Originally posted by mankie:
Nobody gave the O's any sympathy when the exact same thing happened to them a few years ago.
no one liked the o's because no one liked brady anderson's side burns.
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Shit happens, the Cubs gave up 8 runs, no matter how it is painted, it is not the fan's fault.
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
that was one of the worst things i've seen in baseball since game 6 of the 1986 world series.
Okay. I give up. What happened in game 6 of the '86 WS?
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http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/worstcalls/010730.html (http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/worstcalls/010730.html)
So where should this fall on this list, unfortunately the top two hurt teams I follow.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Okay. I give up. What happened in game 6 of the '86 WS?
Bill Buckner
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Originally posted by ratioci nation:
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/worstcalls/010730.html (http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/worstcalls/010730.html)
So where should this fall on this list, unfortunately the top two hurt teams I follow.
you went to mizzou??? how about that game last weekend?
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
you went to mizzou??? how about that game last weekend?
no, just from Missouri, great game last weekend, I saw a replay of the game after knowing the score and thought the score I saw was wrong because Missouri started scoring so late
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Originally posted by ratioci nation:
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
you went to mizzou??? how about that game last weekend?
no, just from Missouri, great game last weekend, I saw a replay of the game after knowing the score and thought the score I saw was wrong because Missouri started scoring so late [/b]
my g/f graduated from mizzou, her sister goes to colorado, so we're going out to boulder for the colorado mizzou game. i went to baylor, so i had a fine ol' time making fun of colorado last week.
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Originally posted by Bagster:
Mank, the whole thing fell to shit right after that. Of course it's a big deal; you can't discount the difference it might have made in the game.
By the way, has anyone on the board ever *met* a Marlins fan? I'm from Fla, and I haven't. [/b]
Was it the same fan that ran out onto the field and tripped up the short stop so that he made a bollocks of that ball right after that?
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But that play, Mank, didn't allow for all 8 runs. If there'd been two outs going into the next batter, it likely would not have gone that far.
If it had been a footie fan screwing up a play for Manchester, you'd have pulled of your skin by now.
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Originally posted by Bagster:
But that play, Mank, didn't allow for all 8 runs. If there'd been two outs going into the next batter, it likely would not have gone that far.
If it had been a footie fan screwing up a play for Manchester, you'd have pulled of your skin by now.
It could never happen in a football game because once the ball goes out it's dead, so there's no way a fan can get in the way unless he/she legs it on the field, at which point the game is stopped anyway.
I just think the media and the Cubs fans are making more out of the incident that it merits....because it's the "curse of the Cubs" whoooooooo!
:eek:
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Sorry Mank, but I have to disagree with you.
Two things, you never give the pros an extra out. By eliminating that fan's actions, there would have been two outs. The next pitch was a wild pitch that walked the guy, setting up first and third with one out instead of a runner on second with two outs. That never would have happened.
Next, Gonzo's error. Well, had it been a runner on second and two outs the only play was to first to end the game and that would have done it. He was thinking double play and rushed it and that's why he dropped a gimmee ground ball.
Even if Gonzo drops the ball, Conine's sacrifice is taken out of the picture and it would have been tied at worst.
The only other person who I think should share the blame is Dusty Baker. It's the eighth inning and your pitcher has thrown 113 pitches - how in the hell do you not have somebody warming up in the bullpen? Once the first guy got on, fine with a two run lead you can let Prior try to get an out (as long as someone is warming up -still no one up with a runner on second), but once there were two on with Pudge at the plate, you HAVE to go to the pen, but he couldn't because nobody was warmed up! Then he had to rush Farnsworth in who wasn't ready and the route is already on!
The fan is an fucking idiot and gets most of the blame but Dusty should get the blame as well for yet another gmae 6 collapse.
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The fact is the Cubs gave up 8 runs, I will say the fan is at fault for 1 or 2 runs, but not 8.
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2003 World Series -- Yankees & Marlins
yawn.......
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
2003 World Series -- Yankees & Marlins
yawn.......
shhhhhhh
not so fast
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Anyone think that he will end up like that Colombian football (soccer) goalie?
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This man must leave Chicago, now. The Sun may have seen it as a personalized feature, but it's his "Wanted" poster.
Man in stands described as diehard fan
October 15, 2003
BY ANNIE SWEENEY, FRANK MAIN AND CHRIS FUSCO
The man some fans blame for Tuesday night's Cubs loss because he reached out and touched a foul ball that Moises Alou was trying to catch is a diehard Cubs fan who coaches youth baseball in the north suburbs.
Steve Bartman, 26, works at Hewitt Associates, an international consulting firm in Lincolnshire.
"He is an associate at Hewitt, and he is not coming to work today because of the incident," Suzanne Zagata-Meraz, a spokeswoman for Hewitt, said this morning. "That was a decision that Steve and [Human Resources] made together. We have been in contact with Steve."
