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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: vansmack on July 02, 2003, 04:32:00 pm
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Running diary: MTV After Hours
So, I played hookie today and it rained. Great. So I was stuck inside watching the tele and TiVo taped MTV??s 3-6 AM show called "After Hours." 3 whole hours of videos ?? who knew MTV still played videos?! This has to be good.
So the show opens with a commercial about how MTV doesn??t play videos anymore. Gee thanks for playing videos, even if it is from 3-6 AM when all of us are up watching videos!
So apparently only black people are up at 3 AM because the first 4 videos have been hip hop and R&B artists. BTW, for those that aren??t hip to the general format of hip-hop and R&B artists these days, you have to be a one name female singer or a rapper with another rapper backing you up for any sort of legitimacy.
Monica, Mya, Pharell Williams with Jay-Z, 50 Cent with a posse of 20 people (not one of which is eminem ?? hmmm.) ?? all the chicks are in brightly lit areas and wearing little clothing. All the rappers are in throwback sports clothes and surround by their posse and scantily clad chicks dancing around them. ZZZzzzzzz - no artistic value whatsoever.
Hey, a white persons video ?? Metallica's "St. Anger." Apparently Metallica have stopped fighting their fans and put out a new video. Because all of their fans now hate them, they shot the video in San Quinten Federal prison where I??m sure nobody has heard about their fight with their fans. Of course, if one has, this could get ugly. The video opens with a guard explaining to Metallica that the prison has a no hostage policy ?? if they are taken hostage by the prisoners, the State (this being CA) will not negotiate the release of a prisoner for their release. We can only hope they??re taken hostage.
Apparently getting a tattoo and looking like thatguy is the only way to get into prison these days because that??s what every prisoner looks like. Not too many tall skinny clean cut guys in prison. What did they do with the Enron and WorldCom folks? They must be in serious lockup and not allowed to watch the video shoot.
Hey another new bass player for Metallica. Must be as tough as being the drummer for Pearl Jam.
The video ends with a surreal shot of a prisoner holding up his detached fake leg and hopping on his one real leg. That??s about the only redeeming quality of the video. Oh wait, they??ve topped it now:
??To all the souls impacted by San Quentin, your spirit will forever be a part of Metallica.? ?? James, Lars, Kirk and Robert
Must make that mother of the kid who was killed by a return inmate feel wonderful knowing that she is a part of Metallica. I move on.
Hey, more rapper (featuring posse) videos, oh and the Ruben Studdard area code thing is hip too.
There are a ton of commercials too. Thank god for TiVo and the FF button. Oh wait, Jewel ?? a retrospective commercial leading up to the slutty new Jewel. Someone needs to tell her that the TRL slutty girl window closes when you reach 20. This will be then end of Jewel. She will be at the birchmere before you know it reading poetry.
I??m really starting to think that only black people watch TV from 3-6. I??m looking for some opinions on this one.
Wait, a one named R&B act with a rapper sidekick ?? is this allowed? Beyonce?? (who clearly got the memo about dropping the last name) featuring Jay-Z. I think I??ve already seen this video ?? it was called Jenny from the Block.
Good Charlotte "Girls and Boys." No wonder they get booed on stage. These guys are terrible, but for video merit, the old people doing young people tricks is pretty funny. It??s much better on Mute though. What??s with bands wearing other current bands t-shirts in videos? It always been ways to promote new, lesser known bands, but slipknot probably doesn??t need GC??s help. And can slipknot say that a faggoty band cannot wear their t-shirts? Someone needs to do some research on this. I know this board protects Good Charlotte like you don??t let people find out about your alcoholic uncle, so I??ll just leave the mute button on and move on.
Ashanti??s up next. I thought she was dead. Moving on...
MTV NEWS: You heard it first, ??WhiteStarr? is LA??s new thing. Yawn. They??re from the emerging ??Malibu Music Scene? that cracked me up. Seriously, these guys have all the connections in the world through their fathers, do they really need MTV??s help. And only black people are watching right now, so why bother doing a report on the new "classic rock" act?
Just for the Rhett Market ?? Michelle Branch. I really can??t tell the difference between Norah Jones, Michelle Branch and the other one who??s name I can??t remember. I hope they go away soon.
