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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer on June 13, 2003, 12:52:00 pm
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Seems that novelty acts are todays topic, what with discussion of the Sex Pistols and Willie Idol.
Do I dare mention a current act? Anybody going to this show?
DRIVE-BY TRUCKERS
"Decoration Day"
New West
THE IMMORTAL LEE COUNTY KILLERS
"Love Is a Charm of Powerful Trouble"
Estrus
With most mainstream country-pop tunes as upbeat as toothpaste jingles, old-style laments have become the specialty of alt-country. Drive-By Truckers' "Decoration Day" opens with just such a bummer, "The Deeper In," a ballad that singer, guitarist and principal lyricist Patterson Hood says is about "the only two people currently serving time in America for consensual brother/sister incest." Yet the quintet doesn't deal only in gothic dirges. The album's unofficial theme song is the rollicking "Hell No, I Ain't Happy," which gives doom a kick in the pants.
Although the band hails from Athens, Ga., and this album was produced by Sugar's David Barbe, its style is unfazed by R.E.M., Husker Du or other post-punk influences. "Outfit," one of two numbers by new singer-guitarist Jason Isbell, offers a compendium of tips for the working-class Southern man, and the crucial one is "don't sing with a fake British accent." Still, the quintet doesn't simply accept the trailer-park existence that so many of its songs document. In the best of these songs, the Truckers stay true to their heritage while fighting to free themselves from its bummers.
A swaggering challenge to the authenticity of every other contemporary neo-blues duo -- and there are now quite a few of them -- the Immortal Lee County Killers alternate between primitivist acoustic fare and punkier electric stuff. The Alabama duo's "Love Is a Charm of Powerful Trouble" samples Howlin' Wolf, covers Willie Dixon and opens with a song titled "Robert Johnson," but it also evokes such latter-day bluesmen as Jimi Hendrix and the Gun Club. If the results aren't entirely coherent, they are appealingly brash. Change the gender of "She's Not Afraid of Anything Walking," and the Killers could be celebrating themselves.
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I'm going. I want to check out the Immortal Lee County Killers. I'm also pretty curious about Drive By Truckers after reading that description.
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I have my ticket, but may have a conflict, if not I will be there.
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haven't seen the drive by truckers in a couple of years... great show! the singer tells great stories about his songs. i once described them as neil young and lynard skynard drinking beer together in deliverance country.
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Possibly
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it looks like i'm gonna be there, along with a good number of other 9:30 staph members. should be fun.
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How will we recognize you? I'll bet this is one of those shows that Mankie shouldn't take his kid to.
Originally posted by thatguy:
it looks like i'm gonna be there, along with a good number of other 9:30 staph members. should be fun.
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I imagine those of us coming from the 9:30 staph will likely be adopting a pack mentality.
VERY excited for this show, saw them twice at SXSW. Album comes out Tuesday as well.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
[QB]
How will we recognize you? I'll bet this is one of those shows that Mankie shouldn't take his kid to.
Definately not if you're going.
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Originally posted by saco:
I imagine those of us coming from the 9:30 staph will likely be adopting a pack mentality.
VERY excited for this show, saw them twice at SXSW. Album comes out Tuesday as well.
but however will we tell the whose staph out of uniform ;)
will ya'll be the ones wearing all the brightly colored clothing?
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i'll be the little clean cut guy in the suit, sipping perrier in the back.
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Originally posted by thatguy:
i'll be the little cute girl in the frock, kissing rhett in the back.
awww! Isn't that precious?
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hey mank, what you say we take andrew out this weekend and get him real liquored up. then take him up to the baltimore tattoo museum and get a little work done on him. so that he and thatguy can switch places for the night?
does anyone have a clutch t-shirt i can borrow? i'll be eddie for the night :p
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Originally posted by kosmo:
hey mank, what you say we take andrew out this weekend and get him real liquored up. then take him up to the baltimore tattoo museum and get a little work done on him. so that he and thatguy can switch places for the night?
does anyone have a clutch t-shirt i can borrow? i'll be eddie for the night :p
I'd love to do that and get a huge swastika on his chest like Ed Norton in American History X!
Then we'll get him a nice prince albert before he sober's up.
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Originally posted by thatguy:
i'll be the little clean cut guy in the suit, sipping perrier in the back.
Don't be stealing my gig, dude.
