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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: JGatz on March 24, 2004, 08:06:00 pm
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If it happens in the old country you know it's coming to DC.
Ireland's Pioneering Smoking Ban Starts on Monday
Wed Mar 24, 2004 07:54 AM ET
By Gideon Long
DUBLIN (Reuters) - Ireland is set to stamp out smoking in bars and restaurants starting Monday in the biggest such crackdown yet seen in Europe but one that has angered the owners of some of the country's renowned pubs.
The ban is being viewed a test case for the rest of the European Union and comes in the wake of similar campaigns in several U.S. cities including New York.
From midnight Sunday, it will be illegal to smoke in virtually all workplaces, closed public spaces and on public transport, with fines of up to $3,825 for transgressors.
The government says the ban will help save some of the 7,000 lives lost to smoking-related diseases in Ireland each year and will, for the first time, protect the country's entire workforce from passive smoking.
But critics say it will diminish Ireland's famous pub culture, drive tourists from the Emerald Isle and cost hundreds of jobs in the catering, entertainment and tobacco industries.
Above all, they say, it will turn publicans into policemen, forcing them to confront defiant smokers who, perhaps emboldened by drink, refuse to heed the "no smoking" signs plastered across the walls of their pubs.
"We're deeply disappointed that... the government insists on railroading this ban through in its current form," said the Vintners' Federation of Ireland (VFI), which represents some 6,000 publicans across the country.
A BLUEPRINT FOR EUROPE
The ban, driven into law by Health Minister Micheal Martin, has wide public support. A recent survey by pollsters TNS shows that twice as many people say they are more likely to visit a smoke-free pub than a pub where smoking is allowed.
Governments across Europe are looking to it as a test case, and the EU's health commissioner David Byrne says he would like to see the experiment in his homeland mirrored across the bloc.
Non-EU Norway is introducing a similar ban from June 1.
But other countries favor a more conciliatory approach, coaxing employers into providing smoking areas on their premises rather than forcing them to ban it.
"We prefer to encourage voluntary agreements rather than imposing laws," Danish health ministry official Lene Brondum Jensen told Reuters in Copenhagen.
"We think there is a greater possibility that people will abide by something if they succumb to it voluntarily rather than being forced to do something."
Ireland estimates it spends one billion euros a year treating its population of just under four million from the effects of tobacco.
IRELAND LEADS THE WAY
It is ironic that Ireland, not known for its healthy lifestyle, is leading the rest of Europe in banning smoking.
The Irish are among the region's heaviest drinkers and, thanks in part to a high-cholesterol diet, have one of the bloc's highest incidences of heart disease.
For some in Ireland, a cigarette is as much a part of the pub experience as lively banter and a pint of Guinness. It is all part of what the Irish call "the craic" (the fun).
But reformers say it is time to move on.
Michael O'Shea, Chief Executive of the Irish Heart Foundation, says he hopes the ban will herald a new era for Irish society -- "an era when health is set as a priority over other interests."
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Does anyone know what someone can do to support a smoking ban in DC? Who do I have to email, who can I give money to, what do I have to sign, etc?
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mail the money to me.
i'll buy some cigarettes with it :)
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Originally posted by cale:
Does anyone know what someone can do to support a smoking ban in DC? Who do I have to email, who can I give money to, what do I have to sign, etc?
Smoke Free DC (http://www.smokefreedc.org/)is the organization working for the ban.
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Originally posted by cale:
Does anyone know what someone can do to support a smoking ban in DC? Who do I have to email, who can I give money to, what do I have to sign, etc?
Are you a resident?
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Originally posted by cale:
Does anyone know what someone can do to support a smoking ban in DC? Who do I have to email, who can I give money to, what do I have to sign, etc?
Give the money to your favorite local bar. If NYC is any indication, after a smoking ban goes into effect they will need it.
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Yes, last time I was in NYC, I couldn't find a single bar to go to. They had all shut down, because people had completely stopped going to them. I ended up having to hang out for three nights at a Chuck E. Cheese.
Originally posted by keithstg:
Originally posted by cale:
Does anyone know what someone can do to support a smoking ban in DC? Who do I have to email, who can I give money to, what do I have to sign, etc?
Give the money to your favorite local bar. If NYC is any indication, after a smoking ban goes into effect they will need it. [/b]
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theres a Chuck E Cheese in NYC?
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
theres a Chuck E Cheese in NYC?
Well Chuck E is a New York rat...why wouldn't there be?
I found tons of bars in NYC to go to, someone is full of shit.
As for the smoking ban in Ireland, most of the folk we know over there think it's a good thing....I didn't read the whole article because I knew the story, but did it also mention that they are trying to pass a law to make it illegal to be drunk in a bar in Ireland? Not sure where they're going with that one, but on the surface it sounds pretty stupid....get pissed up then go out on the street so you don't get picked up by the guards...no drunks in the boozers, but tons of them on the streets!....huh?
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being selfish it would be great to come home and not stink like cigarette smoke, but understand from a bar owners point of view the financial risk of a smoking ban.
plus, as it was stated elsewhere, can you imagine the dc nimby's reaction to half the black cat or 9:30 club emptying out for a smoke on the curb between sets?
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If the non-drunk in a bar law is passed in Ireland, I guess a bar will be the only place to go to be around sober people. ;)
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
theres a Chuck E Cheese in NYC?
Well Chuck E is a New York rat...why wouldn't there be?
I found tons of bars in NYC to go to, someone is full of shit.
As for the smoking ban in Ireland, most of the folk we know over there think it's a good thing....I didn't read the whole article because I knew the story, but did it also mention that they are trying to pass a law to make it illegal to be drunk in a bar in Ireland? Not sure where they're going with that one, but on the surface it sounds pretty stupid....get pissed up then go out on the street so you don't get picked up by the guards...no drunks in the boozers, but tons of them on the streets!....huh? [/b]
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Originally posted by nkotballs:
[QB] Yes, last time I was in NYC, I couldn't find a single bar to go to. They had all shut down, because people had completely stopped going to them. I ended up having to hang out for three nights at a Chuck E. Cheese.
Selfishly speaking, I prefer the non-smoking bars. But, ask an average bartender or bar owner in NYC and they will tell you that the legislation has greatly hurt their business, and many are closing.
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I have to say, this is one issue I'm really out there on, since I'm an asthmatic and someone else's smoking really does effect my health and shorten my life.
I'm sorry if some bars shut down, that's sad and it sucks. But it's even more sad that what is sustaining their business is people standing around killing themselves smoking. What's even sadder is that their smoking affects the rest of us. And what's most sad is that there's a social cost to all of this.
I have to say I'm really super glad that fewer people smoke now, and I can't wait till nobody does. Let's be honest, if it weren't for the deep pockets of the tobacco firms and their teams of lobbyists, smoking would have been illegal *everywhere* years ago.
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So are you saying the 15% of NYC residents who actually smoke are no longer going to bars?
Maybe the 85% of non-smokers are going to bars more often. I know I would be more likely to partake in the bar scene if they were all non-smoking.
What if a survey was taken and it found 70% of bar-goers preferred a nonsmoking enviroment? Who would be selfish then? The bartender, the 30% who were being catered to, or the 70% majority who were being ignored?
And it's not like the world would be a worse place if all bars were to close. People with any creativity at all would still find ways to socialize and enjoy themselves. And creative, resourceful bar owners would find other ways to make money.
Originally posted by keithstg:
Originally posted by nkotballs:
[QB] Yes, last time I was in NYC, I couldn't find a single bar to go to. They had all shut down, because people had completely stopped going to them. I ended up having to hang out for three nights at a Chuck E. Cheese.
Selfishly speaking, I prefer the non-smoking bars. But, ask an average bartender or bar owner in NYC and they will tell you that the legislation has greatly hurt their business, and many are closing. [/b]
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
plus, as it was stated elsewhere, can you imagine the dc nimby's reaction to half the black cat or 9:30 club emptying out for a smoke on the curb between sets?
I think this may be one of the bigger issues faced by N.Y. Angry neighbors now that so many bar patrons are hanging out on the street late into the night.
I don't know, I loved a recent show at the no-smoking DC9. And a sold out show at the Black Cat can be a real killer (The Shins show was like being in a smelly fog). Still, this comes from someone who largely quit smoking about nine months ago, so 'no smoking' places just help me out.
I think this should be decided by the marketplace, though. If there's a call for non-smoking venues, they will open up. If it's a worker's safety issue, it's like high-rise window-cleaning -- if you think you'll fall from those high benches, get another job.
What is going to bother me is if a lot of folks who are clamoring for no smoking bars in DC are VA and MD residents. As it is, DC residents have little say over what happens in their own city. This should be strictly a D.C.-decided issue.
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And DC should have no right to tax VA or MD people who work in the District, and pay their own income taxes in their state of residence.
