930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: ggw on April 13, 2004, 01:44:00 pm
-
Newspaper Rock Critics Face the Music on Ageism
By Shawn Moynihan
Published: April 12, 2004 12:01 AM EST
NEW YORK "If it's too loud, you're too old," the old rock 'n' roll saying goes â?? but Larry Nager says it wasn't high decibels that got him fired from The Cincinnati Enquirer.
For eight years, until recently, Nager served as the Enquirer's music critic, bringing to the job a thorough knowledge of blues, rock, R&B, and bluegrass, among other genres. He won several awards for his reporting, and created and produced the paper's Pop Music Awards (the Cammys), an annual event that honors/features local musicians and raises thousands of dollars for music scholarships.
Yet the Enquirer fired Nager on Jan. 9, claiming that he was not aggressive enough in his reporting. But he feels there was a different reason. "My 50th birthday was my expiration date," Nager says, claiming his firing was pure ageism on the newspaper's part. "I have a reputation as a good reporter. To say all of a sudden that I can't do this job, is outrageous. ... I was railroaded."
Nager is now suing the Enquirer, saying he was forced out because of his age, his gender and in retaliation for protesting the reassignment of longtime TV/radio critic John Kiesewetter to a suburban news beat. In his lawsuit, Nager asks for his job back, and compensatory/punitive damages.
Asked to respond to Nager's allegations, Enquirer Editor Tom Callinan said he was unable to comment, due to legal reasons.
Time will tell if Nager is reinstated at the Enquirer, but his case raises several questions. For one, at what time should aging newspaper music critics hang it up? And are too many newspapers going overboard in "skewing young" these days?
One critic for a daily paper who spoke with E&P referred to the "ethnic cleansing of senior people" in newspaper arts sections, while another simply said, "We definitely face demographic pressures here."
Down to the minors
"I never for a second thought I would be terminated, I produced in a variety of ways for so many years," Nager says, mentioning a feature he was assigned to write last August about Cincinnati native Nick Lachey and his wife Jessica Simpson. Nager would have you believe he had no problem with covering young pop stars.
The Enquirer, Nager claims, deemed him expendable because he didn't fit the paper's profile of someone who should be reporting on the Britneys and Justins of the music world. Nager accuses the Enquirer â?? and many other newspapers â?? of targeting an 18-34 female demographic, a move he calls "a reaction to the whole MTV-ing of our society ... newspapers are trying belatedly to be 'with it.'"
Another experienced writer who knows a thing or two about being pulled off the music beat after years of service is Joel Selvin, now senior pop music critic for the San Francisco Chronicle.
Selvin received his own professional wake-up call in February of 2002, from new editors assigned to the arts and features department. After more than 30 years writing about music for the Chronicle, Selvin found himself stripped of his music-critic title and reassigned to the position of staff writer. At the time, "I felt it was an attempt to humiliate me and make me want to leave entirely," he says.
Extensive renegotiations with the paper's management â?? the details of which Selvin could not discuss â?? followed before his title was restored. Today, he says, "I'm doing the best work of my career. I'm getting more encouragement than I ever had."
Nager and Selvin's stories echo a similar battle fought by Washington Post pop music critic Richard Harrington, who in August 2000 settled an age-discrimination lawsuit against the newspaper. Harrington, then 53, was demoted in February of 2000 to part-time work when his critic's job with the paper's "Style" section was given to a writer 17 years his junior. Harrington is currently still a music critic with the Post.
Forever ... young?
No one disputes that newspapers today appear bent on gaining younger readers, either in their main products or in their stand-alone spinoffs. But Philadelphia Inquirer music critic Tom Moon, 43, observes that newspapers can "get a little too caught up in target audiences, rather than justifying it on a critical level."
Steve Morse, senior pop music critic for The Boston Globe, agrees there's a concerted effort by newspapers to appeal to "at-risk" readers, an umbrella term for young people weaned on TV and the Internet. There is, he says, "a general concern, if not panic, to entice these kids to read a daily newspaper."
Morse, 55, who has covered the beat for decades, doesn't understand why age is even a question when writing about music. "Movie critics don't go through this type of ageism, so I don't understand why music critics go through it," he says. But "if there does come a time when you think all teen music is bad, or all hip-hop is bad, and you're just sitting there listening to old Hendrix albums, then you should get out."
Jim Derogatis, 39, pop music critic for the Chicago Sun-Times, insists that it's not age, but the "fire in your belly" to get the real story that music critics face: "You could find yourself sitting at Soldier Field in the heat, in the middle of the summer, watching N'Sync and everyone there seems to be having a good time but you ... and you and the one other critic who's there are both sitting there saying, 'Why am I here?'"
