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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: ggw on November 30, 2006, 09:40:00 am
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House Of Blues Seeks a D.C. Home (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/29/AR2006112901532.html)
Some Local Venues Fear Chain's Impact
By Cecilia Kang
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, November 30, 2006; D01
The owners of the House of Blues, a popular chain of concert venues, are negotiating with the District to build a $120 million complex near the new Washington Convention Center that would include a live-entertainment hall, a hotel, retail stores and restaurants.
The project would be an anchor in the city's revitalization efforts for an area just east of Mount Vernon Square. But the proposal has also sparked a debate among concert promoters about whether the Washington region could support the national chain without squeezing out homegrown clubs.
The House of Blues, with 10 concert halls nationwide and four more in the works, is part of a sprawling live-music empire assembled by radio giant Clear Channel Communications, which is now the world's largest producer of live concerts and the second-largest venue management company.
The Los Angeles firm signed a nonbinding agreement five months ago to develop the complex at Fifth and I streets NW, according to Kevin Warner, vice president of investments and acquisitions at the National Capital Revitalization Corp.
"We see this as an opportunity to create a destination location," said Warner, who has led negotiations on the project for the quasi-governmental group, whose board includes members appointed by the mayor and the president. "This would not only be a tourist destination but also a business destination, as you think about its proximity to the convention center, Capitol Hill and the Verizon Center."
Warner said the agreement between the House of Blues and the NCRC, which owns the property and would be the lead developer on the project, is similar to a letter of intent. He said he expects a formal contract to be signed within months.
Some local music clubs have likened the arrival of the House of Blues to an invasion by a big-box national chain store that would crush local businesses.
"We will lose half of our business, at least," said Seth Hurwitz, owner of the 9:30 club and IMP Productions, a concert promoter. "It's like a chain of hot dog restaurants opening next to Ben's Chili Bowl," a landmark Washington eating establishment.
He and other concert promoters say House of Blues, which typically operates venues with capacities between 1,000 and 2,300 people, could lure performers with more money, edging out independently run venues that can't offer similar pay. The chain has even deeper pockets since being acquired this year by Live Nation, they say.
"There are a finite number of artists that you can draw for this size of venue," said Michael Jaworek, promoter for the Birchmere, a club in Alexandria. "If another venue comes along the same size, there will be head-on-head competition. It's a case of Darwinism at that point."
D.C. Council member Jim Graham (D-Ward 1) has expressed concern to the NCRC that the project would hurt local businesses like the 1,000-capacity 9:30 club, which is in his ward.
"The 9:30 club is a very successful, locally grown business, and now we are actively soliciting competition for them in a way that would be very detrimental," Graham said. "I think we need to practice better judgment, and I don't think this is the purpose of the NCRC."
The 9:30 club, which opened in 1980 at its original location, 930 F St. NW, and moved to its current location on V Street NW in 1996, has thrived in the District, introducing local audiences to the likes of Nirvana, the Smashing Pumpkins and Ben Harper.
Representatives for the House of Blues and its parent, Clear Channel's live-music spinoff, Live Nation, did not respond to requests for comment on the deal.
The House of Blues was founded in 1992 in a historic colonial house in Cambridge, Mass., with funding by a star-studded group of investors that included Dan Aykroyd, Paul Shaffer, River Phoenix, the band Aerosmith and Harvard University. The company eventually grew to become the second-largest live-music promoter in North America, but not without some controversy. Gay groups and others, for instance, have protested the occasional booking of acts whose lyrics advocate violence against gay people.
Gary Bongiovanni, editor of the live-music trade publication Pollstar, said the sale of the company to Live Nation is likely to speed expansion plans.
"House of Blues is the most successful brand in music clubs in the nation, and they have been successful by and large in every market they have entered," Bongiovanni said.
The arrival of a House of Blues club does not necessarily portend problems for others, Bongiovanni said. Chicago's famous Park West club has survived, as have numerous smaller venues, since the chain arrived in the Windy City.
"Should [Washington concert promoters] be worried that House of Blues is coming? Of course," Bongiovanni said. "But there are certain acts that will play at House of Blues and certain that will play at the 9:30 club and certain that will play at other places like the Black Cat. It doesn't have to mean the end of local clubs."
More competition can sometimes translate into higher ticket prices, as clubs are forced to increase the money they bid for acts, Bongiovanni and others said.
The NCRC's Warner, however, said his office studied the impact that House of Blues would have on local music promoters and venues and found that there were a large number of artists searching for medium-size venues.
"This will open up even more opportunity for national, international and local artists to come to the District," Warner said.
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I will be the first to pledge my allegiance to the 9:30 Club, and, um, the Birchmere. I will not atttend any shows at the House of Blues.
Who else is on board?
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House of Blues always seemed so cheesey to me...kind of like a Hard Rock Cafe for conerts or something.
Death to House of Blues!
I wonder how their message board is though.....
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
More competition can sometimes translate into higher ticket prices, as clubs are forced to increase the money they bid for acts, Bongiovanni and others said.
That's a scary thought.
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Where do we sign on as investors in order for Seth and Co to build their own larger venue to compete with the those out of town carpetbaggers... If only so that there isn't anymore moaning about the sound at DAR...
And while they are at it how about that 9:33 backstage for DJ nights and smaller acts. There a couple of us DJs which would dig a room to spin in on a regular basis. The sound system at 9:32 this year would have been blasted to pump some infectious beats through...
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Let the boycott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott) begin!!!!
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I would definitely avoid going there if one came to DC...but I would sooner boycott going to certain concerts than pay higher ticket prices. I've been to the House of Blues in San Diego and Chicago and as a venue I think they lack character. And if you're a band, why would you want to play there? I know that they strike a deal and probably pay more dough if you can sell the place out, but Clear Channel is truly evil and having a House of Blues is like having a cancerous cell trying to take over all the healthy ones. Fortunately I think the 9:30 can atomic blast the hell out of a HOB. Fuck 'em, that's what I say.
I really don't think we need a House of Blues in DC. What we need is a venue that IMP can use that holds 3,000 to 5,000 people in the city and near a Metro stop. That's the kind of place I would envision mid-level bands like the Foo Fighters playing so that people don't have to go to the Patriot Center (I know, it holds 10,000 people, but if you have a 5,000 capacity venue, you can have a band play 2 nights.) I suppose that Smith Center counts...but who wants to see a show there? Too bad we don't have something like the Aragon Ballroom or Hammerstein.
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With the growth this area has experienced in the last decades, I'm surprised the 930 Club hasn't had some real competition sooner.
Besides, with the loss of Nation, there might just be a market for a club that holds significantly more than 1000 people. Just kinda sucks it has to be the Clear Channel devil that brings that.
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Originally posted by Señor Carlos:
I wonder how their message board is though.....
maybe the competition will force them to turn on the search function, avatars, and post view counts
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Originally posted by brennser:
Let the boycott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott) begin!!!!
until there's a band there you want to see
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Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
Originally posted by brennser:
Let the boycott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott) begin!!!!
until there's a band there you want to see [/b]
NEVER!!! :D
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Is a club really a club if it holds significantly more than 1000 people? To me, it's just a sports arena without seats.
Originally posted by Alex:
With the growth this area has experienced in the last decades, I'm surprised the 930 Club hasn't had some real competition sooner.
Besides, with the loss of Nation, there might just be a market for a club that holds significantly more than 1000 people. Just kinda sucks it has to be the Clear Channel devil that brings that.
