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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: Jaguar on April 16, 2007, 12:55:00 pm
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If we sort of know you as being from the Virginia area, please check in.
Sadly, there was a horrid shooting at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg only hours ago.
What I'm hearing is that there are 22 dead and 21 others being treated for bullet wounds.
The shooter is dead but they are on the look out for a possible 2nd shooter.
I truly hope that you are all okay; not that that makes the lose of anyone not known any less tragic.
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Now they are saying 21 dead. You know how early news is.
Also, they are saying to STAY AWAY if possible. Of course, all classes cancelled the rest of today and tomorrow.
***If you have any concerns about anyone in the area, meet or try to contact them at The Inn At Virginia Tech.
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Oh my god.
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maybe some of us should check in so we know they werent the one shooting people!
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yeah, crazy...
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Early story:
Gunman kills 21 on Virginia Tech campus (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070416/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting)
By SUE LINDSEY, Associated Press Writer
7 minutes ago
A gunman opened fire in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing 21 people in the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history. The gunman was killed, but it was unclear if he was shot by police or took his own life.
"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said Virginia Tech president Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified."
The university reported shootings at opposite sides of the 2,600-acre campus, beginning at about 7:15 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston, a co-ed residence hall that houses 895 people, and continuing about two hours later at Norris Hall, an engineering building.
Some but not all the dead were students. One student was killed in a dorm and the others were killed in the classroom, Virginia Tech Police Chief W.R. Flinchum.
The name of the gunman was not released. It was not known if he was a student.
Up until Monday, the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history took place in 1966 at the University of Texas, where Charles Whitman climbed to the 28th-floor observation deck of a clock tower and opened fire. He killed 16 people before he was gunned down by police. In the Columbine High bloodbath near Littleton, Colo., in 1999, two teenagers killed 12 fellow students and a teacher before taking their own lives.
After Monday's shootings, all entrances to the campus were closed. The campus was to reopen Tuesday but classes were canceled.
The university set up a meeting place for families to reunite with their children at the Inn at Virginia Tech. It also made counselors available and planned a convocation for Tuesday at the Cassell Coliseum basketball arena.
After the shootings, students were told to stay inside away from the windows.
"There's just a lot of commotion. It's hard to tell exactly what's going on," said Jason Anthony Smith, 19, who lives in the dorm where shooting took place.
Aimee Kanode, a freshman from Martinsville, said the shooting happened on the 4th floor of West Ambler Johnston dormitory, one floor above her room. Kanode's resident assistant knocked on her door about 8 a.m. to notify students to stay put.
"They had us under lockdown," Kanode said. "They temporarily lifted the lockdown, the gunman shot again."
"We're all locked in our dorms surfing the Internet trying to figure out what's going on," Kanode said.
Madison Van Duyne, a student who was interviewed by telephone on CNN, said, "We are all in lockdown. Most of the students are sitting on the floors away from the windows just trying to be as safe as possible."
Police said there had been bomb threats on campus over the past two weeks by authorities but said they have not determined a link to the shootings.
It was second time in less than a year that the campus was closed because of a shooting.
In August 2006, the opening day of classes was canceled and the campus closed when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff's deputy involved in the manhunt was killed on a trail just off campus.
The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges.
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My neighbor's two daughters attend tech. Still no word. He is freaking as I would be if I were in his place.
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I got one friend & another associate that both recently graduated from Va. Tech. Needless to say, they're both shook the fuck up & don't really feel much like talking. My heart goes out to those kids & their families that were touched by this bullshit. If you directly have relatives and/or friends that go to Va. Tech, my heart goes out to you as well . . . .
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In case you missed my 'Edit' above:
If you need to meet, gather or contact anyone in the area, they are recommending you go to The Inn At Virginia Tech.
Also, all classes are cancelled for the rest of the day and tomorrow.
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I'm a VT grad and still have many contacts there. I've heard from most of them :(
I know that the sometimes-regular Flawd is a VT student.
Flawd, how about checking in with us?
