930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: jkeisenh on March 26, 2004, 10:50:00 am
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my friend skonster and i were just chatting about how much David Segal sucks, and how much the Post music reviews suck.
I mean, David Segal is some "respected" critic, yet he only writes like one article a month and hosts one surly chat. His taste is questionable, to say the least. And when someone asks him why he didn't review some of last year's best shows, his response is, "I'm sorry, I missed that one." Missed it? Isn't it your *job* to go to these things. damn, i would die for his job!
anyway, rant temporarily over, but gosh i hate that guy.
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He always seems to belittle the right Britpop bands, so he gets the thumbs up in my book. :p :p
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sure, he belittles BritPop. Then he goes and reviews shows at MCI Center and ignores the more important 930 and Gato Negro shows...
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Good point. But remember that the Post is a mainstream publication, and the MCI holds 15 times as many people as the 9:30 Club.
I actually think the Post does a good job covering music, considering it's a mainstream newspaper and not a music magazine...
Certainly better than the pathetic music converage of the City Paper.
Originally posted by chimblysweep:
sure, he belittles BritPop. Then he goes and reviews shows at MCI Center and ignores the more important 930 and Gato Negro shows...
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What I find interesting is that the Washington Times reviews about as much as the Post. Which gives me shivers, 'cuz I go to that scary website to look for reviews.
I never would have thought or known, but at last summer's Liz Phair show, we spoke to the Times critic at length. He was a pretty cool guy, no pretense.
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You know, the Times is an odd, odd paper. I used to work in Anacostia and lots of the folks East of the River would buy the Times. I didn't get why they'd want to read that drivel until I looked closer-- lots of folks would throw out all but the sports page. It turns out people think the Times has better sports reporting.
I personally think they have a better Metro section, too.
But the front section I just can't stomach, no matter how nice the rest of it is.
Originally posted by Bags:
What I find interesting is that the Washington Times reviews about as much as the Post. Which gives me shivers, 'cuz I go to that scary website to look for reviews.
I never would have thought or known, but at last summer's Liz Phair show, we spoke to the Times critic at length. He was a pretty cool guy, no pretense.
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Yeah, they probably try to say some crazy shit like a fetus is not a human life, or some bullshit like that...
Originally posted by chimblysweep:
[QB]
But the front section I just can't stomach, no matter how nice the rest of it is.
[
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actually, I think he's really funny
I don't know that his job is reviewing every show - I think the point is that he does the "important" ones, but I don't know if he chooses his own assignments anyway (it is called an "assignment")
my problem with the Post is that they seem to come up with every reason NOT to do a story - like an A & R person who thinks it's their job to pass on bands, not sign them
meanwhile, the NY Times uncannily comes up with stuff that is right there on the curve - it's amazing reallyâ?¦seems like as soon as you talk about something with your friends, boom, there it is
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Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
meanwhile, the NY Times uncannily comes up with stuff that is right there on the curve - it's amazing reallyâ?¦seems like as soon as you talk about something with your friends, boom, there it is
which is scary, because then my mom knows more about Will Oldham or Dizzee Rascal than I do.
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Please allow me to respond to this.
Thanks for taking the time to read my reviews in the post. Yes, I feel very privileged to actually get paid to go to shows and write how I felt about them.
As to those who feel that we don't have our ears on what is pulsing in the music world today, let me say this. There are over a dozen full time music venues in the DC area. The Post has a staff of five people who critique shows regularly. You do the math. Even if we were at shows seven nights a week, we would not be able to cover everything.
And to those who say we miss some of the "important" stuff? I say, "Important to who?" Just because a gaggle of 23 year old music "journalists" get excited about a new indie band that might sell 20,000 albums tops, doesn't mean the general newspaper audience is going to get excited about the band, nor does it mean the band is important.
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is this the real diamond 'rock on with your bad selves' david segal or an april fools joke?
we're gonna need to see some id please young man
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Tho' I hope that Mr. Segal's insinuation that record sales is indicative of import was unintended?
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yes, i doubt that David Segal could find time in his writing-one-column-a-month schedule to chat with us lowly ticket buyers.
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Tho' I hope that Mr. Segal's insinuation that record sales is indicative of import was unintended?
unfortunately I think not - he didn't do much to answer the complaint that the Posts music coverage is lacking and generally focused on mainstream music
and as others have pointed out the NY Times seems to be able to cover these bands - in particular I remembr an excellent and interesting article on Idlewild, one of those bands who 23 year old music journalists get excited about who sell 20,000 copies
with its huge audience the Post has a real chance to let people know of good stuff thats out there thats not what Clear Channel wants you to listen to but instead they choose the safer route
I'm not arguing they shouldn't cover major artists, they have to of course, but there should be more of a focus on up and coming or out of the mainstream acts
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Originally posted by brennser:
I'm not arguing they shouldn't cover major artists, they have to of course, but there should be more of a focus on up and coming or out of the mainstream acts
Exactly, everyone already knows about the mainstream acts.
