930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: duderino on October 12, 2005, 09:29:00 am
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i've read of some complications with this format; they won't play in car cd players or computers. has anyone had experience with this? i'm contemplating getting that talking heads box set, and maybe the new fiona apple in that format too.
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My Foo Fighters dual disc works in my car, but apparently you risk scratching the DVD side. So far so good with me, but I only dropped $14 on it...
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i'm getting my first dualdisc soon as well..
in a slot loading cd player you run the risk of scratching the dvd side.
the issue with the music cd side is it's not manufactured to the same specification as is stated in the Red Book Audio CD standard. From Wikipedia
"The CD-layer is much thinner, 0.9mm, than required by the Red Book, which stipulates 1.2mm. Philips and many other companies have warned them that including the Compact Disc Digital Audio logo on such non-conforming discs may constitute trademark infringement; either in anticipation or in response, the long-familiar logo is no longer to be seen on many recent CDs."
One of the methods of copy-protecting CD is manufacturing non-standard disc, which can lead to problems with drives etc.
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What is on the reverse side, recordings of the artist belching and farting and praising God?
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DualDisc Wikipedia info (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DualDisc)
Read the consumer complaints near the bottom...
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I can never get the cd side to play on my computer, or load into i-tunes, or load onto my Sony Hi-MD player.
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Originally posted by Xavier Bush, Power Forward:
What is on the reverse side, recordings of the artist belching and farting and praising God?
well in the case of any future Drive-By Truckers dualdisc it will be a boring, mind numbing, three hour concert in a spectacular 5.1 surround sound mix
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I haven't had any trouble playing Dual Discs, but I've yet to get any to successfully load into any computer (both slot-loading and tray-loading drives). Even when I get the music loaded to itunes, it sounds horrible and is full of errors. I'd love to get the Talking Heads box, too, but I'll wait for a CD version. If you have any interest in loading the music to an ipod, I wouldn't buy Dual Discs. Coincidence that they don't work too well on computers? Doubtful.
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This is not a Dual Disc issue, it's a DRM (Digital Rights Management) issue. A couple of labels, Sony/BMG especially, have started attaching new DRM to CDs which is designed to prevent burning or loading into iTunes. Here's an article that explains it:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/ptech/10/04/music.copy.reut/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/ptech/10/04/music.copy.reut/index.html)
There are ways around it, but it's a pain.
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or buy an Apple :D
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This is totally a Dual Disc issue. I have thousands of CDs and have never had any issues importing any CDs other than Dual Discs. I have no problem importing the songs per se. The problem is that the CD layer is thinner than on conventional CDs and the player has a harder time reading the data. It gets bogged down trying to fix what it reads as errors (It takes more than twice as long to rip a Dual Disc on my computer). It eventually imports the songs, but at least half, particularly songs at the beginning and end of the CD, sound horrible.
And I have an Apple!
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yuck, i'm definitely not getting anything in this format anytime soon then. hopefully that talking heads set will be released on sacd or something.
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Yeah, that's what I'm hoping too. A lot of people seem to like the Dual Discs, though, so I guess I'm in the minority. The only real issue I have is getting the music onto an ipod. I listen to so much music on my ipod now that it's not worth getting something that's incompatible.
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Originally posted by mbg73:
This is totally a Dual Disc issue. I have thousands of CDs and have never had any issues importing any CDs other than Dual Discs. I have no problem importing the songs per se.
But none of those thousands of CDs has the DRM on them. (unless you bought all of them this year, and if so, cool for you, are you a Lotto winner? ;) ) This is a new issue, just started happening this year. So your thousands of CDs are fine, it's the new ones, released recently, that present the DRM problem.
it's probably Dual Disc too, as you explained. The combo of Dual Disc/DRM is a real problem, but even with DRM alone, it is virtually impossible to play the music on any computer.
