930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: calecp01 on May 15, 2007, 03:38:00 pm
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Rev. Jerry Falwell dies at age 73
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/15/jerry.falwell/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/15/jerry.falwell/index.html)
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Do Evangellical preachers die in trifectas too?
Come on Pat and James!
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The title of this thread has made my day. And good things do come in threes, so I'll remain hopefully optimistic.
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Can we include Al Sharpton in the trifecta?
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I guess Fundamentally Oral Bill got the funding to send him home.
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from productshopnyc.com
JERRY FALWELL | Finally Fucking Dead
Rev. Jerry Falwell is dead at the age of 73. May he burn in hell. Disagree with my harsh words? Well then, read some of his quotes..........
"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's chariotters."
-Rev Jerry Falwell
"The Jews are returning to their land of unbelief. They are spiritually blind and desperately in need of their Messiah and Savior."
-Jerry Falwell, Listen, America!
"And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, "You helped this happen."
-Rev Jerry Falwell, blaming civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, quoted from John F Harris, "God Gave US 'What We Deserve,' Falwell Says," The Washington Post (September 14, 2001)
"I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!"
-Rev Jerry Falwell, America Can Be Saved, 1979 pp. 52-53, from Albert J Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom
"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals."
-Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)
"The ACLU is to Christians what the American Nazi party is to Jews."
-Rev Jerry Falwell
"The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country."
-Rev Jerry Falwell, Sermon, July 4, 1976
"There is no separation of church and state. Modern US Supreme Courts have raped the Constitution and raped the Christian faith and raped the churches by misinterpreting what the Founders had in mind in the First Amendment to the Constitution."
-Jerry Falwell
"The Bible is the inerrant ... word of the living God. It is absolutely infallible,without error in all matters pertaining to faith and practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history, etc."
-Jerry Falwell, Finding Inner Peace and Strength
"I listen to feminists and all these radical gals - most of them are failures. They've blown it. Some of them have been married, but they married some Casper Milquetoast who asked permission to go to the bathroom. These women just need a man in the house. That's all they need. Most of the feminists need a man to tell them what time of day it is and to lead them home. And they blew it and they're mad at all men. Feminists hate men. They're sexist. They hate men - that's their problem."
-Jerry Falwell
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Me and my Tinky Winky Doll are going to sleep well tonight.
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Originally posted by vansmack:
Me and my Tinky Winky Doll are going to sleep well tonight.
Is it safe to wear purple again?
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Later,Bitch!
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Great balls of fire!
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Did he ever kill anyone? No? All he really wanted to do was to save that black foetus from being aborted. Yet you treat him like he was Cho-seung Hui.
Have some respect for the dead. What a bunch of fucking hypocrites you lot are!
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Originally posted by Psychoda alternata:
Did he ever kill anyone? No? All he really wanted to do was to save that black foetus from being aborted. Yet you treat him like he was Cho-seung Hui.
Have some respect for the dead. What a bunch of fucking hypocrites you lot are!
Did Hitler ever kill anyone?
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Originally posted by beetsnotbeats:
Did Hitler ever kill anyone?
Only by proxy. EDIT: Unless we count his suicide.
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Larry Flint should have some sort of update tying in Falwell's death done to that cartoon he got in trouble for in the early 80's.
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Originally posted by beetsnotbeats:
Originally posted by Psychoda alternata:
Did he ever kill anyone? No? All he really wanted to do was to save that black foetus from being aborted. Yet you treat him like he was Cho-seung Hui.
Have some respect for the dead. What a bunch of fucking hypocrites you lot are!
Did Hitler ever kill anyone? [/b]
Didn't Adolf kill as a soldier in WWI?
Was Falwell a dictator? Or did you just disagree with his views. Did he kill millions?
Or doesn't his right to freedom of expression jibe with your own tailor made politically correct nativity scene? Why don't you move to a country where everyone always agrees on the same things...North Korea comes to mind.
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i agree with the above post
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Originally posted by Psychoda alternata:
Did he ever kill anyone? No? All he really wanted to do was to save that black foetus from being aborted. Yet you treat him like he was Cho-seung Hui.
Have some respect for the dead. What a bunch of fucking hypocrites you lot are!
oh oh oh, right-wing fanboy gets sensitive when one of his idols is disrespected. i'm sure you'll be entirely respectful when al sharpton or jesse jackson dies (not that i'd defend them, just sayin'). "have some respect for the dead" just doesn't ring sincere.
wait, isn't this what you do to everyone else - push their buttons for a reaction? got ya!!! payback's a bitch, innit dupek? yet i'm not convinced you've learned anything here. door is open for your witty reply...
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even though that last post wasnt directed at me ..i could care less about ol' jerry. but its quite sickening to see the lefties celebrate in someones death so much..almost gitty. i sure hope the osama celebration is as gleeful, whenever that is!!
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you think the right doesn't celebrate the demise of equally polarizing lefties? somehow their religious fervour puts them above that?
i'm not happy about falwell's death. slightly curious, reminiscent, but generally indifferent. from a personal standpoint, i'm very much aware that there are people hurting because of the loss and i take no joy in that. politically, he hasn't been relevant since his 9/11 comments. i had pretty much forgotten about him until today. my previous post was directed at an individual, not a group. chill.
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Falwell was America's Mullah Omar. Like the real Mullah Omar, his death is worth rejoicing over.
I hereby proclaim May 15 to be once and forever National Falwell's Death Day!
<img src="http://www.baskinrobbins.com/images/cakes/cakephotos/SO-24.jpg" alt=" - " />
It's also worth noting that some of the other faces of religious fascism are still at large:
<img src="http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/Falwell_Robertson.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://www.defendamerica.mil/images/photos/ii112601e.jpg" alt=" - " />
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you go doctor doom!!!!