This first hour has been painful. Lot??s of retro sports clothing ?? note to self ?? must go spend a fortune on retro sports jerseys that you threw away or donated to the good will years ago.
FINALLY. Maybe the white people wake up at 4 because it??s the new White Stripes Video. Not only does the new album sound amazing, this video is fucking cool too ?? fantastic artistry. It??s nice to see a band take both their music and their videos seriously. Although the video depicts Jack playing guitar through the bass line and we all know that??s not true. Maybe I should reconsider seeing them at the bigger venue. It??s super trippy in realtime, fast forward and fast reverese. Oops. I??m getting dizzy ?? must move on.
SWEET. Pink and the Charlie??s Angels. Can??t get too much T&A. Confession: I saw the making of this video and dug it (and I know all of the effects. Well they??re just special.) Smackette and I need to see this movie ?? I love McG. Anybody that puts ??smack my bitch up? in the background of a chick fight scene is a guy I need to have a drink with. Anyhow, Pink is the 4th Charlies Angel trying to stop the bad guys. Oh well, she??s not as hot but I??ll take it. Oh, and Bernie Mac is no Bosley. Who let that happen?
Back to the R&B videos. Wait a minute, it??s repeating. I just saw this ??Monica? video an hour ago. Jesus Christ ?? you only spend 3 hours a day playing videos and you run the same ones? This channel needs to be cancelled (except for surf girls, of course).
Jay-z gets around huh? This guys either in every rap video or in his own video by himself (breaking the featuring posse rule).
Why are you still reading this? Why am I still writing this?
Wow, they really do repeat. J-Lo, I mean Beyonce, again. This is pure crap. All the rap acts look and sound alike so maybe they??re not repeating, but it??s really tough to tell.
MTV NEWS: Apparently nothing else in the music biz except ??WhiteStarr? ?? hmmm.
Second hour. 5 videos and 37 million commercials. This is utterly disappointing.
Rut roh rorge. A Radiohead video. I??m just in awe at the rotation on MTV now. Anyhow, ??There There? from the $2 bill show. Do you think Clay Aiken is scared that he sees what he will look like in 20 years in Yorke? And if your ears are that bad already, does it help to use those earpieces on stage? Probably not. Anyhow, I??ve seen this $2 bill show and quite enjoyed it. I??m looking forward to seeing Radiohead (and I??m seeing them away from DC so the band will actually perform).
The last hour featured only repeat videos from before except the token white people??s music video from Linkin Park directed by, of all people, Mark Romaneck, who I generally enjoy. Linkin Park are shit though so I??m losing respect for Mark. Every Linkin Park song sounds exactly the same. The silhouette of the lead singer looked like Bono circa the Pop tour so you know how bad that must have been.
Madonnna looks like a strung out whore in her new video. That was great when she was 25, but now at 45, it's really kind of freaking me out. She must have made this video for the European audience because they wuold like this kind of trash.
I??m giving up on this ?? it??s all commercials and the same damn videos. There you have it - I have sacrificed an hour or two of my life to confirm that MTV is still shite. The same 8-10 videos with a couple rock videos thrown in for good measure. Will Britney please come out of retirement to save this?
You may all go back your regularly scheduled banter and screen name changing now.
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Hey Vansmack, thanks for that rather disturbing review. Next time you are critiquing something please dont choose MTV or take speed before hand.......
The white stripes video? is that the one where it is continually moving forward?
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The Sports Guy would be proud :D
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Originally posted by the scientist:
Hey Vansmack, thanks for that rather disturbing review. Next time you are critiquing something please dont choose MTV or take speed before hand.......
The white stripes video? is that the one where it is continually moving forward?
It was the new Mountain Dew Live Wire - good stuff.
And yes, that was the video. They keep an upside-down V coming at you with different pictures, mostly of Meg and Jack. It trips you out after a while.
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me thinks we should lock smackie in a room when they replay 24 in its entirity. or maybe inflict that throbbing gristle cd set on him, like cmj did to one of their writes. it's too bad i don't own The Stooges - 1970: The Complete Funhouse Sessions. i wonder what smackie would come with after 7 discs straight of outtakes, alternate versions etc. how would one feel after the hearing the 28th take of loose...
