930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: brennser on July 27, 2005, 10:00:00 am
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been a while since we had a file sharing fight
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,1536822,00.html?gusrc=rss (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,1536822,00.html?gusrc=rss)
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Still doesn't justify theft. Thats my opinion. I always found it to be laughable that many who choose to steal software/music/movies use the excuse that they can't afford to buy it. Following that (il)logic, I should be able to go to the local Jag dealer and just take whichever car I want. :)
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well, you could also draw the comparison that its like buying a jag and not being able to let your friends drive it :)
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wooohoooo
i love this conversation!
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You could and it would be just as (il)logical.
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Computer-literate music fans who illegally share tracks over the internet also spend four and a half times as much on digital music as those who do not.
This doesn't really say much in the way of justifying file-sharing.
It does point out (and the article notes this) that people who share music are a valuable demographic for digital music sales. But it doesn't make any sort of case that file-sharing led them to purchase more music. It is entirely possible that if file-sharing didn't exist this same group would be buying 10 or 15 times as much music as the other group.
The survey confirms what many music fans have informally insisted for some time: that downloading tracks illegally has also led them to become more enthusiastic buyers of singles and albums online.
It does not confirm this. There is really no way of knowing how much digital music they would buy if they couldn't file-share.
Moreover, one would expect that "computer-literate" people would buy more digital music. The article doesn't really make clear whether this group buys more digital music than people who are computer literate and don't file-share or more than people who are not computer-literate. If it is the former, it can easily be explained that the other computer-literate group may not be music fans. If it is the latter, then it is simply a matter of being comfortable with technology.
Also, since it is only talking about digital music, we don't know how much non-digital music the non-file-sharing group is purchasing. It could be 30x as much.
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Originally posted by RatBastard:
You could and it would be just as (il)logical.
exactly my point
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Originally posted by RatBastard:
You could and it would be just as (il)logical.
but the real question is... who cares?
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Not me.
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
Originally posted by RatBastard:
You could and it would be just as (il)logical.
exactly my point [/b]
Just as (il)logical as the "justification" for the theft of the music in the first place. So now you agree with those of us who are on the right side of this issue! :)
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no, i was arguing that your metaphor was not apt
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As was I which I just pointed out. If you can justify stealing one thing because you cant afford it then you can justify stealing anything for the same reason. Bottom line its theft and there is nothing anyone can say that changes that. Whether one decides to ignore that fact and continue to steal (and call it sharing since that sounds nicer) is up to that individual.
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so you...agree that stealing a jag and downloading music are not comparable? i'm confused
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
so you...agree that stealing a jag and downloading music are not comparable?
Taking something without paying for it is stealing, right?
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i was arguing that the products are not similar because i can do whatever i want with a jag when i buy it, but not with a cd. therefore, the metaphore is not apt. that's all. i didn't understand ratbastard's post
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
i was arguing that the products are not similar because i can do whatever i want with a jag when i buy it, but not with a cd. therefore, the metaphore is not apt. that's all. i didn't understand ratbastard's post
OK. Gotcha.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?˘:
Taking something without paying for it is stealing, right?
Stealing a Jag is Grand Theft. Stealing a CD is petty theft. So yes and no.
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You know, there's a joke amongst some of my friends and I going on about file sharing and it's basically that it seems almost a waste to share because we usually end up going out and buying the music afterwards anyway. If we don't, it's usually because we end up not liking it, and then we just never listen to it again. It's the sharing that educates us to the music and turns us on to the artists that the major companies refuse to promote. That's what's so fucking important about being able to file share!
Years ago, we would go over to a friend's home and listen to their records and make some decisions from hearing it in their home. We didn't have to pay an admission fee to hear the music. Now that many of us are parts of international communities, we can't always do that very easily. This is our way of turning a friend onto the music that we find and like. Most people that I know who share this way are avid buyers of music, be it CDs, digital downloads, vinyl or whatever form they find. That includes concerts and other merchandise.
Funny thing is, I've also found that I've made friends with many musicians and other industry people and they sometimes are the biggest file sharers! It's all done privately and almost none of us will share with people whom we know won't ever go out and buy. It's part of the supportive ethics of the community. Personally, I haven't used a file sharing program like Grokster, etc., for about 2 years now, mostly because I got tired of it crashing my computer. Besides, I have more than enough music to keep me busy and if you know me, you know that I still have been able to keep up with the latest of my prefered genres.
It's the street corner dealers, mostly of massive copies of DVDs that should be taken down as they don't have the artists interests at heart.
And it always bothers me that the big wigs at the top always refuse to include the crapped-out economy. When people have to shell out more for gas and other essentials, on top of losing jobs or not getting raises, they have less descretionary income.
Lastly, I still have never been able to figure out exactly how they get their figures. I have a very, very strong suspicion that absolutely none of the DIYers, which there are a whole lot more of now, never, ever, get factored into the equation.
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jaguars arent THAT tough to get away with stealing...i think its tougher finding free music and software on the internet than it is to steal a jaguar...granted the forging of the vin might be difficult on the hard to find parts of the car. with the money from a jag you could steal all the hall and oats you wanted to.
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Originally posted by organizedconfusion:
jaguars arent THAT tough to get away with stealing...i think its tougher finding free music and software on the internet than it is to steal a jaguar...granted the forging of the vin might be difficult on the hard to find parts of the car. with the money from a jag you could steal all the hall and oats you wanted to.
Oh, please don't scare me like that!
Guess I'll need to put my sunglasses on and go incognito.
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Interesting side note which heavily relates to my post above, the Just Announced (http://www.930.com/cgi-bin/ubb-cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004729;p=105) thread and the What Are You Listening To Right Now (http://www.930.com/cgi-bin/ubb-cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008225;p=20) thread.
Inside the case of the Isobella CD case, just uder the section where the CD is placed, is printed "feel free to share".
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Same old veiled debates that continue to hide the fact that theft is theft. The level of creativity of thiefs in an attempt to make themselves feel better about stealing is sometimes amazing. The holes in youyr circular debate are big enough to drive a double decker buss through. Even one whos top has not been blown off. As I said before, the bottom line is that stealing is stealing and not a thing anyone can say changes that. Have fun trying to justify that illegal acts are anything but. I have made my points and stand by them. They are all factual and not based on emotion and appeals to pity. I'll leave y'all alone now to keep having fun! ;)