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Your hypothetical statement is a poor excuse for poor behavior. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Originally posted by sweetcell:
you think the right doesn't celebrate the demise of equally polarizing lefties? somehow their religious fervour puts them above that?
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panderers are us (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2007/05/15/VI2007051501305.html)
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agreed, two wrongs don't make a right. but you're picking the incorrect wrong.
if you re-read my posts, at NO point to i take joy in falwell's passing. i don't even mention it. please let me know if you read anything i've written otherwise.
i do, however, point out that dupek got his buttons pushed. that's my wrong, to his many past similar wrongs. thus your "two wrongs don't make a right" is a good retort in as much as poking at dupey is my poor behavior, nothing to do with celebrating deaths.
second person to accuse me of reveling in someone's death... weird. that being said, i've bookmarked this thread. 100% guaranteed that right-wingers will be even less generous when a polarizing lefty kicks it. rhett, wanna go double-or-nothing on this one? :)
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Originally posted by yinzer:
panderers are us (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2007/05/15/VI2007051501305.html)
This is sickening.
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I was not accusing you of revealing in Falwell's death, I was accusing you of making excuses for those who were.
And I have no doubt that your statement about righties revealing in the death of a polarizing left figure is 100% true. That behavior would be/will be equally repugnant.
Originally posted by sweetcell:
agreed, two wrongs don't make a right. but you're picking the incorrect wrong.
if you re-read my posts, at NO point to i take joy in falwell's passing. i don't even mention it. please let me know if you read anything i've written otherwise.
i do, however, point out that dupek got his buttons pushed. that's my wrong, to his many past similar wrongs. thus your "two wrongs don't make a right" is a good retort in as much as poking at dupey is my poor behavior, nothing to do with celebrating deaths.
second person to accuse me of reveling in someone's death... weird. that being said, i've bookmarked this thread. 100% guaranteed that right-wingers will be even less generous when a polarizing lefty kicks it. rhett, wanna go double-or-nothing on this one? :)
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As someone who spent my childhood years among born again Christian types, I find it interesting that Falwell is an example of how the Christian right seems to ignore one particular sin; that being the sin of gluttony. Want to see a large collection of fat people? Just go to the First Baptist Church for Sunday services.
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falwell's head, if you could discern it from his neck, must've weighed 30 lbs. barry bonds might've given him some HGH.
by the way, there's nothing wrong with being glad that someone one thinks sucks is dead.
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Still, it's a bit tacky to mock someone the day they die, don't you think? Not that I'm a fan.
But what if I thought the Clash sucked, and I came on here mocking Joe Strummer the day he died. Would there be nothing wrong with that?
Originally posted by yinzer:
by the way, there's nothing wrong with being glad that someone one thinks sucks is dead.
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Still, it's a bit tacky to mock someone the day they die, don't you think?
quote:
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Originally posted by yinzer:
by the way, there's nothing wrong with being glad that someone one thinks sucks is dead.
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could be. it's probably not the best etiquette.
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Originally posted by Psychoda alternata:
Did he ever kill anyone? No? All he really wanted to do was to save that black foetus from being aborted. Yet you treat him like he was Cho-seung Hui.
Have some respect for the dead. What a bunch of fucking hypocrites you lot are!
I agree, have some respect for the dead! You really can't fault Falwell, he's not really responsible for the stupid phucking ignorant dumbasses that listen to him, donate to his causes, and give him a platform to spew his non-sensical absurdities. And he's far from the only or worst (ok maybe he's up there with the worst) but without a flock of braindead, self-loathing, weak-willed bottom feeders to lap up his vomit he'd be inconsequential and unworthy of having a thread discuss his demise. If you feel he was a scourge on the earth, then you need to focus on those who empowered him, his congregation, but since there are certainly more spineless followers than there are leaders, good luck with that! This applies to all evangelists of whatever race or religious sect. Religion (and those using it's fictious stories as rationale for their behavior) is the greatest promoter of death the earth has ever known, so farewell to Falwell. Besides shouldn't we be celebrating that he is now in heaven? Certainly being up there with God is better than down here with all the sinners right? Fuck Falwell and all the rest, good riddance. OK the firing range is now open for business.
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I'm with Rhett and, in a smaller sense, Dupek here. Everyone had a good laugh when Layne Staley died, but it was the end of the world when a joke was made at Arther Lee's expense. Look, I'm sure 95% of us think Falwell was a total douche bag, and that his views are so ass backwards that, if there is a all-loving God, he's probably doing some pretty heavy burning right now (also, we'd be right :D ). But reveling in someone's death is totally tacky.
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
But what if I thought the Clash sucked, and I came on here mocking Joe Strummer the day he died. Would there be nothing wrong with that?
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When is it appropriate to cheer someone's death? Hitler? Pol Pot? Saddam?
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Why don't you post this on a conservative Christian chatboard? If you're looking to stir up trouble (which seems to be the case based on the passion of your words), you're probably on the wrong board.
Originally posted by bnyced0:
Originally posted by Psychoda alternata:
Did he ever kill anyone? No? All he really wanted to do was to save that black foetus from being aborted. Yet you treat him like he was Cho-seung Hui.
Have some respect for the dead. What a bunch of fucking hypocrites you lot are!