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29 confirmed dead right now (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3045574)
i can't believe this asshole did this kind of damage with two 9mm semi-auto handguns, unreal shit
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i really hate when these gunmen end up killing themselves..leaving behind only theories and their CD collections to figure out why someone would kill so many random people.
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Yeap, just heard that.
From the VT rumour mill:
(So take it for what it's worth.)
Apparently, the shooter's girlfriend had just broken up with him. She was an Engineering student. He first went to a dorm and did some damage and then went over to Norris Hall, the Engineering building, and did even more.
Love gone wrong. Very, very wrong.
Being April, I suspect the guy was also manic depressive. I say that because March and then April tends to be when the manic depressives go waaay off the hook. Supposedly, the highest numbers are in March but to my memory, it always seems to be in April that I hear about them. But I'm speculating here.
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More unsubstantiated rumors...
He lined people up in the classroom and shot them execution style.
I'm on a listserv where one person has identified a dead friend of his.
I think I'm going to be sick.
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i am south of dc, but a couple hours from tech.
i've heard from both of my friends that are there (one's a grad student, one just still lives/works down there) and they're ok.
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Originally posted by eros:
Flawd, how about checking in with us?
is anyone friends with flawd on myspace? any updates on there?
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Originally posted by le sonick:
i really hate when these gunmen end up killing themselves..leaving behind only theories and their CD collections to figure out why someone would kill so many random people.
hey, don't forget abotu video games.
paging jack thompson.
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South of DC....I'm fine!
I keep seeing flashes on CNN, it says 21 injured, not dead. Can someone confirm this one way or the other.
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Originally posted by Hoya Paranoia:
Originally posted by eros:
Flawd, how about checking in with us?
is anyone friends with flawd on myspace? any updates on there? [/b]
I'm just hoping he's contacting his family and close friends at the moment, letting them know he's alright.
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VT has 25,000 full time students. From a statistical standpoint, the odds that our old pal Flawd was a victim is pretty low. Still, the whole thing is nauseating.
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The latest on the Post website says 32 dead, more than 24 injured.
Originally posted by Roadbike Mankie:
South of DC....I'm fine!
I keep seeing flashes on CNN, it says 21 injured, not dead. Can someone confirm this one way or the other.
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If you want the facts go to the bbc.
22 dead and 21 injured.
Tragic, just tragic.
Remind me again why there's gun ownership rights? Actually don't....I don't want to turn this into a heated 2nd amendment debate.
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If this turns into a debate, I will lock the thread.
My thoughts go out to those affected.
Originally posted by Roadbike Mankie:
Remind me again why there's gun ownership rights? Actually don't....I don't want to turn this into a heated 2nd amendment debate.
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such a tragedy...someone must have burst his bubble!
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aww people remeber me. i havent beeen a regular in years. thanks to those that wished to hear from me
i had my 8 am and test at 9 am. follow ed seeing everyone come from the drill field and waking up my roommate. today has been probably the strangest day of my life. the one i wish never happened. i had a class on norris 2nd floor last semester with one of the coolest teachers ever and hope he is ok. its now 32 dead and i hope everyone, whether you believe or not to pray for those (so far) 31 innocent dead and many injured.
its surreal that something like this can happen at your home. i am thankful i dont have an amazing story like those i have heard all day from the news or kids in my hall.
i have no clue what i have typed and will probably want to add more but whatever.
laterr
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:(
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Oh, thank God you are okay Flawd!!! My heart goes out to you and all of your classmates and their families.
Just heard another rumour. This one is from the SWAT team's side.
Apparently, the situation is definitely not over. At least, from their point of view. They still are not positive if there is another (or more) shooter. Supposedly, they suspect a few others. Whether that is just them be extra cautious, pyschological profiling, misinformation, unreleased facts we don't know about, or what, I don't know.
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well, we still can't realy make calls out but campus is open so i think the rumor can't be too serious.
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I'm fine, everyone I know at Tech is fine. Horrific.
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Good!!! But Julian, aren't you in Detroit now? Or was that just temporary?
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how much time was between the first shootings at the dorm and the shootings on campus??? and arent the two locations on complete opposite sides of each other on campus? so how was the this kid not spotted running from first to second site, i really think that he had partners, anyone else??
