930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: kosmo vinyl on May 26, 2004, 05:13:00 pm
-
WARNING: This is a technology post. No Music, Sports or Politics content.
So I'm thinking about getting an new Personal Computer, either Wintel or Apple, that I can use as the center of my Home Entertainment system. Basically instead of going out and buying a TIVO, new Stereo Receiver, DVD burner, etc. Just get the properly equipped PC instead of having to deal with seperate components.
Anyone had any success with such a set-up? Or was it a disater. I know Microsloth has a Windoze Media Center product, but it's Microsolth. Any rumblings on the Sony VAIO Media PC machines? Does anyone even have a product that runs on OS X? I've also heard gooding things about an open source Linux solution.
Lots of question which can of course be ignored and I'll just keep looking for myself...
-
I've thought about the Linux solution, but I have no need for a tivo, just was going to do it for fun.
-
Well, you know where I stand in this court, so I wll just tell you my experience.
I have set-up 4 clients and 2 family members with such systems.
The majority of my clients requested the Sony PCV-RZ50CG Series which is a Windows XP MC machine. I have also setup a couple of the Gateway 710X Media Center.
I would recommend a stand-alone machine and then get a kick ass TV/Monitor. Each compnay offers an all-in-one machine, but I think the size and price of PLasma's and LCD's will continue to drop and you will want a bigger screen before you will need a new computer.
What might help with expanding my recommendations (and what I ask my clients) is if this machine will serve as your primary entertainment unit for your family room or will it be a work-like machine for your video editing, music creation, graphics work, while you use a different set-up for your basic TV viewing?
-
I like the gateway because it's the first one i've seen that sits horizontally...making it seem more integrated with your stereo system. I haven't used it at all, though.
-
Originally posted by Chip Chanko:
I like the gateway because it's the first one i've seen that sits horizontally...making it seem more integrated with your stereo system. I haven't used it at all, though.
The Profile 5XL? You're absolutely right about its function by being horizontal, but I think the monitor is attached. The other downside to it (and I don't know who had the bright idea) is that it's not available with Win XP Media Center. Someone should lose their job for that.
-
If I were going to go the media center pc route then I'd probably choose the Gateway, specifically this one (http://reviews.cnet.com/Gateway_FMC-901X_Family_Room_Media_Center/4505-3118_7-30612233.html) , which runs windows media center, sits horizontally like a stereo component and does not have the monitor attached. It would be a fun project indeed. However, my wife can barely work the setup I have now as it is. Adding a computer to the home theater picture would make her miserable.
Maybe the whole setup is easier to operate than I've envisioned. I don't know. It wouldn't be a problem for me, but possibly for the wife. Smackie, could you shed some light on on the ease of operation of one of these systems?
-
that's the one i was talking about.
personally, though, i'd be more apt to just get something like the Slim Devices Squeezebox for streaming from my computer. supposedly the next ipod revision (and future Mp3 players in general) may have more tivo-like capabilities built in...so you pop the player into a set-top box and it acts as a DVR/Photo Center/Mp3 player integrated into your stereo. Then you pop it out to take it with you.
Originally posted by chaz:
If I were going to go the media center pc route then I'd probably choose the Gateway, specifically this one (http://reviews.cnet.com/Gateway_FMC-901X_Family_Room_Media_Center/4505-3118_7-30612233.html) , which runs windows media center, sits horizontally like a stereo component and does not have the monitor attached. It would be a fun project indeed. However, my wife can barely work the setup I have now as it is. Adding a computer to the home theater picture would make her miserable.
Maybe the whole setup is easier to operate than I've envisioned. I don't know. It wouldn't be a problem for me, but possibly for the wife. Smackie, could you shed some light on on the ease of operation of one of these systems?
-
As far as I understand it, Apple has falllen behind with this. Right now some kind of adaptor is needed to watch TV on a mac,
something like this:
http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=296380&store=macmall&source=mwbfroogle&adcampaign=email,mwbfroogle (http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=296380&store=macmall&source=mwbfroogle&adcampaign=email,mwbfroogle)
Then there is a lag, so it is not a solution for gamers.
If it were not for the added complexity I would probably do it to gain an extra TV out of one of my Macs....
I am hoping Apple will revolutionise this industry one day too. I have heard that media edition of XP is crap though? Is it, Vansmack?
-
Well i'm not looking for something to watch tv on a computer, the long term plan is to build a entertainment center around the computer. i.e. use the pc as the tuner, dvd player/recorder, receiver, etc. the advantage i see is being able to upgrade a sound card verses buying a new amplifier.
it's a shame that Apple hasn't developed Media Center software for OSX, it's something that you'd think the Mac HW would excel at... And third party companies aren't going to do so because the marketshare isn't there.
while the sony, gateway, etc machines are uber powerful intel machines, it would be nice to be order them with a non-soundblaster sound card. the m-audio sound cards kicks the soundblaster to the curb with regards to quality. which means i'm probably going to have to build one from scratch.