I agree, have some respect for the dead! You really can't fault Falwell, he's not really responsible for the stupid phucking ignorant dumbasses that listen to him, donate to his causes, and give him a platform to spew his non-sensical absurdities. And he's far from the only or worst (ok maybe he's up there with the worst) but without a flock of braindead, self-loathing, weak-willed bottom feeders to lap up his vomit he'd be inconsequential and unworthy of having a thread discuss his demise. If you feel he was a scourge on the earth, then you need to focus on those who empowered him, his congregation, but since there are certainly more spineless followers than there are leaders, good luck with that! This applies to all evangelists of whatever race or religious sect. Religion (and those using it's fictious stories as rationale for their behavior) is the greatest promoter of death the earth has ever known, so farewell to Falwell. Besides shouldn't we be celebrating that he is now in heaven? Certainly being up there with God is better than down here with all the sinners right? Fuck Falwell and all the rest, good riddance. OK the firing range is now open for business. [/b]
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I'm not really sure. The good natured part of me says never. But then again, having Bin Laden's head on a pike would probably get a bit of a smile out of me.
At the end of the day, what evil, beyond completely bigoted speech, did Falwell commit? He certainly didn't kill anyone, or groups of anyone. If anything, he pissed people that don't share his views. That doesn't mean he doesn't have a right to say or think them. I'm sure to a certain point, the guy was probably thinking he was a force of good, even if he didn't mind lining his pockets as well.
In my opinion, the guy wasn't worth the attention he's getting, in life or in death. He was a pretty hateful man. But that still doesn't mean I take joy in his suffering or his death. Nothing "higher road" about that.
Originally posted by Sir HC:
When is it appropriate to cheer someone's death? Hitler? Pol Pot? Saddam?
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True he did not kill anyone, but the hateful words and ideas that he spewed out certainly may have well inspired others to do so. The world is better off without him.
I'm not reveling, but I am certainly not shedding any tears over this.
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Why don't you post this on a conservative Christian chatboard? If you're looking to stir up trouble (which seems to be the case based on the passion of your words), you're probably on the wrong board.
Originally posted by bnyced0:
Originally posted by Psychoda alternata:
Did he ever kill anyone? No? All he really wanted to do was to save that black foetus from being aborted. Yet you treat him like he was Cho-seung Hui.
Have some respect for the dead. What a bunch of fucking hypocrites you lot are!
I agree, have some respect for the dead! You really can't fault Falwell, he's not really responsible for the stupid phucking ignorant dumbasses that listen to him, donate to his causes, and give him a platform to spew his non-sensical absurdities. And he's far from the only or worst (ok maybe he's up there with the worst) but without a flock of braindead, self-loathing, weak-willed bottom feeders to lap up his vomit he'd be inconsequential and unworthy of having a thread discuss his demise. If you feel he was a scourge on the earth, then you need to focus on those who empowered him, his congregation, but since there are certainly more spineless followers than there are leaders, good luck with that! This applies to all evangelists of whatever race or religious sect. Religion (and those using it's fictious stories as rationale for their behavior) is the greatest promoter of death the earth has ever known, so farewell to Falwell. Besides shouldn't we be celebrating that he is now in heaven? Certainly being up there with God is better than down here with all the sinners right? Fuck Falwell and all the rest, good riddance. OK the firing range is now open for business. [/b]
[/b]
No trouble stirring here, I'm agnostic and (acknowledging the hypocrisy of my upcoming statement) find even giving this clown the credibility of denouncing him silly. There are freaks that abuse those who have been convinced religion has relevance, and while the freaks are despicable it's the abused that have fallen into the trap. We have a responsibility to provide the education, and resources so that these people can relish in what's real here on earth and provide a morale compass so that their lives are worth enough that they won't pine for a fictious after life. I know that there are A LOT of people who believe there is a god, there may even be some that arrived at the conclusion without the coercion of their parents ( sort of like the cycle of poverty I think once religious zealotry takes hold of a family it's probably difficult to kick), or other external pressure, and they are within their right to do so. But that right should be confined to them, personally, and only them as soon as they attempt to recruit someone else, or impose their beliefs on anyone else (their family included) they've crossed a line. And it's a line that virtually no religion respects and ultimately leads (and has lead to) to a lot of death and destruction. There's no need for me to post on a religious board, I'm not trying to stir up trouble and would prefer to write to people that may have thread of sanity and rationale left so they might absorb what I have to say.
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Go ahead, deflect your measly arguments upon me. Good tactic.
Originally posted by sweetcell:
agreed, two wrongs don't make a right. but you're picking the incorrect wrong.
if you re-read my posts, at NO point to i take joy in falwell's passing. i don't even mention it. please let me know if you read anything i've written otherwise.
i do, however, point out that dupek got his buttons pushed. that's my wrong, to his many past similar wrongs. thus your "two wrongs don't make a right" is a good retort in as much as poking at dupey is my poor behavior, nothing to do with celebrating deaths.
second person to accuse me of reveling in someone's death... weird. that being said, i've bookmarked this thread. 100% guaranteed that right-wingers will be even less generous when a polarizing lefty kicks it. rhett, wanna go double-or-nothing on this one? :)
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Originally posted by nkotb:
I'm with Rhett and, in a smaller sense, Dupek here.
But I'm bigger than Rhett.
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My take exactly.
Originally posted by jd930:
I'm not reveling, but I am certainly not shedding any tears over this.
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Originally posted by Sir HC:
When is it appropriate to cheer someone's death? Hitler? Pol Pot? Saddam?
If you are Catholic, never.
But I digress. I merely meant to point out the inherent hypocricy in gloating over one death, when others who do the same to your personal beloved heroes are mocked for the same.
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Sorry, but the world is a better place with Falwell gone. The only regrettable thing is he didn't croak 30 years ago, and that his ignorant, beady-eyed, small-minded followers can't just die off en masse.
Dupek, as usual you see hypocrisy everywhere but in yourself. Nobody is questioning Falwell's right to free speech; and another part of free speech is being glad someone is dead. It's not like anyone killed him.
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I'm not going to get into a debate over the existence of a God, but you seem quite disrespectful to the vast majority of people in the world who choose to believe in his/her existence.