Give the people what they want
Although the pop audience continues to slant female these days, most music critics are still male. One exception is Evelyn McDonnell, pop music critic for The Miami Herald, who agrees that when it comes to being a newspaper music critic in 2004, it's not about gender or age: "It's about your enthusiasm for the job."
But when asked if the pressure is on for newspaper music writers these days to cater to a young, female crowd, the 39-year-old McDonnell frankly responds, "Yes. Explicitly. Beyond a doubt. ... I don't mind it at all," she adds. "If you like pop music, you should be interested in what's happening. If not, you shouldn't be doing the job."
John Soeder, 36, pop music critic for The Plain Dealer in Cleveland, concurs. "I always summarize it as, 'Open ears, open mind,'" he says. Being young, Soeder adds, has nothing to do with knowing what a younger audience wants: "I feel really strongly that no age group, no demographic, has the market cornered on 'hip'. You could be a 60-year-old critic and still be more with it than a 25-year-old."
Not every critic agrees that newspapers have young females in their crosshairs. "I don't necessarily think it's true that newspapers are skewing younger in their music coverage," says Neil Strauss, 32, a New York Times music critic who resigned last month (see related story, below). "That said, however, I think that newspapers are paying more attention to their pop culture coverage than they used to," Strauss adds. "There's pressure to be competitive, and not just with other newspapers but also everything from the Billboard charts to television news media, to entertainment magazines."
USA Today Music Critic Steve Jones, 47, believes there's no shame in looking to younger readers. "I think they have to," he says, noting that hip-hop and teen pop are the dominant forces in the music marketplace at the moment. Regardless of your own taste, he adds, critics often "have to deal with the reality that the things that are making news are younger-leaning things."
Hope I die before I get old
While most music critics want to roll with the trends and hang on to their beat indefinitely, and others get reassigned against their will, some aim to quit while they're ahead.
"I know the whole mania to appeal to young people, and it's pretty embarrassing sometimes," says Roger Catlin, who served as The Hartford (Conn.) Courant's music critic from 1988-2002. He then became the paper's TV critic. Back in his days of covering music full-time, he recalls, "I'd go to pop concerts and then go on and on about lip-synching, but it doesn't matter to a young audience," he says. "I began to think I'm not serving anyone by pointing that out, because no one seems to care."
Now, Catlin, 49, writes mostly about TV. It's a gig he enjoys, and a step he felt was an inevitable step for a critic who wasn't particularly moved by the new sounds anymore.
"I didn't want to wait until I was pressured to move out," Catlin says. "It's better to make your own choice."
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000484696 (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000484696)
-
I dunno, the guy is 50 years old...why not get a real job by that point? Music critic is one of those jobs for reporters/writers who aren't very good.
-
Excuse me, Rhett? Are you telling me that Lester Bangs (well, was a good writer), Greil Marcus, and Robert Christgau (even though he's pretty much despised) aren't good writers?
Furthermore, don't you usually post other writers reviews? Care to try your own or are you a poor writer?
-
Originally posted by The Grimaceballs:
I dunno, the guy is 50 years old...why not get a real job by that point? Music critic is one of those jobs for reporters/writers who aren't very good.
Yet they probably still get paid more than the majority of people on this board.
-
Originally posted by The Grimaceballs:
I dunno, the guy is 50 years old...why not get a real job by that point? Music critic is one of those jobs for reporters/writers who aren't very good.
Some may say that about aging musicians too. That would probably be a jackass statement as well...
-
<img src="http://www.qualimedic.de/bilder/allgemeines/troll.gif" alt=" - " />
-
I'll bite....ggw, why do you keep posting that troll picture?
-
I'm not part of the journalism world, but aren't sportswriters, entertainment writers, music and film critics, etc, generally considered industry lightweights?
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
Excuse me, Rhett? Are you telling me that Lester Bangs (well, was a good writer), Greil Marcus, and Robert Christgau (even though he's pretty much despised) aren't good writers?
Furthermore, don't you usually post other writers reviews? Care to try your own or are you a poor writer?
-
Originally posted by Bags:
I'll bite....ggw, why do you keep posting that troll picture?
Originally posted by The Grimaceballs:
...
-
If someone's happy with their job, who gives a fuck?
Originally posted by The Grimaceballs:
[QB] I'm not part of the journalism world, but aren't sportswriters, entertainment writers, music and film critics, etc, generally considered industry lightweights?
-
I'll agree with that. I have no ambitions of ever going too high on the ladder myself, so high that my work would become my top priority in life.
But "senior pop music critic"? Just seems like an odd job for a fifty year old. I know a lot of people on here are ageist, and would find it hard taking the music criticisms of a 50 year old seriously, no?
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
If someone's happy with their job, who gives a fuck?
