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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: bellenseb on April 05, 2004, 02:17:00 pm
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Was thinking of getting Satellite Radio now that both of them are carrying Air America.
Any thoughts on which one was better? I'm primarily interested in indie pop and rock, psych, alt-folk and offbeat singer-songwriter type music. I looked at XM's lineup and it seems pretty weak on indie and underground music (only one station, XMU?). Is Sirius any better on this end?
It would be great to have streams of top college radio stations, and great independents like KCRW, WFMU, etc., but neither seem to have this sort of thing.
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You're far better off with XM.
Overall, XM is more focused on music, and Sirius is more focused on sports and talk. XM has not only more music channels, but is programmed much, much deeper. Sirius has a very FM approach to programming, lots of hits, lots of repetition. XM is alot more eclectic and much deeper. It is also less voice tracked and the DJs will take your requests and email with you on occasion.
You will find indie and underground music primarily on XMU, which is an awesome station, but also you might then like Fungus, which is punk/surf/industrial/ska, some of the electronic/dancey stations, and then of course there's a deep classic alternative station (44), regular altenrative (47) which is different than "hard" alternative (48), and alternative hits (54). You might also like the euro-weenie pop station (29).
As for alt-folk and singer-songwriter stuff, the gold standard is really XM 50 (the loft).
Info on xm:
www.xm411.com (http://www.xm411.com)
Info on sirius:
www.siriusbackstage.com (http://www.siriusbackstage.com)
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Cool, thanks for the info. I'll look into XM.
I'm a little wary that "alternative" means what I might hear on stations like WHF these days, though. As opposed to what I might hear on college radio.
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I like all the stations you menioned other than U-Pop....if that's what they're listening to in Europe then god help them! ;)
XMU, Fred, Ethel, Lucy, Fungus, Cafe and Loft are my favourite channels....BBC World service of course is a huge bonus for me. America Left is the new liberal one that I've listened to a couple of times, and have to say, even if I'm not 100% in agreement with all their opinions it's a refreshing change to talk radio from the right wing lunatics like Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, Liddy etc.
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I have to say XMU Ethyl and Lucy are the three stations I listen to most. And i always hear new stuff on all three, but especially XMU. They even play a lot of underground hip-hop. But I always try to keep up on new mainstream stuff too, so top 20 on 20 remains a favorite. And I kinda like soime of the stuff U-pop plays, but some of it is obnoxious. Enough with the Sophie-Ellis Baxter for cryin out loud. And Mel C., she had that one good dance song....enough!
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I'm probably in the minority here, but I'm more than a little disappointed with XM Radio.
It's significantly better than most of what you can get on traditional radio throughout the county, but I guess I just had super high expectations.
I think all of the stations mentioned above are good, yet I'm usually unable to pick one that I can just fix on for an extended period of time & enjoy everything I hear. They will invariably play something than I can not stand to listen to. For instance, I flipped onto channel 47 the other day. I heard a Soundgarden song - was digging it. Then an Afghan Whigs song - was loving it. Then they played Blink 182 & I couldn't change the channel fast enough.
I usually listen to music based on the tone/genre that my mood dictates. XM, for me, can often be like listening to a very haphazardly created mix tape. It's almost as if they still need to have even more choices (stations) so that they can be less eclectic on any one station.
The only time I've really appreciated XM so far is on long roadtrips where there's conversation or I'm just daydreaming. Basically, just having some commercial free tunes on. If I'm in the mood for actively listening - I've found I'm still much better off with my CDs or Ipod.
I also thought it would be a great introduction to tons of new music for me. I've only purchased one record over the past 6 months that I first heard on XM. During that time, I've probably picked up close to 100 total cds. Not a good ratio. I get much more exposure to great new music right here on this board or listening to an internet broadcast like KEXP.
That said - I do have friends that swear by it. I'd classify them as much more casual music lovers though. And I think XM is MUCH better than SIRIUS. Even though SIRIUS has better station names.
Does anyone else feel this way?
Maybe I just have A.D.D.
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Originally posted by grotty:
0For instance, I flipped onto channel 47 the other day. I heard a Soundgarden song - was digging it. Then an Afghan Whigs songs - was loving it. Then they played Blink 182 & I couldn't change the channel fast enough.
That's the whole beauty of XM....if you hear a song you don't like you push the button and baddabing! There's another great song playing, no commercials. I flick channels quite a bit. I can't stand to hear REM, in fact, my ears start to bleed. So when they come on I just push one of my presets and some other great song is on....I usually hit XMU first to hear something new. I heard the Delgados the other day who impressed me.
You can't expect one station to play every single song you like, unless you're the dj.
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
That's the whole beauty of XM....if you hear a song you don't like you push the button and baddabing! There's another great song playing, no commercials. I flick channels quite a bit.
You can't expect one station to play every single song you like, unless you're the dj.
Agreed - I just wish I didn't have to push the button quite so often.
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Originally posted by grotty:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
That's the whole beauty of XM....if you hear a song you don't like you push the button and baddabing! There's another great song playing, no commercials. I flick channels quite a bit.
You can't expect one station to play every single song you like, unless you're the dj.
Agreed - I just wish I didn't have to push the button quite so often. [/b]
I hear you, it's such hard work...
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my experience couldn't be any more different...
pre-xm, i would mostly find new music by downloading/streaming on the internet or attending shows that seemed cool. i usually work at home and listen to music 24/7.
i've had it now for about a year and virtually every CD I've bought since then (a few dozen) were things that I first heard on XM, and which probably haven't been played on HFS or sirius or anywhere else, at least not very much...
these include CDs by bent, baxter, lemon jelly, i am the WTC, royksopp, soliders of jah, scotty...
of course, there have been others that I might have found somewhere else, like the thrills, alot of stuff I *didn't* buy because I heard it on XM and it wasn't worth it, and lots of stuff that I already liked and knew about, but which is nonetheless not reliably heard anywhere else.
then there's the channels of stuff that are fun to listen to once in a while even though i'd be unlikely to ever buy CDs in the genre, like on the rocks (76) or boneyard (41).
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Originally posted by grotty:
I also thought it would be a great introduction to tons of new music for me. I've only purchased one record over the past 6 months that I first heard on XM. During that time, I've probably picked up close to 100 total cds. Not a good ratio. I get much more exposure to great new music right here on this board or listening to an internet broadcast like KEXP.