What is going to bother me is if a lot of folks who are clamoring for no smoking bars in DC are VA and MD residents. As it is, DC residents have little say over what happens in their own city. This should be strictly a D.C.-decided issue. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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Originally posted by Got Balls?:
[QB] So are you saying the 15% of NYC residents who actually smoke are no longer going to bars?
Originally posted by nkotballs:
No, what I am saying is that bar patrons are drinking less, and leaving fewer tips, which harms bar employees. Like I said, I can understand, and on some level appreciate the smoke free atmosphere. The point remains the same, bars and their employees in NYC have suffered due to this law. I'm not going to argue the merits of all bars closing or not.
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Originally posted by Got Balls?:
And DC should have no right to tax VA or MD people who work in the District, and pay their own income taxes in their state of residence.
[/QB][/QUOTE]
DC does not tax VA or MD people who work in the District.
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Originally posted by keithstg:
No, what I am saying is that bar patrons are drinking less, and leaving fewer tips
that sounds awfully hard to prove. especially the tips part. its not like all of a sudden everyone if flocking to hoboken to go drink.
personally, i like the no smoking ban, half the time i feel like shit after a show, even if i don't drink. i was sick at the shins, and that just made matters worse. and i was a big smoker for years.
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as long as we are legislating everything, can we outlaw talking at shows, it is a hazard to my mental health
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Originally posted by keithstg:
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
And DC should have no right to tax VA or MD people who work in the District, and pay their own income taxes in their state of residence.
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DC does not tax VA or MD people who work in the District. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Correct, and hence VA and MD folks should ban smoking in their own towns/cities/counties --where they pay taxes.
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Originally posted by chimblysweep:
I'm sorry if some bars shut down, that's sad and it sucks. But it's even more sad that what is sustaining their business is people standing around killing themselves smoking. What's even sadder is that their smoking affects the rest of us. And what's most sad is that there's a social cost to all of this.
so, bars are open simply to cater to smokers?? i'm sure alcohol has nothing to do with bars staying open then, eh?
it's a bar for goodness sakes. . .
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I don't know, I loved a recent show at the no-smoking DC9.
Do you mean it was a non-smoking show? Because the one and only time I was at DC9, the smoke was thick and nasty, and due to that I decided I'm not interested in going back very often. Have they changed their policy? (I can't see that happening.)
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Originally posted by Juliaz3:
I don't know, I loved a recent show at the no-smoking DC9.
Do you mean it was a non-smoking show? Because the one and only time I was at DC9, the smoke was thick and nasty, and due to that I decided I'm not interested in going back very often. Have they changed their policy? (I can't see that happening.) [/b]
OOOPS, my bad. I meant The Warehouse, which is no smoking all the time. Sorry for the confusion.
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Nor should they.
I was just playing devil's advocate. I'm ok with MD or VA residents NOT having a say in a DC smoking ban, just as I'm supportive of no commuter tax.
Originally posted by keithstg:
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
And DC should have no right to tax VA or MD people who work in the District, and pay their own income taxes in their state of residence.
[/b]
DC does not tax VA or MD people who work in the District. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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Originally posted by pollard:
as long as we are legislating everything, can we outlaw talking at shows, it is a hazard to my mental health
<img src="http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/1219.gif" alt=" - " /> <img src="http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/143.gif" alt=" - " />
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i just think the owners should decide. Seems to me that if its such a small population that actually smoke, then wouldnt a NON smoking bar be a huge hit. THEN, we wouldnt have to force everyone else to be non smoking. The truth is is WILL hurt business to ALL bars.
I stayed out in Tempe Arizona for a month last year and we went to Phoenix bars cause you could smoke in them.
I just dont see why the non smokers cant just make thier own bars. its really ridiculous.
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Originally posted by Got Balls?:
supportive of no commuter tax.
Is there a commuter tax?
American taxes confuse the hell out of me. I didnt think there was any issue working out of your resident state?
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There is currently no commuter tax in this metro area, but it was up for discussion a couple weeks ago. They threw it out.
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Originally posted by Ball Girl:
There is currently no commuter tax in this metro area, but it was up for discussion a couple weeks ago. They threw it out.
I found this:
http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20031202-100819-6058r.htm (http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20031202-100819-6058r.htm)
So there probably should be some commuter tax, but it should be paid by the other states, but the other states would never agree to it. I didnt realise that 70% of personal income tax earned in DC ended up being paid out of state. That is a pisser.
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I would disagree. Income taxes are collected to use on services for the betterment of the residents. Why should someone have to pay income tax to a city/state in which they do not reside, and thus do not receive any of the benefits that the residents of that city/state do receive?
Originally posted by mark e smith:
Originally posted by Ball Girl:
There is currently no commuter tax in this metro area, but it was up for discussion a couple weeks ago. They threw it out.
I found this:
http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20031202-100819-6058r.htm (http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20031202-100819-6058r.htm)
So there probably should be some commuter tax, but it should be paid by the other states, but the other states would never agree to it. I didnt realise that 70% of personal income tax earned in DC ended up being paid out of state. That is a pisser. [/b]
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There's no commuter tax in DC, but it comes up again and again to help account for the large shortfalls of revenues to the city. Like other cities, there is a large number of folks who work here but live outside of the city limits (about 70% of the District's workforce).
The biggest problem DC faces, in my opinion, is the huge amount of non-taxed entities that work in and utilize the city (federal government, any international governments, etc). It's a significant revenue loss -- 42% of DC real estate is federally owned and hence tax free; 11 % is owned by embassies, nonprofit groups and others exempted from taxation, city officials say. That's more than half of the commercial real estate in the city.
There have been commuter taxes been in other cities (such as New York). There's some form of commuter tax in 41 states because cities where people work have to pay for the services used by employees (police, fire, emergency, transportation infrastructure, etc). Commuter taxes are not uncommon, but there has been a ban instituted by Congress for D.C. only.
Taxes for commuters do not increase, by the way. The apportioning among the jurisdictions changes.
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Originally posted by Got Balls?:
I would disagree. Income taxes are collected to use on services for the betterment of the residents. Why should someone have to pay income tax to a city/state in which they do not reside, and thus do not receive any of the benefits that the residents of that city/state do receive?
So even though you spend almost a third of your time in a city, you don't benefit from any of its government services? I am not saying that there should be taxes paid to the city, but I don't think the issue is so cut and dry.
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The Norva has a big pit out back for smokers. They have a bar set up out there too. Many were still inside even in between sets. Most smokers just chain-smoked 'bout 3 cigs before heading back in for the show. I hear it's brutal out there in the winter months. Either they suck it up and don't smoke or embrace the cold.
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Will a VA resident call for a Fairfax ambulance when he/she tumbles down the stairs at work? Will the Montgomery County Sherrif's dept send in a proportionate number of cops to its residents who work here when there's an emergency midday on a Wednesday?
If you work in DC, you spend probably 40% of your time here, using services for the betterment of your work life.
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
I would disagree. Income taxes are collected to use on services for the betterment of the residents. Why should someone have to pay income tax to a city/state in which they do not reside, and thus do not receive any of the benefits that the residents of that city/state do receive?
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Originally posted by El Tee:
Either they suck it up and don't smoke or embrace the cold.
strange opinions coming from a smoker ;)
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At least you would think some money would come in for transportation, you know road and rail that commuters use to actually get to their jobs. It could be used as an explanation for DC raods.
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Why does everything have to be so extreme...if a bar wants to allow smoking then why not? They could generate revenue by charging "smokers bars" a monthy levy of $10,000 or something like that, but only allow 15% of bars smoking permits, seeing as some one came up with the magic number of smokers being 15% of the population. Just an idea from a simple northern boy...who's been a non-smoker for over 25 years. I wouldn't go anywhere near a non-smoking bar personally, but smokers should be given the opportunity to enjoy a pint and a smoke too.
I think they should allow smoking in the workplace though...so everytime some twat lights up all us non-smokers can go sit outside and do nothing for 20 minutes out of every hour. :D
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I work 8.5 hours a day, lunches included. Subtract out vacation days and holidays, and I estimate I work 1938 hours of a possible 8760 hours of the year. Thus, that's 22% of my total time, not 40%. And I use the resources of a federally owned building, none of which comes from DC taxes.
But as a DC resident, I probably spend 90% of my total time in the District. Still, I don't agree with a commuter tax.
Originally posted by Bags:
Will a VA resident call for a Fairfax ambulance when he/she tumbles down the stairs at work? Will the Montgomery County Sherrif's dept send in a proportionate number of cops to its residents who work here when there's an emergency midday on a Wednesday?
If you work in DC, you spend probably 40% of your time here, using services for the betterment of your work life.
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
I would disagree. Income taxes are collected to use on services for the betterment of the residents. Why should someone have to pay income tax to a city/state in which they do not reside, and thus do not receive any of the benefits that the residents of that city/state do receive?
