930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: mdh9857 on September 30, 2008, 04:38:00 pm
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This is the body of the email: Did anyone else get this? And ew, Silver Spring really stinks.
Email the County Council TODAY
to urge approval of Fillmore in Silver Spring
Everything is in place for a Fillmore Music Hall to open on Colesville Road (on the former J.C. Penney??s site). The State and County have agreed to build the $8 million building and Lee Development Group has agreed to donate $3.5 million of land in exchange for the right to develop the rest of its adjoining lot.
Before the County Council takes its final vote in October, they need to hear your support at
county.council@montgomerycountymd.gov
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Thanks. As a fan of competition, I will absolutely email them in support of the end of the de facto IMP monopoly in the metro DC area.
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I agree 100% with Julian.
I don't get why Seth doesnt build a mid size venue in DC???
I posted a rant on that on some other thread so i will leave it at that..
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For a while there was talk of re-engineering Merriweather so that the seated part could be closed off and indoors in the winter. Has that idea died? I think that is a fantastic solution to DC's lack of good a mid-sized venue.
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Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
Thanks. As a fan of competition, I will absolutely email them in support of the end of the de facto IMP monopoly in the metro DC area.
i take it you're also a fan of using public money for private ventures? seth is on record as saying that he welcomes competition, but he - along with a lot of other people - object to how the LiveNation deal was negotiated in the dark, using public funds, and without a call for competitive (!) bids.
Originally posted by Itouchmyself:
For a while there was talk of re-engineering Merriweather so that the seated part could be closed off and indoors in the winter. Has that idea died? I think that is a fantastic solution to DC's lack of good a mid-sized venue.
MPP isn't exactly in DC. i love that venue but it's a bit of a hike. DC needs something that's accessible by metro, which silver spring qualifies as.
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Originally posted by mdh9857:
..."Before the County Council takes its final vote in October, they need to hear your support at
county.council@montgomerycountymd.gov"
Sounds like an interesting session to sit in on, voting on what seems like a done deal (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/Content/home/pdf/live_music_agreement.pdf).
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well put sweetcell and Seth is on the record as to offering a alternate development plan for that Silver Spring site.
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A cheaper one at that.
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I fucking hate having to go to Silver Spring to see movies at AFI Silver, and I'd fucking hate to have to go there to see shows at some shitty Live Nation venue. If its a cool 3,000 - 5,000 seat venue, then at least it would serve a purpose in this area. Otherwise what? Just to have a venue more convenient to Red Lobster?
And yeah, the politics behind this venture is completely rotten.
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Originally posted by Mobius:
And yeah, the politics behind this venture is completely rotten.
I'll be voting against Leggett from here on out. Yes, even if it means having to vote Republican.
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Originally posted by mdh9857:
Before the County Council takes its final vote in October, they need to hear your support at
county.council@montgomerycountymd.gov
or, alternately, the same people need to hear your disgust and just how much you disapprove of this deal. i've sent an e-mail stating that i think this arrangement is ill-advised.
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Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
Thanks. As a fan of competition, I will absolutely email them in support of the end of the de facto IMP monopoly in the metro DC area.
You are clearly not a Montgomery Co. resident or this insane amount of tax payer money going to line the pockets of a company that is ALREADY a nationwide monopoly would piss you off to no end. 9:30 didn't run Nation out of business, they sold out to make room for the new stadium. Monopoly? I don't think so.
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Originally posted by Itouchmyself:
For a while there was talk of re-engineering Merriweather so that the seated part could be closed off and indoors in the winter. Has that idea died? I think that is a fantastic solution to DC's lack of good a mid-sized venue.
I was told at the beginning of the season that this was a go for this year, however, thats the last i ever heard of it.
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What happened with the Armory?
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Originally posted by Shadrach:
Monopoly? I don't think so.
Right. Because if a band is playing a tour and draws around 1500-2000 people a night, they have so many options in DC. For example they could play the 9:30 Club or 4 nights at Rock N Roll Hotel. What was I thinking? I retract all my comments.
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Originally posted by azaghal1981:
What happened with the Armory?
i have no clue what exactly happened with the armory as far as shows go .. but i do know when i went there last year for a dcrg bout it was run terribly as the place has exclusive deals with ticketmaster (causing $12 tickets to have an $8 fee) and bud (even running out of beer before halftime).
it's my understanding things were eventually cleared up on the side of the armory at future bouts, but if the armory can't handle a 1,500 person roller derby bout well...
i'll be there this saturday, we'll see what happens.
it's just soo damn convenient though. i'd like to see shows there, personally.
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There were talks of Seth leasing it a few months ago. Ch. 4 even did a piece on it.
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When the project is being funded largely by the city, that is not competition. They need to hold a full competitive RFP and judge all bids based on the same set of criteria. Regardless of the way you think IMP handles their strength in DC, LiveNation is a national company with far more market power than a regional entity like IMP.
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hopefully seth will stop keeping the huge multibillion dollar companies companies down. lets give them government handouts to make sure
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all of you, quit your capitalistic whining!!!
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all i'm saying is live nation is trying to fill a void in the market.. the best way for IMP to face this is to build his own midsize venue (not to rent dar).. in my opinion in DC...maybe petworth or atlas district..
as far as market power: there is no doubt that IMP has more market power in DC than Live Nation...
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Amen. Stop whining about venues and start worrying about your retirement funds!
Originally posted by very sonick:
all of you, quit your capitalistic whining!!!
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Originally posted by hutch:
as far as market power: there is no doubt that IMP has more market power in DC than Live Nation...
But Live Nation can use its NATIONAL market power to say, "if you don't book in our DC venue, than we won't book you in our Cleveland venue which -- oops -- heppens to be the only venue there!"
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Originally posted by Bags:
Originally posted by hutch:
as far as market power: there is no doubt that IMP has more market power in DC than Live Nation...