If that is really David Segal, I would love to really know if he stays to the end of shows or leaves after 3 songs. Often reviews from the post miss important aspects of shows.
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Originally posted by brennser:
and as others have pointed out the NY Times seems to be able to cover these bands - in particular I remembr an excellent and interesting article on Idlewild, one of those bands who 23 year old music journalists get excited about who sell 20,000 copies
Not to mention even smaller bands like TV on the Radio, who had a half page in the Arts & Leisure section a couple of weeks ago.
Of course, New York sees a lot more of these up and coming acts, which may explain why they have done a great job recently in covering more of the off-the-beaten-path stuff.
But the comment "Just because a gaggle of 23 year old music "journalists" get excited about a new indie band that might sell 20,000 albums tops" really answers all the questions about the Post's (and Mr. Segal's) attitudes toward new music, doesn't it?
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The Post is in the business of reporting news, not "taking chances".
Originally posted by brennser:
Tho' I hope that Mr. Segal's insinuation that record sales is indicative of import was unintended?
unfortunately I think not - he didn't do much to answer the complaint that the Posts music coverage is lacking and generally focused on mainstream music
and as others have pointed out the NY Times seems to be able to cover these bands - in particular I remembr an excellent and interesting article on Idlewild, one of those bands who 23 year old music journalists get excited about who sell 20,000 copies
with its huge audience the Post has a real chance to let people know of good stuff thats out there thats not what Clear Channel wants you to listen to but instead they choose the safer route
I'm not arguing they shouldn't cover major artists, they have to of course, but there should be more of a focus on up and coming or out of the mainstream acts [/b]
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
But the comment "Just because a gaggle of 23 year old music "journalists" get excited about a new indie band that might sell 20,000 albums tops" really answers all the questions about the Post's (and Mr. Segal's) attitudes toward new music, doesn't it?
I second that. Has anyone else read his washington post live online chats? He rarely answers questions about bands that haven't hit a Billboard list, and usually, when it comes to shows at 930 or Black Cat, it's a "sorry I missed that one." How very frustrating.
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Originally posted by David Segal:
The Post is in the business of reporting news, not "taking chances".
[/b][/QUOTE]
With that kind of attitude, the post would have missed the velvet underground or the first couple of years of punk at CBGB's......
Instead of helping to be part of a trend the post is happy to report on over the hill mainstream acts?
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As someone that used to be a rock critic and managed, designed and maintained my own web site, I would say that it's not just about what is news, even if it is the Post. Greg Kot from the Chicago Tribune knows when something is newsworthy and does a damn fine job covering something (like Kurt Cobain's death)...then there were the other times he filled the shoes of a spectator and musical appreciator. His tastes don't always reflect mine, but at least he was able to adequately convey his thoughts and opinions into valid points. That is what a good writer does...you might not always agree, but at least you can respect them. But a good chunk of that validity comes from covering a nice variety of performances and styles, and not consistently trashing certain genres (i.e. Britpop).
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Segal's a big X fan isn't he? Surely he knows something about left of the dial bands.
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As I stated, the Post is in the business of reporting news, not making news.
We leave the job of MAKING news to our colleagues at the New York Times (e.g. Jayson Blair).
Originally posted by brennser:
Tho' I hope that Mr. Segal's insinuation that record sales is indicative of import was unintended?
unfortunately I think not - he didn't do much to answer the complaint that the Posts music coverage is lacking and generally focused on mainstream music
and as others have pointed out the NY Times seems to be able to cover these bands - in particular I remembr an excellent and interesting article on Idlewild, one of those bands who 23 year old music journalists get excited about who sell 20,000 copies
with its huge audience the Post has a real chance to let people know of good stuff thats out there thats not what Clear Channel wants you to listen to but instead they choose the safer route
I'm not arguing they shouldn't cover major artists, they have to of course, but there should be more of a focus on up and coming or out of the mainstream acts [/b]
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:Of course, New York sees a lot more of these up and coming acts, which may explain why they have done a great job recently in covering more of the off-the-beaten-path stuff.