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Originally posted by bearman:
I really don't think we need a House of Blues in DC. What we need is a venue that IMP can use that holds 3,000 to 5,000 people in the city and near a Metro stop. That's the kind of place I would envision mid-level bands like the Foo Fighters playing so that people don't have to go to the Patriot Center (I know, it holds 10,000 people, but if you have a 5,000 capacity venue, you can have a band play 2 nights.) I suppose that Smith Center counts...but who wants to see a show there? Too bad we don't have something like the Aragon Ballroom or Hammerstein.
I will say, a 2400-3500 size venue is needed. I am so tired of DAR for bands too big for 9:30 but with nowhere else to go. Or Patriot Center.
Though it will take away from some of the awesoem two-night runs at 9:30, which are way cool 'cuz you get to see a band that could play a bigger place in the best smaller club in the country!!
Oy oy. Prices will definitely go up.........
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Places like the Aragon Ballroom or the Riviera (venues in Chicago) hold 5,500 and 2,500 people respectively and are old ballrooms and theaters. Same thing the Warfield (in SF). They're hardly sports arenas.
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So you're saying more competition will drive the prices up? What kind of economic theory is that?
I just don't see the point of seeing a band in a 2400-3500 capacity venue. At that point, it's not an artistic performance, it's an event. Yuck.
Originally posted by Bags:
Originally posted by bearman:
I really don't think we need a House of Blues in DC. What we need is a venue that IMP can use that holds 3,000 to 5,000 people in the city and near a Metro stop. That's the kind of place I would envision mid-level bands like the Foo Fighters playing so that people don't have to go to the Patriot Center (I know, it holds 10,000 people, but if you have a 5,000 capacity venue, you can have a band play 2 nights.) I suppose that Smith Center counts...but who wants to see a show there? Too bad we don't have something like the Aragon Ballroom or Hammerstein.
I will say, a 2400-3500 size venue is needed. I am so tired of DAR for bands too big for 9:30 but with nowhere else to go. Or Patriot Center.
Though it will take away from some of the awesoem two-night runs at 9:30, which are way cool 'cuz you get to see a band that could play a bigger place in the best smaller club in the country!!
Oy oy. Prices will definitely go up......... [/b]
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in my economics class, they teach that competition is what makes the market thrive!
oh, and the house of blues chicago kicks ass :) just sayin.
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Originally posted by Steny Hoyer, Pubic Destroyer:
So you're saying more competition will drive the prices up? What kind of economic theory is that?
A screwed up one. Venues get in bidding wars for artists and they pass those inflated prices on to you.
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Originally posted by eros:
Originally posted by Steny Hoyer, Pubic Destroyer:
So you're saying more competition will drive the prices up? What kind of economic theory is that?
A screwed up one. Venues get in bidding wars for artists and they pass those inflated prices on to you. [/b]
yes, in the basic economic theory, when prices go up, demand goes down.
however, in some cases, prices go up and demand stays the same, people just bitch about it more.
if concert venues charge more, and you pay extra to go to the shows, well then it just goes to show what a bargain you were getting before!!!
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Originally posted by le sonick:
Originally posted by eros:
Originally posted by Steny Hoyer, Pubic Destroyer:
So you're saying more competition will drive the prices up? What kind of economic theory is that?
A screwed up one. Venues get in bidding wars for artists and they pass those inflated prices on to you. [/b]
yes, in the basic economic theory, when prices go up, demand goes down.
however, in some cases, prices go up and demand stays the same, people just bitch about it more.
if concert venues charge more, and you pay extra to go to the shows, well then it just goes to show what a bargain you were getting before!!! [/b]
Yep. Sounds like another commodity people were bitching about this year. I wonder if Exxon could build a new venue downtown? :D
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i am sure they can. and will soon!
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the original post in this thread is dripping with cred: dissing the mega-corp, quotes from seth, and mentions of the birchmere and ben's chili bowl.
when i talk to my friends in other states, they are continously amazed at how many great shows I go to. DC has a great mix of venues. i'd much rather keep going to DAR (whose acoustics are just fine, folks) than have the starbucks of clubs come in here and ruin that mix.
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The best possible outcome of this would be for the 9:30 and the House of Blues to join forces and work together and put the stupid Patriot center out of the concert buisness.
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
the original post in this thread is dripping with cred: dissing the mega-corp, quotes from seth, and mentions of the birchmere and ben's chili bowl.
Um... that original post would be an article from the Washington Post.
;)
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There are really only a handful of decent shows at DAR and Patriot Center each year. A bigger HOB-type place would not only take those shows, but would also take the gigs of bands that are playing larger venues in other cities but playing the 9:30 in DC (sometimes for multiple nights).
I prefer the status quo.
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So what can fans of the 9:30 do about all this? Is this a "done deal"? The NCRC is a private entity and can sell to whom it pleases, correct? Should we be contacting Jim Graham (although he's already voiced his objections to the proposal)?
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Originally posted by Steny Hoyer, Pubic Destroyer:
So you're saying more competition will drive the prices up? What kind of economic theory is that?
Two venues of a similar size does not competition make -- trust me, I'm in a business that if we had only two suppliers in one area, we would not be allowed to sell our product at market prices. (Black Cat is half the size, so brings in different bands and doesn't constitute another competitor at the BoH/9:30 level).
So one competitor comes in, one that happens to be part of a vast corporation that can utilize revenues from other areas to increase payments to artists, and wala. In order for 9:30 to get acts, it must pay more as well, and ticket prices go up.
If there were 5 venues in the 800 - 1500 capacity range, that would be another matter.
Originally posted by Steny Hoyer, Pubic Destroyer:
I just don't see the point of seeing a band in a 2400-3500 capacity venue. At that point, it's not an artistic performance, it's an event. Yuck.
Have you been to some of the great clubs around the country that size? And would you prefer Patriot Center?? If so, you can have it. These are bands that aren't going to play 9:30, they're too big. So instead you get DAR or Patriot Center, or god forbid the basketball arena at American U.
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Originally posted by Christine Moritz:
So what can fans of the 9:30 do about all this?
dont go to the House of Blues. its as simple as that!!!! no matter how badly you want to see a band playing there....dont!
the ONLY way to get back at a business you dont like is to not give it your money. its real simple (yet, seemingly impossible for some people!)
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Maybe their beer prices will be cheaper too.
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Having only lived in DC since the late 90s, I can only assume based on past tendencies of anything historic here being torn down to build ugly office buildings, there was once grand movie theaters along the lines of the Fox in Detroit in the District? Those are the type of large venue's better suited for 3K concerts, and obviously costly to build and schedule these days.
Converting Merriweather so that the pavilion in the winter has been discussed, although among other things they would have to pave the parking lot for winter use.
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Definitely some disconcerting news. :) just sayin. [/b][/quote]The Atlantic City one is a boomy shithole though.
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Originally posted by le sonick:
Originally posted by Christine Moritz:
So what can fans of the 9:30 do about all this?
dont go to the House of Blues. its as simple as that!!!! no matter how badly you want to see a band playing there....dont![/b]
My question was whether there is anything that can be done to prevent the House of Blues project from going through in the first place.
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personally, i think there is enough room for another venue in DC.
not only are there lots of artists that dont come to DC or only play one night when two could be sold, but one could find that occasional "suprisingly empty great show" when a bigger show is at the opposing venue.
besides, ticket prices would probably either only increase very small, or for selected shows (figuring both venues arent going to be dicks and try to outbid each other for every band!)
and lastly, does anyone really think seth is going to get run out of dc?? i think not!!!
