930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: jakez468 on June 22, 2004, 01:15:00 am
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damn
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a dubious post topic, but heres the article.
Lollapalooza cancelled (http://www.vh1.com/news/articles/1488569/06222004/farrell_perry.jhtml)
Lollapalooza Canceled; Organizers Cite Poor Ticket Sales
'My heart is broken,' organizer Perry Farrell says.
Three weeks prior to kickoff, Lollapalooza has been canceled.
Organizers cited poor ticket sales as the reason the 31-date, 16-city trek was called off. This year's lineup was set to include Morrissey, Sonic Youth, PJ Harvey, the Flaming Lips
and the String Cheese Incident (see "Lollapalooza Adds Danger Mouse, Von Bondies; Dates Unveiled").
"My heart aches along with the bands and all of our employees, whose hard work developed one of the most exciting and important tours that this nation was to see," read a statement from Lollapalooza co-founder Perry Farrell. "My heart is broken."
The decision to scrap Lollapalooza was made Monday evening (June 21), when organizers and promoters realized they stood to lose several million dollars. In all markets except New York, advance ticket sales were below estimates.
"On the average, the losses, had ticket sales not dramatically picked up â?? which they showed no indication of doing â?? the people involved faced losses in the mid-to-high six figures on a per-show basis," said the William Morris Agency's Marc Geiger, another Lollapalooza co-founder.
Fans who purchased tickets will be given refunds.
Geiger said Lollapalooza's plight is indicative of a summer touring season on the slide.
"Lollapalooza is not alone in this," he said. "Everyone from the Dead to Dave Matthews to Norah Jones is suffering. There's not one explanation for this. It might be that ticket prices are too high, which doesn't account for Lollapalooza, because our tickets were priced between $15 and $25. Maybe it's the sundry add-ons [like service charges] that up the cost? Maybe gas prices are too high? Just like the record industry is suffering, the concert business is not exempt.
"After people get through this summer season," he added, "there's going to be a lot of fixing that needs to be done in the concert industry."
Early on in its 13-year history, Lollapalooza built a reputation for eclectic lineups, but as the years wore on it became more well known for having trouble getting off the ground (see "Perry Hits Lollapasnooza Button: Tour Sleeps Another Year"). After 1997's outing with Korn, Tool and Snoop Dogg, the tour lied dormant until last year, when it returned with a lineup that featured Jane's Addiction, Queens of the Stone Age and Audioslave (see "Jane's Addiction Headline But Audioslave Steal Show At Lollapalooza Launch").
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man. they had a better line-up than hfstival.
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shit
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yeah, i had actually bought tickets to that INSTEAD of the Cure. now i will have to lump it with bad Cure seats. phooey.
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this really blows :( if only because the price was right. the cost of the seeing morrissey and sonic youth seperately is probably going to exceed $40...
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You'll be able to see Sonic Youth for under 30. It's a shame they had to cancel Lollapalooza.
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I was SO looking forward to this. They really did a line-up that could have been a mini-Coachella. Now I'll be stuck forking over 4 times as much when PJ, Sonic Youth and Morrissey come around separately. Ouch.
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i agree but... if i wanted to see both sonic youth and morrissey solo it would cost approx $60 (Morrissey $35 + Sonic Youth $25) Add the BRMC & Von Bondies co-headline show $15. $75 PJ Harvey $20 - $95 some the second stage bands playing together another $15 - 20. And thats just for the first day.
personally i blame Canada (the String Cheese Incident are surely Canadian), Tivo and Coachella. Haven't found the proof yet but I'm sure MI5 and Tony Blair had a hand in this as well.
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True enough. I read over your earlier post much too quickly.
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i could setup a stage in my backyard... BRMC and the Von Bondies are welcome to play there.
it's a shame the 9:30 club and Black Cat aren't slightly bigger... they could split the festival up between the two clubs. and farm some of the smaller acts out to velvet and dc9.
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Originally posted by thirsty moore:
True enough. I read over your earlier post much too quickly.
no worries happens to me all the time... mr and mrs vinyl often got letters from my teachers regarding the inability to pay attention to detail.
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if only they had added a reunited creed
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Maybe they'd have better results if it wasn't totally general admission? They'd at least get people to buy seats quickly to try to get a good spot. Why buy a ticket months in advance for a GA show that's not going to sellout?
I would have jumped on Day 1, if I could have gotten a decent reserved seat. With GA, I might as well wait until the last minute and see what other options turn up for that date.
It does suck though. That was the first Lolla lineup I was remotely interested in.
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hell i would have paid an extra $5 towards making the marr/morrissey feud go away...
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I'd chalk it up to Lollapalooza running its course. Also, those bands have basically the same group of fans. They sell out clubs, not outdoor sheds.
Originally posted by Skeeter:
Maybe they'd have better results if it wasn't totally general admission? They'd at least get people to buy seats quickly to try to get a good spot. Why buy a ticket months in advance for a GA show that's not going to sellout?
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That's a good point. It's not like each band is going to bring in a distinct fanbase.
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Originally posted by thirsty moore:
I'd chalk it up to Lollapalooza running its course. Also, those bands have basically the same group of fans. They sell out clubs, not outdoor sheds.
Bugger!
You are right though.
If only they had got some crap acts to bollster the line up, say Nickleback and evanessence, maybe Blink182, I am sure they would have sold more tickets.
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Well that sucks.
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but if the mainstage lineup were announced at the club it would sellout in a minute, people would be bellyaching about tickets.com, oh wait where is that beastie boys thread.
the problem is that lineup is bigger than constitution hall but smaller than an arena. so where in this area would one have it, other than an outdoor field which would sucketh imho...
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
i could setup a stage in my backyard...
funny, I was thinking the same thing - put on the show ourselves. I know, too hard. BigYawn to the rescue?
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Wow so at least TicketBastard still comes out ahead and makes money!
MindCage
Mindless Faith (http://www.mindlessfaith.com)
Deep6 Productions (http://www.deep6.com)
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Maybe they should have condensed the whole thing to one day before deciding to cancel altogether. I just saw Morrissey last month in NY but the only dates PJ Harvey has scheduled in the US thus far were for Lolla.
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Originally posted by Sugartastic Tee Silk:
man. they had a better line-up than hfstival.
Obvioulsy not, HFEstival didnt have to cancel....LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.....I liked the Lollipopoluza lineup, Where was it at? Nissan? Maybe thats why I wasnt going.
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Merriweather
Originally posted by Rob_Gee_a.k.a _Guiny:
Where was it at? Nissan? Maybe thats why I wasnt going.
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Originally posted by Random Citizen:
Merriweather
Originally posted by Rob_Gee_a.k.a _Guiny:
Where was it at? Nissan? Maybe thats why I wasnt going.
[/b]
Oyyy, just as bad. Although traffic and parking is better I guess.
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Who cares about traffic and parking? Get there early. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices to see an incredible lineup of good music. People are just too damn lazy. Its a damn shame this show was cancelled. What's wrong with this country?
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This will probably tranlate into the standing weekend festivals (Coachella, Austin, Bonanaroo, etc.) seeing even larger crowds in the future.
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PJ Harvey and Sonic Youth on the same day would make it worth traffic and parking all by themselves. The new and improved Merriweather deserves good shows like this. Maybe the ever ambitious Mr. Hurwitz can cobble together his own Merriweather festival.
Originally posted by LonnieBeale:
Who cares about traffic and parking? Get there early. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices to see an incredible lineup of good music. People are just too damn lazy. Its a damn shame this show was cancelled. What's wrong with this country?
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Hey Seth, any possibility of booking some of the scraps of Lollapalooza at the club? Such a shame to have to cancel a great lineup.
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:(
I thought Day One looked great, but couldn't commit to a day off of work quite yet. Really a bummer, as it's the only summer fest (besides the Cure-a-thon) I was in the least bit interested in. Ooh, except SirenFest, though I don't think I'll make it...
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Originally posted by Lamb007:
PJ Harvey and Sonic Youth on the same day would make it worth traffic and parking all by themselves. The new and improved Merriweather deserves good shows like this. Maybe the ever ambitious Mr. Hurwitz can cobble together his own Merriweather festival.
