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=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: redsock on July 28, 2004, 10:28:00 am
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It appears that Live on Penn has cancelled their remaining dates, citing crappy sales. Another blow to the local music scene. Not that the bands were anything special, but the fact that we can't support a concert series like this is really a sad thing. Are people really not going to see show anymore? It doesn't really matter to bands like Better than Ezra or Gavin degraw, but it hurts the Exit Clovs of the world, who really caught a break getting to play in front of so many folks.
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Where did you hear this?
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I'm sorry but I've had it out for Live on Penn from day one. It reeks of a city forcing a cultural event, and to be honest, it's not that far from the murky depths of the National BBQ battle.
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I bet it was the Old 97's that did it.
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Originally posted by alex:
Where did you hear this?
I am close with one of the bands, and they got an e-mail saying it was cancelled. I have no idea if this week's is the last one or if its done as well. I know the site is still up and promoting the shows... which says a lot about an organization's commitment to being upfront to the public.
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The schedule was just too chock full of jam bands and has-beens for my taste, at least in terms of the national-level bands. And the local bands pretty much weren't radar-level, at least for me.
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Originally posted by redsock:
Not that the bands were anything special, but the fact that we can't support a concert series like this is really a sad thing. Are people really not going to see show anymore?
I tend to believe that is the reason people probably aren't as interested in attending Live on Penn. Add in to the mix that the past few weekends have been rainy, who wants to stand outside in a sectioned off area listening to bands who've played Live on Penn the past two years?
I think people are being more selective with the shows they attend (I am, at least). Considering the majority of the acts headlining Live on Penn are not from the DC area, why and how does it hurt local bands? What's stopping them from going the Local 221 (http://www.local221.com/index.php) route and booking shows featuring local bands?
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Bummer. I never made it to one show. I always miss everything.
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I agree with Random Citizen.
Paying money to stand in a penned-off area listening to second rate bands does not appeal to me in the least.
How many people were showing up to these gigs anyway?
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Originally posted by Random Citizen:
Considering the majority of the acts headlining Live on Penn are not from the DC area, why and how does it hurt local bands? What's stopping them from going the Local 221 (http://www.local221.com/index.php) route and booking shows featuring local bands?
It's hurting local bands that were scheduled to play the cancelled dates. For a band like Exit Clov, or The Low Life, this would have been an opportunity to play in front of potentially thousands of local folks, who, if they liked the local bands, might go see them again at other local gigs. It's a huge missed opportunity to grab more fans. And I can't believe you compared Live on Penn to a Local 221 show. I'm not about to go into the merits, or shortcomings, of Local 221, but to compare their average draw (of what 50 people at most?), to Live on Penn is laughable.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
I agree with Random Citizen.
Paying money to stand in a penned-off area listening to second rate bands does not appeal to me in the least.
How many people were showing up to these gigs anyway?
On this point I agree as well, the same bands playing year after year gets old. Especially considering who the bands are. But people still like these bands for whatever reason. I doubt very few folks on the board are heading out to these shows, but the casual mix 107.3 listener might be. The weather has really sucked of late.
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it's a shame, but with such a crappy lineup, they had it coming.
i think live on penn didn't have a niche. at all. everything they tried to do, someone else was doing better.
other venues book better acts.
other venues are outdoors, but free.
the times were wrong (saturday afternoon, duh!), the acts were wrong, the whole thing was just unimaginative.
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Originally posted by redsock:
And I can't believe you compared Live on Penn to a Local 221 show. I'm not about to go into the merits, or shortcomings, of Local 221, but to compare their average draw (of what 50 people at most?), to Live on Penn is laughable.
And I can't believe you're assuming that the people who actively listen to radio stations like 103.7 would even be interested in checking out a local band.
First, that presumes they'll show up early in the day to actually see the local acts. Second, it assumes that they will venture into the club setting to see said local band again.
Also, considering the series was canceled due to poor ticket sales...how can you call 50 people attending a Local 221 show laughable. At least the show still happens.
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I thought old 97's and the They Might Be Giants/ Fountains of Wayne bills were well worth the price of admission.
So what if they booked the same bands both years. Does anyone object to seeing bands they actually like once a year?
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
So what if they booked the same bands both years. Does anyone object to seeing bands they actually like once a year?
