930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on June 09, 2004, 09:10:00 am
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So who all is going?
I know I will be "the biggest goddamn yahoo hillbilly" in a sea of terrorist loving indie-rcok artfag bicyclists.
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Anyone want to bet how many minutes Rhett and Celeste will stay in there?
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
...in a sea of terrorist loving indie-rcok artfag bicyclists.
eh-hem. many of us aren't "fags" but rather into "fluid sexuality."
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I'll be there although I am still trying to find an alternate route from Arlington.
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Well, my wife did say she thought you were "cute". Guess I probably shouldn't let her out of my sight. :roll:
Originally posted by chimbly sweep:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
...in a sea of terrorist loving indie-rcok artfag bicyclists.
eh-hem. many of us aren't "fags" but rather into "fluid sexuality." [/b]
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Originally posted by Mongo:
I'll be there although I am still trying to find an alternate route from Arlington.
Key Bridge to Whitehurst Freeway to K Street.
K Street to 14th. 14th to U. U to 8th. 8th to V.
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will be there
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Sold my tickets yesterday.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Mongo:
I'll be there although I am still trying to find an alternate route from Arlington.
Key Bridge to Whitehurst Freeway to K Street.
K Street to 14th. 14th to U. U to 8th. 8th to V. [/b]
Good point. I think thats my best option. The Chain Bridge would be a complete pain in the ass and forget about 66.
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i'll be there with my gf and a friend, and i'll be driving. :p
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I'm looking forward to it. Although I'm more of a Jay Farrar fan.
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http://www.billboard.com/bb/livereviews/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000527562 (http://www.billboard.com/bb/livereviews/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000527562)
review and setlist from last night's show
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Mongo:
I'll be there although I am still trying to find an alternate route from Arlington.
Key Bridge to Whitehurst Freeway to K Street.
K Street to 14th. 14th to U. U to 8th. 8th to V. [/b]
Better check they allow bicycles on the Whitehurst Freeway before taking that route.
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"And what the crowd wouldn't have done for a song or three from Wilco's first two albums, "A.M." and "Being There," which were completely ignored."
Bummer....
Originally posted by pollard:
http://www.billboard.com/bb/livereviews/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000527562 (http://www.billboard.com/bb/livereviews/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000527562)
review and setlist from last night's show
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I encourage those not wanting to deal with traffic to stay home and watch it on the web :p
from wilcoworld.net -
We will be webcasting Wilco's performance from the 9:30 club in Washington DC on Wednesday, June 9 at 10:00 p.m. EDST. Check this space on the day of the show for details.
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I'll second that comment.
This Nels Cline fellow is going to fuck Wilco up, mark my words. He turned the Geraldine Fibbers from a perfectly good band into a pile of crap, and he'll probably do it to Wilco too.
Max Johnston (now in the Gourds) and Jay Bennett, where are you guys when we need you?
Originally posted by brennser:
"And what the crowd wouldn't have done for a song or three from Wilco's first two albums, "A.M." and "Being There," which were completely ignored."
Bummer....
Originally posted by pollard:
http://www.billboard.com/bb/livereviews/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000527562 (http://www.billboard.com/bb/livereviews/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000527562)
review and setlist from last night's show
[/b]
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I'm there. Dreading the hoopla known as traffic. Can't they have a procession in the a.m.?
Anyhow, I can handle the alternate routes once I'm close or inside the city/...my problem is getting to the alternate routes from the boondocks.
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Wilco doesn't go on until 10 pm. Is there really going to be a traffic problem going INTO DC at that hour? Am I missing something?
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Originally posted by pollard:
I encourage those not wanting to deal with traffic to stay home and watch it on the web :p
from wilcoworld.net -
We will be webcasting Wilco's performance from the 9:30 club in Washington DC on Wednesday, June 9 at 10:00 p.m. EDST. Check this space on the day of the show for details.
Yet another reason not to turn my computer on at home.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
[QB]
This Nels Cline fellow is going to fuck Wilco up, mark my words. He turned the Geraldine Fibbers from a perfectly good band into a pile of crap, and he'll probably do it to Wilco too.
Jeff Tweedy beat him to it!
;)
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*edit*
That's weird, I didn't post it twice...
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Wilco doesn't go on until 10 pm. Is there really going to be a traffic problem going INTO DC at that hour? Am I missing something?
constitution ave. is closed until 9, as are all streets crossing constitution from 23rd to the u.s. capitol.
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I caught the Sunday night show & have mixed feelings.
Most new songs were good - some were even great: "At least that's what you said" was Crazy Horsesque.
But I walked away unsatisfied knowing just how good the show could have been. Like the review above, both AM & Summer Teeth were ignored (1 song from ST - after 2 hours). I appreciate the artistic growth & experimental bent, but not at the expense of ignoring a significant portion of their most likable catalog. Watching them was like seeing the evil alt-country Radiohead twin. I even like RH, but one's enough thanks.
And it's not like this tour is an abberation. I've seen them 4 times & each was like an exercise in contempt for all the older material.
It makes you appreciate a band and tour like the recent Pixies shows even more - all the best songs, all the time.
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If you like A.M. check out Frogholler coming soon to Iota (Sat July 10). I doubt you'll see a better band in this genre this year. I caught them last eve in one of the strangest shows I've ever seen. It was at a coffeehouse (byob). No promotion. Just a stop over on the way to St Louis & Twangfest. More band members were on stage than actual attendees. Still, they put on one of my fav shows of the year. So much talent, & so likable.
other reviews:
"........their excellent new work Railings, simply the best band I've heard in years. Great songwriting, they are a deliriously entertaining live act, that truly create their own genre." - Andrew Aber The Village Voice
"If country music is about trying to lead an ordinary life in America's small towns and rural counties, it makes sense that alternative-country should be music about trying to lead a bohemian life in the same circumstances. Few acts pursue this latter strategy with as much devotion or with as much success as Frog Holler, a sextet from the area around Kutztown, Pa. ........ It reminds us that Frog Holler is one of our most underrated alt-country acts." - Geoffrey Himes The Washington Post
Frog Holler is fond of loud drums and Neil Young-worthy guitar solos. Its notoriously intense live show would fit right in at a Texas honky-tonk, a West Virginia hoedown, or at a noisy Philly club like the North Star." - Amy Phillips The Philadelphia Inquirer
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Wilco doesn't go on until 10 pm. Is there really going to be a traffic problem going INTO DC at that hour? Am I missing something?
We want to make sure we get there so we can get a better spot than you :) JK Rhett. Anyway, has anyone learned anymore about the availability of the Heads of State concert poster. I assume it will be for sale at the show. I'd definitely like to get my mits on one.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Wilco doesn't go on until 10 pm. Is there really going to be a traffic problem going INTO DC at that hour? Am I missing something?
there is ALWAYS traffic going into dc. welcome to suburban life. well, on 66 at least, 395 isn't nearly as bad
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I've seen Frog Holler, and can attest, too, that they put on a fun show.
Might go seem them at Iota again. It's the same night that Old 97's are playing live on Penn (in the day) so would make a nice two shows in a day outting.
Originally posted by grotty:
I caught the Sunday night show & have mixed feelings.
Most new songs were good - some were even great: "At least that's what you said" was Crazy Horsesque.
But I walked away unsatisfied knowing just how good the show could have been. Like the review above, both AM & Summer Teeth were ignored (1 song from ST - after 2 hours). I appreciate the artistic growth & experimental bent, but not at the expense of ignoring a significant portion of their most likable catalog. Watching them was like seeing the evil alt-country Radiohead twin. I even like RH, but one's enough thanks.
And it's not like this tour is an abberation. I've seen them 4 times & each was like an exercise in contempt for all the older material.
It makes you appreciate a band and tour like the recent Pixies shows even more - all the best songs, all the time.
*********************
If you like A.M. check out Frogholler coming soon to Iota (Sat July 10). I doubt you'll see a better band in this genre this year. I caught them last eve in one of the strangest shows I've ever seen. It was at a coffeehouse (byob). No promotion. Just a stop over on the way to St Louis & Twangfest. More band members were on stage than actual attendees. Still, they put on one of my fav shows of the year. So much talent, & so likable.
other reviews:
"........their excellent new work Railings, simply the best band I've heard in years. Great songwriting, they are a deliriously entertaining live act, that truly create their own genre." - Andrew Aber The Village Voice
"If country music is about trying to lead an ordinary life in America's small towns and rural counties, it makes sense that alternative-country should be music about trying to lead a bohemian life in the same circumstances. Few acts pursue this latter strategy with as much devotion or with as much success as Frog Holler, a sextet from the area around Kutztown, Pa. ........ It reminds us that Frog Holler is one of our most underrated alt-country acts." - Geoffrey Himes The Washington Post
Frog Holler is fond of loud drums and Neil Young-worthy guitar solos. Its notoriously intense live show would fit right in at a Texas honky-tonk, a West Virginia hoedown, or at a noisy Philly club like the North Star." - Amy Phillips The Philadelphia Inquirer
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Originally posted by Mongo:
Anyway, has anyone learned anymore about the availability of the Heads of State concert poster. I assume it will be for sale at the show. I'd definitely like to get my mits on one.
I assume it will be available at the show. It will likely be available on the Heads of State site at some point also, but those guys are always a little slow in updating their site.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I've seen Frog Holler, and can attest, too, that they put on a fun show.
Might go seem them at Iota again. It's the same night that Old 97's are playing live on Penn (in the day) so would make a nice two shows in a day outting.
Definitely go Rhett - I know you saw them a while ago. My opinion is that they have improved SO much. Maybe not as performing musicians, but Railings is much better than the previous 3 records. Better songs = better shows. A mantra Wilco should heed.
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
Better check they allow bicycles on the Whitehurst Freeway before taking that route.
Actually, bicyclists are allowed on the Whitehurst. You'd just have to be somewhat, um, suicidal to try it. (Just the same as it's been found bicyclists are allowed in the tunnels under traffic circles-- like Scott and Thomas. you'll notice the no bikes signs have disappeared.)
Bikes are allowed on every road in DC except for roads with posted "motorized vehicles only" signs-- as in 295 and 395.
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Originally posted by chimbly sweep:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Better check they allow bicycles on the Whitehurst Freeway before taking that route.
Actually, bicyclists are allowed on the Whitehurst. You'd just have to be somewhat, um, suicidal to try it. (Just the same as it's been found bicyclists are allowed in the tunnels under traffic circles-- like Scott and Thomas. you'll notice the no bikes signs have disappeared.)
Bikes are allowed on every road in DC except for roads with posted "motorized vehicles only" signs-- as in 295 and 395. [/b]
YES!!
Just one step closer to our ultimate goal...to make DC a "BIKES ONLY" city...hard to imagine el'pres in his cyclecade though.
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Didn't he have a bike accident recently?
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Just one step closer to our ultimate goal...to make DC a "BIKES ONLY" city...hard to imagine el'pres in his cyclecade though.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
I assume it will be available at the show. It will likely be available on the Heads of State site at some point also, but those guys are always a little slow in updating their site.