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Lincoln Theater by Ben's Chili Bowl? I saw beck there once. Is the Fox theater seated?
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
Having only lived in DC since the late 90s, I can only assume based on past tendencies of anything historic here being torn down to build ugly office buildings, there was once grand movie theaters along the lines of the Fox in Detroit in the District? Those are the type of large venue's better suited for 3K concerts, and obviously costly to build and schedule these days.
Converting Merriweather so that the pavilion in the winter has been discussed, although among other things they would have to pave the parking lot for winter use.
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Bring back the Citadel! (my first dc show was there)
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...and in the spirit of competing for bands with HOB, perhaps the 930 club will have to drop the contract clauses that prohibit bands who play a show at the 930 club from playing any other local venues for 30 days prior and after their 930 gig.
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I'd support the HOB
I don't accept the argument that more competition would drive up ticket prices due to clubs having to bid against each other. Because they're already charging whatever the market will bear.. if they charged more than that they'd lose money anyway
So, why did the Boston HOB close? Did it not make money?
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Nice tv commercial, badsushi.
Originally posted by Bartelby:
...and in the spirit of competing for bands with HOB, perhaps the 930 club will have to drop the contract clauses that prohibit bands who play a show at the 930 club from playing any other local venues for 30 days prior and after their 930 gig.
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Yes the Fox in Detroit is seated capacity around 5K...
<img src="http://www.experiencedetroit.com/Theatres_files/image006.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Originally posted by Mixed Veg:
So, why did the Boston HOB close? Did it not make money?
the one in Cambridge was the first one right?
did you ever go there? it wasnt really a music venue! it was some house. whenever i went there i thought i was going to get a plastic cup with my name on it!!!!
i think they shut it down because it was so crummy compared to what they were getting in NO and Chi-town.
they were talking of getting another one in Boston proper but real estate is just too fucking expensive!
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Nation was run by the people who are now running House of Blues. Live Nation anyone? What else do they run, Nissan, right?
Look HOB's method is to book the touring band for several cities, and you have to play *their* venue in all those cities, can't just play the cool ones and play elsewhere the other times. Such things crush competition, how can an independent network of venues compete?
They want to put it way downtown, who really wants to go there? I guess it will have to be subway shows exclusively as there is no way that parking for 3000 will magically appear for some shows. I really want to see this impact report, they just mention artists wanting a larger venue, who? When, where?
This line scares me:
"It doesn't have to mean the end of local clubs."
What does that mean? It could well, it usually does, they have to change their whole market and strategy? what?
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Looks like Lincoln is only 1,237 so it doesn't help us.
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
Yes the Fox in Detroit is seated capacity around 5K...
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Two questions about the House of Blues:
-How is the food there?
-How much will they charge for a yuengling
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Originally posted by le sonick:
in my economics class, they teach that competition is what makes the market thrive!
oh, and the house of blues chicago kicks ass :) just sayin.
That's because the House of Blues Chicago has in my opinion one of the best soundguy in the business. He also does sound over at Logan Square Auditorium in Chicago too. Plus, he's the only one I've ever heard make Nation sound amazing for live rock bands. :)
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com)
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Originally posted by MindCage:
Originally posted by le sonick:
in my economics class, they teach that competition is what makes the market thrive!
oh, and the house of blues chicago kicks ass :) just sayin.
That's because the House of Blues Chicago has in my opinion one of the best soundguy in the business. He also does sound over at Logan Square Auditorium in Chicago too. Plus, he's the only one I've ever heard make Nation sound amazing for live rock bands. :)
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com) [/b]
Name or who does he tour with?
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Originally posted by Sir HC:
Originally posted by MindCage:
Originally posted by le sonick:
in my economics class, they teach that competition is what makes the market thrive!
oh, and the house of blues chicago kicks ass :) just sayin.
That's because the House of Blues Chicago has in my opinion one of the best soundguy in the business. He also does sound over at Logan Square Auditorium in Chicago too. Plus, he's the only one I've ever heard make Nation sound amazing for live rock bands. :)
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com) [/b]
Name or who does he tour with? [/b]
You know exactly who I'm talking about lol
Jamie Duffy from Acumen Nation and DJ? Acucrack.
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com)
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I hate the entire House of Blues enterprise.
Their venues just annoy the piss out of me. The idea of a chain venue annoys the piss out of me. They are so "commercial rock." Like, fake-grimey and fake-decrepid and at the same time very modern and they all look like the same plastic crap. If I want to go to a theme park, I'll go to a theme park. I don't want to go to a theme show.
I think a huge part of what makes going to a great club so special is the individual experience you get at that particular venue and what you end up associating that with. The vibes that an individual club can give off are just so wonderful...I don't understand how any music fan (no matter how much they love the green) can fuck with that.
If anyone's seen the multiple HOBs in the LA/Orange County area, you'd understand. They forcefed and just not what a music venue should be. For me, there's no comfort in that whatsoever.
What makes the scene here so special in part is how we've escaped that crap. The clubs we have already are impressive and personable and dedicated. I'd love an alternative to DAR, but a House of Blues is not the answer. We'd need a good maybe Wiltern-type theatre or something. But this is absurd.
I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a pretentious bitch about this. But we have this great homegrown feeling in DC, and I've always loved that. I don't want some corporate assholes coming in and messing it up.
...and yes, I am well aware that regardless, this is how the cold cruel world works.
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The Blues isn't an art form. It's a product, not unlike tampons or computer chips.
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They want to put it way downtown, who really wants to go there?
I do, It's a cleaner safer place than where the other clubs are
I guess it will have to be subway shows exclusively as there is no way that parking for 3000 will magically appear for some shows.
That's a good thing, for people to be able to take the subway. But if it's next to the convention ctr there's a lot of underutilized parking capacity there at night they could potentially deal for
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Originally posted by Sir HC:
Look HOB's method is to book the touring band for several cities, and you have to play *their* venue in all those cities, can't just play the cool ones and play elsewhere the other times. Such things crush competition, how can an independent network of venues compete?
Damn, good point. Plus, can't LiveNation leverage a promoter's portfolio of bands in terms of, "if you want Band A to play Nissan, the Band B has to play HOB."
DAMN. I take it back. I'll see the Pixies at DAR. 9:30 is my priority.
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<img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/team_dupek/b4def681.jpg" alt=" - " />
DAR !
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I dont like the idea of a House of Blues in DC. Not cool at all.
I just...dont like it.
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Originally posted by ixkpd-bk:
I dont like the idea of a House of Blues in DC.
But there should be one in Fairfax.
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i think a little competition will do everyone some good.
I mean how long did seth plan on being the ONLY show in town? (not that he minded i am sure!!!)
either way, look at how many cities in this country have multiple venues of the same size. they're surviving!
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Originally posted by le sonick:
i think a little competition will do everyone some good.
I mean how long did seth plan on being the ONLY show in town? (not that he minded i am sure!!!)
either way, look at how many cities in this country have multiple venues of the same size. they're surviving!
What do you mean the only show in town. Nation closed a couple months back, there is the Black Cat (not 1/2 the size, more like 2/3), several other places.
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Originally posted by Mixed Veg:
They want to put it way downtown, who really wants to go there?
I do, It's a cleaner safer place than where the other clubs are
I guess it will have to be subway shows exclusively as there is no way that parking for 3000 will magically appear for some shows.