A man who answered the door at the Northbrook home where friends and a neighbor said Bartman grew up defended him, saying he only did what came naturally when a foul ball came his way.
"He's a huge Cubs fan," said the man, who responded to "Mr. Bartman." "I'm sure I taught him well. I taught him to catch foul balls when they come near him."
He declined to say any more and would not confirm what relation he is to Steve Bartman.
A neighbor, Ron Cohen, said he has known the Bartman family for 20 years. He and others said Bartman was a graduate of the University of Notre Dame who played for and is now a coach for the Renegades, an elite youth baseball club in Niles.
Cohen said he saw Bartman on Sunday and that Bartman told him then that he had tickets to Tuesday's game.
"He felt great he got tickets to the game," said Cohen, 63.
Cohen was watching the game on TV with his son, who grew up with "Stevie," when they recognized the man in the Renegades shirt.
"I really was just surprised," said Cohen, who called Bartman's mother. "I think it's just a natural tendency. Everybody reaches. I'm not trying to defend him, but I think it's just a natural tendency. He may not have seen Alou coming."
He described Bartman as a baseball fanatic.
"He's a good kid, a wonderful son, never in any trouble," Cohen told a Sun-Times reporter. "I don't think he should be blamed at all. People reach for balls. This just happened to be a little more critical. If Florida didn't score all the runs, you wouldn't be standing here."
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Anyone think that he will end up like that Colombian football (soccer) goalie?
It's not too often I get to correct GGW, but Andres Escobar wasn't a goalie, he was the defender who scored the own goal in the Colombia v US match in 1994.
And no, the gambling syndicate in the US is not like the gambling syndicate in Colombia.
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d'oh......
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Anyone think that he will end up like that Colombian football (soccer) goalie?
It's not too often I get to correct GGW, but Andres Escobar wasn't a goalie, he was the defender who scored the own goal in the Colombia v US match in 1994.
And no, the gambling syndicate in the US is not like the gambling syndicate in Colombia. [/b]
Correct! Helluva goal too! :D
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Originally posted by vansmack:
The only other person who I think should share the blame is Dusty Baker. It's the eighth inning and your pitcher has thrown 113 pitches - how in the hell do you not have somebody warming up in the bullpen?
Do you not remember last year's world series when he pulled Russ Ortiz too early?
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Sorry Mank, but I have to disagree with you.
I don't know shite about baseball so bow to your superior knowledge. BUT! A good team would be able to overcome that and still win the game, especially as they were winning when it happened. OR...they could've taken the Yankees approach and started pitching to the batters heads!
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Originally posted by vansmack:
The only other person who I think should share the blame is Dusty Baker. It's the eighth inning and your pitcher has thrown 113 pitches - how in the hell do you not have somebody warming up in the bullpen? Once the first guy got on, fine with a two run lead you can let Prior try to get an out (as long as someone is warming up -still no one up with a runner on second), but once there were two on with Pudge at the plate, you HAVE to go to the pen, but he couldn't because nobody was warmed up! Then he had to rush Farnsworth in who wasn't ready and the route is already on!
i don't really blame keeping prior in there. . .dusty is now getting blamed for keeping a pitcher in too long. . last year, he took out ortiz too early. if anything, dusty should not have brought farnsworth in, then had him make an intentional walk. any momentum he had warming up is gone.
otherwise, spot on smackie!
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Originally posted by mankie:
OR...they could've taken the Yankees approach and started pitching to the batters heads!
that's the red sox
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Ok the ball was foul, it wasnt on the playing field, it was on his side of the bleachers. Anyone of us with any kind of athletic ability woulda done the same thing out of instinct. If it was over the bar that they show in the picture then YES it is his fault, but if he lets the ball go and Alou who is not the most talented outfielder doesnt catch it, then the fan gets knocked in the head with the ball. So its not his fault.........Of course i'm rooting for the Marlins so i'm happy it happened.
GO YANKEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Five outs from the World Series, and Florida's Luis Castillo hit a fly ball that went to Cubs left fielder Moises Alou. He drifted over toward the stands and jumped for the ball, but then a young man in the crowd in a dark shirt, Cubs cap and headphones reached over with both hands looking for a souvenir and knocked the ball away.
The play was ruined, and Alou jumped out of control in anger, reportedly yelling an obscenity at the fan. A few minutes later, the man cried while holding a sweater over his face as three security guards escorted him in safety out of the stands.
Later, they gave the man, maybe 25 years old and 5-7, a tan jacket as a disguise so he could leave the stadium safely.
Cubs security wouldn't release the man's name, saying they worried for his safety. But one security guard, asked what the man had told them, said this:
"Just that he was scared to death. He didn't know what happened till it was over. He was wearing the headphones, and he didn't really know.''