I agree with Rhett. (gasp) Jimmy Buffett fans dont mind. and i could think of about 10 bands that i would LOVE to see every summer. None of them were playing Live on Penn though.
they should've gotten Andrew WK...he NEVER comes to the area ;)
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Originally posted by Random Citizen:
At least the show still happens.
if a band plays a show and no one goes, does the band still play?
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
if a band plays a show and no one goes, does the band still play?
Dunno...still trying to figure out if a tree falls in the woods, does it make a sound, over here. :p
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Originally posted by sonickteam2:
Originally posted by Random Citizen:
At least the show still happens.
if a band plays a show and no one goes, does the band still play? [/b]
Not here in Pittsburgh. Sign on door @ club for recent scheduled Icarus Line show:
Show cancelled. No one bought any tickets
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Who was Live on Penn's target audience? It seems like whoever put this on just threw an event together and hoped people would go to it. Sure, you can't beat five bucks. But who wants to pay that for something they don't even listen to?
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Where did Live on Penn do their promotions? Besides reading posts on this message board on the shows, I don't recall seeing anything else on it. No ads in the Metro stations like the Smithsonian does when they have a new exhibit. Was it plastered in the Post's Express or anything?
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Originally posted by Random Citizen:
Originally posted by redsock:
And I can't believe you compared Live on Penn to a Local 221 show. I'm not about to go into the merits, or shortcomings, of Local 221, but to compare their average draw (of what 50 people at most?), to Live on Penn is laughable.
And I can't believe you're assuming that the people who actively listen to radio stations like 103.7 would even be interested in checking out a local band.
First, that presumes they'll show up early in the day to actually see the local acts. Second, it assumes that they will venture into the club setting to see said local band again.
Also, considering the series was canceled due to poor ticket sales...how can you call 50 people attending a Local 221 show laughable. At least the show still happens. [/b]
The 107.3 crowd might not be interested, but they also might just happen to show up early, and be surprised by the locals. The thing is, even with poor ticket sales, you are talking about numbers in the 100s at least, which leaves room for getting some folks to be there to see and like the locals, just based on chance. They might or might not go see you again, but they also might buy a CD, or tell a friend about you.
The problem with local 221 is those 50 folks --and that was a high estimate -- is that they are the same 50 folks by in large. And they are all muscicans or connected to the music scene. The key to success for these local bands is notoriety, and gaining a fan base. Hard to do that when you are always playing for the same folks. At least at a Live on Penn type event, you are playing to folks who have never heard you before. Many will likely not care, you're right, but some will.
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Originally posted by Random Citizen:
Where did Live on Penn do their promotions? Besides reading posts on this message board on the shows, I don't recall seeing anything else on it. No ads in the Metro stations like the Smithsonian does when they have a new exhibit. Was it plastered in the Post's Express or anything?
Big adds in the City Paper.
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I saw an ad (banner) at the Metro Center metro station, and they advertised in the City Paper weekly.
Originally posted by Random Citizen:
Where did Live on Penn do their promotions? Besides reading posts on this message board on the shows, I don't recall seeing anything else on it. No ads in the Metro stations like the Smithsonian does when they have a new exhibit. Was it plastered in the Post's Express or anything?
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Originally posted by thirsty moore:
Who was Live on Penn's target audience?
People who graduated from college circa 1992 and were casual music fans in their early twenties. They are now thirty-somethings and wouldn't be interested in going to a commerce-free section of the city to sit in a fenced-off area listening to bands they've already seen half-a-dozen times.
Look at these "headliners"
Eve 6
Tonic
Sister Hazel
Cowboy Mouth
Pat McGee
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The Live on Penn site (http://www.liveonpenn.com) has stopped working.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
The Live on Penn site (http://www.liveonpenn.com) has stopped working.
Still works for me.
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Originally posted by thirsty moore:
Who was Live on Penn's target audience? It seems like whoever put this on just threw an event together and hoped people would go to it. Sure, you can't beat five bucks. But who wants to pay that for something they don't even listen to?
very true. whoever put this event together either had little money or hasnt listened to music much in the last 10 years. I have seen this happen with other kinds of music events. Music + beer doesnt ALWAYS equal ticket sales and money. you have to make people want to go. herding people in to a supposed "outdoor city concert" is pretty weak too.
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Originally posted by redsock:
Still works for me.
Hit the refresh button. The site now features the logo, nothing else.