I had emailed them a while ago, and they said they would be available after the show in a limited number. Did not mention them being at the show, but they could be.
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Originally posted by thirsty moore:
Didn't he have a bike accident recently?
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Just one step closer to our ultimate goal...to make DC a "BIKES ONLY" city...hard to imagine el'pres in his cyclecade though.
[/b]
NO! He did not have an accident on his bike....al queada put a stick in his spokes.
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True enough, they hated his freedom.
Originally posted by Bollocks:
NO! He did not have an accident on his bike....al queada put a stick in his spokes.
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Originally posted by pollard:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
I assume it will be available at the show. It will likely be available on the Heads of State site at some point also, but those guys are always a little slow in updating their site.
I had emailed them a while ago, and they said they would be available after the show in a limited number. Did not mention them being at the show, but they could be. [/b]
They said it was a run of 1000, which is pretty huge considering 250-300 is standard. So they will definitely be selling them somewhere. The show would seem to make the most sense. A poster of last night's NYC show is available both on the Wilco site and on the site of the designer www.thepatentpending.com (http://www.thepatentpending.com)
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I caught the Sunday night show & have mixed feelings.
Most new songs were good - some were even great: "At least that's what you said" was Crazy Horsesque.
But I walked away unsatisfied knowing just how good the show could have been. Like the review above, both AM & Summer Teeth were ignored (1 song from ST - after 2 hours). I appreciate the artistic growth & experimental bent, but not at the expense of ignoring a significant portion of their most likable catalog. Watching them was like seeing the evil alt-country Radiohead twin. I even like RH, but one's enough thanks.
And it's not like this tour is an abberation. I've seen them 4 times & each was like an exercise in contempt for all the older material.
It makes you appreciate a band and tour like the recent Pixies shows even more - all the best songs, all the time.
It's called evolution...all bands, at least the good ones, do it. Don't get me wrong; I enjoy the old albums as much as anyone however I don't listen to those albums, pining for the old days and thinking..."Why doesn't Wilco make 'likeable' music anymore?". Why would any band, unless they're on their last-leg reunion or retirement tour, want to drag their fans down memory lane? One last sing-along for the road...
Like Pablo Honey for Radiohead, A.M. isn't the strongest album. I think YHF and the yet-to-be-released, A Ghost is Born are Wilco's best work to date. I could cherry-pick 20 tracks off Wilco's first few albums (including the long-winded, albeit great, Being There) and be hard-pressed to get anything comparable to the genius of YHF and AGIB. (Side note...I'm listening to Hail to the Thief right now and it certainly gives the Bends/OK Computer some strong competition for best RH album).
...and, as for the Pixies, I saw them recently at Coachella and, though they fulfilled one of my concert fantasies, I'll be surprised if any new material they may (or may not) write/record will push new ground or, for that matter, even be musically relevant. Wilco is NOW...and better than they ever were.
Can't wait to hear the new album live tonight...hope everyone has a great time at the show.
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more like devolution (is that a word?) to those of us who like their first two albums the best.
It's easy for you to say they've "evolved" and that it's a good thing, because you prefer the new stuff.
Liz Phair has evolved too.
Originally posted by joz:
I caught the Sunday night show & have mixed feelings.
Most new songs were good - some were even great: "At least that's what you said" was Crazy Horsesque.
But I walked away unsatisfied knowing just how good the show could have been. Like the review above, both AM & Summer Teeth were ignored (1 song from ST - after 2 hours). I appreciate the artistic growth & experimental bent, but not at the expense of ignoring a significant portion of their most likable catalog. Watching them was like seeing the evil alt-country Radiohead twin. I even like RH, but one's enough thanks.
And it's not like this tour is an abberation. I've seen them 4 times & each was like an exercise in contempt for all the older material.
It makes you appreciate a band and tour like the recent Pixies shows even more - all the best songs, all the time.
It's called evolution...all bands, at least the good ones, do it. Don't get me wrong; I enjoy the old albums as much as anyone however I don't listen to those albums, pining for the old days and thinking..."Why doesn't Wilco make 'likeable' music anymore?". Why would any band, unless they're on their last-leg reunion or retirement tour, want to drag their fans down memory lane? One last sing-along for the road...
Like Pablo Honey for Radiohead, A.M. isn't the strongest album. I think YHF and the yet-to-be-released, A Ghost is Born are Wilco's best work to date. I could cherry-pick 20 tracks off Wilco's first few albums (including the long-winded, albeit great, Being There) and be hard-pressed to get anything comparable to the genius of YHF and AGIB. (Side note...I'm listening to Hail to the Thief right now and it certainly gives the Bends/OK Computer some strong competition for best RH album).
...and, as for the Pixies, I saw them recently at Coachella and, though they fulfilled one of my concert fantasies, I'll be surprised if any new material they may (or may not) write/record will push new ground or, for that matter, even be musically relevant. Wilco is NOW...and better than they ever were.
Can't wait to hear the new album live tonight...hope everyone has a great time at the show. [/b]
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Present.
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Originally posted by joz:
(Side note...I'm listening to Hail to the Thief right now and it certainly gives the Bends/OK Computer some strong competition for best RH album).
ya lost me with that one
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I'm not even talking about musical 'preferences', Rhett...In fact, my favorite Wilco songs are on Being There (I'll take Passenger Side from A.M. and She's a Jar/Via Chicago from ST as runner's up). HOWEVER, I don't think there's any question that, with YHF/AGIB, Wilco is pushing musical boundaries and making better, more cohesive albums than they were 5 or 6 years ago. I think that a year or two from now, Wilco fans will love the newer songs as much as the early stuff. In hindsight, can anyone deny that Sgt. Pepper's was lightyears ahead of Meet the Beatles?? I'm sure there were those who, at the time, looked at Meet the Beatles the same as those of you who think AM is Wilco's magnum opus.
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anyway, how could liz phair evolve? she sucks now as much as she always did.
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Not to be difficult, but my preference has always been for early Beatles.
And I'll take a collection of Beach Boys singles over Pet Sounds as well.
Originally posted by joz:
I'm not even talking about musical 'preferences', Rhett...In fact, my favorite Wilco songs are on Being There (I'll take Passenger Side from A.M. and She's a Jar/Via Chicago from ST as runner's up). HOWEVER, I don't think there's any question that, with YHF/AGIB, Wilco is pushing musical boundaries and making better, more cohesive albums than they were 5 or 6 years ago. I think that a year or two from now, Wilco fans will love the newer songs as much as the early stuff. In hindsight, can anyone deny that Sgt. Pepper's was lightyears ahead of Meet the Beatles?? I'm sure there were those who, at the time, looked at Meet the Beatles the same as those of you who think AM is Wilco's magnum opus.
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Originally posted by joz:
anyway, how could liz phair evolve? she sucks now as much as she always did.
woah now, exile is pretty great. she evolved into not having stage fright
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I don't see Wilco as evolving, Tweedy certainly would like to, but I see them (to use a term you use) cherry picking from other styles they like and not making it their own in the least. Wilco was good at writing songs, not being experimental, Tweedy just likes the idea of being experimental. The show they did with Sonic Youth was embarassing, because seeing Wilco do songs like Kidsmoke with loud guitar bursts after seing a Sonic Youth set made Wilco look like amateurs.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
And I'll take a collection of Beach Boys singles over Pet Sounds as well.
There it is. Proof that you don't know jack. ;)
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ok pollard...let's talk bands that are derivative. let me preface this comment by saying that I really dig GBV, but seriously...is there another band out there that has ripped off more from the Who and the Beatles? all bands are derivative of something. the new wilco is more like television/elo/replacements than sonic youth. and exile in guyville...CMON! i liked that album when i was a confused 18yo but i dug it out again recently and realized that she was never really good. the album title wasn't even original!
and, rhett, i suppose you like the stones' hot rocks compilation ("forget altamont, the ed sullivan performance of let's spend the night together was the rolling stones pinnacle!") over let it bleed, (the real) EXILE, and sticky fingers.
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Originally posted by joz:
ok pollard...let's talk bands that are derivative. let me preface this comment by saying that I really dig GBV, but seriously...is there another band out there that has ripped off more from the Who and the Beatles? all bands are derivative of something. the new wilco is more like television/elo/replacements than sonic youth. and exile in guyville...CMON! i liked that album when i was a confused 18yo but i dug it out again recently and realized that she was never really good. the album title wasn't even original!
and, rhett, i suppose you like the stones' hot rocks compilation ("forget altamont, the ed sullivan performance of let's spend the night together was the rolling stones pinnacle!") over let it bleed, (the real) EXILE, and sticky fingers.
ladies and gentlemen, here's someone that doesn't understand irony.
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I'll take any Stones song that doesn't have that god damned saxophone blaring in it. For the love of god, the saxophone is for pussies like Kenny G and Bill Clinton and Quarterflash and Richie Cunningham, not a real rock and roll band.
Originally posted by joz:
ok pollard...let's talk bands that are derivative. let me preface this comment by saying that I really dig GBV, but seriously...is there another band out there that has ripped off more from the Who and the Beatles? all bands are derivative of something. the new wilco is more like television/elo/replacements than sonic youth. and exile in guyville...CMON! i liked that album when i was a confused 18yo but i dug it out again recently and realized that she was never really good. the album title wasn't even original!
and, rhett, i suppose you like the stones' hot rocks compilation ("forget altamont, the ed sullivan performance of let's spend the night together was the rolling stones pinnacle!") over let it bleed, (the real) EXILE, and sticky fingers.
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Originally posted by joz:
ok pollard...let's talk bands that are derivative. let me preface this comment by saying that I really dig GBV, but seriously...is there another band out there that has ripped off more from the Who and the Beatles? all bands are derivative of something. the new wilco is more like television/elo/replacements than sonic youth. and exile in guyville...CMON! i liked that album when i was a confused 18yo but i dug it out again recently and realized that she was never really good. the album title wasn't even original!
and, rhett, i suppose you like the stones' hot rocks compilation ("forget altamont, the ed sullivan performance of let's spend the night together was the rolling stones pinnacle!") over let it bleed, (the real) EXILE, and sticky fingers.
we are not talking GBV, nobody could claim that they are not derivative, we are talking about whether or not Wilco is evolving, I don't think becoming more derivative is evolving, and I don't mean the new album all sounds like sonic youth, I mean when they try and sound like sonic youth it sucks, they take other things other people do well and do it poorly, I still like Wilco, I just don't think they are evolving
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Thank god!! Finally a member who knows a thing or two about music. Thanks for all the useful info!
Originally posted by joz:
ok pollard...let's talk bands that are derivative. let me preface this comment by saying that I really dig GBV, but seriously...is there another band out there that has ripped off more from the Who and the Beatles? all bands are derivative of something. the new wilco is more like television/elo/replacements than sonic youth. and exile in guyville...CMON! i liked that album when i was a confused 18yo but i dug it out again recently and realized that she was never really good. the album title wasn't even original!
and, rhett, i suppose you like the stones' hot rocks compilation ("forget altamont, the ed sullivan performance of let's spend the night together was the rolling stones pinnacle!") over let it bleed, (the real) EXILE, and sticky fingers.