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Originally posted by mankie:
OR...they could've taken the Yankees approach and started pitching to the batters heads!
that's the red sox [/b]
Clemence got traded to the Redsocks??? When?
I bet it's fun being a Whitesox fan in Chicago today.
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Originally posted by Guiny:
Ok the ball was foul, it wasnt on the playing field, it was on his side of the bleachers. Anyone of us with any kind of athletic ability woulda done the same thing out of instinct. If it was over the bar that they show in the picture then YES it is his fault, but if he lets the ball go and Alou who is not the most talented outfielder doesnt catch it, then the fan gets knocked in the head with the ball. So its not his fault.........Of course i'm rooting for the Marlins so i'm happy it happened.
GO YANKEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that's not true. . .it was over the railing, so, if anything, it would have hit the wall. . .alou said he was 100% sure he was gonna catch the ball.
how in the world can someone root for the marlins??
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Originally posted by Guiny:
Originally posted by vansmack:
The only other person who I think should share the blame is Dusty Baker. It's the eighth inning and your pitcher has thrown 113 pitches - how in the hell do you not have somebody warming up in the bullpen?
Do you not remember last year's world series when he pulled Russ Ortiz too early? [/b]
I watch it at least once a week on DVD thank you very much (I was also in attendance). And that was the other game 6 collapse I was referring to.
His mistake there wasn't pulling him too early, it was giving away the game ball before he had actually won the game. I don't think it was too early: Glaus and Wooten smoked those first two balls and there were no outs with two on with a five run lead. Just don't give the other team more incentive to beat you.
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Originally posted by mankie:
Clemence got traded to the Redsocks??? When?
I bet it's fun being a Whitesox fan in Chicago today.
clemence? what are you talking about? pedro martinez is the one who throws at peoples heads, and tells people he's gonna throw at peoples heads.
as for being a white sox fan, ask bernie mac, i hear he's a white sox fan.
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
how in the world can someone root for the marlins?? [/b]
Most of America will if they end up playing the Yankees.
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Originally posted by mankie:
Clemence got traded to the Redsocks??? When?
I bet it's fun being a Whitesox fan in Chicago today.
what? pedro martinez throws at peoples heads, and taunts and tells people that he's gonna throw at their heads.
as for a white sox fan, ask bernie mac, i hear he's one.
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That's so, so true.
Originally posted by mankie:
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
how in the world can someone root for the marlins?? [/b]
Most of America will if they end up playing the Yankees. [/b]
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Originally posted by mankie:
Most of America will if they end up playing the Yankees.
i doubt it, since most of america wouldn't watch that.
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Originally posted by mankie:
Most of America will if they end up playing the Yankees.
i doubt it, since most of america wouldn't watch that. [/b]
Who said anything about watching it?
Actually, watching baseball is like reading a book, you can put it down then come back to it hours later and you haven't missed anything.
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Originally posted by mankie:
Most of America will if they end up playing the Yankees.
The Yankees-Mets World series had lower ratings across the nation than the Giants-Angels.
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Actually, watching soccer is like reading a book, you can put it down then come back to it hours later and you haven't missed anything.
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Originally posted by Bagster:
That's so, so true.
Originally posted by mankie:
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
how in the world can someone root for the marlins?? [/b]
Most of America will if they end up playing the Yankees. [/b]
[/b]
I don't have any stats, but I'd be willing to guess that the Yankees sell more merchandise than any other sports franchise. So they can't be universally hated.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
I don't have any stats, but I'd be willing to guess that the Yankees sell more merchandise than any other sports franchise.
acutally, man-u is the highest selling merch world-wide. .the yankees are second. which is why they entered into a partnership a few years ago to sell each other's merch.
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
I don't have any stats, but I'd be willing to guess that the Yankees sell more merchandise than any other sports franchise.
acutally, man-u is the highest selling merch world-wide. .the yankees are second. which is why they entered into a partnership a few years ago to sell each other's merch. [/b]
And Real Madrid is about to pass them both.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
I don't have any stats, but I'd be willing to guess that the Yankees sell more merchandise than any other sports franchise.
acutally, man-u is the highest selling merch world-wide. .the yankees are second. which is why they entered into a partnership a few years ago to sell each other's merch. [/b]
And Real Madrid is about to pass them both. [/b]
Thanks to Becks!
Bede..if you went back to a football game 90 minutes later...IT WOULD BE OVER !
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That's twice in a single thread that I've been wrong.
I need a cup of coffee or something.......
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
I don't have any stats, but I'd be willing to guess that the Yankees sell more merchandise than any other sports franchise.
acutally, man-u is the highest selling merch world-wide. .the yankees are second. which is why they entered into a partnership a few years ago to sell each other's merch. [/b]
You might find Ferrar F1 are second to United, which is why they want a piece of the partnership action with United and the Yankees.
