930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: markie on December 22, 2005, 04:31:00 pm
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<img src="http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/cocksbuyporsches.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Q: What's the difference between and porcupine and a Porsche?
A: The porcupine has the pricks on the outside.
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I drive a VW, it's the same as a Porsche, only slower and not as nice and you can't attract women in it...
Did I mention that it has a CD player and dual beverage holders?
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Originally posted by Shadrach:
I drive a VW, it's the same as a Porsche, only slower and not as nice and you can't attract women in it...
Did I mention that it has a CD player and dual beverage holders?
Flower holder or no flower holder?
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Originally posted by Sir HC:
Originally posted by Shadrach:
I drive a VW, it's the same as a Porsche, only slower and not as nice and you can't attract women in it...
Did I mention that it has a CD player and dual beverage holders?
Flower holder or no flower holder? [/b]
It's a Jetta, so it doesn't come with the flower holder.
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Jetta! (http://www.gay.com/content/slideshow/?coll=290&order=2&navpath=/channels/style/auto/slideshow/)
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Originally posted by Shadrach:
I drive a VW, it's the same as a Porsche, only slower and not as nice and you can't attract women in it...
A vw is the same as a Porsche huh? Is that what you tell the chicks in the bar?
For that last fucking]/b] time, here's the story regarding the relationship between VW and Porsche....
In many ways the Porsche resembles the beetle-shaped Volkswagen. It should, since it is a direct descendant; but its heritage goes back almost to the beginnings of the automobile age. The Porsche is the distilled essence of almost fifty years of success, failure, and experimentation. One might say that the modern Porsche really began in 1902 when Dr. Ferdinand Porsche built his first car. That car was the Lohner electric. It was quite remarkable because of its method of power transmission. A gasoline engine drove a generator which supplied power to electric motors mounted right on the wheel hubs! What is important about this type of drive is that it showed Porsche's early preoccupation with power transmission. He always wanted the power as close to the driving wheels as possible, a system which does away with long drive shafts. This thinking is reflected in both the Volkswagen and Porsche cars which have the engines mounted adjacent to the driving rear axle.
After building the Lohner, Dr. Porsche moved ahead rapidly. He has had a hand in the design of more cars and components than possibly any other engineer. Following the Lohner he designed or improved cars for Panhard, Austro-Daimler, Mercedes-Benz, Auto-Union, Volkswagen, Renault, and Cisitalia. Many of his innovations are used throughout the entire industry. Torsion-bar suspension, swing axles, the opposed cylinder engine, and the entire rear-engine concept were either developed or improved on the drawing board of Ferdinand Porsche. Yet it was not until 1947 that a car bore his name.
If we are to call the Porsche the son of Volkswagen, we should also mention that much of the engineering was done by Dr. Porsche's own son, Ferry. In 1930 Dr. Porsche formed his own engi neering'firm, and young Ferry joined it as soon as he could qualify. It was during the great turmoil that accompanied the design of the Volkswagen during the late thirties that Porsche conceived the idea of a sports-type Volkswagen. During 1938 he worked out the exact plans. The car was to be similar to the VW in every way except the frame and body. It would use a V W engine, but highly modified to provide more power. Transmission and running gear were to be the same except for higher stressing to handle the stronger thrust. Shortly before World War II this car was actually constructed and tested, but the plans were laid aside due to the military emergency.
Just before the end of the war Allied forces discovered the Wolfsburg factory where the VW's were built. A further search led to the seventy-year old Dr. Porsche at Gmund in southern Austria. The British army interned him in his own house until the French requested his services. These services were to be in the form of assistance in the design of a small rear-engined Renault. Porsche's knowledge of rear-engine design was invaluable to the Renault firm, and the car they finally built with his aid is the familiar 4-CV. But the war was a bitter experience, and the French authorities regarded him as an enemy. Porsche was jailed in 1945 and remained in the custody of the French until 1947. Ferry Porsche petitioned time and time again for the old man's release, and finally the French agreed - if a bond of one million francs would be posted. This was well beyond the means of the family, but it was Dr. Porsche's reputation that finally freed him. Somebody wanted him to build a car. It was Piero Dusio, former racing driver and head of the Cisitalia firm. Dusio guaranteed the bond because he wanted Porsche to design a racing car.