But Live Nation can use its NATIONAL market power to say, "if you don't book in our DC venue, than we won't book you in our Cleveland venue which -- oops -- heppens to be the only venue there!" [/b]
And they've been doing this in other cities for years now.
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Better than an email...
Montgomery County Executive Isiah Leggett and County Council President Mike Knapp will host a live, televised call-in show on October 1 at 7:30 p.m. The show, along with Town Hall meetings and other community outreach, is part of the Leggett administration??s efforts to foster open dialogue and communication on the important issues facing Montgomery County. Leggett and Knapp will answer residents?? questions on any topic of local concern. http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/ (http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/)
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Not all of us are as close to retirement as you are.
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Amen. Stop whining about venues and start worrying about your retirement funds!
Originally posted by very sonick:
all of you, quit your capitalistic whining!!!
[/b]
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Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
Originally posted by Shadrach:
Monopoly? I don't think so.
Right. Because if a band is playing a tour and draws around 1500-2000 people a night, they have so many options in DC. For example they could play the 9:30 Club or 4 nights at Rock N Roll Hotel. What was I thinking? I retract all my comments. [/b]
You make absolutely no point here other than there is a lack of a mid-sized venues to support these types of shows you mention. And that is somehow 9:30's fault???? WTF? Must be IMP black ops going around and sabotaging all the venues that spring up around the area... oh wait, there hasn't been anyone eager to build and open a place like this until recently. Give me a break. You have no clue what the hell you're talking about. I'm all in favor of competition and another local venue, but at what cost? Georgia Ave. through Montgomery Co. is lined with potholes, how about they fix that for starters?
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What the hey became of using Lisner as a medium-sized rock music venue? Seems to be just "world music" there for years now
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Originally posted by Shadrach:
You make absolutely no point here other than there is a lack of a mid-sized venues to support these types of shows you mention. And that is somehow 9:30's fault???? WTF? Must be IMP black ops going around and sabotaging all the venues that spring up around the area... oh wait, there hasn't been anyone eager to build and open a place like this until recently. Give me a break. You have no clue what the hell you're talking about. I'm all in favor of competition and another local venue, but at what cost? Georgia Ave. through Montgomery Co. is lined with potholes, how about they fix that for starters?
No one said it's anyone's fault. But the fact remains, at current, your company is the exclusive provider of services for bands of that size in the metro DC area. You're also the people who stand to lose the most if you actually have competition for once. You and Seth can praddle on about taxes all day long, but its so incredibly duplicitous to pass off your concerns as "taxes"
when in fact it's "IMP's bottom line."
What's most appalling is people eat this crap up. People like Sweetcell who live nowhere near Montgomery County -- and therefore have no reason to be concerned about how MoCo spends their revenue -- are writing emails in deference to the project at the prodding of you folks. What a bunch of fans boys. Even if you have a point about the public financing, how ridiculous it is coming from IMP employees. It's like believing Barack Obama really thinks John McCain is the wrong choice for America, as opposed to his real motivation for saying things about McCain being that Obama wants to President himself (or vice versa, same applies to McCain's comments about Obama).
What's most hypocritical about this rant is the "I'm all for competition, but..." Yeah, you're all for competition as long as there isn't actually any competition. IMP having the only 930 Club-size/mid-size venue in the area isn't competiton; 9:30 Club and SS Fillmore both existing is competition. That's good for consumers. That's good for the area. It's not good for Seth as evidenced by his scaremongering about how prices will magically jump through the roof. It's not good for 9:30 Club fanboys who hate LiveNation and have judged the venue quality before a blueprint has even been drawn up. But for the rest of us, in the real world, competition and having choices are a good thing.
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Originally posted by edbert:
What the hey became of using Lisner as a medium-sized rock music venue? Seems to be just "world music" there for years now
magnetic fields show will be there.
flight of the conchords .. which i guess you could count as "world music"
its slowly adding more acts though.
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Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
What's most hypocritical about this rant is the "I'm all for competition, but..." Yeah, you're all for competition as long as there isn't actually any competition. IMP having the only 930 Club-size/mid-size venue in the area isn't competiton; 9:30 Club and SS Fillmore both existing is competition. That's good for consumers. That's good for the area. It's not good for Seth as evidenced by his scaremongering about how prices will magically jump through the roof. It's not good for 9:30 Club fanboys who hate LiveNation and have judged the venue quality before a blueprint has even been drawn up. But for the rest of us, in the real world, competition and having choices are a good thing.
I don't understand your point. Should Live Nation build an Arena in Silver Spring to compete with the Verizon Center in the name of competition and what's best for Montgomery County? Do we know the area can support it? Why does the area need a new venue UNLESS its a 3K - 5K venue. What specific value would a 1000K venue in Silver Spring add? I can't think of ANYTHING. And what benefit to the people of Montogery County is awarding the venue to a non-local megacorporation? through a crooked process?
I think locally owned venues is a HUGE benefit to DC
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Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
Originally posted by Shadrach:
You make absolutely no point here other than there is a lack of a mid-sized venues to support these types of shows you mention. And that is somehow 9:30's fault???? WTF? Must be IMP black ops going around and sabotaging all the venues that spring up around the area... oh wait, there hasn't been anyone eager to build and open a place like this until recently. Give me a break. You have no clue what the hell you're talking about. I'm all in favor of competition and another local venue, but at what cost? Georgia Ave. through Montgomery Co. is lined with potholes, how about they fix that for starters?
No one said it's anyone's fault. But the fact remains, at current, your company is the exclusive provider of services for bands of that size in the metro DC area. You're also the people who stand to lose the most if you actually have competition for once. You and Seth can praddle on about taxes all day long, but its so incredibly duplicitous to pass off your concerns as "taxes"
when in fact it's "IMP's bottom line."