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
me thinks we should lock smackie in a room when they replay 24 in its entirity. or maybe inflict that throbbing gristle cd set on him, like cmj did to one of their writes. it's too bad i don't own The Stooges - 1970: The Complete Funhouse Sessions. i wonder what smackie would come with after 7 discs straight of outtakes, alternate versions etc. how would one feel after the hearing the 28th take of loose...
I actually did watch 24 on DVD one day and refused to watch the second season until it comes out on DVD. The drama is soooo much better in its entirety.
I'm going to do the same thing with the Lord of the Rings trilogy. I'm even thinking of taking a train somewhere to middle America and watching them on my laptop so I can't escape.
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i did the same thing with twin peaks a few years back. went straight through from the pilot to fire walk with me. yea for snow days.
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I am no expert on this, but wasnt fire walk with me a prequal to twin peaks? So shouldnt you have watched that first.
Changing tack.... I liked the white stripes video, even the song is finally growing on me. Does anyone think Elephant is really as good as their previous two albums though?
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Smackie, that was a pure work of genius! Thank you for that utterly entertaining and educational work of art. Much, much better than wasting 5 minutes of my precious life checking out what is, or isn't, happening on 'Anything But Music TV'.
Seriously, you should FedEx a formal copy of that to the President of MTV. Not that he cares what we White People over 14 think.
Markie, I am now convinced that you are turning into an old curmudgeon. :roll:
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<img src="http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/110302/we-hate-classic-rock.gif" alt=" - " />
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Originally posted by the scientist:
I am no expert on this, but wasnt fire walk with me a prequal to twin peaks? So shouldnt you have watched that first.
which would you've rather seen first: star wars or phantom menace? 'fire' is a waste of time unless you've seen the series beforehand.
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I feel like I've been blessed to have never lived under the roof of a house that had the scourge of cable tv/MTV (save for the year that I spent living with my parents right after grad school). I just remember occasionally seeing MTV in passing at places like the gym and getting really pissed that music was evolving into something where popularity was very dependendent on photogeneity rather than musical quality.
So it heartens me to hear that MTV doesn't play music videos anymore, and that hopefully the importance of music video has diminished. As Steve Earle once said, "God, I hate MTV."
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So you determined this while working out at the gym? You weren't trying to look better were you?
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I just remember occasionally seeing MTV in passing at places like the gym and getting really pissed that music was evolving into something where popularity was very dependendent on photogeneity rather than musical quality.
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Anybody who has ever seen me with my shirt off knows that I'm not working out to look good. More like working out to stay healthy and not let my love of food make me obese and unhealthy. :) I know, the smiley is totally unhip...
Originally posted by thirsty moore:
So you determined this while working out at the gym? You weren't trying to look better were you?
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I just remember occasionally seeing MTV in passing at places like the gym and getting really pissed that music was evolving into something where popularity was very dependendent on photogeneity rather than musical quality.
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Was I the only one that thought that review came off very ignorant and...... :eek: racist?
Perhaps too strong of a word and maybe the deadpan sarcastic wit of vansmack just flew over my head, but that's the impression I got.
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Ignorant, perhaps. But I think that was intended. Racist, no.
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Originally posted by cholo:
Was I the only one that thought that review came off very ignorant and...... :eek: racist?
Perhaps too strong of a word and maybe the deadpan sarcastic wit of vansmack just flew over my head, but that's the impression I got.
Ignorant: yes
Racist: no
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Originally posted by cholo:
Was I the only one that thought that review came off very ignorant and...... :eek: racist?
Perhaps too strong of a word and maybe the deadpan sarcastic wit of vansmack just flew over my head, but that's the impression I got.
Ignorant: yes
Racist: no
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Originally posted by cholo:
Was I the only one that thought that review came off very ignorant and...... :eek: racist?
Perhaps too strong of a word and maybe the deadpan sarcastic wit of vansmack just flew over my head, but that's the impression I got.
It may have flown over your head.