His health broken, but still full of automotive ideas, Dr. Porsche returned to his home and designed the Cisitalia. Ferry had already done the basic work and his father added the refinements. Like every other car he created, the Cisitalia was full of innovations. It was designed to conform to the 1.5-liter racing formula of the time, but its tiny twelve-cylinder engine was capable of developing 450 horsepower. The engine was rear mounted, of course, but the truly startling idea was a four-wheel drive! This was unheard of on a racing car, but no one could protest against the sure-footed traction of four driving wheels. In addition the front-wheel drive could be cut in and out at the driver's will. The Cisitalia firm moved to Argentina shortly after the car was built, and the machine was never seriously raced.
The short-lived Cisitalia episode served a fine purpose. It started Dr. Porsche on the road to his own sports car. The first Porsche was produced in 1947 and exhibited to the public in 1949. It has been a success ever since. In 1950, at the age of seventy-five, Dr. Porsche died. This was a man whose career began shortly after the beginnings- of the automobile; a man whose engineering genius was applied to almost every phase of the development of the automobile; a man who will not be forgotten because of the automobile that bears his name.
BTW...Porsche were a major factor in the design for the Harley Davidson V-Rod...does that make a Harley the same as a Porsche? :roll:
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I drive a Corolla...pretty much the same thing as a Porsche but with better gas mileage.
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<img src="http://www.edmunds.com/media/reviews/generations/honda.civic/77.honda.civichatchback.500.jpg" alt=" - " />
I drive a Civic hatchback. It's like an SUV, only smaller. And it gets 35 MPG.
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I drive a Mazda3, it's like a Corvette only bigger. And bigger is better.
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There are a lot more recent links between VW and Porsche:
The last VW boss was Ferdinand Piech who was Ferdinand Porsche's grandson.
Porsche just made a major investment in VW: http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/panamera/ (http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/panamera/)
They have collaborated on vehicles a few times most notably the Porsche 924: a crappy car with a crappy VW engine and more recently the toureg.
But a jetta is about as close to a porsche as a a ford escort.
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Wow, clearly the concept of sarcasm is lost on some people.
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Originally posted by Shadrach:
Wow, clearly the concept of sarcasm is lost on some people.
I can only speak for myself, but quite the contrary actually.
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Originally posted by Chaz, Lover of all Beings:
Originally posted by Shadrach:
Wow, clearly the concept of sarcasm is lost on some people.
I can only speak for myself, but quite the contrary actually. [/b]
Not quite sure I know what you're saying here? I get your claim to be in the know when it comes to sarcasm, but are you saying that sarcasm is never lost on "some" people?
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Originally posted by MTB-Markie:
<img src="http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/cocksbuyporsches.jpg" alt=" - " />
I had no idea Porsches were so popular in South Carolina. Thanks for clearing that up.
<img src="http://www.ilovebacon.com/010902/gococks.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Beets, do you really have a Civic that old? That's an awesome car. I had an 88 Civic and it lasted 15 years before I finally got rid of it. Loved that car.
The VW Jetta is basically a Porsche with a different skin. They are built on the same assembly line in Wolfsburg. They take a Porsche engine, file the Porsche ID info off it, re-stamp it with VW information, and drop it into a Jetta body. You get yourself a VW Jetta V6 GLI, you can take on any but the top of the line Porsche at a light and win. Same suspension system too, tweaked a bit for the Jetta's larger size. Porsche downplays this information because they need the volume sales that VW production affords, but don't want to lose their niche market.
By the way, if you want to see a real asshole, look at the driver of a Porsche SUV.