[/QB]
Except for New York bands, I believe we get virtually everything they do in NY (I peruse pollstar a lot, as I'll go to NY for a show now and then). Our shows don't sell out as often, but that's the difference between 12 million people and...however many live around here. :p
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I know I was mentioned in the first post on this subject, cause I like to complain and all. To be fair, the Post has done some more obscure stuff - they reviewed Xiu Xiu from last week. And The Carlsonics profile a few months ago was interesting. But it would be worthwhile to do some sort of monthly profile of a local band, for instance.
I complained for a couple of reasons. I haven't liked his reviews for various reasons. About half of the Blur review consisted of complaining that a spotlight kept getting in his face. I find stuff like that offputting, even though the 'concert experience' is worth discussing. And while I do read and sometimes enjoy the chats, answers like this (from last week's chat) are why it can be frustrating:
"Detroit, Mich.: David,
You publish about a story every other week or once a month in the Post. What do you do with the rest of your time?
David Segal: I sleep."
Maybe the question came off as snarky, but although I really doubt Segal has a lot of free time at work I would also be curious to know what some other responsibilities are. Is he the head in charge of who sees what? Editing the other reporters' work? etc. ok i'll stop now.
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Originally posted by David Segal:
As I stated, the Post is in the business of reporting news, not making news.
We leave the job of MAKING news to our colleagues at the New York Times (e.g. Jayson Blair).
One would really hope this isn't actually David Segal... he's hardly being respectable.
Anyway, you're not working at the NEWS desk are you? I mean, Tom Seitsema reports on all restaurants-- from hole-in-the-wall BBQ joints to Galileo. Why can't music critics cover the same spectrum?
If this is David Segal, maybe it's time to go work for Billboard instead. Clearly your attitude is selling short your ability to actually see the whole spectrum of what makes music great.
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As I stated, the Post is in the business of reporting news, not making news.
We leave the job of MAKING news to our colleagues at the New York Times (e.g. Jayson Blair).
not only is that smart alecky, but its trying to change the subject and continuing to avoid what a bunch of people here think is a legitimate question regarding the Posts coverage of non-mainstream acts
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Well, it's been nice chatting with y'all, but that's all the time I have. Time to go sip on a glass of Merlot at Tryst whilst working on my latest Janet Jackson feature article.
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Certainly, though, there should be more than one guy at the Post covering music? Eric Brace worked hard at highlighting what was noteworthy around town (of course, he's gone, and likely had a different editorial mission).
It is true, though, that I watch the NY Times for coverage.
Alas, I was going to defend Mr. Segal to a degree, than he added the snipe about Jayson Blair and lost all credibility with me. Which is too bad, as this is a site full of bona fide music fans and concert goers. ;)
Seriously, hearing bunnyman's discussion of Chicago coverage saddened me a little. It highlights that the Post may be less than it can be, rather than the NY Times being an anomolous example of particularly good coverage of arts & leisure issues.
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Hahaha.. it was an April Fools joke
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rhett you prick!!!
well done - we fell for it hook, line and fucking sinker
:o :D :roll:
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Originally posted by David Segal:
We leave the job of MAKING news to our colleagues at the New York Times (e.g. Jayson Blair).
That's true. I mean Jayson Blair is no Janet Cook is he?
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Originally posted by brennser:
not only is that smart alecky, but its trying to change the subject and continuing to avoid what a bunch of people here think is a legitimate question
Hence, Rhett's "tell"....
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<img src="http://www.maxis.musik-sampler.de/images/covers/1991-03.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Weeee! Still, sort of a fun discussion...esp since a couple of days ago it had been dead in the water.
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<img src="http://www.leffa-arviot.com/arvostelut/m/mel_brookss_history_of_the_world_part_1/01.jpg" alt=" - " />
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you know. . maybe mankie's right. . no one here has a sense of humour. april fools used to be such a fun day.
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Woohoo!@ Gotta give my lovely wife, Mrs. Balls, credit. I can't remember who she first mentioned I should impersonate for April Fools on the board, but it planted the seed for me!
Originally posted by brennser:
rhett you prick!!!
well done - we fell for it hook, line and fucking sinker
:o :D :roll:
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you know. . maybe mankie's right. . no one here has a sense of humour. april fools used to be such a fun day.
not sure what you mean? was a great gag by rhett and from what I can tell people are fine with it
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The first post was really good. You slipped a little after that.
But you shoulda done it not on Aprils fools day if you really wanted to get people going.
Still it made me laugh.
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Suckers...
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Originally posted by brennser:
you know. . maybe mankie's right. . no one here has a sense of humour. april fools used to be such a fun day.
not sure what you mean? was a great gag by rhett and from what I can tell people are fine with it [/b]
exactly, everyone fell for it and took it all seriously and started giving the author crap about his statements. . .even when the statements, on their face, were patently false. i'm amused that a number of people were taken in by it all, especially since it's april fools day.
good job on the farce rhett!