What's most appalling is people eat this crap up. People like Sweetcell who live nowhere near Montgomery County -- and therefore have no reason to be concerned about how MoCo spends their revenue -- are writing emails in deference to the project at the prodding of you folks. What a bunch of fans boys. Even if you have a point about the public financing, how ridiculous it is coming from IMP employees. It's like believing Barack Obama really thinks John McCain is the wrong choice for America, as opposed to his real motivation for saying things about McCain being that Obama wants to President himself (or vice versa, same applies to McCain's comments about Obama).
What's most hypocritical about this rant is the "I'm all for competition, but..." Yeah, you're all for competition as long as there isn't actually any competition. IMP having the only 930 Club-size/mid-size venue in the area isn't competiton; 9:30 Club and SS Fillmore both existing is competition. That's good for consumers. That's good for the area. It's not good for Seth as evidenced by his scaremongering about how prices will magically jump through the roof. It's not good for 9:30 Club fanboys who hate LiveNation and have judged the venue quality before a blueprint has even been drawn up. But for the rest of us, in the real world, competition and having choices are a good thing. [/b]
So then by your logic my opinion as a registered voter in Montgomery Co. is tainted by my affiliation with the club. In other words you know me well enough to judge that I am clearly not a person capable of separating the two things in order to look at the situation with unbiased eyes.
The simple fact is that this is a bad deal for Maryland and Mont. Co. I could give a damn about how this helps the concert goers who live in the District or Northern Virginia, they aren't the ones footing the bill.
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whats the capacity of state theatre. isnt it like 1000 vs 1200 for 930?
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As a Montgomery County taxpayer who is not affiliated with the club I agree that my tax dollars should not be used to subsidize construction of a live music venue for Live Nation. Nor am I happy with the way the deal was made.
Don't get me wrong - I love the idea of having another venue within the county's borders. But not like this.
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
whats the capacity of state theatre. isnt it like 1000 vs 1200 for 930?
900 standing, 600 seated, I think.
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Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
What's most appalling is people eat this crap up. People like Sweetcell who live nowhere near Montgomery County -- and therefore have no reason to be concerned about how MoCo spends their revenue -- are writing emails in deference to the project at the prodding of you folks. What a bunch of fans boys.
julian, it's refreshing to know you don't hold yourself up to the same standards you expect of others: Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
Thanks. As a fan of competition, I will absolutely email them in support of the end of the de facto IMP monopoly in the metro DC area.
since when is Richmond part of MoCo? !? i spend the week in DC and regularly attend shows around the region, so i do have an opinion to share. and FYI, i clearly identified myself in my e-mail as not being a taxpayer of MoCo.
Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
Even if you have a point about the public financing, how ridiculous it is coming from IMP employees.
yes, anyone who has a vested interest and whose opinion doesn't match yours is automatically disqualified from sharing it. how democratic of you.
Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
What's most hypocritical about this rant is the "I'm all for competition, but..." Yeah, you're all for competition as long as there isn't actually any competition.
what's most hypocritical is fanboys like yourself who claim to love competition - as long as it doesn't involve the bidding process. competition through subsidization... you really a GOP good-old-boy in the making, aren't you?
Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
It's not good for Seth as evidenced by his scaremongering about how prices will magically jump through the roof. It's not good for 9:30 Club fanboys who hate LiveNation and have judged the venue quality before a blueprint has even been drawn up. But for the rest of us, in the real world, competition and having choices are a good thing.
and by "real world", you of course mean Julian's America :p
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so what youre saying is that if seth wore $500 shoes and watched the hill that julian would be with him?
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i agree with julian..
now that live nation wants to build the fillmore suddenly IMP has a problem? why haven't THEY built a mid size venue.. i've written emails to dc city council members and they want a mid size venue.. BUILD THE FUCXXING VENUE .. instead we get shows at DAR which is not a concert venue..
there would be some credibility to IMPs position if they had tried to build the mid size venue before live nation did but they did not.. now that they see they might have a competitor they dont like it
we all know the 930 club is too small for too many bands.. dc needs a bigger venue for a lot of these bands.. why is IMP not building it and instead trying to torpedo someone else trying to build it?
for me the silver spring fillmore is not what i want.. i want it in DC! build it! the market is there.. you can have wilco play 3 nights at the 930 or 1 night at the new venue (or you can rent dar and we can all get screwed..that is not a music venue)...you do the math
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and last time i checked 930 concert prices and merrieweather aren't chopped liver..
in fact they are by far on the high end..so we do need competition.
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There was an article in the Washington Post on Monday about this. You can read it here. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/28/AR2008092802775.html)
Frankly, I think the entire deal is BS. If you are annoyed by this type of corporate welfare, you should sent the county council an e-mail:
county.council@montgomerycountymd.gov
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
What's most appalling is people eat this crap up. People like Sweetcell who live nowhere near Montgomery County -- and therefore have no reason to be concerned about how MoCo spends their revenue -- are writing emails in deference to the project at the prodding of you folks. What a bunch of fans boys.
julian, it's refreshing to know you don't hold yourself up to the same standards you expect of others: Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
Thanks. As a fan of competition, I will absolutely email them in support of the end of the de facto IMP monopoly in the metro DC area.
since when is Richmond part of MoCo? !? i spend the week in DC and regularly attend shows around the region, so i do have an opinion to share. and FYI, i clearly identified myself in my e-mail as not being a taxpayer of MoCo.[/b]
If anything, you're highlighting my point. Shadrach discredits me earlier because "I'm not a MoCo resident" when he said...
Originally posted by Shadrach:
You are clearly not a Montgomery Co. resident or this insane amount of tax payer money going to line the pockets of a company that is ALREADY a nationwide monopoly would piss you off to no end.
...but when Mr. Princeton writes an email in support of his vested interest, there's no demanding only email from MoCo residents then.