Hurwitzapalooza?
Sethachella?
ImpFest?
Columbia City Limits?
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Elbow....please....pretty please :)
Originally posted by Mongo:
Hey Seth, any possibility of booking some of the scraps of Lollapalooza at the club? Such a shame to have to cancel a great lineup.
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Originally posted by Random Citizen:
This will probably tranlate into the standing weekend festivals (Coachella, Austin, Bonanaroo, etc.) seeing even larger crowds in the future.
>>I had the good fortune to see the original festival that Perry lifted the idea for and later became Lollapalooza. It was called "A Gathering Of The Tribes" and was at the Shoreline Ampitheater in San Fran a couple years before Lolla....1 day in San Fran and one day in L.A....it was conceived by Ian Astbury of the Cult and was eclectic and very well organized,of course Bill Graham was there front and center running the show....I was in the 4th row center....killer fuckin' seats.....benefits of working for BASS at the time....but back then I wondered how something like this show would work as a large scale touring model......Perry made it work well for a few years.....I think this new show was too amibitious in scope......I think scaling it down to maybe 3 cities in the east,3 in the west and maybe Chicago could have created a demand and people will travel for a great lineup...see Coachella....I don't think you'll ever see it again in it's current configuration.....
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Originally posted by The O' Rotten Factor:
I think this new show was too amibitious in scope......I think scaling it down to maybe 3 cities in the east,3 in the west and maybe Chicago could have created a demand and people will travel for a great lineup...see Coachella....
Or, keeping it to one day in more cities. I'd be interested to know how each individual day sold as singles, and how many two-day passes sold.
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Originally posted by Lamb007:
Maybe the ever ambitious Mr. Hurwitz can cobble together his own Merriweather festival.
I'd go. Sorry to plug a selfish request - but a weekend date would be grand.
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Originally posted by Sugartastic Tee Silk:
Sorry to plug a selfish request - but a weekend date would be grand. [/b]
you need a date this weekend? ;)
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The loss of Lollapalooza is dissapointing on so many levels. In some ways, I just don't get it. I was just at a 4 day festival in Kansas where only 6,000 folks showed up. Yet, the festival made money! While it's not apples vs apples, still, it is very unfortunate. The east coast really is missing that big festival, and part of me wonders if we'll ever have one. Sirenfest is nice, but not quite on par with the others in TX and CA.
Man, how depressing.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
which doesn't account for Lollapalooza, because our tickets were priced between $15 and $25. Maybe it's the sundry add-ons [like service charges] that up the cost?
yeah. $25??? I paid $102.50 for my TWO tickets.
25+25=102.50? sounds like Radiohead math to me.
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Originally posted by redsock:
The east coast really is missing that big festival, and part of me wonders if we'll ever have one.
Perhaps you forget the "glory" of Field Day Fest.
*snikkers*
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i am going to be out of town anyway, but i would have been excited for pj, modest mouse, sonic youth, ect.. i was still leaning against going before the date was announced, just because i am wary of how some of the bands i like (modest mouse particularly) would sound in a larger venue. plus, as a virginia resident, i trust nothing in maryland
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
plus, as a virginia resident, i trust nothing in maryland
touche
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Before you go asking Seth to fork out some of his millions, does anyone know how ticket sales for the DC/NoVa/MD Lolla show were doing?
By my count he's got about ten tickets sold for Sethapalooza.
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hahahahahaha. i'm happy your shitty tour got cancelled!!!! lalalalllalala
i'm goin to ozzfest but you get nothing :D :D :D :D
this made my day.
<img src="http://www.aroundmidnight.demon.co.uk/gif/hahaha.gif" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://www.minghui.org/mh/article_images/2002-1-18-car-accident.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Originally posted by flawd101:
hahahahahaha. i'm happy your shitty tour got cancelled!!!! lalalalllalala
i'm goin to ozzfest but you get nothing :D :D :D :D
this made my day.
Wow. Back from camp so soon? In my days, camp used to last for months on end.
Well, welcome back, flawd, you've been missed.
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no he hasn't
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Originally posted by Bagalicious Tangster:
:(
I thought Day One looked great, but couldn't commit to a day off of work quite yet.
That is exactly the same reason that I never had firm plans on going. What seems to be ignored in a lot of these debates is that all of the Lallopalooza kids have grown up to become Lallopalooza working adults who only have so much time off they can spare. This is America, land of the over-worked. Not Europe where they get bank holiday afer bank holiday inbetween weeks and weeks of vacation time.
I don't think it was so much the ticket cost though 2 days worth would hurt someone like me on my crap pay. Regardless, the ticket prices were good.
There were a good chunk of bands that I had absolutely no desire to see but even with that, I think that it was a good and appropriate collection when you are trying to please the general masses.
My votes for a salvage show would be Morrissey, BRMC and Elbow. (See, I also couldn't decide which of the 2 I'd go to considering that I personally would have only been able to do one.)
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I, like Perry, I am heartbroken at the news. I was SO looking forward to this show. :(
There were 6-8 bands playing each day that I REALLY wanted to see. :(
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Originally posted by flawd101:
[QB] <img src="http://www.aroundmidnight.demon.co.uk/gif/hahaha.gif" alt=" - " />
I love this picture - *this* made my day!
(I've not seen a pic/remembered The Count for years!).
Back on topic, I was definitely surprised to hear about Lolla being canceled. What a shame! I am not into going to festivals/Lolla but I do love Morrissey and I know many people who were going to go to this ...
Cheers
DJ Medusa.
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Originally posted by Jaguär:
That is exactly the same reason that I never had firm plans on going.
so wait.
no one buys CD OR goes to concerts anymore?
hmm, thats wierd.
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Bummed about lolla being cancelled, as I had me a grand old time at last year's, but I'm still hoping PJ Harvey plays DC.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by Jaguär:
That is exactly the same reason that I never had firm plans on going.
so wait.
no one buys CD OR goes to concerts anymore?
hmm, thats wierd. [/b]
Huh? Your post, it confuses me.
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Originally posted by Sugartastic Tee Silk:
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by Jaguär:
That is exactly the same reason that I never had firm plans on going.
so wait.
no one buys CD OR goes to concerts anymore?
hmm, thats wierd. [/b]
Huh? Your post, it confuses me. [/b]
well, the RIAA says, no one buys CDs anymore, and now i read that no one goes to concerts anymore? what are you fat americans doing?
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
well, the RIAA says, no one buys CDs anymore, and now i read that no one goes to concerts anymore? what are you fat americans doing?
We're on vacation on some tropical island just like every other summer.
The real question is why aren't any of these fucking canadian tourists here in the states on holiday buying any concert tickets? Or did Alanis and the Bare Naked Ladies sell out too fast fer ya, heh?
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Seriously? Even with all those bands, $40 - $60 just wasn't worth it. I would've loved to have seen Broken Social Scene, Sonic Youth again, Morrisey, and a few others, but reading the initial article, if Lolla tickets were "$15 - $25," How the hell did they get to be $40 - $60?
I'm not extraordinarily old, but I still don't ever remember paying more than $25 for a ticket to any festival type show. How are such heavy surcharges justified?
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Originally posted by Lamb007:
PJ Harvey and Sonic Youth on the same day would make it worth traffic and parking all by themselves. The new and improved Merriweather deserves good shows like this. Maybe the ever ambitious Mr. Hurwitz can cobble together his own Merriweather festival.
The economics of a one-off concert, a concert stop on a multi-city tour, and a standing festival such as Coachella are different for everyone involved. It would be great if Seth could salvage something (after all, these acts all suddenly find themselves with open dates), but it's unlikely to be a Slice o' Palooza with the same acts at the same price on the same day at Merriweather Post.
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i've been hiding do to "some" crappy topics...
i'm goin to camp july 11-17...counselor flawd is going to mess up some kids....
i'm only going one week do to ozzfest and the camp sucking.