That said - I do have friends that swear by it. I'd classify them as much more casual music lovers though. And I think XM is MUCH better than SIRIUS. Even though SIRIUS has better station names.
I can't disagree more. I consider myself a very insane music fan (especially when you consider how much of my time is spent "doing" something with music), and I have found a number of new bands to me on XM. Snow Patrol, Plus/Minus, Laguardia, The Swords Project, Los Halos just to name a few. If steaming radio could enter my car, perhaps there would be an issue, but until that happens, they will have to pry my sky-fi receiver from my cold dead hands before I return to real radio.
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
....baddabing!
Mankie's an Andrew Dice Clay fan?
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My self diagnosis has been confirmed - I must have Adult Attention Deficit Disorder. :D
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
....baddabing!
Mankie's an Andrew Dice Clay fan? [/b]
or a wife-cheating, coke snortin', near nephew killin', strip club owning, therapist seeing mobster-type.
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Interesting to read the replies. My main fear is that they aren't idiosynchratic enough and don't really cover the stuff I like (mainly, the less-loud side of the underground - alt-folk, psych, pop, singer-songwriters) with any depth, and that, like a previous poster replied about Blink 182, there's a lack of cohesive stylistic vision on the stations.
When I used to live in Pittsburgh there was a AAA station that was sometimes good and also very frustrating for the same reason. They would play, say, Sugar and the Red House Painters, and then play Sheryl Crow and Sting and Melissa Ethridge for the next hour. No one can expect to hear nothing but songs they like, or the same style of music throughout a show, but it's nice to hear a mix of music that's carefully chosen by someone with taste that's in the same universe as yours.
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Originally posted by bellenseb:
When I used to live in Pittsburgh there was a AAA station that was sometimes good and also very frustrating for the same reason. They would play, say, Sugar and the Red House Painters, and then play Sheryl Crow and Sting and Melissa Ethridge for the next hour.
WYEP eh? Sometimes you do wonder if they've ever heard of the latest innovation - the electric guitar.
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Originally posted by bellenseb:
Interesting to read the replies. My main fear is that they aren't idiosynchratic enough and don't really cover the stuff I like (mainly, the less-loud side of the underground - alt-folk, psych, pop, singer-songwriters) with any depth, and that, like a previous poster replied about Blink 182, there's a lack of cohesive stylistic vision on the stations.
. . . No one can expect to hear nothing but songs they like, or the same style of music throughout a show, but it's nice to hear a mix of music that's carefully chosen by someone with taste that's in the same universe as yours.
You should do great with XMU (43), XM Cafe (45) (the deeper AAA station, as opposed to their poppier AAA station), The Loft (50), maybe folk village (15) though i don't often listen to that one...
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Woxy for work
ipod on shuffle for the car.
Bliss.
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i'm with grotty on this one... don't think xm would hold my interest that long. much prefer to program it myself than be programmed too. which is why emusic is still the better option imho. i can download and keep music anytime i want and then listen to anytime i want. plus kosmette has an ipod so taking loads of stuff isn't an issue.
based on smackies experiences with napster i'd check that out as well, but alas there's no osx support yet.
edit - i also tend to use the time driving in the car to audition new cds, because i'm less distracted in the car than at home..
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Originally posted by J'Mal:
XM Cafe (45) (the deeper AAA station, as opposed to their poppier AAA station), The Loft (50),
These can be very good stations, but back to my original complaint: be prepared for a healthy dose of Sarah McLachlan/Shawn Colvin type tunes sprinkled in there.
You can peruse sample rock category playlists here that should help you decide:
XM programming (http://www.xmradio.com/programming/neighborhood.jsp?hood=rock)
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kosmo, you can only program what you know, and what you've got. XM solves both of those issues.
the ipod clone is just something i use to work out. the XM has really put a huge dent in my CD listening and guided what remains of it (and, by extension, what goes on the mp3 player).
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Originally posted by grotty:
Originally posted by J'Mal:
XM Cafe (45) (the deeper AAA station, as opposed to their poppier AAA station), The Loft (50),
These can be very good stations, but back to my original complaint: be prepared for a healthy dose of Sarah McLachlan/Shawn Colvin type tunes sprinkled in there.
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Agreed, and Fred od's on Depeche Mode sometimes too....but for fear of being repetitive, you can simply flick to another station and not be disappointed....that's if your finger isn't too tired grotty.
My 'only' complaint is whenever I've heard the Pogues on XM it's ALWAYS been "Tuesday morning" which doesn't even have Shane singing for crying out loud!!
All in all, it's the best thing that's happened to music (IMHO) in years.
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Thanks, Grotty. Just checked it out. The Cafe is a nightmare for me - total WYEP, Sting, Santana, Natalie Merchant, safe mainstream adult contemporary fare.
The Loft looks much better - Dylan, Elliott Smith, good quality singer-songwriters.
I was hoping for a station that was sort of a little more eclectic and indie version of the Loft - with a playlist with lots of say, Will Oldham, Pernice Brothers, Volebeats, Dave Pajo, Microphones, Sufjan Stevens, Magnetic Fields, Damien Jurado, Mirah, Mark Eitzel, Mark Kozelek, Mekons, etc, etc, mixed with eclectic classic songwriters like Roky Erikson, Leonard Cohen, Skip Spence, and so forth.
XMU looks decent but seems to broad and fixed on "hot new bands" rather than DJs assembling carefully chosen sets of their most-loved songs, a la college radio.
Originally posted by grotty:
Originally posted by J'Mal:
XM Cafe (45) (the deeper AAA station, as opposed to their poppier AAA station), The Loft (50),
These can be very good stations, but back to my original complaint: be prepared for a healthy dose of Sarah McLachlan/Shawn Colvin type tunes sprinkled in there.
You can peruse sample rock category playlists here that should help you decide:
XM programming (http://www.xmradio.com/programming/neighborhood.jsp?hood=rock) [/b]
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Originally posted by bellenseb:
[QB] Thanks, Grotty. Just checked it out. The Cafe is a nightmare for me - total WYEP, Sting, Santana, Natalie Merchant, safe mainstream adult contemporary fare.
The Loft looks much better - Dylan, Elliott Smith, good quality singer-songwriters.