-
i run osx, what's this linux solution, though? alot of linux aps can be run on osx using fink
-
Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
i run osx, what's this linux solution, though? alot of linux aps can be run on osx using fink
http://freevo.sourceforge.net/ (http://freevo.sourceforge.net/)
http://www.mythtv.org/ (http://www.mythtv.org/)
there may be more
-
freevo apparently runs on x11. awesome, i'll have to do some more research on that
-
Originally posted by chaz:
Smackie, could you shed some light on on the ease of operation of one of these systems?
Sure. They're not as easy to use as Tivo, though they are designed with the same idea in mind.
They look just like a Windows XP PC, then you click a button on a special remote or a link on you Start Menu and a menu comes up that looks alot like Tivo's menu. This menu gives you the option to watch My Videos, View My Pictures, listen to My Music, Watch TV, and Record TV. You can also use multiple monitors and/or run multiple windows at the same time. The windows can run either computer programs (internet, email, word processing) or media (listen to music, watch TV or a DVD, view pictures) or both at the same time.
I've done a few differenct set-ups with them. One as video editing computer for a law firm and many as the main entertainment unit for a house. I've also set a super sweet multi-monitor setup for a super rich guy that was over the top. He had a desk in the room where the computer was setup with a 20 inch LCD monitor, then a separate 40 inch LCD on the wall. But he had DirecTV in video 1, an X-Box in Video 2 and the Windows XPMC machine in video three. Here's why:
1) Your TV source. While the system is great for watching DVD's, if you have digital cable or Satellite, it can be a pain in the ass, especially with Satellite. Same with TiVo, unless the digital tuner is built in, you're limited to recording what your watching, and I don't feel as though the Windows based DVR is anywhere near as slick as the TiVo system.
2) Multi-tasking. How may things do you do at once. If you just watching TV and checking email, it's fine. If you want to watch TV, record a CD and check your email, you're bound to run into problems. I did run a test where I was watching the baseball games and following my fantasy baseball team in separate windows on a 40 inch plasma and damn near bought the system myself because it was so cool.
3) The types of devices you want to run with it. In nearly every case, the client decided to keep his stereo tuner because the output was much better than the PC could boast. The other reason was that his turntable was old school and wouldn't work with the PC without extra hookups. These things can get very complicated, but essentially most folks considered the PC their DVD player in the stereo unit. I'm sure the A/V rack models described in previous posts are better about RCA jack compatibility, but I haven't had the opportunity to install one yet. I understand that ZT Group has made a fantastic model, but I haven't seen it yet.
4) What exactly you want to with it. The reason I asked Kosmo what he wanted to do is because a lot of people bought the systems thinking it would do everything, but realized later that when they were doing one thing, they couldn't do another and this became frustrating. For example, one client spent a few hours video editing and setting up a home movie collage to give to folks at a family reunion. This was great and easy - he did it all with no problem. Of course his wife who wanted to watch TV couldn't because he was using the PC's sound and pictures. Then he wanted to burn 20 copies - well guess what? He couldn't watch TV either when he was burning because of the resources being used - so you have to be careful. If you're super wealthy and have a play room - this is the shit! If you want it for your front room, you're better off with a PC/Laptop with a DVD burner and a TiVo in your A/V unit because unless you live by yourself, you're going to piss people off.
So I hooked up the machine as video 3 so he could listen to his digital music through his stereo and do video editing or surf the net and watch TV on his 40 inch screen, but when he was editing and burning, he could watch DirecTV without interupting his viewing. He also has a wireless keyboard and mouse, which is essential in this setting. Those that are familair with TiVo know that a Sereis 2 Tivo for DirecTV would have solved many of his problems and wouldn't have required the MC PC, but until that comes out this was the best solution.
-
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
Well i'm not looking for something to watch tv on a computer, the long term plan is to build a entertainment center around the computer. i.e. use the pc as the tuner, dvd player/recorder, receiver, etc. the advantage i see is being able to upgrade a sound card verses buying a new amplifier.
This is something I've been dreaming about for a long time too (Gateway used to have a model 5 years ago, but it was very expensive and poorly marketed), but I think you will experience tha same RCA / Digital / Optical jack problems that I've run into in setting these things up. If only the whole world could be USB or FireWire, but what of your old turntables? I can't give those up!
They're designing these PC models to be more like devices to plug into a tuner instead of replacing the tuner, which is a shame.
-
This little beauty is on my wish list.
<img src="http://www.m-audio.com/images/en/callouts/big/firewire_audiophile_callout.jpg" alt=" - " />
M-Audio Firewire Audiophile (http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.main&ID=77b8b59a677defc67c40d33428b4014a) also available as a cheaper USB version. Although I think the firewire would be a better choice given the transfer speed.
This would handle a turntable and have a turntable with digital optical output which I would like to findout more about.
-
I'm still pondering options... i.e. cutting edge (Linux), Windoze or punting (DVD Recorder w/ TIVO).
Here's an interest Steve Jobs quote regarding a Media Center Apple.
Here's a story that we would never have believed if someone told us. Steve Jobs has been quoted saying that Apple is not interested or even trying to go down the same path Microsoft has gone with Windows XP Media Center Edition. Believe it!