And for the record, in my email, I also said in the second sentence that I was not a MoCo resident and it'd be inappropriate for me to comment on the partial public financing angle of the proposition.
I can, however, see how MoCo officials have probably seen the "tourism" dollars spent by people such as myself and yourself to stay in hotels, eat at restaurants, and go shopping before and after shows at 9:30 Club and decided they could get a piece of that as an economic boon to their county and that the potential increase in "tourism" would offset their costs over time. People are acting like Live Nation showed up in MoCo, said "Hey, we're going to build a terrible venue with bad sound who hates their customers and treats them like crap, so please give us money for this FOR NO GOOD REASON," and they Leggett or whoever went, "uh, ok."
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Originally posted by hutch:
and last time i checked 930 concert prices and merrieweather aren't chopped liver..
in fact they are by far on the high end..so we do need competition.
This is another point that everyone seems to want to ignore. Seth has said on here that if the evil Fillmore comes in and promoters have to "bid" against each other for shows, prices will go through the roof.
I find that really hard to stomach. I attend shows and check venue websites in DC, Richmond, Norfolk, Baltimore, and Philadelphia with some regularity. Since, until recently, my own town didn't have legitimate music venues, I often traveled to shows, and my decisions where to attend a tour was usually predicated on (a) what day of the week it hit each city, and (b) how much it cost.
While I have no charts or statistical analysis, I can say without reservation that if there was ever any price disparity in excess of a dollar or three on a tour, it was 99.9% of the time with 9:30 Club being more expensive. I cannot tell you the number of times I've seen a tour hit three of those cities only to be $15 in two of them and $20 in DC. Incidentally, DC is the only of those 5 where the 1000-2000 person market has only one choice. I've never noticed it at Merriweather, though.
But Seth is probably right, and tickets will double if people have more entertainment opportunities fighting for their precious dollars. No doubt.
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Originally posted by hutch:
i agree with julian..
now that live nation wants to build the fillmore suddenly IMP has a problem? why haven't THEY built a mid size venue.. i've written emails to dc city council members and they want a mid size venue.. BUILD THE FUCXXING VENUE .. instead we get shows at DAR which is not a concert venue..
there would be some credibility to IMPs position if they had tried to build the mid size venue before live nation did but they did not.. now that they see they might have a competitor they dont like it
we all know the 930 club is too small for too many bands.. dc needs a bigger venue for a lot of these bands.. why is IMP not building it and instead trying to torpedo someone else trying to build it?
for me the silver spring fillmore is not what i want.. i want it in DC! build it! the market is there.. you can have wilco play 3 nights at the 930 or 1 night at the new venue (or you can rent dar and we can all get screwed..that is not a music venue)...you do the math
Maybe because it is not finacially viable without getting the venue for free? Hell I am sure the Black Cat (700 cap if I remember correctly), would build a 3-5k place if they got it for free, same with Seth, same with a bunch of others. So lets have all these groups bid on it in a fair manner.
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Originally posted by Sir HC:
Originally posted by hutch:
i agree with julian..
now that live nation wants to build the fillmore suddenly IMP has a problem? why haven't THEY built a mid size venue.. i've written emails to dc city council members and they want a mid size venue.. BUILD THE FUCXXING VENUE .. instead we get shows at DAR which is not a concert venue..
there would be some credibility to IMPs position if they had tried to build the mid size venue before live nation did but they did not.. now that they see they might have a competitor they dont like it
we all know the 930 club is too small for too many bands.. dc needs a bigger venue for a lot of these bands.. why is IMP not building it and instead trying to torpedo someone else trying to build it?
for me the silver spring fillmore is not what i want.. i want it in DC! build it! the market is there.. you can have wilco play 3 nights at the 930 or 1 night at the new venue (or you can rent dar and we can all get screwed..that is not a music venue)...you do the math
Maybe because it is not finacially viable without getting the venue for free? Hell I am sure the Black Cat (700 cap if I remember correctly), would build a 3-5k place if they got it for free, same with Seth, same with a bunch of others. So lets have all these groups bid on it in a fair manner. [/b]
how can it not be viable? 930 club is selling out an overwhelming percentage of shows.. we all see this! they are leaving a lot of money on the table.. its too small or the acts that are playing it... when a venue is selling out such a high percentage of shows and when they are being forced to rent another venue (dar) for a bunch of them (ween, mmj, wilco, kings of leon, etc.) its clear that they need a bigger venue
you have to make an investment of course..that requires some up front capital i suppose
i also suppose that in 1995 people thought there was no way dc could support the 930 club in the location it went up.. it didn't sell out that often at the beginning.. i remember.. i was here...
moreover imp argues that it would built the concert venue in silver spring without resorting to tax dollars right? so the market , unless i'm on crack, is there! they have admitted that they would do what live nation is doing without "subsidies" (of sorts).. so why don't they do it???
I'm sorry.. IMPs position makes no sense and i think it amounts to not wanting to let live nation into the market...i hate live nation as much as the next guy but i also don't care for the high priced tickets IMP is charging or $5 buds at the 930...
bottom line: IMP should build the mid size venue to serve the dc market.. they have profited most handsomely from the dc market and we need this so lets plow some of that money accruing from the 930 club into the midsize venue we need.. renting DAR is a lame solution that shortchanges the citizens of DC... that is not a good concert venue and should not be accepted as such.
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none of this is going to matter when great depression #2 hits. you're not going to be able to charge your $70 oasis tickets or $125 mbv t-shirts when you have no credit.
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[xx
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Originally posted by hutch:
Originally posted by Sir HC:
Originally posted by hutch:
[qb] i agree with julian..