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Originally posted by thatguy:
it looks like i'm gonna be there, along with a good number of other 9:30 staph members. should be fun.
If I worked at a concert venue, I would think the last place I'd want to go on my night off....is a concert venue. :)
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Originally posted by mankie:
Originally posted by kosmo:
hey mank, what you say we take andrew out this weekend and get him real liquored up. then take him up to the baltimore tattoo museum and get a little work done on him. so that he and thatguy can switch places for the night?
does anyone have a clutch t-shirt i can borrow? i'll be eddie for the night :p
I'd love to do that and get a huge swastika on his chest like Ed Norton in American History X!
Then we'll get him a nice prince albert before he sober's up. [/b]
I think it would be funny to have big black Xs tattooed on his hands. Poor guy would go through Hell getting served in DC anymore!
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Originally posted by mankie:
Originally posted by thatguy:
it looks like i'm gonna be there, along with a good number of other 9:30 staph members. should be fun.
If I worked at a concert venue, I would think the last place I'd want to go on my night off....is a concert venue. :) [/b]
Nah, being there working and being there relaxing are two completely different experiences. It's not like most jobs.
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some of us are incapable of relaxing at any concert venue. i work every show i attend, whether i'm paid to or not. that said, almost every time i take a night off of work, it's so i can go to a show at some other place. it's kinda sad, actually.
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I'm down...pick up the cd at noon..throw it in & make the trek.
You can listen to 4 of the new songs here:
http://www.radiowebstuff.com/truckers/ (http://www.radiowebstuff.com/truckers/)
\nn/
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I'm going for sure.....saw 'em at Fletchers last year and they kicked it! Some Patterson Hood storytellin' will be a great follow up to the X show on Saturday night!
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Also.....the new album is pretty damn good.....not the classic that "Southern Rock Opera" is but great anyway. I've been listening to it for about a month or so and it's cool.....
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Originally posted by kosmo:
does anyone have a clutch t-shirt i can borrow? i'll be eddie for the night :p
Damn you! There goes my anonymity...I'll have to wear my Clutch hat instead.
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My wife predicts she will be one of about five women at tonights show. Do any women go to DBT shows?
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
My wife predicts she will be one of about five women at tonights show. Do any women go to DBT shows?
well, i can think of 3 women who will be at the show, so just 2 more have to show up. . .which i think will happen. and if the wallflower comes, he counts as 2 girls.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
My wife predicts she will be one of about five women at tonights show. Do any women go to DBT shows?
the women i saw at dbt's iota show were pretty hot
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Well you know the men at alt-country shows are always going to be hot, and they're always going to drag along their hot wives or girlfriends. But I'm wondering if hot single women choose to go, or if all the hot women are just wives/girlfriends. Not that it really makes any difference to me personally...
Originally posted by kosmo:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
My wife predicts she will be one of about five women at tonights show. Do any women go to DBT shows?
the women i saw at dbt's iota show were pretty hot [/b]
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wives, girlfriends...sounds like a "family reunion"
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Originally posted by Celeste:
wives, girlfriends...sounds like a "family reunion"
Sounds like the old sailors toast:
"Here's to our wives and our girlfriends - May they never meet"
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Are you saying I'm going to walk into a room of testosterone when I go to the show tonight?!
By the way, the Immortal Lee County Killers II were picked by the City Paper. Am I the only one going mainly to see them?
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Anybody have any idea about set times? The show is listed as 8:30 on the Cat's website, but obviously the openers won't go on until later...
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Anyone know if this show is sold out? Cat's website says nothing, but Ticketbastard says no tix available.
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I just called the Black Cat, they said there are still lots of tickets available. It is probably just to close to the show to buy them from ticketmaster.
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Eh?
Ohhhh, you used the telephone. I get it.
Great news, thanks.
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Well, the Immortal Lee County Killers II were all I could have hoped for and more. They fucking rocked. I made the obvious mistake of thinking they were from Detroit but I think they may hail from Alabama? Bought the latest album and it is fantastic also. How kick ass was the drummer??
By the way, Kosmo, I think they are called ILCK2 because this is the second drummer and so a new incarnation of the band. Just a theory.
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Well, I guess we all have our own tastes! My friend loved them, too, but I found them unlistenable (if that's a word)
The Truckers DID rock and put on a heck of a show, but I, for one, can take only so much of them. Hard-working, talented bunch of fuckers, though...