That's a good thing, for people to be able to take the subway. But if it's next to the convention ctr there's a lot of underutilized parking capacity there at night they could potentially deal for [/b]
Downtown is usually pretty dead at night. As to the subway, good luck getting artists to conform to the metro schedule for their shows.
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The artists who play Jammin Java all seem to be able to stick to an 11 pm end time.
Originally posted by Sir HC:
Originally posted by Mixed Veg:
They want to put it way downtown, who really wants to go there?
I do, It's a cleaner safer place than where the other clubs are
I guess it will have to be subway shows exclusively as there is no way that parking for 3000 will magically appear for some shows.
That's a good thing, for people to be able to take the subway. But if it's next to the convention ctr there's a lot of underutilized parking capacity there at night they could potentially deal for [/b]
Downtown is usually pretty dead at night. As to the subway, good luck getting artists to conform to the metro schedule for their shows. [/b]
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Originally posted by Sir HC:
Originally posted by le sonick:
i think a little competition will do everyone some good.
I mean how long did seth plan on being the ONLY show in town? (not that he minded i am sure!!!)
either way, look at how many cities in this country have multiple venues of the same size. they're surviving!
What do you mean the only show in town. Nation closed a couple months back, there is the Black Cat (not 1/2 the size, more like 2/3), several other places. [/b]
i think we can all agree that the Black Cat and 930 are not in the same general ballpark. BC gets the smaller shows.
Nation was always a niche club, catering to goth, punk, techno and hardcore shows for the most part.
DAR, warner and the other theatres were just that, theatres.
Now if the House of Blues is going to only get shows that would be too big for 930 club then it wouldnt be taking business away from them.
BUT, i am assuming if its like the other HOB's then it will generally book the same type and caliber bands, therefore, making it the OTHER club to see bands like the Roots, Incubus, Interpol, Muse and other bands that are too big for Black Cat but too small for arena shows.
right?
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I bet Seth is going to sell the Club and retire to Boca.
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perhaps seth will let HOB have their stupid Alt-rock and emo punk shows and book strictly GOOD shows!!!!
course, thats probably not good for $$$ butit would be cool for us....til the club went broke. :eek:
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HOB will book the slightly bigger artists that are selling out the 9:30 or doing two night shows.
So basically, kiss half the acts at 9:30 goodbye if this happens.
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Wasn't there talk about opening another branch of the Birchmere in Bethesda or Silver Spring? Do we need that AND a House of Blues?
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Won't some bands prefer to stay with the 9:30 out of loyalty, just like none of us are going to patronize HOB?
Originally posted by you be betty:
HOB will book the slightly bigger artists that are selling out the 9:30 or doing two night shows.
So basically, kiss half the acts at 9:30 goodbye if this happens.
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Hey Seth,
All jokes/snide/ridiculous comments aside, this must be a major blow to you and your business, and I was really sorry to read this. While I'm sure you have your detractors, as far as I can tell, you've done everything right for the area and have stepped up when it looked like no one else would (I look no further than Merriweather). You've made yourself available for comment and abuse from the public, even going as far as providing the forum for the abuse. We certainly won't get anything like that from Live Nation.
I'm just guessing that you've resisted overtures and buyouts from Clear Channel/Live Nation over the years, and unlike Bill Graham Presents, SFX, House of Blues, and everyone else, you've stuck it out. Kudos to you - it speaks volumes to your integrity.
This project is still a couple years out. This isn't an obit, but it's possibly your toughest challenge yet. While the artists will likely have more say in the final determination of who plays the 9:30 versus who plays the House of Blues, the consumers still have a say. So, how can we help?
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steny & vansmack: i'm not sure how much bands determine where they play, i.e. HOB vs. 930. if they want to play other HOBs, they won't be able to leave the DC branch off the tour "out of loyalty". also, tours are often organized by managers and promoters, who are first and foremost businessmen. i suspect that the HOB will try strong-arming into the scene here and be aggressive with bookings in order to carve itself a space.
seth: do let us know what we can do. the 930 is unique.
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Originally posted by Steny Hoyer, Pubic Destroyer:
Won't some bands prefer to stay with the 9:30 out of loyalty, just like none of us are going to patronize HOB?
Originally posted by you be betty:
HOB will book the slightly bigger artists that are selling out the 9:30 or doing two night shows.
So basically, kiss half the acts at 9:30 goodbye if this happens.
[/b]
great thought, rhett. probably true, so long as the right people actually get to do the venue choosing!
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I'd participate in a boycott by default, simply because I have no desire to mingle with the kind of lamers who go to chain nightclubs...
<img src="http://static.flickr.com/11/13338107_5b28542583.jpg" alt=" - " />
By the way, those of you talking about economics like you're Arthur Laffer, and already eagerly hoping that the Wal-Mart of clubs will save you a few bucks from what you're paying now, even before it's built, are completely missing the notion of price inelasticity. In layman's terms, because there are enough lamers out there who will pay any price to see their band no matter what, an additional club does not necessarily mean lower prices.
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it will be many yrs before this place opens. if you go to big cities with many clubs they have to split the acts. which means the clubs have more dark nights or dj nights or local band nights. also get ready to be wanded with a metal detector. i was at hob in hollywood, between bands they showed videos of upcoming bands they were trying to promote. same videos over and over. also the music they played between acts was repeated. sound was real good though.
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I see nothing wrong with the House of Blues. Having seen Nine Inch Nails in Atlantic City in March 2006 I can say that I would frequent one in DC depending on the show. Honestly, I could not imagine today's Nine Inch Nails doing a show at 9:30; never happen. They came to Nissan Pavilion (gag reflex) while on tour around the DC/Metro area. That's just one example out of many.
Competition is good for everyone, no argument there. It allows every venue to use their resources to book the best acts possible and gives the customers more options. What is wrong with that?
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
steny & vansmack: i'm not sure how much bands determine where they play, i.e. HOB vs. 930. if they want to play other HOBs, they won't be able to leave the DC branch off the tour "out of loyalty". also, tours are often organized by managers and promoters, who are first and foremost businessmen. i suspect that the HOB will try strong-arming into the scene here and be aggressive with bookings in order to carve itself a space.
seth: do let us know what we can do. the 930 is unique.
The ones with the say are either booking their own tours or the few who get to a point in their careers where they can speak up and say "Hey, I'd rather play at _________." This is difficult to orchestrate, though. Usually it is whoever gets them first.
Also, it should be noted that the HOB enterprise tries to book the touring band at as many of THEIR venues on the tour as possible. So you'd see maybe six House of Blues dates on a tour and a few clubs here and there. But they'll sweep em up.
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Originally posted by ledooh:
Wasn't there talk about opening another branch of the Birchmere in Bethesda or Silver Spring? Do we need that AND a House of Blues?
Yes, it is opening next to the AFI theater in "downtown" Silver Spring. The 'coming soon' signs are up.
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Originally posted by anarchist:
also the music they played between acts was repeated.
AAARGH!!
*horrified*
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Originally posted by ayates:
Competition is good for everyone, no argument there. It allows every venue to use their resources to book the best acts possible and gives the customers more options. What is wrong with that?
I think it's the fact that Clear Channel (now Live Nation), in the long run, stifles competition with their constant levying of assets to buy competing promoters.
Look at the Top 25 Promoters of 2005. (http://www.billboard.biz/billboard/images/pdf/2005_top25_promoters.pdf) Clear Channel was already nearly 3 times larger than the #2 promoter. By acquiring House of Blues (#3 on the list), they are buying up their competition. My math's not the best, but they have gone from 3 times the size of their next competition to three times the size of the next four combined.
