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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: HoyaSaxa03 on January 19, 2008, 02:03:00 am
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Deal Reached on Music Venue in Silver Spring (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/18/AR2008011803463_pf.html)
By Ann E. Marimow
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, January 19, 2008; B01
Montgomery County government officials finalized an agreement yesterday with music producer Live Nation to open one of its Fillmore venues in Silver Spring, a project the county estimates will generate $1.1 million in annual state and local revenue.
The $13.5 million deal with the Los Angeles-based company seeks to address concerns from neighbors about rowdy crowds by setting a 1 a.m. curfew for shows and a midnight cut-off for alcohol sales, in addition to assuring Montgomery's taxpayers that they are getting a good return on their investment.
"With Live Nation, we are partnering with a first-class company with a successful track record for bringing the very best to music lovers," County Executive Isiah Leggett (D) said in a statement.
Live Nation's regional vice president, Ted Mankin, said the 2,000-person venue would feature a diverse lineup, from reggae to rock to jazz, giving the Washington region "more options and more opportunity."
The announcement closes a tense period for Leggett, who resurrected the live music project when earlier negotiations with the Alexandria-based Birchmere Music Hall collapsed after five years of talks by his predecessor, Douglas M. Duncan. Leggett faced criticism from some County Council members and residents who questioned his decision to work with Live Nation without first considering a competing offer from Seth Hurwitz, the owner of the District's 9:30 Club.
The presidents of a dozen Silver Spring civic associations wrote to Leggett in November to express "disappointment with the process." The group said a "more open, transparent, competitive process would likely have resulted in multiple attractive proposals."
Alan Friedman, co-founder of a Silver Spring revitalization group, said yesterday that the county and Live Nation had responded to the community's interest in a wide variety of music and the creation of a citizen advisory board.
Attention now turns to the council, the General Assembly and the Lee Development Group, a Silver Spring company willing to donate land for the project. Leggett's chief administrative officer, Timothy Firestine, and Bruce H. Lee, the company's president, have begun trying to build support on the council for a separate agreement that would provide the company with a measure of protection to develop its property surrounding the music hall.
Opening a venue at the old JC Penney site, at Colesville Road and Georgia Avenue, relies on $8 million in taxpayer funds, with $4 million each approved by the council and the legislature. Live Nation has agreed to contribute $2 million to outfit the 32,000-square-foot building and cover any cost overruns.
Leggett's administration reached a tentative deal with the company in September after talks soured last summer with the Birchmere. Once a letter of intent was signed, Leggett refused to consider Hurwitz's offer, saying it would damage the county's credibility for future business deals.
Under the 20-year lease agreement, Live Nation will pay the county annual rent of $90,000 for the first five years, a reduced rate that the Leggett administration said is appropriate because the company is investing in the venue and will be responsible for upkeep, including structural maintenance.
The county eliminated the right of Live Nation in a preliminary agreement to eventually purchase the building, giving taxpayers a long-term asset for their $8 million investment, Firestine said. According to an economic analysis by the county, the $1.1 million in state and local tax revenue generated by the venue would more than cover the $355,000 in interest payments on the bonds backing the deal, resulting in a $712,000 net annual profit.
In finalizing a deal, the county tried to ensure broad access for community events such as graduations. The agreement gives county officials free use of the venue six times a year. Thirty additional events can be booked for community groups at a discounted rate not to exceed $3,000.
Live Nation also agreed to some neighborly gestures: an annual $30,000 contribution to the nonprofit Celebrate Silver Spring Foundation; an annual auction of concert memorabilia to benefit community groups that Leggett identifies; and six free tickets to each event to be distributed by the county executive.
The agreement calls for opening the venue in July 2010, which will depend on funding from the state and the council. Gov. Martin O'Malley (D) included $2 million in his fiscal 2009 spending plan, subject to legislative approval.
Hurwitz, saying he can deliver a better deal to taxpayers, is taking his case to Montgomery's legislative delegation. As one alternative, he had offered to build the venue without a taxpayer subsidy.
