930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: kosmo vinyl on June 17, 2005, 07:52:00 am
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Seeing as the complaint that people aren't "dancing" at shows is continually voiced, I would like to know the point of view behind it.
What kind of dancing is expected from the audience? Are they suppose to be doing The Shag, Electric Slide, Charleston, Ack-Breaky Heart, or The Robot, etc at the show? Or perhaps something choreographed by Twayla Thrope?
Are people attending the same show in a different city more likely to be seen "dancing"?
In the past did more people dance at shows?
Personally at soldout 9:30 shows it's hard enough to move just enough to see around the people in front of me to even consider "dancing" without stepping on toes or bumping into those near me.
So why does this complaint always surface.... This Boy Wonders.
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
Are people attending the same show in a different city more likely to be seen "dancing"?
probably. esp in cities where drinks are cheaper....
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Dancing is fine as long as they're not dancing right in front of me! :mad:
Seriously, I don't think a sold out 930 lends itself to dancing. Swaying side to side, or gently bopping is about all someone could do without pissing someone off. Besides, a lot depends on the artist. If I go to a Shane MacGowan show for example I'm expecting be be shoved around a bit by some drunk, or worse, some moron pretending to be drunk, so I just get in that abuse accepting mode. But at David Gray or somebody else a little more sedate it's going to piss me off.
Merriweather, Nissan (God forbid) or even Nation for that matter generally have spaces for the 'dancers' to accumalate, but the 930 is so intimate it's hard to accomodate that really.
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I think the complaint lends itself specifically to specific genres of music where dancing is not only acceptable but expected. Very few people were dancing at Kraftwerk, and while you're right about the room thing when the show is sold out, you can still do something. People at LCD/M.I.A. were dancing. jumping, etc.
There's some situations where I'd rather not see dancing. At the pixies show last year there was this large woman two rows away who moved into the aisle to do some type of weird hybrid hippie/50's dance. No.
On the whole I think the dancing comment is meant to imply "doing more than just standing there, arms crossed, staring at the band," which seems to be the pose of choice for the D.C. elite.
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I just saw an Inspiral Carpets DVD from the Manchester GMEX from like 1990...people were totally rocking out and basically jumping up and down frantically. It's kind of interesting to see shows like that from that time period. The entire floor was just a throbbing mass of people pogoing and it looked pretty cool. Same deal with a Charlatans UK show from that era from their DVD too. The fact is that I'd MUCH rather have a crowd stand around than mosh. I don't want to have to fend for my life in a massive crowd surge. It's cool to have room enough to dance, like I was able to do at the last Orbital show. I'll never forget this one girl at the Beastie Boys' Lollapalooza gig in Chicago who was a hoot to watch...she just did her thing as if she was up on stage with them, but the nice thing was that she wasn't bugging anyone or being obnoxious about it. I think it's nice when the audience is into the show and the band can feed off that energy, but sometimes that's just not how it works. Have to say that the audiences in Philly are pretty great that way, at least what I've seen. Us folks in the DC area work too damn hard and by the end of the day sometimes we just need to chill out a bit.
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standing with one's arms crossed is comfortable, especially if you have to stand in one place for any length period time.
someone comes to the club it's been a long day and the headline band hits the stage at 10pm, why is so wrong for them to stand there and enjoy the show? can't someone just show up hang go home and tell their friends about the great show they went to?
isn't it possible that the elite ones are the ones moaning about the people just there to experience the concert in their own way?
why does the way the audience react lessen the concert going experience for others... and don't say it's because the bands performance is going to lessened otherwise thats one lame excuse for a band to offer. kinda like blaming your drummer for playing the wrong backing track..
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I think it might be the hostile glaring that often accompanies the standing that people are objecting to. Personally, I don't literally jump up and down while watching a band, but I usually will do at least some head-bobbing and/or dancing in place. I don't care if people want to just stand there, but don't look at me like I just killed your puppy because I choose to move around a little. Although in the grand scheme of concert behavior, standing and glaring is definitely less bothersome than loud chattering and constant picture-taking, so I'll take it.