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Originally posted by pollard:
I don't see Wilco as evolving, Tweedy certainly would like to, but I see them (to use a term you use) cherry picking from other styles they like and not making it their own in the least. Wilco was good at writing songs, not being experimental, Tweedy just likes the idea of being experimental. The show they did with Sonic Youth was embarassing, because seeing Wilco do songs like Kidsmoke with loud guitar bursts after seing a Sonic Youth set made Wilco look like amateurs.
yeah, sonic youth blew them off the stage. pretty much the reason i'm not going tonight, and i like both bands alot (sonic youth more so). also sonic nurse is better than the all-but-one-song i have heard from the new wilco
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Originally posted by joz:
It's called evolution...all bands, at least the good ones, do it.
Wilco is NOW...and better than they ever were.
[/b]
You're missing the entire point. I never said I didn't like the new songs - I do. I never said that a band should be forced to pander to an audience & play only the "hits" - they shouldn't.
But it is possible for an artist to be creative and evolutionary, yet also provide a very enjoyable concert experience that pleases fans of all growth phases. See Radiohead @ your Coachella example. They played many songs from OK Computer...even Creep. You can change the song - update it - there's no requirement that you need to play the same song, the same way you've been doing for 10 years. But don't disown an entire chunk of your creative output. On Sunday night - everyone but the most ardent of fans must have walked away scratching their heads wondering what all the Wilco buzz is about. Pollard describes it best above:
"I don't see Wilco as evolving, Tweedy certainly would like to, but I see them...cherry picking from other styles they like and not making it their own in the least. Wilco was good at writing songs, not being experimental, Tweedy just likes the idea of being experimental."
That's the Wilco of NOW. Evolution just for the sake of evolution is not always a good thing. Check with the dinosaurs.
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DEVOLUTION
<img src="http://www.bushorchimp.com/images/pic81.jpg" alt=" - " />
EVOLUTION
<img src="http://www.nyheter.nu/kultur/garvis.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://i.rollingstone.com/assets/rs/176/rsimages_446x195/wilco.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Here's the Post-Gazette review of the Sunday show:
Wilco wills fans to cheer (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04160/328393.stm)
Highlights:
By the time the guys followed "California Stars" with a two-song encore of "Spiders (Kidsmoke)," a head-on collision of Krautrock and headbanging '70s rock, and "I'm a Wheel," a raucous explosion of post-punk abandon, they'd played all but two of the album's 12 songs. It's not the most stylistically cohesive album in the world. If "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" was their "Sgt. Pepper," then this is their "White Album," sprawling all over the map and taking Wilco with it...
As rewarding as it was to hear those new songs performed by a lineup that was only strengthened by the recent acquisition of guitarist Nels Cline and keyboardist Pat Sansone, several of the concert's highlights came from earlier releases.
Every older song they played, in fact, found Tweedy and his latest bandmates investing the past with a sense of discovery, whether bringing extra texture to the Woody Guthrie folk-pop treasure "California Stars," or investing "A Shot in the Arm" with a greater intensity than the version on "Summerteeth."
That's what I'm talking about.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
[QB] Not to be difficult, but my preference has always been for early Beatles.
And I'll take a collection of Beach Boys singles over Pet Sounds as well.
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Now that's just silly.
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
And I'll take a collection of Beach Boys singles over Pet Sounds as well.
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As David St. Hubbins said, its such a fine line between stupid and clever. I don't mind seeing Wilco evolve, but I didn't like YFH much, and found the "alt country Radiohead" thing closer to stupid. It seemed like a stretch into the unknown and unnecessary rather than a natural extension of the band/Tweedy. Other people love it, so I probably missed something and I'm ok with that.
My personal favorite work of Tweedy's was on Mermaid Ave. California Stars is effing brilliant. Also like Being There and Summerteeth.
And for the record, most of Sgt. Pepper's is also closer to stupid. Take out the "hits "Sgt. Pepper's - Help from my Friends - LSD" and "Day in the Life" and its pretty weak.
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Originally posted by Mongo:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Mongo:
I'll be there although I am still trying to find an alternate route from Arlington.
Key Bridge to Whitehurst Freeway to K Street.
K Street to 14th. 14th to U. U to 8th. 8th to V. [/b]
Good point. I think thats my best option. The Chain Bridge would be a complete pain in the ass and forget about 66. [/b]
Anyone have the rights and lefts on these directions?
Also, last week, someone posted directions via E St. exit...anyone remember those? And if so, would it not be the opted way for this evening? Thanks.
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the constitution hall show last year was pretty bad...i honestly thought the sonic youth set was boring although it could've just been the venue; d.a.r. hall is absolutely one of the worst i've ever been to (no standing policy, couldn't exit/reenter to have a smoke, atm's inside were broken so i couldn't even buy an overpriced beer).
with the exception of kicking television/ kidsmoke, i had heard them play an almost identical set to the 3 or 4 shows prior. admittedly, i was a bit bored also (once again, i blame it on the venue and nosebleed seats). i did, however, enjoy hearing kidsmoke (all 11 minutes of it) with jim o'rourke on guitar. i saw loose fur in brooklyn a year before that and loved the new sound. i'm glad they've shifted some of their energy in that direction and i hope a lot of other wilco fans feel the same.
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i honestly thought the sonic youth set was boring although it could've just been the venue; d.a.r. hall is absolutely one of the worst i've ever been to (no standing policy, couldn't exit/reenter to have a smoke, atm's inside were broken so i couldn't even buy an overpriced beer).
Just wondering, cuz I wasn't there...how do the reasons you mention above serve as evidence that Sonic Youth was "boring"?
Originally posted by joz:
the constitution hall show last year was pretty bad...i honestly thought the sonic youth set was boring although it could've just been the venue; d.a.r. hall is absolutely one of the worst i've ever been to (no standing policy, couldn't exit/reenter to have a smoke, atm's inside were broken so i couldn't even buy an overpriced beer).
with the exception of kicking television/ kidsmoke, i had heard them play an almost identical set to the 3 or 4 shows prior. admittedly, i was a bit bored also (once again, i blame it on the venue and nosebleed seats). i did, however, enjoy hearing kidsmoke (all 11 minutes of it) with jim o'rourke on guitar. i saw loose fur in brooklyn a year before that and loved the new sound. i'm glad they've shifted some of their energy in that direction and i hope a lot of other wilco fans feel the same.
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From Key Bridge, take a right on the Whitehurst Freeway (the entrance is on the bridge itself before you get to M St.).
Bear left when the freeway ends, and you will be on K St.
Go about ten blocks and take a left on 14th St.
Go ten blocks and take a right on U St.
Go six blocks and take a left on 8th St.
Go one block and take a left on V St.
Go one block and look out the passenger's window.
Originally posted by Sugartastic Tee Silk:
Originally posted by Mongo:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Mongo:
I'll be there although I am still trying to find an alternate route from Arlington.
Key Bridge to Whitehurst Freeway to K Street.
K Street to 14th. 14th to U. U to 8th. 8th to V. [/b]
Good point. I think thats my best option. The Chain Bridge would be a complete pain in the ass and forget about 66. [/b]
Anyone have the rights and lefts on these directions?
Also, last week, someone posted directions via E St. exit...anyone remember those? And if so, would it not be the opted way for this evening? Thanks. [/b]
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And then drive back over to 15th and S or so and park so your car don't get broke into.
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
From Key Bridge, take a right on the Whitehurst Freeway (the entrance is on the bridge itself before you get to M St.).
Bear left when the freeway ends, and you will be on K St.
Go about ten blocks and take a left on 14th St.
Go ten blocks and take a right on U St.
Go eight blocks and take a left on 8th St.
Go one block and take a left on V St.
Go one block and look out the passenger's window.
Originally posted by Sugartastic Tee Silk:
Originally posted by Mongo:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Mongo:
I'll be there although I am still trying to find an alternate route from Arlington.
Key Bridge to Whitehurst Freeway to K Street.
K Street to 14th. 14th to U. U to 8th. 8th to V. [/b]
Good point. I think thats my best option. The Chain Bridge would be a complete pain in the ass and forget about 66. [/b]
Anyone have the rights and lefts on these directions?
Also, last week, someone posted directions via E St. exit...anyone remember those? And if so, would it not be the opted way for this evening? Thanks. [/b]
[/b]
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guess you can't fathom how sitting in a cavernous theater listening to sonic youth drone on and on and on could possibly be boring. a venue has a lot to do with the vibe of a show and i can say that sonic youth did not carry that place...at least they didn't carry me.
i know i'm opening a big can of squishy worms with this one but honestly, rhett, i haven't seen you post anything halfway intelligent on this thread. does it pleasure you to be caustic and antagonize people?
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
And then drive back over to 15th and S or so and park so your car don't get broke into.
I park the GGWmobile on the street around the 9:30 and the Black Cat all the time and it's never been broken into.
Then again, nobody has ever clocked me with a beer bottle at a show either.
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Originally posted by joz:
rhett, i haven't seen you post anything halfway intelligent on this thread. does it pleasure you to be caustic and antagonize people?
Welcome to The Forum.
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does it pleasure you to be caustic and antagonize people?
welcome to our world joz....
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I generally go to the lot.
ggw - Danke Schoen! Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
And then drive back over to 15th and S or so and park so your car don't get broke into.
I park the GGWmobile on the street around the 9:30 and the Black Cat all the time and it's never been broken into.
Then again, nobody has ever clocked me with a beer bottle at a show either. [/b]
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I could be in any venue in the world and still think Sonic Youth was boring. Whereas if I like a band, I'm going to like them in just about any venue. Doesn't make that much difference to me, if the band is really good.
I was just asking. I didn't realize cigarettes and alcohol were prerequirements to enjoying a show. If that were the case, I feel sorry for our good friend Kosmo.
And I do prefer the simplicity of the first two Wilco albums over their more convoluted later stuff, as well as the simplicity of the Beatles earlier work, which was more inspired by early rock and roll as opposed to their drug consumption...and ditto for Beach Boys singles over Pet Sounds...much more poppy and listenable. I think those comments are more a reflection of my taste than lack of intelligence.
Originally posted by joz:
guess you can't fathom how sitting in a cavernous theater listening to sonic youth drone on and on and on could possibly be boring. a venue has a lot to do with the vibe of a show and i can say that sonic youth did not carry that place...at least they didn't carry me.
i know i'm opening a big can of squishy worms with this one but honestly, rhett, i haven't seen you post anything halfway intelligent on this thread. does it pleasure you to be caustic and antagonize people?
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You've got your initials on all of your dress shirts, don't you.
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
I park the GGWmobile on the street around the 9:30 and the Black Cat all the time and it's never been broken into.
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Doesn't everyone?
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
You've got your initials on all of your dress shirts, don't you.
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
I park the GGWmobile on the street around the 9:30 and the Black Cat all the time and it's never been broken into.
[/b]
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Originally posted by Mongo:
Anyway, has anyone learned anymore about the availability of the Heads of State concert poster. I assume it will be for sale at the show. I'd definitely like to get my mits on one.