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Whatever happened to "DC Sessions"? ..on H St. across from MCI Center 2 years ago (wow has it been that long?) They had national bands booked with local bands, and it was free. It seemed that they made their money from vendors and had advertising all over the place. (my guess would be that they didn't actually *make* money, or they would have done it again.) But yeah, and it's been said here a couple times before, but I think the logistics of the whole thing were wrong.. marketed to the wrong demographic, set at the wrong time of day, and putting bands on a bill that won't draw the intended crowds at the times/dates that they are booked. Unfortunately, when it all comes down to it, it's all about money for these folks who set stuff up like this. It seems to me like people start out with good intentions... "Hey.. let's have live music outdoors in the streets of Washington, and we'll couple major national acts with local acts, charge a *small* (arguable) admission, and we'll get lots of locals and tourists as well and it will be great!!!" ...but then those who are involved in the money end of it, only see the potential profits part of it, and since it doesn't net a huge profit, they cancel the whole thing. Seems like the financial people and the promotion people need to get on the same page.. is the mix 107 crowd a DC crowd? ..in reading this board, I would think not.. so if you're going to book mix 107 bands, how do you expect to draw from the burbs on a Saturday afternoon and have them pay to see the show? Aren't they all at the beach? :) I mean, it seems to me that alot (not all) of the posts around this topic talk about how the bands all sucked, so, shouldn't they have booked bands that all of the cool people who post here (to me, seems like are mostly DC residents) would have wanted to see?
Ok, don't flame me, I'm just pointing out what I perceive to be where they went wrong in putting the whole thing together, and taking others' positions about what bands/cost/demographics/logistics were wrong with the whole thing, a step further. Not trying to insult anyone's locale whether it be DC or the burbs, or their tastes in music. (besides, the last time someone flamed me (MANKIE) he never backed it up by saying it to my face, anyway, so no need to do it again ;) ) ...Mankie.. where've you been?
I don't have the answers, but it's just a shame that another attempt at live music that couples National acts with local DC acts fails. I wish I had the answers and could make something that would work.
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Originally posted by Random Citizen:
Originally posted by redsock:
Still works for me.
Hit the refresh button. The site now features the logo, nothing else. [/b]
ah-ha...thanks. and looks like i was wrong, its the 104.1 audience they're going for, not the 107.3 :p
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Well said. What may have been a more succesful approach is two concerts with a few good bands. Let that snowball into a popular summertime event and then go from there. Saturating the city with crappy music is no way to create "cultural events."
Eve 6 played at my college's annual concert to appease the students. I didn't bother attending the show.
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
People who graduated from college circa 1992 and were casual music fans in their early twenties. They are now thirty-somethings and wouldn't be interested in going to a commerce-free section of the city to sit in a fenced-off area listening to bands they've already seen half-a-dozen times.
Look at these "headliners"
Eve 6
Tonic
Sister Hazel
Cowboy Mouth
Pat McGee
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Originally posted by samsfresh5:
Whatever happened to "DC Sessions"? ..on H St. across from MCI Center 2 years ago (wow has it been that long?)
It has resurfaced as "McDonald's Sessions at Merriweather." Booking is by Mad Booking who do similar events in Atlanta and Nashville. Line-up isn't much more exciting than Live On Penn (Live, Twista, Fuel, etc.)
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I was at the Fountains of Wayne/TMBG show and it seemed pretty well-attended to me. But that might have been an anamoly.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Look at these "headliners"
Eve 6
Tonic
Sister Hazel
Cowboy Mouth
Pat McGee
i wouldnt pay $5 for ALL 5 of those bands together. unless there was free beer.
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Originally posted by Lamb007:
Originally posted by samsfresh5:
Whatever happened to "DC Sessions"? ..on H St. across from MCI Center 2 years ago (wow has it been that long?)
It has resurfaced as "McDonald's Sessions at Merriweather." Booking is by Mad Booking who do similar events in Atlanta and Nashville. Line-up isn't much more exciting than Live On Penn (Live, Twista, Fuel, etc.) [/b]
Yeah, but you have to pay for those, and they are at a venue instead of in the middle of a DC street. (I mean, you answered my question, and I remember that Mad Booking did DC Sessions, but it's sad to think that that's what it turned into :( )
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i went to one of the live on penn shows.
it was nothing special. 3 dollars for a bottle of water. the same for a slice of cold pizza.
it was like an older, smaller hfstival.
i wasn't impressed at all and i don't plan on going next year (if it happens next year.)
it does surprise me that it was cancelled. it's a bit silly for promoters to expect people to be buying tickets before the show, when it's much easier to do so on the day of the event.
when i went to live on penn, i didn't see it as dc trying to bring in some sort of "cultural event." unless dc culture involves a whole lot of beer (two ridiculous blow up bottles of beer right next to the stage), really UGLY cars (scion. aldgasdf.), and jams from 1982 (via the radio station being played between bands.)
on second thought...maybe it was a very cultured event.