Of course science can't prove the existence of God, that's why they call it FAITH.
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Well then, if your happy...
I thought Cho-seung Hui did a good job too. He won the blue ribbon. Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
Sorry, but the world is a better place with Falwell gone. The only regrettable thing is he didn't croak 30 years ago, and that his ignorant, beady-eyed, small-minded followers can't just die off en masse.
Dupek, as usual you see hypocrisy everywhere but in yourself. Nobody is questioning Falwell's right to free speech; and another part of free speech is being glad someone is dead. It's not like anyone killed him.
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One could easily make the same statements regarding Al Sharpton.
Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
Sorry, but the world is a better place with Falwell gone. The only regrettable thing is he didn't croak 30 years ago, and that his ignorant, beady-eyed, small-minded followers can't just die off en masse.
Dupek, as usual you see hypocrisy everywhere but in yourself. Nobody is questioning Falwell's right to free speech; and another part of free speech is being glad someone is dead. It's not like anyone killed him.
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Why do you preface your statement with "Sorry". Are you really sorry?
Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
Sorry, but the world is a better place with Falwell gone. The only regrettable thing is he didn't croak 30 years ago, and that his ignorant, beady-eyed, small-minded followers can't just die off en masse.
Dupek, as usual you see hypocrisy everywhere but in yourself. Nobody is questioning Falwell's right to free speech; and another part of free speech is being glad someone is dead. It's not like anyone killed him.
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Very true. But isn't there any merit in being a bigger person? I think that's my main problem with politics in general. One side insults the other, the other does it back claiming the first side is stopping to mudslinging. And repeat.
Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
Nobody is questioning Falwell's right to free speech; and another part of free speech is being glad someone is dead.
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You've been reading Obama's book?
Originally posted by nkotb:
Very true. But isn't there any merit in being a bigger person? I think that's my main problem with politics in general. One side insults the other, the other does it back claiming the first side is stopping to mudslinging. And repeat.
Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
Nobody is questioning Falwell's right to free speech; and another part of free speech is being glad someone is dead.
[/b]
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
One could easily make the same statements regarding Al Sharpton.
[/QB][/QUOTE]
One could, if one was so inclined; if you made such a statement, I would assume your motive racist given previous posts on other matters involving race. Personally I dislike Sharpton very much, for non-racist reasons, but I think Falwell was far more harmful. Sharpton has always been something of a spectacle, respected by few except his own rabid followers, whereas Falwell had real access to the corridors of power. So if Sharpton croaks, I won't miss him, but I also won't break out the champagne as I intend to do for Falwell.
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Nope. Worth reading?
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
You've been reading Obama's book?
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Originally posted by nkotb:
He was a pretty hateful man.
Exactly. And after being the target of a lot of that hate for quite a few years, I'm not terribly concerned about being seen as tacky or inappropriate. Compared to his words and actions, a few disrespectful comments on a nightclub chat room is nothing.
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Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
The only regrettable thing is he didn't croak 30 years ago, and that his ignorant, beady-eyed, small-minded followers can't just die off en masse.
Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
But anyone who thinks they can categorize and condemn a billion people they've never met is a bigot -- nothing tired-old-PC about that. It's what you are.
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An interesting read thus far, though I'm no expert on what shapes and makes a good book on politics. The thought you expressed seemed reminiscent of the some of the points he's trying to make in the book.
Originally posted by nkotb:
Nope. Worth reading?
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
You've been reading Obama's book?
[/b]
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yeah, but I'm not talking about a billion people, nor even about people of a specific faith. I am talking about people who chose to follow a hateful man. I'd say the same thing about Klansmen, and that wouldn't be bigotry either.
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
The only regrettable thing is he didn't croak 30 years ago, and that his ignorant, beady-eyed, small-minded followers can't just die off en masse.
Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
But anyone who thinks they can categorize and condemn a billion people they've never met is a bigot -- nothing tired-old-PC about that. It's what you are.
[/b]
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(deleted - miunderstood someone's comment. apologies)
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Falwell ceased being an important voice for mainstream Christians long ago.
From salon.com:
Conservative Christianity has been trying to recover from Falwell for the past two decades. Just as his political views were too buffoonish to make the Moral Majority a reality, his religious sensibilities were too shallow to spread evangelical Protestantism. Evangelicalism grew in the exurban megachurches, and the megachurches, implicitly and occasionally explicitly, rejected Falwell's approach to the faith. Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, Bill Hybels -- these inclusive preachers inherited the mantle of Billy Graham, not Falwell and his great rival Pat Robertson. With the maturation of American evangelicalism has come an interest in social justice, environmentalism and peace. The people who represent evangelical Protestantism's future want little or nothing to do with injustice, pollution and war.
Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
yeah, but I'm not talking about a billion people, nor even about people of a specific faith. I am talking about people who chose to follow a hateful man. I'd say the same thing about Klansmen, and that wouldn't be bigotry either.
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
The only regrettable thing is he didn't croak 30 years ago, and that his ignorant, beady-eyed, small-minded followers can't just die off en masse.
Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
But anyone who thinks they can categorize and condemn a billion people they've never met is a bigot -- nothing tired-old-PC about that. It's what you are.
[/b]
[/b]
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(this is a sign for me to get off this board today... instead of deleting my previous post, i created a new one. have a nice day y'all :) )
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
I'm not going to get into a debate over the existence of a God, but you seem quite disrespectful to the vast majority of people in the world who choose to believe in his/her existence.
Of course science can't prove the existence of God, that's why they call it FAITH.