<img src="http://internettrash.com/users/therail/snoop-got-milk.gif" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://trooper.scifi-meshes.com/scrambled/graphire/beating.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://www.theforce.net/humor/episodei/pics/gotmilk.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
which doesn't account for Lollapalooza, because our tickets were priced between $15 and $25. Maybe it's the sundry add-ons [like service charges] that up the cost?
yeah. $25??? I paid $102.50 for my TWO tickets.
25+25=102.50? sounds like Radiohead math to me. [/b]
Yeah, I definitely paid the same for two one-day tickets. They were $40 each, NOT $25 each. Regardless, $40 is good when there were six bands that I really wanted to see and would have gone (I guess, will go) to see in six individual shows (which will end up costing far more than $40). And Ticketbastard isn't refunding their stupid service charge.
I was really looking forward to this damn thing.
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The news is definitely a disappointment. I am convinced that Jaguar is right. The prime audience/attendees didn't buy tickets because either they couldn't get off work or weren't sure they could. I really hope some of the bands will tour anyway. BRMC and Morrissey, please!
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Originally posted by j_lee:
Seriously? Even with all those bands, $40 - $60 just wasn't worth it. I would've loved to have seen Broken Social Scene, Sonic Youth again, Morrisey, and a few others, but reading the initial article, if Lolla tickets were "$15 - $25," How the hell did they get to be $40 - $60?
I'm not extraordinarily old, but I still don't ever remember paying more than $25 for a ticket to any festival type show. How are such heavy surcharges justified?
Just paying to see the Von Bondies, Broken Social Scene, The Walkmen, TV on the Radio, The Thrills, Wheat, and The Fire Theat at a low end $10 cover at the Black Cat is $70. So It's a still a bargin. As it's been pointed out by the likes of The Shins, etc... Being "indie" dosen't mean a band has to be poor too. Bands want to make more than gas money when they tour these days. Just higher gas prices alone is going to make any multiband tour cost more to mount. I wonder how many other Lollapalooza dates were GA and if people were planning on buying tickets the day of the show.
And I'm glad the show opened in the late afternoon verses the evening. It meant that people would be arriving through out the day verses just in the middle of rush hour like it will be for the Cure show. Which could easily turn into a another Radiohead fiasco, especially since it's on a Friday night when traffic is absolutely the worst during the summer.
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when the show was announced, there were threads blasting it
now that it's cancelled, there are threads complaining about that
sounds like a bunch of unhappy people to me
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The only thing I'm really unhappy about is the Ticketbastard giving a "refund" but not giving me back the $3.50 per ticket, plus the $4.00 handling fee. What is hilarious is that I got a call from them last night at home, essentially thanking me for letting them rob me. Fuckers. And to top it off, I used Ticketfast this time so it's not like it cost them anything to print the ticket and send it to me. Whatever. I was really looking forward to this, but shows get cancelled. Shit happens. I would rather have this get cancelled than the Pixies tour, which I am going to see as much as possible later this year.
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Lollapalooza Canceled; Alt-Rock Tour Organizers Cite 'Unhappy People'
Local Promoter Suggests 'Shrek 2' as Alternative
By David Segal
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, June 23, 2004; Page C01
Plagued with lousy ticket sales, this year's Lollapalooza tour was canceled yesterday, unplugging the best-known alternative rock festival in the country.
Organizers of the show, which originally came to life in 1991, said they would have lost millions if the tour went ahead as scheduled. Headliners were to include Morrissey, the Flaming Lips, the String Cheese Incident and the Pixies, with the bands performing over the course of two days. The tour was to kick off July 14 in Auburn, Wash., and more than 30 shows in 16 cities -- including a local stop at Merriweather Post Pavilion on Aug. 12 and 13 -- were slated.
"I'm in utter disbelief that a concert of this stature, with the most exciting lineup I've seen in years, did not galvanize ticket sales," said Mark Geiger, co-founder of the tour, in a press release. "I'm surprised, given the great bands and the reduced ticket prices, that we didn't have enough sales to sustain the tour."
One-day tickets for lawn seats were priced as low as $15, before assorted add-ons and service fees. At the upper end, a two-day ticket for reserved seats at the Denver show, for instance, ran for $80.
Other tours have struggled to fill seats, among them Ozzfest and reunion tours by Fleetwood Mac, the Cure and the Dead. But every summer there are stragglers, and every summer at least a few promoters will declare this summer the worst in memory. Plenty of artists, as it happens, have been selling out venues by the dozens, among them Prince, Madonna and double bills, like the one featuring No Doubt and Blink-182.
Lollapalooza's troubles might have more to do with musical trends than the health of the concert industry, says promoter Seth Hurwitz, who had booked the now-canceled show at Merriweather.
"It's genuinely an alternative-music problem," Hurwitz says. "The audience for true alternative rock just isn't that big anymore. Lollapalooza was big in the early '90s, when the scene was exploding, when you had bands like Pearl Jam and Nirvana, and it was something new and truly alternative. Now you turn on the TV and everyone is pierced. I saw 'Shrek 2' the other day, and there's scene in it where one of the characters crowd-surfs."
Also, multi-act shows are tough sells these days, Hurwitz added, because fans know they'll get a truncated set by their favorite performer. Morrissey, the former lead singer of the Smiths, who has just released his first solo album in several years, packed a bunch of mid-size auditoriums in a recent solo tour. But those fans might be unwilling to commit to a day at Lollapalooza, which can seem a little grueling by the time the marquee names hit the stage.
Yesterday's cancellation ends what had been a modestly successful comeback for Lollapalooza, which had been retired for six years before returning to the road in 2003. Some of last year's shows were canceled, but there were many successes, and tellingly, the lineup was more heavily weighted toward acts that were selling millions of albums -- like Audioslave, the closer -- than bands considered alternative.
There weren't a lot of platinum-status acts on the bill this time around. Groups with avid but relatively small followings, like Le Tigre, Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, Modest Mouse and Wilco, were the heart of the production. Had it happened, the concert would have hewed closer to the original, out-of-the-mainstream spirit of Lollapalooza. But that spirit, apparently, isn't what it used to be.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62545-2004Jun22.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62545-2004Jun22.html)
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Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
when the show was announced, there were threads blasting it
now that it's cancelled, there are threads complaining about that
sounds like a bunch of unhappy people to me
http://www.930.com/cgi-bin/ubb-cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006467;p=1 (http://www.930.com/cgi-bin/ubb-cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006467;p=1)
looks like the people you would expect to complain were complaining when it was announced (except for sonick who is complaining on both threads :D )
we had tickets and wanted to go to the show, why shouldn't we be unhappy it was cancelled, eh?
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Seth Hurwitz, our hero, hit a really good point. I would go to just about any club or mid-size venue to see a Morrissey show, but not necessarily an all-day music fest. It's just too much, and I see too many great club shows to be dazzled by short, outdoor sets. Hmmm... Yet I'm going to Curiosa. I think that's because I'm not all that in to the Cure, and have an interest in catching the other bands but I see it as kind of a hanging out night (and, I had several friends who jumped on Curiosa, while no one I know did on Lollapalooza -- the Lolla bands are those I know we'd see in a club at some point, so I was waiting to see if anyone wanted to go last minute and if I could take a day off from work at that point.)
And, maybe if the Pixies had been on every bill....
From the NYTimes article:
Mr. Geiger said ticket sales had been uneven around the country, with relatively strong sales for the Aug. 16 and 17 concerts at Randalls Island in New York, where the Pixies were to make one of their only two appearances on the tour.
But in many markets, the concerts were said to have sales not much higher than one of the headlining acts might have drawn on its own.
And Seth in the Times article:
Seth Hurwitz, an independent promoter in Washington who booked Lollapalooza into the Merriweather Post Pavilion in Columbia, Md., said that there was waning interest in aging alternative rock acts like the ones on the Lollapalooza tour.
"How well is Morrissey going to do in the Midwest?" he said. "I wouldn't venture to guess. The problem is that there is just not a really large interest in alternative music. What was called alternative in the 90's was exploding with something new, with Pearl Jam and Nirvana. It was exciting stuff."
Mr. Hurwitz said many of his concerts, including those by younger acts like Evanescence and Three Doors Down, were selling well.
"They tried to pull together Morrissey and Sonic Youth," he said, on an alternative bill. "But there are not enough people who care about it."