Leggett is just beginning to make his pitch to the council for approval of an agreement with the property owners. In exchange for donating the land, worth an estimated $3.5 million, the Lee company wants guarantees that the music venue would not interfere with its project, Firestine said.
Council members offered mixed responses to the deal yesterday.
Marc Elrich (D-At Large) said he remains unconvinced of the economic benefit.
"I still think it was a rip-off and we could have done better," he said.
Council member Phil Andrews (D-Gaithersburg-Rockville) called it a "good deal" and praised Leggett for keeping what he called "prime property" in the county's hands. Council member Marilyn Praisner (D-Eastern County), meanwhile, questioned the wisdom of owning another arts facility, which takes it off the property tax rolls.
Staff writer John Wagner contributed to this report.
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Ouch.
No more voting for Mr. Leggett for me.
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no drinking after midnight.
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guess 9:30 gets to keep the late shows
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Say hello to price hikes and a smaller selection of live music (if you're aversed to going to this venue)!
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Originally posted by azaghal1981:
Say hello to price hikes and a smaller selection of live music (if you're aversed to going to this venue)!
Why do you say that?
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Originally posted by Smylie:
Originally posted by azaghal1981:
Say hello to price hikes and a smaller selection of live music (if you're aversed to going to this venue)!
Why do you say that? [/b]
Both 930 and this new venue will be dipping into the same talent pool and will always be trying to out-bid each other for acts. The higher the bids go, the higher the consumers will have to pay.
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I like how, as a concession to citizens for the bad economic deal, the county agreed to make the shows less fun via venue and alcohol curfews. Classic win-win right there.
Also, is "neighborly" the word that people think of when reading this?
"Live Nation also agreed to some neighborly gestures: an annual $30,000 contribution to the nonprofit Celebrate Silver Spring Foundation; an annual auction of concert memorabilia to benefit community groups that Leggett identifies; and six free tickets to each event to be distributed by the county executive."
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sure if your neighbor happens to be the county executive...
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This deal makes it look even more like Live Nation donated a ton of cash to Leggett's campaign.
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Othe cities have competition between venues and don't seem to have prices that are higher than DC prices are now.
Originally posted by azaghal1981:
Originally posted by Smylie:
Originally posted by azaghal1981:
Say hello to price hikes and a smaller selection of live music (if you're aversed to going to this venue)!
Why do you say that? [/b]
Both 930 and this new venue will be dipping into the same talent pool and will always be trying to out-bid each other for acts. The higher the bids go, the higher the consumers will have to pay. [/b]
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Why do you like it, if it's less fun for you?
I think it's pathetic that people tie the degree of fun to alcohol availability. If you need alcohol to enjoy a show at a certain level, you're either seeing a shitty band, or you yourself have a problem.
Originally posted by Tom Servo:
I like how, as a concession to citizens for the bad economic deal, the county agreed to make the shows less fun via venue and alcohol curfews. Classic win-win right there.
Also, is "neighborly" the word that people think of when reading this?
"Live Nation also agreed to some neighborly gestures: an annual $30,000 contribution to the nonprofit Celebrate Silver Spring Foundation; an annual auction of concert memorabilia to benefit community groups that Leggett identifies; and six free tickets to each event to be distributed by the county executive."
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Othe cities have competition between venues and don't seem to have prices that are higher than DC prices are now.
Shhh... don't use logic on here.
I live in Richmond and often have a decision to make on where I travel to see a concert. DC, Norfolk, and Raleigh are all equal distance from me, and Baltimore is only a little further. So, deciding where to see a tour almost always hinges on price and day of the week. And without exception, for shows at the 9:30 club (a venue without direct competition in its market), they're almost always 5, if not 10, dollars more then any other market I see. For example: recently, the Editors were $25 at 9:30 and $15 in Norfolk. And this trend also copies over to IMP arena shows.
Not saying Seth is price-jacking, just saying I find it odd that in every market around me that there's competition, prices are lower then those offered by Seth's monopoly.
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Maybe Norfolk people don't get paid as much as DC people? :D
Originally posted by Julian, good manners AFICIONADO:
For example: recently, the Editors were $25 at 9:30 and $15 in Norfolk. And this trend also copies over to IMP arena shows.
