930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: sweetcell on October 15, 2008, 09:43:00 pm
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i don't know who Joe the Plumber is. until tonight, i had never heard of him. but given that both candidates have elevated him to a stereotype of all that is good about american entrepreneurship, i want to get to know Joe.
who is Joe?
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<img src="http://www.myplumberscrack.com/images/crack.jpg" alt=" - " />
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I wonder if he's friends with Floyd the Barber.
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joe the plumber is a concept; an idea that people who run for office, can relate to the working man/woman. and the working man/woman believe it everytime. until the office is won, where the concepts are dust in the wind forgotten, and the people sit back to wonder how they fell into the trap once again.
people love to think they are being represented.
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and like mechanics, most plumbers are scam artists who will rip you off with their trade. because what are you going to do, fix it yourself?
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joe wertelbacher is the guy and mccain f-ed up his name calling him joe wertzerberger, which i find hilarious. nice to point out the guy in your speech a zillion times and not even get his name right - but i guess its close enough so why should anyone care (besides Joe). i guess now we're stuck with joe the plumber instead of joe six-pack.
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post-debate CNN comment-of-the-night: "not since the nixon administration have we heard so much about plumbers" :D
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so i was filling up at the local seven eleven, and i notice this ad above the pump that says buy a cup of coffee in either an obama or mccain cup to "vote," with a picture of each cup. obama's cup was taller, bigger, and more prominent than mccain's. how odd. seven eleven must be white man racist.
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don't plumbers make $200k a year?
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
post-debate CNN comment-of-the-night: "not since the nixon administration have we heard so much about plumbers" :D
LOL!
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I used to know Joe when he was just a plumber's apprentice. He's kinda sold out lately; I barely recognize him with all of this mainstream press.
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Originally posted by walkonby:
joe the plumber is a concept; an idea that people who run for office, can relate to the working man/woman. and the working man/woman believe it everytime. until the office is won, where the concepts are dust in the wind forgotten, and the people sit back to wonder how they fell into the trap once again.
people love to think they are being represented.
no, he's a real guy that Obama met on the campaign trail. his real name is Joe Wurzelbacher and he's from Ohio.
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Originally posted by nkotb:
I used to know Joe
you dont know Joe.
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I didn't like the attacks from Mccain.
However, one good thing about this election, no references to god and religion, so good not to hear the "God bless America" thing, finally. Also good not to hear ever again the elitist and class-racist compassionate conservative concept.
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Summed up nicely in a NYTimes blog:
Little wonder, in the ideological wilderness of 2008, a time when McCainâ??s dark-side supporters want him to stay dirty, that McCain chose to dwell on a guy who spends a lot of time with his head in the toilet.
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Originally posted by anarchist:
don't plumbers make $200k a year?
maybe when houses were being built like crazy around here
the part i dont believe is a white guy working 70 hours a week. if he was bolivian, id buy it
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
Originally posted by anarchist:
don't plumbers make $200k a year?
maybe when houses were being built like crazy around here
the part i dont believe is a white guy working 70 hours a week. if he was bolivian, id buy it [/b]
i work over 60 most weeks. but i am Canadian.
still white though.
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do you plumb?
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
do you plumb?
no, i engineer.
i also get time and a half
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I miss Mario and Luigi.
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Originally posted by very sonick:
Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
do you plumb?
no, i engineer.
i also get time and a half [/b]
my post was supposed to be plumbing specific
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
Originally posted by very sonick:
Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
do you plumb?
no, i engineer.
i also get time and a half [/b]
my post was supposed to be plumbing specific [/b]
<img src="http://www.independent.ie/multimedia/archive/00181/BobTheBuilder627_181990b.jpg" alt=" - " />
How about Bob the Builder, doesn't he plumb on occasion too?
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Originally posted by K8teebug:
I miss Mario and Luigi.
See: Immigration Reform.
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awesome.... the buzz on the intertubes is that joe the plumber isn't even registered to vote, is somehow related to charles keating, was on msnbc rattling off gop talking point and is against social security... do i smell an unvetted plant?
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Originally posted by ixkpd-bk:
Originally posted by K8teebug:
I miss Mario and Luigi.