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Originally posted by Jaguar:
Good!!! But Julian, aren't you in Detroit now? Or was that just temporary?
I was there for about 6 months for work. I'm back around Richmond. Thanks for paying attention when I said I relocated though!
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Originally posted by tinygee:
how much time was between the first shootings at the dorm and the shootings on campus??? and arent the two locations on complete opposite sides of each other on campus? so how was the this kid not spotted running from first to second site, i really think that he had partners, anyone else??
There was about 2 hours inbetween and a quarter of a mile.
No clue why not more of a lockdown/warning.
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Originally posted by tinygee:
how much time was between the first shootings at the dorm and the shootings on campus??? and arent the two locations on complete opposite sides of each other on campus? so how was the this kid not spotted running from first to second site, i really think that he had partners, anyone else??
Yeah, something about this story doesn't add up. If it really was a single guy and he made it across the campus then the university and the police have some explaining to do.
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Originally posted by eros:
Yeah, something about this story doesn't add up.
Which is why I wouldn't start speculating....
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by eros:
Yeah, something about this story doesn't add up.
Which is why I wouldn't start speculating.... [/b]
Which is why you are on the lawyer side. Some of us prefer to think like detectives. ;)
While I've heard that the two locations were on opposite sides of the campus, I don't know the layout of the place. Assuming it's the same guy, could he have hopped in a car and just driven over? Think in terms of parking slots, not necessarily assigned student spaces. Remember, this guy wasn't playing by the normal rules of society.
Also, most of these people on the campus aren't use to this kind of drama and weren't by any means expecting anything like this to happen. It's not like they were on the look out for anything out of the norm. Even if they saw something a bit odd, they probably didn't have any reason to think much about it. They were still just dragging their butts out of bed and worried about getting to class on time and not get blown away by the wind in the process. They weren't suspecting that it might be in some other manner. On top of that, it's not like most, or even any, are trained in what to do in this kind of a situation. The most they had in their favor was to call 911 on the many cell phones around which were probably already jammed by then.
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Originally posted by Jaguar:
Which is why you are on the lawyer side. Some of us prefer to think like detectives.
Actually Jag, this is much worse for me. I am a University Administrator and part of a Crisis Response and Aversion Team. We talk about these scenarios all the time, always hoping that they never happen. We run small cities (25K students, 3-4K staff and faculty), but with much more densisty, the majority of these "people" in our "city" just finding out who they are in this world. When parents drop their 18 year old kid off for the first day of school, the first time they are venturing out from their paretns nest, the first thing they say is "keep my kid safe" and then they say "and give them a good education."
No matter how these facts are finally played out, whether culpable of anything or not, many of the Adminstators will blame themselves for not keeping the kids safe. I know I would, and wouldn't even have been at work at 7:15 when it started.
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Originally posted by Jaguar:
Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by eros:
Yeah, something about this story doesn't add up.
Which is why I wouldn't start speculating.... [/b]
Which is why you are on the lawyer side. Some of us prefer to think like detectives. ;)
[/b]
In true lawyer fashion smackie is already thinking up some catchy rhyme to get the scumbag off "If the glove doesn't fit.........."
"There was no time to walk so my client must walk"
The fact he's dead is irrelevant to a lawyer, it's all about the billing hours baby!!!!!
Seriously though, it just doesn't seem to add up to me either, over 30 dead from one operative??? And there were three bomb scares in the last couple of weeks, I'd be very surprised if they aren't connected.
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Originally posted by Jaguar:
Also, most of these people on the campus aren't use to this kind of drama and weren't by any means expecting anything like this to happen. It's not like they were on the look out for anything out of the norm.
Maybe this is why I'm concerned more action wasn't taken sooner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Morva)
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To Smackie:
Very true, and that gives me a lot more understanding of why you are reacting the way that you are. The captain of the ship and his/her crew have to do what they can to keep order in the mist of chaos and they too don't always know how to behave even if well trained in the oft chance.