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Originally posted by mark e smith:
But you shoulda done it not on Aprils fools day if you really wanted to get people going.
It would be wrong to do it on any other day...
Well done today... ;)
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Originally posted by brennser:
you know. . maybe mankie's right. . no one here has a sense of humour. april fools used to be such a fun day.
not sure what you mean? was a great gag by rhett and from what I can tell people are fine with it [/b]
exactly, everyone fell for it and took it all seriously and started giving the author crap about his statements. . .even when the statements, on their face, were patently false. i'm amused that a number of people were taken in by it all, especially since it's april fools day.
good job on the farce rhett! [/b]
everyone wishes they were as clever as you
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What a turn-on!
<img src="http://www.ilovebacon.com/040104/gayrep.jpg" alt=" - " />
Billionaires for Bush (http://billionairesforbush.com/index.php)
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Gotta say, I had a hunch. (Back to segal bashing) I knew he wouldn't lower himself to talking to actual ticket buying music fans.
Originally posted by brennser:
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Originally posted by brennser:
you know. . maybe mankie's right. . no one here has a sense of humour. april fools used to be such a fun day.
not sure what you mean? was a great gag by rhett and from what I can tell people are fine with it [/b]
exactly, everyone fell for it and took it all seriously and started giving the author crap about his statements. . .even when the statements, on their face, were patently false. i'm amused that a number of people were taken in by it all, especially since it's april fools day.
good job on the farce rhett! [/b]
everyone wishes they were as clever as you [/b]
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Actually, you can talk with him every other Wednesday. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/liveonline/entertainment/music/poptalk/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/liveonline/entertainment/music/poptalk/)
I'm sure our resident Washington Post chat watcher could tell you all about it. :p
Originally posted by chimbly sweep:
Gotta say, I had a hunch. (Back to segal bashing) I knew he wouldn't lower himself to talking to actual ticket buying music fans.
Originally posted by brennser:
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Originally posted by brennser:
you know. . maybe mankie's right. . no one here has a sense of humour. april fools used to be such a fun day.
not sure what you mean? was a great gag by rhett and from what I can tell people are fine with it [/b]
exactly, everyone fell for it and took it all seriously and started giving the author crap about his statements. . .even when the statements, on their face, were patently false. i'm amused that a number of people were taken in by it all, especially since it's april fools day.
good job on the farce rhett! [/b]
everyone wishes they were as clever as you [/b]
[/b]
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yes but the problem with that chat is that he gets to screen the questions. translation? all he talks about is pop music and how cool he thinks he is. it's just blather.
he does like modest mouse, though. for that reason and that reason only i give him half a star out of five.
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is this he?
<img src="http://www.aasfe.org/2002winningpics/segal.jpg" alt=" - " />
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I've never read a David Segal chat (the only Post chats I read are the Going Out Gurus that come out Thursdays...). Are they of any interest?
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Originally posted by Bags:
I've never read a David Segal chat (the only Post chats I read are the Going Out Gurus that come out Thursdays...). Are they of any interest?
No.
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Balls might like it...
"Washington, D.C: Any advance buzz on the new Wilco album?:
David Segal: All I've heard is that it's a return to pre-Yankee Foxtrot days and will please fans who thought that album was a detour. There is news about it on one of my favorite music web blogs: http://blog.largeheartedboy.com. (http://blog.largeheartedboy.com.)
I check this site almost every day. It always has good tips and links to plenty of downloads. Check it out. "
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Originally posted by Bags:
http://blog.largeheartedboy.com (http://blog.largeheartedboy.com)
it is a great site, I also read it everyday, readers beware, large hearted boy is a reference to a gbv song, so you know where he is coming from :)
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So this is fun! Segal's answer is inane, but good info on the Hoodoos.
"Arlington, Va.: Here's today's public service announcement for fans of 80's/early90's college rock ... Australian legends the Hoodoo Gurus who had called it quits six or so years ago have reformed and just put out a new album that many reviews say is their finest work ever. They're on a major tour all across Oz right now. I'm a big fan of theirs and had no idea they were back until I happened across their new disc on SirenDisc.com which is an excellent import CD site.