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right.
i'm only a little bit of a dancer, but sometimes, as previously said, if the music lends itself to it and i'm really into the show i'll move around a little more.
most people don't dance, though, and the friends that i usually attend shows with are way conservative with that kinda stuff. except for the kings of leon black cat show last fall--we were dancing like no others. that was a fun show.
but it can be obnoxious.
example # 1:
soft complex opening for ratatat, last february. two VERY slutted-up girls (looking very out of place as well) in tons of makeup and low cut tops came into the show--which was pretty empty for soft comlpex--and stood right in front of me and started dancing around with each other. as if they were in a dance club trying to attract guys. they kept turning around and smiling at me and going "woo!" and everyone was kind of annoyed, and i death stared them down for quite some time. then they started flailing around and going "omigod! the singer is SOHOT...he's kinda liek vince VAUGHN!!!!111oneeleven" he was glaring at them too, and they just kept cheering as if he was checking them out.
it wasn't the DANCING per se that was terrible; it was the obnoxious factor they added to it.
so, folks. if 'yer gonna dance...keep it kleen.
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the audiences at the UK shows were also probably fueled by something more than alcohol...
and does a band really adjust it's performance based on the energy of the crowd? most bands do the same setlist nightly, say the same things only with the locality changed, if the audience isn't reacting it either means the band isn't doing it's job and should only work harder.
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I've found that as I approach 40, it helps to sort of dance in place just a little bit to help keep the legs from getting too stiff from standing in place for 4 hours. I think the key here is to respect the space of others.
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maybe, but it DOES really depend on the crowd.
a lot of the little sceneies around here are too worried about looking stupid to venture anything close to a sway.
but i wish bands promoted it more...
i mean the brunettes, openers for rilo kiley a couple of weeks ago, had a dance contest for christs sake!
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couple of thoughts
going to shows in ireland in my teens and early 20s was completely different from going to shows here for the last 10 years - as bearman described in his post, lots of jumping around/pogoing even in small venues (there was one Therapy? gig in a small club in McGonagles that was particuarly insane)
I don't know if the difference in crowd response is Europe V US or age-based - most bands I go to I like to just stand there and listen but some music is meant to be jumped around to - I was particuarly dissapointed noone really moved at the Mclusky show last year - then again the Hives and Undertones were great fun with lots of jumping and jostling up front
then there the other extreme which I have only encountered here in the US - "the pit" or whatever its called - when I went to see Ministry a few years ago I was amazed at the level of aggression and violence
jumping around is one thing but trying to piledrive someone into the ground is another
my 2c
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
the audiences at the UK shows were also probably fueled by something more than alcohol...
and does a band really adjust it's performance based on the energy of the crowd? most bands do the same setlist nightly, say the same things only with the locality changed, if the audience isn't reacting it either means the band isn't doing it's job and should only work harder.
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well one thing has changed for the better is what shows people choose to crowd surf at... at one point in the 90s it didn't matter what show you were at people felt the need to crowd surf. the people crowd surfing at one Detroit Charlatans show was just doing it for the sake of doing it. then again most of the crowd surfing i've seen lately is at shows which attract high schoolers, so it's become a rite of passage..
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My favorite dance was the gent in front of me at the Bob Dylan surprise 930 show last year. He seemed to be perfectly happy sitting on the floor, rocking back and forth, wearing headphones and scribbling aimlessly on the inside of his Rand McNally atlas.
I naturally kept my arms crossed and glared at him (that's my dance, it's called "the scorn"). I was happy that he was sitting down though since he was pretty tall. Kudos to him and his undiagnosed mental illness.
I haven't seen much dancing at concerts recently, my general rule is that you are only allowed to spazz out as much as the actual people playing the music and some acts set that bar pretty high.
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Originally posted by kcjones119:
My favorite dance was the gent in front of me at the Bob Dylan surprise 930 show last year. He seemed to be perfectly happy sitting on the floor, rocking back and forth, wearing headphones and scribbling aimlessly on the inside of his Rand McNally atlas.
that's really funny. maybe he just took a couple-too-many microdots?
i think i've already told this story on here, but at a stones show in 98 i saw this 50-60 yr old guy strip naked in the opposite end zone in the orange bowl and writhe around on the ground, screaming the lyrics to "can't always get what you want" ... security finally showed up and had a really tough time getting him to put his clothes back on ... absolutely hilarious
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Originally posted by HoyaParanoia:
Originally posted by kcjones119:
My favorite dance was the gent in front of me at the Bob Dylan surprise 930 show last year. He seemed to be perfectly happy sitting on the floor, rocking back and forth, wearing headphones and scribbling aimlessly on the inside of his Rand McNally atlas.