Maybe because it is not finacially viable without getting the venue for free? Hell I am sure the Black Cat (700 cap if I remember correctly), would build a 3-5k place if they got it for free, same with Seth, same with a bunch of others. So lets have all these groups bid on it in a fair manner. [/b]
the black cat?? they live in fantasy land where credit cards don't exist.. when was the last time you went to a bar that didnt take credit cards??
dante is not interested in having his venue be any different than it is and has no ambition whatsoever to build a midsize venue..
i think we all know this.
[/b]
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Originally posted by hutch:
Originally posted by hutch:
Originally posted by Sir HC:
Originally posted by hutch:
[qb] i agree with julian..
Maybe because it is not finacially viable without getting the venue for free? Hell I am sure the Black Cat (700 cap if I remember correctly), would build a 3-5k place if they got it for free, same with Seth, same with a bunch of others. So lets have all these groups bid on it in a fair manner. [/b]
the black cat?? they live in fantasy land where credit cards don't exist.. when was the last time you went to a bar that didnt take credit cards??
dante is not interested in having his venue be any different than it is and has no ambition whatsoever to build a midsize venue..
i think we all know this.
[/b]
[/b]
Dante's a financial psychic and saw the huge credit crunch coming before anyone else. :D
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Originally posted by hutch:
how can it not be viable? 930 club is selling out an overwhelming percentage of shows.. we all see this!
Most 9:30 shows do not sell out. It's easy to think so because the high-profile bands that we discuss/bitch about here do often sell out. But just because Nick Cave and Vampire Weekend sell out, doesn't mean that Chromeo and Yelle will. In fact, only seven out of 50+ shows currently listed are sold out.
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
so what youre saying is that if seth wore $500 shoes and watched the hill that julian would be with him?
I would follow him to the ends of the earth in our matching Bruno Maglis.
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Not even OJ would wear those ugly-ass shoes
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Originally posted by Relaxer:
Not even OJ would wear those ugly-ass shoes
Now this is a really unfair complaint. Simply because a particular loafer style was ugly does not make the entire line of an elite Italian shoemaker "ugly-ass" some 15 years later. Maglis are, by and large, a more sophisticated, comfortable version of Ferragamo.
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Originally posted by hutch:
for me the silver spring fillmore is not what i want.. i want it in DC! build it! the market is there.. you can have wilco play 3 nights at the 930 or 1 night at the new venue (or you can rent dar and we can all get screwed..that is not a music venue)...you do the math
Did it ever occur to you that maybe Wilco just likes playing the 9:30 club? Don't they usually come back after their small venue tour to play Merriweather also?
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Originally posted by kosmo:
Did it ever occur to you that maybe Wilco just likes playing the 9:30 club? Don't they usually come back after their small venue tour to play Merriweather also?
We'd sure be able to test that theory out if they had any other reasonable club option whatsoever to play in the metro DC area.
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I just hate the idea that it is in Silver Spring. Who wants to go there over going to DC? We could definitely use something else.
Btw, I never went but what was the capacity of Nation? Something in another area of dc could work.
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Originally posted by kosmo:
Originally posted by hutch:
for me the silver spring fillmore is not what i want.. i want it in DC! build it! the market is there.. you can have wilco play 3 nights at the 930 or 1 night at the new venue (or you can rent dar and we can all get screwed..that is not a music venue)...you do the math
Did it ever occur to you that maybe Wilco just likes playing the 9:30 club? Don't they usually come back after their small venue tour to play Merriweather also? [/b]
maybe wilco is not the best example..and i have no doubt bands/artists love playing the 930 club..its a wonderful place.. but there is a reason wilco has played DAR.. the 930 is too small for a band with wilco's following.
but you seize on one small thing i say.. the general point holds: DC has outgrown the 930 club.. the market is too big for it.. there is a need for a bigger venue.. IMP knows this or they wouldn't have to rent DAR!
in any case: if IMP does not want to build the bigger venue then someone else will and for IMP to stand in the way of that is just protecting its own economic interest..nothing else.. its easy to say Live Nation's proposed Fillmore is an abomination because it takes advantage of what it has been offered by the Silver Spring area politicians.. but the bottom line is: if IMP thinks its so bad why hasn't it done it the right way?
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Originally posted by mdh9857:
I just hate the idea that it is in Silver Spring. Who wants to go there over going to DC? We could definitely use something else.
Btw, I never went but what was the capacity of Nation? Something in another area of dc could work.
I agree! This is precisely why I wrote a couple of council members here in DC.. they said they are interested in a midsize venue.. It just requires an investment..somebody has to stop in and put up the money.. I don't know why IMP doesn't do it...They must have their reasons but I don't see it...
This is what I wrote October 2007..nothing has happened since then..this was sent to Jim Graham and Jack Evans:
Greetings,
I am a DC resident since 1993. I have been living in the ward you
represent since 2002.
It has become painfully obvious that Washington DC is in dire need of
a miscale music venue. Currently either you have a show at the 930
club (capacity 1000 give or take) or you are talking
Verizon/MCI/Sponsor of the year Center. Constitution Hall is not a
music venue. There are serious problems with sound there and it is not
structured to be a music venue. Many people just avoid the place
rather than be hassled about having to stay seated in seat, bars
closing 20 minutes after show starts (all this happened to me last
week by the way), etc. The Warner Theatre as great as it is cannot be
properly called a music venue. Meanwhile, DC residents - many like
myself without a car- have to trek out to the Patriot Center and many
bands are currently not playing in DC rather stopping by at Rams Head
Baltimore. This is a new development by the way: we used to get
everyone to stop in DC but that is no longer the case! Merriweather is
not a DC venue!