I was hoping for a station that was sort of a little more eclectic and indie version of the Loft - with a playlist with lots of say, Will Oldham, Pernice Brothers, Volebeats, Dave Pajo, Microphones, Sufjan Stevens, Magnetic Fields, Damien Jurado, Mirah, Mark Eitzel, Mark Kozelek, Mekons, etc, etc, mixed with eclectic classic songwriters like Roky Erikson, Leonard Cohen, Skip Spence, and so forth.
XMU looks decent but seems to broad and fixed on "hot new bands" rather than DJs assembling carefully chosen sets of their most-loved songs, a la college radio.
I think you should probably look into starting your own sattelite station if that's what you want.
"Fine Tuning" has some great stuff too, can't remember the channel number though.
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Originally posted by J'Mal:
kosmo, you can only program what you know, and what you've got. XM solves both of those issues.
the ipod clone is just something i use to work out. the XM has really put a huge dent in my CD listening and guided what remains of it (and, by extension, what goes on the mp3 player).
ok i'm being a snot here... but isn't quite possible that xm isn't for everone? do they have a station that plays 60's soul other than Motown and Stax? 60's Garage? A station like Little Steven's which plays rock music from the 50's onward and dares to mix punk in with the classic rock? sure xm could be useful tool in finding new artists, but so is this forum, reviews, emusic, and cmj new music monthly.
when i'm listening at home I tend to listen to records in their entirity. when i like something i generally like all the tracks. those people who claim records only have one or two good tracks are buying the wrong product, because either i dig or loathe the whole record..
and i heard one of the xm 80's stations while shopping at a record and tape traders recently, and it had this obnoxious dj yakking between songs..
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Originally posted by bellenseb:
I was hoping for a station that was sort of a little more eclectic and indie version of the Loft - with a playlist with lots of say, Will Oldham, Pernice Brothers, Volebeats, Dave Pajo, Microphones, Sufjan Stevens, Magnetic Fields, Damien Jurado, Mirah, Mark Eitzel, Mark Kozelek, Mekons, etc, etc, mixed with eclectic classic songwriters like Roky Erikson, Leonard Cohen, Skip Spence, and so forth.
Exactly! This is a great example of the type of station that I would like to see them have. I have NO problem with any of the music they play. It's the segmentation. Put all the Sarah McLachlan types on one station. All of the Blink 182's on another.
You called it "a lack of cohesive stylistic vision on the stations" above. I think that's right on. I just think that their genre classifications are still too broad. An amazing complaint considering that they have ~ 200 stations.
Hopefully they'll morph into that stylistic cohesiveness as they continue to grow.
Maybe I'm just being a snot too Kosmo. :p
I think I'll go listen to a couple of mix cds...
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Agreed. I just threw those bands out as examples, but a more general way of putting it might be "bands that might get booked at the Black Cat and/or Iota, and their influences". Maybe this is too narrow for XM's target audience.
Again, if they had a feeds for great independent stations, like KCRW or WFMU, they wouldn't even have to program anything.
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And I think Kosmo is also hitting on the fact that there are many different types of music listeners.
Some people just like good songs. They don't care about the relationship between the songs.
Others prefer a more organized approach - entire records, similar 'tones' etc.
Nothing wrong with either of these. But XM is definitely utilizing the good songs approach: 'if you like this one, try this one.'
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Also, some of their stations do seem to be pretty focused. Their "Village" zeroes in on the 60s Greenwich Village folk scene like a laser beam.
I wouldn't necessarily want hyper-specific stations, but would want a cohesive vision.
Little Steven's Sunday Night show is an awesome example of a great eclectic mix that has that vision and cohesiveness. It's so fun much to listen to because he's obviously playing songs he loves, smartly sequenced, many of which haven't been heard for decades.
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Originally posted by bellenseb:
"bands that might get booked at the Black Cat and/or Iota, and their influences".
Woxy does a reasonable job at this.
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it's nice that on XMU'S electronic show, for example, they'll usually play blocks from a certain artist/CD, like a whole mess of mark farina or izdatso... when elliott smith died, the loft became the elliott smith station for a while...
As for "this forum, reviews, emusic, and cmj new music," I dunno, I prefer to try new music by hearing it, and by hearing things I might not think to pick out myself, rather than read other people's opinions about the music and then have to go through the hassle of downloading it.
i'm really psyched for the pinback show at the cat next week. if i spent all my time reading CMJ, maybe I would have discovered them anyway. but hearing it on XMU was, in this case, as usual, more effective.
is it for everyone? well, if you're super-picky and you need a station that just plays exactly what you already know and want to hear right now, then no. you also don't understand the concept of radio.
that, to me, is what is so fascinating about this whole thread. radio has become so completely shitty and worthless that when it's suddenly done right, it's still not a concept that is easily "felt" by those who have largely abandoned it.
the website lists a few artists that represent the station, but believe me, it is alot more than a jukebox that plays stuff at random. it's really all about the programming. those who said, well, they should just stream WFMU and KCRW, hey, those are great stations. Two great stations. XM has far more than two of its own great stations.
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Originally posted by J'Mal:
that, to me, is what is so fascinating about this whole thread. radio has become so completely shitty and worthless that when it's suddenly done right, it's still not a concept that is easily "felt" by those who have largely abandoned it.
Yeah, I think that's the issue here, j'mal. I got hooked on Spinner for a while -- it's genre specific, and the genre's are quite narrow. It's good, but you don't learn much.....
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bags... exactly. i have hundred upon hundreds of CDs. sometimes, none of them jump out at me. it's nice to let someone else spin the tunes, and even hop into a new genre once in a while and hear what someone who is ultra-good at that genre of music is doing.
as for "what's at the black cat and iota and influences," I really think XMU is like the black cat/cheaper 9.30 show station sometimes.
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Originally posted by J'Mal:
it's nice that on XMU'S electronic show, for example, they'll usually play blocks from a certain artist/CD, like a whole mess of mark farina or izdatso... when elliott smith died, the loft became the elliott smith station for a while...