that's really funny. maybe he just took a couple-too-many microdots?
i think i've already told this story on here, but at a stones show in 98 i saw this 50-60 yr old guy strip naked in the opposite end zone in the orange bowl and writhe around on the ground, screaming the lyrics to "can't always get what you want" ... security finally showed up and had a really tough time getting him to put his clothes back on ... absolutely hilarious [/b]
I was also standing next to a drunken troll at the GBV concert who kept throwing things off the 2nd floor railing and waving at people, but I guess Robert Pollard's antics gave him the freedom to do so.
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i've had a number of bad concert experience usually with just one or two people and not an entire audience. it's amazing how the bad events are unfortunately more memorable than the show... it most often involves yacking without any concern for those in the area.
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Originally posted by kcjones119:
I was also standing next to a drunken troll at the GBV concert who kept throwing things off the 2nd floor railing and waving at people, but I guess Robert Pollard's antics gave him the freedom to do so.
i think you kind of throw any expectations for reasonable etiquette out the door at a GBV show
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this is a really relevant question for punk/hardrock shows. in the district, esp at Warehouse, folks may bob their heads, but that's about it. in baltimore, folks will pogo/"mosh"/slamdance, and have a good time about it. they also talk to strangers and have a sense of community about it that dc totally lacks.
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Originally posted by kcjones119:
My favorite dance was the gent in front of me at the Bob Dylan surprise 930 show last year. He seemed to be perfectly happy sitting on the floor, rocking back and forth, wearing headphones and scribbling aimlessly on the inside of his Rand McNally atlas.
Kudos to him and his undiagnosed mental illness.
speaking of freaks at shows, does anyone remember the middle-aged spaz that used to frequent 930 and Black Cat shows in the mid to late 90s that would always show up and dance solo right in the middle of the audience? i saw him at almost every show i went to (he particularly liked bands with females or female leads) and he was always way into the band, no matter who was playing. i remember him coming to a man or astroman show (or maybe it was servotron??) at the black cat wearing a space helmet he had made out of tin foil. that guy was nuttier than a squirrel banquet.
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Originally posted by chimbly sweep:
in baltimore, folks will pogo/"mosh"/slamdance, and have a good time about it. they also talk to strangers
That's because they're all chasing the dragon.
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Originally posted by joz:
speaking of freaks at shows, does anyone remember the middle-aged spaz that used to frequent 930 and Black Cat shows in the mid to late 90s that would always show up and dance solo right in the middle of the audience? i saw him at almost every show i went to (he particularly liked bands with females or female leads) and he was always way into the band, no matter who was playing. i remember him coming to a man or astroman show (or maybe it was servotron??) at the black cat wearing a space helmet he had made out of tin foil. that guy was nuttier than a squirrel banquet.
http://www.930.com/cgi-bin/ubb-cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile;u=00001826 (http://www.930.com/cgi-bin/ubb-cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile;u=00001826)
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speaking of freaks at shows, does anyone remember the middle-aged spaz that used to frequent 930 and Black Cat shows in the mid to late 90s that would always show up and dance solo right in the middle of the audience? i saw him at almost every show i went to (he particularly liked bands with females or female leads) and he was always way into the band, no matter who was playing. i remember him coming to a man or astroman show (or maybe it was servotron??) at the black cat wearing a space helmet he had made out of tin foil. that guy was nuttier than a squirrel banquet.
that's crazy larry, or rainman, or whatever you want to call him. he's still around, i saw him at a holly golightly show a while back and some friends of mine saw him at the dirtbombs show last month. he definitely does love him some female fronted and/or garage bands. he's a weirdo, but lord does he know his stuff. actually not a bad guy to have a conversation with. i'm sure he agrees with me, because often that conversation will be with himself.
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yup he does attend shows with a female in the band... Your Pal's old band the Milk-o-matics wrote a song about him. not sure if they ever released it though...