It was not intended as a racist piece and I am about the furthest thing from a racist. I was poking fun at MTV's blatant direct marketing at african americans from their choice of commercials to run and videos to air at 3 AM, the one time they actually choose to air videos. As far as the lack of artistry in rap videos, it's pretty obvious by watching so I won't explain my stance there.
But as Rhett pointed out, my ignorance was intended because nobody on this board wants to read a serious article about what one observer thinks MTV is trying to do with its marketing and video choices. Hell, I didn't think anybody wanted to read my humorous attempt at it either, but I was bored and felt like having some fun.
I'm sorry if it offended and please don't take my deadpan sarcastic wit literally at all. As usual, I was taking the piss for the most part.
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What commercials directly target-market an African-American audience? Probably if I watched more tv, I could hazzard a guess.
My wife was convinced that you must have been stoned when you wrote it. Probably if I had smoked more weed back in my youth, I could hazzard a guess at to the truth of that belief.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
What commercials directly target-market an African-American audience?
The ones for phone services that will give you a phone even if your current service was turned off because of your "cousin"...
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
My wife was convinced that you must have been stoned when you wrote it. Probably if I had smoked more weed back in my youth, I could hazzard a guess at to the truth of that belief.
I'll deal with your first inquiry in minute as it will take a bit more to write and apparently nobody gets my humor so I will have to be delicate. Think Colt 45 and other Malt Liquors. Now they do the same with soft drinks, fast food (less blatantly) and clothing (much more blatantly). Racial profiling is only illegal for the police - companies are paying millions of dollars to market to audiences based on race and gender. Do you think it was only a coincidence that after Denny's got into trouble for negatively profiling african-americans as customers, that their commercials started predominantly featuring african-americans?
Anyhow, never smoked a day in my life - not a cigarrette or weed. I was suffering from cabin fever intensified by Live Wire (the new Mountain Dew).
It was stream of consciousness that was intended to be humorous. That's all.
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Originally posted by Celeste:
QUOTE]The ones for phone services that will give you a phone even if your current service was turned off because of your "cousin"...
That's a prime example of a commercial that came on repeatedly during MTV After Hours.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Racial profiling is only illegal for the police - companies are paying millions of dollars to market to audiences based on race and gender...
Do you think it should be illegal to advertise to target markets?
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Why would somebody's phone service be turned off because of their cousin?
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Why would somebody's phone service be turned off because of their cousin?
I think that it is more common for African Americans to have larger extended families than caucasians and the suggestion is that one of many "cousins" may have come in and run up the phone bill, or that perhaps the person holding the account blamed a "cousin". Blacks often seem to have alot of "cousins".
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Originally posted by Celeste:
Do you think it should be illegal to advertise to target markets?
Absoltuely not. And that's the joke I was making - MTV did not think that the consumer market that I fit in would be watching the first 45 minutes of the MTV After Hours Show. It wasn't until Metallica came on, the MTV news piece, and the ensuing commercials that I felt MTV, Viacom and Comcast Cable thought maybe I was watching. Why? I'm not sure, it but it was absolutely intentional.
It's no different than the disproportionate amount of Tampax commercials that come on during Surf Girls. When I make a joke about that, some people laugh, but nobody thinks it's sexist. Everybody just says, you're not the target market for Surf Girls (not blatantly at least). If I notice a similar pattern and make a joke about it using race, some people think that's racist. The truth is, it's the same thing so I laugh when people accuse me of racism for pointing it out, especially when I do so in a joking manner.
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The thing is, I don't really believe that hip hop videos are necessarily going primarily for the black demographic. Hip hop record sales are overwhelmingly propped up by white suburban kids, and the black hip hop culture has merged with white youth culture so much that the plain fact is that in mainstream music, hip-hop is what's cool for everybody. Go to any club where 50 cent is playing and see the white girl to black girl booty-shaking ratio. You just can't divide it up that way anymore. Which is why I get very annoyed at all these Bringin' Down the House movies. The square-white-guy saying "Shizzle to my nizzle" is just not funny anymore, if it ever was. Youth culture isn't black/white so much as greyish now. So, that was my biggest reaction to your review: they aren't targeting the black market. They're targeting the youth market.