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Ville Valo or David Bowie? (http://www.helsinginsanomat.fi/english/article/1076153068125)
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Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
when the show was announced, there were threads blasting it
now that it's cancelled, there are threads complaining about that
sounds like a bunch of unhappy people to me
Thats the funny thing about this board Seth, everyone's so hypocrital.
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Originally posted by Rob_Gee_a.k.a _Guiny:
Thats the funny thing about this board Seth, everyone's so hypocrital.
care to give some examples
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Originally posted by Bagalicious Tangster:
the Lolla bands are those I know we'd see in a club at some point
"at some point" being within the last 6 months or so. The Walkmen, Broken Social Scene, The Thrills, TV On The Radio, Le Tigre, and probably some of the others have played in tiny clubs around here very recently. As great a bill as this looks on paper, there's no sense of urgency to see most of these bands, as they just rolled through town not too long ago.
Great lineups - not so great timing.
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Originally posted by pollard:
Originally posted by Rob_Gee_a.k.a _Guiny:
Thats the funny thing about this board Seth, everyone's so hypocrital.
care to give some examples [/b]
Unlike you, I don't have the time to memorize every word that everyone types on here. So no my friend (and I use that word loosely) I don't have examples. But read most of the posts and I'm sure you can find something by everyone (Including myself for I am sure I've contradicted myself one or two times).
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Originally posted by Rob_Gee_a.k.a _Guiny:
Unlike you, I don't have the time to memorize every word that everyone types on here. So no my friend (and I use that word loosely) I don't have examples. But read most of the posts and I'm sure you can find something by everyone (Including myself for I am sure I've contradicted myself one or two times).
I don't think it is the time you are lacking
just try and remember that each of those names next to a post means it is another person like you sitting at a computer, wasting our time, and we don't all meet to decide what we are going to say on the board, we did not all complain when Lollapalooza was annouced, we did not all complain when it was cancelled
you can try and use this new knowledge in your politics as well, for instance, not everybody who disagrees with the president or the war hates America, we are not out to take your freedom or your liberty
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Well I am glad I had bought my tickets.
I am glad it wasnt the couple of tickets I didnt buy that caused the shows to be cancelled.
I am also glad that now I dont have to see sonic youth or Morrissey or hear the new Gomez album, live.
I am glad I dont have to take a couple of days of work.
Is that all sounding more positive?
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First of all....who taught flawd how to post pics? :D
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Originally posted by mark e smith:
Well I am glad I had bought my tickets.
I am glad it wasnt the couple of tickets I didnt buy that caused the shows to be cancelled.
I am also glad that now I dont have to see sonic youth or Morrissey or hear the new Gomez album, live.
I am glad I dont have to take a couple of days of work.
Is that all sounding more positive?
I thought you hated Moz?
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Have I shared with my fellow boardies the Modest Mouse curse?
Here's how it goes: I'm destined to NEVER see Modest Mouse.
I had tix for the nYC show earlier this year, but was too sleepy to do the one night drive, and sold 'em under the assumption they'd play DC. Which they didn't do, opting for a crappy Florida tour instead.
Then they played HFS, which is a definite NO to me, plus, I thought I'd see them at Lolla.
Then they cancelled Lolla.
I'd buy tickets for Austin City Limits, but hell, with my track record, it just ain't happening.
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Originally posted by Rob_Gee_a.k.a _Guiny:
Thats the funny thing about this board Seth, everyone's so hypocrital.
No entry found for hypocrital.
Did you mean hypocritely?
Suggestions:
hypocritely
hypocritical
hypocrite
hypocrites
hypocritic
hypocotyl
hypocrite's
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by mark e smith:
I am also glad that now I dont have to see sonic youth or Morrissey or hear the new Gomez album, live.
I thought you hated Moz? [/b]
Comprehension?
I am glad I do not have to see him.....
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Originally posted by vansmack:
The real question is why aren't any of these fucking canadian tourists here in the states on holiday buying any concert tickets? [/b]
My friends from Philly and NYC, etc. would come down if it were on the weekend. They did for hfstival.
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Originally posted by mark e smith:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by mark e smith:
I am also glad that now I dont have to see sonic youth or Morrissey or hear the new Gomez album, live.
I thought you hated Moz? [/b]
Comprehension?
I am glad I do not have to see him..... [/b]
So you're glad you're going to miss Moz, Sonic Youth and the Gomez album live, even though you bought a ticket for this show.
I thought you were just being sarcastic, now I reaize you're just an idiot!
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Originally posted by poorlulu:
Originally posted by Rob_Gee_a.k.a _Guiny:
Thats the funny thing about this board Seth, everyone's so hypocrital.
No entry found for hypocrital.
Did you mean hypocritely?
Suggestions:
hypocritely
hypocritical
hypocrite
hypocrites
hypocritic
hypocotyl
hypocrite's [/b]
I'll go with #2 please. :D
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Originally posted by pollard:
(except for sonick who is complaining on both threads :D )
i only complained when the lineup first was posted, and it was just a few bands each day.
all of which besides Sonic Youth and BRMC sucked. once the full lineup was posted i decided to go (for one day)
has anyone stated that the ticket sales were slow cause NO ONE LIKES MORRISSEY.
sure he sold out shows in LA and NYC but those places do not reflect the entire country.
oh, and the quasi hippie fans (ones who would like String Cheese) have like 20 other festivals to go to this summmer.
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There were plenty of other acts I was interested in seeing...
Flaming lips, Von Bodies, BRMC, elbow, Sparta.
All come straight to mind. But that is the point of a festival, from a bands perspective, right? Its a bands big chance to get fans of other bands to see them live and convert them into new fans.
And as a fan its a chance to see bands you would not normally see.
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I FOUND THIS!
http://www.blacktable.com/gallagher040623.htm (http://www.blacktable.com/gallagher040623.htm)
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If NO ONE LIKES MORRISSEY, then why did his new album debut at #11 on the billboard charts. Nothing against Sonic Youth or BRMC (both good bands) but they couldn't sell that many records.
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Originally posted by mark e smith:
And as a fan its a chance to see bands you would not normally see.
its VERY surprising to hear that from you, but that is always my good point for large shows.
sure they cost a little more, especially like Coachella and Austin City Limits, but how many bands did i see in the last two years at Coachella that i may have never bought a ticket just to see them, or even bought thier CD , but after seeing them "by chance" at Coachella, i have since bought CDs and gone to thier shows.
Ben Harper
Idlewild
Fischerspooner
Q and not U
!!!
Basement Jaxx
just to name a few. its a great point and its kind of interesting to see bands playing thier hearts out in front of 5 times as many people as they ever have, opposed to just another night in a bar.
I'll tell you this, anyone who thinks seeing a band at the 930 club or patriot center is the same as seeing them at Coachella or another festival, is just plain flat out wrong.
sorry bout all that, i got on a roll ;)
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while skeeter has a good point regarding time, for me it was a chance to catch up and see some bands i've missed for whatever reason. see what all the fuss was about... decide who i might want to see or avoid in the future. plus, i think shorter festival sets cause bands to trim the fat and play the "crowd" pleaser stuff.
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Originally posted by LonnieBeale:
If NO ONE LIKES MORRISSEY, then why did his new album debut at #11 on the billboard charts. Nothing against Sonic Youth or BRMC (both good bands) but they couldn't sell that many records.
HYPE. need i say more?
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by LonnieBeale:
If NO ONE LIKES MORRISSEY, then why did his new album debut at #11 on the billboard charts. Nothing against Sonic Youth or BRMC (both good bands) but they couldn't sell that many records.
HYPE. need i say more? [/b]
I dont know about this release, but traditionally Morrissey releases enter the charts very high up in the first week and then completely disappear by the second week.
Fans are fanatical, no one else cares.
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Originally posted by mark e smith:
But that is the point of a festival, from a bands perspective, right? Its a bands big chance to get fans of other bands to see them live and convert them into new fans.
So we must remember this for next year when everyone cries why their favorite bands are playing the street stage at the HFEstival.