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Originally posted by BookerT:
that's crazy larry, or rainman, or whatever you want to call him.
thanks bookerT for clearing that up...he actually started a conversation with me at a jesus lizard show once then proceeded to talk with himself for the rest of the night.
and why is it that all the crazy guys are named larry? the town i moved from had not one, but TWO, crazy guys named larry...one was "larry the liar" and the other was "larry, the bisexual homerotic cowboy", the latter of which used to hump pool sticks in the bars around town and was a chef at the local swingers club.
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How was his cooking?
Originally posted by joz:
Originally posted by BookerT:
that's crazy larry, or rainman, or whatever you want to call him.
thanks bookerT for clearing that up...he actually started a conversation with me at a jesus lizard show once then proceeded to talk with himself for the rest of the night.
and why is it that all the crazy guys are named larry? the town i moved from had not one, but TWO, crazy guys named larry...one was "larry the liar" and the other was "larry, the bisexual homerotic cowboy", the latter of which used to hump pool sticks in the bars around town and was a chef at the local swingers club. [/b]
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer:
How was his cooking?
Originally posted by joz:
Originally posted by BookerT:
that's crazy larry, or rainman, or whatever you want to call him.
thanks bookerT for clearing that up...he actually started a conversation with me at a jesus lizard show once then proceeded to talk with himself for the rest of the night.
and why is it that all the crazy guys are named larry? the town i moved from had not one, but TWO, crazy guys named larry...one was "larry the liar" and the other was "larry, the bisexual homerotic cowboy", the latter of which used to hump pool sticks in the bars around town and was a chef at the local swingers club. [/b]
[/b]
don't know...i have his business card if you need catering for a "private" function.
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I agree with all of your points.
At last night's Bloc Party show a friend and I were standing pretty close to the stage and everyone around us stood perfectly still (well, except for taking photos OC!) the entire time. It irritated me because I feel like that behavior belonged in the back or in the upper level of the club.
I say, let's keep the "stiffs" away from the front!
Also, I couldn't help contrasting the show with the LCD/MIA show (which was also sold-out). I stood in basically the same location, and everyone around me was moving around and having fun. People were actually INTERACTING with each other!! (My friend and I did note at the time that this behavior was unusual for DC.)
-C
Originally posted by j_lee:
I think the complaint lends itself specifically to specific genres of music where dancing is not only acceptable but expected. Very few people were dancing at Kraftwerk, and while you're right about the room thing when the show is sold out, you can still do something. People at LCD/M.I.A. were dancing. jumping, etc.
There's some situations where I'd rather not see dancing. At the pixies show last year there was this large woman two rows away who moved into the aisle to do some type of weird hybrid hippie/50's dance. No.
On the whole I think the dancing comment is meant to imply "doing more than just standing there, arms crossed, staring at the band," which seems to be the pose of choice for the D.C. elite.
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I say let's rope off a little area on the side or in the back so the dancers can do their stuff.
Let the people who came to SEE and LISTEN to the band be up front.
Originally posted by Caesar:
I agree with all of your points.
At last night's Bloc Party show a friend and I were standing pretty close to the stage and everyone around us stood perfectly still (well, except for taking photos OC!) the entire time. It irritated me because I feel like that behavior belonged in the back or in the upper level of the club.
I say, let's keep the "stiffs" away from the front!
Also, I couldn't help contrasting the show with the LCD/MIA show (which was also sold-out). I stood in basically the same location, and everyone around me was moving around and having fun. People were actually INTERACTING with each other!! (My friend and I did note at the time that this behavior was unusual for DC.)
-C
Originally posted by j_lee:
I think the complaint lends itself specifically to specific genres of music where dancing is not only acceptable but expected. Very few people were dancing at Kraftwerk, and while you're right about the room thing when the show is sold out, you can still do something. People at LCD/M.I.A. were dancing. jumping, etc.
There's some situations where I'd rather not see dancing. At the pixies show last year there was this large woman two rows away who moved into the aisle to do some type of weird hybrid hippie/50's dance. No.
On the whole I think the dancing comment is meant to imply "doing more than just standing there, arms crossed, staring at the band," which seems to be the pose of choice for the D.C. elite.