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Originally posted by Celeste:
I think that it is more common for African Americans to have larger extended families than caucasians and the suggestion is that one of many "cousins" may have come in and run up the phone bill, or that perhaps the person holding the account blamed a "cousin". Blacks often seem to have alot of "cousins".
Common misnomer. Religion is a bigger indicator of family size than race. And I would make a Catholic joke here to prove my point lest somebody not get it and take offense....
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I don't know about religion, but these figures
http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/race/black/tabs96/tab06-96.txt (http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/race/black/tabs96/tab06-96.txt)
seem to indicate that 11.3% of white households have more than 4 people, whereas 20.1% of black households have more than 4 people in them. Seems like blacks do have larger households.
Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by Celeste:
I think that it is more common for African Americans to have larger extended families than caucasians and the suggestion is that one of many "cousins" may have come in and run up the phone bill, or that perhaps the person holding the account blamed a "cousin". Blacks often seem to have alot of "cousins".
Common misnomer. Religion is a bigger indicator of family size than race. And I would make a Catholic joke here to prove my point lest somebody not get it and take offense.... [/b]
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Originally posted by SueAndNotU:
The thing is, I don't really believe that hip hop videos are necessarily going primarily for the black demographic. Hip hop record sales are overwhelmingly propped up by white suburban kids, and the black hip hop culture has merged with white youth culture so much that the plain fact is that in mainstream music, hip-hop is what's cool for everybody. .... They're targeting the youth market.
There in lies the joke, now doesn't it? I agree with you completely. If it were true it wouldn't be as funny (for the two of you thought it was funny). MTV has it all wrong. They should have been targeting the youth, but they weren't. They were blatantly targeting a different market.
When MTV first came out, it was all new wave for suburban kids. Then Yo MTV raps came on, then head bangers ball and they began to segment to different audiences. It seemed wise at the time, but eneded up being a disater. Remember when they tried to do blocks of videos? You would get 3 rap videos in a row with a little icon that said "Rock up next" and show a little clip of the rock videos that were coming up. they were trying to appease the marketers who wanted to target to core audiences. It was a disaster. MTV couldn't keep anybody's attention and their rating s plummetted. That's why they switched to shows instead of videos - they could keep more peoples attention for longer periods of time.
That's also why Carson Daly/TRL was so ingenius - they went after an age group and not a race. every attempt MTV has made to do videos correctly has failed and I was trying to point this out less illustratively in the Diary. I didn't give enough credit to my audience, obviously. I was going the humor route and now the serious route.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I don't know about religion, but these figures
http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/race/black/tabs96/tab06-96.txt (http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/race/black/tabs96/tab06-96.txt)
seem to indicate that 11.3% of white households have more than 4 people, whereas 20.1% of black households have more than 4 people in them. Seems like blacks do have larger households.
Marketing Companies don't look at statistics that broadly any longer. Gee, they must want bigger couches and tables too because they have more people? Nope. It's a myriad of things these days including location, religion, income and age demographics as well as race. That commercially is targeted more for an income level and not a race, though, and in some people's eyes wrongly, uses an african-american actress as the person who's phone is out. I happen to think for marketing purposes, she was used correctly.
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Smackie, I for one, got ever single word that you said and how it was intended. You have to remember though that you are in overly politically correct DC. A lot of these people have been very successfully brainwashed to jump on anyone who dares to even suggest the tiniest thing that goes against the PC party lines. The triggers have been deeply programmed into their psyches. They often assume all kinds of wrong ideas at the least little trigger without giving it any real thought as to the truth or intention.
As you stated later, no one has a problem with targeting young females for tampon commercials. And I would bet that if someone bitched that some commercial or video targeted the White community that no one would say that it was racist, unless it's to claim that it excludes Blacks. But the fact is, in real life, quite often, birds of a feather DO flock together.....by CHOICE and not by exclusion. Deal with it people. All groups do it, not just one or two. The marketers know this and are smart enough to find those niches and appeal to their wants, needs and desires. Diversity sometimes includes little pockets of like groups. Accept them instead of trying to break them up or we women will call out the PC police and force all of you men to watch as much Sex And The City as we do or call you a bunch of mysogynists if you refuse. :roll:
Where's Mankie? He'll love your work and take it for what it's worth...and nothing more.