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Originally posted by Rob_Gee_a.k.a _Guiny:
Originally posted by mark e smith:
But that is the point of a festival, from a bands perspective, right? Its a bands big chance to get fans of other bands to see them live and convert them into new fans.
So we must remember this for next year when everyone cries why their favorite bands are playing the street stage at the HFEstival. [/b]
well, thats going a bit far. he meant new bands, not Papa Roach and POD!
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by Rob_Gee_a.k.a _Guiny:
Originally posted by mark e smith:
But that is the point of a festival, from a bands perspective, right? Its a bands big chance to get fans of other bands to see them live and convert them into new fans.
So we must remember this for next year when everyone cries why their favorite bands are playing the street stage at the HFEstival. [/b]
well, thats going a bit far. he meant new bands, not Papa Roach and POD! [/b]
Modest Mouse and The Yeah Yeah Yeah's were there. They seem to be popular bands around here.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
has anyone stated that the ticket sales were slow cause NO ONE LIKES MORRISSEY.
sure he sold out shows in LA and NYC but those places do not reflect the entire country.
[/b]
That has got to be the most stupid statement ever posted on this message board, Rhett's included.
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plenty of people like morrisey. do they like him enough to take off work to see a truncated set? obviously not
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Evidently the Pixies reunion was the second coming of christ...so why the hell didn't they sellout lolla on their own?
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
has anyone stated that the ticket sales were slow cause NO ONE LIKES MORRISSEY.
sure he sold out shows in LA and NYC but those places do not reflect the entire country.
[/b]
That has got to be the most stupid statement ever posted on this message board, Rhett's included. [/b]
ok, some people still like him, but only old farts like you. and they dont want to sit at dirty pavilions and have to wait through other bands and what not.
Constitution Hall is the place for Morrissey.
bollocks to you.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Constitution Hall is the place for Morrissey.[/b]
More like some small smokey bar on Wilson BLVD. But since I've never seen him, I'd probably go.
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I'm a little bit surprised that no one (including Seth in his quotes in the paper, although I know he has to be couth for the papers and not bite the feeders in public) is accusing Lollapalooza of biting off more than it could chew.
This tour was dormant for six years, they have one good comeback year, and then they think they can bring Caochella to your doorstep and people will go? I mean, two days? This was the first year Coachella even sold out both days, and it took people to travel from all over the America's to sell it out and a Pixies reunion (without the news of a tour to follow at the time of ticket sales).
If I'm not mistaken, even the radio shows didn't do two day shows this year. I know KROQ only did a one day show.
So to blame the type of music the bands play is one thing, but at some point the organizers have to look at themselves and say, "hey, we made a mistake and thought we could do more than we were able to do."
I think paring down the bands and doing a one day show probably would have been the way to go (I know, hindsight is 20-20). But even when alternative rock was at its peak, the Pearl Jam/Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins/Beastie Boys Lolla's were only one day affairs.
So I think it's a bit unfair to only blame the type of music, though I am selling all my indie CDs to Amoeba right now and buying the billboard top 100 so this doesn't happen to me again.
What's that you say, Britney cancelled her tour too? When did she become alternative?
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
has anyone stated that the ticket sales were slow cause NO ONE LIKES MORRISSEY.
sure he sold out shows in LA and NYC but those places do not reflect the entire country.
[/b]
That has got to be the most stupid statement ever posted on this message board, Rhett's included. [/b]
ok, some people still like him, but only old farts like you. and they dont want to sit at dirty pavilions and have to wait through other bands and what not.
Constitution Hall is the place for Morrissey.
bollocks to you. [/b]
Why are people like you trying to blame the whole failure of LL on Moz? I'm not defending him at all, but for crying out loud, all these other AWSOME BANDS THAT RAWK DUDE... that were in the lineup are not selling tickets either.
...and if Moz sells out LA and NY and is a huge draw for Glastonbury, then maybe the 'rest of the country' needs to realize there's a reason why.
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
has anyone stated that the ticket sales were slow cause NO ONE LIKES MORRISSEY.
sure he sold out shows in LA and NYC but those places do not reflect the entire country.
[/b]
That has got to be the most stupid statement ever posted on this message board, Rhett's included. [/b]
ok, some people still like him, but only old farts like you. and they dont want to sit at dirty pavilions and have to wait through other bands and what not.
Constitution Hall is the place for Morrissey.
bollocks to you. [/b]
I doubt ONE act caused everyone to refrain from buying a ticket and thus cancelling the tour. However, I am an old fart. I couldn't purchase a ticket until I could confirm the day off from work. It sucks to be an adult.
Separately, it seems that people take their time to buy tickets around here (the old farts). I know they mention sales lacking in other cities, but I wonder if this is a trend in this area?
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
Evidently the Pixies reunion was the second coming of christ...so why the hell didn't they sellout lolla on their own?
Pixies were just in NYC, and that show was selling well.
This tour did not work because there was no really strong headliner, period. There is not a problem with attendance at "Alternative" shows generally (just look at all of the sold out shows at the 9:30), there is a problem with weak line-ups and week-day/work-day festivals.
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
...and if Moz sells out LA and NY and is a huge draw for Glastonbury, then maybe the 'rest of the country' needs to realize there's a reason why.
There are lots of homosexuals, or abstainees as Morrisseys likes to be known, in all of those places?
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Originally posted by pond:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Evidently the Pixies reunion was the second coming of christ...so why the hell didn't they sellout lolla on their own?
Pixies were just in NYC, and that show was selling well.
This tour did not work because there was no really strong headliner, period. There is not a problem with attendance at "Alternative" shows generally (just look at all of the sold out shows at the 9:30), there is a problem with weak line-ups and week-day/work-day festivals. [/b]
Excuse me....selling out in NYC, or LA for that matter, doesn't mean shit...does it Sonick?
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[/qb][/QUOTE]I doubt ONE act caused everyone to refrain from buying a ticket and thus cancelling the tour. However, I am an old fart. I couldn't purchase a ticket until I could confirm the day off from work. It sucks to be an adult.
Separately, it seems that people take their time to buy tickets around here (the old farts). I know they mention sales lacking in other cities, but I wonder if this is a trend in this area? [/QB][/QUOTE
>>>>>> This mentions that "trend"
http://www.blacktable.com/gallagher040623.htm (http://www.blacktable.com/gallagher040623.htm)
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Originally posted by mark e smith:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
...and if Moz sells out LA and NY and is a huge draw for Glastonbury, then maybe the 'rest of the country' needs to realize there's a reason why.
There are lots of homosexuals, or abstainees as Morrisseys likes to be known, in all of those places? [/b]
Not meaning to correct you in front of your friends, but Moz's most recent fan base has grown out of the Mexican community. I don't think he's ever been that big a draw with the gay crowd. Well, apart from that time you jumped on stage to hug him.
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
Excuse me....selling out in NYC, or LA for that matter, doesn't mean shit...does it Sonick?
I think the organisers were inferring that the pixies Lolla was selling well becausese the pixies were going. Do you think if the pixies were doing all the dates Lolla might have sold more tickets?
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Originally posted by mark e smith:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Excuse me....selling out in NYC, or LA for that matter, doesn't mean shit...does it Sonick?
I think the organisers were inferring that the pixies Lolla was selling well becausese the pixies were going. Do you think if the pixies were doing all the dates Lolla might have sold more tickets? [/b]
>>>That's a true statement.....I think sales would have been up.....but maybe not to the break even point even with them on the tour...
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
but Moz's most recent fan base has grown out of the Mexican community
Yeah, your right. The Spanish orientated music store on Columbia, in Adams Morgan, is plastered with pictues of the big quiffed one. I here you are the quarry being blasted from its giant speakers all the time. :roll:
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Originally posted by mark e smith:
[QB] There were plenty of other acts I was interested in seeing...
Flaming lips, Von Bodies, BRMC, elbow, Sparta.
well, good to know sparta had dropped the tour. they picked up the incubus tour. maybe not a favorite move for fans, but smart in their mind.
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Originally posted by The O' Rotten Factor:
I doubt ONE act caused everyone to refrain from buying a ticket and thus cancelling the tour. However, I am an old fart. I couldn't purchase a ticket until I could confirm the day off from work. It sucks to be an adult.