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I'm glad someone else doesn't buy the "more competition = higher prices" argument. Extra venues also signal more market capacity and room for more bands to perform. Prices in NYC or LA, cities ten times our size, with many more venues, have nearly the same prices as does DC for the same acts.
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Othe cities have competition between venues and don't seem to have prices that are higher than DC prices are now.
Originally posted by azaghal1981:
Originally posted by Smylie:
Originally posted by azaghal1981:
Say hello to price hikes and a smaller selection of live music (if you're aversed to going to this venue)!
Why do you say that? [/b]
Both 930 and this new venue will be dipping into the same talent pool and will always be trying to out-bid each other for acts. The higher the bids go, the higher the consumers will have to pay. [/b]
[/b]
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Originally posted by Julian, good manners AFICIONADO:
And without exception, for shows at the 9:30 club (a venue without direct competition in its market), they're almost always 5, if not 10, dollars more then any other market I see. For example: recently, the Editors were $25 at 9:30 and $15 in Norfolk. And this trend also copies over to IMP arena shows.
Not saying Seth is price-jacking, just saying I find it odd that in every market around me that there's competition, prices are lower then those offered by Seth's monopoly. [/QB]
well, i too have found norfolk to be cheaper, but i also don't like the norva as much. i don't think the sound or the atmosphere is as good there. usually it's about 20% cheaper.. and you can also park for free if you get there early enough (when they are charging hourly for parking in the deck as opposed to the flat fee). it's a big quicker to get there if you can avoid hampton tunnel backup.
but NYC and boston and SF shows are usually more expensive than DC shows as far as i've seen.
and i have the same choices you do.
absolute priority (if all else equal) for me for the three cities you listed would be dc, then norfolk, then raleigh. what raleigh venue are you talking about? i hope not the ritz/disco rodeo. that has to be one of the worst venues i've ever been to.
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I agree. A lot of people in the area will appreciate the earlier end time, I think.
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Why do you like it, if it's less fun for you?
I think it's pathetic that people tie the degree of fun to alcohol availability. If you need alcohol to enjoy a show at a certain level, you're either seeing a shitty band, or you yourself have a problem.
Originally posted by Tom Servo:
I like how, as a concession to citizens for the bad economic deal, the county agreed to make the shows less fun via venue and alcohol curfews. Classic win-win right there.
Also, is "neighborly" the word that people think of when reading this?
"Live Nation also agreed to some neighborly gestures: an annual $30,000 contribution to the nonprofit Celebrate Silver Spring Foundation; an annual auction of concert memorabilia to benefit community groups that Leggett identifies; and six free tickets to each event to be distributed by the county executive."
[/b]
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mo co gets to use the place 6 times a year for free. mo co community groups can use the facility for $3k thirty x's a yr. legitt gets 6 free tix to every show. does the county and community groups have first dibs on the dates? what if a community group books the facility and later radiohead sez they want to play there on the same date?
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Originally posted by distance:
what raleigh venue are you talking about? i hope not the ritz/disco rodeo. that has to be one of the worst venues i've ever been to.
Alot of the "indie" acts that play 9:30 Club in DC also turn up at Cat's Cradle in NC. And it's almost always cheaper.
I agree Disco Rodeo is the worst venue maybe ever.
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So does the Cat's Cradle have a competing Clear Channel venue which is driving the cost of shows down?
Originally posted by Julian, good manners AFICIONADO:
Originally posted by distance:
what raleigh venue are you talking about? i hope not the ritz/disco rodeo. that has to be one of the worst venues i've ever been to.
Alot of the "indie" acts that play 9:30 Club in DC also turn up at Cat's Cradle in NC. And it's almost always cheaper.
I agree Disco Rodeo is the worst venue maybe ever. [/b]
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The bottom line for me is that if the cost of shows goes up, I just go to less shows. Simple.
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Originally posted by Julian, good manners AFICIONADO:
Originally posted by distance:
what raleigh venue are you talking about? i hope not the ritz/disco rodeo. that has to be one of the worst venues i've ever been to.