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Granted that this is for the most part a lily- white folks board, I would be interested in hearing what other minorities think about topics like this that for whatever reason keep popping up on this board from time to time.
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Originally posted by Jaguär:
Smackie, I for one, got ever single word that you said and how it was intended. You have to remember though that you are in overly politically correct DC.
Where's Mankie? He'll love your work and take it for what it's worth...and nothing more.
I'm completely on with Jaguar. I thought the MTV late night/early morning video block (or, commercial block with videos) was great, funny and highly amusing. What the hell has happened to MTV? And the sad part is that it's slowly infiltrating MTV2 (it's already taken over VH1).
I was loving that MTV2 showed videos -- diverse videos with no commercials -- just a few years ago. That's being lost, though they did bring Headbangers' Ball back!
Question -- how does VH1 have a weekly top 20 videos show when they never show any videos???
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by SueAndNotU:
The thing is, I don't really believe that hip hop videos are necessarily going primarily for the black demographic. Hip hop record sales are overwhelmingly propped up by white suburban kids, and the black hip hop culture has merged with white youth culture so much that the plain fact is that in mainstream music, hip-hop is what's cool for everybody. .... They're targeting the youth market.
There in lies the joke, now doesn't it? I agree with you completely. If it were true it wouldn't be as funny (for the two of you thought it was funny). MTV has it all wrong. They should have been targeting the youth, but they weren't. They were blatantly targeting a different market.
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Maybe if the Rock music market starts to sell as much product as the R&B/ Hip-Hop market, then you'll see more "white music" on that channel. Could also be the reason why MTV-X was replaced with MTV-JAMS. I don't think it get's any more complex than that.
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Originally posted by Joy Monster:
Maybe if the Rock music market starts to sell as much product as the R&B/ Hip-Hop market, then you'll see more "white music" on that channel. Could also be the reason why MTV-X was replaced with MTV-JAMS. I don't think it get's any more complex than that.
Exactly. Or how about this article suggesting that Kobe Brynat's recent arrest for sexual assault will actually help his "street credibility" in the sports marketing industry - it suggests that he might actually sell more shoes because he may be considered a "bad guy" (but of course it would never be politically correct to say that).
http://espn.go.com/nba/s/2003/0707/1577650.html (http://espn.go.com/nba/s/2003/0707/1577650.html)
Dollars and social dynamics are driving MTV's choices as well - especially in commercials and video choices being lined up together.
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Originally posted by Joy Monster:
Maybe if the Rock music market starts to sell as much product as the R&B/ Hip-Hop market, then you'll see more "white music" on that channel.
Is that what you would call a vicious circle?
Or is it because hip-hop is still relatively young and vibrant compared to dinosaur rock?
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Or how about this article suggesting that Kobe Brynat's recent arrest for sexual assault will actually help his "street credibility" in the sports marketing industry - it suggests that he might actually sell more shoes because he may be considered a "bad guy" (but of course it would never be politically correct to say that).
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Out of curiosity, what would be the politically correct thing to say?
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Originally posted by Joy Monster:
Out of curiosity, what would be the politically correct thing to say?
"An athletes 'Street Credibility' has nothing to do with sales."
That's what people want to believe and that's the outside voice of marketers. You can put just about anything in between the single quotes that is controversial and get the same response: race, beliefs, relgious persuasion, It doesn't matter. But we live in a country where these terms create issues, and it's not politically correct to state that these things matter.
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Originally posted by the scientist:
Originally posted by Joy Monster:
Maybe if the Rock music market starts to sell as much product as the R&B/ Hip-Hop market, then you'll see more "white music" on that channel.
Is that what you would call a vicious circle?
Or is it because hip-hop is still relatively young and vibrant compared to dinosaur rock? [/b]
I think it's just a cycle and Hip-Pop is the current flavor. Disposable catchy songs, stylish clothing, the lingo, and a few interesting personalities. A lot of the stuff that MTV plays is flamboyant and over-the-top, much like what Rock music USED to be. There just hasn't been an interesting rock band to make a huge memorable impression on the public over the past couple of years.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by Joy Monster:
Out of curiosity, what would be the politically correct thing to say?