As for "this forum, reviews, emusic, and cmj new music," I dunno, I prefer to try new music by hearing it, and by hearing things I might not think to pick out myself, rather than read other people's opinions about the music and then have to go through the hassle of downloading it.
i'm really psyched for the pinback show at the cat next week. if i spent all my time reading CMJ, maybe I would have discovered them anyway. but hearing it on XMU was, in this case, as usual, more effective.
is it for everyone? well, if you're super-picky and you need a station that just plays exactly what you already know and want to hear right now, then no. you also don't understand the concept of radio.
that, to me, is what is so fascinating about this whole thread. radio has become so completely shitty and worthless that when it's suddenly done right, it's still not a concept that is easily "felt" by those who have largely abandoned it.
the website lists a few artists that represent the station, but believe me, it is alot more than a jukebox that plays stuff at random. it's really all about the programming. those who said, well, they should just stream WFMU and KCRW, hey, those are great stations. Two great stations. XM has far more than two of its own great stations.
Well said!
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Originally posted by bellenseb:
[QB] Was thinking of getting Satellite Radio now that both of them are carrying Air America.
Any thoughts on which one was better? I'm primarily interested in indie pop and rock, psych, alt-folk and offbeat singer-songwriter type music. I looked at XM's lineup and it seems pretty weak on indie and underground music (only one station, XMU?). Is Sirius any better on this end?
>>>>>>I would have to say XM is the better on the music side.....Also like to warn you of Air America airing on both networks.......that doesn't look like the case.........Sirius airs a channel called "America Left".......It IS NOT Air America....Air America is exclusive to XM.....check the Air America website......that being said.......XM's decision to air only an hour of Randi Rhodes's afternoon/evening drive show will not get me running to the store to install XM........she is the only experienced talker that they have and it shows.....the woman is a pitbull and doesn't back down....her phone call with Nader was classic!........I'll keep it going for free on the stream....
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XM for me
On The Rocks (lounge music) channel is great
Sports channels are great coming home from a football game if one were to have wagering interests in the outcomes of such affairs
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I just read (can't find the link now!) that they've secured a deal with Sirius Radio too. This will be in addition to their "talk left" station.
That's awful that XM only airs an hour of Randy Rhodes! What do they air instead the other 2 hours?
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XM Left picks up the Air America programming, so if Air America is only picking up an hour of Randi Rhodes (she was awesome with Ozzy!!), then that's what you get. here's the daily schedule:
http://www.xmradio.com/programming/channel_page.jsp?ch=167 (http://www.xmradio.com/programming/channel_page.jsp?ch=167)
it does look like they play 4 hours of rhodes on saturdays, noon-4, best of:
http://www.xmradio.com/pdf/america_left_grid.pdf (http://www.xmradio.com/pdf/america_left_grid.pdf)
it's unclear what sirius is going to do with their talk left now that they're going to carry air america. there is some overlap there (schultz and colmes), and it also leaves them with 2 lefts and 1 right (and 1 "middle"). if they pick up her second hour and that's worth having ultra-repetitive hits-based programming on the music channels, that's yer trade off....
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Randy Rhodes' show is 4 hours (see www.airamericaradio.com). (http://www.airamericaradio.com).)
It looks like XM is running Schultz over Air America's Rhodes feed.
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I am in agreement with anyone dissapointed with XM. I got it and after the novelty wore off, the programming became very tiresome. Only XMU is of value on the entire lineup if you ask me. Everything else is just too gimmicky or too much like FM (20 songs in heavy rotation). They are in it to make money and they aim to please the lowest common denominator. Real music fans need not apply. Oh, No DJs which in my opinion sucks. The human element of a good DJ with a good catalog, imagination and desire to seek out new artists blows away a computer picking the top tracks some program director thinks will appeal to the masses (oh, and watch out for weird insertions of top popular hit songs in a lot of the formats where they dont seem to belong). After a full year of empty promisses and email replies from their program directors, nothing ever changed. FM is free and you will get no better on XM. I did not renew my subscription and have no plans to do so. I actually heard Sirius had better programming, but to me, its the DJs that make the difference (the live person making song selections on the fly, not the cheesy jibberish). At least FM still offers that on most stations and for free. If you have a stereo that plays MP3s, I bet you could make your own programmed set of songs that beats out XM any day, esp if you actually like music. Ok, time to step off my soap box.
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don't know what you were listening to...
first, FM is not free. you pay for it with your time listening to commercials and contests and idiotic promotions.
the notion that satellite radio is anything like FM is ridiculous. XM has seven, arguably eight (if you count the 40s channel), full time jazz stations programming to different jazz niches. There probably aren't seven full-format jazz stations of any kind in the entire country!
Same for the rest of the lineup. Of the 68 music channels, there aren't more than five or six that duplicate common FM formats.
Sounds like it isn't for you because XM can't read your mind. Radio is designed to offer music for your consideration -- some of which you know and like, some of which you don't know and might like, and some of which you don't know and don't want to know. It's not SUPPOSED to be the same experience as you selecting music you already have.
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We've got Sirius in our house and in the car. I'm not going to argue on the point that XM may have more varied music programming or stuff that is more up your alley.
But for variety of programming, I'll take Sirius anyday over XM. I admit to listening to alot of news programs and am a bit of an NPR junkie. Sirius has at least four public radio related streams. We're also heavily into hockey and Sirius carries the NHL broadcasts, which is great for us.
So...not arguing that XM may be better for some, but I think that if you're into news/talk programming, and you've got a left wing bent, then Sirius is the way to go. We've had it since January and love it.
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Originally posted by picklehead Jones:
Real music fans need not apply. Oh, No DJs which in my opinion sucks.
A 'real music fan' as you put it, shouldn't give a rats about a dj, because they're all about the music.
If you think fm is just as good as xm you should remove the earplugs you obviously still have in after the last Blink 182 concert you attended.
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No one wants a DJ droning on endlessly about nothing, but a good DJ gives a show or station personality, picks good sequences of songs and talk about them, talks up new artists, etc. No 'real music fan' listens to music in a total information vacuum.
Based on what I've read, XM stations seem to lack some degree of passion and personality. Of course you have xxx number of stations, but there's a clear dearth of the last 20 years of indie rock, since XMU apparently plays only songs from the last 18 months. I'd love to see 1 or 2 passionate music geek-like channels, with playlist advisement or shows from Big Takeover, No Depression, Pitchfork, Magnet, etc., coverage of the best of indie and underground folk, rock, country and pop of all time mixed with some of the best new stuff, speciality shows like "forgotten songwriter showcase" and the like. Until something at least a little like this happens I'll stick to mp3s.