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
They could generate revenue by charging "smokers bars" a monthy levy of $10,000 or something like that, but only allow 15% of bars smoking permits, seeing as some one came up with the magic number of smokers being 15% of the population.
Bingo. sounds like a great plan. I can see how people dont want to go to a bar and get all smoked out, but is it really necessary to have NO bars that you can smoke in? i just think thats a little harsh. Levying a tax and limiting the number seems to be a fair way to me. Although, passing a law is easier for the fat guys in charge, eh?
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I work 8.5 hours a day
really? would you say that under oath? :p
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
I think they should allow smoking in the workplace though...so everytime some twat lights up all us non-smokers can go sit outside and do nothing for 20 minutes out of every hour. :D
Post of the week!!!
It was such a drag watching all the smokers hanging out doing their thing. It also seemed the best work related gossip was always being discussed at those confabs when I was a non smoking bystander.
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Originally posted by Got Balls?:
I work 8.5 hours a day,
You forgot commuting time within the district. I bet that is going to be at least an hour each day. that would take you closer to 1/4 of your time.
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Come on, though. It's not about time spent at work alone. Suburbanites expect to drive our roads, have traffic lights, police service, street lights, cleaned sidewalks, litter cans, parking checkers (or maybe not?!), and more. It's the whole package and they aren't paying up.
I say, until we get our commuter tax, let's just shut it all off downtown. no cops, no lights, no cleaning, nothin'. Commuters don't want to pay up? Give 'em what they paid for.
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
I work 8.5 hours a day, lunches included. Subtract out vacation days and holidays, and I estimate I work 1938 hours of a possible 8760 hours of the year. Thus, that's 22% of my total time, not 40%. And I use the resources of a federally owned building, none of which comes from DC taxes.
But as a DC resident, I probably spend 90% of my total time in the District. Still, I don't agree with a commuter tax.
Originally posted by Bags:
Will a VA resident call for a Fairfax ambulance when he/she tumbles down the stairs at work? Will the Montgomery County Sherrif's dept send in a proportionate number of cops to its residents who work here when there's an emergency midday on a Wednesday?
If you work in DC, you spend probably 40% of your time here, using services for the betterment of your work life.
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
I would disagree. Income taxes are collected to use on services for the betterment of the residents. Why should someone have to pay income tax to a city/state in which they do not reside, and thus do not receive any of the benefits that the residents of that city/state do receive?
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
Post of the week!!!
It was such a drag watching all the smokers hanging out doing their thing. It also seemed the best work related gossip was always being discussed at those confabs when I was a non smoking bystander.
I think some people start smoking just to get in on those breaks
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Originally posted by chimblysweep:
Come on, though. It's not about time spent at work alone. Suburbanites expect to drive our roads, have traffic lights, police service, street lights, cleaned sidewalks, litter cans, parking checkers (or maybe not?!), and more. It's the whole package and they aren't paying up.
I say, until we get our commuter tax, let's just shut it all off downtown. no cops, no lights, no cleaning, nothin'. Commuters don't want to pay up? Give 'em what they paid for.
yeah dc will do great without all the taxes from those businesses
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Suburbanites DO pay DC taxes...at bars, restaurants, shops, etc.
Should VA and MD charge a DC resident a tax every time they want to drive out to Home Depot or Target, or go anywhere outside of the city for that matter?
Originally posted by chimblysweep:
Come on, though. It's not about time spent at work alone. Suburbanites expect to drive our roads, have traffic lights, police service, street lights, cleaned sidewalks, litter cans, parking checkers (or maybe not?!), and more. It's the whole package and they aren't paying up.
I say, until we get our commuter tax, let's just shut it all off downtown. no cops, no lights, no cleaning, nothin'. Commuters don't want to pay up? Give 'em what they paid for.
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
I work 8.5 hours a day, lunches included. Subtract out vacation days and holidays, and I estimate I work 1938 hours of a possible 8760 hours of the year. Thus, that's 22% of my total time, not 40%. And I use the resources of a federally owned building, none of which comes from DC taxes.
But as a DC resident, I probably spend 90% of my total time in the District. Still, I don't agree with a commuter tax.
Originally posted by Bags:
Will a VA resident call for a Fairfax ambulance when he/she tumbles down the stairs at work? Will the Montgomery County Sherrif's dept send in a proportionate number of cops to its residents who work here when there's an emergency midday on a Wednesday?
If you work in DC, you spend probably 40% of your time here, using services for the betterment of your work life.
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
I would disagree. Income taxes are collected to use on services for the betterment of the residents. Why should someone have to pay income tax to a city/state in which they do not reside, and thus do not receive any of the benefits that the residents of that city/state do receive?
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Originally posted by Got Balls?:
Should VA and MD charge a DC resident a tax every time they want to drive out to Home Depot or Target, or go anywhere outside of the city for that matter?
There are at least 2 Home Depots in the district aren't there?
But by going to stores out of state you are instantly supporting the state with sales tax.
I think the issue here is that two thirds of personal income earned in DC is not DC taxable. It comes down to the rationalisation, do you want the city you work in to be nice or a shithole? Someone has to pay.
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All you DC residents are really quite militant aren't you.....remember. MD and VA gave you land for free so you could have your little city..SO SHUT THE FUCK UP OR WE'LL TAKE OUR LAND BACK!
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Your federally-owned building has its own police, fire and roads? Very cool.
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
I work 8.5 hours a day, lunches included. Subtract out vacation days and holidays, and I estimate I work 1938 hours of a possible 8760 hours of the year. Thus, that's 22% of my total time, not 40%. And I use the resources of a federally owned building, none of which comes from DC taxes.
But as a DC resident, I probably spend 90% of my total time in the District. Still, I don't agree with a commuter tax.
Originally posted by Bags:
Will a VA resident call for a Fairfax ambulance when he/she tumbles down the stairs at work? Will the Montgomery County Sherrif's dept send in a proportionate number of cops to its residents who work here when there's an emergency midday on a Wednesday?
If you work in DC, you spend probably 40% of your time here, using services for the betterment of your work life.
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
I would disagree. Income taxes are collected to use on services for the betterment of the residents. Why should someone have to pay income tax to a city/state in which they do not reside, and thus do not receive any of the benefits that the residents of that city/state do receive?
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Um, Virginia took its land back in the 1850s...that's why you have arlington. You should be very proud. And if Maryland took over DC at least we'd be able to have a say in congress finally.
Originally posted by Bollocks:
All you DC residents are really quite militant aren't you.....remember. MD and VA gave you land for free so you could have your little city..SO SHUT THE FUCK UP OR WE'LL TAKE OUR LAND BACK!
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I'd be happy to be part of Maryland. Really. Take us, and our expenses, and all those federal and international entities that won't pay the state anything.
Y'all are overlooking that commuter taxes of some sort are common. Again, DC is 'different,' but gets no CREDIT for being different.
Originally posted by skonster:
Um, Virginia took its land back in the 1850s...that's why you have arlington. You should be very proud. And if Maryland took over DC at least we'd be able to have a say in congress finally.
Originally posted by Bollocks:
All you DC residents are really quite militant aren't you.....remember. MD and VA gave you land for free so you could have your little city..SO SHUT THE FUCK UP OR WE'LL TAKE OUR LAND BACK!
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
SO SHUT THE FUCK UP OR WE'LL TAKE OUR LAND BACK!
That would be the best scanrio. Then the taxes on DC earnings could actually go to DC. Nice job.
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Triple the taxes on the condecending, "We're cooler than the suburbanites" city dwellers who insist on having a DC address and ,as payment for the conveniences of living in the city. Call is a Coolness Convenience tax.
[/qb][/QUOTE]
I think the issue here is that two thirds of personal income earned in DC is not DC taxable. It comes down to the rationalisation, do you want the city you work in to be nice or a shithole? Someone has to pay. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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We already pay more, Balls. Which includes the services commuters utilize every day.
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Originally posted by Bags:
Will a VA resident call for a Fairfax ambulance when he/she tumbles down the stairs at work? Will the Montgomery County Sherrif's dept send in a proportionate number of cops to its residents who work here when there's an emergency midday on a Wednesday?
they'd probably be better off if they did
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Originally posted by mark e smith:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
SO SHUT THE FUCK UP OR WE'LL TAKE OUR LAND BACK!
That would be the best scanrio. Then the taxes on DC earnings could actually go to DC. Nice job. [/b]
Not to mention you'll get the smoking ban you all want....and the ambulance won't get lost on the way to your emergency....and your kids might actually learn something other than gang warfare technics in school...and your cops will speak English instead of ebonics.....you'll pay 1% less in sales tax....but you'll still have a incompetent and ignorant Dept. of motor vehicles though.....and you'll have to go on safari to find a government shop that sells liquor.