"An athletes 'Street Credibility' has nothing to do with sales."
That's what people want to believe and that's the outside voice of marketers. You can put just about anything in between the single quotes that is controversial and get the same response: race, beliefs, relgious persuasion, It doesn't matter. But we live in a country where these terms create issues, and it's not politically correct to state that these things matter. [/b]
If anyone believes that "Street Cred" has nothing to do with sales, then I have a bridge to sell them.
I'm not to sure that it can be a realistic idea in this day and age to say that it doesn't matter when it clearly does.
But what kind of "Street Credibility" are you referring to? I mean, Michael Jackson, Mike Tyson, and to a point R. Kelly had some street credibility and more importantly, garnered some kind of respect until they were accused of variuos situations containing possible sexual assaults.
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Originally posted by Joy Monster:
If anyone believes that "Street Cred" has nothing to do with sales, then I have a bridge to sell them.
I'm not to sure that it can be a realistic idea in this day and age to say that it doesn't matter when it clearly does.
But what kind of "Street Credibility" are you referring to? I mean, Michael Jackson, Mike Tyson, and to a point R. Kelly had some street credibility and more importantly, garnered some kind of respect until they were accused of variuos situations containing possible sexual assaults.
Mike Tyson is the best example. He pulls more money for pay per view fights than the current heavyweight champion, Lennox Lewis, who pummelled Tysons ass in their last fight.
Why does Tyson draw so much? Because you never know what he's going to do, but you can bet he's going to do something totally off thw wall and appalling. And like biting someones ear off in the ring, it could be illegal.
Look at Alan Iverson as well. Reebok offered him a lifetime contract after he was arrested for the fracas outside the bar involving the gun. Neither him nor LeBron James are as "polished" as Kobe so inner-city kids can relate better (to use the words right out of marketing companies mouths). They use the word "polished" to describe the difference between KG and T-Mac who haven't been arrested, but didn't have the posh upbringing as Kobe. Apparently, the kids can't relate.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Originally posted by Joy Monster:
If anyone believes that "Street Cred" has nothing to do with sales, then I have a bridge to sell them.
I'm not to sure that it can be a realistic idea in this day and age to say that it doesn't matter when it clearly does.
But what kind of "Street Credibility" are you referring to? I mean, Michael Jackson, Mike Tyson, and to a point R. Kelly had some street credibility and more importantly, garnered some kind of respect until they were accused of variuos situations containing possible sexual assaults.
Mike Tyson is the best example. He pulls more money for pay per view fights than the current heavyweight champion, Lennox Lewis, who pummelled Tysons ass in their last fight.
Why does Tyson draw so much? Because you never know what he's going to do, but you can bet he's going to do something totally off thw wall and appalling. And like biting someones ear off in the ring, it could be illegal.
Look at Alan Iverson as well. Reebok offered him a lifetime contract after he was arrested for the fracas outside the bar involving the gun. Neither him nor LeBron James are as "polished" as Kobe so inner-city kids can relate better (to use the words right out of marketing companies mouths). They use the word "polished" to describe the difference between KG and T-Mac who haven't been arrested, but didn't have the posh upbringing as Kobe. Apparently, the kids can't relate. [/b]
Tyson was a boxing icon at his height so that's where the interest for him comes from. At one point, he was thought to be unbeatable. Now, he's thought of as a side-show freak who constantly does something stupid. Reading and watching what Tyson does is interesting... almost in a way as watching someone who has Tourettes Syndrome.
I think Iverson signed that extention shortly before that gun incident and before Reebok's financial troubles.
Iverson has street cred because he was raised in the projects, had a criminal history of jail time before he was 19, and was pushing drugs and selling firearms before he hit college. To a some of urban youth, he's has more 'street cred' than Bryant. But at least their images weren't manufactured by any major corporations. Whether some like it or not, black urban youths are the current trend setters for stuff like music and fashion. More white kids buy those shoes than blacks kids.
For the record, Kobe's shoes from Adidas are shit! They're ugly and have about as much tight performance as a pair of roller skates.