Not sure if you were referring to me or not, but I'll answer anyway. I grant you that I may have been borderline desrespectful, and to some extent I regret that those I refer to shouldn't be mocked merely for their beliefs. However inartfully I may be, the ire of my rage are those that have pounced on what I feel are defenseless individuals to exploit either their ignorance, lack of resources, or mental disabilities to convince them that "faith" is more important than reality. For those that have come to this conclusion themselves, without duress, and after thoughtful consideration of the alternatives I have no problem with, again as long as they don't try to recruit others. I acknowledge a little hyperbole for effect, but my real concern is that there is so much misery based on the word of whatever prophet, god, or other diety that it is what pushes my button the most. I apologize to anyone offended, this dialogue should be better than that, but it should be noted that I didn't single anyone or any religion out, I think it's all an irrationale scourge. And for a true believer, I would think they would understand my reluctance to believe because they had to find their faith rather than have it given to them. Basically where's the intellectual honesty?
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Al Sharpton is more of a racist than I'll ever be.
Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
One could easily make the same statements regarding Al Sharpton.
[/b]
One could, if one was so inclined; if you made such a statement, I would assume your motive racist given previous posts on other matters involving race. Personally I dislike Sharpton very much, for non-racist reasons, but I think Falwell was far more harmful. Sharpton has always been something of a spectacle, respected by few except his own rabid followers, whereas Falwell had real access to the corridors of power. So if Sharpton croaks, I won't miss him, but I also won't break out the champagne as I intend to do for Falwell. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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You'll find no argument from me there.
Anyway, this all distracts from the point of this thread, which is that Falwell has joined Mohammed Atta and the other 19 9-11 hijackers to spend an eternity in screaming pain in the burning sulfur pits of Hell.
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Al Sharpton is more of a racist than I'll ever be.
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Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
You'll find no argument from me there.
Anyway, this all distracts from the point of this thread, which is that Falwell has joined Mohammed Atta and the other 19 9-11 hijackers to spend an eternity in screaming pain in the burning sulfur pits of Hell.
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Al Sharpton is more of a racist than I'll ever be.
[/b]
If only there was a hell, no he'll just provide some wonderful composte. Hopefully some beautiful flowers will sprout out of the grave site so that he wouldn't have died in vain.
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True dat -- when Rhett questions why he should care about the death of a dope fiend musician, everyone gets up in his business. Yet, when someone they don't like/agree with/respect dies, then hey! -- it's "pop open a bottle of champagne" time!
Originally posted by nkotb:
But isn't there any merit in being a bigger person? I think that's my main problem with politics in general. One side insults the other, the other does it back claiming the first side is stopping to mudslinging. And repeat.
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
True dat -- when Rhett questions why he should care about the death of a dope fiend musician, everyone gets up in his business. Yet, when someone they don't like/agree with/respect dies, then hey! -- it's "pop open a bottle of champagne" time!
Well, this *is* a music board, last I checked. So if a musician dies, people are likely gonna care.
If you object to this, I'm sure Liberty Baptist University has a forum where Falwell will be treated with respect, and "dope fiend musicians" will not.
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Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
If you object to this, I'm sure Liberty Baptist University has a forum where Falwell will be treated with respect, and "dope fiend musicians" will not.
Not surprisingly, you totally missed the point.
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I don't know about the rest of you, but I really didn't wish any ill onto Falwell. I thought there was more value and worth in a stepped-in turd than in him (or his so-called "faith"), but where he is now doesn't matter to me. What matters is that his hateful intolerance and ignorance is silenced, and maybe that is at the core of some people's joy. Hell, I wasn't sad when the Pope died, even though many could argue that he touched many people in a positive way. At the end of the day, we're all gonna high tail it on the big train to the sky, and maybe someone will be happy when I leave this planet. And at that point, will it matter?
When a musician dies, their gift of talent goes with them...but with Falwell, his voice is gone and that is kind of a relief. Now some of us can go back to screwing Tinky Winky and hanging out with our feminist bitches while we live a life of moral decay and debauchery. At least I'm happy and I can look in the mirror every morning and not hate what I see. Anyone as hateful as Falwell probably can't say the same.
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<img src="http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41P369X2AZL._SS500_.jpg" alt=" - " /> (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0307265773/ref=wl_it_dp/104-2335032-1045547?ie=UTF8&coliid=IXGVPFUIYLZPB&colid=3MHIMM54MU6KQ)
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Still, it's a bit tacky to mock someone the day they die, don't you think? Not that I'm a fan.
But what if I thought the Clash sucked, and I came on here mocking Joe Strummer the day he died. Would there be nothing wrong with that?
There would be something wrong that for the undeniable fact that The Clash fuckin' RAWKED. Regardless of how you may feel about them on a personal level, the Clash were great. Don't gotta like 'em, but if you REALLY fuck with music you MUST at the least respect them/their catalog.
On some real shit though, I believe Joe Strummer moved more people on a personal level than Falwell ever did. You're talking about a pompous hatemonger (This is coming from someone that's actually a "Christian.") who moved a couple hundred thousand people (and THAT may be a push) versus someone who touched millions. The fact that a lead singer of a band is more revered than a so-called man of God should be some foretelling shit. Real talk.
Now, with that all said, do I take joy in this man's Falwell's death???? Nah, I don't. That's some wrong shit. Somebody lost a husband, a father, etc. So my heart goes out to his family. But there's one question that needs to be answered here.
Will I, TheDirector217, carrier of the large, ahem, organ, miss Jerry Falwell???
I answer that with a resounding FUCK NO.
True story. Good day . . . . . :D
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Originally posted by TheDirector217:
On some real shit though, I believe Joe Strummer moved more people on a personal level than Falwell ever did. You're talking about a pompous hatemonger (This is coming from someone that's actually a "Christian.") who moved a couple hundred thousand people (and THAT may be a push) versus someone who touched millions. The fact that a lead singer of a band is more revered than a so-called man of God should be some foretelling shit. Real talk.