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The bottom line is that music industry has decided to treat everyone of it's customers as being a potential file sharer and thus felt to make it difficult to rip mp3s from the newest releases. Unless of course your willing to use Micro$ofts DRM software and it's approved portable media players. Or use a Mac :)
As I've said it other threads Sony/BMG bought into the latest copy protection without considering that the iPod/iTunes has the most signficate part of the marketplace. And then have the balls to blame Apple for not supporting their copy protection scheme.
And if you really want to screw over your Windoze based customer, don't let them rip directly from the audio track instead let them create files from an already compressed track also stored on those disks.
It pains me everytime I buy a CopyControlled disk, (The Coral, BRMC, The Dead 60's) because part of me wants to boycott such limitations, but as a fan I want to support the band and hear the music.
The DualDisc while a good idea to drive media sales and provide a better sounding product with the 5.1 mixes and full audio range on the DVD disk, obviously aren't the best of technologies.
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But my understanding is that the DRM software only affects PCs. I have a Mac, and those discs should play like a normal CD on a Mac b/c the DRM software isn't installed. You're right that the thousands of CDs I have aren't DRM CDs, but several recent ones have been and I haven't had any trouble with them. The problem, for me anyway, seems to be the ability of my drive to read all of the data on Dual Discs clearly.
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I'm guessing that any problems one has with a DualDisc in a Mac is because of the format of the disc and not the copy protection. Clearily the industry is taking any steps it can to prevent people from using newer technologies in their computers.
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Thank you! I was wondering how many times I had to say I use a Mac. The CD layer on a Dual Disc is much thinner than on a conventional disc (partly why they only hold 60 minutes of audio vs 72 on a conventional disc). The problems I've had importing from Dual Discs seem to stem from the inability of my drive to rip the data accurately. That's why it chokes and takes twice as long as a normal CD -- the drive is picking up and trying to fix more errors.
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Well I was dreading having to rip the new Coral CD for Kosmette's iPod based on the horror stories that abound the copy protection. And knowing that on my work Windoze box that the new "discs" want to install software in order just to listen to it. Was certain they had figured a way to hide the audio tracks on a MAC as well.
But was pleasently suprised to find that the MAC disregards the copy controls and the audio tracks are out in the open. Will let you know what my experience with ripping from the new Franz Ferdinand DualDisc is...
There is some debate that the new copy protected CDs can contained to be labelled as such, because they don't conform to the published standard.
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I know plenty of people who've had no problems ripping DualDiscs, so maybe you'll be fine. I had no luck with my powerbook or with any of the powermacs at my work, though. It rips and I can load it to ipod, but the first few songs and the last few songs sound shitty. I even tried ripping it, burning to disc, and then loading that into itunes. Still no luck. I much prefer the 2-disc option, like the last Neil Young album. You can get either the regular CD or a CD/DVD set with the 5.1 mix and video content on a separate disc. It seems to me that there are too many problems with Dual Discs right now.
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Here you go, this is what I've been trying to explain. Skip down to paragraph six.
Stereophile (http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/105awsi/)
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Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
But was pleasently suprised to find that the MAC disregards the copy controls and the audio tracks are out in the open. Will let you know what my experience with ripping from the new Franz Ferdinand DualDisc is...
I had no idea this was possible. As Bogie said in Casablanca, "I was misinformed." :D
Thanks to both of you for enlightening me about Macs. I use a Windows machine at work and a Mac at home, so from now on I'll do my music stuff at home instead of work.
The 9:30 Board: learning is fun!
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Originally posted by mbg73:
Here you go, this is what I've been trying to explain. Skip down to paragraph six.
Stereophile (http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/105awsi/)
Great Story! Ain't it great how with the DualDisc technology they have basically tossed out the window the error correction technology which was one of the major improvements over vinyl. And there is no need to get in a long winded discussion of why cd are "better" than vinyl, without them Apple would be toast :D
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Alright, everyone is happy now. I can't believe we've spent all day talking about Dual Discs.