The Heads of State confirmed that the poster will be available at the show and on Wilco's site (assuming there are some leftovers).
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Doesn't everyone?
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
You've got your initials on all of your dress shirts, don't you.
[/b]
[/b]
[/QB]
Seriously, why the hell do people do that?
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Anyone looking for a pair of tickets, check the new post from eddie on the ticket exchange..
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Great show! With a bonus third encore!
Anyone have a set list?
Anyone record the web cast?
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oh naive little freddy, he's never seen a sold-out 930 club and had no idea it would be so packed. i waltzed in too late and got stuck behind some idiots. how did wilco get so popular?
this one's to grow on..
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I was just asking. I didn't realize cigarettes and alcohol were prerequirements to enjoying a show. If that were the case, I feel sorry for our good friend Kosmo.
You know based on this thread I was beginning to wonder if I should start dumping vast parts of my record collection (i.e. all the greatest hits, singles comps, early career records, power pop, etc) and go out and buy the "correct" records with lots of experimentation and wank. Now I find out why I can't enjoy shows either...
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Well we lasted 73 minutes before we had to bail.
Can someone think of an intelligent way to say "Wilco's new songs blow chunks?"
What a disappointment.
Think I'll stick to the Drive By Truckers, BR549, and the Old 97's when I want a good show.
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setlist from last night
1. The Late Greats
2. Company In My Back
3. Hummingbird
4. At Least That's What You Said
5. War On War
6. I Am Trying To Break Your Heart
7. Jesus, Etc.
8. I'm Always In Love
9. Hell Is Chrome
10. Muzzle Of Bees
11. A Shot In The Arm
12. Radio Cure
13. I'm The Man Who Loves You
14. One By One
15. Poor Places
16. Handshake Drugs
Encore 1:
17. Theologians
18. California Stars
19. Heavy Metal Drummer
20. I'm A Wheel
Encore 2:
21. Via Chicago
22. Spiders (Kidsmoke)
23. The Lonely 1
Encore 3:
24. Passenger Side
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Can someone think of an intelligent way to say "Wilco's new songs blow chunks?"
Wilco's journey into the unknown left me nostalgic for the good olde days.
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Looks like they saved a few oldies for the encores, but I was gone by that point. :(
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Can someone think of an intelligent way to say "Wilco's new songs blow chunks?"
Wilco's journey into the unknown left me nostalgic for the good olde days. [/b]
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I was ready to be disappointed, but it was not as bad as I thought it would be. I liked Hummingbird. That being said, I didn't enjoy it as much as the shows a couple of years ago.
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Great show. I thought they sounded as excellent last night as any of the four other times I've seen them. Perhaps even better. Complain about the song selections if you like, but Tweedy's voice was strong and the band was tight. Two thumbs up.
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What's the deal with Tweedy's hair?
What an awful mess.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Complain about the song selections if you like
I didn't like the song selection
but I agree that the band sounded very good
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I think Tweedy has finally found the perfect sidemen: guys who are technically very efficient, but incredibly boring to look at and watch. Man, I miss Jay Bennett.
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great show. i actually like the new songs, although a 10 minute song in an encore seemed self-indulgent.
It was great to see Tweedy happy, smiling, posing, etc.
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via chicago made my night. i've never seen them play it and was beginning to think i'd have to fly to chicago and see them there to hear it. nels is a bombastic guitarist and great addition to the band...i do miss leroy tho.
overall, it was a fantastic show...not the best i've seen them do, but it's certainly up there...and i'll second freddy's earlier comment about being surrounded by wankers. from what i've read of this morning's posts, it sounds like most of you pseudo wilco fans should have sold your tix outside or on ebay to true fans who really would have appreciated the show.
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Originally posted by joz:
from what i've read of this morning's posts, it sounds like most of you pseudo wilco fans should have sold your tix outside or on ebay to true fans who really would have appreciated the show.
you're an idiot
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I also thought last night was the shortest crowd I've ever seen. Honestly, the median height for males at the show couldn't have been much over 5' 6"
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"my wilco is better than your wilco" :roll:
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Wait a minute, buddy. You got that all wrong. WE'RE supposed to make fun of YOU for only liking their newer, more-mainstream, more-press-attention songs. You can be elitist for the new sound. That's ass-backwards.
Anyway, the show was a HUGE improvement over the show with Sonic Youth. Tweedy didn't feel the need to compete, I guess. And I don't really think the new songs were bad...at least they sounded better live than on record, I thought. Still, why couldn't they have played Box Full of Letters or Acuff Rose?
Originally posted by joz:
from what i've read of this morning's posts, it sounds like most of you pseudo wilco fans should have sold your tix outside or on ebay to true fans who really would have appreciated the show.
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Wasn't Jay Farrar on vox for Acuff-Rose?
I wanted Casino Queen and Kingpin. But maybe those songs are all long gone.
The five 6'+ guys who brought the height average up to 5'6" (except for ggw) were all standing about 6 feet in front of me, blocking my view of Tweedy's bad hair and silly suit.
I did figure out the best way to avoid standing next to a smoker...find the nerdiest looking people you can, and stand next to them. And there sure were a lot of nerds at the show.
The guy behind me with the gay looking gelled hair with the flip-up circa 1999 hairstyle who looked like he just dropped in from a Blink 182 concert? I knew he was going to light up.
Originally posted by nkotbie:
Wait a minute, buddy. You got that all wrong. WE'RE supposed to make fun of YOU for only liking their newer, more-mainstream, more-press-attention songs. You can be elitist for the new sound. That's ass-backwards.
Anyway, the show was a HUGE improvement over the show with Sonic Youth. Tweedy didn't feel the need to compete, I guess. And I don't really think the new songs were bad...at least they sounded better live than on record, I thought. Still, why couldn't they have played Box Full of Letters or Acuff Rose?
Originally posted by joz:
from what i've read of this morning's posts, it sounds like most of you pseudo wilco fans should have sold your tix outside or on ebay to true fans who really would have appreciated the show.
[/b]
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Bottom line is that the show was good but by ignoring an entire period of the band's history, they leave more to be desired. From my view, Tweedy and the gang (not to mention the audience) were having the most fun on 'Shot in the Arm' and 'Passenger'...
I dig the new album, but it kinda disturbs me that the setlist for every show has been nearly identical- focusing only on Ghost and YHF. The boys need to acknowledge their core audience a little more and just throw a couple gems out there from the past.
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You'd know better than I would since I'm such a late convert, but I'm pretty sure it was Tweedy. Doesn't he play it on the documentary during a solo show?
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Wasn't Jay Farrar on vox for Acuff-Rose?
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Last night's show was ridiculously oversold. 9:30 is just as shady as any other concert promoter.
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Originally posted by MET:
Last night's show was ridiculously oversold. 9:30 is just as shady as any other concert promoter.
didn't seem any worse than any other sold out show
I am sure it did not help floorspace that they had recording equipment/webcasting equipment set up
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Originally posted by MET:
Last night's show was ridiculously oversold. 9:30 is just as shady as any other concert promoter.
:roll:
cue thatguy, seth, etc... or the fire marshall
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not too sure about the show being oversold, probably downstairs people just kept piling in, there was room upstairs.
i thought the band was really good, but like others, i'd like to hear more older songs on their setlist.
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Also, the crowd was 90% dude. Felt like I was at Ozzfest.
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the show was very crowded. more so than many other sold out shows I have been to at 930. maybe the fault of the "taping area," maybe the fault of people like those in front of me who tried to keep around a 4 foot buffer zone in front of them.
it was funny when an interloper finally just took the buffer space away from them during the encores.
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Originally posted by MET:
Also, the crowd was 90% dude. Felt like I was at Ozzfest.
So true... dude in front of me even had his shirt off and was dangerously close to performing the helicopter swing at one point.
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Yes, but at least they were short, nerdy dudes.
One of the cardinal rules of alt-country is that the only chicks there are the ones dragged there by their boyfriends.
You want chicks? Go see Gavin DeGraw.
Originally posted by MET:
Also, the crowd was 90% dude. Felt like I was at Ozzfest.
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I found the crowd to be weigh heavily towards urban bespectacled gifted + talented nicotine abusers. I thought it was a great show. Wilco still seems to be in the process of growing into itself. The "new" sound works when the songs stay grounded with some emotional resonance . . . sometimes it worked, sometimes it worked less well (drifting into the meaningless). I might be mixed up with the songs, but I thought the Wilco 2004 made particular sense during the spacy end of Poor Places transitioning into an alt.rocking Handshake Drugs to end the set pre-encore.
The pacing of the show probably could have been better . . . which, as has been mentioned, would have been helped by more older songs. Radiohead still mixes it up a bit, Wilco can too.
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Originally posted by MET:
Also, the crowd was 90% dude. Felt like I was at Ozzfest.
I think it was closer to 50/50 upstairs.
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i heard the new album a couple of weeks ago through the stream on the website. i kept listening to it over and over, to the point where i knew most of the words. that made a huge difference rather than going in cold turkey.
i'm sure they are just trying out the new songs..i would like to believe that they'll return in the fall. and this time none of you biyatches will keep me out of the front row. :mad:
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Think I'll stick to the Drive By Truckers, BR549, and the Old 97's when I want a good show.
i've seen all three of these bands this year, and while all three have been very good, wilco last night absolutely blew any of those shows away. for me, it's not even close, but what do i know? i actually like bands that take chances and don't feel the need to pander to their audience.
i love all of wilco's earlier records, and i think the recent material (YHF and AGIB) is just as phenomenal, though certainly not as immediate or catchy. the melodies reveal themselves more clearly with each listen, and wilco's one of the few bands that can incorporate noisy, discordant parts into a somber pop song well. nels cline is an amazing guitarist (who did NOT ruin the geraldine fibbers) who knew when to lay back and play the part and only ripped when the time was right. tweedy sounded great. wilco did not disappoint me in the least, and were as good as any other time i'd seen them.
"via chicago" really made my night, but that whole encore was truly incredible. i thought they pulled off the pseudo-krautrock epic well, and closing with "the lonely 1", and then "passenger side" in the final encore, was just perfect.
it's too bad those of you stuck in 1999 can't take a time machine back to the summerteeth tour. me, i'll take 2004 wilco.
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Originally posted by joz:
ok pollard...let's talk bands that are derivative. let me preface this comment by saying that I really dig GBV, but seriously...is there another band out there that has ripped off more from the Who and the Beatles?
Okay, I haven't read on through this thread, but come on -- about 60% of bands in the indie/rock/power pop genre all have roots back to these two bands. Throw in a little Stones, you got 80%. Be real.
Because *you* think that the bands Wilco is aping are more important, that's supposed to make a difference?
and exile in guyville...CMON! i liked that album when i was a confused 18yo but i dug it out again recently and realized that she was never really good. the album title wasn't even original!
That certainly puts you in the minority, my friend. That album remains among the top of the 90s across various venues (critic's lists, magazine lists, folks who love music just plain talking....). But you obviously are not the audience for that album as you don't even get that the title is all about the structure of the album.