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Originally posted by mankie:
Bede..if you went back to a football game 90 minutes later...IT WOULD BE OVER !
really? it only lasts 90 minutes?? you're kidding me. you sure?? i had no idea. it just seems like hours.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
That's twice in a single thread that I've been wrong.
Unheard of....
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So who's going to win the rugby World Cup?
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What surprises me the most is that the Cubs are still favored tonight!!!!!
NATIONAL LEAGUE PRO BASEBALL
10/15/03 (PT) FAVORITE ODDS UNDERDOG OVER/UNDER
5:15-------------CHC------240--------Florida---------7
They have absolutely no chance tonight. Am I right about this? Can you think of a game 6 meltdown that didn't cost the team a seven game series?
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
So who's going to win the rugby World Cup?
ENG'U'LAND ENG'U'LAND ENG'U'LAND!
They're even favorites for crying out loud!
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Originally posted by mankie:
Bede..if you went back to a football game 90 minutes later...IT WOULD BE OVER !
really? it only lasts 90 minutes?? you're kidding me. you sure?? i had no idea. it just seems like hours. [/b]
it would to an ignorant yank...try asking the rest of the world and anyone will explain the rules to you so you could better understand it.
'World Cup' of football = Teams from every country in the world compete to win the competition.
Baseball 'World Series' = Yanks, Toronto and Montreal compete to win the competition.
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Originally posted by mankie:
it would to an ignorant yank...try asking the rest of the world and anyone will explain the rules to you so you could better understand it.
well, thank you for assuming that i know nothing about soccer. . .i could say the exact same thing about ignorant red coats and baseball. :)
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Originally posted by vansmack:
What surprises me the most is that the Cubs are still favored tonight!!!!!
NATIONAL LEAGUE PRO BASEBALL
10/15/03 (PT) FAVORITE ODDS UNDERDOG OVER/UNDER
5:15-------------CHC------240--------Florida---------7
They have absolutely no chance tonight. Am I right about this? Can you think of a game 6 meltdown that didn't cost the team a seven game series?
well, the classic is still game 6 of the 1986 world series. . .the red sox were just out of it in game 7. course, bruce hurst is no kerry wood.
then again, the red sox won game 6 of the 1975 series when they were down 3 in the 8th inning, but the reds came back and won game 7.
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
well, the classic is still game 6 of the 1986 world series. . .the red sox were just out of it in game 7. course, bruce hurst is no kerry wood.
then again, the red sox won game 6 of the 1975 series when they were down 3 in the 8th inning, but the reds came back and won game 7.
I thought the classic in game 6 of last years world series was pretty good too, but I had completely forgotten about 1975. Good one.
I think Wood will pitch well, but the Cub pen will fold the lead late. That would make for a good post - predict how the curse will unravel the Cubs tonight.
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Originally posted by mankie:
it would to an ignorant yank...try asking the rest of the world and anyone will explain the rules to you so you could better understand it.
well, thank you for assuming that i know nothing about soccer. . .i could say the exact same thing about ignorant red coats and baseball. :) [/b]
Let me educate you a little, in the rest of the world it's called "football" and played by men, not women.
red coat!!!! then I must call you French mercenary.
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Originally posted by mankie:
red coat!!!! then I must call you French mercenary.
hey, the colonists fought with the red coats against the french in the french and indian war, errr, 7 years war. the french just happened to be available (sort of) when we wanted to be free.
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Originally posted by mankie:
red coat!!!! then I must call you French mercenary.
hey, the colonists fought with the red coats against the french in the french and indian war, errr, 7 years war. the french just happened to be available (sort of) when we wanted to be free. [/b]
I was at some historical battle ground in PA.....Valley Forge I think, and read that the British weren't really interested in the revolutionary war so sent out a bunch of German mercaneries in to fight as red coats. SO! The French basically beat the Germans in that one. Has Germany ever won a war?
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Originally posted by mankie:
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
[qb] Originally posted by mankie:
[qb] Actually, watching baseball is like reading a book, you can put it down then come back to it hours later and you haven't missed anything. [/b]
Just like soccer, you could start watching it, read ten books, come back and the score would still be 0-0.
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Originally posted by Guiny:
Just like soccer, you could start watching it, read ten books, come back and the score would still be 0-0.
but the game can't end in a tie, unlike soccer.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
What surprises me the most is that the Cubs are still favored tonight!!!!!
NATIONAL LEAGUE PRO BASEBALL
10/15/03 (PT) FAVORITE ODDS UNDERDOG OVER/UNDER
5:15-------------CHC------240--------Florida---------7
They have absolutely no chance tonight. Am I right about this? Can you think of a game 6 meltdown that didn't cost the team a seven game series?
That was easy money folks. I hope you listened.