See: Immigration Reform. [/b]
my candidate for POTW.
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bob the builder is more of a general contractor
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looks like NPR (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95767079) and BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/us_elections_2008/7673170.stm) heard my question.
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Either him or his son is a Juggalo.
Originally posted by kosmo:
awesome.... the buzz on the intertubes is that joe the plumber isn't even registered to vote, is somehow related to charles keating, was on msnbc rattling off gop talking point and is against social security... do i smell an unvetted plant?
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Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
bob the builder is more of a general contractor
well it's one of those quirks of the english language... the word plumb has several meanings one of which in it's verb form 2 a: to measure the depth of with a plumb... and a plumb is a tool used by builders...
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Originally posted by kosmo:
Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
bob the builder is more of a general contractor
well it's one of those quirks of the english language... the word plumb has several meanings one of which in it's verb form 2 a: to measure the depth of with a plumb... and a plumb is a tool used by builders... [/b]
a plumbbob
<img src="http://www.meridiangallery.org/images/Plumb%20Bob.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Is this what happens when the GOP is afraid of losing Virginia? This is the back of an official GOP mailer going out around the Commonwealth.
<img src="http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/images/2008/10/16/122416544620081016vagopevileye5.jpg" alt=" - " />
Full article here, as well as context on the full mailer. (http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/virginia_gop_mailer_appears_to.php)
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thank link has Obama ahead in North Dakota.
really? north dakota??? no way.
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joe the plumber blog radio appreciation set on siruis left of center right now. channel 26. xm sucked; that's why they don't exist anymore.
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Originally posted by very sonick:
thank link has Obama ahead in North Dakota.
really? north dakota??? no way.
The most recent polling - and the only poll conducted in October - has him ahead, but there hasn't been an additional poll confirming it yet. Could be just one outlier. But North Dakota - and Montana, for that matter - has been surprisingly close for the entire campaign.
http://www.pollster.com/polls/nd/08-nd-pres-ge-mvo.php (http://www.pollster.com/polls/nd/08-nd-pres-ge-mvo.php)
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
Originally posted by ixkpd-bk:
Originally posted by K8teebug:
I miss Mario and Luigi.
See: Immigration Reform. [/b]
my candidate for POTW. [/b]
Ditto.
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mario and luigi were born in america.
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nope - japan.
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
nope - japan.
nope. redmond, washington. mario came from nintendo's landlord, and luigi came from a pizza shop owner. both based in america. the creator was from japan.
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just to be clear, we're talking about mario and luigi from the mario bros video game.
you said "born in america" - those characters were created (aka "born") in japan, because that's where someone came up with them, designed them, coded them, etc. yes, in the story, they are plumbers in NYC.
</dork>
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nerds
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the names/identities of the characters (thus born) were created in america. nothing to do with where they work.
and yes, i am a dork. thank you.
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Yeah, this back and forth is even too geeky for me.
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
nerds
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Originally posted by kosmo:
awesome.... the buzz on the intertubes is that joe the plumber isn't even registered to vote, is somehow related to charles keating, was on msnbc rattling off gop talking point and is against social security... do i smell an unvetted plant?
update: cause it's the fair and balanced thing to do... mr. jt plumber is indeed registered just under a slightly different spelling of his name, probably just a data entry typo but something that could have gotten him disenfranchised were he a newly registered voter in oh...
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Latest is that he doesn't even have a plumbing license and owes a bunch of money in back taxes.
He also admitted to NBC that Obama's tax increase won't be affecting him at all.
Yet another epic fail for McCain.
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next thing we know, he really is not bald.
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Even better - Joe the Plumber is a relative of Charles Keating!
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/the-vetting-of.html (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/the-vetting-of.html)
From the HuffPost article Sullivan cites:
"Anyway, back to Robert Wurzelbacher, Joe the Plumber's father. You see, Robert Wurzelbacher was an executive of American Continental Corporation, the parent company of Charles Keating's Lincoln Savings. That's the bank which caused citizens to lose their life savings and cost U.S. taxpayers $3.4 billion. As part of that scandal, Robert Wurzelbacher pleaded guilty to three counts of misapplying $14 million and served 40 months in prison."
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License article (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27207215/)
The Keating thing is too funny!