Joz, you seem to be one of those "I know more than you, my taste is better so I'm right and you're wrong" folks. Sure, we can debate the durability of various albums, etc., but you dismiss out of hand perspectives that aren't yours. That's not a fun or interesting discussion, in my opinion.
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Originally posted by snailhook:
it's too bad those of you stuck in 1999 can't take a time machine back to the summerteeth tour. me, i'll take 2004 wilco. [/b]
why can't you accept that I prefer the old shows, it doesn't mean that they suck now, it means when I was in attendance at the old shows, I enjoyed myself more, it doesn't mean I don't get it now, it doesn't lessen your experience, it is my experience, now why don't you and joz get out of your own assholes, and realize you are telling us we are wrong about something subjective, if everyone had to accept some things are good and others are bad, half of your favorite bands probably would not exist
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I could be in any venue in the world and still think Sonic Youth was boring. Whereas if I like a band, I'm going to like them in just about any venue. Doesn't make that much difference to me, if the band is really good.
I agree -- I'd be bored by SY in any venue. But I will say, Sleater-Kinney, one of my faves and I think a great, energetic live act, was just drowned out and awful at DAR. Bad venue made for bad show.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
I also thought last night was the shortest crowd I've ever seen. Honestly, the median height for males at the show couldn't have been much over 5' 6"
Iota must have been empty then. Previously, I've noticed that Iota is full of very short men and Rhett clones. There's even an older version of Celeste there. No wonder Mr. and Mrs. Miller like that place so much. They feel right at home and
Rhett almost towers above the crowd. :p
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why can't you accept that I prefer the old shows, it doesn't mean that they suck now, it means when I was in attendance at the old shows, I enjoyed myself more, it doesn't mean I don't get it now, it doesn't lessen your experience, it is my experience, now why don't you and joz get out of your own assholes, and realize you are telling us we are wrong about something subjective, if everyone had to accept some things are good and others are bad, half of your favorite bands probably would not exist
pollard, man, chill out. i wasn't directing any vitriol towards you...i reserve that more for people like rhett who condescendingly sneer at some bands without obviously even trying to understand what they're aiming for. i don't get that from you, so don't be so defensive. although, it's hard not to be around here sometimes. i love music and am pretty opinionated about it, as i would hope people on a music board would be.
anyway, i understand what you mean. take pavement. i love everything up to and including wowwe zowee, but brighten the corners and terror twilight bore the piss out of me. i love all GBV up to mag earwhig but i think their records since then have been weak and second-rate. i still like tortoise but i doubt they'll ever come close to their first two albums. on the other hand, i still think that wilco, sonic youth, yo la tengo, nick cave, and blonde redhead (for a few examples) are constantly progressing and evolving. some people would argue with each and every one of those examples.
would it make you feel better if i said i wish i could take a time machine back to 1994 after crooked rain came out?
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After reading three pages of this thread, I don't think anyone around here has the right to make fun of Mankie or myself for still liking 80's music. :D
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Originally posted by Jaguär:
...very short men and Rhett clones...
There's a difference?
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While it may not be universally true, I'm betting that most of the 'true fans' - that are totally happy only hearing the 2 latest records - discovered Wilco relatively late. Probably even went back and bought some Uncle Tupelo as historical research.
Otherwise, I can't comprehend how you could not want to hear some of the songs that made you love this band/artist in the 1st place.
[Assuming that you've actually moved out of Mom & Dad's house], I pity the parents of those exclaiming "Wilco is NOW! 2004 YEAH! Onward & Upward". I guess you don't often take the 'time machine' back for visit.
...prepping for the 'when I was your age' responses...
********************
I just noticed this evidence to support my theorem:
"it's too bad those of you stuck in 1999 can't take a time machine back to the summerteeth tour."
ALL THE WAY BACK to Summerteeth. :roll: Which is incidentally about 3/4's of the way through Tweedy's creative output.
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From the latest issue of Esquire:
(Yes I'm stirring the pot and The Young Heart Attack Record sounds like it RAWKS!!!!!)
Five Records to Buy Instead of Wilco's
While others debate the brilliance of Americana's it band, spend your timeâ??and moneyâ??more wisely on one of these five CDs
by Andy Langer | Jul 01 '04
You're going to be hearing a lot about Wilco this month, what with all the critical hullabaloo surrounding its much-anticipated new album, A Ghost Is Born. But you won't find much fawning here. Maybe it's just that I prefer the days when Huey Lewis & the News was America's whitest band, but I'm completely indifferent to the Wilco phenomenon. It's not that the band is bad, it's just boring. And while I'd like to tell you about the three months of dust collecting on my advance copy of A Ghost Is Born , I'm afraid that Wilco's fresh-out-of-rehab lead singer, Jeff Tweedy, might come over and snort it.
The good news is that the stack of CDs in my listening pile next to Wilco has turned out to be a gold mine of extraordinary records. Although they cross genres and continents, the following five records are united by the fact that they don't just sound important, they also feel it.
Young Heart Attack, Mouthful of Love (XL Recordings/Beggar's Group): Enough with the Darkness already. It deserves props for anticipating our longing for a new Freddie Mercury, and, yes, it believes in a thing called love, but it'd be nice if the band believed in a thing called songwriting, too. Fortunately, Young Heart Attack doesâ??offering cock-rock, full-monty attitude and impossible-to-deny riffage. And while the Darkness's Justin Hawkins sounds as if he's sucking helium balloons, Young Heart Attack has a singer filled with estrogen; its X-factor is Jennifer Stephens, a second vocalist who breaks up the boy's club with slinky splashes of Motown sass. The result will have you throwing up devil signs at passing cars. As luck would have it, one of the first great rock albums of 2004 may also be the last great album of 1979.
The Streets, A Grand Don't Come for Free (Vice/ Atlantic): Before we groan at the idea of white British rappers making concept records, it's important to note that Mike Skinner (aka the Streets) is pop music's rarest commodity: a singular talent. Implausibly imaginative, Skinner comes to the table with Jonathan Safran Foer's flair for language and Seinfeld's knack for making the mundane fascinating. And so it's little surprise A Grand Don't Come for Free 's glory lies in the minutiae. Across 11 intricately linked songs, Skinner lays out the story of a missing 1,000 pounds, a tale flush with broken televisions, cheap pints, and shitty cell-phone reception. Behind his odd syllable splits and trippy dance beats is good old-fashioned yarn spinning; his gorgeous "Dry Your Eyes" chronicles a lover's rejection with more details than an episode of MTV's Pimp My Ride . Most impressive is how well A Grand Don't Come for Free holds up to repeat listens. Whereas other concept records tend to get old quick, here new plot points reveal themselves with every spin.
Burning Brides , Leave No Ashes (V2): Two years ago, this Philadelphia-based trio's no-budget, homespun debut earned its fair share of comparisons to Nirvana's Bleach . And while news that the Brides would be shaking their moneymakers with high-priced Black Crowes producer George Drakoulis reeked of a sellout, Leave No Ashes has wound up smelling more like a big step up. By matching sonic hugeness with superbly crafted songs, this moody masterpiece confirms the Foo Fighter principle: Bombast and taste aren't mutually exclusive. Better still, the blaze and bluster of tunes like "Heart Full of Black" and the title track authenticate another important point: Shouting at the devil over loud guitars never gets old.
Patty Griffin, Impossible Dream (ATO): The American Idol finale I'd like to have seen would have pitted Emmylou Harris against Patty Griffin. And I'd have put five bucks on Simon Cowell doing the crying. At 40, Griffin has a voice that carries compassion, strength, and struggle. And her songwriting is brilliant on Impossible Dream . From the southern-Gothic blues of "Love Throw a Line" to her snappy repossession of "Top of the World" (a tune Griffin wrote but the Dixie Chicks popularized), there are more than enough vital melodies and vivid details here to hold your attention. If for no other reason, buy it because her "Cold as It Gets" will sound great on your next post-breakup compilation. Any song that ends with "I live only to see you live to regret everything that you've done" is all right by me.
The Cardigans, Long Gone Before Daylight (Koch): On their first collection in six years, these icy Swedes prove their legacy might just amount to more than an early secretary-pop hit (1997's "Lovefool") and a history of kitschy Black Sabbath covers. It's a comeback that rests squarely on leader Nina Persson's golden throat and dark diary; rarely do you hear a voice this exquisite wrapped around love songs so twisted. Sure, there's an almost too cheery slice of domestic violence ("And Then You Kissed Me"), but for my money, that the Cardigans have delivered a comeback this edgy is really sucker punch enough.
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
From the latest issue of Esquire:
...and The Young Heart Attack Record sounds like it RAWKS!!!!!
Good stuff Kosmo. You've got me interested in this one. Sounds like a nice summer addition.
More good pub from AMG:
It's appropriate that Young Heart Attack hail from Austin, as their XL debut feels like a love letter to the kids in Dazed and Confused, Richard Linklater's meditation on teenage kicks in 1970s Texas. Mouthful of Love is a mulletheaded rush of the Who, Led Zeppelin, and the Sweet's "Fox on the Run" â?? it's nappy, not slow, and likely narcotics-fueled. Daltrey-do'd vocalist/guitarist Chris Hodge shares the mike with slender Jennifer Stephens. It's a weird mix, because Hodge is one of those guys who doesn't so much sing as scream (see Brian Johnson), and Stephens wails with the high-pitched glee of a singer who can sing and who knows it. But the two make it work, painfully so â?? they demand Mouthful of Love be played through cabinet speakers, because that's the only way their collective yowling and the din of two guitars won't destroy the ears. In typical '70s revivalist fashion, the introductory title track spends nearly a minute rocking before the vocalists come in, making their mark on the line "Boots are gonna knock now." "Starlite" is a completely un-ironic love anthem ("Because you wear my jacket girl!"), a triumphant big block stomp decorated with a gorgeous chorus break from Stephens, and "Tommy Shots"' ridiculous thrill of crackling riff and flying spit foreshadows "Over and Over," Young Heart Attack's MC5 cover that builds an addition onto the phrase "over the top." It's all ascending "Do do do do do do do doo!" vocal squeals, Hodge's clenched-eyelids lead, and caterwauling electric guitar baited by pounding snare. But as giddy as all of this is, YHA's enthusiasm can work against them. Their songs contain so many relentlessly exciting chunks, it can be difficult for the band to build a dynamic beyond Rock! You! Right! Now! Ahhrrggh! Still, the loopy intro and subsequent Stones vibe of "(Take Me Back) Mary Jane" offer some levity, and make the double-time stumble of "Sick of Doing Time" even more satisfying. By the time closer "Misty Rowe" rolls around, you're back to reveling in throbbing summer-night nostalgia. Whose summer nights? Who cares? A case of Shiner, loud guitars, and hot American metal through the ass of your jeans â?? that's a Mouthful of Love, and it's about to eat you for dinner. â?? Johnny Loftus
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the zep, who, "foxy on the run" description seals it for me... i wonder if it's easily gotten today. i may need to inflict it on the rooneyites today
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
i wonder if it's easily gotten today. i may need to inflict it on the rooneyites today
A release date of 5/4/04. Should be available somewhere.