David Segal: Great tip. The HGs take on "Little Drummer Boy" is my favorite Christmas song of all time. I've only heard it twice but it killed me both times. Maybe it's on iTunes. Or somewhere on the Net. Anyway, when they come through town, if they come through town, make sure you scream for that song, even if they're here in May. Especially if they're here in May. "
And this does show that Segal's a bit of a twat, taking a question on the Shins to expound on Jet and the Darkness (Jet may be the most derivative band yet; I actually tuned back to a radio station because I thought it was an AC/DC song, and it was Jet's new single -- indistinguishable!):
"Washington, D.C.: Of the young bands out there right now, which would you say is the best live performer? I'd have to say the Shins. That recent show at the Black Cat was fantastic. They play great music and also look like they're enjoying themselves on stage, rather than being moody and over-serious like some other bands can be.
David Segal: Missed the Shins the last time they were in town -- I was in Ca. But I didn't think they particularly captivating when I saw them and I say this as a fierce admirer of their music. James Mercer, the lead shin, was pretty shy back then, though he might well have gotten past that now.
I watched Jet perform last week and they were very impressive. Great energy, good windmilling, excellent rowdy songs. I'm looking forward to the Darkness, though I think that show is already sold out. "
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He's right on the money in saying the Shins are a great band, but not that great live.
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Originally posted by ballard:
He's right on the money in saying the Shins are a great band, but not that great live.
No wonder you so successfully pulled off an imitation of Segal....
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haha, best thread
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Originally posted by Bags:
David Segal: "I watched Jet perform last week and they were very impressive. Great energy, good windmilling, excellent rowdy songs."
Close...but no cigar.
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Originally posted by Bags:
Australian legends the Hoodoo Gurus who had called it quits six or so years ago have reformed and just put out a new album that many reviews say is their finest work ever. They're on a major tour all across Oz right now.
WOOHOO! :cool:
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David Segal Strikes Again (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50601-2004Apr4.html) with yet another article that really doesn't say anything luminary or of consequence.
In fact, he only reiterates things we all know anyway.
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Here is some ammunition for all you Segal and GBV haters out there :)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A49784-2002Jan1¬Found=true (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A49784-2002Jan1¬Found=true)
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Funny that both Segal and GBV come across as rather good sports.....
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Woah... how'd you find a 2-year-old article, and how'd you dig up this ole' thread?? That, my friends, is too much time on one's hands...
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Originally posted by chimbly sweep:
Woah... how'd you find a 2-year-old article, and how'd you dig up this ole' thread??
using technoly
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your technoly is poultry:
http://www.nlbc.go.jp/english/Overseas/Poultry/pt001bhabesh.htm (http://www.nlbc.go.jp/english/Overseas/Poultry/pt001bhabesh.htm)
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actually the article was linked elsewhere, but there are things called search engines, they allow you to find all kinds of things
Sunday, April 18, 2004; Page B08
The phrase "It could have been me" never meant so much before. On March 26, while riding to work on his bicycle, David K. van Keuren was killed in a hit-and-run on South Capitol Street. The driver who hit him has been found but not charged.
The tragedy has been on my mind ever since. That's because I'm a bike commuter too, and I wonder what would have happened if I had been the one who was hit and killed. Would I have had the proper ID? Would I have been carrying contact information for a loved one?
I'm involved in promoting bicycles as an alternative means of commuting. My message always has been to ride a bike to work for the exercise, for your health, for your sanity, for the guaranteed free parking and for the opportunity to reduce air pollution. But with van Keuren's death, I have had to confront the fact that commuting by bike can be a fatal choice.
Van Keuren's death was particularly disturbing because the District has been planning for a long time to upgrade its bicycle route network. The safest bike routes around town have been identified and labeled, but the site where he was killed has been recognized as an area that needs improvements.
A new master plan for bike routes will make improvements to the South Capitol street corridor. As with many District projects, though, the funding is uncertain. A more seamless network of bike routes could save the lives of other cyclists, so the plan should be fully funded and implemented.
Meanwhile, the mayor and the D.C. Council should look at simple, inexpensive measures to improve bicycle safety. Just enforcing traffic laws -- including speed limits -- would go a long way toward making the city's streets safer for bicyclists. Including bicycle education in driver education manuals, improving signs on bicycle routes and installing traffic-calming devices are also short-term and relatively inexpensive ways to improve safety.
Drivers need to do their part too. By slowing down around cyclists and passing them with the recommended four-foot clearance, drivers can encourage commuting by bicycle.
Right now, more than 10,000 commuters in this area leave their cars home each day to ride bicycles to work. At this time of year, as spring beckons, more commuters are tempted to abandon their cars in favor of bicycles. Biking is a great way to get to work. It doesn't have to be -- and it shouldn't be -- dangerous.
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Dude. So what are you trying to say? I don't see your whimperings and whinings in the Post. Pttthhhhhbt! :p
Luddites forever! Poultry technololy never!