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Originally posted by kurosawa-b/w:
[QB] I made the obvious mistake of thinking they were from Detroit but I think they may hail from Alabama?
they hail from auburn, alabama (WAR EAGLE!)
that was a marathon performance last night. . .the only thing i can compare that show to would be a gbv show, but with more guitar solos. i thought it was a fantastic show. . .all 2 1/2 hours of it.
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I agree. Great show, but then again the truckers ALWAYS put on a great show. Very happy I made the effort to get there early to see the killers too.
And thanks again Eddie.
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I liked the punchy rockers, but was a bit bored by the bluesy ballads. "Shut and and Get on the Plane", "Let There Be Rock", and "People Who Died" combined to make it work the price of admission.
The opening band was reason enough to visit the Red Room. Thanks for the root beer, Lulu.
I must say that I can with certaintly say that I prefer the Truckers pals/labelmates Slobberbone over the Truckers. Reasons why:
1. Slobberbone channels Neil Young, the Truckers channel Skynard.
2. Slobberbone's lyrics are far superior.
3. Slobberbone is nicer to look at.
Very much looking forward to seeing Slobberbone again next Tuesday...
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i too liked the up tempo stuff from drive by truckers... the alternating between fast and slow was wearing a bit thin by the end of the evening. they certainly have released a lot of new material since i saw them last in 2000. i only recognized three or four songs out of the whole 2.5 set. will have to pickup of the southern rock opera discs. i was disappointed by the lack of storytelling by Patterson and missed their old guitar player who looked like he came straight from deliverance country and sang all the low harmonies. good show could have used a slightly tighter setlist. and a tip of the hat to eddie as well.
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yeah, "people who died" was not a cover song that i was expecting.
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I thought the Immortal Lee County Killers were....erm...killer. The White Stripes on meth. Much better live than on the album, which is good, but lacks the spastic energy of the live show.
DBT were a lot of fun. Much better than the Molly Hatchet show I saw at Jaxx a few months ago.
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I thought the Killers were great...much better than I expected. The Truckers, on the other hand, put on an extremely bloated show. An hour and a half would have been PLENTY. That being said, they're all extremely likable performers, and they do write good songs.
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Truckers Rule!!! Thought it rocked. Wasn't expecting such a long show but I'll never complain about that. More time to drink beer.
Wondering if their encore opening Queen cover is a regular occurence or if they ad libbed it? Because if it was go with the flow to the DBT chant, then that is very cool.
Wish I was going to Philly for Saturday's show.
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Just got back from making the trek down...loved the show. I figured that that was the 9th time I've seen DBT & that show was definitely near the top.
I think the length of the show was kind of a reward for the good crowd. They really looked like they were SO appreciative and having a good time.
The encore break improv was very cool - never saw them do it before - just seemed like Patterson picked up on the beat and ran with it.
And then the song with ILCK was cool in a weird kind of way - the drummer prowling around the stage with his chains like he was the ghost of Xmas past. That dude needed a shower bad - he was dancing with his girl right beside me & I had to make a get-away.
Rhett - I couldn't disagree more about DBT vs Slobberbone. I really like them both, but forced to choose I'd take DBT anyday. Check out the lyrics on the new record - they're classic - very intelligent & witty. It's one of the main reasons I like them so much.
And Slobberbone being "nicer to look at"?! The bass player looks like an anorexic Grizzly Adams.
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Originally posted by TheNomad:
Wish I was going to Philly for Saturday's show.
That will be very good - Marah is the opener.
Wilco is in town here on Sat or I'd be going.
You can always come to Pittsburgh next Wednesday night!
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Both my wife and I though the Slobberbone guitarist was hot. And Brent looks cool in a rock and roll kind of way.
My wife thought Patterson was kind of cute. I thought otherwise.
Though I would agree with you about the Slobberbone bass player. He looks like an anerexic Bill Walton.
As far as the lyrics go...I find it hard to understand most of the DBT lyrics in concert, and SRO is their only album I own. I've read the lyrics on the Slobberbone site, so more familiar with them.
Originally posted by grotty:
And Slobberbone being "nicer to look at"?! The bass player looks like an anorexic Grizzly Adams.
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Originally posted by grotty:
Originally posted by TheNomad:
Wish I was going to Philly for Saturday's show.
That will be very good - Marah is the opener.
[/b]
I'd love to see Marah again. Wish they were playing DC as well as the NYC, Philly, Jersey shows they have listed.