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Kosmo,
Those music reviews are almost criminally bad.
"that the Cardigans have delivered a comeback this edgy is really sucker punch enough."
Does anyone really say edgy anymore? The cardigans album is a favourite of mine. But, ahem, edgy it is not. To quote a somewhat better musical reviewer, "If you like this shit, you might as well llisten to Sheryl Crow."
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That's hilarious. Who said that?
Originally posted by mark e smith:
"If you like this shit, you might as well llisten to Sheryl Crow."
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Originally posted by thirsty moore:
That's hilarious. Who said that?
Originally posted by mark e smith:
"If you like this shit, you might as well llisten to Sheryl Crow."
[/b]
A moron.
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Originally posted by mark e smith:
Does anyone really say edgy anymore?
It must still be acceptable - I've seen it used in Bigyawn reviews:
" Koshari's music stirs from the center of progressive rock with its tightly locked rhythms and searing dissonance. The music, vocals and lyrics compliment each other to create an edgy smooth tension that is tinged with fear, anger and hope."
and
"Last Second Comeback's music demands to be heard: An original mix of frenetic acoustic guitar, searing electric guitar leads, and driving hand percussion. The band's 2003 debut album Cornered features edgy, revealing songwriting by Jeff Campagna. LSC recorded the CD with producer Philip Stevenson and then mastered it with Bob Olhsson in Nashville."
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actually i thought it was a pretty good preview/overview of the records. it got me interested in the young heart attack cd and the burning brides comments are spot on. give him credit for not spending lots of time saying the new wilco bored him and getting down to the point of telling us which new records are doing it for him instead.
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Originally posted by Rob_Gee_a.k.a _Guiny:
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
That's hilarious. Who said that?
Originally posted by mark e smith:
"If you like this shit, you might as well llisten to Sheryl Crow."
[/b]
A moron. [/b]
No, I am pretty sure it was not you who said it.
Why do you think that comment is moronic? Do you listen to a lot of Sheryl Crow?
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
actually i thought it was a pretty good preview/overview of the records.
You are probably right. The cardigans review was rather odd though and it was fun to use it against you.
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Originally posted by snailhook:
pollard, man, chill out. i wasn't directing any vitriol towards you...i reserve that more for people like rhett who condescendingly sneer at some bands without obviously even trying to understand what they're aiming for. i don't get that from you, so don't be so defensive. although, it's hard not to be around here sometimes. i love music and am pretty opinionated about it, as i would hope people on a music board would be.
anyway, i understand what you mean. take pavement. i love everything up to and including wowwe zowee, but brighten the corners and terror twilight bore the piss out of me. i love all GBV up to mag earwhig but i think their records since then have been weak and second-rate. i still like tortoise but i doubt they'll ever come close to their first two albums. on the other hand, i still think that wilco, sonic youth, yo la tengo, nick cave, and blonde redhead (for a few examples) are constantly progressing and evolving. some people would argue with each and every one of those examples.
would it make you feel better if i said i wish i could take a time machine back to 1994 after crooked rain came out?
oh I am fine, I just assumed your comment was like joz's comment saying that fans have to like the band the way he likes them
as far as GBV goes, I know most people feel that way, I still think there are some great songs after mag earwhig and even on mag earwhig, and even better ones on the hold on hope ep which is b sides to Do the Collapse, but I understand the opinion, there was a clear change
for Pavement, I actually just listened to Terror Twilight and Brighten the Corners the other day and enjoyed them, and was even saying that musically, BTC is better than Slanted and Enhcanted, but I know that isn't the accepted opinion.
I will agree with you on Sonic Youth and Nick Cave still make good albums, although I am not sure how much they are progressing. I love Nick Cave but thought Nocturama was a bit of a letdown, we'll see how the new album is. Sonic Nurse is great, but not a huge change I dont think. I only have one Blonde Redhead album, the new one. And I still have yet to hear the new Yo La Tengo.
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Originally posted by Rob_Gee_a.k.a _Guiny:
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
That's hilarious. Who said that?
Originally posted by mark e smith:
"If you like this shit, you might as well llisten to Sheryl Crow."
[/b]
A moron. [/b]
thanks Guiny
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I'm here for ya.
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pollard, i do agree with most of what joz has said in this thread, but not in the way he presented it. if you are a long-time fan of the band, you have every right to see them and criticize them. i was in no way implying that you weren't a "true" fan.
to answer your replies to which bands i said were "progressing", we could actually debate this all day. sometimes there is a fine line between "just making good records" and "progressing/evolving". the new sonic youth record is great, but it is more of a logical extension to murray street than it is a progression from it. these statements are far from black and white and are perhaps more useful to spark discussion than accepting them as matter-of-fact.
grotty:
While it may not be universally true, I'm betting that most of the 'true fans' - that are totally happy only hearing the 2 latest records - discovered Wilco relatively late. Probably even went back and bought some Uncle Tupelo as historical research.
Otherwise, I can't comprehend how you could not want to hear some of the songs that made you love this band/artist in the 1st place.
[Assuming that you've actually moved out of Mom & Dad's house], I pity the parents of those exclaiming "Wilco is NOW! 2004 YEAH! Onward & Upward". I guess you don't often take the 'time machine' back for visit.
...prepping for the 'when I was your age' responses...
********************
I just noticed this evidence to support my theorem:
"it's too bad those of you stuck in 1999 can't take a time machine back to the summerteeth tour."
ALL THE WAY BACK to Summerteeth. Which is incidentally about 3/4's of the way through Tweedy's creative output.
what are you getting at? does the fact that i bought a.m. in 1995 and first saw wilco on the being there tour in 1997 disprove your notion that people that don't NEED to hear songs off their first three albums "discovered wilco relatively late?" i also have not lived with mommy and daddy since i went to college when i was 18 (this is a piss-poor insult, by the way). last i checked, wilco fans aren't in the same demographic as blink-182 fans.
i also used the summerteeth tour as a reference because it was, arguably, the last time wilco was pretty accessible. there is a considerable jump in their sound from sumemrteeth to yankee hotel foxtrot. i love everything they've ever done, and i love how each record differs from the others. to be honest, in retrospect, a.m. has plenty of good songs, but as an album, it's not such a memorable experience, at least for me.
lastly, i love hearing the old songs, too, but i was perfectly happy with the amount they played the other night. i've seen some bands that completely ignore their back catalog; wilco played at least five songs from their first three albums from what i remember.
perhaps i am in the minority, because i can appreciate melodious alt-country just as much as abstract, discordant noise.
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Originally posted by grotty:
Originally posted by mark e smith:
Does anyone really say edgy anymore?
It must still be acceptable - I've seen it used in Bigyawn reviews:
" Koshari's music stirs from the center of progressive rock with its tightly locked rhythms and searing dissonance. The music, vocals and lyrics compliment each other to create an edgy smooth tension that is tinged with fear, anger and hope."
[/b]
Koshari - they were my neighbors up until I moved last week.
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thanks for your candor, snail and pollard. i've enjoyed reading your recent posts and wanted to set a couple of things straight...#1 - i'm a 'she'. secondly, my only post that was directed at pollard was in reference to his insinuation that wilco's new sound is merely a cheap rip-off of sonic youth. i can honestly say that the majority of my comments were clearly directed at Rhett, who apparently left the show too early to hear wilco pull out some gems from the older catalog. ridiculous.
i've been a wilco fan for a long time and, like snail, i enjoy the entire catalog and have fond memories and associations for each album as to the time in my life i was listening. to each his own though ... i can understand that some people are really turned off by the dissonance and raw noise of the last couple of albums. maybe it'll grow on them though as the songs are really beautiful, both lyrically and melodically, once you get past the reverb. there are a handful of bands i wish had stopped recording long ago so i can appreciate that point of view also.
there's certainly a lot of negativity and "vitriol" (great underused word by the way) on this forum and i truly didn't mean to piss on anyone's parade. hope you all have a nice weekend...
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Originally posted by snailhook:
lastly, i love hearing the old songs, too, but i was perfectly happy with the amount they played the other night. i've seen some bands that completely ignore their back catalog; wilco played at least five songs from their first three albums from what i remember.
perhaps i am in the minority, because i can appreciate melodious alt-country just as much as abstract, discordant noise.
Well there was nothing off of Being There, which for me is almost a waste. Not a total waste, but I really love that album. I would have been happy with just Misunderstood or Sunken Treasure.
And not to the same degree as you but I can also appreciate melodious alt-country and abstract, discordant noise. My point before (maybe in another thread) was that I just don't think Wilco should try both, but that is just my opinion.
Because of all this discussion, I listened to No Depression earlier today, and that Jeff Tweedy sounds nothing at all like the Jeff Tweedy of today. Not a judgement, just an observation.
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don't forget about 'the lonely 1'...that was a pretty amazing live version of one of my fave BT tracks.
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Originally posted by snailhook:
what are you getting at? does the fact that i bought a.m. in 1995 and first saw wilco on the being there tour in 1997 disprove your notion that people that don't NEED to hear songs off their first three albums "discovered wilco relatively late?" i also have not lived with mommy and daddy since i went to college when i was 18 (this is a piss-poor insult, by the way).
I was getting to a major point that whatever the first Wilco/Tweedy record that first resonated with you, will probably be the songs you wish to hear.
And none of that was meant to be very insulting. You used "Mommy & Daddy" - not me. That was a clarifier, because obviously if you still lived with your parents (and I have NO idea really who on here does) then my example would not be relevant. I can see how you may have taken it as an insult though since your tone initially was pretty combative. See:
"it's too bad those of you stuck in 1999 can't take a time machine back to the summerteeth tour."
What you're not getting is that no one on this thread (other than Rhett - who is generally pretty contrary - and even that grows on you) said that the new stuff is not good. I really like the last 2 records. I think they contain many of Wilco's finest songs. Yet it's still only a small portion. It's really been more a question of balance.
I'll stick by my theory though until I see some proof of an A.M. purchase in 1995. There's no way you remember when you bought that unless you looked up that record's release date! So, to paraphrase..."snailhook, man, chill out" :D
Have a great music filled weekend. Seriously.
I'll be seeing Gillian Welch for free on Sunday evening. Looking forward to another night of country-tinged tunes. Although I doubt there'll be much feedback this time around.
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Originally posted by joz:
secondly, my only post that was directed at pollard was in reference to his insinuation that wilco's new sound is merely a cheap rip-off of sonic youth.
my only point in comparing to Sonic Youth was that when they played their new noisy songs, after what I thought was a pretty good Sonic Youth set, it came off pretty limp to me, the noise making smacked of "I want to do what they did", Tweedy then throwing a tantrum did not help my opinion of the whole thing
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well said, joz. sorry for falling into the dreaded gender trap -- it's too easy to say "he" instead of "he/she".
