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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: Mongo on June 03, 2004, 03:58:00 pm
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I know this strays far from the typical music/footie threads but I think this might spark some healthy debate. If you are a male between the ages of 18 and 26 you may want to pay particular attention to bills S 89 and H 163 in congress which will reinstate the Selective Service (thats right, the draft) by June 15 2005. From what I have learned this there is a very good possiblity that it will happen. Politicians ON BOTH SIDES will likely be quiet on the issue until after November.
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=5834001&content_dir=ua_congressorg (http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=5834001&content_dir=ua_congressorg)
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Michael Moore has been busy signing up the congressmens' sons.
Go ahead Mongo, sign up before they draft you'
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Originally posted by Mongo:
I know this strays far from the typical music/footie threads but I think this might spark some healthy debate. If you are a male between the ages of 18 and 26 you may want to pay particular attention to bills S 89 and H 163 in congress which will reinstate the Selective Service (thats right, the draft) by June 15 2005. From what I have learned this there is a very good possiblity that it will happen. Politicians ON BOTH SIDES will likely be quiet on the issue until after November.
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=5834001&content_dir=ua_congressorg (http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=5834001&content_dir=ua_congressorg)
Oh well. I will be 27 by then, so I assume it won't effect me. Were I to be drafted, I would certainly go. It seems to me that the nation asks little of us in return for the freedom we enjoy.
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This is the latest scare-mongering that has been making its way around the internet for a few months now.
Charles Rangel introduced this bill in the beginning of 2003 (I believe), as a way of making a point that the armed forces are disproportionately filled with minorities and lower-income kids. He felt that if he could make military service compulsory, those with more power would think twice about waging war.
These bills aren't being hidden in the dark recesses of congress, waiting for the election to pass before they spring up to nab every unsuspecting young man and woman and ship them off to war in pursuit of US military dominance over the entire world. They are dead in committee.
Watch out for the black helicopters.
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Two years of military discipline would do you young punks a world of good! ;)
I wouldn't have missed my 10 years for anything, but then again, my government never sent me out to needless and personal wars.
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42
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
42
Actually, he's #43 Clinton was 42.
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ugh. I'll be 18 just in time. if I get drafted, I'm getting pregnant pronto. no fucking way I'd survive in boot camp.
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not that a draft would be surprising, no one is going to join the reserves anymore the way they've been jerked around, i doubt it. the dub krew is going to need to keep popular opinion to keep this whole thing going, even after the election. yay for being old
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I'm glad my husband is already an old goat.
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http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/draft.asp (http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/draft.asp)
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There is as yet no definitive answer to the question of whether or not the U.S. will reinstitute a draft. Obviously some thought has been given to the issue, but the possibility that such thoughts will be turned into reality appears rather small at this point. Still, conditions and attitudes can change very quickly â?? another event of the magnitude of the September 11 attacks could prompt some rapid shifts in government policy and public opinion.
that sounds about right.
i really don't see it as a really good reason to vote one way or the other. if you like the war, be willing to fight it or send someone you care about to fight it.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/draft.asp (http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/draft.asp)
Since when did Snopes give political commentary?
The email is not a hoax, though some of the facts may be fabricated. There is pending legislation, whether or not it will be passed should be beyond the realm of Snopes.
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When I first got my green card I volunteered to join the US reserves out of a sense of duty to my new country. They told me because I was in sales I could be a supply clerk. I told them I had 10 years military communications experience....they told me they don't recognize foriegn military experience. I told them to forget it.
In 1991, I was contacted by them for Dessert Storm. I told them I wasn't interested, they told me I could serve as a communications specialists if I signed up. I told them to fuck off, they wouldn't have me when I volunteered, but now they need me they're willing to be flexible.
The way this administration has dicked the reserves about, I'd be willing to bet there will be a mass exodus when all this is over, and they know it which is why the draft is being discussed.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/draft.asp (http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/draft.asp)
Since when did Snopes give political commentary?
The email is not a hoax, though some of the facts may be fabricated. There is pending legislation, whether or not it will be passed should be beyond the realm of Snopes. [/b]
It's not political commentary.
Snopes deals with internet hoaxes. The claim that "The Draft Will Start in 2005" is a hoax, as is the claim that the "administration is quietly trying to get these bills passed now, while the public's attention is on the elections," therefore it is definitely under their purview.
Rangel (Democrat -- definitely not part of the Administration) himself stated that the bill would never pass and that he (and several other members of the congressional black caucus -- all Democrats) only sponsored it as a way to draw attention to the large numbers of lower-income and minority kids in the military.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
It's not political commentary.
Snopes deals with internet hoaxes. The claim that "The Draft Will Start in 2005" is a hoax, as is the claim that the "administration is quietly trying to get these bills passed now, while the public's attention is on the elections," therefore it is definitely under their purview.
Rangel (Democrat -- definitely not part of the Administration) himself stated that the bill would never pass and that he (and several other members of the congressional black caucus -- all Democrats) only sponsored it as a way to draw attention to the large numbers of lower-income and minority kids in the military.
I take issue with this:
Status: Probably not.
While I agree that the subject is extremely misleading, and that the extra sentence you alluded to is also misleading, the other 20+ sentences are closer to fact than fiction.
Snopes usually answers these types of hoxes with See Below and explains what I laid out above. They don't normally say that an email is true or not because of its likelihood of being passed by Congress.
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Originally posted by keithstg:
Oh well. I will be 27 by then, so I assume it won't effect me. Were I to be drafted, I would certainly go. It seems to me that the nation asks little of us in return for the freedom we enjoy.
I don't remember where I read it but there is some pressure to extend the age into the low 30's.
Also, if you actually believe that our current government's foreign policy is justified then you should volunteer yourself for service.