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Originally posted by JGatz:
If it happens in the old country you know it's coming to DC.
Ireland's Pioneering Smoking Ban Starts on Monday
Wed Mar 24, 2004 07:54 AM ET
By Gideon Long
DUBLIN (Reuters) - Ireland is set to stamp out smoking in bars and restaurants starting Monday in the biggest such crackdown yet seen in Europe but one that has angered the owners of some of the country's renowned pubs.
The ban is being viewed a test case for the rest of the European Union and comes in the wake of similar campaigns in several U.S. cities including New York.
From midnight Sunday, it will be illegal to smoke in virtually all workplaces, closed public spaces and on public transport, with fines of up to $3,825 for transgressors.
The government says the ban will help save some of the 7,000 lives lost to smoking-related diseases in Ireland each year and will, for the first time, protect the country's entire workforce from passive smoking.
But critics say it will diminish Ireland's famous pub culture, drive tourists from the Emerald Isle and cost hundreds of jobs in the catering, entertainment and tobacco industries.
Above all, they say, it will turn publicans into policemen, forcing them to confront defiant smokers who, perhaps emboldened by drink, refuse to heed the "no smoking" signs plastered across the walls of their pubs.
"We're deeply disappointed that... the government insists on railroading this ban through in its current form," said the Vintners' Federation of Ireland (VFI), which represents some 6,000 publicans across the country.
A BLUEPRINT FOR EUROPE
The ban, driven into law by Health Minister Micheal Martin, has wide public support. A recent survey by pollsters TNS shows that twice as many people say they are more likely to visit a smoke-free pub than a pub where smoking is allowed.
Governments across Europe are looking to it as a test case, and the EU's health commissioner David Byrne says he would like to see the experiment in his homeland mirrored across the bloc.
Non-EU Norway is introducing a similar ban from June 1.
But other countries favor a more conciliatory approach, coaxing employers into providing smoking areas on their premises rather than forcing them to ban it.
"We prefer to encourage voluntary agreements rather than imposing laws," Danish health ministry official Lene Brondum Jensen told Reuters in Copenhagen.
"We think there is a greater possibility that people will abide by something if they succumb to it voluntarily rather than being forced to do something."
Ireland estimates it spends one billion euros a year treating its population of just under four million from the effects of tobacco.
IRELAND LEADS THE WAY
It is ironic that Ireland, not known for its healthy lifestyle, is leading the rest of Europe in banning smoking.
The Irish are among the region's heaviest drinkers and, thanks in part to a high-cholesterol diet, have one of the bloc's highest incidences of heart disease.
For some in Ireland, a cigarette is as much a part of the pub experience as lively banter and a pint of Guinness. It is all part of what the Irish call "the craic" (the fun).
But reformers say it is time to move on.
Michael O'Shea, Chief Executive of the Irish Heart Foundation, says he hopes the ban will herald a new era for Irish society -- "an era when health is set as a priority over other interests."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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that's funny, somehow I had a feeling you were referring to the ban from the title - perhaps from hanging out at the Warehouse last night where peeps had to take their smokes outside.
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Originally posted by Bags:
[QB] Your federally-owned building has its own police, fire and roads? Very cool.
[QUOTE
Well, mine does, anyway.
-
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by El Tee:
Either they suck it up and don't smoke or embrace the cold.
strange opinions coming from a smoker ;) [/b]
In this case, observer not partaker.
-
Originally posted by JGatz:
IRELAND LEADS THE WAY
thats funny, isnt it? Last time i heard that was when "The Joshua Tree" came out. :D
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Originally posted by Got Balls?:
Triple the taxes on the condecending, "We're cooler than the suburbanites" city dwellers who insist on having a DC address and ,as payment for the conveniences of living in the city. Call is a Coolness Convenience tax.
most of the shit on this board comes from the suburbanites, I guess it is an inferiority complex
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Originally posted by pollard:
most of the shit on this board comes from the suburbanites, I guess it is an inferiority complex
personally, suburbanites generally freak me out. I think people move to the suburbs because they are unable to share their space with others.
or they are afraid of the colored folk :)
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Originally posted by pollard:
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
Triple the taxes on the condecending, "We're cooler than the suburbanites" city dwellers who insist on having a DC address and ,as payment for the conveniences of living in the city. Call is a Coolness Convenience tax.
most of the shit on this board comes from the suburbanites, I guess it is an inferiority complex [/b]
Remind me again what's so cool about the female business suit wearing, polo shirt with collar up, beige pants and boat shoe'd, 1 lawyer for every 6 residents ratoi'd, we think Irelands 4 P's is an authentic Irish bar assuming...DC?
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
most of the shit on this board comes from the suburbanites, I guess it is an inferiority complex
Remind me again what's so cool about the female business suit wearing, polo shirt with collar up, beige pants and boat shoe'd, 1 lawyer for every 6 residents ratoi'd, we think Irelands 4 P's is an authentic Irish bar assuming...DC? [/QB][/QUOTE]
they all live in the 'burbs
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by pollard:
most of the shit on this board comes from the suburbanites, I guess it is an inferiority complex
personally, suburbanites generally freak me out. I think people move to the suburbs because they are unable to share their space with others.
or they are afraid of the colored folk :) [/b]
again, dc is different. i live in an apartment building larger than any in dc. and not that many white people live there...but anyway...
pittsburgh has a commuter tax. it was like $10 a year.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by pollard:
most of the shit on this board comes from the suburbanites, I guess it is an inferiority complex
personally, suburbanites generally freak me out. I think people move to the suburbs because they are unable to share their space with others.
or they are afraid of the colored folk :) [/b]
You are pretty colorFUL...
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Originally posted by mark e smith:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
most of the shit on this board comes from the suburbanites, I guess it is an inferiority complex
Remind me again what's so cool about the female business suit wearing, polo shirt with collar up, beige pants and boat shoe'd, 1 lawyer for every 6 residents ratoi'd, we think Irelands 4 P's is an authentic Irish bar assuming...DC? [/b]
they all live in the 'burbs [/QB][/QUOTE]
So you mean the burbanites are the ones making DC 'cool'.
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
So you mean the burbanites are the ones making DC 'cool'.
If that is what you call "cool"?
-
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Remind me again what's so cool about the female business suit wearing, polo shirt with collar up, beige pants and boat shoe'd, 1 lawyer for every 6 residents ratoi'd, we think Irelands 4 P's is an authentic Irish bar assuming...DC?
thank you for making my point, that most of the people bringing up "dc is cool or not" issues on this board are the suburbanites, rarely do I see city dwellers on this board talk about how cool life in the city is unless somebody has talked bad about it first, and I for one hate the 4 P's, but we have been through that before
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When I move to VA, my train commute will be 45 mins each way. I am not sure how much of that is within District lines (probably well under half), so I guess I should add another .5 hours per day round trip spent in DC.
Originally posted by mark e smith:
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
I work 8.5 hours a day,
You forgot commuting time within the district. I bet that is going to be at least an hour each day. that would take you closer to 1/4 of your time. [/b]
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Originally posted by Got Balls?:
[QB] When I move to VA, my train commute will be 45 mins each way. I am not sure how much of that is within District lines (probably well under half), so I guess I should add another .5 hours per day round trip spent in DC.
so you work in the DC train station?
-
But in real life, away from the board...
Wouldn't you say that more city dwellers talk down in regard to the suburbs and suburbanites than suburbanites talk down in regard to the city and city dwellers?
That's been my observation...
Originally posted by pollard:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Remind me again what's so cool about the female business suit wearing, polo shirt with collar up, beige pants and boat shoe'd, 1 lawyer for every 6 residents ratoi'd, we think Irelands 4 P's is an authentic Irish bar assuming...DC?
thank you for making my point, that most of the people bringing up "dc is cool or not" issues on this board are the suburbanites, rarely do I see city dwellers on this board talk about how cool life in the city is unless somebody has talked bad about it first, and I for one hate the 4 P's, but we have been through that before [/b]
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My place of work is a 15 second walk from Union Station....directly across the street.
Originally posted by mark e smith:
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
[QB] When I move to VA, my train commute will be 45 mins each way. I am not sure how much of that is within District lines (probably well under half), so I guess I should add another .5 hours per day round trip spent in DC.
so you work in the DC train station? [/b]
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Originally posted by Got Balls?:
But in real life, away from the board...
Wouldn't you say that more city dwellers talk down in regard to the suburbs and suburbanites than suburbanites talk down in regard to the city and city dwellers?
That's been my observation...
go post it on craigslist rants and raves then, whats the point of having a conversation on here if people are just talking to people who aren't even here, I for one would never seriously tell people they are not cool because they live in the suburbs, I tell people that all the time, but it is joking with my friends then
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No, the burbanites *generally* are the ones you described first -- the ones you can pick out easily in the crowd, flooding places like New Vegas Lounge in their dockers and pink gummy purses from Nordstrom. Well, suburbanites and G'town kids. Going to Total Beverage is like falling into a tri-Delt social events meeting.