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ah, the tantrum! i had actually forgotten about that. was it someone trying to take a picture in the front row that was yanking his chain? i guess that constitution hall had the same effect on him as it did me. i was ready to punch something by the time i escaped from that place.
i'm actually pretty sad that show was my first chance to see SY live. i've been told by others that i should really make a point to see them in another, more intimate setting (or at least one where you can stand up and move around a bit). i'm anxious to hear sonic nurse too...maybe i'll buy it this weekend.
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Originally posted by joz:
don't forget about 'the lonely 1'...that was a pretty amazing live version of one of my fave BT tracks.
whoops, yeah I forgot that, but there are so many on that album they could have played, I would rather they skip summer teeth altogether and play several off of BT
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my personal favorite is red-eyed blue but i've seen him do it a few times now. i think i would have rather heard far, far away or say you miss me...or...i could go on and on. btw, BT is my favorite album as well. we may actually agree on something after all pollard!
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Originally posted by pollard:
I would rather they skip summer teeth altogether and play several off of BT
Amen to that.
I'd rank the records:
1 Being There
2 Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
3 A.M.
4 Summer Teeth (even though it contains some of my fav songs, like Via Chicago)
5 A Ghost is Born (Probably too new to rate - but I'm SO digging "At Least That's What You Said" since seeing it live - Even though the recorded version only rocks about 1/2 as hard. I'm very thankful for free streaming.
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I can see how you may have taken it as an insult though since your tone has generally been pretty combative. See:
"it's too bad those of you stuck in 1999 can't take a time machine back to the summerteeth tour."
if my tone has been pretty combative, then you're pretty sensitive. i have a fairly warped, black sense of humor, and my statement wasn't trying to be combative but rather nonchalantly snippy. did i not make it clear that i would do the same thing with pavement? maybe my chronology is off, but i can't be bothered right now to go back and check the order of posts. shit gets miscontrued on the 'net anyway, so apologies if i came off as a dick.
What you're not getting is that no one on this thread (other than Rhett - who is generally pretty contrary) said that the new stuff is not good. It's been more a question of balance.
ok, cool. again, most of the vitriol is aimed at rhett and not you or people like you. although i should learn to take rhett with a grain of salt, since he often seems to be contrary for the sake of being contrary.
I'll stick by theory though until I see some proof of an A.M. purchase in 1995. There's no way you remember when you bought that unless you looked up that record's release date! So, to paraphrase..."snailhook, man, chill out"
actually, grotty, if you know me, you'd know that i have an insane knack -- or disease -- for remembering dates of when i bought albums and when i saw shows (this includes first kisses and such so that my girlfriends don't get pissed off at my obsessive music nerddom). i remember hearing "box full of letters" and digging it enough that i went out and got the album; i was already a fan of the jayhawks and uncle tupelo. i got son volt's trace in early 1996. and i saw wilco for the first time in february 1997 with september 67 opening, and i even have the ticket stub to prove it. how's that?
EDIT: and i agree with your ranking of wilco's records, though i would switch around a.m. and summerteeth.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Wasn't Jay Farrar on vox for Acuff-Rose?
I wanted Casino Queen and Kingpin. But maybe those songs are all long gone.
The five 6'+ guys who brought the height average up to 5'6" (except for ggw) were all standing about 6 feet in front of me, blocking my view of Tweedy's bad hair and silly suit.
I did figure out the best way to avoid standing next to a smoker...find the nerdiest looking people you can, and stand next to them. And there sure were a lot of nerds at the show.
The guy behind me with the gay looking gelled hair with the flip-up circa 1999 hairstyle who looked like he just dropped in from a Blink 182 concert? I knew he was going to light up.
Originally posted by nkotbie:
Wait a minute, buddy. You got that all wrong. WE'RE supposed to make fun of YOU for only liking their newer, more-mainstream, more-press-attention songs. You can be elitist for the new sound. That's ass-backwards.
Anyway, the show was a HUGE improvement over the show with Sonic Youth. Tweedy didn't feel the need to compete, I guess. And I don't really think the new songs were bad...at least they sounded better live than on record, I thought. Still, why couldn't they have played Box Full of Letters or Acuff Rose?
Originally posted by joz:
from what i've read of this morning's posts, it sounds like most of you pseudo wilco fans should have sold your tix outside or on ebay to true fans who really would have appreciated the show.
[/b]
[/b]
nice. I was one of those 6'+ guys in front of you
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Originally posted by MET:
Last night's show was ridiculously oversold. 9:30 is just as shady as any other concert promoter.
that's what you get at a SOLD OUT show. that's how it is always
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This is definitely one of the more interesting threads i have read on this board, wish they were all like this.
I haven't had time to post, but thought I would sneak one in now. I find myself most in agreement with Pollard and Grotty.
My Wilco fave album list goes like this:
1. Being There
2. AM
3. Summerteeth
4 Mermaid Ave 2
5. Mermaid Ave 1
6. YHF
7. AGIB
If I were to list my four Uncle Tupeolo cd's in that list, they would all be near the top, and Anodyne would be #1.
While y'all may say that my comments are willfully contrary or lacking in understanding of certain genres , let me say that Sonic Youth was one of my favorite bands from 1987 through 1992. I still have my cassette copies of Sister, Daydream Nation, Goo, and Dirty, as well as my Goo concert-shirt to prove it. Any of y'all remember SY's alter ego, Ciccone Youth? By contrast, my alt-country collection from the late 80's consisted entirely of a couple of Steve Earle albums.
But see, my tastes have changed and evolved. I'm not listening to the same dissonant music that i was 15 years ago. Now I'm much more inclined to listen to melodious alt-country, power pop, or indie pop. On the rare occasion that I would want to hear some dissonant music, Id be much more inclined to nostalgically listen to Sonic Youth than to Wilco's pale version. So I think it's more a function of current taste than willful contrariness or lack of understanding of genre or lack of desire to grow with a band.
And as far as seeing Wilco, I think I have y'all beat. I saw them on the AM tour at the old 9:30 Club in 1995. And again on Halloween Night in 1996, two days after the release of Being There, when they shared headlining duties with the Squirrel Nut Zippers in Raleigh, NC. That show, my favorite, was made even more memorable by the fact that all band members other than Tweedy did the entire show dressed in drag. Wasn't the prettiest sight, but was the funniest...
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I'm disappointed to hear that the Cardigans are trying to make a comeback. I was really hoping to never hear from them again. I suffered through a set by the Cardigans to see Beck in 1997 at the Patriot Center. That was painful.
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1st of two stories on Wilco, Billy Bragg and the making of Mermaid Avenue
Creating a Woody Guthrie soundtrack
By Greg Kot
Tribune music critic
Published June 15, 2004
This week, Broadway Books is publishing Tribune music critic Greg Kot's "Wilco: Learning How To Die," which traces the Chicago-based rock band's history, including its record-company battles over the CD "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot."
This is the first of two excerpts from the book, examining the period when the band collaborated with Billy Bragg on two CDs using the lyrics of folk music legend Woody Guthrie.
- - -
Billy Bragg first approached Jeff Tweedy and Jay Bennett about having Wilco collaborate with him on an album of Woody Guthrie's lyrics the fall of '96. Tweedy was noncommittal, but Bennett was eager. He idolized the Brit folkie, to the point of naming his old band Titanic Love Affair after a Bragg lyric. "I thought we would've been idiots not to do it," Bennett says.
Tweedy shrugged. "I didn't go into it a huge Billy Bragg fan. I didn't think Wilco in a million years would've backed up Billy Bragg on a record, shared a record with him even. I felt like our approaches to music wouldn't work together."
Bragg was used to having things his way, as well. But he loved Wilco's 1996 album, "Being There," for its varied musical attack. In his mind, elevated Wilco above the rest of the more one-dimensional alternative-country bands emerging in America. "With a lot of American 'roots' bands, it doesn't go back much beyond the 1950s," he says, "but Wilco gives you the feeling that they go back to the '30s and even into the last century."
He figured he could entice them by proposing Dublin as a neutral site between London and Chicago to record the album. But for Tweedy, the issue was less about geography and more about content: What lyrics would be molded into songs and who would choose them?
"It wasn't that appealing until it was made clear to me that we could go through the archives ourselves and pick out songs. I never would dismiss Woody Guthrie, because he's such a huge part of my musical life, but I definitely went into with the idea that the stereotype that had been projected on him was not that appealing to me anymore. The Left-leaning hobo stereotype of Woody stood in contrast to what I hoped would be true: that Woody never would have marginalized himself like that. He would have preferred reach a broad section of society than be pack-aged and sold to a tightly knit group of initiated people. I suspected there was this other Guthrie there, from stuff I'd read about him, but I didn't know for sure until I saw the archive."
There Tweedy and Bennett surprised even Guthrie's daughter Nora with some of the lyrics to which they gravitated. " 'California Stars' didn't strike me as one of my father's great songs," she says. "It's not a song I would have picked out. It didn't strike me until I heard the music with it, and that was a good lesson for me. Jeff has an incredible musical way of bringing out the meaning of a lyric. He went way beyond what I thought was possible."
"After seeing some of those songs, my take on him was that he's more alive than ever," Tweedy says. "And that it would be a disservice to him to keep hammering home certain aspects of his social concerns, or whatever politics he had, as opposed to affirming the idiosyncrasies that made him a major American artist. I'm not into Woody the icon. I'm into Woody the freak weirdo."
In contrast, Bragg embraced Guthrie's politics. He insisted that the pro-union "I Guess I Planted" and the Mussolini-bashing "All You Fascists" be recorded, while Tweedy rolled his eyes.
Despite the head-butting, the music flowed when Wilco and Bragg first convened Dec. 12-18, 1997, at King Size studio in Chicago, as a warm-up for the Dublin session in mid-January. These two sessions would yield most of the songs that would appear on "Mermaid Avenue" I and II, released in 1998 and 2000, respectively. The musicians huddled around copies of Guthrie's handwritten lyrics spread on the floor, instruments in their laps. "It was a bit like going to the dressing-up trunk as kids and seeing who we wanted to be that day," Bragg says.
Bennett banged out the three chords for "California Stars" in his girlfriend's kitchen so quickly he was sure he'd lifted them off Springsteen's "Nebraska" or some other cherished album. When Tweedy heard the demo, he did some tweaking; he accelerated the tempo and took the melody up an octave. In the studio, Wilco knocked out the finished version in two takes.
"Hoodoo Voodoo" -- a nonsensical children's song that sounds like it could've been a precursor for both Dr. Seuss' "The Cat in the Hat" and Dylan's "Subterranean Homesick Blues" -- was transformed when bassist John Stirratt and drummer Ken Coomer began exaggerating the groove, goofing on its herky-jerky possibilities. Tweedy jumped on the microphone while Bennett rocked the organ and Bragg joined in on electric guitar, and a song that had been dead in the water suddenly sailed.