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Originally posted by bellenseb:
No one wants a DJ droning on endlessly about nothing, but a good DJ gives a show or station personality, picks good sequences of songs and talk about them, talks up new artists, etc. No 'real music fan' listens to music in a total information vacuum.
Based on what I've read, XM stations seem to lack some degree of passion and personality. Of course you have xxx number of stations, but there's a clear dearth of the last 20 years of indie rock, since XMU apparently plays only songs from the last 18 months. I'd love to see 1 or 2 passionate music geek-like channels, with playlist advisement or shows from Big Takeover, No Depression, Pitchfork, Magnet, etc., coverage of the best of indie and underground folk, rock, country and pop of all time mixed with some of the best new stuff, speciality shows like "forgotten songwriter showcase" and the like. Until something at least a little like this happens I'll stick to mp3s.
Unfortunately, DJs like that don't exist anymore. The exceptions being college stations and WRNR, which has a signal that broadcasts about 20 feet.
I doubt your dream station will ever exist. You want too much from every genre. You'd end up with a station that appeals to nobody but you. That's a great thought, but not very realistic.
I've only had XM for a month and I love it. But I'm also realistic about what to expect from any kind of radio. I know that even XM isn't going to come up with a station that's gonna play Husker Du, The Grateful Dead and James Brown all in the block. However, I'm never surprised to hear any of these guys at any given time on the appropriate channels. That's more than I can say for anything on regular FM radio these days.
It's not perfect, but it's the best thing out there. And definitely worth $10/month.
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It used to surprise me how die hard fanatics about a product (yes, you are defending a commercial product) seem to loose all sense of objectivity and the ability to think for themselves but I have long since given up on such lost souls and fellow lowest common denominator consumers out there. Yes, for all of you XM fans out there, wohooo, and to hell with DJs and any human element to the experience. Lets let a few corporate sponsors keep programming everything we hear and see, that sounds lovely.
Just because there are no longer many stations that allow good DJs to present the public with good music and information regarding such music is no reason to throw in the towel like some brainwashed drone looking for someone to tell them what to like and listen to. We are very close to losing any control left from the musicians and artists and fans over what the public sees and hears. Its corporate greed and the idiots that prefer machine chosen formats that are fueling this nightmare. This is why there is so much blink182 as someone has so not so eloquently brought to light. You want more Britney and Justin? You got it, its on its way.
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Fair enough. What currently available radio options do you recommend? Your iPod doesn't count, unless you have a means of allowing several million people to access it.
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I don't know where you get this "xm has no dj's" thing.
XM doesn't have DJs on all the channels on the air at all times, but where they are, they add exactly the kind of insight and personality and information about the music that one could hope for.
This is particularly true of XMU (tobi), Fred (stabwalt, teegan, bachman), the loft (mike marrone), and XM Cafe (their names escape me right now). It's also true of other XM channels to which I listen much less (most if not all the decades channels, for example, are fully DJ'd). And if you send them emails or call them, they're completely accessible.
"commercial product." well, what isn't? what CDs do you own that were given to you free by the socialist collective? what bands do you like perform freely all the time and not charge you in some way shape or form for the music? When Bill Gates decides to become a musician and give it all away for free, great. Until then, I'm gonna keep buying CDs, concert tix, and my XM subscription.
Bellensab, all I can tell you is, XM is a whole lot closer to being what you describe than you think, if it isn't all that and more. it is highly doubtful that any of the posters here who love their XM would speak as glowingly about FM radio. if you haven't tried it, you can't really knock it.
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I hear you, Skeeter. No one can expect a station that plays only songs they like from across genres. And certainly XM must be better than FM.
But mainly what I was saying was that there's virtually no indie rock/pop/folk from the last 20 years on XM, except the last 18 months. And that I'd like to see it, programmed intelligently, with a fair amount of diversity. I think that would appeal to plenty of people.
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Has J'Mal ever denied that he works for XM (or an affiliate)?
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I'll deny it right now.
I am not employed by XM or any kind of affiliate.
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But you do work at the 7-11, correct?
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Originally posted by J'Mal:
I'll deny it right now.
I am not employed by XM or any kind of affiliate.
Do you work for any of XM's creditors?
How many shares do you own?
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Picklehead Jones.....I don't think anyone is 100% disagreeing with you, well I'm not anyway. I just laughed at your "XM is just like FM" comment.
I'll be the first to admit I was a total skeptic regarding XM, and would never have got it had my wife not got it me as a christmas present.
I think what you are looking for, which is impossible, is all YOUR favorite songs/artists on the same channel. That would be great for each and everyone of us, but to achieve that we'd all have to get a dj to come to our homes and spin from our own personal music collection. What I love about xm is if I'm listening to a station and a song comes on I don't like, I simply jump to a different channel and there's a very good chance there'll be a song playing I do like. What there won't be is a pretentious dj rambling on or better yet, commercials for 10 straight minutes.
Is xm perfect? No. It is the best thing out there though.
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What makes XM any better than KEXP, WNCW, KCRW, WXPN, WFMU, WFUV, or any other stations that I listen to on the web? The fact that you have to pay for it?
Is XM something that you get in your car? I guess the fact that I only drive one or two days a week would make it useless to me.
Paying for radio? I can't believe people let this happen. Someday, you'll have to pay for the air you breathe. :roll:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Picklehead Jones.....I don't think anyone is 100% disagreeing with you, well I'm not anyway. I just laughed at your "XM is just like FM" comment.
I'll be the first to admit I was a total skeptic regarding XM, and would never have got it had my wife not got it me as a christmas present.
I think what you are looking for, which is impossible, is all YOUR favorite songs/artists on the same channel. That would be great for each and everyone of us, but to achieve that we'd all have to get a dj to come to our homes and spin from our own personal music collection. What I love about xm is if I'm listening to a station and a song comes on I don't like, I simply jump to a different channel and there's a very good chance there'll be a song playing I do like. What there won't be is a pretentious dj rambling on or better yet, commercials for 10 straight minutes.
Is xm perfect? No. It is the best thing out there though.
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I don't work for XM's creditors.