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Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
Beets, do you really have a Civic that old? That's an awesome car. I had an 88 Civic and it lasted 15 years before I finally got rid of it. Loved that car.
Nah, not nearly that old, just a decrepit '91. I just liked that pic a lot more. Check out those whitewalls...
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D'oh! I didn't notice the whitewalls before, that's hilarious!
Just to warn you, when I finally decided to sell my '88 Civic, I couldn't find a buyer at any price... I finally donated it to Goodwill for a tax deduction...
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Your sarcasm was indeed lost on me, but in my defence I sold Porsche's for over 10 years (before defecting to Ferrari/Maserati) and if I had a $1 for everytime some prick made the "Porsche is just an overpriced VW really" I would be up with Bill Gates in the bank account stakes! I personally think Porsche took a major step in the wrong direction with the introduction of the water cooled 996, then totally lost the plot with the Cayenne. Porsche's finances will disagree with me, but I'm strictly speaking out of nostalga. When this business makes me rich I will buy a 993 as a toy, because I still think it's the most enjoyable sports car to drive, (if you know how to drive it) and I would also buy a Maserati Quattroporte as the family car.
The reality is, if you drive a car that's less than 10 years old, Porsche most likely had something to do with it's development, they r&d for just about every manufacture out there.
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Whatever, there's only one vehicle worth its weight....
<img src="http://www.cadillacforums.com/cadillac-models/escalade-4.jpg" alt=" - " />
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I like the way you pimped yours out: <img src="http://diesel.yub.com/root/1/94922294/96417105/73994562.jpg" alt=" - " />
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i'm angling to get one of these bad boyz...
<img src="http://www.tportal.hr/oglasnik/Uploaded%5C745b1433-40ca-411e-ac4d-7f9a5f8e8177%5Caeea9849-c16d-4fdf-a140-d2d0befe416e%5Cfad1d0db-224c-4902-9917-99209ebd13b6_normal.jpg" alt=" - " />
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We'll still be sharing the 95 Saturn for a few more years, then we'll get a second car.
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I want that new Bugatti, the one that goes through a tank of gas in 12 minutes if you're doing top speed.
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer:
We'll still be sharing the 95 Saturn for a few more years, then we'll get a second car.
we've got a 92 - 175k+ miles and still going strong - love that car
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But you would go 50 miles in 12 minutes....
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Good to hear. We're just about ready for our 120K mile tuneup, no major problems. Even the cassette deck still works.
Originally posted by brennser:
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer:
We'll still be sharing the 95 Saturn for a few more years, then we'll get a second car.
we've got a 92 - 175k+ miles and still going strong - love that car [/b]
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Anyway, to get back to the topic at hand, I guess I am a Porsche driver, since I drive a VW.
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Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
since I drive a VW.
We know. (http://www.gay.com/content/slideshow/?coll=290&order=2&navpath=/channels/style/auto/slideshow/)
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"The more you drive, the less intelligent you are."
<img src="http://www.rageboy.com/images/repo-miller-to-bud.jpg" alt=" - " />
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What do Dutch Scousers (http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1135767181/Top_Gear_Spyker_C8_Review) drive?
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Originally posted by MTB-Markie:
Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
since I drive a VW.
We know. (http://www.gay.com/content/slideshow/?coll=290&order=2&navpath=/channels/style/auto/slideshow/) [/b]
You like to surf gay.com?
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Originally posted by Hanover Fiste:
What do Dutch Scousers (http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1135767181/Top_Gear_Spyker_C8_Review) drive?
Not a bad ride for a scally, although I wouldn't take it home, I'd leave it at scouse-granny's in Southport. Those wheels would stay on that car for ooooooh, 10-15 minutes at best.
NOW! Here's the car for the far more sophisticated and swarve Mancunian.
<img src="http://www.bris.ac.uk/Depts/Union/MotorClub/gallery/motorshow/Invicta%20S1%201.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Originally posted by Doctor Doom:
You like to surf gay.com?