The crowning moment -- not just of the Guthrie sessions at King Size, but of this incarnation of Wilco -- arrived on the final day, after Bragg had already flown back to London for the holidays. "One by One" emerged like a mirage, Bob Egan's pedal-steel purring alongside Bennett's piano, while Stirratt's bass danced slowly with Coomer's mesmerizing drums. Subdued and jazzy, Coomer evoked the great Tennessee session drummer Kenney Buttrey, who played with Bob Dylan on "Nashville Skyline." Tweedy sounded like he was singing with his chin on Guthrie's stooped shoulder, his tone unhurried and confiding as night closed in. The song didn't build. Instead it receded like a wave retreating from the shore, until two-thirds of the way in, it was just barely a whisper of foam: "One by one the days are slipping up behind you." Guthrie's lyric is from the perspective of a man much older than his 27 years at the time. Tweedy was only a few months past his 30th birthday when he stepped to the microphone on that December evening.
"I tried to match Jeff's vocal, to really listen to it as I was playing," Bob Egan says. "I thought it was an original, that it was autobiographical, because Jeff sang it with such conviction. Afterward, I'm saying, `Dude, I'm sorry, I didn't know that was going on in your life.' And he says, `That was written by Woody Guthrie in 1939.'"
It was to be the final Wilco song Egan would play on. He had dropped into the Chicago sessions on the last day, invited as an afterthought, not even aware that the band was working on an album of Guthrie songs. On tour, his over-amplified pedal-steel playing had become an irritant to the other band members; it got so bad that roadie Jonathan Parker was instructed to sabotage Egan's volume knob, so that he couldn't crank it up. Tweedy would occasionally introduce him on stage with zingers that were less than good-natured: "This is Bob Egan. He used to be in Wilco." The other band members were rankled that Egan was making $1,350 a week to their $800; he'd negotiated a higher salary because he had left his Chicago music store behind. When the tour ended, hints were dropped that his services were no longer required, but no one bothered to come out and say it directly. Then Wilco manager Tony Margherita bought him a plane ticket to Dublin in January. There he was greeted by Wilco's leader at the door of the condo where the band was staying.
Egan was crestfallen by his greeting, such as it was. "The first thing he says to me is, `I don't know why you're here. There is nothing for you to play on. The record's done.' I was like, `Oh, thanks. How are ya?' So I hung out in the studio with my game face on, and I think Billy felt sorry for me and asked me to play on a couple of his things. The whole experience was one of the harder things I've ever had to do musically."
Ironically, Egan ended up in Bragg's touring band that summer, playing many of the "Mermaid Avenue" songs that Wilco had performed in the studio. He also served at least one other role in Dublin: as a drinking buddy for Wilco's bass player. Stirratt and Bennett had been inseparable during the "Being There" tour, egging each other on to greater heights of inebriation and onstage frivolity. But Bennett had three root-canal procedures and had his wisdom teeth pulled while in Chicago, and was forced to swear off the booze. He didn't pick up another drink for four years. "I'm so glad Bob came over because I had someone to drink with," Stirratt says with a laugh. "Everyone else was into prescription drugs." As Bennett adjusted to alcohol-free life, Tweedy's migraines were becoming a daily impediment to emotional clarity. A daily diet of pain killers, anti-depressants and homesickness clouded Dublin.
"I look back on that now and I'm really surprised I hung with it all," Stirratt says. "Jeff looked exhausted and Jay wasn't much better off; they had their arms around each other on the plane over to Dublin. They were bonding over their misery. That was the start of the real weirdness in the band, a breaking point."
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Wednesday: A sublime collaboration ends in trans-Atlantic screaming matches.
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second excerpt from Wilco book
Who's the boss?
When Tweedy, Bragg fought to control Guthrie soundtrack
Greg Kot, Tribune music critic
Published June 16, 2004
The arrival of Woody Guthrie's daughter Nora during the third week of the "Mermaid Avenue" sessions brightened Dublin for everyone, and was the catalyst for one last moment of spontaneous beauty. She had brought additional songs from her late father's archive, including one called "Another Man's Done Gone." It consists of 11 lines, every one precious. They're the words of a dying man clinging to his last hope for immortality: "I don't know, I may go down or up or anywhere/But I feel like this scribbling might stay."
Billy Bragg shaped three chords on guitar, and showed them to Jay Bennett, who was tinkering on a grand piano. When Bennett went to work in earnest on the 88's, the chords expanded, and the skeleton of a song emerged. Jeff Tweedy was napping on a couch behind a drawn curtain, and arose bleary eyed but curious. Standing at the piano, he briefly studied the lyrics and began singing. Out of his lips came a sound as forlorn as Richard Manuel's ghost, a distant echo of the Band's "Unfaithful Servant." In 90 seconds the song drifted into the room and then vanished, with only silence and tears to mark its passage. Nora Guthrie's eyes glimmered as Jeff Tweedy sang her father's words through her headphones. Engineer Jerry Boys, a veteran of recording sessions since the Beatles, dropped his head. Bragg felt the hairs on the back of his neck rise.
"Tweedy sang it," Jonathan Parker says, "and brought grown men to tears."
Billy Bragg felt it too. "It was a moment, and then it was done. A true collaboration. Nora found the lyrics, I had written the music, Jay played it, and Jeff sang it in a way that was beyond personal. It's a song of despair, a man facing death wondering if anyone will remember him if he's gone. And that performance was the four of us sending a clear message out to Woody that his scribbling was immortal."
But for Bennett, the performance brings back sour memories. "Billy had the chords to James Taylor's `Fire and Rain.' Real simple chords. I said, `Hey, Bill, this might be cooler with something other than D, G, C. So I threw some Burt Bacharach five-note, compound chords in there, B-minor 7 with F-sharp on the bottom. Made it prettier, basically. The song was getting too high for him to sing comfortably. So Jeff came out and sang it. Billy got us about one-third of the way there, I wrote the chords, and Jeff came up with the vocal melody. But when the album came out, it was credited only to Billy."
Even more significant differences developed over how Bragg and Wilco wanted the album mixed.
"I enjoyed working with Billy," Tweedy insists. "He had a good sense of humor, the ability to laugh at himself. And at the same time, I was always suspect of him, as being somewhat full of [expletive]. I never did understand why we were recording songs about brown-shirted fascists clobbering people in the streets of Italy during the '30s. He could get really angry if we pushed the wrong buttons, and Wilco as a whole was pretty adept at pushing those buttons. For Jay, it was an atrocity that some of Billy's mixes would make the record. Instead of balancing instruments and allowing it to be an environment where it sounds like a singer and a band, his was very much a vocal solo mix, with a very far way, easily palatable band. So squishy and soft and perfect. To me, the recordings we did for Volume 1 were very raw, almost crappy sounding. Whereas his didn't sound crappy, they sounded chintzy. This faux glitz was on them, and to us that was antithetical to the idea behind the record."
Bennett insisted that Wilco have a crack at mixing Bragg's songs. Tweedy placed a trans-Atlantic call to London. Bragg heard Tweedy out, and then offered a succinct response: "You make your record, and I'll make mine, [expletive]."
"That's the point, Billy. It's not your record," Tweedy said. "It's not our record. It's Woody Guthrie's record. All I'm saying is if we had a different set of ears on the record it would sound more coherent."
Bragg backed down, and sent copies of his masters to Chicago. Bennett remixed them, but Bragg decided to stick with his mixes instead.
"I like to be there for the mixing and everything else," Bragg says. "I don't want to hand it off to someone else. I hate that. I think neither one of us were used to working in a situation where we surrendered any control. So it did lead to a bit of sulking, trans-Atlantic sulking on everyone's part, but not to the extent where we fell out completely. They could have easily said, `Let's just leave it at that, because we can't start working with you anymore you big-nose bastard, you're so rotten to us.' They would have been quite within their rights to say something along those lines, but instead they agreed to do another album."
"Mermaid Avenue" would go on to sell 277,000 copies -- outselling all of Bragg's previous albums combined in North America, and nearly equaling Wilco's sales for its acclaimed 1996 album, "Being There." It also earned a Grammy nomination for best contemporary folk album, losing out to Lucinda Williams' "Car Wheels on a Gravel Road." (The band was quickly reminded it didn't belong at the glitzy Los Angeles ceremony for the Grammys when Tweedy stood in the aisle with a handful of programs while he waited for his bandmates, and Sean "Puffy" Combs mistook him for an usher.) The reviews were the best of either artist's career. Even longtime Uncle Tupelo and Wilco skeptics were won over: "This time you got it right," Greil Marcus raved in a four-star Rolling Stone review. "While the words are wonderful and unexpected ... it's the music, especially Wilco's music, that transfigures the enterprise," Robert Christgau declared in the Village Voice, where the self-appointed dean of American rock critics handed out a rare "A."
But Wilco and Bragg could never agree on a tour, and their joint success was short-lived. Quarrels ensued over everything from paying union fees for guest musicians to festival concert commitments, or the lack thereof. Because the two camps couldn't agree on doing anything together to support the album, conflicts cropped up over tour and promotional expenses, since these would count against future royalties that Bragg and Wilco were to share. Bragg's manager, Peter Jenner, and Wilco's, Tony Margherita, tussled daily in trans-Atlantic screaming matches.
"There were three or four months there that every day Tony was throwing his phone," Wilco roadie Jonathan Parker says, "and I thought he was going to have a heart attack. I thought he was going to lose it."
Jeff Tweedy has no regrets about the "Mermaid Avenue" tour that wasn't. "We don't have a killer instinct as a band. We never felt like we had to capitalize on something, to really push it home. The response `Mermaid Avenue' generated was gratifying. It was the most attention Billy had gotten in the press in a long time, especially in the United States, and he was gung-ho, booking mutual shows for us without telling us about it. Then he threatened to sue us when we wouldn't come and play with him, and he had to hire a band. I felt like I was watching a guy shoot himself in the foot. They had it in their heads all along that it was their record, and rightfully so, because Billy was asked to do it first, but they wanted to believe that the success of it had nothing to do with us, that the relationship hadn't evolved at all during the making of it, that we were Billy's backup band. We were in the midst of recording `Summerteeth,' but we were willing to set aside a few weeks to tour with him. It ended up completely backfiring."
Billy Bragg got over it. The artistic accomplishment of the two "Mermaid Avenue" albums, rather than the acrimony that arose in their wake, is how the singer-songwriter prefers to remember the occasion. "That would be my only regret in the entire project. It wasn't really anyone's fault, it's just that I was between albums and they were in the middle of making one, and they were also at the beginning of their career. It was crucial for them to keep focused on what they were doing. So I put a band together with [ex-Wilco pedal steel player] Bob Egan, put `California Stars' in my set, and just got on with it."
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Copyright (copyright) 2004 by Greg Kot, From the book "Wilco: Learning How to Die" by Greg Kot, published by Broadway Books, a division of Random House Inc. Reprinted with permission. Read more at www.wilcobook.com. (http://www.wilcobook.com.)
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Originally posted by brennser:
Bragg was used to having things his way, as well. But he loved Wilco's 1996 album, "Being There," for its varied musical attack. In his mind, elevated Wilco above the rest of the more one-dimensional alternative-country bands emerging in America. "With a lot of American 'roots' bands, it doesn't go back much beyond the 1950s," he says, "but Wilco gives you the feeling that they go back to the '30s and even into the last century."
i suspect there is once less computer monitor in the world right now :D