You're kidding, right?
Falwell had his own TV show (or was it a network?) He had contact on a daily basis with millions of people. He and his people managed to become a viable force in pressuring the US government to take them seriously. At one time he had millions of religious followers that hung on his every word.
Joe Strummer was the leader of a rock band that, frankly, didn't really sell all that many records. Yeah, he's an icon, but he had nowhere near the devoted following of Falwell.
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What's wrong with being disrespectful towards people of faith? Believing in ancient religious dogma above all else is ignorant and dangerous... I don't see what is respectable about that...
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
I'm not going to get into a debate over the existence of a God, but you seem quite disrespectful to the vast majority of people in the world who choose to believe in his/her existence.
Of course science can't prove the existence of God, that's why they call it FAITH.
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Aside from Reagan, Falwell was the best thing punk music ever had. For that I eulogize him.
I really didn't like him much either. I get my rocks off arguing with hypocritical trustfund poseurs. Them leather trousers and spiked blue mohawks ain't cheap, you know.
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What's wrong with being disrespectful towards people of faith? Believing in ancient religious dogma above all else is ignorant and dangerous... I don't see what is respectable about that...
quite an ignorant post
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Christ, we're a bunch of people that can't resist tearing into one another for musical tastes! Why is it so surprising we wouldn't be tolerant of each other's beliefs?!?
Originally posted by manimtired:
What's wrong with being disrespectful towards people of faith? Believing in ancient religious dogma above all else is ignorant and dangerous... I don't see what is respectable about that...
quite an ignorant post [/b]
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Originally posted by nkotb:
Christ, we're a bunch of people
Please don't use our saviour's name in vain.
<img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/team_dupek/strongjesus.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Originally posted by manimtired:
What's wrong with being disrespectful towards people of faith? Believing in ancient religious dogma above all else is ignorant and dangerous... I don't see what is respectable about that...
quite an ignorant post [/b]
Why?
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why?
just a major generalization...
ya know..all gays are sex addicts...keep them away!!! why should i show them respect?
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Originally posted by cale:
Originally posted by manimtired:
What's wrong with being disrespectful towards people of faith? Believing in ancient religious dogma above all else is ignorant and dangerous... I don't see what is respectable about that...
quite an ignorant post [/b]
Why? [/b]
Because faith and religion are distinct things.
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A slideshow of gays partying on Falwells grave:
http://www.nbc6.net/slideshow/news/13327704/detail.html[/url (http://www.nbc6.net/slideshow/news/13327704/detail.html[/url)
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Well, I can try to back up my generalization with some rational arguments... at least I think I can... which someone who says gays are sex addicts probably can't (although is being a sex addict necessarily a bad thing?) anyway - people who adhere to ancient religious dogma are dangerous even if they aren't fundamentalists because they raise their offspring to believe these texts are true, and both the Bible and Koran have plenty of nasty parts, and no real way to determine which are the parts to ignore and which are the parts to follow. Generalizing them as ignorant is based on the fact that I think it is plainly obvious that the Bible was written by plain old humans, and not even divinely *inspired*, due to the many contradictions, bad math and science, lack of anything that couldn't be imagined during the time and place it was written, failed prophecies, etc. so believing they are the word of God is ignorant and ignorance doesnâ??t need to be respected, im my own humble opinion.
Originally posted by manimtired:
why?
just a major generalization...
ya know..all gays are sex addicts...keep them away!!! why should i show them respect?
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by cale:
Originally posted by manimtired:
What's wrong with being disrespectful towards people of faith? Believing in ancient religious dogma above all else is ignorant and dangerous... I don't see what is respectable about that...
quite an ignorant post [/b]
Why? [/b]
Because faith and religion are distinct things. [/b]
Not following... I mean, I understand they are different things, but I think in the context of this discussion we're talking about people of faith being people that believe the religious texts of Christianity to be true in some fasion... so why would that make my post ignorant?
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yes
Originally posted by cale:
[QB](although is being a sex addict necessarily a bad thing?) QUOTE]
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Originally posted by Psychoda alternata:
A slideshow of gays partying on Falwells grave:
http://www.nbc6.net/slideshow/news/13327704/detail.html (http://www.nbc6.net/slideshow/news/13327704/detail.html)
i'm shocked. i mean, falwell spent his life reaching out to gays, supporting them, understanding them, and generally respecting them. it's not as if he blamed the 9/11 attacks on homosexuals or anything. frankly, these people have NO reason to mistreat this man's memory.
shocked, i tell you. next thing you know, new yorkers will be dancing on bin laden's mock-grave when he's confirmed dead!
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Couldn't stay away, could you?
:D
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Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
If you object to this, I'm sure Liberty Baptist University has a forum where Falwell will be treated with respect, and "dope fiend musicians" will not.
Not surprisingly, you totally missed the point. [/b]
actually, *you* missed the point... not surprisingly.
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
Couldn't stay away, could you?
:D
guilty, again... seriously, i tried.
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While you may have a point, that kind of behavior isn't going to win over anybody in terms of acceptance of their cause.
Originally posted by sweetcell:
Originally posted by Psychoda alternata:
A slideshow of gays partying on Falwells grave:
http://www.nbc6.net/slideshow/news/13327704/detail.html (http://www.nbc6.net/slideshow/news/13327704/detail.html)
i'm shocked. i mean, falwell spent his life reaching out to gays, supporting them, understanding them, and generally respecting them. it's not as if he blamed the 9/11 attacks on homosexuals or anything. frankly, these people have NO reason to mistreat this man's memory.
shocked, i tell you. next thing you know, new yorkers will be dancing on bin laden's mock-grave when he's confirmed dead! [/b]
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Brilliant comeback. I guess I better be on guard now, in you case you bust out the "rubber and glue" gambit.
Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
Originally posted by They call me Doctor Doom.:
If you object to this, I'm sure Liberty Baptist University has a forum where Falwell will be treated with respect, and "dope fiend musicians" will not.
Not surprisingly, you totally missed the point. [/b]
actually, *you* missed the point... not surprisingly. [/b]
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I think you can find the difference between a good man of faith versus a total asshole in the moment the asshole wants you to convert to his religion. Why they feel the need to evangelize and try to save your ass from their vision of hell or Limbo or whatever?
Now, for cultural reasons, I dont know this guy Falwell, but he seems to have been pretty controversial, so I guess he was an asshole, am I right?
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I think the Bible says you should go out and bear witness and spread the faith. I don't think it's about saving you from hell, it's about spreading God's word.
Are you saying that anyone who goes out and tries to get people to see the world through the same lens as them is an asshole? That makes an asshole out of tens of thousands of activists for a myriad of different causes and beliefs.
Originally posted by lacroix:
I think you can find the difference between a good man of faith versus a total asshole in the moment the asshole wants you to convert to his religion. Why they feel the need to evangelize and try to save your ass from their vision of hell or Limbo or whatever?
Now, for cultural reasons, I dont know this guy Falwell, but he seems to have been pretty controversial, so I guess he was an asshole, am I right?
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I think the Bible says you should go out and bear witness and spread the faith. I don't think it's about saving you from hell, it's about spreading God's word.
I think the bible is between 4000 to 2000 years old, I think the world has changed a lot since then...or maybe not....
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At what point do you disregard writings because of their age? The Constitution and Declaration of Independence are 230 years old.
Originally posted by lacroix:
I think the Bible says you should go out and bear witness and spread the faith. I don't think it's about saving you from hell, it's about spreading God's word.
I think the bible is between 4000 to 2000 years old, I think the world has changed a lot since then...or maybe not.... [/b]
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At what point do you disregard writings because of their age? The Constitution and Declaration of Independence are 230 years old.
Im not saying that, if we talk about wisdom in ancient writings, Im sure we can find better ones that the bible (or the declaration of independence for that matter) in a couple of oriental little books that are least 5000 years old...
What Im saying is that you can find your own way to fulfill your spiritual needs (sorry for bringing the "s" word, but ultimately when we talk about faith, we are talking about spirituality), but if you find that in the bible (or the talmud, or the coran, or with Aliester Crowley), that doesnt mean that you need to tell your neighbor or whoever that this is the way, the only way, to get to God...someone said that human spirituality is a big ocean, and you can get there through different beaches...you dont need to spread the "word", let it by itself to find the people who are looking for it...
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I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just answering the question as to why some people choose to spread their beliefs to others. And I don't think that necessarily makes them an asshole.
Besides, when was the last time that one of these "assholes" tried to convert you to his/her religion? I can only think of once that it's happened to me in the last 20 years.
Originally posted by lacroix:
At what point do you disregard writings because of their age? The Constitution and Declaration of Independence are 230 years old.
Im not saying that, if we talk about wisdom in ancient writings, Im sure we can find better ones that the bible (or the declaration of independence for that matter) in a couple of oriental little books that are least 5000 years old...
What Im saying is that you can find your own way to fulfill your spiritual needs (sorry for bringing the "s" word, but ultimately when we talk about faith, we are talking about spirituality), but if you find that in the bible (or the talmud, or the coran, or with Aliester Crowley), that doesnt mean that you need to tell your neighbor or whoever that this is the way, the only way, to get to God...someone said that human spirituality is a big ocean, and you can get there through different beaches...you dont need to spread the "word", let it by itself to find the people who are looking for it... [/b]
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I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just answering the question as to why some people choose to spread their beliefs to others. And I don't think that necessarily makes them an asshole.
True that, perhaps my comment was too strong, didnt want to hurt anybodies feelings, but I dont like people to tell me how to get to God, to their God...I think everyone can find out by themselves, and if not, then they go to a church or something...
Now , again, I dont know this guy Falwell, and I dont know if he tried to impose his beliefs to other people for reasons beyond faith...
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
While you may have a point, that kind of behavior isn't going to win over anybody in terms of acceptance of their cause.
agreed, but let's remember that these are a few people (not thousands) so it can't be taken as indicative. the media loves this kinda stuff, so it's actual social relevance can't be judged by this one photo spread. while i can't blame people for that kind of reaction, one could hope that they'd take the high road.
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
At what point do you disregard writings because of their age? The Constitution and Declaration of Independence are 230 years old.
one advantage that the constitution and the declaration have over major religious texts: they've been re-interpreted, on an on-going basis, through the courts. religious texts on the other hand are to be taken as dogma. one of my biggest issues with fundies is that they want their texts to be taken literally without re-thinking them, asking themselves how the times affected the original writing, etc.
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What about the Greenpeace activists on the Mall who are trying to spread their message? Shouldn't they just sit at home and hope that everyone finds out the message on their own?
Originally posted by lacroix:
I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just answering the question as to why some people choose to spread their beliefs to others. And I don't think that necessarily makes them an asshole.
True that, perhaps my comment was too strong, didnt want to hurt anybodies feelings, but I dont like people to tell me how to get to God, to their God...I think everyone can find out by themselves, and if not, then they go to a church or something...
Now , again, I dont know this guy Falwell, and I dont know if he tried to impose his beliefs to other people for reasons beyond faith... [/b]
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But various religions and individuals DO interpret and reinterpret the Bible in differing ways.
Originally posted by sweetcell:
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
While you may have a point, that kind of behavior isn't going to win over anybody in terms of acceptance of their cause.
agreed, but let's remember that these are a few people (not thousands) so it can't be taken as indicative. the media loves this kinda stuff, so it's actual social relevance can't be judged by this one photo spread. while i can't blame people for that kind of reaction, one could hope that they'd take the high road.
Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
At what point do you disregard writings because of their age? The Constitution and Declaration of Independence are 230 years old.
one advantage that the constitution and the declaration have over major religious texts: they've been re-interpreted, on an on-going basis, through the courts. religious texts on the other hand are to be taken as dogma. one of my biggest issues with fundies is that they want their texts to be taken literally without re-thinking them, asking themselves how the times affected the original writing, etc. [/b]
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Originally posted by cale:
I think it is plainly obvious that the Bible was written by plain old humans, and not even divinely *inspired*
Did you just figure that one out all on your own?
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What about the Greenpeace activists on the Mall who are trying to spread their message? Shouldn't they just sit at home and hope that everyone finds out the message on their own?
I believe, and I can be wrong, that those Greenpeace guys are talking about deforestation, endanger species and other kinds of problems...now thats a reality as far as I know, but people who start saying that you should follow them because of what a book says â??and if not you are going to burn in hell, or worse, that you have to give them money so they can take the "word" fartherâ??... well, you can choose. Maybe they are right, who knows, but I really doubt it.
Now, I see the point of your question, but in all truth I dont see a lot of similarity in the message between a Greenpeace guy and a evangelical, even when the way how they reach people could be similar...
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Of course I wasn't comparing their messages, only that they certainly both have the right to actively spread it.
Originally posted by lacroix:
What about the Greenpeace activists on the Mall who are trying to spread their message? Shouldn't they just sit at home and hope that everyone finds out the message on their own?
I believe, and I can be wrong, that those Greenpeace guys are talking about deforestation, endanger species and other kinds of problems...now thats a reality as far as I know, but people who start saying that you should follow them because of what a book says â??and if not you are going to burn in hell, or worse, that you have to give them money so they can take the "word" fartherâ??... well, you can choose. Maybe they are right, who knows, but I really doubt it.
Now, I see the point of your question, but in all truth I dont see a lot of similarity in the message between a Greenpeace guy and a evangelical, even when the way how they reach people could be similar... [/b]
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Of course I wasn't comparing their messages, only that they certainly both have the right to actively spread it.
Oh, they have the right to spread their word, but what happens when they take the "word" to your lawmaker, and they eventually complain about abortion, that its evil, and its evil because God say so.
Then they are messing with your liberties, with your rights...and we dont want that, do we?
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Originally posted by lacroix:
Of course I wasn't comparing their messages, only that they certainly both have the right to actively spread it.
Oh, they have the right to spread their word, but what happens when they take the "word" to your lawmaker, and they eventually complain about abortion, that its evil, and its evil because God say so.
Then they are messing with your liberties, with your rights...and we dont want that, do we? [/b]
but that's your perception. from a evangelical viewpoint, they are protecting the life of an unborn person, and abortion is murdering that person. if murder is illegal, why should abortion (murder) be legal? NOTE- i am not saying i believe this, i am simply providing commentary and a possible response from an evangelical. . .my point is, this is all about perspective. just because i may disagree with you, does not mean i'm wrong or evil or ignorant, it just means we disagree, and i would hope that any discussion is not based on a "you're a republican (or a christian or you watch fox news or whatever) and your automatically wrong" position.
greenpeace would be more than happy to take away just as many liberties, but since they are dealing with reality (a claim i would find questionable), does that mean their concerns are ok? i have the right to purchase any car i damn well please (provided i have the money and so forth), but greenpeace would be more than happy to take away my ability(right??) to choose which car i want to drive. we may be more than willing to let greenpeace have their way on these issues, because of the issues, but it still is something being taken away from us.
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Originally posted by Psychoda alternata:
Originally posted by cale:
I think it is plainly obvious that the Bible was written by plain old humans, and not even divinely *inspired*
Did you just figure that one out all on your own? [/b]
Um, if you put that in context of the conversation you took it from you would have seen that I was stating the obvious to clarify something I assumed was already understood, so your attempt at ridicule is actually supporting my point. Thanx!
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Are you for real. Responding to any of your poasts seems to be some sort of Turing test. I'm becomming more & more convinced that you aren't real at all. Your poasts seem to be generated by a not too clever program.
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Christopher Hitchens absolutely owning Hannity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzMPdG3ucWI)
he's a douche, but this was fun to watch
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wow, from Fox News... again, i'm shocked (that they actually aired this :) ).
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Originally posted by Hoya Paranoia:
Christopher Hitchens absolutely owning Hannity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzMPdG3ucWI)
he's a douche, but this was fun to watch
Do I sound like Hitchens? If so I need some help, he's a dickhead but seeing anyone unveil the bigger dickhead of Hannity is a "godsend!"
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Originally posted by bnyced0:
Do I sound like Hitchens? If so I need some help, he's a dickhead but seeing anyone unveil the bigger dickhead of Hannity is a "godsend!"
is he a dickhead because he's an atheist or because he's a neocon?
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Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
Originally posted by bnyced0:
Do I sound like Hitchens? If so I need some help, he's a dickhead but seeing anyone unveil the bigger dickhead of Hannity is a "godsend!"
is he a dickhead because he's an atheist or because he's a neocon? [/b]
Neocon.
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Why are you trying to be so mean to me?
Originally posted by Psychoda alternata:
Are you for real. Responding to any of your poasts seems to be some sort of Turing test. I'm becomming more & more convinced that you aren't real at all. Your poasts seem to be generated by a not too clever program.
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<img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/team_dupek/e8f73d04.jpg" alt=" - " />
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In searching for some response to this I came across the Rainbow Raider:
http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/rainbow.html (http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/rainbow.html)