I am self employed and my business has nothing to do with XM or anything remotely related to XM.
I've previously disclosed on a different thread that I own shares, the exact number is obviously none of your business. let's just say 3 things on the topic:
1. whether anyone here gets it or not will not determine whether I eat cat food in my dotage. really!
2. I own shares in all kinds of things that I don't recommend.
3. i've been posting on this board since waaaaay before I got into XM. it should be obvious that, just like the other posters who've written positively about XM, I am someone who is deeply interested in music. do you doubt that? do you suggest there is something illegitimate in owning shares of a company whose product I enjoy?
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Originally posted by sonickballs2:
[QB]
Paying for radio? I can't believe people let this happen.
I'm sure that was said about TV one time.
By the way, is your internet connection free?
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;) Well I'm sure it comes out of my paycheck in tax dollars, just as it comes out of your paycheck. Thanks for the great music.
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by sonickballs2:
[QB]
Paying for radio? I can't believe people let this happen.
I'm sure that was said about TV one time.
By the way, is your internet connection free? [/b]
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Originally posted by J'Mal:
3. i've been posting on this board since waaaaay before I got into XM. it should be obvious that, just like the other posters who've written positively about XM, I am someone who is deeply interested in music. do you doubt that? do you suggest there is something illegitimate in owning shares of a company whose product I enjoy?
You just know a lot on the topic and sell it very well -- so well that it has often made me wonder if there was more to your relationship with XM other than as a music fan.
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That's not always a wise move. My dad's one venture into the stock market was investing in a women's underwear company. He ended up losing his shirt in the deal...
Originally posted by J'Mal:
do you suggest there is something illegitimate in owning shares of a company whose product I enjoy?
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Originally posted by sonickballs2:
;) Well I'm sure it comes out of my paycheck in tax dollars, just as it comes out of your paycheck. Thanks for the great music.
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by sonickballs2:
[QB]
Paying for radio? I can't believe people let this happen.
I'm sure that was said about TV one time.
By the way, is your internet connection free? [/b]
[/b]
So internet radio isn't free then?
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Originally posted by J'Mal:
Radio is designed to offer music for your consideration -- some of which you know and like, some of which you don't know and might like, and some of which you don't know and don't want to know.
Thanks for the lesson in "understanding radio" ;)
However...Doesn't ALL radio meet those requirements listed above? Even WHFS, which you surprisingly listed as a comparative reference, meets your definition above. Using that criteria, shouldn't you only then need one station? Eventually you'd like something they played.
If that's all I wanted from radio I sure wouldn't be shelling out $$ to hear it.
I think you're missing the entire point.
The whole idea behind XM is diversity - The ability to pick a station that very closely matches your listening preferences & tastes. (That's why there are ~ 200 hundred stations.) Unfortunately - I can't seem to find one.
I know for sure that I did not subscibe to XM so that I could routinely hear songs that I "don't want to know."
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Originally posted by sonickballs2:
What makes XM any better than KEXP, WNCW, KCRW, WXPN, WFMU, WFUV, or any other stations that I listen to on the web? The fact that you have to pay for it?
Is XM something that you get in your car? I guess the fact that I only drive one or two days a week would make it useless to me.
Paying for radio? I can't believe people let this happen. Someday, you'll have to pay for the air you breathe. :roll:
Wow, someday you might even pay for TV?!?!?! That's just how crazy it may get.....
For me, if I get XM. it will largely be a car issue. If I could listen to any of the stations you listed in my car, I would. And with my dial-up connection from home, that doesn't work well either. So 'free internet radio' would cost me $50/month. No thanks.
Don't you think your move to the 'burbs is going to mean a lot more time in the car? I can hear you saying "no, I'll walk to the metro stop 80% of the time I go anywhere" but I bet you home ownership brings a greater reliance on your car...
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(That's why there are ~ 200 hundred stations.) Unfortunately - I can't seem to find one.
I know for sure that I did not subscibe to XM so that I could routinely hear songs that I "don't want to know."
Well, you're a tough customer. Some kids hate all 31 flavors, too. Some people never find true love. What can I say, it's sad. I hope you find happiness.
Sure the idea is not to routinely hear stuff you don't like. You just have to be open to the idea that not every song will satisfy you. At some point, a station plays nothing you like and then it ain't for you entirely (virtually all FM falls in that category for me, and many other satellite radio subscribers).
I'm just saying its nice to be able to sample stuff I can't easily hear anywhere else, and the fact I don't like it can save me an unpleasant night at the black cat or 9.30 club checking out a band whose press doesn't live up to my taste.
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Originally posted by sonickballs2:
He ended up losing his shirt in the deal...
[/QB][/QUOTE]
Hope he was wearing a manssiere.
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My last couple pts & then I'll be done abusing this horse corpse. :p
I'm really not the kid who hates all 31 flavors. I have approx 2000 cds - that's a LOT of music that I DO like. Should it really be that hard for a finely tuned/programmed radio station to keep me interested to one of their alledgedly esoteric stations for more than a song or 2?
Here are a couple examples from the last weekish that illustrate my main pt (it's not about the songs - they play great songs - it's about the order/sequencing)
Channel 41
I'm flipping through & hear the Drive-by Truckers. I'm thinking - what a cool song - what a cool station for playing it. Naturally I'm hoping for something else good next. What do I get?...White Lion
Channel 50
A classic Bob Dylan tune followed up by a catchy little ditty straight from any light FM playlist - a song by Orleans. You know the band - creator of ABC's theme song "Still the One"
Channel 47
The example initially used:
Soundgarden - Afghan Whigs - then Blink 182?!?!?!
Do these make sense to anyone? It's near blasphemy to me.
How could a knowledgable DJ/music programmer make these decisions? Even if all these songs do fit into the same overall playlist - group them better within a program. Or better - move them to another station. Or best yet - create another station. With 200 station options it shouldn't be that difficult. Create another 50 if necessary.
The only time I've seen this type of programming used 'successfully' is on the big pop stations that play the top 20 songs over & over again regardless of genre - pop - hip hop - american idol - etc.