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Originally posted by mankie:
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
how in the world can someone root for the marlins?? [/b]
Most of America will if they end up playing the Yankees. [/b]
Hold that Yankees/Marlins talk for ONE second here....we're not done yet!
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
[/b]
but the game can't end , unlike soccer. [/QB]
That would've sufficed!
BTW..Did you hear that the Cubs organization have fired one of the hotdog vendors after last night's game. Evidently his ketchup bottle wasn't completely full so when he squeezed it, it made that fart noise and put the Cubs players off....the end result being they lost game seven.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
That was easy money folks. I hope you listened.
it's official, dusty doesn't know how to use his pitching staff. that was just an terribly managed game by dusty. i think dusty gave up after the first inning.
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Well, they havent won in 95 years for a reason. They dont even have a curse, unless you just call being bad a curse.
I booked my hotel in Boston this morning and will be heading north next weekend if we can make it that far.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Well, they havent won in 95 years for a reason. They dont even have a curse, unless you just call being bad a curse.
careful there speedo. . .pot kettle black. :)
course, the cubs have been pretty awful most of those years, whereas the sox just fall apart.
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
careful there speedo. . .pot kettle black. :)
course, the cubs have been pretty awful most of those years, whereas the sox just fall apart.
i wouldnt call the Red Sox bad. Its just the Yankees they cant beat. I think the Cubs lost regularly to a plethera of teams.
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
it's official, dusty doesn't know how to use his pitching staff. that was just an terribly managed game by dusty. i think dusty gave up after the first inning.
But what has taken so long for MLB to see this? Nobody up in the pen again? Two straight nights? Unbelievable.
Now lets predict how the Sox will fall apart tonight. Any takers?
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
i wouldnt call the Red Sox bad. Its just the Yankees they cant beat.
I thought they played the Mets in 86?
And when ou send Nomar to Anaheim after the season, can you send him without his inability to get a hit in a close game (save for last night)?
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Well, clearly they are the underdog, so just losing would not qualify for "falling apart".
So they will have to get a lead then lose it, late in the game. Which i doubt will happen seeing as how good thier bullpen has been. I say, we lose early or we no lose at all.
And if i was a betting man, i would bet on the Sox.
(i am not a betting man)
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Now lets predict how the Sox will fall apart tonight. Any takers?
NY 10
BOS 2
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by vansmack:
Now lets predict how the Sox will fall apart tonight. Any takers?
NY 10
BOS 2 [/b]
BOS 6
NYY 4
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Well, clearly they are the underdog, so just losing would not qualify for "falling apart".
So they will have to get a lead then lose it, late in the game. Which i doubt will happen seeing as how good thier bullpen has been. I say, we lose early or we no lose at all.
And if i was a betting man, i would bet on the Sox.
(i am not a betting man)
Actually, you're somehow the favorite:
AMERICAN LEAGUE PRO BASEBALL
10/16/03 (PT) FAVORITE ODDS UNDERDOG OVER/UNDER
5:15 --------------Boston------- 114------- NY Yankees ----- 7½
But you're right, the fall I'm talking about is blowing the big lead or the one play where you had a chance to end the game and don't.
I'm thinking the Sox will light up the Rocket, who might actually get tossed at some point when he hits somebody and Pedro cruises for a while after hitting the first batter he faces. The Sox have a two run lead, Grady brings in Jackson for the defensive replacement in the eighth, he makes the error in the ninth and the next batter hits a two run homerun to tie it. The stories start spinning. Then the Sox get a couple runners on and two outs in the 11th, Jackson bats where MVP Todd Walker should have been batting, he strikes out and a Yankee hits a walk-off home run the bottom half of the inning.
And the cities of Boston and Chicago take the rest of the week off to recover.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
AMERICAN LEAGUE PRO BASEBALL
10/16/03 (PT) FAVORITE ODDS UNDERDOG OVER/UNDER
5:15 --------------Boston------- 114------- NY Yankees ----- 7½
[/QB]
can you explain that to me? I dont get the 114 and 7 1/2
(see, i am not a betting man)
what does all that mean?
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and of all the mistakes the Red Sox may or may not make, i think a managerial mistake (replacing Walker with Jackson or soemthing) is one of the last ones possible.
Saving Pedro for Game 5 in Oakland
Starting Burkett in Game 4 in Oakland
Pitching Lowe in the 9th in Game 5 in Oakland
Pinch-Hitting Varitek in Game 4 in Boston (ALCS)
Saving Pedro until tonight.
Starting Wakefield in Game 4.
a lot of decisions he made, all (except saving Pedro for tonight) have worked out brilliantly so far.
I'll trust Little from now on.
my prediction, two words....Gabe Kapler. just wait.
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Real men play EVERY game!
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
my prediction, two words....Gabe Kapler. just wait.
What does Mr. Kotter have to do with baseball?