Separately, it seems that people take their time to buy tickets around here (the old farts). I know they mention sales lacking in other cities, but I wonder if this is a trend in this area? [/QB][/QUOTE
>>>>>> This mentions that "trend"
http://www.blacktable.com/gallagher040623.htm (http://www.blacktable.com/gallagher040623.htm) [/QB][/QUOTE]Yeah, I read that article earlier. Thanks for posting. I could relate to some of what she said. I have noted this "trend" when I've had to work shows...just wondered if others noted the same...I dunno, it's all a tough call. In this area, it's surprising that shows during the week sell out, then come the weekend, I'm standing with crickets. I guess that people go away for the weekend or catch up w/ friends and family, thus deciding on shows at the last minute.
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
...and if Moz sells out LA and NY and is a huge draw for Glastonbury, then maybe the 'rest of the country' needs to realize there's a reason why. [/QB]
I'm sure Blink 182 and Creed (When they were still together) sold out shows in LA and NYC also, does that mean the whole country needs to realize there's a reason why with them also? GOD I hope not!!!!!!!!!!
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IMHO the weak headliner was The String Cheese Incident as their fans are the most likely to be the ones disappointed with a shorten set and probably could give a rats asre about the rest of day two. It's also a case of bad-timing seeing as Phish is wrapping up their last dates as a band at the same of the dc dates.
So they probably need some of the caliber of the Foo Fighters or Pixies as the headliner. The Stooges would have been a coup as well.
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Originally posted by chimbly sweep:
Have I shared with my fellow boardies the Modest Mouse curse?
Here's how it goes: I'm destined to NEVER see Modest Mouse.
I had tix for the nYC show earlier this year, but was too sleepy to do the one night drive, and sold 'em under the assumption they'd play DC. Which they didn't do, opting for a crappy Florida tour instead.
Then they played HFS, which is a definite NO to me, plus, I thought I'd see them at Lolla.
Then they cancelled Lolla.
I'd buy tickets for Austin City Limits, but hell, with my track record, it just ain't happening.
DRIVE? Wouldn't it be less selfish and evil to take the train?
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yes, to respond to mankie and a lot of others,
what i meant by Morrissey (i refuse to call him Moz, cause why do you do that?) being the big part of Lolla failure is cause HE is the headliner!!!!! If Radiohead wasnt playing thier ONLY US appearance in 2004 the same night as the Pixies reunion with no clear tour in site (as vansmack stated) Coachella wouldnt have sold out.
point is , Lollapalooza gets a more fitting festival headliner, it will have a chance.
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Originally posted by keithstg:
DRIVE? Wouldn't it be less selfish and evil to take the train? [/b]
You're right, thank you very much for pointing this out. But it was determined that el coche was the only way to get from work (5pm) to the show and then back to work again the next morning-- based on review of amtrak and bus schedules.
but note, didn't end up doing the drive anyway
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I guess my question is, then why does something like Coachella (not cheap) draw people from all over the place? Lollapalooza had a pretty phenomenal line-up...not as big as Coachella, but hey, I thought it was pretty decent. It was hard to say no to Lolla's ticket price. I know that some of us are getting older, but it really makes me question then, what are the people who listened to Pearl Jam and Nirvana listening to now? Are they listening to music at all? I actually know a lot of people that are just not as into music now compared to when they were younger, but it makes me question if they were ever passionate about it to begin with. It's tough to keep up sometimes with a lot of the newer bands, it takes work. I dunno. I scratch my head because clearly there is an audience out there. When you have 50,000 people singing along to the Pixies, and 12 years ago you would have NEVER have gotten that number, I guess it makes me question Seth's comments a little bit. A band like Radiohead, which sells out 20,000 seat arenas in the U.S. is hardly accessible. So there is an audience there. I would venture to guess that the average Radiohead fan owns at least one record by the Smiths, Sonic Youth, PJ Harvey, or the Flaming Lips...and a very good chance they own a lot more. Anyway, I guess I have a lot of unanswered questions. There is more to the Lolla thing than people just not being into alternative music anymore...maybe we're just getting older and we've already seen those bands enough (I've seen Morrissey twice, Sonic Youth about 8 times, and PJ Harvey 3 times), and the thought of an all-day outdoor venue isn't conducive to bands like Sonic Youth and PJ Harvey. Perhaps we'd rather see them in a more intimate venue where we can drink our beers, smoke and view them in the kind of setting we're happier in. Who knows.
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Originally posted by chimbly sweep:
work again the next morning
You work?
You pathetic proletariat pawn. If you grew all your own produce and lived in a commune you could have walked to the show and back.
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Originally posted by bunnyman:
I guess my question is, then why does something like Coachella (not cheap) draw people from all over the place?
It had radiohead.
It was a one off show.
Vs
No big name multi-platinum selling headliner
A series of how many shows? 6 or 8?
Obviously people travelled coast to coast for coachella, there was no need to do that for lolla.
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Originally posted by chimbly sweep:
Originally posted by keithstg:
DRIVE? Wouldn't it be less selfish and evil to take the train? [/b]
You're right, thank you very much for pointing this out. But it was determined that el coche was the only way to get from work (5pm) to the show and then back to work again the next morning-- based on review of amtrak and bus schedules.
but note, didn't end up doing the drive anyway [/b]
And it better be a wind driven train at that!
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I would generally agree that a disaffected Mancunian crooner wouldn't sell well in Middle America, but then a funny thing happened.
Coming back to the office this afternoon, I passed a minivan with Tennessee plates and a bumper sticker that said "WWMD?" and had a picture of the Miserable One.
Who knew?
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Originally posted by ggwâ?˘:
Coming back to the office this afternoon, I passed a minivan with Tennessee plates and a bumper sticker that said "WWMD?" and had a picture of the Miserable One.
Who knew?
Are you really sure it wasnt a picture of Elvis?
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Originally posted by mark e smith:
Originally posted by ggwâ?˘:
Coming back to the office this afternoon, I passed a minivan with Tennessee plates and a bumper sticker that said "WWMD?" and had a picture of the Miserable One.
Who knew?
Are you really sure it wasnt a picture of Elvis? [/b]
Then he'd have to be called MELVIS!
:roll:
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Originally posted by mark e smith:
Originally posted by chimbly sweep:
work again the next morning
You work?
[/b]
I bet she works for the dmv!!!
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
Then he'd have to be called MELVIS!
:roll:
Elvis= the King
What Would (his) Majesty Do
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :
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Originally posted by mark e smith:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Then he'd have to be called MELVIS!
:roll:
Elvis= the King
What Would (his) Majesty Do
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: : [/b]
But then the sticker would have to say
WW(h)MD
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
But then the sticker would have to say
WW(h)MD
too ugly. They never include little words like that in acronyms, do they SAD TWAT?
You were in the special armoured division fighting the war against terrorism, right?
Maybe it was What Would Memphis Do?
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Originally posted by mark e smith:
SAD TWAT?
[/b]
There you go.....I hadn't irked you in a while so thought you might be missing me! ;)
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by mark e smith:
Originally posted by chimbly sweep:
work again the next morning
You work?
[/b]
I bet she works for the dmv!!! [/b]
eh heh hem...
let me clear up a couple misconceptions...
yes, i work.
no, i don't work for the dmv.
yes, i have a sense of humor.
yes, i live in a common abode, wired with the modern electric light and hot and cold water.
no, i don't grow my own food, though i do get a farm share from Jug Bay Farm (http://home.earthlink.net/~jugbaymg/)weekly.
no, i wasn't on the grassy knoll and, in fact, hadn't been born yet.
now, back to the Coachella/Lolla thing.
I went to Coachella for the experience-- so many great bands, camping in the desert, the art, the film fest, the bands, and did i mention the bands. I went because I knew I wouldn't see Radiohead again this year and because other bands were in that category too. The Pixies hadn't announced the full reunion tour yet, either, so I was unsure whether I'd see them elsewhere.
Lolla, on the other hand, is in the suburbs. No camping. Bands who tour regularly, or that will be back later, etc. And let's face it, the name Lollapalooza is associated with Nirvana and Pearl Jam, not with bands like the Pixies. It's possible that they would have had more luck selling tickets if they had come up with a new name.