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according to another forum, joe has a profile on manhunt.com (notorious gay website) not sure if that is true.
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Originally posted by azaghal1981:
License article (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27207215/)
The Keating thing is too funny!
He said the business consists of owner Al Newell and him. Wurzelbacher said he's worked there for six years and that the two have talked about his taking it over at some point.
two guys and they are netting $250k? i call bullshit
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Don't we all?
Originally posted by walkonby:
according to another forum, joe has a profile on manhunt.com (notorious gay website) not sure if that is true.
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Originally posted by callat703:
Even better - Joe the Plumber is a relative of Charles Keating!
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/the-vetting-of.html (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/the-vetting-of.html)
From the HuffPost article Sullivan cites:
"Anyway, back to Robert Wurzelbacher, Joe the Plumber's father. You see, Robert Wurzelbacher was an executive of American Continental Corporation, the parent company of Charles Keating's Lincoln Savings. That's the bank which caused citizens to lose their life savings and cost U.S. taxpayers $3.4 billion. As part of that scandal, Robert Wurzelbacher pleaded guilty to three counts of misapplying $14 million and served 40 months in prison."
Awh, sad. This would have been amazing if true:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/16/133831/42/1001/632600 (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/16/133831/42/1001/632600)
Robert M. Wurzelbacher, son-in-law of Keating, was 37 years old in 1991 when federal charges were filed against Keating. It appears that he has addresses in Phoenix and Coronado, CA.
The Robert M. Wurzelbacher of Milford, OH, a heavy donor to GOP candidates, is 83 years old and retired. They're not the same person.
Digging to see if this guy is a plant or a hypocrite is a good idea. But I think it's equally important to know the link before idle speculation.
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The premise that Obama's tax plan would affect this guy's ability to buy out his partner is a joke.
Its also weird that this is a real guy. McCain was talking like he was a made up character like when he said "Congratulations Joe, you're rich." But he's not rich.
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Ahh yes, let's all completely ignore the basis of why Joe the Plumber got brought up. . .obama told him that taxes should go up so that government can facilitate wealth redistribution. now, i realize that nearly all of y'all here are more than supportive of that concept. . but, there's a lot of people outside of the east and west coasts that would rather not the government do that. . .
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Ahh yes, let's all completely ignore the basis of why Joe the Plumber got brought up. . .obama told him that taxes should go up so that government can facilitate wealth redistribution. now, i realize that nearly all of y'all here are more than supportive of that concept. . but, there's a lot of people outside of the east and west coasts that would rather not the government do that. . .
Maybe true, though I don't know that this one statement is going to stick to Obama as indicative of his entire plan. It certainly is a poor phrasing of what increasing taxes on the rich will accomplish - but you certainly could reduce it this way, as many conservative commentators already have. But you're completely ignoring the basis of what we're bringing up: that it seems like there isn't any reason to believe anything John McCain says anymore.
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Ahh yes, let's all completely ignore the basis of why Joe the Plumber got brought up. . .obama told him that taxes should go up so that government can facilitate wealth redistribution. now, i realize that nearly all of y'all here are more than supportive of that concept. . but, there's a lot of people outside of the east and west coasts that would rather not the government do that. . .
wow, someone actually got the point.
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Ahh yes, let's all completely ignore the basis of why Joe the Plumber got brought up. . .obama told him that taxes should go up so that government can facilitate wealth redistribution. now, i realize that nearly all of y'all here are more than supportive of that concept. . but, there's a lot of people outside of the east and west coasts that would rather not the government do that. . .
you mean the people from the square states?
well there are a lot fewer of them and last time i checked majority rules in this country!
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Originally posted by callat703:
Maybe true, though I don't know that this one statement is going to stick to Obama as indicative of his entire plan. It certainly is a poor phrasing of what increasing taxes on the rich will accomplish - but you certainly could reduce it this way, as many conservative commentators already have. But you're completely ignoring the basis of what we're bringing up: that it seems like there isn't any reason to believe anything John McCain says anymore.
is not obama's entire income tax plan (as opposed to capital gains, payroll and dividend tax plan, which is the issue economists have with obama's tax plan) premised on increasing taxes on those making above $250,000? isn't that nothing more than government sponsored redistribution, not to mention an extremely progressive and potentially crippling tax hike (sorry, had to throw that in there; i'm not ashamed of my libertarian-ness)?
let's not forget, government intervention isn't always the best (http://www.newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx?RelNum=5409) thing in an economic panic.
btw, this is an interesting fact check (http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/23776.html)
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Originally posted by very sonick:
well there are a lot fewer of them and last time i checked majority rules in this country!