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Something's gotta loosen those policy wonks up. When you describe it this way, it makes it sound like a sad attempt at drawing a crowd to Penn Quarter.
Originally posted by granita:
when i went to live on penn, i didn't see it as dc trying to bring in some sort of "cultural event." unless dc culture involves a whole lot of beer (two ridiculous blow up bottles of beer right next to the stage), really UGLY cars (scion. aldgasdf.), and jams from 1982 (via the radio station being played between bands.)
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Originally posted by redsock:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
The Live on Penn site (http://www.liveonpenn.com) has stopped working.
Still works for me. [/b]
Works for me but the ticket buy doesn't work (just testing...)
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It worked for me earlier this morning, but since 10:30 or so it has just been showing the homepage icon, and no entry to the site.
Originally posted by Sugartastic Tee Silk:
Originally posted by redsock:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
The Live on Penn site (http://www.liveonpenn.com) has stopped working.
Still works for me. [/b]
Works for me but the ticket buy doesn't work (just testing...) [/b]
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Problem with Live on Penn was that at the end of the day you were on a street. Having the Capitol as a backdrop was obviously their goal but why not do it on the mall. People like setting up blankets and chillin on grass fields. I think more people would've come if it was a nicer place to hang around at.
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Yeh, and playing Frisbee to Eve 6.
Originally posted by Stuart Ransom Miller:
People like setting up blankets and chillin on grass fields.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Paying money to stand in a penned-off area listening to second rate bands does not appeal to me in the least.
$5? That's half a movie....I don't get cost as a factor at all. Not that I'd go if I don't like the bands, so I was at Fountains of Wayne/They Might Be Giants last weekend, and would have been at Old 97s if I'd been in town.
That's one issue -- summer in DC is lots of weekends away. And as someone mentioned, the same bands seem to come back each year.
But, flip side, I have a really awesome time every time I've been. And the crowd last week seemed good -- we were packed in pretty tightly all the way back to just in front of the soundboard tent. Oop, one thing -- there was *never* a line for beer (though there was for Papa John's pizza) -- I wonder if they just weren't selling enough shit? Miller was a sponsor, after all...
It's a major, major bummer.
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Originally posted by chimbly sweep:
other venues are outdoors, but free.
For national acts? Where/when?
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i had no idea this band was popular
<img src="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00004W3YE.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Originally posted by chimbly sweep:
it's a shame, but with such a crappy lineup, they had it coming.
I guess fans of Penn. Ave. concerts could use this quote for why Lollapolloza was cancelled.
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Originally posted by samsfresh5:
Whatever happened to "DC Sessions"? ..on H St. across from MCI Center 2 years ago (wow has it been that long?) They had national bands booked with local bands, and it was free. It seemed that they made their money from vendors and had advertising all over the place. (my guess would be that they didn't actually *make* money, or they would have done it again.) But yeah, and it's been said here a couple times before, but I think the logistics of the whole thing were wrong.. marketed to the wrong demographic, set at the wrong time of day, and putting bands on a bill that won't draw the intended crowds at the times/dates that they are booked. Unfortunately, when it all comes down to it, it's all about money for these folks who set stuff up like this. It seems to me like people start out with good intentions... "Hey.. let's have live music outdoors in the streets of Washington, and we'll couple major national acts with local acts, charge a *small* (arguable) admission, and we'll get lots of locals and tourists as well and it will be great!!!" ...but then those who are involved in the money end of it, only see the potential profits part of it, and since it doesn't net a huge profit, they cancel the whole thing. Seems like the financial people and the promotion people need to get on the same page.. is the mix 107 crowd a DC crowd? ..in reading this board, I would think not.. so if you're going to book mix 107 bands, how do you expect to draw from the burbs on a Saturday afternoon and have them pay to see the show? Aren't they all at the beach? :) I mean, it seems to me that alot (not all) of the posts around this topic talk about how the bands all sucked, so, shouldn't they have booked bands that all of the cool people who post here (to me, seems like are mostly DC residents) would have wanted to see?