Except for that Modest Mouse curse. Grumble.
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by mark e smith:
SAD TWAT?
[/b]
There you go.....I hadn't irked you in a while so thought you might be missing me! ;) [/b]
Thanks!
Actually I had been meaning to ask you about one of your customers.... He keeps buying furniture from Lulu....
-
Lollapalooza's troubles might have more to do with musical trends than the health of the concert industry, says promoter Seth Hurwitz, who had booked the now-canceled show at Merriweather.
"It's genuinely an alternative-music problem," Hurwitz says. "The audience for true alternative rock just isn't that big anymore. Lollapalooza was big in the early '90s, when the scene was exploding, when you had bands like Pearl Jam and Nirvana, and it was something new and truly alternative. Now you turn on the TV and everyone is pierced. I saw 'Shrek 2' the other day, and there's scene in it where one of the characters crowd-surfs."
That's one of tour problem they had last year, and they had this year. Other than the ticket prices, Alternative music has nothing new to offer. Not only that, other music genres like pop, hip-hop, modern rock and metal has taken over the music spectrum.
If the tour was targeting fans under 21, The tickets prices should under $25. IN addition, the 2 day event should been on a Saturday and Sunday or Friday and Saturday insted of the middle of the week.
They should have planned this tour much better.
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Originally posted by mark e smith:
Originally posted by Bollocks:
Originally posted by mark e smith:
SAD TWAT?
[/b]
There you go.....I hadn't irked you in a while so thought you might be missing me! ;) [/b]
Thanks!
Actually I had been meaning to ask you about one of your customers.... He keeps buying furniture from Lulu.... [/b]
A current customer or one of the "I hate that creepy mini sales manager in Arlington" club?
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And let's face it, the name Lollapalooza is associated with Nirvana and Pearl Jam, not with bands like the Pixies. It's possible that they would have had more luck selling tickets if they had come up with a new name.
Now that is just plain silly.
Although, I do like the off-shoot name "Slice O'Palooza". A slice is nice.
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Originally posted by Sugartastic Tee Silk:
And let's face it, the name Lollapalooza is associated with Nirvana and Pearl Jam, not with bands like the Pixies. It's possible that they would have had more luck selling tickets if they had come up with a new name.
Now that is just plain silly.
Although, I do like the off-shoot name "Slice O'Palooza". A slice is nice. [/b]
Mozzapolooza!
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Originally posted by Bollocks:
A current customer
Yep, I saw his silver car with temp tags about three weeks ago...
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Originally posted by RonniStar:
IN addition, the 2 day event should been on a Saturday and Sunday or Friday and Saturday insted of the middle of the week.
You can't realistically schedule an entire tour for weekends-only. There were plenty of weekend dates on this tour.
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What do you consider "alternative music" and how does it differ from "modern rock?" Seems like two names for the same thing.
Originally posted by RonniStar:
Alternative music has nothing new to offer. Not only that, other music genres like pop, hip-hop, modern rock and metal has taken over the music spectrum.
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Originally posted by nkotbie:
What do you consider "alternative music" and how does it differ from "modern rock?" Seems like two names for the same thing.
[/QB][/QUOTE]
How about the bands that were going to play Lolla as alternative, maybe indie...
the shite they play on HFS as modern rock, I dont listen very often, but I suspect Creed, Limp, Nickleback and Evanessence along with the worst of all Linkin Park.
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Originally posted by Skeeter:
Originally posted by RonniStar:
IN addition, the 2 day event should been on a Saturday and Sunday or Friday and Saturday insted of the middle of the week.
You can't realistically schedule an entire tour for weekends-only. There were plenty of weekend dates on this tour. [/b]
I used to work with a sharkhead/knobhead/parrothead, or whatever it is Buffet fans call themselves. He told me his tours are planned so that he ONLY plays Thu/Fri/Sat shows....is that right?
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A quick TicketMaster check shows Buffet shows on Sun, Tue, Thur, Fri and Sat.
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Although I didn't emphasize the point very well, that's sort of what I was getting at. There is such a huge lack of unity as far as rock music goes, that a festival like this seems bound to lose interest nowadays.
Lollapalooza doesnt' have the scope that Coachella did to represent several subgenres at once (electronic, indie, underground hip hop, etc.) At shows like that, almost everyone has their own little worlds to enjoy their own little things. Throwing bands like Sonic Youth and Morrissey together seems counter-productive to establishing a theme. And it's not enough of a diverse line-up or area to seperate this enough that everyone that likes "underground" music can get the fill of what they like.
For everyone of us that was psyched about the diversity of the line-up, I'd be 20 people were scoffing at paying money to see certain acts. I can't stand Morrissey, but hey, attached to a Sonic Youth show, yeah I'd check him out. I can't imagine that many fans of Morrissey's brand of mopey rock (and that's not a put-down) would really dig a noise jam by Sonic Youth.
Lollapalooza was great when it started, because they mainly stuck to one style, even if that varied each year. The first year definitely stuck to more hardrock bands (Butthole Surfers, Rollins, NIN, Jane's). As they went on, they focused more on alternative music on the radio (Pixies, Pavement, Beasties, Smashing Pumpkins).
This was probably the most diverse line-up they've ever had (in my opinion), and while it's a great idea for a handful, it's not going to get the mass appeal that it used to. Plus, it's probably just too big for it's britches nowadays. I cant' imagine the first tour made much money, but then again, they didn't have any expectations. But to come out of the gate with a 2-day festival after so many years of abscence, what can they expect?
Originally posted by mark e smith:
Originally posted by nkotbie:
What do you consider "alternative music" and how does it differ from "modern rock?" Seems like two names for the same thing.
[/b]
How about the bands that were going to play Lolla as alternative, maybe indie...
the shite they play on HFS as modern rock, I dont listen very often, but I suspect Creed, Limp, Nickleback and Evanessence along with the worst of all Linkin Park. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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Originally posted by nkotbie:
What do you consider "alternative music" and how does it differ from "modern rock?" Seems like two names for the same thing.
When I say alternative, I mean bands that don't get too much airplay on radio and/or music video channels. It can also include bands with cult followings.
Take a look at this year's Ozzfest, bands like Lamb of God, Lacuna Coil, God Forbid, Unearth, Darkest Hour, Bleeding Through, etc. would classified as "Alternative Metal." R&B acts like Jazzy Fatnastees, Res, Les Nubians, Jill Scott, etc. would classed "Alternative R&B." Jurassic Park, Dead Prez, Diluated Peoples, Dizzee Rascal and The Streets would be called "Alternative Hip-Hop." Hope that answers your question.
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modern rock is "rock" music that has been created in the last decade or whatever, thus the word modern. its kinda like rap calls its "classic rock" old school rap. and its modern rock is called hip-hop.
i think the word alternative is complete bullshit now in the music seen.
whfs and everyone uses it so it can't be an alternative. unless it means the it is the alternative to the mainstream music....which music described as alternative is now re-entering the mainstream in an "evolved" form. evolved is another bullshit music terms that is just a fancy way of saying the bands new album sounds different.
i wonder if that made sense????
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I'd say Alternative is now far more meaningful as marketing lingo than as a genre of music (which many of us believe it never was). Remember when the record stores had "alternative" sections? ugh.
now, alternative is used to market products that are "edgy" - young, nonconformist, but safe. As in, Mountain Dew is the alternative to cola. It's a great way to tap that 13-21 market.
(I particularly enjoyed being at a convention where the logo printed on the coffee cups said "the choice among the many alternatives." What the hell did that mean?)
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Originally posted by flawd101:
modern rock is "rock" music that has been created in the last decade or whatever, thus the word modern.
I disagree. "Modern" often refers to a specific period within the arts. In visual art and literature, it's generally the 1920s -1960s as new approaches were developed (James Joyce, Virgnia Woolf, T.S. Eliot in lit; Kandinsky, Duchamp, Dali, Picasso for visual art). Post '60s is generally considered "contemporary" when you're talking time period but not style.