Originally posted by The Grimaceballs:
[QB] I'm not part of the journalism world, but aren't sportswriters, entertainment writers, music and film critics, etc, generally considered industry lightweights?
[/b]
-
old people are dumb.
-
I know a lot of people on here are ageist, and would find it hard taking the music criticisms of a 50 year old seriously, no?
lots of people still swear by john peel and he's 60
-
Isn't he more of a radio dj than a music critic?
Originally posted by brennser:
I know a lot of people on here are ageist, and would find it hard taking the music criticisms of a 50 year old seriously, no?
lots of people still swear by john peel and he's 60 [/b]
-
yes, but he still engages in 'music criticism' in who he chooses to play/not to play
Originally posted by The Grimaceballs:
Isn't he more of a radio dj than a music critic?
Originally posted by brennser:
I know a lot of people on here are ageist, and would find it hard taking the music criticisms of a 50 year old seriously, no?
lots of people still swear by john peel and he's 60 [/b]
[/b]
-
This guy could be in the prime of his mid life crisis. What more could record labels want then some horny writer reviewing the new Aguilera album!
Jokes aside, if the guy has proven himself as a solid interviewer/writer with a good ear then the paper is clearly in the wrong.
Originally posted by The Grimaceballs:
But "senior pop music critic"? Just seems like an odd job for a fifty year old. I know a lot of people on here are ageist, and would find it hard taking the music criticisms of a 50 year old seriously, no?
-
Maybe he was guilty of making condescending remarks about more youth-oriented genres, just as BigYawn writers are when it comes to more aged listener oriented genres like "adult-alternative".
http://bigyawn.net/reviews/cds/getupkids-guiltshow.htm (http://bigyawn.net/reviews/cds/getupkids-guiltshow.htm)
Or dismissing a whole cities worth of music in one lump sum...
http://bigyawn.net/reviews/cds/lambchop-awcmonno.htm (http://bigyawn.net/reviews/cds/lambchop-awcmonno.htm)
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
This guy could be in the prime of his mid life crisis. What more could record labels want then some horny writer reviewing the new Aguilera album!
Jokes aside, if the guy has proven himself as a solid interviewer/writer with a good ear then the paper is clearly in the wrong.
Originally posted by The Grimaceballs:
But "senior pop music critic"? Just seems like an odd job for a fifty year old. I know a lot of people on here are ageist, and would find it hard taking the music criticisms of a 50 year old seriously, no?
[/b]
-
We already knew that BigYawn was the bastion of the impotent shoegazers.....
-
Originally posted by Bags:
I'll bite....ggw, why do you keep posting that troll picture?
:roll:
-
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
We already knew that BigYawn was the bastion of the impotent shoegazers.....
...shoegazers who reel Rhett in and have him reading nigh near every word of every review. Way to go, bigyawners!
-
Originally posted by The Grimaceballs:
Music critic is one of those jobs for reporters/writers who aren't very good.
That's not true, it's just a coincidence that the reviews these days generally are not very good.
Does anyone else out there just not really get into music reviews?
-
Or dismissing a whole cities worth of music in one lump sum...
[/QB]
let me feed the troll......
I thought it was better than saying, "They come from Nashville, I hate modern country, but they are very far removed from those stereotypes"
vs
"What's worse is they are from Nashville , TN , and it really doesn't conjure up a good mental image, but dispel thoughts of rhinestones and Dolly Parton."
How would you have conveyed the same info?
-
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
We already knew that BigYawn was the bastion of the impotent shoegazers.....
and here i was thinking they were all apple computer salesfolk at best buy ;)
-
Originally posted by Ball Girl:
Originally posted by Bags:
I'll bite....ggw, why do you keep posting that troll picture?
:roll: [/b]
I'm not getting the rolling eyes....I'm wondering why ggw seems to be ferreting out trolls/lurkers today in particular and in numerous threads. Why does he think there are particularly a lot of lurkers today? Is it hfstival.com related??
-
Originally posted by Bags:
I'm not getting the rolling eyes....I'm wondering why ggw seems to be ferreting out trolls/lurkers today in particular and in numerous threads. Why does he think there are particularly a lot of lurkers today? Is it hfstival.com related?? [/b]
it's obvious to me he was referring to Rhett, and I think you're kind of dense, hence the eye roll
-
Originally posted by Bags:
I'm wondering why ggw seems to be ferreting out trolls/lurkers today in particular and in numerous threads. Why does he think there are particularly a lot of lurkers today? Is it hfstival.com related??
Unfortunately, the picture says Trolls. There is only one troll, his name is Rhett, although he has many aliases. You may have noticed that he started out the day by responding to each active thread with a strong, contrary post.