Will opine on Slobberbone after Tuesday.
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The Drive By Truckers were great! It's pretty funny that music like that suddenly hip on the indie scene, though. It's basically southern rock a la Skynrd, et al, something indie peeps have been snickering at for the last 20 years. But suddenly it's deemed cool and like a herd of sheep, all follow...
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Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
The Drive By Truckers were great! It's pretty funny that music like that suddenly hip on the indie scene, though. It's basically southern rock a la Skynrd, et al, something indie peeps have been snickering at for the last 20 years. But suddenly it's deemed cool and like a herd of sheep, all follow...
I found it funny that they are hip as well. There were some great moments last night, but I felt that a lot of their set was very average. At times it seemed like a mix of later Son Volt and even a little Seven Mary Three (not a good thing). There are a bunch of a bands that can play the music they play, I guess they win over because they have a pretty energetic live show. But I did not really think that it was a sustained great live show. I think the first disk of SRO is great and the storytelling is what makes it stick out, but when they are just playing songs, there are only a few standout tracks.
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Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
The Drive By Truckers were great! It's pretty funny that music like that suddenly hip on the indie scene, though. It's basically southern rock a la Skynrd, et al, something indie peeps have been snickering at for the last 20 years. But suddenly it's deemed cool and like a herd of sheep, all follow...
I thought they put a lot of energy into their show (with the notable exception of the bass player who seemed to know two -- possibly three -- chords) and were having a lot of fun. The diehard fans were pretty rabid and way into the show. I wouldn't follow them around, but I thought it was great fun in the same way that almost any style of live music can be highly enjoyable if played by people who really enjoy what they are doing to people that are really into it.
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It's funny, I would only be able to come up with "herd mentality" argument for people not laughing their asses off at the Lee County Killers, let alone people actually liking them.
Drive By Truckers are perhaps a bit too Southern Rock for me. I need my Southern music with a bit more twang (along the lines of the Two Dollar Pistols) or with more of a Texas influence (early Old 97's, Slobberbone). That being said, Southern Rock Opera is a very good collection. Disk one is very consistent, with some excellent storywriting. Disk 2 is more inconsistent, but has several excellent tracks. The new stuff sounds pretty run of the mill to me...decent material by a band whose enthusiasm and attitude are able to mesmerize a bunch of testosterone driven male fans (and even a handful of female fans).
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
It's funny, I would only be able to come up with "herd mentality" argument for people not laughing their asses off at the Lee County Killers, let alone people actually liking them.
I agree with you here...but I also had the thought about all the hipsters seeming to now jumping on the Southern Rock bandwagon...I just didn't want to be my usual bitchy curmudgeonly self and bring it up...true, people that would make fun of classic rock now are digging this...
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I guess to each his own, but I'm a little surprised at some of the luke-warm feedback on the band and show.
I think a lot of it stems from the fact that they were playing a lot of new stuff. Get the new record & then see them though. I really think it's as good as SRO. I think most would have a different opinion then...it's often very hard to REALLY enjoy a live show when you don't know the tunes.
The other detracting factor I think is the almost over the top hill-billy posing. When I first saw them about 5 years ago, I actually felt a little guilty liking them thinking what's up with these red-necks. You definitely need to 'get them' before you can actually really like them. Listen to the spoken word song "Three Great Alabama Icons" on Southern Rock Opera. It sums up what they are all about better than any other story or article you can read.
<img src="http://www.wesfreed.com/images/p_superc.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Originally posted by grotty:
I actually felt a little guilty liking them thinking what's up with these red-necks...
herein lies the problem...what's so wrong with "red-necks"...and, I'd say they're hardly red-necks anyway
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Originally posted by grotty:
Listen to the spoken word song "Three Great Alabama Icons" on Southern Rock Opera. It sums up what they are all about better than any other story or article you can read.
The problem was that I really liked that song when I heard the album, and I got nothing like that from the show.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
It's funny, I would only be able to come up with "herd mentality" argument for people not laughing their asses off at the Lee County Killers, let alone people actually liking them.
So it's "herd mentality" when people like a band that you don't, but not when they like a band that you do?
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Originally posted by ggw:
So it's "herd mentality" when people like a band that you don't, but not when they like a band that you do?