Meanwhile, we hear that Seth Hurwitz is against the House of Blues and
that some people even within the City Council are against the House of
Blues because it would be detrimental to DC venues (Washington Post
November 2006). Now I don't care who owns the place but we
need a bigger venue dedicated to music within DC city limits. This is
such a slam dunk commercially I just don't understand what the holdup
is! If Mr. Hurwitz is against someone else doing it let him do it! His
930 club is so unbelievably extremely profitable I just cannot
understand why he does not take the initiative himself. We know the
930 club is too small which is why more than half of 930 shows are
selling out and often times bands will play two shows in one night or
do three or four night stands. Many bands are too popular to do this
and are increasingly avoiding Washington DC because we do not have the
right sized venue. Furthermore, scalpers are purchasing a lot of the
tickets and reselling them on sites such ebay. One thousand tickets is
not that much and it allows scalpers to have a field day and exert
market power.
So I ask you: what is going on with DC not having a mis-scale
dedicated music venue. I cannot fathom why we do not have a place with
2500-4000 capacity in DC. Are we really against someone like the House
of Blues investing some money in our city? I have been attending
concert events in this town for a long time.
best regards,
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Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
Originally posted by hutch:
and last time i checked 930 concert prices and merrieweather aren't chopped liver..
in fact they are by far on the high end..so we do need competition.
I find that really hard to stomach. I attend shows and check venue websites in DC, Richmond, Norfolk, Baltimore, and Philadelphia with some regularity. Since, until recently, my own town didn't have legitimate music venues, I often traveled to shows, and my decisions where to attend a tour was usually predicated on (a) what day of the week it hit each city, and (b) how much it cost.
While I have no charts or statistical analysis, I can say without reservation that if there was ever any price disparity in excess of a dollar or three on a tour, it was 99.9% of the time with 9:30 Club being more expensive. I cannot tell you the number of times I've seen a tour hit three of those cities only to be $15 in two of them and $20 in DC. Incidentally, DC is the only of those 5 where the 1000-2000 person market has only one choice. I've never noticed it at Merriweather, though.
[/b]
I would just like to know which concerts youre comparing to each other. Because hands down - unless youve been to every single venue in every single city you mention (no offense, but i HIGHLY doubt thats the case), the venues dont even compare in size/capacity.
heres my own example - i saw the dandy warhols in NYC (Terminal 5 - owned by bowery presents - NYC has STEEP competition) - $25 , Phila (TLA) onwed by The Fillmore/live nation - $18-20?? or so and at 9:30 Club (IMP) - $25. so by your logic DC is screwing me because I could have seen the dandys for cheaper elsewhere.
but your logic is flawed. these venues arent even equal in size. terminal 5 is the biggest - and the dandys getting $25 is about right. TLA - much smaller (1/2 the size of Terminal 5) and easily smaller than 9:30, so clearly their club would be a bit cheaper. and at 9:30 club - maybe it should have been $22 as its not as big, but i couldnt complain.
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Originally posted by hutch:
for me the silver spring fillmore is not what i want.. i want it in DC! build it! the market is there..
the problem is that if a mid-sized venue was built in SS, the economics of building a similar venue in DC *really* wouldn't work. i doubt this market could support two such venue, so if they build the SS venue, get used to taking the red line all the way up there for mid-sized shows. guess it would still be better than patriot center...
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technically, wouldnt the smaller venue be more expensive?
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I consider venues like Sonar, 9:30 Club, The National, The NorVa, Toad's Place, etc to all be in the same 1200-1800 person range.
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by the way Jim Graham repsonded like this..but this was a year ago and I have heard nothing about an RFP.. maybe I'll write the Council again:
Thanks. We might very well end up with such a venue. AN RFP is about to issued. Perhaps 9:30 will apply along with others. Bests
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last time i was at sonar it was a lot smaller than 9:30 club. granted i might have been in the club room, but im pretty sure i was at the mainstage.
edit: actually it only holds 1000 according to their website.
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
the problem is that if a mid-sized venue was built in SS, the economics of building a similar venue in DC *really* wouldn't work.
I find it really funny the argument is getting made that the city of DC with 588,000 people living inside it's boundary (not to mention it's metro area) and a rich, musical heritage can only support one ~1500 person venue, while Richmond's 198,000 residents can support two.
Originally posted by very sonick:
technically, wouldnt the smaller venue be more expensive?
You'd think since the band's "per night" cost would have to be divided among fewer people.
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
Originally posted by hutch:
for me the silver spring fillmore is not what i want.. i want it in DC! build it! the market is there..
the problem is that if a mid-sized venue was built in SS, the economics of building a similar venue in DC *really* wouldn't work. i doubt this market could support two such venue, so if they build the SS venue, get used to taking the red line all the way up there for mid-sized shows. guess it would still be better than patriot center... [/b]
I agree with this too.. this is whats so frustrating about the venue not having been built in DC and leaving the door open for Silver Spring..
OK I'm going to go now.. this is one of my pet dc issues... i don't have the 930 books so i can't say for sure how profitable the place is but i think they've been making good money which is why they are not that pressed to build another venue.. but i think they are leaving money on the table by not building a bigger venue..and ultimately its the music concert consumer getting screwed.
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Originally posted by very sonick:
technically, wouldnt the smaller venue be more expensive?
I wondered the same thing.
Typically, more intimate show = higher price, no?
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Originally posted by hutch:
how can it not be viable? 930 club is selling out an overwhelming percentage of shows.. we all see this! they are leaving a lot of money on the table.. its too small or the acts that are playing it... when a venue is selling out such a high percentage of shows and when they are being forced to rent another venue (dar) for a bunch of them (ween, mmj, wilco, kings of leon, etc.) its clear that they need a bigger venue
i'm with relaxer on this one, it's mostly the big attention-getters that sell out so percentage of sell-outs appears to be disproportional. and from an economic point of view, it's often better to sell out a smaller club than to have a half-empty bigger club.