Now they are moving into markets with HoB's where they failed to buy the big promoter in town (Jam in Chicago and IMP in DC/Baltimore to name just a few). They already leverage their country wide venue power to sign acts to play their chain of venues, effectively prohibiting acts from playing venues like the 9:30.
What looks like compeition now, will be a monopoly in 10 years. The resources just aren't the same.
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hopefully they wont oversell shows the way the 9:30 club does
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Originally posted by fatskippy:
hopefully they wont oversell shows the way the 9:30 club does
Which show are you bitter about not getting tickets to?
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Originally posted by eros:
Originally posted by fatskippy:
hopefully they wont oversell shows the way the 9:30 club does
Which show are you bitter about not getting tickets to? [/b]
wait, i thought he was implying that the 930 sells too many tickets so the shows are too crowded - which i disagree with. yes, the club gets packed but never dangerously so. seeing a "big" band in a small club means that your personal space will be infringed upon, deal with it. i've never been to a show at the 930 where you couldn't get in to the main room or find a spot somewhere upstairs. just get there earlier if you want a certain spot.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
While the artists will likely have more say in the final determination of who plays the 9:30 versus who plays the House of Blues, the consumers still have a say. So, how can we help?
One of the best ways to help is to reach out to folks who live or have businesses in the area where they're proposing to put the HOB, and work with them to put pressure on their ANC to get involved in the matter. Normally I am not a big advocate of the ANC mucking up a potential business's application for a liquor license; in some neighborhoods, the ANC is so strong that a business owner has to jump through some serious hoops to just to renew a license. But that's what ANC's are for. If you are against this business, one of the best ways to ensure they won't open (at least in that location) is to sic the ANC on them. The ANC does not win every battle nor do they decide who will be allowed to have a liquor license and who won't, but they can definitely throw so many spanners in the gears that potential licensees give up. No way would HOB open without being able to sell booze.
I'm not recommending people start stirring up the ANC just for the sake of mucking with the HOB but if you live in that neighborhood, you have every right to help shape what kinds of businesses come in. If you don't live in that neighborhood but know someone who does, or someone who owns a business down there, you can certainly tell them about the possible arrival of HOB, how it might negatively impact them and the other businesses that make the city what it is, and let them decide if they'd like to go on record with their ANC.
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no offense, but i think businesses in that neighborhood would be happy to welcome something like HOB which would bring thousands of customers into the area to eat, drink, buy shit, etc ... and if you hate what others have done with fucking over local businesses through the ANC (shiloh baptist v. vegetate, for one), then why would you turn around and do the same thing?
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What we need is a venue that will compete with a venue the size of the Black Cat mainstage...possibly a venue with better sound system and without the 3-step process that they have at the door.
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My dislike of the ANC's power comes from being on the recieving end of their scrutiny for lots of years. I've managed restaurants in the DuPont neighborhood for over a dozen years now and that's a pretty strong ANC to tangle with.
But on a more fundamental level, this is community politics, where individuals really can make a significant difference. And I think that is a good thing. It's too bad that there are not more people actively involved in their ANC's; there might be more balance and consistency in the city overall. But being able to go to a meeting or contact my Council member and voice my opinion is a beautiful thing. And if I don't live in the affected jurisdiction, I don't see anything wrong with explaining the issue to someone who does, and letting them decide if they feel strongly enough to take action on it.
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
Originally posted by eros:
Originally posted by fatskippy:
hopefully they wont oversell shows the way the 9:30 club does
Which show are you bitter about not getting tickets to? [/b]
wait, i thought he was implying that the 930 sells too many tickets so the shows are too crowded - which i disagree with. yes, the club gets packed but never dangerously so. seeing a "big" band in a small club means that your personal space will be infringed upon, deal with it. i've never been to a show at the 930 where you couldn't get in to the main room or find a spot somewhere upstairs. just get there earlier if you want a certain spot. [/b]
I have not lived in this area very long (since August '05). I love the 9:30 and have been there a ton of times since moving here, but I definitely agree with the notion that the club oversells shows.
I have lived in many different parts of the country and seen big bands in small venues in a ton of different towns, and the 9:30 is the only place where the entire main floor can be consistently packed like sardines from corner to corner. Yes, the upstairs is less crowded, but usually not from anywhere that affords any view.
I'm not bitching, I deal with it, get there early, find a spot and stay glued to it, but I'm just pointing out that I do not things have to be that way.
I for one would be happy to pay a higher ticket price for a slightly reduced capacity. I know others would not agree with that, though. I know that a reduced capacity might mean getting shut out of things sometimes, which would suck, but I still think the experience would be better if capacity were reduced just a bit.
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Originally posted by Joe M.:
without the 3-step process that [Black Cat has] at the door.
If I have to waste another 3 seconds on those extra steps, I'm going to lose my mind. BOYCOTT.
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Originally posted by Bags:
Originally posted by Joe M.:
without the 3-step process that [Black Cat has] at the door.
If I have to waste another 3 seconds on those extra steps, I'm going to lose my mind. BOYCOTT. [/b]
It's not the extra steps that bothers me. It's the continued disappointment that the little ticket they give me isn't good for any raffle drawing. Or funnel cakes.
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Originally posted by Tom Servo:
Originally posted by Bags:
Originally posted by Joe M.:
without the 3-step process that [Black Cat has] at the door.
If I have to waste another 3 seconds on those extra steps, I'm going to lose my mind. BOYCOTT. [/b]
It's not the extra steps that bothers me. It's the continued disappointment that the little ticket they give me isn't good for any raffle drawing. Or funnel cakes. [/b]
I was always hoping they were drink tickets.
"First one on the house sir".
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Is there any word on when it'll go up? i read that it says they're going to build it, but the deal isn't signed.. i've seen big bands do theatre's but they don't come through DC. My Chemical Romance is playing The Norva, down in Norfolk, sometime this month but they aren't coming to DC. not that i'd see them, but they're a pretyt big band and it seems like they don't want to play the 930 club, also The Raconteurs have done a string of shows down in Norfolk, Charlottesville, and at the Patriot Center [opening for dylan], but they still didn't hit 930. Maybe the House of Blues is a good thing for "bigger" acts. i think it would be a shame to see it steal acts from 930 and i LOVE 930 oh so much, i don't think this would end 930 but it would hurt it. i'd still go, but if The Raconteurs played the House...i'd go.
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upcoming schedule for House of Blues (Atlantic City)....it should be calle House of Crap.