<img src="http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/owned-34239.jpg" alt=" - " />
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What is that? The new Dodge Viper?
Originally posted by Roadbike Mankie:
NOW! Here's the car for the far more sophisticated and swarve Mancunian.
<img src="http://www.bris.ac.uk/Depts/Union/MotorClub/gallery/motorshow/Invicta%20S1%201.jpg" alt=" - " />
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It is an invicta. The style is a rip off of an aston martin and the engine is probably a Ford V8.
I thought manly mancs wanted TVR's?
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Originally posted by HoyaParanoia:
Me and Doom sitting up a tree K I S S I N G
Get a room!
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Originally posted by MTB-Markie:
Get a room!
is this your wet dream, or am i mixing up the republ-i-cans in here?
<img src="http://blogs.salon.com/0001444/images/2004/08/10/bush%20and%20mccain%20get%20a%20room.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Originally posted by HoyaParanoia:
is this your wet dream?
Only if that is you and Doom and you are about let him bleed to death in the bath whilst eating his penis (http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/article/0,2763,1135725,00.html).
I am not an American. I cannot vote in this country. I have no political allegiance . I do not think you should misunderestimate Bush.
You are confusing me with GGW, Rob Gee or Venerable Bede. The boards 3 wise monkeys.
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Will a Ford van (http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1135852351/Top_Gear_Nürburgring) best a Jaguar at Nürburgring? Well...?
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I love Top Gear, I wish they'd show more of it here in the States.
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VW's American Road Trip
As Its Sales Continue to Drag, German Automaker Assigns A Team to Study U.S. Drivers
By GINA CHON
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
January 4, 2006; Page B1
MALIBU, Calif. â?? For years, Volker Jagodzinski, brought up in the no-nonsense cockpits of German cars, couldn't understand why Americans treat their automobiles like rolling extensions of their living rooms.
Then the Volkswagen AG engineer spent 3½ grueling hours on a Greyhound bus from Seattle to Portland, Ore., and saw the vast distances Americans journey in their cars -- and why so few resort to trains or buses.
"If you lose your car here, you're done," Mr. Jagodzinski says. "I was surprised by the amount of time people spent in their cars."
His road trip was a part of a Volkswagen project dubbed "Moonraker," a year-and-a-half-long effort to gain a deeper understanding of American culture in hopes of making cars more appealing to U.S. consumers.
The project shows how far car makers are willing to go these days to get inside the heads of their customers. Auto manufacturers have long used focus groups to get feedback on models in development, but many go well beyond that. Ford Motor Co. now creates an imaginary persona for the target customer of new models -- inventing, for example, an Asian-American teacher in her early 30s named Jenny for its just-launched Fusion. DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group even creates rooms to reflect the personalities of these imaginary customers. (See Chrysler's made-up customers get real living space at agency.)
Volkswagen's Moonraker is part of an effort to turn around the fortunes of the company's U.S. operation, where it has lost more than $1 billion in each of the past two years as a result of declining sales, unfavorable exchange rates and quality problems. It hasn't helped that for years engineers in VW's headquarters in Wolfsburg, Germany, paid little attention to feedback from U.S. customers asking for roomier, more functional vehicles such as minivans and sport-utility vehicles.
The first results of the effort will be on display this week at the Los Angeles auto show, where VW will unveil a fun, high-tech, three-wheel concept vehicle geared toward the Southern California market, described as a combination of its sporty GTI and a motorcycle.
Although the company has its American headquarters in Auburn Hills, Mich., and a design center in Simi Valley, Calif. (which helped develop the auto show car), the U.S. never had a strong voice in Wolfsburg.