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Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
I find it really funny the argument is getting made that the city of DC with 588,000 people living inside it's boundary (not to mention it's metro area) and a rich, musical heritage can only support one ~1500 person venue, while Richmond's 198,000 residents can support two.
rent/real estate have got to be significantly lower in richmond. even so, it is remarkable that richmond can support two venues like that. back in pittsburgh venues used to come and go every couple years
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
rent/real estate have got to be significantly lower in richmond. even so, it is remarkable that richmond can support two venues like that.
No doubt on both points. I think the fact both have/are building full-service restaurants (not just for people attending shows) in addition to their concert halls help both.
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1200 vs. 3-5k. Look at Baltimore's Ramshead Live, that is in the latter range, what do they show there, that is what goes into such places. Realize that 3 nights of Wilco might be the same 700 core fans and maybe 1000 more, so in a 3-5k place, it is about 1/2 full. Multi-shows do not add up linearly to a bigger place. Also there are far fewer shows that would fill such a place, making it harder to keep filled and profitable. Go to www.pollstar.com (http://www.pollstar.com) join and get to see the ticket sales for different bands on tour (well they used to have that information but you do pay for it). The 3-5k range is viewed as hell by most concert people, hard to keep profitable in that size in most markets.
Still if it is going to happen, having competetive bidding, especially when they are looking for major cuts in the budgets would be a first step.
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And don't confuse The Fillmore with the 3-5k venue some of you are looking for. The Fillmore is only supposed to hold 500-2000 people, depending on the configuration.
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Originally posted by Sir HC:
1200 vs. 3-5k. Look at Baltimore's Ramshead Live, that is in the latter range, what do they show there, that is what goes into such places.
Even with the recent expansion, Rams Head Live is still under 2000.
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I find using tax payers money for a major corporation to be a bit of bullshit. Though I'm not from MoCo, this deal smells a lot. While yes I am a fan of the 9:30 club and of the Black Cat, I am trying very hard to be unbiased here.
It's a shame that somebody can't start their own music venue the way Dante or Seth did. I find it sad that Silver Spring and Montgomery County didn't put out a bid to see if anyone independently or involved in the local music scene would want to do a new venue. Instead, they just point blankly turned to the Applebee's or McDonald's equivalent of concert companies.
I am all about fair and open bids and government. Had Live Nation got this deal the right way, I would probably have no issues with it. But since they obviously didn't, it bothers me alot. It says a lot about local government and how they seem to be okay with big chain companies. It also makes me sad that this place probably won't have anything unique or special to offer. The original Fillmore is something unique, historical and special. But having a Fillmore in the dc area to me is like having a Chili's or some other chain restaurant, and I don't know about everyone else, but I like going to localized restaurants because they sometimes tend to be better than chains and more passionate about food. I'd like my music venues to also scream something geographically special (there is only one 9:30 Club in this world and it's the pride and joy I think of many people in Maryland and DC). I also love places that are passionate about the music. I think part of the reason I couldn't stand Nation is that it always had this feeling that it was just there for the money and not also because of the music. Actually I think I can't stand Ramshead Live! much is because it feels like an applebee's.
I just get this sinking feeling that this venue in Silver Spring is going to be all about money and not really the music. Also, I get the feeling it's going to be like Ramshead Live! in the terms of being a polished music venue that lacks much character.
Final thing, I don't think the 930 club has much of a monopoly. Live Nation already books stuff in this area. AC/DC at the Verizon Center is obviously a live nation deal. I've learned that if something happens at DAR, George Mason or Verizon Center that isn't posted on here, most likely it's a Live Nation event. I fear that Live Nation having their own music club in the area will be an issue because like somebody said earlier, they can harass bands with playing on their venues, because they own most venues in smaller cities.
ps- Venue Sizes...
Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember reading somewhere that Nation could hold 2,000 people. 9:30 club can hold about 960 people. Black Cat's main concert room can hold I think almost 700 people. Reacher Theatre can hold close to 1,000. Sonar can hold about 1,000 and Ramshead Live! can hold about 1,600.
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Originally posted by saintangelsin:
I find it sad that Silver Spring and Montgomery County didn't put out a bid to see if anyone independently or involved in the local music scene would want to do a new venue. Instead, they just point blankly turned to the Applebee's or McDonald's equivalent of concert companies.
This isn't entirely true. They had a deal 99% complete to open another Birchmere in the same location. That last 1% of the negotiation took forever (over a year?) and they eventually bailed on it. About one week later they announced a completed deal with Live Nation for a bigger 9:30-type club.
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Originally posted by saintangelsin:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember reading somewhere that Nation could hold 2,000 people. 9:30 club can hold about 960 people. Black Cat's main concert room can hold I think almost 700 people. Reacher Theatre can hold close to 1,000. Sonar can hold about 1,000 and Ramshead Live! can hold about 1,600.
I question that 9:30 Club figure. I think 898 is the posted downstairs fire code maximum alone.
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Originally posted by saintangelsin:
Instead, they just point blankly turned to the Applebee's or McDonald's equivalent of concert companies.
isn't the venue supposed to be a House of Blues? if so, i think "strip mall of music venues" would be a more apt analogy. i think HoB's are horrible venues. sound is good but their attempts to inject "history" and "rockitude" into those establishments is off-putting. but i've been to two in the past am and lining up to go to a third this weekend, so apparently i'm willing to put up with it for the right acts.
Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
Originally posted by saintangelsin:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember reading somewhere that Nation could hold 2,000 people. 9:30 club can hold about 960 people. Black Cat's main concert room can hold I think almost 700 people. Reacher Theatre can hold close to 1,000. Sonar can hold about 1,000 and Ramshead Live! can hold about 1,600.
I question that 9:30 Club figure. I think 898 is the posted downstairs fire code maximum alone. [/b]
yup, the 930's capacity clocks in at 1200.