Ok, don't flame me, I'm just pointing out what I perceive to be where they went wrong in putting the whole thing together, and taking others' positions about what bands/cost/demographics/logistics were wrong with the whole thing, a step further. Not trying to insult anyone's locale whether it be DC or the burbs, or their tastes in music. (besides, the last time someone flamed me (MANKIE) he never backed it up by saying it to my face, anyway, so no need to do it again ;) ) ...Mankie.. where've you been?
I don't have the answers, but it's just a shame that another attempt at live music that couples National acts with local DC acts fails. I wish I had the answers and could make something that would work.
DC Sessions changed its name to Sessions At Merriweather (http://www.sessionsatmerriweather.com). With openers like Fuel, Big Boi of Outkast, Twista, Live and Cake, I don't mind making the journey to Columbia, MD.
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I thought old 97's and the They Might Be Giants/ Fountains of Wayne bills were well worth the price of admission.
I think I see the problem with ticket sales. Even the fans don't pony up.
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I wouldn't have minded paying the 5 bucks to get in, but the sight lines were actually much better outside of the pay area.
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Exactly. Why would I pay 5 bucks to be fenced in a pen with a gaggle of Eve 6 fans, when I can safely avoid the retards and not pay a dime?
Originally posted by Sailor Ripley:
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I thought old 97's and the They Might Be Giants/ Fountains of Wayne bills were well worth the price of admission.
I think I see the problem with ticket sales. Even the fans don't pony up.
Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
I wouldn't have minded paying the 5 bucks to get in, but the sight lines were actually much better outside of the pay area.
[/b]
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
Exactly. Why would I pay 5 bucks to be fenced in a pen with a gaggle of Eve 6 fans, when I can safely avoid the retards and not pay a dime?
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So that the band you like get paid?
So the promoters can afford to entertain you exactly the same way next year?
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Don't you know? Old 97's all have real jobs. They just do this band thing for kicks.
Originally posted by mark e smith:
So that the band you like get paid?
So the promoters can afford to entertain you exactly the same way next year?
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Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
when I can safely avoid the retards and not pay a dime?
[/qb][/QUOTE] [/QB][/QUOTE]
So you were the only Old 97's fan outside the fence?
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I went to one show of the Live On Penn Series: Galatic and Nappy Roots on July 17th. It rained until Nappy Roots can on. I did have an Umbrella.
The problem with the Live On Penn this year was the line-up, the ticket prices and the location. So, it's more than one problem that caused it to hurt.
The only free concert series left is the Fort Reno Concert Series. Unfortunately, they only do Mondays and Thursdays.
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i had fun at guided by voices last year. i like gbv, and i'm sure if someone else i liked that wasn't expensive came i would have fun no matter how much it cost or rained. but no one i liked came. would have caught old 97's if i was around though.
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GBV were not very impresive that night.
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Originally posted by Rob_Gee_a.k.a _Guiny:
GBV were not very impresive that night.
I had a blast, whether they were good or not. Live on Penn is a good time if you're going to see bands you like. Not always the best "venue," per se, but a different kind of vibe. It's kinda nice to see a band somewhere besides 9:30 or Black Cat...
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live on penn was my least favorite GBV show
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From liveonpenn.com:
It is with much regret that we have to inform you that the remainder of the Live on Penn concert series has been cancelled effective immediately.
We had hoped to once again bring the people of D.C. first-rate entertainment at reasonable prices all summer long. Unfortunately, the series is no longer viable.
We want to thank our sponsors, partners, volunteers and the live music fans of Washington who truly supported this series.
For those who purchased advanced tickets, information on refunds will be forthcoming in the near future.
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Official announcement's up on the website:
It is with much regret that we have to inform you that the remainder of the Live on Penn concert series has been cancelled effective immediately.
We had hoped to once again bring the people of D.C. first-rate entertainment at reasonable prices all summer long. Unfortunately, the series is no longer viable.
We want to thank our sponsors, partners, volunteers and the live music fans of Washington who truly supported this series.
For those who purchased advanced tickets, information on refunds will be forthcoming in the near future.
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W. Post's take:
Dead on Penn
By Fritz Hahn
washingtonpost.com Staff Writer
Thursday, July 29, 2004;
Citing "a sluggish start," promoters of Live on Penn have pulled the plug on the outdoor concert series after just three of its ten scheduled shows.