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by mark e smith:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
most of the shit on this board comes from the suburbanites, I guess it is an inferiority complex
Remind me again what's so cool about the female business suit wearing, polo shirt with collar up, beige pants and boat shoe'd, 1 lawyer for every 6 residents ratoi'd, we think Irelands 4 P's is an authentic Irish bar assuming...DC? [/b]
they all live in the 'burbs [/b]
So you mean the burbanites are the ones making DC 'cool'. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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I don't wear them, but what about Dockers, boat shoes, gummy bear purses, etc. makes a person a lesser person?
It seems like having a condescending, mocking attitude toward people for what they wear makes a person a lesser person.
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Originally posted by Got Balls?:
But in real life, away from the board...
Wouldn't you say that more city dwellers talk down in regard to the suburbs and suburbanites than suburbanites talk down in regard to the city and city dwellers?
That's been my observation...
Nope, I've observed it's the suburbanites harping on "when are you going to move out here over the river? Come on, it's like getting a 2% raise...." I've heard that maybe 175 times, and I've never suggested to anyone out there to move into the city. My lifestyle is still city centric, so it makes sense that I live near the things that I do....
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Originally posted by Got Balls?:
I don't wear them, but what about Dockers, boat shoes, gummy bear purses, etc. makes a person a lesser person?
It seems like having a condescending, mocking attitude toward people for what they wear makes a person a lesser person.
Mankie made the assertion that it's a clusterf*** of sameness. If that's the picture he was drawing, I think it's more apropos in reverse. If you don't think you'll see more people dressing the same (which was my point, not what they were actually wearing, but that it's more of a uniform -- all the same) in a Safeway in north Arlington than you would in a Safeway in DC (excepting G'town), then I can't argue with you because I just don't know where you been shoppin'.
You'll be in the burbs any minute and won't have to deal with small city folks, anyhow.
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Originally posted by Got Balls?:
gummy bear purses
what are these and where can I get one?
-
I don't know, I go the the Safeway in Adams Morgan, and the people are predominately two types: young upwardly mobile white 22-35 year olds, and poor working class Hispanics (albeit with more age diversity than the white people).
When I've been scouting the suburbs, I've noticed more age diversity (There are actually white people over 40 in the DC area!). Also, if you look on the Post website at the stats for suburban schools in places like Rockville, Gaithersburg, Annandale, Springfield, Silver Spring...you'll find more ethnic diversity among the suburban population than in DC schools.
If you want sameness, hang your hat in northwest DC. It just seems like there is more diversity in the DC suburbs.
Originally posted by Bags:
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
I don't wear them, but what about Dockers, boat shoes, gummy bear purses, etc. makes a person a lesser person?
It seems like having a condescending, mocking attitude toward people for what they wear makes a person a lesser person.
Mankie made the assertion that it's a clusterf*** of sameness. If that's the picture he was drawing, I think it's more apropos in reverse. If you don't think you'll see more people dressing the same (which was my point, not what they were actually wearing, but that it's more of a uniform -- all the same) in a Safeway in north Arlington than you would in a Safeway in DC (excepting G'town), then I can't argue with you because I just don't know where you been shoppin'.
You'll be in the burbs any minute and won't have to deal with small city folks, anyhow. [/b]
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Originally posted by Ball Girl:
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
gummy bear purses
what are these and where can I get one? [/b]
I guess they're called Jelly totes. First showed up at Nordstrom's a few months back, now they're everywhere, including Target.
Link - image didn't work (http://store.nordstrom.com/product/product_brandboutique.asp?styleid=2832170&boutique=spring_fashion&category=2376776~2374327~2381571~2383663&Search=True)
$88
Nordstrom Cinched Jelly Tote
Italian chic in sherbet shades. Fashioned with a near-translucent look--all the better to show off sweet 'cinching' at the snap top.
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I only just started reading this thread, so I apologize if this is back-tracking or whatever, but I have two comments:
1) Where the hell is keithstg hanging out in NYC? Every time I've been out up there, the bars have been doing the same level of business as I've ever seen up there.
2) Rhett's follow-up has to be the biggest laugh-out-loud moment I've had on this board in a long time.
Originally posted by nkotballs:
Yes, last time I was in NYC, I couldn't find a single bar to go to. They had all shut down, because people had completely stopped going to them. I ended up having to hang out for three nights at a Chuck E. Cheese.
Originally posted by keithstg:
Originally posted by cale:
Does anyone know what someone can do to support a smoking ban in DC? Who do I have to email, who can I give money to, what do I have to sign, etc?
Give the money to your favorite local bar. If NYC is any indication, after a smoking ban goes into effect they will need it. [/b]
[/b]
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:confused:
oh, I thought they were edible (the gummy bear bags)...forget it...
Mr. Balls, how do you know about such cutting edge fasions?
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As if Doc Martens are oh-so-original fashion in the year 2004. Talk about a conformist uniform item. Actually more like an conformist uniform item circa 1994.
Haha.
Originally posted by Bags:
Originally posted by Ball Girl:
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
gummy bear purses
what are these and where can I get one? [/b]
I guess they're called Jelly totes. First showed up at Nordstrom's a few months back, now they're everywhere, including Target.
Link - image didn't work (http://store.nordstrom.com/product/product_brandboutique.asp?styleid=2832170&boutique=spring_fashion&category=2376776~2374327~2381571~2383663&Search=True)
$88
Nordstrom Cinched Jelly Tote
Italian chic in sherbet shades. Fashioned with a near-translucent look--all the better to show off sweet 'cinching' at the snap top. [/b]
-
No, it's about lasting 15 years or more. And being comfy for shows. Aren't you just kind of proving that I don't care much about the conformist uniform if it's no longer conformist?
You only go to one show a month, you put less wear on your dogs...
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
As if Doc Martens are oh-so-original fashion in the year 2004. Talk about a conformist uniform item. Actually more like an conformist uniform item circa 1994.
Haha.
Originally posted by Bags:
Originally posted by Ball Girl:
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
gummy bear purses
what are these and where can I get one? [/b]
I guess they're called Jelly totes. First showed up at Nordstrom's a few months back, now they're everywhere, including Target.
Link - image didn't work (http://store.nordstrom.com/product/product_brandboutique.asp?styleid=2832170&boutique=spring_fashion&category=2376776~2374327~2381571~2383663&Search=True)
$88
Nordstrom Cinched Jelly Tote
Italian chic in sherbet shades. Fashioned with a near-translucent look--all the better to show off sweet 'cinching' at the snap top. [/b]
[/b]
-
Originally posted by pollard:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Remind me again what's so cool about the female business suit wearing, polo shirt with collar up, beige pants and boat shoe'd, 1 lawyer for every 6 residents ratoi'd, we think Irelands 4 P's is an authentic Irish bar assuming...DC?
thank you for making my point, that most of the people bringing up "dc is cool or not" issues on this board are the suburbanites, rarely do I see city dwellers on this board talk about how cool life in the city is unless somebody has talked bad about it first, and I for one hate the 4 P's, but we have been through that before [/b]
I disagree, it's you DC living elitist who always bring up how cool you all are living in DC, when the reality is that people who are from other cities find DC very starched and conservative....nice, but starched and conservative. Apart from one of the best concert venues in the country..what else does it have that you can call "COOL"?
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
what else does it have that you can call "COOL"?
the Capitals...hehehehehehe.
-
Yes, but I walk all over the city (as well as run 30+ miles a week). You drive. How much wear does it put on shoes to stand in place for a few hours?
What was the point?
I think there is sort of a conforming uniform that urbanites wear, and a separate conforming uniform that suburbanites wear.
If someone is over 25 and still strongly defining people or themselves by their fashion, they probably are living a pretty empty, shallow life anyway.
I've known people who wear dockers, Docs, boat shoes (though know gummy bear purses). Some were good folks, some jerks.
Originally posted by Bags:
No, it's about lasting 15 years or more. And being comfy for shows. Aren't you just kind of proving that I don't care much about the conformist uniform if it's no longer conformist?
You only go to one show a month, you put less wear on your dogs...
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
As if Doc Martens are oh-so-original fashion in the year 2004. Talk about a conformist uniform item. Actually more like an conformist uniform item circa 1994.
Haha.
Originally posted by Bags:
Originally posted by Ball Girl:
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
gummy bear purses
what are these and where can I get one? [/b]
I guess they're called Jelly totes. First showed up at Nordstrom's a few months back, now they're everywhere, including Target.
Link - image didn't work (http://store.nordstrom.com/product/product_brandboutique.asp?styleid=2832170&boutique=spring_fashion&category=2376776~2374327~2381571~2383663&Search=True)
$88
Nordstrom Cinched Jelly Tote
Italian chic in sherbet shades. Fashioned with a near-translucent look--all the better to show off sweet 'cinching' at the snap top. [/b]
[/b]
[/b]
-
Originally posted by Bags:
ou only go to one show a month, you put less wear on your dogs...