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Originally posted by hutch:
by the way Jim Graham repsonded like this..but this was a year ago and I have heard nothing about an RFP.. maybe I'll write the Council again:
Thanks. We might very well end up with such a venue. AN RFP is about to issued. Perhaps 9:30 will apply along with others. Bests
I worked for years to develop that 3200 seat venue. Based on market research at the time that was the best size venue for DC in the 2000-7500 seat range. It was part of a larger project. I wish I could go in to more detail on here but the bottom line is that certain City Council members (not Graham) stalled the project. The project recently folded.
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dc has no need for another "mid-size" venue. we have lisner,warner,dar,bender,mcdonough,patriot ctr,dc armory,lincoln,ritchie,strathmore,more(?). there are not enough acts to fill these venues on a nightly basis. no private $ is going to build another venue of this size. you might not like what is available, but it is already built and in use. the fillmore would compete directly with 930. both venues would be dark more often or they would start taking acts from the black cat who would take acts from the rnr hotel who would take acts from dc9+velvet lounge.
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Originally posted by Sir HC:
The 3-5k range is viewed as hell by most concert people, hard to keep profitable in that size in most markets.
It's supposedly a great size for elevator acts....acts that are on the way up or on the way down.
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Originally posted by anarchist:
dc has no need for another "mid-size" venue. we have lisner,warner,dar,bender,mcdonough,patriot ctr,dc armory,lincoln,ritchie,strathmore,more(?).
4 of them are school gyms.
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Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
Thanks. As a fan of competition, I will absolutely email them in support of the end of the de facto IMP monopoly in the metro DC area.
I second that...
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
Originally posted by Julian, certified WEBLEBRITY:
Thanks. As a fan of competition, I will absolutely email them in support of the end of the de facto IMP monopoly in the metro DC area.
i take it you're also a fan of using public money for private ventures? seth is on record as saying that he welcomes competition, but he - along with a lot of other people - object to how the LiveNation deal was negotiated in the dark, using public funds, and without a call for competitive (!) bids.
[/b]
really, welcoming competition... um... remember the promised DC House of Blues [points finger]
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according to StubHub, DC is a low 18th place as a 'rockin' city:
Richmond speeds past D.C. as buzzing concert scene
Washington Business Journal - by Tierney Plumb, Staff Reporter
D.C. slipped this year on StubHub??s third annual ranking of the 20 most-active markets for summer concert tickets.
U.S. cities that use the San Francisco-based ticket marketplace were ranked based on total sales for concerts between May 15 and Sept. 15.
The Richmond area took the biggest leap on the list, moving up from No. 17 to No. 9 this year, helped by performances from Jimmy Buffett, Radiohead, Bruce Springsteen, Jonas Brothers and Dave Matthews Band -- the majority of which took place at Nissan Pavilion.
Despite D.C.??s three best-selling acts hosted at the Verizon Center ?? Coldplay, Eagles and Pearl Jam ?? it dropped to No. 18 from No. 15 in 2007.
For the third year in a row, New York took the top seat, hosting such performances as Billy Joel??s sold out musical ??Last Plays at Shea? in July.
Joel commanded the highest average selling ticket price among the summer??s top concerts, at $230 apiece.
Boston jumped to No. 2 on this year??s list after ranking No. 4 in 2007 on the strength of Kenny Chesney and Bruce Springsteen??s performances at Gillette Stadium.
Two newcomers made debuts on the list, with Indianapolis at No. 13 and Cleveland at No. 20.
The most expensive concert ticket sold this summer as of Aug. 11 through StubHub, an eBay (NASDAQ: EBAY) company, was $4,000 for a front row seat to the Dave Matthews Band concert in New York City on Sept. 10. The cheapest: $2 for a middle section ticket to see the same band in Michigan on June 9.
2008 America??s 20 Most Rockin?? Cities
New York City
Boston
Los Angeles
Philadelphia
Chicago
San Francisco Bay Area
Hartford
Detroit
Richmond
Dallas
Atlanta
Las Vegas
Indianapolis
Atlantic City
Seattle
Denver
Houston
Washington
Miami
Cleveland
~
it's very apparent when there isn't alot of competition or multiple venues like other cities has.
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Originally posted by Giles:
U.S. cities that use the San Francisco-based ticket marketplace were ranked based on total sales for concerts between May 15 and Sept. 15.
This seems like a faulty methodology for gauging "rocking-ness"... it means that a city with a bunch of mainstream, high-priced shows could come out ahead of one with cheaper, more indie-oriented shows.
Not to mention that from what I've seen, tickets for the 9:30 Club tend to cost less than those for identical shows in cities like New York or Chicago.
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StubHub is even faulty for including Nissan as a Richmond venue - come on, I don't think so...
but even for indie oriented shows - DC doesn't even come close to the number of venues that Philly has. More bands go to Philly because there are more venues to choose from to book them. One could also attribute Philly having a much more vibrant music scene because they actually have radio station XPN - that plays eclectic music. You'd think XM would have built to a music venue to showcase and broadcast shows, but nope... no deal for Washingtonians. NPR though is in the works for the construction of a multi-purpose venue, to do just that: music, lectures, etc. I know that NPR work with the 9:30 to broadcast online concerts which is great (the 'Of Montreal' show will be available tonight), but it's also in their best interest to have their own venue.
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i don't think it's the "lack" of venues as to why bands skip DC....
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sucky radio? what, why?
I remember someone saying that some bands request that a venue be a particular size to maximise ticket sales/profit - if none are available they can choose not to play in a city/region.
wasn't there at one point talk about the DC Armoury being converted to showcase larger 'music' shows?
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the only person that can truly answered authoritatively around here is Seth...
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first they need subsidies, now they need to have laws changed...
County alters zoning policy, clears way for Live Nation venue (http://www.dcexaminer.com/local/County_alters_zoning_policy_clears_way_for_Live_Nation_venue.html)
sounds like it's almost a done deal.