Steve Jobs speaking at a financial analysts meeting:
Asked about Apple's interest in selling Macs that could serve up the video recording abilities Microsoft offers with its Windows XP Media Center Edition, Jobs joked that Apple was instead focused on melding the computer with a toaster.
"I never get mine quite brown," said Phil Schiller, vice president of marketing. "We can do an up-sell for bagels."
Jobs said that he doesn't see such products creating a big market.
"We're not going to go that direction," Jobs said. "There is a small audience that likes this."
Jobs said there are several problems with the Media Center concept, in particular the wide divergence in the way people want to watch television as compared with how they use a computer. "Generally what they want to view on television has to do with turning their mind off," he said.
Jobs said that video recording is processor intensive and is best left to a device that is not doing other things such as playing games or running spreadsheets. "When I want to record 'The West Wing,' I want to make damn sure it records 'The West Wing,'" he said.
I find this amusing considering that Macs are marketed as Video Editing workstations all the time. And just how hard is to imagine a mac serving only as a PVR when nessecary.
And a huge word of warning if you are electronic gadgets freak, stay away from eHomeUpgrade (http://www.ehomeupgrade.com/) it appears to be an EVIL EVIL site
-
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
This little beauty is on my wish list.
That's beautiful! I'll look more into that.
As far as Jobs, I kind of agree with him right now, but if I were Apple, I wouldn't be ignoring it. I don't have a Win XPMC machine (and I'm a fan on Windows) because of its limitations and because TiVo Series 2 is so damn beautiful. Work together to combine them (TiVo runs on Linux or Unix, I forget which) and I'll be sold for life.
If you already have a DVD editing computer, the TiVo with DVD only really allows you to save TV shows to a DVD, but right now you cannot edit them (even to remove commercials) and I'm not sure if that's worth it's price right now.
-
Originally posted by vansmack:
TiVo runs on Linux
-
the inspiration for wanting to get a media happy computer was the price of those combo tvio/dvd recorders... it sure would be nice to offload on to dvd what the tvio has recorded. but for the price one is on the way to new puter which in theory should function the same way and is expandable. but a little more research is needed it appears, before i punt and go with the home appliance.
-
Wow Vansmack..thanks for the detailed explanation. I don't know if I really need a HTPC, but I love to tinker. I just dig the gear and setting it up.
I'm curious...is this what you do for a living and if not what do you do if you don't mind me asking? Also, whats in your A/V rack in your main viewing/listening station at home?
-
my 2 cents:
i'd go w/ a small form factor barebones combo (shuttle is kicking out some beauties). definetley an intel mobo/proc, although i love amd, because noise will be a problem for a home theater setup. intel chipsets have acceptable onboard audio, so that eliminates a sound card...
for video, i really really want a radeon all-in-wonder (the new remote is chez cool), and the 9600 is actually in my price range...but i've heard the video capture ain't all that. the hauppauge pvr line seems to be the favorite personal video recorder for the buck among the a/v nerds.
although dvd-r's are cheap at ~$100, i'd wait for the high-density writing drives to come out.
my os would be win2k,if you wanna get fancy toss in a *nix file server w/ samba and a wireless router and yer the coolest kid on the block. if you got the time and the know-how, you can save a bundle by diy. fuck sony, apple or any of the other overpriced package manufacturers. pricewatch (http://www.pricewatch.com) is your friend.
-
the shuttle looks like a good starting point for a media pc...
<img src="http://sys.us.shuttle.com/Images/Buy/Full/Zoom_ST61G4.jpg" alt=" - " />
-
Originally posted by chaz:
Wow Vansmack..I'm curious...is this what you do for a living and if not what do you do if you don't mind me asking? Also, whats in your A/V rack in your main viewing/listening station at home?
I posted a diagram of my A/V unit some time back, but I have changed it immensely since then. I currently run a Pioneer Tuner with a Sony 5-Disc CD/DVD changer, a TiVo with DirecTV and a TiVo Series 2 with the Home Media Option (I used to only own the Series 2, then when I got DirecTV, they offer the two tuner DVR which is a must if you have DirecTV), an X-Box w/ wireless live, a 32 inch Sony WEGA and wireless network with two laptops (one old just as an internet machine, one "newer" with a DVD burner) and a old server with a 60 Gig USB HD attached for music and photos.
The Home Media Option on TiVo runs over the wireless network and takes all of the music/photos off the USB HD and plays them through my A/V system. If it weren't for the HMO, I would have switched to a Win XPMC some time ago, but until I get a 40 inch plasma or LCD screen, I can't see switching over when I can do video editing on the laptop and my current screen isn't large enough for multiple Windows. The TiVo handles my digital music brilliantly.
Oh, and I'm a lawyer for a University. I've always been a tech head, which my last job took full advantage of, splitting my time, but now I'm 100% lawyer. When I moved back west, I consulted for a few months until I figured out what I wanted to do. One of my first clients was a law firm where I designed a network and a media room. When I finished that, two of the attorneys hired me to do their homes and word got around. I decided I wasn't ready to give up on my law degree yet so I stopped consulting, took a "real" job and do odds and ends jobs here and there. I still beta test for TiVo and Microsoft (I was Mac based until 1994, now I am Win based).