Careful...you're talking to a man who runs at least 25 miles a week on average... :)
though I now see that he just sort of said that himself
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Isn't the city/suburb argument tired as hell?
-
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
If someone is over 25 and still strongly defining people or themselves by their fashion, they probably are living a pretty empty, shallow life anyway.
Tou shouldnt be so mean to Mankie.
-
Originally posted by Ball Girl:
Isn't the city/suburb argument tired as hell?
Yep, one person always brings it up though. Care to guess whom? :roll:
-
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
If someone is over 25 and still defining people by what they think they know about him/her from an internet bulletin board, they probably are living a pretty empty, shallow life anyway.
I agree with that completely.
I gotta admit, you have a knack for being the one person that just kind of runs this into a dead end, an internet version of namecalling. Even Mankie's pretty virulent on this one, but is far less...I can't think of the perfect word.
-
I believe that would be Bags. She brought the suburban vs. urban question into the thread.
The thread was originally about a smoking ban, and she made the assertion that people from VA or MD (suburbanites) shouldn't have a say as to whether there should be a smoking ban in DC bars.
Originally posted by mark e smith:
Originally posted by Ball Girl:
Isn't the city/suburb argument tired as hell?
Yep, one person always brings it up though. Care to guess whom? :roll: [/b]
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Originally posted by Bags:
As it is, DC residents have little say over what happens in their own city.
How so? (I seriously am curious)
I could see you saying they don't have a say in what goes on in their own *country* but how do they have less say than folks in any other city...and, whose fault would that be?
-
Yup, I brought up the residency issue in terms of the smoking ban. Only. I think it's a valid piece of the discussion. From my comment, we could've kept talking about the smoking ban alone.
Balls moved it to the commuter tax, which moved it to quality of life, which moved it to VA/MD vs DC and then the who's cooler than whom discussion.
I never said, for instance, Montgomery county was worse for having it, or better, or different. But when it comes to passing laws about the District, I think it should be a district issue. I did not begin to draw comparisons or qualitative distinctions.
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
I believe that would be Bags. She brought the suburban vs. urban question into the thread.
The thread was originally about a smoking ban, and she made the assertion that people from VA or MD (suburbanites) shouldn't have a say as to whether there should be a smoking ban in DC bars.
Originally posted by mark e smith:
Originally posted by Ball Girl:
Isn't the city/suburb argument tired as hell?
Yep, one person always brings it up though. Care to guess whom? :roll: [/b]
[/b]
-
Are there no cities in MD and Virginia?
Wasnt Bags point that that it should be decided by DC residents?
Someone else then capitalised on this weak opportunity to make a city vs suburban debate.
-
Even though our tax base is gathered from DC residents, our city's budget and numerous decisions that affect the budget must be passed by the federal congress.
Another example is the ban against the commuter tax -- we are the only jurisdiction which had the federal government step in and disallow us from even considering a policy/tax issue.
Very little self-determination. The real solution really would be to slice off a hunk of DC that is strictly federal land, without residents, and let the rest either become a self-determining state, or part of MD or VA.
Originally posted by Ball Girl:
Originally posted by Bags:
As it is, DC residents have little say over what happens in their own city.
How so? (I seriously am curious)
I could see you saying they don't have a say in what goes on in their own *country* but how do they have less say than folks in any other city...and, whose fault would that be? [/b]
-
I completely agree with you. It is an issue for DC voters to decide. And not MD or VA people. My point was that if there were a commuter tax, I think that should buy suburbanites a vote on the issue.
So the thread went in other directions. Don't they all?
Originally posted by Bags:
Yup, I brought up the residency issue in terms of the smoking ban. Only. I think it's a valid piece of the discussion. From my comment, we could've kept talking about the smoking ban alone.
Balls moved it to the commuter tax, which moved it to quality of life, which moved it to VA/MD vs DC and then the who's cooler than whom discussion.
I never said, for instance, Montgomery county was worse for having it, or better, or different. But when it comes to passing laws about the District, I think it should be a district issue. I did not begin to draw comparisons or qualitative distinctions.
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
I believe that would be Bags. She brought the suburban vs. urban question into the thread.
The thread was originally about a smoking ban, and she made the assertion that people from VA or MD (suburbanites) shouldn't have a say as to whether there should be a smoking ban in DC bars.
Originally posted by mark e smith:
Originally posted by Ball Girl:
Isn't the city/suburb argument tired as hell?
Yep, one person always brings it up though. Care to guess whom? :roll: [/b]
[/b]
[/b]
-
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Apart from one of the best concert venues in the country..what else does it have that you can call "COOL"?
please tell how any of what you said applies to me, I don't ever talk about how DC is cool, I have said I love it before many times, not in comparison to anywhere else, but as the place where I live and like to live, but all that does is gets lots of comments about how bad it is
-
What about people like me who live in the city but work out of the city?
was this already discussed? this thread is making my head bleed
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
What about people like me who live in the city but work out of the city?
I think that this just means you're an anomalous freak and no one knows what the hell to do with you.... :p
-
Be careful, or you're going to have to start paying commuter taxes to Howard County, or whereever it is you work.
I'm shocked they's even let a freak like you into the suburbs. :D
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
What about people like me who live in the city but work out of the city?
was this already discussed? this thread is making my head bleed
-
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
What about people like me who live in the city but work out of the city?
was this already discussed? this thread is making my head bleed
Go smoke a cig. :D
-
Originally posted by nkotbie:
[QB] I only just started reading this thread, so I apologize if this is back-tracking or whatever, but I have two comments:
1) Where the hell is keithstg hanging out in NYC? Every time I've been out up there, the bars have been doing the same level of business as I've ever seen up there.
2) Rhett's follow-up has to be the biggest laugh-out-loud moment I've had on this board in a long time.
Rhett's follow up was pretty damn funny. I am in NYC every weekend, mostly going out downtown, but occasionally on the UES. There really has been a discernable drop off at bars in general. Search the NY Times or Post for articles...
-
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
Be careful, or you're going to have to start paying commuter taxes to Howard County, or whereever it is you work.
I'm shocked they's even let a freak like you into the suburbs. :)
-
Originally posted by El Tee:
Go smoke a cig. :D
them's fightin words. I'll meet you in Arlington tonight. Just, after you beat me up, help me get back home!!!!
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NYC seemed to recover just fine after they raised the drinking age to 21 (with no grandfather clause). I imagine they'll survive a smoking ban.
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Originally posted by Bags:
Even Mankie's pretty virulent on this one, but is far less...I can't think of the perfect word. [/b]
I beg your pardon? I think bags is the more obnoxious one on this thread....I just do one of these :roll: everytime something comes up about DC and the residents end up blaming the suburbanites for all it's woes....bags being the biggest culprit in this case.
OOH, if you burbanites didn't come in our bars smoking...ooh, if you burbanites didn't come take city jobs but pay burbanite income taxes....blah blah blah...get over yourselves?
My opinion of DC has never changed....it's very nice, but not a city I would call 'cool', that's not putting the place down for crying out loud.
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Originally posted by pollard:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Apart from one of the best concert venues in the country..what else does it have that you can call "COOL"?
please tell how any of what you said applies to me, I don't ever talk about how DC is cool, I have said I love it before many times, not in comparison to anywhere else, but as the place where I live and like to live, but all that does is gets lots of comments about how bad it is [/b]
Did you or did you not make this post....
"thank you for making my point, that most of the people bringing up "dc is cool or not" issues on this board are the suburbanites, rarely do I see city dwellers on this board talk about how cool life in the city is unless somebody has talked bad about it first, and I for one hate the 4 P's, but we have been through that before "
I was just disagreeing with your point that it's the suburbanites how make the "cool/not cool" comments. I think it's the city dwellers who can't let it go.
4 P's couldn't pour a pint of guiness if their lives depended on it. ;) (but I think we agree on that one)
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Originally posted by Skeeter:
NYC seemed to recover just fine after they raised the drinking age to 21 (with no grandfather clause). I imagine they'll survive a smoking ban.
I HARDLY think that is the same thing. close maybe, but not quite.
You are right in a way. I am sure 100 years from now no one will even miss all of the freedom's we once had
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by Skeeter:
NYC seemed to recover just fine after they raised the drinking age to 21 (with no grandfather clause). I imagine they'll survive a smoking ban.
I HARDLY think that is the same thing. close maybe, but not quite.
You are right in a way. I am sure 100 years from now no one will even miss all of the freedom's we once had [/b]
Ah yes, it will a case of....."remember the good old days when 15% had the freedom to give cancer to the 85%. I miss the days of freedom of the minority over the majority."