I think the roll-eyes indicate Tammy's surprise that you hadn't figured out that I was referring to her man.
-
I don't automatically jump to the negative reading of these things; I didn't see that at all. Yeah, call me dense, I know I'm just not nasty and didn't think of your husband as a troll right off the bat....sorry, next time I will.
-
blah blah blah...go back to your gushing over cheese and cheerleading...sorry to interrupt, seriously, sorry.
-
I would have approached it as saying they are derived more from the countrypolitan sounds of Nashville circa 1970 than being associated with the current sound of mainstream Nashville.
By only referencing the stereotype of modern country (of which Dolly Parton is NOT a part of, by the way), you ignore such current non-mainstream outlaws as Steve Earle, EmmyLou Harris, BR549, Lucinda Williams, etc. to which Lambchop may be aligned with, if not in sound, at least in spirit.
There is great music coming out of Nashville, and it doesn't begin and end with Lambchop.
Originally posted by mark e smith:
Or dismissing a whole cities worth of music in one lump sum...
[/b]
let me feed the troll......
I thought it was better than saying, "They come from Nashville, I hate modern country, but they are very far removed from those stereotypes"
vs
"What's worse is they are from Nashville , TN , and it really doesn't conjure up a good mental image, but dispel thoughts of rhinestones and Dolly Parton."
How would you have conveyed the same info? [/QB]
-
How do you get a good point/counterpoint discussion going, if not but to offer a strong contrary opinion?
Sometimes a music board needs some argumentation; more than reports on soccer scores 3000 miles away, or opinions on music downloading and ipods. Boooorrring.
But that's just my opinion.
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by Bags:
I'm wondering why ggw seems to be ferreting out trolls/lurkers today in particular and in numerous threads. Why does he think there are particularly a lot of lurkers today? Is it hfstival.com related??
Unfortunately, the picture says Trolls. There is only one troll, his name is Rhett, although he has many aliases. You may have noticed that he started out the day by responding to each active thread with a strong, contrary post.
I think the roll-eyes indicate Tammy's surprise that you hadn't figured out that I was referring to her man. [/b]
-
It was a good argument up until the mudslinging.
-
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
I think the roll-eyes indicate Tammy's surprise that you hadn't figured out that I was referring to her man.
KLF is gonna rock ya
-
I would think, rhett, that you'd slam someone for using a term like countrypolitan.
"Countrypolitan" -
245 gorgeous homes combining the warmth of the country with the amenities of today's most innovative designs.
-
Nice.
Originally posted by Ball Girl:
KLF is gonna rock ya
-
Originally posted by The Grimaceballs:
[QB] I would have approached it as saying they are derived more from the countrypolitan sounds of Nashville circa 1970 than being associated with the current sound of mainstream Nashville.
By only referencing the stereotype of modern country (of which Dolly Parton is NOT a part of, by the way), you ignore such current non-mainstream outlaws as Steve Earle, EmmyLou Harris, BR549, Lucinda Williams, etc. to which Lambchop may be aligned with, if not in sound, at least in spirit.
I was dreading writing the review and put it off many times. I really do have strong personal negative connotations with Nashville. But I dont know enough about it, but then I am not really interested in it.
I have read a lot of other lambchop reviews and they have always had trouble aligning their sound to other bands. Right I am off to countrypolitan.com for some post event research, thanks.
-
<img src="http://members.ij.net/captbob2112/troll.jpg" alt=" - " />
by trolling a troll, does not that make GGW a troll, too?
Battle ye not with monsters, lest ye become a monster.
-
well the shazam hail from nashville and they certainly aren't part of the contemporary country scene... nashville has a well respected power pop scene
-
Originally posted by mark e smith:
by trolling a troll, does not that make GGW a troll, too?
No. I'm not looking to stir up all the other posters, just the opposite.
-
Kurt Loder...do you think he was much of a load in his youth?
-
Originally posted by ggw™:
No. I'm not looking to stir up all the other posters, just the opposite.
so your goal is to bore everybody, then?
-
When you two are in bed, does he tell you your hair is stringy and your tits are too small, just so it won't be boring?
Originally posted by Ball Girl:
Originally posted by ggw™:
No. I'm not looking to stir up all the other posters, just the opposite.
so your goal is to bore everybody, then? [/b]
-
Upon first read, I'd though maybe flawd hijacked your user name, but his comments are usually more clever...
Still, I expect better comments from you.
Any thinking person would know that stimulating a lively conversation by stating a differing opinion on subjects of entertainment is different from dissing someone while you're having sex with them. That's not even a good analogy for humourous purposes.
Do you really want the board to be one big, bland lovefest? Where's the growth in that? Hell, where's the *enterainment* in that?