<cue mankie to rail against the electoral college>
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Ahh yes, let's all completely ignore the basis of why Joe the Plumber got brought up.
ok, let's not. joe the plumber claimed that obama's tax plan will hurt him. but:
And his question to Mr. Obama about paying taxes? According to some tax analysts, if Mr. Wurzelbacherâ??s gross receipts from his business is $250,000 â?? and not his taxable income â?? then he would not have to pay higher taxes under Mr. Obamaâ??s plan, and probably would be eligible for a tax cut. (source (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/joe-in-the-spotlight/))
personally, i don't see anything wrong with redistribution. if this country enables you to make $250k or more, you can pay an extra 4% in taxes - and only on the amount above $250k. the current government has been redistributing for 7 years now - to oil companies, big business and the rich. i don't get why folks are so quick to run to the defense of the $250k set.
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b/c small companies that register as sole proprietorships deserve this...
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Joe The Plumber is a c*nt
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
personally, i don't see anything wrong with redistribution. if this country enables you to make $250k or more, you can pay an extra 4% in taxes - and only on the amount above $250k. the current government has been redistributing for 7 years now - to oil companies, big business and the rich. i don't get why folks are so quick to run to the defense of the $250k set.
of course you don't. but i, for one, do not support socialism (http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/10/16/did-barack-spread-the-wealth-obama-just-blow-the-election.html).
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
personally, i don't see anything wrong with redistribution.
me neither, but we're Canadian, remember!
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with obama vs mccain youre arguing shades of protectionism at best
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And here I was thinking that being super smart and working your fucking ass off was what enabled someone to make 250K per year.
But according to you, it's the country that is responsible for this.
Originally posted by sweetcell:
Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Ahh yes, let's all completely ignore the basis of why Joe the Plumber got brought up.
ok, let's not. joe the plumber claimed that obama's tax plan will hurt him. but:
And his question to Mr. Obama about paying taxes? According to some tax analysts, if Mr. Wurzelbacherâ??s gross receipts from his business is $250,000 â?? and not his taxable income â?? then he would not have to pay higher taxes under Mr. Obamaâ??s plan, and probably would be eligible for a tax cut. (source (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/joe-in-the-spotlight/))
personally, i don't see anything wrong with redistribution. if this country enables you to make $250k or more, you can pay an extra 4% in taxes - and only on the amount above $250k. the current government has been redistributing for 7 years now - to oil companies, big business and the rich. i don't get why folks are so quick to run to the defense of the $250k set. [/b]
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are you saying that if you are super smart and work your ass off you can make that kind of money in any country? have to say that all three are factors
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Originally posted by very sonick:
Originally posted by sweetcell:
personally, i don't see anything wrong with redistribution.
me neither, but we're Canadian, remember! [/b]
Sweetcell is Canadian??
(I always thought the record label Secretly Canadian had a great name...)
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
And here I was thinking that being super smart and working your fucking ass off was what enabled someone to make 250K per year.
But according to you, it's the country that is responsible for this.
apparently you need to invest in a dictionary and look up the word that i used, "enable". hint: it's not the same as "responsible".
Originally posted by Christine Moritz:
Sweetcell is Canadian??
yup, guilty/privileged as charged.
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all these canadians...the board is starting to make a lot more sense now..
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yes, canadians do make more sense that what we have going on in this country.
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as much sense as that last post?
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wow, seven words. you are moving up in the world.
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yup, two canadians - no wonder conversation is so pinko here :roll:
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why did you decide to move away from the great socialist mecca that is canada?
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They both liked Black chicks, and there aren't any Black people in Canadia.
Originally posted by manimtired:
why did you decide to move away from the great socialist mecca that is canada?
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lol
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That's not true. They live in Tronno and are from Jamaica.