There was a time when we had the freedom to get shitfaced then drive home....those were the days. :roll:
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Look if you want to smoke, go some where you can smoke. If you don't like smoking, don't go somewhere that allows it. Business should make the decisions not the government in this area. If a business wants to cater to people that smoke they should be able to, and vice-versa.
Money is a much larger motivation than anything else.
If bars start to fail because all the nonsmokers go some place else maybe the bars that allow it will change their policies on smoking.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by Skeeter:
NYC seemed to recover just fine after they raised the drinking age to 21 (with no grandfather clause). I imagine they'll survive a smoking ban.
I HARDLY think that is the same thing. close maybe, but not quite.
You are right in a way. I am sure 100 years from now no one will even miss all of the freedom's we once had [/b]
if anything, taking away the legality of serving 3 years worth of people would seem much worse than banning smoking. my sister lives in hoboken, and now goes to the city much more. i would be much more willing to go into dc if there was no smoking. what they should do is ban smoking, but let bars stay open until 5 or 6. then they can make back lost cash, and the drinkers that flock to arlington to smoke will come back to dc after 1:30
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
You are right in a way. I am sure 100 years from now no one will even miss all of the freedom's we once had [/b]
i would be much more willing to go into dc if there was no smoking. [/QB]
But that's the whole point...bags and her crew don't want your kind in her city.
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
But that's the whole point...bags and her crew don't want your kind in her city.
talk about not letting it go, who is this "crew" you speak of
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jesus rhett, you have a MAJOR chip on your shoulder because you can't afford to live in DC.....let it go man
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Must be her posse of 51 gay male friends. Smoking, drinking, dancing and fucking their way to complete freedom. And wearing cool shoes while they're doing it. ;)
Originally posted by pollard:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
But that's the whole point...bags and her crew don't want your kind in her city.
talk about not letting it go, who is this "crew" you speak of [/b]
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Originally posted by brennser:
jesus rhett, you have a MAJOR chip on your shoulder because you can't afford to live in DC.....let it go man
Brennser...bollocks is mankie. ;)
I can afford to live in DC...I choose not to.
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by brennser:
jesus rhett, you have a MAJOR chip on your shoulder because you can't afford to live in DC.....let it go man
Brennser...bollocks is mankie. ;)
I can afford to live in DC...I choose not to. [/b]
I know bollocks is you mank - I was referring more to the whole thread, on which rhett has bloviated prominently, which is starting to resemble another thread from a few weeks ago, and his whole suburbs vs dc whine....
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We can afford to live in DC, but choose not to. In some cities in the world, I would choose the city over the burbs, but not DC. Probably for the same reasons that Mankie chooses the DC burbs.
And Brennser, fuck you. Mankie, Markie, Pollard, Bags, Sonick, and Chimbleysweep all did their parts to bring city vs. suburbs commentary into this thread. Singling me out is pretty gay of you. If you don't like the direction the thread took, fuck off and start a conversation with yourself about such irrelevancies as Lloyd Cole.
Originally posted by brennser:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by brennser:
jesus rhett, you have a MAJOR chip on your shoulder because you can't afford to live in DC.....let it go man
Brennser...bollocks is mankie. ;)
I can afford to live in DC...I choose not to. [/b]
I know bollocks is you mank - I was referring more to the whole thread, on which rhett has bloviated prominently, which is starting to resemble another thread from a few weeks ago, and his whole suburbs vs dc whine.... [/b]
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Originally posted by raebyddet:
Look if you want to smoke, go some where you can smoke. If you don't like smoking, don't go somewhere that allows it. Business should make the decisions not the government in this area. If a business wants to cater to people that smoke they should be able to, and vice-versa.
Money is a much larger motivation than anything else.
If bars start to fail because all the nonsmokers go some place else maybe the bars that allow it will change their policies on smoking.
Yay for common sense!
If non-smoking nightclubs were such a great idea, it wouldn't be necessary for the ban to be legislated.
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by Bags:
Even Mankie's pretty virulent on this one, but is far less...I can't think of the perfect word. [/b]
I beg your pardon? I think bags is the more obnoxious one on this thread....I just do one of these :roll: everytime something comes up about DC and the residents end up blaming the suburbanites for all it's woes....bags being the biggest culprit in this case.
OOH, if you burbanites didn't come in our bars smoking...ooh, if you burbanites didn't come take city jobs but pay burbanite income taxes....blah blah blah...get over yourselves?
[/b]
Mank, youâ??re nuts. All you do is roll your eyes? In fact, looking back, we were talking about tax policy fairly rationally (itâ??s a valid policy discussion to have; itâ??s an option and works other places, itâ??s not about us vs. them, and people disagree on it, but the discussion is viable and necessary).
So weâ??re going along talking ONLY about taxes until this post from Bollocks:
All you DC residents are really quite militant aren't you.....remember. MD and VA gave you land for free so you could have your little city..SO SHUT THE FUCK UP OR WE'LL TAKE OUR LAND BACK!
The next post that veered away from taxes and brought up this whole cool factor was from Balls:
Triple the taxes on the condecending, "We're cooler than the suburbanites" city dwellers who insist on having a DC address and ,as payment for the conveniences of living in the city. Call is a Coolness Convenience tax.
And it devolved from thereâ?¦.You were virulent, before anyone else got into the ever-present city vs. burbs discussion, in fact:
Main Entry: vir·u·lent
Pronunciation: -l&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin virulentus, from virus poison
1: objectionably harsh or strong
As for me wanting to keep out the burbanites, I plan an awful lot of shit bringing them into the city (not the gay guys; they live in the city by a ratio of about 19 to 1). I must not realize that I don't want them here! ?! Surprisingly, I go over the river a lot as well. Hmmm. How crazy of me.
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
Ah yes, it will a case of....."remember the good old days when 15% had the freedom to give cancer to the 85%. I miss the days of freedom of the minority over the majority."
There was a time when we had the freedom to get shitfaced then drive home....those were the days. :roll:
do you have a problem with minorities? and since when were you FORCED to go to a bar to get home at night? I suppose if driving drunk (or the reprecussions of) didnt kill you INSTANTLY, then it wouldnt seem so bad. Your comparison is actually very stupid. But i wouldnt mind seeing a lane especially for drunk people, or people on the phone.
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Ahhh, I have the solution! (http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/news/0,12597,1178589,00.html)
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Ah yes, it will a case of....."remember the good old days when 15% had the freedom to give cancer to the 85%. I miss the days of freedom of the minority over the majority."
There was a time when we had the freedom to get shitfaced then drive home....those were the days. :roll:
do you have a problem with minorities? and since when were you FORCED to go to a bar to get home at night? I suppose if driving drunk (or the reprecussions of) didnt kill you INSTANTLY, then it wouldnt seem so bad. Your comparison is actually very stupid. But i wouldnt mind seeing a lane especially for drunk people, or people on the phone. [/b]
I just think the majority should not suffer in preference of the minority....isn't that a democracy, oh right. USA isn't a democracy is it?
I'll use my driving on the left comparison...I do many things over here that I think are arse-backwards, but the majority do it so I go along with it.
As for the drunk driving comparison....the only point I was making is laws are sometimes brought into effect after statistics show that they would help the safety/health of people....driving drunk was totally legal until someone realized it was killing folk....smoking is doing the same thing, only slower. If I sit in the same room as someone who smokes I'm basically smoking wether I want to or not. I was the one who said smokers should have the right to smoke and have a drink too, so some bars should be allowed to be smokers bars. I agree it should be up to the owners of the bars wether they go smoking or non-smoking, not the government.
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Originally posted by Bags:
Originally posted by cale:
Does anyone know what someone can do to support a smoking ban in DC? Who do I have to email, who can I give money to, what do I have to sign, etc?
Are you a resident? [/b]
Remember this one bags?
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Originally posted by Bags:
What is going to bother me is if a lot of folks who are clamoring for no smoking bars in DC are VA and MD residents. As it is, DC residents have little say over what happens in their own city. This should be strictly a D.C.-decided issue. [/b]
How about this one?
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Originally posted by Bags:
Originally posted by keithstg:
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
And DC should have no right to tax VA or MD people who work in the District, and pay their own income taxes in their state of residence.
[/b]
DC does not tax VA or MD people who work in the District. [/b]
Correct, and hence VA and MD folks should ban smoking in their own towns/cities/counties --where they pay taxes. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Or this?
BTW..Can someone let me know were I get my sales tax exempt forms for DC please?
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
Why does everything have to be so extreme...if a bar wants to allow smoking then why not? They could generate revenue by charging "smokers bars" a monthy levy of $10,000 or something like that, but only allow 15% of bars smoking permits, seeing as some one came up with the magic number of smokers being 15% of the population. Just an idea from a simple northern boy...who's been a non-smoker for over 25 years. I wouldn't go anywhere near a smoking bar personally, but smokers should be given the opportunity to enjoy a pint and a smoke too.