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Well I think It's a great idea, get some of these President/America bashing dead beat lazy ass's off the chat boards and into the trenches. Me, I'll be sitting my semi old, already been in the military butt at home and work typing "LOL" everytime I think about them in boot camp or working on a military installation.
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Originally posted by beetsnotbeats:
Originally posted by keithstg:
Oh well. I will be 27 by then, so I assume it won't effect me. Were I to be drafted, I would certainly go. It seems to me that the nation asks little of us in return for the freedom we enjoy.
I don't remember where I read it but there is some pressure to extend the age into the low 30's.
Also, if you actually believe that our current government's foreign policy is justified then you should volunteer yourself for service. [/b]
I never made any comment about foreign policy. All I said was that if drafted, I would go. That holds true for any administration under which I would be drafted.
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Originally posted by keithstg:
. [/b]
I never made any comment about foreign policy. All I said was that if drafted, I would go. That holds true for any administration under which I would be drafted. [/QB]
You should consider moving to North Korea, you'd fit right in.
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
I wouldn't have missed my 10 years for anything, but then again, my government never sent me out to needless and personal wars.
What was that Islas Malvinas adventure then, eh?
Two bald men fighting over a comb (http://www.guardian.co.uk/falklands/story/0,11707,657871,00.html)
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
You should consider moving to North Korea, you'd fit right in. [/b]
Or South Korea
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by keithstg:
. [/b]
I never made any comment about foreign policy. All I said was that if drafted, I would go. That holds true for any administration under which I would be drafted. [/b]
You should consider moving to North Korea, you'd fit right in. [/QB]
Why? Because I would do what was asked? Seems to me that you did the same thing.
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Originally posted by Rob_Gee_a.k.a _Guiny:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
You should consider moving to North Korea, you'd fit right in.
Or South Korea [/b]
Or Austria, Germany, Finland, Sweden, Greece, Norway, or Switzerland.
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Originally posted by Dupek Chopra:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
I wouldn't have missed my 10 years for anything, but then again, my government never sent me out to needless and personal wars.
What was that Islas Malvinas adventure then, eh?
Two bald men fighting over a comb (http://www.guardian.co.uk/falklands/story/0,11707,657871,00.html) [/b]
The Malvinas was straightforward really,
We had British citizens living in a country that was invaded by Argentina, we went down, kicked their arses then came home again....no biggie!
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Originally posted by keithstg:
[/b]
Why? Because I would do what was asked? Seems to me that you did the same thing. [/QB]
""That holds true for any administration under which I would be drafted. ""
That's what I was responding to more than anything....would you still go willingly if Dubya decided to rid the world of jews for example?
Seriously, I believe that everyone should serve at least 3 years, because it teaches you a lot about responsiblity, discipline and respect...but I just as strongly believe nobody should be forced to serve.
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by keithstg:
[/b]
Why? Because I would do what was asked? Seems to me that you did the same thing. [/b]
""That holds true for any administration under which I would be drafted. ""
That's what I was responding to more than anything....would you still go willingly if Dubya decided to rid the world of jews for example?
Seriously, I believe that everyone should serve at least 3 years, because it teaches you a lot about responsiblity, discipline and respect...but I just as strongly believe nobody should be forced to serve. [/QB]
Of course not. I thought of that example after I posted, but didn't feel like editing that. I guess to give recent examples, I would have gone to Iraq / Afganistan, and Vietnam, although my dad was drafted to Nam and didn't end up there somehow.
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Our nation's so freaking obese, if those bills do pass they'll have a tough time finding anyone who can pass the physical.
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What about women being drafted? At this point in our evolution as a society, that should probably be on the table, shouldn't it?
Do any other countries draft women?
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Originally posted by Bagalicious Tangster:
What about women being drafted? At this point in our evolution as a society, that should probably be on the table, shouldn't it?
Do any other countries draft women?
Israel, China and Malaysia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_draft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_draft)
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Originally posted by Bagalicious Tangster:
Do any other countries draft women?
israel mandates all citizens serve time in their military, including women.
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Originally posted by keithstg:
[/QB]
I guess to give recent examples, I would have gone to Iraq. [/QB][/QUOTE]
And I'm sure you would've found those nasty Weapons of Mass Destructions.... not to mention you'd be walking over the rose petals the Iraqis would throw at your feet...more so after more than 15k CIVILIANS and fellow countrymen have faltered under the "cakewalk"...
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Originally posted by Bagalicious Tangster:
Do any other countries draft women?
israel mandates all citizens serve time in their military, including women. [/b]
...and if you've ever seen any of those Israeli broads you'd understand why the Arabs haven't attacked the place. YOWZER!
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Originally posted by Bagalicious Tangster:
What about women being drafted? At this point in our evolution as a society, that should probably be on the table, shouldn't it?
Do any other countries draft women?
By the way, just so I can get blasted because it's Friday and I'm feeling fiesty...."women should not be put in combat roles"
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by Bagalicious Tangster:
What about women being drafted? At this point in our evolution as a society, that should probably be on the table, shouldn't it?
Do any other countries draft women?
By the way, just so I can get blasted because it's Friday and I'm feeling fiesty...."women should not be put in combat roles" [/b]
I agree
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Originally posted by Fico:
Originally posted by keithstg:
[/b]
I guess to give recent examples, I would have gone to Iraq. [/QB]
And I'm sure you would've found those nasty Weapons of Mass Destructions.... not to mention you'd be walking over the rose petals the Iraqis would throw at your feet...more so after more than 15k CIVILIANS and fellow countrymen have faltered under the "cakewalk"... [/QB][/QUOTE]
Why the venom directed at me? It's a personal choice, last I checked.
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
By the way, just so I can get blasted because it's Friday and I'm feeling fiesty...."women should not be put in combat roles"
"Women should be put in combat hose."