I buy that it's not quite so cut and dried for music, as the "modern rock" period is probably the late 80s, early 90s. ???
God knows we've debated this before and we could go on forever, but still, I think Alternative, Indie, Modern Rock do refer to particular types of music...
Can't wait to see who mocks me. Rhett's on vaca, so go for it...sorry, I love this stuff! ;)
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No mocking here, but I don't really agree with some of your points.
The visual arts go back hundreds, if not 2000+ years. Relatively speaking, the 20th century is fairly modern.
As far as rock music goes, we're really only talking about 50 years. To go back 20+ years and still call something "modern rock" doesn't seem right.
"Alternative" lost all meaning in the late 80's. HFS is still calling itself "The True Alternative", while playing the same stuff I can hear on DC101 or MTV all day long. The category has become so broad, it doesn't mean anything anymore.
"Indie" is heading fast in the same direction. It no longer has anything to do with the size of your label or DIY ethic, but rather it's just another way of saying "we haven't had a big hit yet."
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My whole point to this was to suggest that, while RonniStar was saying that "Alternative music has nothing new to offer," it's all in how you define it. Nowadays, if going by what HFS tells us, the "alternative" is nu-metal (Linkin Park, Incubus), mall punk (New Found Glory, Dashboard Confessional), 80's alterna-stars (Morrissey, the Cure), and what is considered modern indie rock (The Hives, Modest Mouse). Just look at their play-list (http://www.whfs.com/most_played.php).
To blame this festival on alternative rock being stale is absurd, because there was a fairly good line-up of diverse acts on this tour, who are all still producing exciting music. Even the older acts just put out critically acclaimed albums. I'm still sticking with the fact that it was too diverse for a casual summer-concert goer.
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Let me clarify just a bit, since I confused myself. Obviously, the tour isn't diverse in that the range of music is wide-reaching. It's still all indie/alternative/whatever. But that's part of the allure/curse of the type of music we generall listen to: it's all lumped together because it's tough to lump anywhere else. Saying indie is easier than saying anything else.
Look at most other genres of music. Most hip hop sounds fundamentally the same, as does most modern country, most R&B, most rock, etc. But drawing comparisons between Morrissey, the String Cheese Incident, Sonic Youth, Wolf Eyes, Modest Mouse, BRMC, etc., etc. is pretty damn tough. And a regular listener of HFS that hears BRMC most likely isn't goign to be down with Morrissey, who's fans aren't goign to be down with Sonic Youth, and so on.
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Originally posted by Skeeter:
No mocking here, but I don't really agree with some of your points.
The visual arts go back hundreds, if not 2000+ years. Relatively speaking, the 20th century is fairly modern.
I hear you. I did note that I don't think it's quite so clear for music as for art or literature, but I do think that a term like Modern Rock gets to a genre, though what that genre is seems to blur. But in answer to Flawd's point, it does *not* mean "current" rock...
I think what we'll find for music is that in 50 years these categories will be more meaningful and clear. They'll actually refer to specific types of music and particular artists.
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Could it be that Lollapalooza is actually getting back to it's roots by being a truly "alternative" festival? Bringing in lots of really good acts that the casual music fan isn't familiar with?
That's fantastic news for the more serious music fan. Unfortunately, that doesn't appeal to the masses. And you need to appeal to the masses if you want to fill 15,000 seat amphitheaters. You can't really have it both ways.
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Village Voice's take on whether you'll get a chance to check out the Lollapalost acts you were hoping to see out in MD....
Where to catch your favorite bands now that the big show is canceled
Lollapalost
by Janet Kim
June 24th, 2004 5:10 PM
Evidently, indie rock royalty Morrissey, Sonic Youth, and the Pixies, in tandem with protégés PJ Harvey, Wilco, the Flaming Lips, and many others, are not enough to sell out America's amphitheaters, as Lollapalooza co-founders Marc Geiger and Perry Farrell were forced to cancel all of 2004's 31 dates. Fans expressed serious disappointment over missing one of the first truly alternative lineups in years (2003's top acts: Jane's Addiction, Audioslave, and Incubus). Last year's model brought in over $13 million, and while this year's total has yet to be disclosed, ticket sales were poor across the board.
The rest of America may deny that NYC and California are the national hubs of civilization (or is Middle America over indie rock, for better or worse?), but location proved to have an influence. Southern California's Coachella fest in May sold out both days (granted it wasn't a tour and featured many more bands than Lollapalooza). And the only place where numbers were in the black for Perry Farrell and company was Randalls Island, New York.
In spite of Lollapalooza's "reduced" ticket prices (in New York $50 for one day, $90 for both), concert organizers need to realize that while hate-metal bands and acts heavy on Clear Channel's nationwide rotation may fill venues, indie rock has always been esoteric. And the initiated, while eager to see great bands, are not willing to dump $100-plus in one night after you factor in the overpriced Italian sausage rolls, bottles of water, and beer. (Not to mention the vile Port-a-potties one has to endure after drinking aforementioned beer only to subsequently lose one's prime spot won after hours of waiting in the sun.) Add to these injustices the inconvenience of 20 out of 31 dates landing on school nights.
While Lollapalooza's website promises a full refund, Ticketmaster's policy is to refund the ticket's face value and per-ticket charges (for the facility and convenience), but not per-order charges such as shipping and order processing. A brief "investigation" (e-mailing of friends and a visit to the Flaming Lips message board) reveals that Ticketmaster charged $4 to process each order. While the number of tickets sold through Ticketmaster is unknown, one can presume the company will come out ahead.
For most would-be Lollapalooza bands, Randalls Island was to be the only summer pit stop in New York. Many are now scrambling to schedule an appearance. People in and around Chicago can shell out $55 (not including service fees) to see Moz at the House of Blues on July 17. The Big Mouth Who Struck Again has more dates forthcoming, but whether or not any of them will be in NYC (where he had five triumphant shows at the Apollo in May) remains to be seen.
Punk new wavers Le Tigre support alt-rock pioneers Sonic Youth on a tour that hits Oregon (July 15), Arizona (July 21), Nevada (July 23), Utah (July 25), Minnesota (July 28), Wisconsin (July 30), Missouri (July 31), Connecticut (August 13), and Maine (August 15).
PJ Harvey will tour America in the fall.
Modest Mouse plan on hitting New York in August but before then will visit Chico, California (July 16); Phoenix, Arizona (July 23); Bloomington, Indiana (August 19); Portsmouth, Virginia (August 19); and Austin, Texas (September 17 & 18).
The Pixies, who are finally getting their due, will be all over the place from September through December. Their NYC shows haven't been confirmed, but Frank Black Francis (as he'll refer to himself on a new solo album), Kim Deal, Joey Santiago, and Dave Lovering will be here, hopefully, for at least four dates, as at Chicago's Aragon Ballroom.
Wilco, whose latest, A Ghost Is Born, is touted as even better than Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, will be in Rhode Island on August 8 for the Newport Folk Festival. The jam band String Cheese Incident, who were going to play Jane's Addiction songs with Perry Farrell for their Colorado Lollapalooza date, continue their perpetual tour this summer. There's no NYC date yet, but they will hit California (July 16), Nevada (July 24 & 25), and North Carolina (August 21) with fellow might-have-beens Sound Tribe Sector Nine; with Michael Franti & Spearhead in Pittsburgh, PA (August 12); and with Gomez and the Polyphonic Spree in Houston, Texas (August 24).
The Flaming Lips have nothing else scheduled for the summer. Jesus and Mary Chainâ??gangers Black Rebel Motorcycle Club tour parts of the U.S. this summer before heading to Philly to start on a new album. Broken Social Scene have yet to decide their plans. NYC new wave noisemakers TV on the Radio are looking to open for a few of the Lollapalooza bands but for now have at least one date in New York this summer, the Voice's Siren festival (July 17). They'll also co-headline with lesser birds of a feather the Faint on a national tour in October. For other bands, check their websites. Since the price of one of these concerts will equal a day pass to Lollapalooza, choose wisely.
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That tidbit at the end about TV on the Radio touring with The Faint is pretty interesting. Now if only one of the BRMC dates could be in DC!