"We thank everyone for their support, but as shown by festivals like Lollapalooza, the concert industry is off to a sluggish start this summer ... and we're no longer able to continue," Director of Marketing Howard Kitrosser said. "We look forward to doing more events in the city of Washington."
Held Saturday afternoons on a closed stretch of Pennsylvania Avenue outside the National Gallery of Art, Live on Penn debuted last summer and was an immediate success, luring large crowds for $3 shows featuring Blues Traveler, Wyclef Jean and Live, along with a mix of local and regional artists.
This year, though, admission shot to $7 at the gate, although advance tickets were available for $5 through the series' Web site. The schedule was also problematic. Highlights included Grammy-nominated rock band Fountains of Wayne, alt-country heroes Old 97s (on the verge of releasing their first album since 2001), and perennial local favorites Virginia Coalition -- all of whom have headlined the 9:30 club in recent months at a much higher price.
But most lineups were based around a mix of '80s nostalgia acts, including the Violent Femmes and the Smithereens, and veteran alternative-rock bands like Tonic and Better Than Ezra. The latter may have been big draws a few years ago, but they have fallen off the pop-culture radar and didn't lure fans willing to stand on the pavement and drink $5 cups of Miller beer.
While the cancellation is disappointing, Live on Penn's promoters are in good company this summer. The multi-band Lollapalooza festival was scratched after substandard ticket sales, and some tours, including Dave Matthews and Ozzfest, have been playing to less-than-full houses.
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Do you guys get credit to the info here? ;)
Who ran the event - what company?
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Horrible promotion. I didn't even know about the 97's show until afterwards, and was really annoyed to have missed it. And I was out of town for Fountains of Wayne.
That being said, I wouldn't see the other acts for free (except maybe the 80's stuff).
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I would say that the promotion of Live on Penn this year was a bit sluggish at best. I didn't see anything about the shows outside of their website. I never saw anything in the newspaper about it. And I probably wouldn't have known about this year's line-up if it wasn't for having the website bookmarked after going to a show or two last year. I started checking the website for updates in June. Comparing the line-up this year and last year, I feel last year's line-up was better.
I think the other thing that was killing it, was that a lot of the shows they had scheduled for this summer, are/were happening days before or after at Power Plant Live in Baltimore. Here the show is free and held in an open courtyard outside of Bar Baltimore, The Improv, and Have a Nice Day Cafe. Why pay for the show, parking/metro to go to DC, if you can see same show in Baltimore for free, and not have all of the pain in the ass vendors? However it is interesting because Tonic was to play PPL on Thursday and then LOP Saturday. They ended up cancelling both.
You can check the schedule at PowerPlantLive.com.
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While the cancellation is disappointing, Live on Penn's promoters are in good company this summer. The multi-band Lollapalooza festival was scratched after substandard ticket sales, and some tours, including Dave Matthews and Ozzfest, have been playing to less-than-full houses. [/QB][/QUOTE]
I've never known a Dave Matthews show that didn't sell out. Both shows at Nissan and Merriweather were sold out, as well as both shows in Philly. So I don't know where this guy is getting his info.
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From local musicianMike Holden (http://www.mikeholdenmusic.com), this comment from The Arlington (VA) Music Scene Website (http://arlingtonmusicscene.com/):
As I understand it, Live On Penn isn't actually run by Z104. It's run by a promoter, who brought in Z104 as a sponsor. They've had a different radio sponsor each year. Last year, WHFS was the sponsor.
I don't think this is such a black and white issue. The Post article, that Rob from The Speaks linked to, provides some other information on why they bagged it early this year. I was actually a little surprised to hear that Live On Penn was happening again this year, because I'd heard the promoter lost a good chunck of money on it last year. I guess they
decided to cut their losses early this year. Either way, I'm glad they made a go at this.
One thing to keep in mind with D.C. is that there are lots of options on weekends. Not every city has beaches so close or so many things to do on weekends, so there's a lot of competition. I read a recent Washington Post Weekend section
survey that showed what people do on weekends around here. Many people leave town. Music was a small blip on the radar screen in the survey and the truth is, with a festival like Live On Penn, the sunshine and alcohol are probably just
as important to people as the music so, unless the line-up really blows them away, there's a good chance they'll choose another outdoor activity or drink somewhere else.