To Mankie:
Yeah but then again, back to my original statement, a good lawyer must also think like a detective in order to piece a case together, be it for the best outcome or not.
To Eros:
As creepy as that is, some of these kids were not students at this campus yet. Besides, it all comes off like an isolated incident. Until today.
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Originally posted by eros:
Originally posted by Jaguar:
Also, most of these people on the campus aren't use to this kind of drama and weren't by any means expecting anything like this to happen. It's not like they were on the look out for anything out of the norm.
Maybe this is why I'm concerned more action wasn't taken sooner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Morva) [/b]
I'm confused, is this the gunman today?
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No, different incident, Mankie. Skim through the article and you will see a date.
The one caveat that would throw off my theory are the bombing threats. I have no idea how well informed the students were about that. But knowing how the school system that I use to work for was, they were masters at keeping it all hush hush even when bells should have been going off. I won't elaborate here but it's all a tough call as to what may have happened without more details.
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Originally posted by Jaguar:
To Mankie:
Yeah but then again, back to my original statement, a good lawyer must also think like a detective in order to piece a case together, be it for the best outcome or not.
A lawyer doesn't and shouldn't think like a detective because a lawyer is not interested in the truth or justice. A lawyer is only interested in the best outcome for his/her client, and if that means getting OJ off, then so be it.
Anyway, back to topic.....I hope to God the death toll has at least stopped. I can't help but think this is a well planned team effort and not the work of a madman or crazed jilted lover as some reports are saying.
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No, todays gunman was Asian.
Originally posted by Roadbike Mankie:
Originally posted by eros:
Originally posted by Jaguar:
Also, most of these people on the campus aren't use to this kind of drama and weren't by any means expecting anything like this to happen. It's not like they were on the look out for anything out of the norm.
Maybe this is why I'm concerned more action wasn't taken sooner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Morva) [/b]
I'm confused, is this the gunman today? [/b]
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Horrible, imagine those young students with the whole life in front of them. Terrible.
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the one name released...he was to graduate this spring with 3 degrees.
supposedly the call was orginally taken as a kid falling off of his loft.
the killer supposedly was wlooking for his girlfriend. so the two hours inbetween he left then ment to go find her in class. thus the two hour delay between shootings. the walk is about 10 minutes so it is thought he blended back in and just waited. 4th floor west aj is male. the cops did what they could but no one could have possibly seen this coming.
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The police chief seems to be hinting to a different person of interest for the dorm shooting who is currently not in custody. He said the description of the dorm shooter does not match the one in the engineer building. They are waiting on balistics to determine if it was the same shooter.
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The 'reporters' asking the questions should have all been kicked out of the news conference. Had I been the officer conducting that press conference, the one male with the deep voice would have been gone for sure (he sounded like the guy from court tv). Almost every question was nothing more than trying to bait the officer into saying things he didnt want to say. The investigation is ongoing! Damn press needs to shut the hell up and let them do their job. As soon as that officer gets baited into saying something and in compromises any conviction, those every same reporters will be at his throat asking him why he was so stupid as to release info ahead of time! I swear reporters are worse than lawyers, at least lawyers do good part of the time.
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**oops**
i deleted it as you were posting that. sorry guys.
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Originally posted by bkrome:
heres the guys xanga aparently. his main facebook picture is him with about 10 shotguns.
http://www.xanga.com/wanusmaximus (http://www.xanga.com/wanusmaximus)
It's not him.
http://wanusmaximus.livejournal.com/ (http://wanusmaximus.livejournal.com/)
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The fox reporter who is the bigest turd ball of a reporter that I have ever seen is named ted Williams I think. he is/was on with Greta tonight. His voice sounds exactly like the voice I was hearing during thr press conference. I really wish that officer would have had him escorted out.
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OK now this "reporting" is really starting to piss me off.
1st) Will someone please tell geraldo that he is supposed to REPORT the news not CREATE it?
2nd) Will someone please tell oberman (or whatever his name is on MSNBC) that they can't have it both ways. They all sit theer and bitch when the cops, prosecutors, etc jump in right away and end up nbot having every detail exactly right, now when the cops are saying that they will give information when they have reliable data these same people are bitching about why the cops arent saying enough.