[/b]
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Hey, just because I'm bobbing my head and smiling doesn't mean I'm NOT "seeing and listening" to the band. It means I'm having a good time and getting into the music. I agree about the obnoxious dancers who are either really plastered or trying to dance sexy for the boys, but a lot of us just like to get into the show and move around a little, being of course careful not to intrude on anyone else. The sullen standers belong, I think, in the balcony - that seems to be the dominant culture up there. If you're going to shove your way past me to stand right in front of the stage (this means you, 7 foot tall men everywhere), you have to expect that the more enthusiastic/moving/dancing fans will be up there.
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Just because someone is not dancing doesn't necessarily make them sullen. It makes them sensible. :p
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Haven't heard about Larry in a while. I haven't seen him in even longer. Like GGW, I considered that Dupek was Larry.
I think I was at that Servotron show where he was dancing around in the hat. Was that around 97-98?
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer:
Just because someone is not dancing doesn't necessarily make them sullen. It makes them sensible. :p
Is that a quote from from Footloose?
:p
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well, i don't have a problem with those standing with their arms crossed as long as they will say hi back to me, and smile every once and a while.
i'm not the obnoxious one at shows, but it's nice to smile to your neighbor and get a smile back.
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For those interested...
Dancing Larry's website (http://members.aol.com/bugpartyzone/bug.html).
I think nkotb found this a few years ago.
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Originally posted by econo:
Dancing Larry's website (http://members.aol.com/bugpartyzone/bug.html).
this is from his beehive & the barracudas page:
<img src="http://members.aol.com/t16to16/sexzombie.gif" alt=" - " />
pretty funny...
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Originally posted by you be betty:
well, i don't have a problem with those standing with their arms crossed as long as they will say hi back to me, and smile every once and a while.
i'm not the obnoxious one at shows, but it's nice to smile to your neighbor and get a smile back.
buying drinks for everyone around you will encourage smiles
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so what you're all trying to say is that when you go out to a club or venue to see a live performance, the only important thing is how you are perceived by others (what you're doing, how you're acting, looking, moving)? i guess the music is unimportant, compared to the style of a generation. how sad, you bunch of geriatric victims, struggling towards a world of bubbles and big band backed showtunes. go jump into the "cocoon" pool and get your ass muscles grooving.
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no, what i was saying was that usually when I go to shows, the people around me are the ones concerned about how they are rubbing off--which explains the lack of dance-age. i was wishing that more people just went with the flow of the music and did what was fun, as opposed to feeling like they needed to look cool.
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Every show is going to be made up of different people from different lifestyles. Shows on Monday's won't be as crazy as Friday's. Not to get too weird but every show is organic in a way that you never know how the band is feeling and what kind of crowd will show up and when the show starts what the interaction between the two will lead to. I don't mind if at some shows people aren't dancing and others are, it's a nice variety.
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
This Boy Wonders.
It's the year 2000 glitch. At both 9:30's in the 90's I've seen dancing or a little more than moving around.
Not so much since.
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http://www.oneloudernyc.com/2005/06/gigocracy.html (http://www.oneloudernyc.com/2005/06/gigocracy.html)
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Originally posted by brennser:
[QB]
then there the other extreme which I have only encountered here in the US - "the pit" or whatever its called - when I went to see Ministry a few years ago I was amazed at the level of aggression and violence
jumping around is one thing but trying to piledrive someone into the ground is another
my 2c
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
[qb]
Then you most definetely saw me because I was the most violent person in that pit....Nobody stood a chance. :mad:
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when has someone's dancing made the show less enjoyable for someone next to them?
when has someone's lack of dancing made the show les enjoyable for someone next to them?
i am guessing the former leads 100000000000 to 1
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My take is that the Bloc Party show was good without many people dancing and being into it, but it would've been great if the crowd as a whole, at least the bit at the front was really moving about for it. Not necessarily dancing, but more of a moving of arms and heads. There was a girl close to me at the barrier who had come all the way from Montreal to come to this concert. She was rocking out a good bit, and as I was doing the same, she and I had a couple of moments where we would glance at each other and smile as if to say..."hey this is really great". When the entire crowd up at the front is like that, it lends a great sense of community about the whole thing. It's not just you enjoying the show anymore, you're part of something more.
I must stress however that what i just described is the polar opposite of the moshing/pit phenomenon, which I see as the epitome of not paying any attention at all to the band.
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You should have totally said "Bonjour."