Sat 12/02/06 Adele Givens
Sat 12/02/06 Tony Rock
Sat 12/09/06 Ciara
Sun 12/10/06 Ice Cube
Wed 12/13/06 GWAR
Wed 12/13/06 The Red Chord
Sat 12/16/06 Chris Porter
Sat 12/16/06 Josh Blue
Sat 12/16/06 Ty Barnett
Fri 12/22/06 Jah Works
Fri 12/22/06 Mystic Rebel
Sat 12/23/06 Twisted Sister
Wed 12/27/06 All Time Low
Wed 12/27/06 Bayside
Wed 12/27/06 Dave Melillo
Wed 12/27/06 The Early November
Thu 12/28/06 Sommore
Fri 12/29/06 Benevento - Russo Duo
Fri 12/29/06 School Of Rock All Stars
Fri 12/29/06 Sticks And Stones
Fri 12/29/06 The Bouncing Souls
Fri 12/29/06 Weston
Sat 12/30/06 Trey Anastasio
Sun 12/31/06 Trey Anastasio
Sat 01/06/07 The Wailers
Fri 01/12/07 War
Sat 01/13/07 The Machine
Fri 01/26/07 "For The Love Of It"
Fri 01/26/07 Beres Hammond
Fri 01/26/07 Marcia Griffiths
Sat 01/27/07 Craig Ferguson
Sat 02/17/07 Slayer
Sat 02/17/07 Unearth
Sat 02/24/07 B.B. King
Fri 03/02/07 Gary Allan
Sat 03/03/07 Eddie Money
Fri 03/16/07 Neil Giraldo
Fri 03/16/07 Pat Benatar
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Originally posted by Steny Hoyer, Pubic Destroyer:
Fri 01/12/07 War
:) hahaha.
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Originally posted by DeathFromAbove1979:
Is there any word on when it'll go up? i read that it says they're going to build it, but the deal isn't signed.. i've seen big bands do theatre's but they don't come through DC. My Chemical Romance is playing The Norva, down in Norfolk, sometime this month but they aren't coming to DC. not that i'd see them, but they're a pretyt big band and it seems like they don't want to play the 930 club, also The Raconteurs have done a string of shows down in Norfolk, Charlottesville, and at the Patriot Center [opening for dylan], but they still didn't hit 930. Maybe the House of Blues is a good thing for "bigger" acts. i think it would be a shame to see it steal acts from 930 and i LOVE 930 oh so much, i don't think this would end 930 but it would hurt it. i'd still go, but if The Raconteurs played the House...i'd go.
The MCR show in Norfolk is for a radio show there, they havent announced a full tour yet. DC badly needs a 2500-3500 seat theater, because I think it does detract bands and tours from hitting the DC area. Today I saw that Taste of Chaos is completely ignoring the south mid-atlantic (from philly to atlanta). I like the venues around DC, but the 930 club is still too small a venue compared to other major markets. Plus, as many have pointed out, if an HOB is built downtown, 930 can become a specialty venue and cater to up and coming bands and indie groups. Not to mention that because 930 is a pretty well-known venue nationally, there will be groups who'll play 930 over HOB because of past experience (example Conor Oberst wont play Clear Channel venues, HOB is now clear channel owned, so forget him playing HOB DC, he'll play 930). Also, if they put it at the Old Convention Center, there are 3 metro stops within 3 blocks, so as long as the city kept the metro open late, parking may not be as big an issue because people can metro in easily.
This may not be such a bad thing.
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HOLY CRAP
look at the house of blues in Chicago:
Sun 12/31/06 Matisyahu
Sun 12/31/06 The Tragically Hip
i hope thats an early / show....cause thats just WEIRD.
edit: i checked, its not..same show and its $145!!!!!
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Originally posted by Joe M.:
What we need is a venue that will compete with a venue the size of the Black Cat mainstage...possibly a venue with better sound system and without the 3-step process that they have at the door.
I would agree with that process if you had to walk down a hall or something. But you get your circus ticket and then turn 90 degrees and present it to the usher who is standing right next to the person who gave you the circus ticket.
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Originally posted by bjmoore:
Originally posted by DeathFromAbove1979:
[qb]Also, if they put it at the Old Convention Center, there are 3 metro stops within 3 blocks, so as long as the city kept the metro open late, parking may not be as big an issue because people can metro in easily.
This may not be such a bad thing. [/b]
"uh yeah, hi, this is joe blow at house of blues ... ummm, we're expecting a couple of thousand people to come to our club, and we were wondering if you could just go ahead and run metro for a few more hours every night now"
:roll:
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See what happens when you let House of Blues take over?
Originally posted by le sonick:
edit: i checked, its not..same show and its $145!!!!!
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part of this inflated price is due to the fact this is a new year's eve show... all venues do this. even the 930 club is in on the take: the Greyboy Allstars are playing both dec 30 and 31, yet the shows cost $35 vs $55 (i suspect this is fueled in part by greater demand for entertainment that night so one can charge more, and bands and staff wanting more to work that night)
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ANCs may be a pain in the ass, but they represent community power at its most basic. May they royally fuck up House of Blues ever coming to the District.
Some of you guys keep saying "competition is good" like it's some kind of mantra, without any idea of what you are talking about. What huge national chains do is come into a new market and pulverize the local businesses with the help of their infinitely deeper pockets. In effect they then create a partial or total monopoly, which enables them to jack up prices. Monopoly is bad.
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Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
What huge national chains do is come into a new market and pulverize the local businesses with the help of their infinitely deeper pockets.
My theory on our already-decimated Chinatown is that within 5 years it'll be nothing but that arch, and a P.F. Chang's. Oh and Hooters will still say Hooters in Chinese on the front.
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Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
Some of you guys keep saying "competition is good" like it's some kind of mantra, without any idea of what you are talking about. What huge national chains do is come into a new market and pulverize the local businesses with the help of their infinitely deeper pockets. In effect they then create a partial or total monopoly, which enables them to jack up prices. Monopoly is bad.
Well put. This isn't the Black Cat moving to a bigger space or Snailhook working the rounds with small shows in the area building up a nest egg to compete with the 9:30 for 2500 person shows. That's competition.
If you liked what Clear Channel did to the radio stations from 1996 on, you're gone love what Live Nation does to the DC concert scene....
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Originally posted by twangirl:
Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
What huge national chains do is come into a new market and pulverize the local businesses with the help of their infinitely deeper pockets.
My theory on our already-decimated Chinatown is that within 5 years it'll be nothing but that arch, and a P.F. Chang's. Oh and Hooters will still say Hooters in Chinese on the front. [/b]
I've already been saying this for the last 2 years. Ever since the movie theater and all the other stores took over. The only thing that's Chinatown is the arch and maybe the express NYC bus ;) It's going to be a sad day when Chinatown Express Restaurant goes bye-bye, but thankfully not when that CVS goes. That has to be the worst one ever!
I will admit, that theater is nice and convenient compared to that old dinosaur at Union Station. I can do without Clyde's and Strike.
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com)
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Chinatown's always been a blink-and-miss-it kinda place, but I do remember back in the 1980s you'd be leaving the 9:30 club around 3 or 4 am (on a two band night both the opener and the headliner often played two sets, into the early morning). You'd pop uptown to Big Wong or somesuch place up on H Street, and it would not only still be open, but totally packed with Chinese families who did shiftwork, eating their middle-of the night lunch. A little green tea and an incredibly good, cheap Chinese meal were often just the ticket after a long night of sweat and loud music.
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Originally posted by bjmoore:
Originally posted by DeathFromAbove1979:
Is there any word on when it'll go up? i read that it says they're going to build it, but the deal isn't signed.. i've seen big bands do theatre's but they don't come through DC. My Chemical Romance is playing The Norva, down in Norfolk, sometime this month but they aren't coming to DC. not that i'd see them, but they're a pretyt big band and it seems like they don't want to play the 930 club, also The Raconteurs have done a string of shows down in Norfolk, Charlottesville, and at the Patriot Center [opening for dylan], but they still didn't hit 930. Maybe the House of Blues is a good thing for "bigger" acts. i think it would be a shame to see it steal acts from 930 and i LOVE 930 oh so much, i don't think this would end 930 but it would hurt it. i'd still go, but if The Raconteurs played the House...i'd go.