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
They both liked Black chicks, and there aren't any Black people in Canadia.
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
They both liked Black chicks, and there aren't any Black people in Canadia.
Originally posted by manimtired:
why did you decide to move away from the great socialist mecca that is canada?
[/b]
my high school was 40% black.
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Originally posted by manimtired:
lol
its fitting that manimtired's 1000 post is a
"lol"
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
[QB] And his question to Mr. Obama about paying taxes? According to some tax analysts, if Mr. Wurzelbacherâ??s gross receipts from his business is $250,000 â?? and not his taxable income â?? then he would not have to pay higher taxes under Mr. Obamaâ??s plan, and probably would be eligible for a tax cut. (source (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/joe-in-the-spotlight/))
btw, let's clarify this a bit. . .joe's question to obama about taxes was joe's concern about growing his business. it's absolutely true that today, joe's business wouldn't be above the $250K threshold, but, joe told obama that he wanted to grow his business, and he wanted to know if as a result of growing his business, he ended up making more than $250K would his taxes go up. obama said yes, joe said, well, why i should be punished for growing my small business and hiring more people just to end up having to pay more taxes. at this point obama noted his spread the wealth around, that by taxing successful people like joe, the government can then send that extra money to, shall we say, less successful people.
btw, not only is obama looking to increase income taxes, but it looks like he wants to increase social security (http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20081015/OPINION01/810150342/-1/caucus&theme=CAMPAIGN_2008) taxes (http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2008/10/obama-social-security-plan.html) as well.
so, if joe grew his company and made more than $250K, not only would his income taxes go up, so would his social security taxes to help cover a portion of the expected short-fall in the future (and, presumably, no increase in future benefits).
btw, who cares that 30% of american's don't pay taxes (http://www.spectator.org/archives/2008/10/16/searching-for-obamas-95-percen).
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yet another boogeyman raised by the GOP... obama's plan calls for a rise in the tax rate from 35% to 39% - only for the amount over $250,000. so let's say his income - not revenue, income - goes from $250k one year to $275k (a 10% raise, something few people can expect these days, btw). currently, he'd pay $96,250 in taxes. under obama's plan, he'd pay... drum roll please... $97,250. did his taxes go up? yup, by a grand. dude still takes home $177,750 (instead of $178,750). it's a call to arms!!! does anyone here seriously think that JtP made a decision to not buy the business based on ten benjamins?!? mountain out of a molehill, anyone?
as for the increase in social security taxes (which JtP never talked about, fyi): if this country wants a social security system, it NEEDS to increase money going in to it. people currently aren't contributing enough, haven't for a while now, and either revenue goes up or the system collapses. shall we continue the GOP's plan of ignoring the problem? yeah, very responsible. that's the kind of leadership we need - let's pass the buck on to the next generation.
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i can't stop the bowie song "joe the lion" from going round my head..
its a great song so not so bad..
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Originally posted by sweetcell:
as for the increase in social security taxes (which JtP never talked about, fyi): if this country wants a social security system, it NEEDS to increase money going in to it. people currently aren't contributing enough, haven't for a while now, and either revenue goes up or the system collapses. shall we continue the GOP's plan of ignoring the problem? yeah, very responsible. that's the kind of leadership we need - let's pass the buck on to the next generation.
well, republican's haven't ignored it, they've had a plan, but god forbid people be allowed to have a say over their own money. but, the fundamental problem is that there is not enough workers to support an increasing number of retirees. why should workers today pay more into a system that they have no reasonable expectation of benefiting from in the future?
also, 77.2 percent of economists agree that "the best way to deal with Social Security's long-term funding gap is to increase the normal retirement age." (http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2006/11/consensus-of-economists.html)
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Originally posted by nkotb:
Don't we all?
Originally posted by walkonby:
according to another forum, joe has a profile on manhunt.com (notorious gay website) not sure if that is true.
[/b]
This was a bad rumor, but yeah, who knows anymore. Everybody has a manhunt profile, right guyyys? :)
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Al Jazeera, of all sources, managed to capture the beady-eyed ignorance of McCain/Palin supporters better than any other video I've seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRqcfqiXCX0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRqcfqiXCX0)