Alot of the "indie" acts that play 9:30 Club in DC also turn up at Cat's Cradle in NC. And it's almost always cheaper.
I agree Disco Rodeo is the worst venue maybe ever. [/b]
i also take into account the following
a) carrboro is 50 miles farther from richmond than dc
b) I85 is totally brutal and i can't stand the drive, especially late at night ... which leads me to..
c) shows seem to start later at the cat's cradle as compared to 930 on weeknights. i've found that a lot of nights i'm getting out around 1am. with a ~3hr drive home, that puts me getting home at around 4am. combine that with the the stretch of interstate and it feels like you're never going to get home. 930 shows seem to let out closer to 12 than 1 and with the drive being 2 hours or less, it's not as bad.
if you are talking about the cat's cradle, you shouldn't say raleigh, though.
i like both venues but even if the 930 show is more expensive, i would probably go there if i had to choose between the two. cat's cradle is a lot better than it used to be now that it's non-smoking (and it's also not nearly as hot in the summer as i remember it being a few years ago).
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Originally posted by distance:
if you are talking about the cat's cradle, you shouldn't say raleigh, though.
It's the Raleigh area. This new Live Nation venue is in Silver Spring, which isn't technically DC, but we all think of it as competition in the same media-market all the same.
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Originally posted by Julian, good manners AFICIONADO:
Originally posted by distance:
if you are talking about the cat's cradle, you shouldn't say raleigh, though.
It's the Raleigh area. This new Live Nation venue is in Silver Spring, which isn't technically DC, but we all think of it as competition in the same media-market all the same. [/b]
Silver Spring is a block outside dc though. It isnt much of a stretch to call it the dc area.
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By block outside I really mean next to. unlike jaxx which is considered the dc metal scene.
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If the deal gets approved... I think Seth should turn Merriweather into a state of the art all year row facility as a huge FU!
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Originally posted by kosmo:
If the deal gets approved... I think Seth should turn Merriweather into a state of the art all year row facility as a huge FU!
I like that idea!
Honestly, unless it's someone that I desparetely want to see, I plan on out and out boycotting the place on shear principle. Even then, odds are I'll just miss the show.
Oh, and Leggett has been placed on my total shit list of evil politicians that will never, ever get a vote from me for anything. Yes, I know I'm not in Montgomery County but, unfortunately, stink like that usually are the ones who climb the ladder which means that one day I will have a vote. (Not that voting is legit or stands for much anymore in this day and age.) Regardless, from now on, I will turn the other way whenever I smell that stench coming.
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so do those 6 free tickets per show go straight to leggett, or do they belong "to the people of Mo Co"? if so, how will they be allocated? maybe raffled off with proceeds going to the county? somehow i doubt it...
Originally posted by Julian, good manners AFICIONADO:
And without exception, for shows at the 9:30 club (a venue without direct competition in its market), they're almost always 5, if not 10, dollars more then any other market I see. For example: recently, the Editors were $25 at 9:30 and $15 in Norfolk. And this trend also copies over to IMP arena shows.
Not saying Seth is price-jacking, just saying I find it odd that in every market around me that there's competition, prices are lower then those offered by Seth's monopoly.
the presence of monopoly/competition is not the only difference between DC and those other markets. for arena shows, live nation (and the occasional other) operate here in DC = competition for arena shows.
Originally posted by 930clubber:
I'm glad someone else doesn't buy the "more competition = higher prices" argument. Extra venues also signal more market capacity and room for more bands to perform. Prices in NYC or LA, cities ten times our size, with many more venues, have nearly the same prices as does DC for the same acts.
so if there is more competition there, shouldn't price for shows be lower by your logic? or are you saying that competition has no effect (since prices are the same), so everyone is getting their shorts in a knot over nothing?
Originally posted by distance:
but NYC and boston and SF shows are usually more expensive than DC shows as far as i've seen.
and i have the same choices you do.
everything is generally more expensive in big cities, entertainment included.
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Stellar idea. And very doable.
Originally posted by kosmo:
If the deal gets approved... I think Seth should turn Merriweather into a state of the art all year row facility as a huge FU!
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Hyattsville could use a little revitalization as well near the metro station...