Give me & my crack team of 930 club boardies a week @ XM & we'll have this shit straightened out! All we'll need are a few more cheesy names for the new stations. I'm thinking about borrowing from Kevin Smith for the Blink 182 flagship station:
Mallrats
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Originally posted by grotty:
Channel 41
I'm flipping through & hear the Drive-by Truckers. I'm thinking - what a cool song - what a cool station for playing it. Naturally I'm hoping for something else good next. What do I get?...White Lion
Well, station 41 is listed as "Boneyard - Stadium Rock and Hairbands". That's the description from xmradio.com. You can't be too surprised to hear White Lion there.
Channel 50
A classic Bob Dylan tune followed up by a catchy little ditty straight from any light FM playlist - a song by Orleans. You know the band - creator of ABC's theme song "Still the One"
Even I can't defend that one. Yikes.
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I think many of you are missing the point. I consider myself an average joe who really likes music. I spend a decent amount of time in my car, I want to hear songs that are not in my CD collection, and I want to hear new bands. I cannot listen to internet radio in my car, I do not want to stick an Ipod on random, I want new music mixed in with stuff I like.
I agree with everything people have said about wanting Djs, having crazy playlists etc. I'm looking at my options, and having the ability to surf through 200 channels to find something to listen to, is better than the alternative (local radio). It just is. Yeah, and you know what, i'm happy to pay my $10 a month for this opportunity. Sure, there are times nothing is on, sadly. But they are a hell of a lot rarer than they were a year ago, when I had to toggle between DC101 and HFS. And if you don't like XM, fine...don't get it, listen to your ipods, never use your car, and shut the fuck up!
I'm just tired of people trying to make me feel stupid for paying for radio. Everyone's situation is different, this option works best for me. I frankly don't care what works best for you. Knock yourself out sport.
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The other day you claimed to be a hipster. Now you claim to be a regular Joe. Can you really be both?
Try WAMU and WPFW. Lots of good free music on the public airways.
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930radio
Channel 33 Gee - "Radical Roots and Rockers", Marley, Tosh, Cliff, Toots, Bad Brains, Minor Threat, Black Flag, etc
Channel 69 LotoBalls - "Please Please give me a Peterbilt". Pernice Brothers, Smiths, Clash, Drive By Truckers, Marah, Norah Jones, etc
Channel 77 Kosmicpop - "Hangings to good for him". Myracle Brah, De Novo Dahl, Stone Roses, St. Etienne, Rockpile, Love, The Easybeast, JJ Barnes, etc
Channel 4 MES "Got yer Britpop right here punk", The Fall, Lambchop, Delgados, Pretty Things, Ash, Ballboy, Postal Service, etc
Channel 42 The Bomb "Stockings, Chocolate Lipstick, and prophylactics", Devo, Devo, Laika and the Cosmonauts, etc.
i need more coffee before continuing...
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First off my intentions in this thread have never been to slag off any one who subscribes to XM. And I'm not knocking people who think it's the ultimate way to hear music both familiar and new. However, it's not for me personally. I work from home so therefore don't spend that much time in the car. I like the flexibility and diversity of subscription based Emusic for downloading and listening to music. When in the car I tend to listen to music for upcoming DJ gigs. Kosmette enjoys listening to her music collection from the ipod on random.
Keep spreading the good word on XM, just realize that there will always be doubters and critics along the way. Have you heard of Myracle Brah, I've been touting them for years....
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Originally posted by ggdoubleballs (tm):
The other day you claimed to be a hipster. Now you claim to be a regular Joe. Can you really be both?
Try WAMU and WPFW. Lots of good free music on the public airways.
I'm buying tickets to he Van Halen concert...any reference to being a hipster I can assure you was made in jest. WAMU is hardly an outpost of indie-rock. I honestly have never heard of WPFW, but public radio=talk radio, and talk radio is the devil.
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KEXP is public radio, WNCW, WFUV, WXPN, WFMU are all public radio. And very little of it is talk radio.
Most of the bluegrass stuff they play on WAMU is on independent labels. Used to be a whole lot more music, and a whole lot less talk...but they have gone downhill...I agree, talk radio sucks.
WPFW plays mostly jazz.
So then, you are a big fan of Scott Weiland's new band as well? :p
Originally posted by redsock:
Originally posted by ggdoubleballs (tm):
The other day you claimed to be a hipster. Now you claim to be a regular Joe. Can you really be both?
Try WAMU and WPFW. Lots of good free music on the public airways.
I'm buying tickets to he Van Halen concert...any reference to being a hipster I can assure you was made in jest. WAMU is hardly an outpost of indie-rock. I honestly have never heard of WPFW, but public radio=talk radio, and talk radio is the devil. [/b]
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Check out the Community Comment segments on weekday mornings around 8:00 or so. It's equal parts sincere concerns and lunacy.
Originally posted by ggdoubleballs (tm):
WPFW plays mostly jazz.
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Originally posted by ggdoubleballs (tm):
KEXP is public radio, WNCW, WFUV, WXPN, WFMU are all public radio. And very little of it is talk radio.
Most of the bluegrass stuff they play on WAMU is on independent labels. Used to be a whole lot more music, and a whole lot less talk...but they have gone downhill...I agree, talk radio sucks.
WPFW plays mostly jazz.
So then, you are a big fan of Scott Weiland's new band as well? :p
Originally posted by redsock:
Originally posted by ggdoubleballs (tm):
The other day you claimed to be a hipster. Now you claim to be a regular Joe. Can you really be both?
Try WAMU and WPFW. Lots of good free music on the public airways.
I'm buying tickets to he Van Halen concert...any reference to being a hipster I can assure you was made in jest. WAMU is hardly an outpost of indie-rock. I honestly have never heard of WPFW, but public radio=talk radio, and talk radio is the devil. [/b]
[/b]
Well, stereotypical public radio=talk radio. I actually like the bluegrass WAMU plays, but I can't listen to it that much or I begin to dislike it. And I generally like my jazz played live, with the exception of rare sunday mornings I am awake. Correct me if i'm wrong though, none of those other public radio stations can be picked up in my car stereo right?
All of this would be easier if we just had a decent college radio station that could be picked up on the radio.
Oh, and Kosmo, wasn't it you who looked into starting an internet radio station?