I admire Live On Penn for doing what they did and I hope they try again, but I have to be honest and say that many of the line-ups, from a national perspective, didn't blow me away.
I've seen most of those bands and there are a few who most people have seen time and time again or who people preferred seeing back when they were a younger band. And many of the acts are doing the same thing now they were doing 10
years ago. They may have new material, but in many cases it's not much different. There are exceptions to the rule, but many bands still have the same sound. For me, the bands I've followed for long periods of time, and been willing to go see any time they come through town, are the ones who reinvent themselves or who sound a little different record to record. Compare bands like Radiohead, R.E.M., Pearl Jam
and U2 with bands like Live, Better Than Ezra, Cowboy Mouth, or Sister Hazel. Time has shown that there's a chance that the albums the first group puts out could sound much different than their last and that their live show will incoporate old stuff with new stuff. That second group includes some bands who are very entertaining at times but, as a friend of mine recently said about one band, "they basically just change the cover art on their albums." At this point in their careers, I find that
second bunch of bands boring, for the most part. Obviously, Live On Penn isn't going to book Pearl Jam or bands from that first batch, but there's got to be some middle ground between
the batch they're pulling from nationally and the innovative, exciting bands I'll see over and over. I was honestly more excited for most of the local/regional acts and the bands in slots below the headliner, in most cases. I felt like I'd see something new there or something I had not seen as often. In short, most of the Live On Penn headliners were bands that made me say, "I've seen that before...I'm not sure I'll go, except to support the locals or regionals I want to see." I imagine I wasn't the only one doing that.
There are many, many factors as to why the festival didn't work and it can't just be blamed on just the radio station who sponsored it or what type of music is currently hot in the local scene. One thing that jumps out at me is how big the festival started out. It was never something small that grew. They went for broke...and they found it. A festival like that might do better with a smaller number of acts, a smaller stage,
and a smaller section of streets closed off, to keep security and other costs as low as possible. It could grow from there.
OK...I'm going to continue this in part 2 because it's going to get away from the Live On Penn theme a bit.
These are just ideas I'm throwing out here too....thinking out loud. I find that helps get to an eventual understanding, if one can be reached. During the process though, I may not
always have the right ideas. Please fire back at me if you want.
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Compare bands like Radiohead, R.E.M., Pearl Jam and U2 with bands like Live, Better Than Ezra, Cowboy Mouth, or Sister Hazel. Time has shown that there's a chance that the albums the first group puts out could sound much different than their last and that their live show will incoporate old stuff with new stuff. That second group includes some bands who are very entertaining at times but, as a friend of mine recently said about one band, "they basically just change the cover art on their albums." At this point in their careers, I find that second bunch of bands boring, for the most part.
Obviously opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. But let mine differ a little bit. I can agree with the point about the first batch of bands. In most cases they reinvent themselves, and something great comes out of it. I don't feel this is the case with Radiohead and Pearl Jam though. In my opinion, what they've put out recently stinks. Again just my opinion.
I can also agree about Cowboy Mouth and Sister Hazel. Both bands never really appealed to me at all, however CM intrigued me because there was something there. SH always sucked to me.
However, I will disagree about Live and BTE, Live especially. Everyone of their albums is distinctly different, and of course I feel some albums are better than others. But from their first album to their latest, things have changed on each release, however I feel that the latest album is trying to hard to get what they had originally. BTE hasn't differed as much, but "How Does Your Garden Grow" was a complete departure from what they did in the past, and I thought was rather good from an experimental point. And that album just went under the radar. However, their latest album "Butterfly" I believe it is, stinks. I just think it is a poppy piece of crap.
At other times, bands try and make a departure or reinvent themselves on future albums, and end up getting fired upon for it. People will say they aren't thinking about the fans, or that they are keeping true to their original sound. So what is a person to do? You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. However, there is an audience out there for bands that stay the same, whether you think they are producing shit, or not. Their sound stays the same, for example Jimmy Buffett, Rush, Phish, many many current country acts. And they are all considered big successes beyond the commercial aspect.
Now I know that all of this is my own opinion, and I'm probably going to get fucking basted for this (since I am a fan of both Live and BTE) but oh well. People will disagree with my music tastes, as much as I disagree with theirs. That is what makes the music world go 'round, and why Britney Spears makes tons of money, and people with more talent than her in their fucking pinky make next to nothing.
Albeit, all of this now seems to have branched into another subject, maybe suitable for another forum, but I don't know.