<img src="http://www.pmpnetwork.com/gabe_kaplan/cast.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by vansmack:
AMERICAN LEAGUE PRO BASEBALL
10/16/03 (PT) FAVORITE ODDS UNDERDOG OVER/UNDER
5:15 --------------Boston------- 114------- NY Yankees ----- 7½
[/b]
can you explain that to me? I dont get the 114 and 7 1/2
(see, i am not a betting man)
what does all that mean? [/QB]
You're a very slight favorite. You have to bet $114 to win $100.
IF you take the Yankees, you wager $100 to win $114.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by vansmack:
AMERICAN LEAGUE PRO BASEBALL
10/16/03 (PT) FAVORITE ODDS UNDERDOG OVER/UNDER
5:15 --------------Boston------- 114------- NY Yankees ----- 7½
[/b]
can you explain that to me? I dont get the 114 and 7 1/2
(see, i am not a betting man)
what does all that mean? [/QB]
And 7 1/2 is the over/under on the total runs scored. If you bet the under, you think that the total runs scored will be 7 or less and if you take the over you think the total runs scored will be 8 or more.
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thanks.
I'd take the Sox and/or the over, definitely.
:D
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
and of all the mistakes the Red Sox may or may not make, i think a managerial mistake (replacing Walker with Jackson or soemthing) is one of the last ones possible.
Saving Pedro for Game 5 in Oakland
Starting Burkett in Game 4 in Oakland
Pitching Lowe in the 9th in Game 5 in Oakland
Pinch-Hitting Varitek in Game 4 in Boston (ALCS)
Saving Pedro until tonight.
Starting Wakefield in Game 4.
a lot of decisions he made, all (except saving Pedro for tonight) have worked out brilliantly so far.
I'll trust Little from now on.
my prediction, two words....Gabe Kapler. just wait.
This is what I love about Sox fans. I said nothing of a mistake by Little. I didn't say that bringing in Jackson was the wrong move, you assumed it. I was just saying what was going to happen without putting blame on any decisions Little makes. Trust him do you?
I don't like Little. I've disagreed with many of his decisions in this series, but you're absolutely right about his starting pitching decisions. But he has time to think about those decisions. You didn't mention any decisions he made in the field, on offense and only one pitiching change.
It's his decisions when he doesn't have time to think about it that bother me. He hasn't laid down a bunt yet, but he has hit into 3 strike out double plays! This is the playoffs and you have to manage differently in the playoffs. Every run counts and pitching wins, not slugging percentage.
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well, i just think that a change in the lineup mid-game, causing disaster, would be his fault. If what you say were to happen, i would be pissed at him.
We dont ever bunt, ever. It doesnt help the slugging percentage. We arent that fast either.
The Boston Red Sox dont play small ball and therefore leave little offensive decisions for Little to make.
The only relief pitcher i have seen blow things, is Kim and perhaps Williamson ALMOST blew it one time. But other than that, a you can call those strike out - throw out things the only bad calls, i believe.
You dont take a team with the highest slugging percentage in the history of baseball and tell them to bunt!?
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
well, i just think that a change in the lineup mid-game, causing disaster, would be his fault. If what you say were to happen, i would be pissed at him.
We dont ever bunt, ever. It doesnt help the slugging percentage. We arent that fast either.
The Boston Red Sox dont play small ball and therefore leave little offensive decisions for Little to make.
The only relief pitcher i have seen blow things, is Kim and perhaps Williamson ALMOST blew it one time. But other than that, a you can call those strike out - throw out things the only bad calls, i believe.
You dont take a team with the highest slugging percentage in the history of baseball and tell them to bunt!?
I would make the defensive change if Jackson were the better defender. That's smart baseball.
If Scioscia didn't ask Glaus, Salmon, Anderson, Spezio and Erstad to bunt, then they're not the World Champions. Of course, maybe they're not in the record books for having the highest slugging percentage in the history of baseball, but how many Red Sox fans and players would trade that record for a World Series title?
You bunt when the play dictates it. Small ball is a style of play that does not suit the Sox, but bunting is not always small ball - it's also smart ball. It doesn't take speed to bunt a runner over - if anything you bunt and run because you don't have speed. Why does he wait until two strikes for every hit and run? It's harder to turn a double play 4-6-3 or 5-4-3 than is to catch a slow guy stealing on a hit and run with 2 strikes.
How about having the second baseman cover second with a left handed batter and a finesse pitcher? I could smell hit and run from San Francisco yet Walker covers second? The double play ball goes right through the hole you created on the right side for a left handed batter. He's done that twice, both times resulting in a rally for the Yankees.
How many times does Matsui have to drop a flare hit before you stop playing the outfield deep against him? Put them at regular depth - you're gaurding against a double with a guy who's going to get a double anyway. You have a better shot at getting him going for three than you do going for two anyway.