For those old enough to remember, cronkite would never do this type of shit.
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what do you all feel about releasing the name of the shooter? do you think that it might bait copycats?
personally, i dont care to know this guy. obviously he is a coward; shooting defenseless people and taking the easy way out when he had to confront the cops.
im counting my blessings today. my sister goes to vtech and had dropped out of one of the classes that had gotten shot up; apparently this one class (the shooter hit a few) had around 30 students and was in a very small room.
my thoughts and prayers go out to all vt students and their families.
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Originally posted by bigyellow100:
what do you all feel about releasing the name of the shooter? do you think that it might bait copycats?
i don't think it really matters what people think, it'll most definitely come out
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Its frustrating to not know all the details right now but you have to assume everything will leak or be released soon. The latest reports have the shooter being a Chinese immigrant here on a visa. He was not a student.
The methodical way he went about it is frightening. It is painful to imagine what the students were going through as the gunman open fired on their classrooms. What a shitty day.
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Originally posted by bigyellow100:
what do you all feel about releasing the name of the shooter? do you think that it might bait copycats?
More often than not, the perp's identity is one of the first released in tragedies like this. It's the victims we don't find out about until later, generally due to family notification.
Apparently, the shooter wasn't carrying any identification. I too heard about him maybe being a Chinese immigrant non-student who may have been having an affair with a student. It's all still sketchy yet. Maybe they just aren't sure yet of his identity and/or might not want to release much more before contacting his family which may take much longer if they are in China.
I'm still hearing that there may be another shooter. Very little details being released but if there is another, it probably has to do with not wanting to compromise the situation. Still odd that the campus isn't on some sort of lock down, if that be the case, but maybe they have good reason to believe the guy(?) is lying low and danger is at a minimum. If so, it's kind of difficult to balance holding an entire campus in place and keeping up with an ongoing investigation and such. You've got an incredible amount of issues to contend with from safety, citizens' rights, meals, medical concerns, family issues, etc..
I just hope that the horrid side of this is over and that there was only one shooter or they capture any others immediately without incident.
Supposedly, a list of victims is to be released tomorrow (Tuesday). Not sure if that includes what they know of the shooter.
BigYellow, thank God your sister dropped out of that class! You and your family, especially your sister, must be totally creeped out about now. Was that the German class? I wish her all the best with whatever she chooses to do regarding her educational choices from here on.
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jaguar, thanks. my sister dropped out of a class that i believe is called humanities and the arts.
of course there has been a great deal of criticism about how the police handled the situation, which is only going to be an even bigger controversy later on. yet i believe that vt police and blacksburg pd did as much and as well as they couldve done given the circumstances.
it is impossible to lockdown a university of that size; thats just unrealistic. a lot have also been said about the slow communication, but to me it doesnt seem to be an inefficiency issue as much as an issue where they didnt have all the facts and didnt want to start widespread panic. and though the pd has been very vague on the details of the case thus far, im sure (well, hope) that the people who need to know whats going on (the victims' families) have gotten the news.
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Originally posted by bigyellow100:
what do you all feel about releasing the name of the shooter? do you think that it might bait copycats?
personally, i dont care to know this guy. obviously he is a coward; shooting defenseless people and taking the easy way out when he had to confront the cops.
im counting my blessings today. my sister goes to vtech and had dropped out of one of the classes that had gotten shot up; apparently this one class (the shooter hit a few) had around 30 students and was in a very small room.
my thoughts and prayers go out to all vt students and their families.
I dont buy the 'copy cat' theory at all. Most of these people do what they do with no concern of who the heel did what before them. I think the hole 'copycat' thing is just a 20-20 hindsight fitting of similarities to otherwise 100% unrelated events. Having said that, I see absolutely nothing about releasing or not releasing any name would have any impact.
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the shooter apparently was a college student:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6563565.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6563565.stm)
In these kind of chaotic situations, it is very normal for all kinds of conflicting and false information to come out. Some time is required for the facts to sort themselves out.