"We needed a totally different approach," says Stefan Liske, VW's director of product strategy and creator of Moonraker. "We asked ourselves, 'Do we really know everything about this market?' "
In December 2004, VW put together the Moonraker team of 19 European and four U.S. engineering, marketing, design and sales staffers. Two months later, the team members came to the U.S. to live and work until June 2006. In their first 24 days in the country, the team traveled to 24 states, visiting the Mall of America in Bloomington, Minn., the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland and the World of Coca-Cola museum in Atlanta. In Dallas, the members went to a rodeo and a drag race. In Daytona Beach, Fla., they found out what spring break means for American high-school and college students. They also tried out every form of transportation, including taking subway rides, driving rental cars and taking red-eye flights. They had to drive a different vehicle every week.
The Moonraker staffers say they've learned a lot about American car buyers, like why storage space is so important to them and why they can never have enough speakers in a vehicle. While Germans prize a car's driving capability and frown on eating while driving, the Moonraker team found Americans think of their cars like a second home or office.
"In Germany, it's all about driving, but here, it's about everything but driving," says VW designer Reto Brun. "People here want to use their time in other ways, like talk on their cellphone."
When not on the road, the group of three women and 20 men work together in a 12,000 square-foot secluded home in Malibu, which was chosen because it's a trendsetting area. Half of the team also live at the Malibu home, which is covered with posters and charts that feature data about Volkswagen and its competitors. Some of the posters show pictures of consumers Volkswagen has interviewed through ride-alongs and other programs.
For a day, Mr. Jagodzinski shadowed a single mother, traveling with her to drop her children off at school and pick up dry cleaning. On one of these trips he realized American moms could really use a place to store a tissue box and space to put down burgers from the drive-through.
"I began thinking about what specific features her car needed," he says. "It was about living the customer's life and putting ourselves in their place."
One big revelation from Nascar: tailgating. When Jens Berger, a fan of the more-staid Formula One races, walked into a parking lot at the Atlanta Motor Speedway, he was surprised to see many of the fans there listening to the competition on the radio instead of watching the race. And he didn't understand why they had set up a makeshift campground there. The Germans in the group never knew Americans use their cars as portable buffets tables and partymobiles, a discovery that could factor into future vehicles, such as a minivan.
One exhausting exercise was dubbed the "Walk of Pain" -- a three-day walk from Long Beach to Hollywood to observe parking lots and street parking, a requirement for each Moonraker team member. Mr. Berger said it helped him realize that in the U.S. market there is a need for a wide variety of vehicles: from small cars to pickups to convertibles. "You could clearly see the different requirements for mobility," he said.
Although Volkswagen has been receptive to Moonraker's suggestions, the team still finds it hard at times to get its message across to Germany. For example, it's been difficult to convey the importance of cupholders because it sounds trivial to headquarters staff. Sensitizing colleagues in Wolfsburg to American needs is why the team has been making two to three short movies a month that include interviews with consumers and clips of the Moonraker team at various events.
It seems to be working. By the time Moonraker wraps up this summer, VW hopes the project will have provided the basis for as many as three more vehicles within the next decade and helped expand the company's range of products. VW will also have to consider how to keep the insight coming, perhaps, continuing to send people to the U.S. for a similar, scaled-back program.
Volkswagen thinks Moonraker is successful enough that it is expanding the idea to other markets. The car maker started a similar cultural immersion project in China dubbed "Swan Lake" and another as-yet-named team will begin in India in January.
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Originally posted by JGatz:
I love Top Gear, I wish they'd show more of it here in the States.
Like all good things British, it's being remade for the US audience.
The British version can still be seen on BBC World for those that get it. For those that don't, it's rumored to be coming to American cable soon.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
VW's American Road Trip
Venerable and I agree - an absolutely fascinating article.
I can't wait to go to Germany with my three American buddies this summer and drive around from World Cup match to World Cup match in our RV just to see their reactions!!
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Ford Motor Co. now creates an imaginary persona for the target customer of new models -- inventing, for example, an Asian-American teacher in her early 30s named Jenny for its just-launched Fusion. DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group even creates rooms to reflect the personalities of these imaginary customers. (See Chrysler's made-up customers get real living space at agency.)
it's nice to see that the real ad wizards come up with the same stereotypes and gross generalizations that i do