I think they should allow smoking in the workplace though...so everytime some twat lights up all us non-smokers can go sit outside and do nothing for 20 minutes out of every hour. :D
This was my first comment on the issue...doesn't seem very "virulent" to me, but I apologize if you took it that way.
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
I agree it should be up to the owners of the bars wether they go smoking or non-smoking, not the government.
oh, ok. hehe.
and the US isnt a democracy. but if it was, dont minorities have rights too?
well, i figured i would move back to Canada when the US smoking bans were too much, but now i presume it will be the whole world soon.
blech.
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And Brennser, fuck you.
WARNING: TROLL MAY ATTACK IF PROVOKED
Singling me out is pretty gay of you.
yeah, but not as gay as calling someone a porky midget
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by brennser:
jesus rhett, you have a MAJOR chip on your shoulder because you can't afford to live in DC.....let it go man
Brennser...bollocks is mankie. ;)
I can afford to live in DC...I choose not to. [/b]
mankie, not only can you afford to live in DC, you can afford to live in Ireland - not even I can afford that :confused:
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I apologized for my stupidity surrounding that incident, and still feel regretful.
Perhaps the gayest thing of all is taking an incident that concerned you in no real way, and that happened eight or nine months ago, and trying to rehash that incident.
Originally posted by brennser:
And Brennser, fuck you.
WARNING: TROLL MAY ATTACK IF PROVOKED
Singling me out is pretty gay of you.
yeah, but not as gay as calling someone a porky midget [/b]
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Thanks for making my point in so many posts, mank. Exactly as I've maintained, I consistantly was talking about the smoking ban and that it should be a city issue decided by the city. I didn't veer from that discussion until others did and the clamoring began.
What's funny about this thread's page 4 is that it all started with my saying you *weren't* being a dick even though apparently hot under the collar...
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by Bags:
Originally posted by keithstg:
Originally posted by Got Balls?:
And DC should have no right to tax VA or MD people who work in the District, and pay their own income taxes in their state of residence.
[/b]
DC does not tax VA or MD people who work in the District. [/b]
Correct, and hence VA and MD folks should ban smoking in their own towns/cities/counties --where they pay taxes. [/b]
Or this?
BTW..Can someone let me know were I get my sales tax exempt forms for DC please? [/QB][/QUOTE]
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I never said you started out crazed, but were the first to get there with the post I noted above. You know, the one with the screaming...
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Why does everything have to be so extreme...if a bar wants to allow smoking then why not? They could generate revenue by charging "smokers bars" a monthy levy of $10,000 or something like that, but only allow 15% of bars smoking permits, seeing as some one came up with the magic number of smokers being 15% of the population. Just an idea from a simple northern boy...who's been a non-smoker for over 25 years. I wouldn't go anywhere near a smoking bar personally, but smokers should be given the opportunity to enjoy a pint and a smoke too.
I think they should allow smoking in the workplace though...so everytime some twat lights up all us non-smokers can go sit outside and do nothing for 20 minutes out of every hour. :D
This was my first comment on the issue...doesn't seem very "virulent" to me, but I apologize if you took it that way. [/b]
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Originally posted by brennser:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by brennser:
jesus rhett, you have a MAJOR chip on your shoulder because you can't afford to live in DC.....let it go man
Brennser...bollocks is mankie. ;)
I can afford to live in DC...I choose not to. [/b]
mankie, not only can you afford to live in DC, you can afford to live in Ireland - not even I can afford that :confused: [/b]
I think you mean you can't afford to live the American lifestyle in Ireland.
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I think you mean you can't afford to live the American lifestyle in Ireland.
well strictly speaking I can afford to live anywhere, what with the old trust fund... :p
I know we've talked offline about this mankie but I'm not really talking about the american lifestyle (to be honest I'm not even sure if I'm living that right now)
I was just chatting with someone from Donegal this morning and we are both here 10 years and were saying how literally everythings more expensive in Ireland, cars, houses, gas, clothes, CDs, DVDs, eating out, cigarettes, drink, even newspapers - you name it - on top of that people make less and are taxed more
I honestly don't know how my friends who live in Dublin do it
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But i wouldnt mind seeing a lane especially for drunk people, or people on the phone.
giggle...I like that idea!
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Originally posted by brennser:
I think you mean you can't afford to live the American lifestyle in Ireland.
well strictly speaking I can afford to live anywhere, what with the old trust fund... :p
I know we've talked offline about this mankie but I'm not really talking about the american lifestyle (to be honest I'm not even sure if I'm living that right now)
I was just chatting with someone from Donegal this morning and we are both here 10 years and were saying how literally everythings more expensive in Ireland, cars, houses, gas, clothes, CDs, DVDs, eating out, cigarettes, drink, even newspapers - you name it - on top of that people make less and are taxed more
I honestly don't know how my friends who live in Dublin do it [/b]
But they do, and go on holiday twice a year as well. (because they get more than 1-2 weeks per year) Personal debt is much higher in the US than over there too, so it's not like they borrow on the never never for all this stuff. I think people live within their means and make it work...I took quite a paycut for this job and haven't missed it really, other than cutting out impulse purchases for fancy watches and all that crap, which isn't important when all said and done.
As for living the American lifestyle....I did, then didn't, then REALLY didn't, then did and now comfortable. I'd say the only difference is three words, "I'll take it", unless you are at the stage I was at during my "REALLY didn't" phase.
I know I'm rambling on but I know what I mean!!! For example...I'd like to switch to digital photography but have a ton of lenses for my Nikon SLR so want a digital camera to fit those... the D100, or the replacement coming out soon D70 I think...anyway it's about $1,000 and in my last job I'd just go buy the damn thing, but now I'll just put the cash aside for a couple of months...what's the big deal? (I don't use credit cards btw.)
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I don't have the time or desire to read the entire thread, but the smoking ban has been in effect for nearly ten years in the entire state of California, and yes, the bars took an initial hit for the first few months, but nearly all have overcome. The bars and clubs are as crowded as they ever were and most owners and their employees are making money hand over fist.
The live music scene is fantastic in LA and SF without smoking in the clubs and the music scene in the suburbs of SF and LA are doing just fine as well so it's not a Big City vs. Suburb thing either. The fact is smoking bothers nonsmokers and the people have spoken, the legislature listened and took action despite the big money tobacco lobby. And frankly, I much prefer the ban. I don't smoke, but have many friends that do, and they've gotten used to it. Some of them are even still friends with an outspoken nonsmoker, especially after I tell them the horror stories of my times in hospitals due to numerous lung ailments.
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"A bill has been introduced in the Maryland Legislature to permit dogs in Maryland restaurants â?? at the restaurant owner's discretion â?? but there has been little support for the measure. Letters to the editor of The Baltimore Sun are overwhelmingly against it."
- USA Today
Hmmm, so they outlaw smoking because smokers are in the minority, but will allow restaurants to *decide* about dogs in eating establishments, to appease the minority?
Yuck. Hopefully the citizens of Maryland (and Maryland alone) will decide and prevail! ;)
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I remember being in a restaurant in Venice a few years ago, and an old guy came in with a dog, and I thought it was pretty cool, even though I'm allerigic to animal fur. I guess my animal allergy doesn't bother me nearly as much as cigarette smoke does.
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In Virginia, not only can you smoke in restaurants, you can also carry a concealed weapon in the restaurant.
I *heart* Virginia.
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And, again, in case you didn't read the whole thread...
supporters of a ban on smoking in DC bars can donate, volunteer, or get involved with Smoke Free DC (http://www.smokefreedc.org)
Originally posted by vansmack:
I don't have the time or desire to read the entire thread, but the smoking ban has been in effect for nearly ten years in the entire state of California, and yes, the bars took an initial hit for the first few months, but nearly all have overcome. The bars and clubs are as crowded as they ever were and most owners and their employees are making money hand over fist.
The live music scene is fantastic in LA and SF without smoking in the clubs and the music scene in the suburbs of SF and LA are doing just fine as well so it's not a Big City vs. Suburb thing either. The fact is smoking bothers nonsmokers and the people have spoken, the legislature listened and took action despite the big money tobacco lobby. And frankly, I much prefer the ban. I don't smoke, but have many friends that do, and they've gotten used to it. Some of them are even still friends with an outspoken nonsmoker, especially after I tell them the horror stories of my times in hospitals due to numerous lung ailments.
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Originally posted by chimblysweep:
And, again, in case you didn't read the whole thread...
supporters of a ban on smoking in DC bars can donate, volunteer, or get involved with Smoke Free DC (http://www.smokefreedc.org)
Thanks for the heads up.
I've left that smoke infested city and have since moved to smoke free SF, CA (But the smoking ban really had nothing to do with it).
Good luck with passing the ban though.