He's done a hell of a job with the Pen though so you're right on there. They are finally hitting their groove and now is the right time.
It's the little things (and I mean a little luck too) that are keeping you and the Cubs from winning World Series titles. The talent is there, niether team just acts like they believe and both are ready to make excuses and put blame elsewhere for everything.
It's not the Yankees because they're beatable. That's the same team that the Angels embarrassed last year. Are Matsui and Contreras making the difference? No way. Take chances on the basepaths, not in the field. Move runners over to get them in with the high slugging percentage, don't wait for two singles to score runs. And believe you can win right up until the last out because this Yankee bullpen is old and tired. And get in Roger's head because he beats himself more than any hall of fame pitcher in baseball. Get him fired up and he will overthrow.
I just don't think the Sox take this approach (although hearing Grady said to turn the music on in the locker room after game 5 was good to hear). They don't make me believe that they can win (mostly because of decisions and execution and some attitude). I hope they do though because I hate the Yankees with every bone in my body. But only a fool would bet on the Sox as the favorites tonight - it's not a wise bet.
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You have very wise points and i agree with the fact that they have left WAY too many men on base and had way too many men thrown out on the basepaths.
Do they believe they can win? course not. not yesterday anyway. Do they believe they can win now? i dont know, but if they do, they will.
I lived in Boston in 1986 and i was 9 when those fuckers lost the Series (i know it was the Mets not the Yankees) but i cried for days!! (as 9 year olds do) and i remember it well, like it was last year.
I guess we'll see tonight. If i can even bear to watch.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
I would make the defensive change if Jackson were the better defender. That's smart baseball.
If Scioscia didn't ask Glaus, Salmon, Anderson, Spezio and Erstad to bunt, then they're not the World Champions. Of course, maybe they're not in the record books for having the highest slugging percentage in the history of baseball, but how many Red Sox fans and players would trade that record for a World Series title?
You bunt when the play dictates it. Small ball is a style of play that does not suit the Sox, but bunting is not always small ball - it's also smart ball. It doesn't take speed to bunt a runner over - if anything you bunt and run because you don't have speed. Why does he wait until two strikes for every hit and run? It's harder to turn a double play 4-6-3 or 5-4-3 than is to catch a slow guy stealing on a hit and run with 2 strikes.
How about having the second baseman cover second with a left handed batter and a finesse pitcher? I could smell hit and run from San Francisco yet Walker covers second? The double play ball goes right through the hole you created on the right side for a left handed batter. He's done that twice, both times resulting in a rally for the Yankees.
How many times does Matsui have to drop a flare hit before you stop playing the outfield deep against him? Put them at regular depth - you're gaurding against a double with a guy who's going to get a double anyway. You have a better shot at getting him going for three than you do going for two anyway.
He's done a hell of a job with the Pen though so you're right on there. They are finally hitting their groove and now is the right time.
It's the little things (and I mean a little luck too) that are keeping you and the Cubs from winning World Series titles. The talent is there, niether team just acts like they believe and both are ready to make excuses and put blame elsewhere for everything.
It's not the Yankees because they're beatable. That's the same team that the Angels embarrassed last year. Are Matsui and Contreras making the difference? No way. Take chances on the basepaths, not in the field. Move runners over to get them in with the high slugging percentage, don't wait for two singles to score runs. And believe you can win right up until the last out because this Yankee bullpen is old and tired. And get in Roger's head because he beats himself more than any hall of fame pitcher in baseball. Get him fired up and he will overthrow.
I just don't think the Sox take this approach (although hearing Grady said to turn the music on in the locker room after game 5 was good to hear). They don't make me believe that they can win (mostly because of decisions and execution and some attitude). I hope they do though because I hate the Yankees with every bone in my body. But only a fool would bet on the Sox as the favorites tonight - it's not a wise bet. [/b]
I freely admit that I don't understand the game of baseball....but after reading that I'm not sure I understand the English language!
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
You have very wise points and i agree with the fact that they have left WAY too many men on base and had way too many men thrown out on the basepaths.
Do they believe they can win? course not. not yesterday anyway. Do they believe they can win now? i dont know, but if they do, they will.
I lived in Boston in 1986 and i was 9 when those fuckers lost the Series (i know it was the Mets not the Yankees) but i cried for days!! (as 9 year olds do) and i remember it well, like it was last year.
I guess we'll see tonight. If i can even bear to watch.
I was 12 in 86 and was in attendance for the "Donnie Moore" game (for lack of a better title). Hendu crushed me. I cried for days and I cried again when Donnie killed himself a few years later. I was convinced that the Angels too were cursed after blowing 79, 82, 89 and then the 15 game lead in 95. I am also a Pirates fan and sat through 90, 91, and the infamous Francisco Cabrera game in 92. I know pain.