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Originally posted by redsock:
And I generally like my jazz played live, with the exception of rare sunday mornings I am awake.
nothing personal, but I just found this funny because it made me think of this
http://www.theonion.com/onion3922/five-disc_jazz_anthology.html (http://www.theonion.com/onion3922/five-disc_jazz_anthology.html)
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You are right. The other stations aren't available on your car radio. If you drive a lot (I don't), your local radio choices are pretty limited....bluegrass can be good, but it's better if mixed in with other genres rather than hours at a time.
For the amount of driving we do, our own music suffices.
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Originally posted by pollard:
Originally posted by redsock:
And I generally like my jazz played live, with the exception of rare sunday mornings I am awake.
nothing personal, but I just found this funny because it made me think of this
http://www.theonion.com/onion3922/five-disc_jazz_anthology.html (http://www.theonion.com/onion3922/five-disc_jazz_anthology.html) [/b]
No, that's pretty much me in a nutshell... but i do like listneing to it live.
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Jazz is good sex and romance music. The guy in the article probably never gets laid.
Originally posted by pollard:
Originally posted by redsock:
And I generally like my jazz played live, with the exception of rare sunday mornings I am awake.
nothing personal, but I just found this funny because it made me think of this
http://www.theonion.com/onion3922/five-disc_jazz_anthology.html (http://www.theonion.com/onion3922/five-disc_jazz_anthology.html) [/b]
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Why so testy 'sport'? :D
I don't recall anyone personally critiquing your listening habits in all of this.
Someone asked a question about XM & people are sharing their opinions.
This is a discussion board - not a directive.
And how am I missing the point?
I want to hear songs that are not in my CD collection, and I want to hear new bands.
That's exactly what I want.
White Lion, Orleans & Blink 182 are not what I have in mind though.
I subscribe to XM by-the-way. I just don't think it's the radio panacea that it's advertised to be.
Originally posted by redsock:
I think many of you are missing the point. I consider myself an average joe who really likes music. I spend a decent amount of time in my car, I want to hear songs that are not in my CD collection, and I want to hear new bands. I cannot listen to internet radio in my car, I do not want to stick an Ipod on random, I want new music mixed in with stuff I like.
I agree with everything people have said about wanting Djs, having crazy playlists etc. I'm looking at my options, and having the ability to surf through 200 channels to find something to listen to, is better than the alternative (local radio). It just is. Yeah, and you know what, i'm happy to pay my $10 a month for this opportunity. Sure, there are times nothing is on, sadly. But they are a hell of a lot rarer than they were a year ago, when I had to toggle between DC101 and HFS. And if you don't like XM, fine...don't get it, listen to your ipods, never use your car, and shut the fuck up!
I'm just tired of people trying to make me feel stupid for paying for radio. Everyone's situation is different, this option works best for me. I frankly don't care what works best for you. Knock yourself out sport.
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Where do I sign up?
See...it's not that hard.
Even though I think you placed Norah Jones into LotoBalls to try & catch me!
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
930radio
Channel 33 Gee - "Radical Roots and Rockers", Marley, Tosh, Cliff, Toots, Bad Brains, Minor Threat, Black Flag, etc
Channel 69 LotoBalls - "Please Please give me a Peterbilt". Pernice Brothers, Smiths, Clash, Drive By Truckers, Marah, Norah Jones, etc
Channel 77 Kosmicpop - "Hangings to good for him". Myracle Brah, De Novo Dahl, Stone Roses, St. Etienne, Rockpile, Love, The Easybeast, JJ Barnes, etc
Channel 4 MES "Got yer Britpop right here punk", The Fall, Lambchop, Delgados, Pretty Things, Ash, Ballboy, Postal Service, etc
Channel 42 The Bomb "Stockings, Chocolate Lipstick, and prophylactics", Devo, Devo, Laika and the Cosmonauts, etc.
i need more coffee before continuing...
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most of WPFW is directives of the glorious People's Democratic Republic of Korea extolling the wisdom of the Great Leader Kim Jong Il.
most of WAMU is talk
If you think it's super that WAMU plays bluegrass for two hours on a sunday or whatever the hell they do, well, to people who may want to occasionaly hear bluegrass without reading the bluegrass journal or whatever and then downloading bluegrass to the ipod, those who have XM with a full-time 24/7 bluegrass channel, the WAMU option is really lame.
That goes more than double for the jazz offerings on XM relative to the bursts of jazz on Radio Pyongyang.
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Outside of work, where I listen to the internet, and listening to O's games on the radio, I might listen to radio maybe 10 minutes a week. I don't think I would be getting my moneys worth if I started paying for radio, so I'll stick with WAMU, thanks.
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That's hilarious.
Originally posted by J'Mal:
That goes more than double for the jazz offerings on XM relative to the bursts of jazz on Radio Pyongyang.
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Originally posted by redsock:
I'm just tired of people trying to make me feel stupid for paying for radio. Everyone's situation is different, this option works best for me. I frankly don't care what works best for you. Knock yourself out sport.
You may not want to hear this redsock, but mankie agrees 100% with you. XM has made my commute to work, dare I say it....."pleasurable"...This morning I got Bob Dylan singing Hurricane, then the next song was James Taylor's Mexico.....Hurricane got me into Bob Dylan mode, and I would've really enjoyed another couple of Dylan tracks...but I got James Taylor instead. No biggie...not a big Taylor fan but I was singing along by the first chorus.
If you don't like XM then don't subscribe, but for me $10 per month is a bargain considering I don't have to listen to one more stupid commercial or the same 10 songs looped all fucking day long!
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XMU kinda sucks...it was great when i first got xm radio....but then they started playing all the same songs it seemed like....i tuned in a couple weeks ago, and they were still playing half the same songs (Crappy ones at that) that thtey were playing 2 years ago when i got xm.
my fav station by far is FRED...sure they play some crap on that station too...but they also play really great stuff.
I had high hopes for Fungas...because Fungas was my fav show on FRED....too bad that the station Fungas sucks ass....only seem to play new punk and ska....they say industrial and other music that doesnt get playe don the radio...but i have yet to hear it.
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Anyone else get the survey from XM?
I just filled mine out - they are gonna love me - I pretty much copied my comments from this thread.
Oh yeah - yesterday on Ethel (Ch 47) they played a Radiohead track & followed it with a slowjam by the king of alternative rock - John Mayer.
"Ethel - All of alternative rock music's monster hits" :roll:
Sorry - I'll never bring this up again.