The MCR show in Norfolk is for a radio show there, they havent announced a full tour yet. DC badly needs a 2500-3500 seat theater, because I think it does detract bands and tours from hitting the DC area. Today I saw that Taste of Chaos is completely ignoring the south mid-atlantic (from philly to atlanta). I like the venues around DC, but the 930 club is still too small a venue compared to other major markets. Plus, as many have pointed out, if an HOB is built downtown, 930 can become a specialty venue and cater to up and coming bands and indie groups. Not to mention that because 930 is a pretty well-known venue nationally, there will be groups who'll play 930 over HOB because of past experience (example Conor Oberst wont play Clear Channel venues, HOB is now clear channel owned, so forget him playing HOB DC, he'll play 930). Also, if they put it at the Old Convention Center, there are 3 metro stops within 3 blocks, so as long as the city kept the metro open late, parking may not be as big an issue because people can metro in easily.
This may not be such a bad thing. [/b]
i dont think it will be a terrible thing for 930, it might take a few shows away, but i think it will still get a decent chunk and im positive it wont turn 930 Club into the new Black Cat, and it might not take ANY business away from the Black Cat, unless HOB makes extra long freedom fries.
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I don't care if they come. The HOB is just another place for shows. I love the 9:30 and always hope the bands I want to see end up going there, but I've been to HOB and as far as I'm concerned, a good club show is a good club show no matter where it is. Yea, its cheesy-looking, but who cares once the band comes on. If the beer prices are OK, the view of the stage is clear, and the sound is good, I'll go to a show anywhere. A DC HOB would likely be similar to the 9:30 (I'm guessing - HOB are different sizes from city to city) except with a flashy interior and a not-as-cool staff. But that wouldn't stop me from seeing a great band there.
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<img src="http://static.flickr.com/21/28394641_db0415aae2_m.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Hey Seth,
This project is still a couple years out. This isn't an obit, but it's possibly your toughest challenge yet. While the artists will likely have more say in the final determination of who plays the 9:30 versus who plays the House of Blues, the consumers still have a say. So, how can we help?
IMO, it's not so much boycotting HOB as making sure that the 9:30 shows do well. i.e. go to more shows and start bringing more friends, specifically the kind that drink a lot.
If a new venue means more people go see live music (or the same people see more live music), then it doesn't necessarily hurt the club. HOB would be taking business equally from all the other bars/restaurants/theaters that its new patrons otherwise would have been attending that night.
I do think we need another large venue in the city, but this wouldn't be my top choice.
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
part of this inflated price is due to the fact this is a new year's eve show... all venues do this. even the 930 club is in on the take: the Greyboy Allstars are playing both dec 30 and 31, yet the shows cost $35 vs $55 (i suspect this is fueled in part by greater demand for entertainment that night so one can charge more, and bands and staff wanting more to work that night)
Everyone involved gets more for new years. Bands often double or triple their fee, and when I used to do PAs for gigs, we would double the price because everyone else made more, why not us?
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Originally posted by Tom Servo:
Originally posted by vansmack:
Hey Seth,
This project is still a couple years out. This isn't an obit, but it's possibly your toughest challenge yet. While the artists will likely have more say in the final determination of who plays the 9:30 versus who plays the House of Blues, the consumers still have a say. So, how can we help?
IMO, it's not so much boycotting HOB as making sure that the 9:30 shows do well. i.e. go to more shows and start bringing more friends, specifically the kind that drink a lot.
If a new venue means more people go see live music (or the same people see more live music), then it doesn't necessarily hurt the club. HOB would be taking business equally from all the other bars/restaurants/theaters that its new patrons otherwise would have been attending that night.
I do think we need another large venue in the city, but this wouldn't be my top choice. [/b]
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Originally posted by Tonorro:
What the District is considering is not fair and open competition. It basically amounts to subsidizing HOB to compete with local venues that have paid their dues over the years through thick and thin.
With the 9:30 club, the Black Cat, DC 9, the RnR Hotel, Birchmere, etc., we have an excellent scene here that let'us enjoy talented bands that need exposure. No band passes up DC because of lack of a suitable venue.
The music scene here doesn't need a HOB here. The only people who would profit from it would be HOB.
Seth, do you know how we can weigh in on this with the decision makers? They need to know that this should not happen just because some big name outsider developer/promoter wants it. They need to understand that we do not want this and we do not think it is fair.
Originally posted by Tom Servo:
Originally posted by vansmack:
Hey Seth,
This project is still a couple years out. This isn't an obit, but it's possibly your toughest challenge yet. While the artists will likely have more say in the final determination of who plays the 9:30 versus who plays the House of Blues, the consumers still have a say. So, how can we help?
IMO, it's not so much boycotting HOB as making sure that the 9:30 shows do well. i.e. go to more shows and start bringing more friends, specifically the kind that drink a lot.
If a new venue means more people go see live music (or the same people see more live music), then it doesn't necessarily hurt the club. HOB would be taking business equally from all the other bars/restaurants/theaters that its new patrons otherwise would have been attending that night.
I do think we need another large venue in the city, but this wouldn't be my top choice. [/b]
[/b]
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folks...
I very much appreciate everybody's thoughts, and always marvel at the unassisted insight that most of you have into our business
the Post had gotten hold of a very old bit of info & ran with it...I will let everyone know if it becomes a true matter of concern
for now, if you want to write the Mayor's office, that would be appropriate
it's a free country and I, as much as any good capitalist, would never suggest that any company doesn't have a right to pursue whatever business plan they see fit...my only gripe would be if the DC government helped them do it to the detriment of those that have been here without that assistance
thanks again
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the music venue is only a small part of the scenerio. the main part is the hotel + retail space. when the new convention ctr went up there were many entities vying to build the facility. it never materialized. i think dc gov was also going to build one. it is not unheard of for local govs to give tax incentatives to outside entities to lure them in. writing the mayor and telling him not to build a $120m hotel/retail space/music venue so that a local promoter can make a a fraction of what the hob facility will bring in is a waste of time. maybe seth can build a hotel. one of those boutique hotels. $500 a night. i don't know what dc charges for hotel tax. but alot of cities/states charge as much as 25% of base hotel rate.
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While the HOB plan may or may not come to fruition, this is a good opportunity for you (9:30 owners) to reconnect with your loyal fan base by revisiting the exclusivity contracts that prohibit some bands from playing both DC and Baltimore shows. This has upset a large number of B'more fans. I have been coming to DC from Baltimore to see shows at 9:30 since Joyce was the bartender and The Factory was the biggest band in town. However, it would be nice to have the option to see more bands in either city. You'd be surprised at how many of us old punks from B'more would come to more shows up here if given the chance. Look at the crowds at Sonar shows like Social D.
I love and support the 9:30 and I have great respect for it's historic impact on the scene but ultimately, the music, not the venue, is what brings us out. As true fans we will go wherever the music leads us.
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Even notwithstanding the club, the idea of the DC government giving incentives for a corporation to come in and build hotel and retail space is absolutely ridiculous, given the booming real estate market and the huge glut of hotel space, and worth writing the Mayor all in itself. DC officials often act like a bunch of hayseeds meeting their first city slicker when it comes to making deals with big business, witness the way they bent over for Major League Baseball.
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Originally posted by PunkabillyDaddy:
You'd be surprised at how many of us old punks from B'more would come to more shows up here if given the chance.
so...let me just see if I have this straight...
if more shows played Baltimore, you would go to more shows in DC
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"up here" refers to Baltimore if you're from Baltimore. He wants and would go to more shows in Baltimore, which he is claiming is made impossible due to alleged exclusitivity arangements.
Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
Originally posted by PunkabillyDaddy:
You'd be surprised at how many of us old punks from B'more would come to more shows up here if given the chance.
so...let me just see if I have this straight...
if more shows played Baltimore, you would go to more shows in DC [/b]
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since Nation closed, I've noticed a lot of shows go to Baltimore instead of DC, which traffic wise is a pain in the ass at rush hour to get to. another DC venue would likely bring more bands I want to see closer to town
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They have a House of Blues in Chicago, and the concert scene there still manages to thrive.
Originally posted by vansmack:
If you liked what Clear Channel did to the radio stations from 1996 on, you're gone love what Live Nation does to the DC concert scene.... [/b]
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Not that this would be the case here, but when HOB moved into New Orleans (with the help of the local gov't) the local folks got screwed. In particular, friends of mine who run a bar next door that used to sell food and have little bits of live music from time to time. HOB moved in with a restaurant and bigger shows and bunch of rules regarding what types of businesses could be in their area. No food, no music, no competition from neighbors.
I've only been to the HOB down there a few times and won't actually go back. I've only been to one 9:30 Club show that I thought was over sold, but the HOB shows are ridiculously oversold. Oversold like lift your feet and not only will you not fall, you'll move with the crowd. No HOB for me.
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the party is over kids. live nation owns house of blues. the current city paper has an ad for the upcoming who concert (didn't they do a farewell tour 25yrs ago?). the ad states the producers are imp and live nation. $ makes strange bed fellows. check the ad.
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the people that buy those tours for Live Nation were kind enough to include us in the next Who show, after they felt we did a good job on the Virgin Festival
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Originally posted by nova_nola:
Not that this would be the case here, but when HOB moved into New Orleans (with the help of the local gov't) the local folks got screwed. In particular, friends of mine who run a bar next door that used to sell food and have little bits of live music from time to time. HOB moved in with a restaurant and bigger shows and bunch of rules regarding what types of businesses could be in their area. No food, no music, no competition from neighbors.
I've only been to the HOB down there a few times and won't actually go back. I've only been to one 9:30 Club show that I thought was over sold, but the HOB shows are ridiculously oversold. Oversold like lift your feet and not only will you not fall, you'll move with the crowd. No HOB for me.
Please go home to your beloved New Orleans. I'm sure they are missing you greatly.
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Originally posted by Steny Hoyer, Pubic Destroyer:
"up here" refers to Baltimore if you're from Baltimore. He wants and would go to more shows in Baltimore, which he is claiming is made impossible due to alleged exclusitivity arangements.
Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
Originally posted by PunkabillyDaddy:
You'd be surprised at how many of us old punks from B'more would come to more shows up here if given the chance.
so...let me just see if I have this straight...
if more shows played Baltimore, you would go to more shows in DC [/b]
[/b]
So (s)he is saying that I would go to fewer shows at the 930 if there were more shows in Baltimore (which the 930 usually doesn't promote)?
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Originally posted by Sir HC:
So (s)he is saying that I would go to fewer shows at the 930 if there were more shows in Baltimore (which the 930 usually doesn't promote)?
doesnt IMP hold some sort of stake in the booking (and therefore profiting) of concerts at Sonar?
Sonar, a good venue, would be a good place to make up some lost 930 money. i'd certainly go there more if there were less hip-hop and hard rock shows there. (Hinder just isnt my thing!)
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Originally posted by le sonick:
Originally posted by Sir HC:
So (s)he is saying that I would go to fewer shows at the 930 if there were more shows in Baltimore (which the 930 usually doesn't promote)?
doesnt IMP hold some sort of stake in the booking (and therefore profiting) of concerts at Sonar?
Sonar, a good venue, would be a good place to make up some lost 930 money. i'd certainly go there more if there were less hip-hop and hard rock shows there. (Hinder just isnt my thing!) [/b]
From what I understand, some are IMP helped, probably not the DJ shows.
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Originally posted by Steny Hoyer, Pubic Destroyer:
They have a House of Blues in Chicago, and the concert scene there still manages to thrive.
Clear Channel has only owned HoB for about 5-6 months now, but nonetheless:
Jam is probably the biggest of the local promoters that didn't get bought out, which makes Chicago different than most of the other markets," says Gary Bongiovanni, editor of the concert trade publication Pollstar. "In Cleveland, Belkin sold; Bill Graham sold in San Francisco; Delsener-Slater sold in New York; the Electric Factory sold in Philadelphia. They all became a part of this larger company, where Jam hung in there as one of the last of the independents."
Last year, Jam won a $90 million verdict against Clear Channel in a highly publicized antitrust suit involving motor sports, after testimony that included Clear Channel executives boasting that they'd love to "crush, kill and destroy" Jam. The verdict was overturned on appeal, but Clear Channel reportedly paid a hefty settlement to Jam before it could bring its case back to court. (Neither side will comment on the amount.)
Linkage (http://www.jimdero.com/News%202006/HouseofBluesAcquisition.htm)
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so are they building one or no??
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Originally posted by Alec:
so are they building one or no?? [/QUOTE}
positive contribution as always, alec!
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Originally posted by chokeychicken:
Originally posted by Alec:
so are they building one or no?? [/QUOTE}
positive contribution as always, alec! [/b]
haha what? i dont want them to build on... thats why i was asking.
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Perhaps some of the shit acts that come through 930 will opt for HOB and 930 will have more oppurtunity to take in better acts. We might steal a bit from Baltimore, but I guess those will be the breaks.
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Why doesn't Seth franchise The Nightclub 09:30 to other markets?
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Originally posted by Aphex:
Perhaps some of the shit acts that come through 930 will opt for HOB and 930 will have more oppurtunity to take in better acts. We might steal a bit from Baltimore, but I guess those will be the breaks.
steal what from Baltimore? haha.
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Originally posted by Surly Bonds:
Why doesn't Seth franchise The Nightclub 09:30 to other markets?
Because it "is an amalgamation of characters and misfits that could never be duplicated."
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this whole house of blues thing is karma for your stupid smoking ban. :mad: :mad: :mad:
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Originally posted by le sonick:
this whole house of blues thing is karma for your stupid smoking ban. :mad: :mad: :mad:
We get two quality venues because we told smokers to shove it? Actually that's exactly karma, you're correct.
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As has been stated about 50 times in this thread, these shit acts generate a great deal of the club's revenue. While most people on this forum don't like them, the masses do and will pay anything to see them. (see: incubis threads). Those shows are guaranteed sell-outs and losing them would be a huge blow to the club.
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Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
Originally posted by brennser:
Let the boycott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott) begin!!!!
until there's a band there you want to see [/b]
My thoughts exactly!!! They won't have to be their favorite bands either and many of them will think nothing of paying a premium.
Please keep this thread handy so we can point fingers. :roll:
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Hmmmm, if it's not the Blues Brothers it's the Indians. Wonder how this will all play into the scenerio? Seth, get your posse together because they'll coming in for an ambush from all sides!
The Hard Rock Cafes (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/061207/hard_rock_cafe_seminole_tribe.html?.v=29)
Will this be Geronimo's revenge on the Bush family? (As much as I would love that, I sure hope they don't take it out on the rest of us!)
My guess, the music will fade away and the stakes will be piled high on the tables. Bet they will be smoking in there too, with over-priced, yet tax free cigarettes.