But my faith was restored last year with something I never would have guessed in the era of the juiced ball. Simple smart situational baseball. And age doesn't matter because I cried as much when we won as I did when we lost. I creid the most when we beat the Yankees.
It's what's been working for the Marlins. I haven't for one second thought that team didn't believe they could beat the Giants or the Cubs.
I don't get that feeling with the Sox (except Grady's starting pitching choices which cleary show he's been managing for a 7 game series from the start). I just don't trust him, given what I've seen in the first six, that he can do enough to win game 7. I think he's relying too much on the aura of the Pedro of old. He's not the same pitcher. Grady's going to have to manage a helluva game tonight for the Sox to win.
Oh and you'll watch every gut wrenching pitch from start to finish. All true baseball fans will as this is a matchup we'll be able tell our kids about with all of the storylines.
Good luck. I'm rooting for you and all Sox fans out there. Like I said when the playoffs started, you'd have to be a heartless twat to be rooting for the Yankees tonight.
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spot on again smackie. . .the lack of bunting in this playoffs is moderatly frustrating. of all the teams that successfully pulled it off the best, it would be the a's. side note about that: gm billy beane apparently yelled at art howe last year when he bunted in a regular season game, telling art howe that the a's weren't built to bunt- look where that got them. while the sox have the highest slugging percentage in history, there comes a time when a bunt would be the ideal play, as opposed to swinging for the fences everytime. same with the hit and run. not enough teams do either of those plays well enough. but, if you can get by winning 12-10 games, then go ahead.
after watching that game last night, it was clear that the cubs just didn't want to win that, err, the marlins wanted to win it more. my friend has been saying since the middle of september that the cubs seemed to not want to win, but just put in enough effort.
i've only been to 2 post season games (1987 giants/cardinals, the jeffrey leonard "one flap down" series- and game 3 of the cubs/braves where mark prior threw that 2 hitter). . .but i've seen enough post season games, but have never broke down, generally because they've never been in those close, tragic games. having said that, i did have to console my g/f after last night.
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
the jeffrey leonard "one flap down" series
I still think he is a bastard
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Originally posted by ratioci nation:
I still think he is a bastard
oh, come on. . it was great watching him show up all those cardinals pitchers. . .plus, how many people win the nlcs mvp award, but played on the losing team, but it figures that it would be the same season that andre dawson won his mvp award.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
But you're right, the fall I'm talking about is blowing the big lead
I'm so sorry sonick, I really feel for you and the rest of my Boston friends right now.
Originally posted by vansmack:
I'm thinking the Sox will light up the Rocket, who might actually get tossed at some point when he hits somebody and Pedro cruises for a while after hitting the first batter he faces.
CHECK Well he didn't get tossed, but the Sox were all over him. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
Originally posted by vansmack:
The Sox have a two run lead, Grady brings in Jackson for the defensive replacement in the eighth, he makes the error in the ninth and the next batter hits a two run homerun to tie it.
It was three run lead in the eighth so I was close. He surprisingly left Walker in and I think it was the right move. Jackson pinch run and that's it.
Originally posted by vansmack:
The stories start spinning. Then the Sox get a couple runners on and two outs in the 11th, Jackson bats where MVP Todd Walker should have been batting, he strikes out and a Yankee hits a walk-off home run the bottom half of the inning.
CHECK The Sox never threatened in the 11th, but did Smackie actually predict a walkoff homerun in the 11th for the Yankee win? I'm telling you guys, I don't make this stuff up. My Jedi powers serve me well. And I made fortune this week.
Originally posted by vansmack:
And the cities of Boston and Chicago take the rest of the week off to recover.
For all the hype, we get a Florida-Yankee World Series. Yawn....Yippee.....Yawn. There's always next year, but man it just ain't right. The Sox were agresssive on the base paths from the start, they executed hit and runs well and did everything they needed to defensively to win that game.
I'm not in the mood to go in depth into Grady believing too much into the aura of Pedro circa 99-2000, but my rule of thumb is 100+ pitches with a man at the plate who could tie the game, it's time to go to the pen. And by tomorrow morning, I won't be the only one saying that.
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Marlins V Yankees.....I guess I won't be the only one NOT watching the world series! :D
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watching that game last night was like deja vu all over again. i know i've seen a game just like that before, oh wait, i know. . .manager won't take out the tiring starter while they have the lead, and the starter gives up the lead, then lose the game. where did i watch that?
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
watching that game last night was like deja vu all over again. i know i've seen a game just like that before, oh wait, i know. . .manager won't take out the tiring starter while they have the lead, and the starter gives up the lead, then lose the game. where did i watch that?
Wasn't that Bull Durham?
No, wait....A league of their own.
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Shit, I just got six nights of my life back. What, oh what, will I do all this week!?!