Don't you have some packing to do, or something? :)
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Originally posted by Celeste:
Originally posted by grotty:
I actually felt a little guilty liking them thinking what's up with these red-necks...
herein lies the problem...what's so wrong with "red-necks"...and, I'd say they're hardly red-necks anyway [/b]
I'm not sure I'm following you here...I went to see them years ago, really liked them but initally had strange feelings about it...a specific example is seeing the confederate flag draped over the stage - living in the north, that flag has always had racist connotations to me. I didn't really dig them until I better understood their point of view and what they were singing and writing about: "the duality of southern living" - a strong mixture of both pride and shame.
It was very important to me that I didn't see them as true rednecks. Here's how Redneck is defined in my American Heritage Dictionary:
2. A person who advocates a provincial, conservative, often BIGOTED sociopolitical attitude.
There's lots wrong with that to me...
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I just wasn't really into the Drive By Truckers because that's not my favorite sound. But I could appreciate the band's chemistry and energy. And I like seeing other people having a good time. The ILCK2 were more my type of band.
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Originally posted by Celeste:
Originally posted by ggw:
So it's "herd mentality" when people like a band that you don't, but not when they like a band that you do?
Don't you have some packing to do, or something? :) [/b]
I have time enough to get some last minute jabs in.
Do you or Fat Boy Slim have any "must-do" hikes for the Grand Canyon?
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Looks like your dictionary left a little bit out...dictionary.com has two other than the one you mentioned...
red·neck
n. Offensive Slang
Used as a disparaging term for a member of the white rural laboring class, especially in the southern United States.
A white person regarded as having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude.
redneck
n : a poor white person in the southern US [syn: cracker]
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Originally posted by Celeste:
redneck
n : a poor white person in the southern US [syn: cracker] [/QB]
that sounds like most of my mom's family, who, coincidentially enough, also live in northern alabama.
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Originally posted by ggw:
any "must-do" hikes for the Grand Canyon?
we did only PART of the South Kaibab trail for a long day hike and did our overnight hikes on the Bright Angel trail going down to the bottom of the canyon...if I was to go again, I'd try the South Kaibab all the way down (I think it's harder) since you're a smoker and all, you better stick to easier ones and bring more water than you think you'd want or need...it is really awesome to hike down to the bottom on the Bright Angel (very user-friendly, but could be a physical challenge for some) and then just hang out in the deliciously cool creek all day...
have fun and make sure you wear sunscreen on your neck so it doesn't get too red!
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http://www.nps.gov/grca/backcountry/corridor_hikes.htm (http://www.nps.gov/grca/backcountry/corridor_hikes.htm)
Here are some suggested Grand Canyon itineraries. What we did is not listed as an option but what we did was:
1. Did a day hike on the South Kaibab trail. We went well further than what was recommended, and paid for it coming back up. This trail is very hot and unshaded, especially in the middle of the day. Perhaps had some of the best views of all though.
2. Came back a couple of days later and backpacked the Bright Angel Trail. Hikes all the way down to Bright Angel Campground day 1, where it was around 115 degrees. Was so hot the only thing we could really do was lay in the creek for hours at a time. Day 2 we hiked back up to Indian Gardens, but didn't start hiking until late afternoon, as advised by the ranger (the other option was to get up at 4:30 am and start hiking) Night 2 was spent at Indian Gardens, where we were both stung by a scorpion. We started hiking as soon as their was light, and hiked the rest of the way out, numb where we had been stung.
Originally posted by ggw:
Originally posted by Celeste:
Originally posted by ggw:
So it's "herd mentality" when people like a band that you don't, but not when they like a band that you do?
Don't you have some packing to do, or something? :) [/b]
I have time enough to get some last minute jabs in.
Do you or Fat Boy Slim have any "must-do" hikes for the Grand Canyon? [/b]
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I don't know how keen I'd be to hike the whole South Kaibab trail in a day, unless getting a very very early start. I surely wouldn't want to hike all the way up it from the Bright Angel Campground in a day.
Originally posted by Celeste:
Originally posted by ggw:
any "must-do" hikes for the Grand Canyon?
we did only PART of the South Kaibab trail for a long day hike and did our overnight hikes on the Bright Angel trail going down to the bottom of the canyon...if I was to go again, I'd try the South Kaibab all the way down (I think it's harder) since you're a smoker and all, you better stick to easier ones and bring more water than you think you'd want or need...it is really awesome to hike down to the bottom on the Bright Angel (very user-friendly, but could be a physical challenge for some) and then just hang out in the deliciously cool creek all day...
have fun and make sure you wear sunscreen on your neck so it doesn't get too red! [/b]
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right you are...these wouldn't be day hikes
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Originally posted by Celeste:
Looks like your dictionary left a little bit out...dictionary.com has two other than the one you mentioned...
red·neck
n. Offensive Slang
Used as a disparaging term for a member of the white rural laboring class, especially in the southern United States.
A white person regarded as having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude.
redneck
n : a poor white person in the southern US [syn: cracker]
Your dictionary ironically contains the EXACT same definition as mine...I'm still not convinced that being a red-neck is a good thing.
And I still have no idea what you meant by:
"herein lies the problem...what's so wrong with 'red-necks'..."
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yes, but you conveniently left out two definitions with other nuances, choosing only to focus on the "provincial" thinking and perceived "bigotry"
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Originally posted by Celeste:
yes, but you conveniently left out two definitions with other nuances, choosing only to focus on the "provincial" thinking and perceived "bigotry"
Nothing convenient about it...it's the dictionary definition that most closely aligns with my usage of the word in my post. It is obviously a complex word that has different meanings to different people. I'm just glad to know that the DBT do not fit any.
I'm still interested in the "problem" you alluded to...
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Wasn't redneck originally used to describe a man who worked outside for a living....a farm hand for example. The 'redneck' is because they got a 'red neck' from being out in the sun all day. It later became used to describe what we think of as a redneck today....the skoal chewing, black, jew and homosexual hating, NASCAR watching, country (alt or other) listening, pickup truck driving, Jack Daniels t-shirt and baseball hat wearing, uneducated bigot!
Maybe I'm wrong because I'm just a stupid foreigner so what do I know.
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Originally posted by mankie:
Wasn't redneck originally used to describe a man who worked outside for a living....a farm hand for example. The 'redneck' is because they got a 'red neck' from being out in the sun all day. It later became used to describe what we think of as a redneck today....the skoal chewing, black, jew and homosexual hating, NASCAR watching, country (alt or other) listening, pickup truck driving, Jack Daniels t-shirt and baseball hat wearing, uneducated bigot!
Maybe I'm wrong because I'm just a stupid foreigner so what do I know.
Compare your definition to the dictionary defs offered above. They are right on...albeit, yours is a little more "eloquent".
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I don't know how keen I'd be to hike the whole South Kaibab trail in a day, unless getting a very very early start. I surely wouldn't want to hike all the way up it from the Bright Angel Campground in a day.
Originally posted by Celeste:
Originally posted by ggw:
any "must-do" hikes for the Grand Canyon?
we did only PART of the South Kaibab trail for a long day hike and did our overnight hikes on the Bright Angel trail going down to the bottom of the canyon...if I was to go again, I'd try the South Kaibab all the way down (I think it's harder) since you're a smoker and all, you better stick to easier ones and bring more water than you think you'd want or need...it is really awesome to hike down to the bottom on the Bright Angel (very user-friendly, but could be a physical challenge for some) and then just hang out in the deliciously cool creek all day...
have fun and make sure you wear sunscreen on your neck so it doesn't get too red! [/b]
[/b]
Thanks. I'll let you know what we end up doing.
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Originally posted by grotty:
Compare your definition to the dictionary defs offered above. They are right on...albeit, yours is a little more "eloquent".
[/b]
I always was the wordsmith! ;)
I was just making the point/asking the question that "redneck" did not start out as a negative connotation.
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Well now that we have defined what a redneck is, what is a racist?
Is a person who has friends of varying races but who would prefer that their child not date people of a different race a racist?
Originally posted by mankie:
Originally posted by grotty:
Compare your definition to the dictionary defs offered above. They are right on...albeit, yours is a little more "eloquent".
[/b]
I always was the wordsmith! ;)
I was just making the point/asking the question that "redneck" did not start out as a negative connotation. [/b]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
[QB]
Well now that we have defined what a redneck is, what is a racist?
Is a person who has friends of varying races but who would prefer that their child not date people of a different race a racist?
My vote would be a 'NO' on that one.
"Racist" is used too freely by liberals these days..it's usually the only comeback they can think of, even though in most instances they're totally wrong.
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One of my sixth graders in North Carolina once made the comment. "Sure, I like to hunt. I like to fish. I guess I'm a redneck, so what?"
I don't think "redneck" necessarily implies someone is a racist, and I don't think everybody sees the work as a term of derision.
Like "nigger" it's one of those words that takes a different meaning depending on who is using it, and in what context it is used.
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Originally posted by mankie:
Wasn't redneck originally used to describe a man who worked outside for a living....a farm hand for example. The 'redneck' is because they got a 'red neck' from being out in the sun all day. It later became used to describe what we think of as a redneck today....the skoal chewing, black, jew and homosexual hating, NASCAR watching, country (alt or other) listening, pickup truck driving, Jack Daniels t-shirt and baseball hat wearing, uneducated bigot!
Maybe I'm wrong because I'm just a stupid foreigner so what do I know.
you're not a stupid foreigner...I used to think basically the same thing about where the term came from...that it came from them having short haircuts (as opposed to being long-haired hippies) and working in the sun all day...but, here's an account that dates the term back much further:
In closing, I would like to touch on the origin of the term ??redneck? for your edification. In listening to one of a series of tapes from last October??s National League of the South convention, I came across one given by Mr. Frank Walsh who, as a musician, gives the history of many of the South??s traditional music. Among one of his numbers was one entitled ??Bonnie Dundee.? It seems that as much of our original Southern music is Scottish, the story of the Scot??s resistance to English domination, was a natural part of our heritage. The origin, much to my own surprise, of the term ??redneck? stems from the time when Bonnie Dundee was commissioned by the English King (read tyrant), to suppress the Scottish ??Covenanters? who came to oppose what they viewed as the religious heresies of the Anglican Church. The Anglican Church was the officially recognized Church of England that didn??t take kindly to challenges to their authority. The Scots, thanks to the invention of the printing press, had come into widespread possession of the Bible, previously confined to church leaders.
These Scots came to recognize various heresies in ??official? church teachings that led them to ??covenant? themselves to the true teachings in the Bible. A ??National Covenant of Scotland? was eventually written and solemnly signed in Edinburgh in 1638, often in the blood of its signatories. As a symbol of their covenant with God and each other, the Scottish Covenanters began wearing a red collar around their neck. Noting the symbolism, the English began to derisively refer to these religious dissenters as ??Rednecks.? Thus, the origin of the term was born in Christian reformation and resistance to religious and political coercion. Due to their religious and political oppression, and eventual defeat, many of Scotland??s Covenanters fled their homeland and came to settle the American South.
So it is that the South became the historic home for the Scottish ??Rednecks?....
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Originally posted by grotty:
I'm still interested in the "problem" you alluded to...
the problem is northerners' and city folks' quickness to judge southerners as rednecks...and the blanket aversion to the stars and bars...and the lack of understanding of the confederacy or rebels
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I don't think "redneck" necessarily implies someone is a racist, and I don't think everybody sees the work as a term of derision.
Come to think of it, you have a point. Last week I was in a beer & wine place near where I live and in walked this couple. He was a poster boy for the "redneck". Two day beard, messy hair sticking out of baseball hat, wranglers with large belt buckle, oily workboots, black t-shirt..you get the idea. His honey was a black girl with the corn braid thingies. I thought to myself, "huh, you don't see that every day" They were holding hands and had a little smooch while waiting in line so I knew they were a couple......As I left I saw them hop into his pickup truck....that had a big dog in the back!
I must admit, it made me feel warm and fuzzy for a moment because the world isn't such a bad place after all.
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So which one of them do you think sucked off the dog?
Originally posted by mankie:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I don't think "redneck" necessarily implies someone is a racist, and I don't think everybody sees the work as a term of derision.
Come to think of it, you have a point. Last week I was in a beer & wine place near where I live and in walked this couple. He was a poster boy for the "redneck". Two day beard, messy hair sticking out of baseball hat, wranglers with large belt buckle, oily workboots, black t-shirt..you get the idea. His honey was a black girl with the corn braid thingies. I thought to myself, "huh, you don't see that every day" They were holding hands and had a little smooch while waiting in line so I knew they were a couple......As I left I saw them hop into his pickup truck....that had a big dog in the back!
I must admit, it made me feel warm and fuzzy for a moment because the world isn't such a bad place after all. [/b]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
[QB]
So which one of them do you think sucked off the dog?
The dog, aren't they lucky they can do that? Who needs heaven? (see other topic)That must be doggie heaven!